Hague appeals chamber acquits Orić

The word travesty is too mild a description.

I'm no hater but this is an absolute disgrace. Seeing as its going in this direction already perhaps the Hague should officially apologise to Oric and pay him a few million Euro in compensation. Into the bargain they might probably recommend him for the nobel peace prize.

What on earth is the use of the Hague if it slaps victims in the face like this?

Naser Oric is a crimianl not because he is a Bosnian, but because of his actions in the war. Read the book "Planned Chaos," written by Ibran Mustafic a democrate in the Bosnian Parliment during the war. Naser Oric admitted to murdering the judge of Srebranica Slobodan Ilic by sitting on his chest and driving a knife thru his eyes. The Hague is a kangaroo court in which not to many in the world pay any attention too. Anyway read the book. Have a great day. Happy fourth of July!

Python, bganon and Daniel wrote it all. CLOSE THIS KANGAROO COURT IMMEDIATELY. It has once again shown itself to be biased and has no credibility whatsoever. It is a disgrace and a complete waste of time and taxpayers money. As long as EU, US and NATO war criminals will not be sent there and sentensed it is nothing more than a political instrument to keep demonizing Serbs and to wash away the blood from the hands of Western politicians and military leaders. Shame on you all for your crimes and hypocracy.

Serbs know that he's guilty and that's what's most important. It doesn't matter what any court in the world says, one day he'll be sentenced appropriately.
Serbs also know that Americans are desperately trying to provoke them into another war since time is running out for US but it won't happen, time is on Serbia's side and they'll just sit and wait for the right moment. I guess they won't have to wait long judging by the level of American desperation.

The Hague Tribunal is not a court of law, it is merely a tool of American foreign policy. Their game is not justice, but merely to humiliate the Serbs to tell them who's the boss.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Bosnian Serb government weren't forced to pay Oric compensation for all the stress the poor fellow has suffered.

If their were patriotic governments in Belgrade or Banja Luka, then they would deal with Oric as the Israelis deal with those who murder Jews.

This is just more proof that the Hague is a complete farce and should not be recognized by any Serb. No Serbs should be sent to this abomination of justice, none, zero, zilch.
Nasir Oric has even admitted to western reporters, and even showed them videos of severed heads of Serbs while laughing, and he is still walking free. It is truly sickening that we have people in the Serbian government who send Serbs to the Hague. Is it not plain to everyone with half a brain that the Hague is a propoganda tool for the US and their colonialist friends?? And, bganon, for once I agree with your posting.

It's hard to believe this animal got off free. After his horrible and well established crimes against Serb civilians he still gets off free? If nothing else, this clearly shows that the approach of this so called court was there only to prosecute Serbs. I hope Serbia never cooperates with the Hague tribunal. Obviously this court and its sponsors believe all Serbs are criminals, whether they bake bread or were involved in the military. In my history on this planet and from my reading of many history texts, there has never ever been such treatment against a people as there has been against the Serbs. It's unbelievable. Wow.

I think Tadic should give himself a high five. Way to go Tadic!!! Just keep on sending Serbs to the hague (court invented by americans to prosecute all serbs, so they can hide THEIR crimes yet again).

“without establishing beforehand who had committed the crimes, whether they had been the defendant's subordinates, or whether Orić had even known about the crimes in question.“

I read the original ruling.

Who committed the crimes?

“On 21 June 1992, Ratkovici, Gornji Ratkovici and Ducici were attacked by Bosnian Muslim fighters from two nearby villages and followed by a crowd of Bosnian Muslim civilians”

“On 27 June 1992, Bradjevina was attacked by Bosnian Muslim fighters. Only some of the attackers were identified as locals from the surrounding Bosnian Muslim villages, and they were followed by a crowd of Bosnian Muslim civilians.”

“On 8 August 1992, Jezestica was attacked by Bosnian Muslim fighters from Šusnjari, Jaglici and Glogova, as well as by Bosnian Muslim fighters of the 16th Muslim Brigade from Tuzla. The fighters were followed by a crowd of Bosnian Muslim civilians.”

“On 5 October 1992, Fakovici and Divovici were attacked by Bosnian Muslim fighters from Osmace, Suceska, Kragljivoda, Zanjevo, Jagodnja, Joseva and Tokoljaki, who were followed by thousands of Bosnian Muslim civilians. The Accused participated in the attack.”

“Between 14 and 19 December 1992, Bjelovac and Sikiric were attacked by Bosnian Muslim fighters from Voljevica, Biljaca, Potocari, Kazani, Luljaska, Suceska, Pale, Likari and Srebrenica Stari Grad, who were followed by thousands of Bosnian Muslim civilians. The Accused participated in the attack.”

“On 7 and 8 January 1993, Kravica, Siljkovici and Jezestica were attacked by Bosnian Muslim fighters from Suceska, Glogova, Biljeg, Mosici, Delici, Cerska, Skugrici, Jaglici, Susnjari, Brezova Njiva, Osmace, Konjevic Polje, Jagodnja, and Joseva. Also the Accused and members of his group of fighters participated in the attack. The fighters were followed by thousands of Bosnian Muslim civilians.”

“The picture that emerges from the evidence is not one of an organised army with a fully functioning command structure, but one of local groups remaining relatively independent and voluntary and a mass of uncontrollable civilians that were present at every attack… wanton destruction by civilians that were present before, during and after attacks in massive numbers”

Was he aware?

“The Trial Chamber has no doubt that the Accused was generally aware that Bosnian Serb property was destroyed by Bosnian Muslims, primarily civilians, who followed the fighters during attacks”

Oric was present during many of these attacks, how could he NOT be aware? This ruling flies in the face of the established facts.

Naser Oric's trial was a purposeful farce. The Hague tried him for others' crimes in Srebrenica (for example prison guards who beat Serbs to a pulp) but avoided Naser Oric's own murdering and destruction of villages. So they got him light on saying he was somewhat responsible for a few select crimes of others.

A Bosnian Muslim who lived there during the war was witness to Naser Oric bragging about and detailing one of the first murders which happened during the war - the gory murder of Slobodan Ilic by bayoneting him in the eyes!:

http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog/2008/05/new_evidence_against_oric.html

Probably the most shocking chapter of the book is the one with Naser Oric's personal admission of the first Serb he killed by his own hands, murder of the Srebrenica Judge Slobodan Ilic.

"When we took that group captured in Zalazje from [Srebrenica] prison to take them back toward Zalazje, and when the slaying begun, Slobodan Ilic came into my hands. I climbed on his chest. He was bearded and hairy like an animal. He looked at me without saying a word. I took out the bayonet and jabbed it straight into one eye, and then turned it back and forth. He didn't let the single sound out. Then I hit him with the knife in the other eye... I couldn't believe he's not reacting. Frankly, that's when I got scared for the first time, so I cut his throat right after that", Oric described his 'feat' to Mustafic word-for-word during one evening Mustafic visited him.

Hello bganon,

You askegacd me a little while ago whether I though Mladic should be caught and delivered to ICTY. I gave a rather convoluted answer which I was disappointed didn't receive a response from you. I suspect I know why, you must be close to agreeing with me.

Once again we have another example of how ICTY has failed to deliver on alleged purpose and aim: to deliver justice to victims and to encourage a mutual rebuilding of trust and understanding amongst the various groups.

But what do we see again and again: ICTY's methods and decisions causing the complete opposite. The judge said (according to B92), "there was no doubt grave crimes had been committed against Serbs in the Srebrenica area between September 1992 and March 1993". The defendent on leaving court said (according to B92), "he was "happy", and that the verdict confirmed that no crimes had been committed by Muslim forces in the Srebrenica area."

The Muslim community has it reified in their psyche that they did nothing wrong; they committed no crime. The Serb victims have it confirmed - in their psyche - that ICTY is biased.

The judges decision may well be correct according to law. However, this is a failure of ICTY at the strategic level to prosecute the 'right' people for the 'right' crimes with the 'right' evidence.

Another murderer walks free because of the incompetence of the ICTY prosecution system and the manner in which the entire institution is run.

bganon, does your organization say its a good idea to pretend to care about the fate of serbs as well as bombard news with comments promoting people who are breaking up serbia and trying to destroy serbia? its in bad taste. you should stick to one theme at a time. first lets destroy serbia. then we'll cry crocodile tears because of serbs.
travesty is the madness the amok that tadic is today running accomodating every sps desire just so that he has a mate to sell kosovo with. that travesty will hurt more serbs more badly than this miserable criminal acquitted today ever could.

The word Balkan should be a synonym for the word Naive.

The responses that will come for this article will either be slanted towards serb bleeding-hearts who say the world is out to get the serbian people, or it will be slanted towards people who hate serbs..and that's unfortunate.

All i ask is that you all have a look at both side of the fences when forming your often speak-first-think-later opinions.

this shows that the hague is 1 sided so no serbs to the hague end of story.

I guess you have to be a Serb to be convicted at this Micky Mouse court.

What on earth is the use of the Hague if it slaps victims in the face like this?
(bganon, 3 July 2008 12:24)
--
You mean you haven't realised yet that this NATO court is designed to put the Serbian big fish behind bars or kill them while only convicting low-level Muslims and Croats to show some false sense of even handedness?

Do you think that Croat general (what's his name?) will be convicted? After the US were partners in crime with him? He will be found not guilty also.

But you bganon still support sending Serbians to their death?

May I suggest a change in the title of this piece from:

"Hague appeals chamber acquits Orić"

to

"Hague appeals chamber calls ICTY prosecutors willfully incompetent"?

LOL! The same old dirty tricks being played at the ICTY. Now that the ICTY is being wound down, the original prosecutors can complain that their 'investigation' suffered from a lack of funds.

May Oric never die of old age.

ZK if you are asking me about Gotovina, what with the spectacular failures of the Hague prosecution of late I think you are right to think he will probably get off with a slap on the wrist and nothing more. His co-defendents however, will probably go down for 8-10 years or so.

Yes, I support Mladic and company being tried, although I have deep reservations about the Hague giving them a fair trial. Previously I wondered whether Serbian courts could deliver a fairer verdict than the Hague. But after recent trials, not any more. My advice to Tadic would be to use maximum pressure on EU countries to try remaining suspects in Serbia. The right moment to bring this to a climax will be when the Haradinaj appeal fails. In return Tadic guarantees arresting remaining Hague suspects and to try them in Serbia. Further compromises could be offered.

ZK you see for me its not enough to complain about a situation, you have to offer a solution as well. Fantastic we don't want to send suspects to the Hague, but what DO we do instead?

Willie, you didn't write anything I disagreed with!

Smile, what organisation is that? I don't work for an organisation although I was once a member (not employee) of Amnesty International.

Remind me smiley about what you said regarding SPS before the election? No wonder you have only slip in and out of here these days :)

Seeing as you supported the supposed arch traitor Zoran Djindjic I do find it amusing that you consider Tadic, who is more moderate, the destroyer of Serbia!

Well, if there is no clear proofs that Naser Oric commited war crimes, it’s normal that he would set free.

Sadly, we cannot say the same stuff about Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic, qho always ackowledged the massacre and expulsions of Bosnians from their lands as a kind of “sacred duty”…

What is there more to say? If Oric has been found inocent of war crimes, the logical conclusion is that whatever was done against the Serbs, it ain't war crime. The term 'War Crime' is reserved only for the Serbs. Period. Now let Tadic and Co comment on the situation they have dragged the Serbs in.
As real Europeans, are they proud of their cooperation with the Hague?

Serbs know that he's guilty and that's what's most important. It doesn't matter what any court in the world says, one day he'll be sentenced appropriately.
Serbs also know that Americans are desperately trying to provoke them into another war since time is running out for US but it won't happen, time is on Serbia's side and they'll just sit and wait for the right moment. I guess they won't have to wait long judging by the level of American desperation.

It's hard to believe this animal got off free. After his horrible and well established crimes against Serb civilians he still gets off free? If nothing else, this clearly shows that the approach of this so called court was there only to prosecute Serbs. I hope Serbia never cooperates with the Hague tribunal. Obviously this court and its sponsors believe all Serbs are criminals, whether they bake bread or were involved in the military. In my history on this planet and from my reading of many history texts, there has never ever been such treatment against a people as there has been against the Serbs. It's unbelievable. Wow.

The word Balkan should be a synonym for the word Naive.

The responses that will come for this article will either be slanted towards serb bleeding-hearts who say the world is out to get the serbian people, or it will be slanted towards people who hate serbs..and that's unfortunate.

All i ask is that you all have a look at both side of the fences when forming your often speak-first-think-later opinions.

Python, bganon and Daniel wrote it all. CLOSE THIS KANGAROO COURT IMMEDIATELY. It has once again shown itself to be biased and has no credibility whatsoever. It is a disgrace and a complete waste of time and taxpayers money. As long as EU, US and NATO war criminals will not be sent there and sentensed it is nothing more than a political instrument to keep demonizing Serbs and to wash away the blood from the hands of Western politicians and military leaders. Shame on you all for your crimes and hypocracy.

I think Tadic should give himself a high five. Way to go Tadic!!! Just keep on sending Serbs to the hague (court invented by americans to prosecute all serbs, so they can hide THEIR crimes yet again).

The Hague Tribunal is not a court of law, it is merely a tool of American foreign policy. Their game is not justice, but merely to humiliate the Serbs to tell them who's the boss.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Bosnian Serb government weren't forced to pay Oric compensation for all the stress the poor fellow has suffered.

If their were patriotic governments in Belgrade or Banja Luka, then they would deal with Oric as the Israelis deal with those who murder Jews.

Naser Oric is a crimianl not because he is a Bosnian, but because of his actions in the war. Read the book "Planned Chaos," written by Ibran Mustafic a democrate in the Bosnian Parliment during the war. Naser Oric admitted to murdering the judge of Srebranica Slobodan Ilic by sitting on his chest and driving a knife thru his eyes. The Hague is a kangaroo court in which not to many in the world pay any attention too. Anyway read the book. Have a great day. Happy fourth of July!

May I suggest a change in the title of this piece from:

"Hague appeals chamber acquits Orić"

to

"Hague appeals chamber calls ICTY prosecutors willfully incompetent"?

LOL! The same old dirty tricks being played at the ICTY. Now that the ICTY is being wound down, the original prosecutors can complain that their 'investigation' suffered from a lack of funds.

May Oric never die of old age.

The word travesty is too mild a description.

I'm no hater but this is an absolute disgrace. Seeing as its going in this direction already perhaps the Hague should officially apologise to Oric and pay him a few million Euro in compensation. Into the bargain they might probably recommend him for the nobel peace prize.

What on earth is the use of the Hague if it slaps victims in the face like this?

“without establishing beforehand who had committed the crimes, whether they had been the defendant's subordinates, or whether Orić had even known about the crimes in question.“

I read the original ruling.

Who committed the crimes?

“On 21 June 1992, Ratkovici, Gornji Ratkovici and Ducici were attacked by Bosnian Muslim fighters from two nearby villages and followed by a crowd of Bosnian Muslim civilians”

“On 27 June 1992, Bradjevina was attacked by Bosnian Muslim fighters. Only some of the attackers were identified as locals from the surrounding Bosnian Muslim villages, and they were followed by a crowd of Bosnian Muslim civilians.”

“On 8 August 1992, Jezestica was attacked by Bosnian Muslim fighters from Šusnjari, Jaglici and Glogova, as well as by Bosnian Muslim fighters of the 16th Muslim Brigade from Tuzla. The fighters were followed by a crowd of Bosnian Muslim civilians.”

“On 5 October 1992, Fakovici and Divovici were attacked by Bosnian Muslim fighters from Osmace, Suceska, Kragljivoda, Zanjevo, Jagodnja, Joseva and Tokoljaki, who were followed by thousands of Bosnian Muslim civilians. The Accused participated in the attack.”

“Between 14 and 19 December 1992, Bjelovac and Sikiric were attacked by Bosnian Muslim fighters from Voljevica, Biljaca, Potocari, Kazani, Luljaska, Suceska, Pale, Likari and Srebrenica Stari Grad, who were followed by thousands of Bosnian Muslim civilians. The Accused participated in the attack.”

“On 7 and 8 January 1993, Kravica, Siljkovici and Jezestica were attacked by Bosnian Muslim fighters from Suceska, Glogova, Biljeg, Mosici, Delici, Cerska, Skugrici, Jaglici, Susnjari, Brezova Njiva, Osmace, Konjevic Polje, Jagodnja, and Joseva. Also the Accused and members of his group of fighters participated in the attack. The fighters were followed by thousands of Bosnian Muslim civilians.”

“The picture that emerges from the evidence is not one of an organised army with a fully functioning command structure, but one of local groups remaining relatively independent and voluntary and a mass of uncontrollable civilians that were present at every attack… wanton destruction by civilians that were present before, during and after attacks in massive numbers”

Was he aware?

“The Trial Chamber has no doubt that the Accused was generally aware that Bosnian Serb property was destroyed by Bosnian Muslims, primarily civilians, who followed the fighters during attacks”

Oric was present during many of these attacks, how could he NOT be aware? This ruling flies in the face of the established facts.

this shows that the hague is 1 sided so no serbs to the hague end of story.

Naser Oric's trial was a purposeful farce. The Hague tried him for others' crimes in Srebrenica (for example prison guards who beat Serbs to a pulp) but avoided Naser Oric's own murdering and destruction of villages. So they got him light on saying he was somewhat responsible for a few select crimes of others.

A Bosnian Muslim who lived there during the war was witness to Naser Oric bragging about and detailing one of the first murders which happened during the war - the gory murder of Slobodan Ilic by bayoneting him in the eyes!:

http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog/2008/05/new_evidence_against_oric.html

Probably the most shocking chapter of the book is the one with Naser Oric's personal admission of the first Serb he killed by his own hands, murder of the Srebrenica Judge Slobodan Ilic.

"When we took that group captured in Zalazje from [Srebrenica] prison to take them back toward Zalazje, and when the slaying begun, Slobodan Ilic came into my hands. I climbed on his chest. He was bearded and hairy like an animal. He looked at me without saying a word. I took out the bayonet and jabbed it straight into one eye, and then turned it back and forth. He didn't let the single sound out. Then I hit him with the knife in the other eye... I couldn't believe he's not reacting. Frankly, that's when I got scared for the first time, so I cut his throat right after that", Oric described his 'feat' to Mustafic word-for-word during one evening Mustafic visited him.

What on earth is the use of the Hague if it slaps victims in the face like this?
(bganon, 3 July 2008 12:24)
--
You mean you haven't realised yet that this NATO court is designed to put the Serbian big fish behind bars or kill them while only convicting low-level Muslims and Croats to show some false sense of even handedness?

Do you think that Croat general (what's his name?) will be convicted? After the US were partners in crime with him? He will be found not guilty also.

But you bganon still support sending Serbians to their death?

Hello bganon,

You askegacd me a little while ago whether I though Mladic should be caught and delivered to ICTY. I gave a rather convoluted answer which I was disappointed didn't receive a response from you. I suspect I know why, you must be close to agreeing with me.

Once again we have another example of how ICTY has failed to deliver on alleged purpose and aim: to deliver justice to victims and to encourage a mutual rebuilding of trust and understanding amongst the various groups.

But what do we see again and again: ICTY's methods and decisions causing the complete opposite. The judge said (according to B92), "there was no doubt grave crimes had been committed against Serbs in the Srebrenica area between September 1992 and March 1993". The defendent on leaving court said (according to B92), "he was "happy", and that the verdict confirmed that no crimes had been committed by Muslim forces in the Srebrenica area."

The Muslim community has it reified in their psyche that they did nothing wrong; they committed no crime. The Serb victims have it confirmed - in their psyche - that ICTY is biased.

The judges decision may well be correct according to law. However, this is a failure of ICTY at the strategic level to prosecute the 'right' people for the 'right' crimes with the 'right' evidence.

Another murderer walks free because of the incompetence of the ICTY prosecution system and the manner in which the entire institution is run.

I guess you have to be a Serb to be convicted at this Micky Mouse court.

bganon, does your organization say its a good idea to pretend to care about the fate of serbs as well as bombard news with comments promoting people who are breaking up serbia and trying to destroy serbia? its in bad taste. you should stick to one theme at a time. first lets destroy serbia. then we'll cry crocodile tears because of serbs.
travesty is the madness the amok that tadic is today running accomodating every sps desire just so that he has a mate to sell kosovo with. that travesty will hurt more serbs more badly than this miserable criminal acquitted today ever could.

This is just more proof that the Hague is a complete farce and should not be recognized by any Serb. No Serbs should be sent to this abomination of justice, none, zero, zilch.
Nasir Oric has even admitted to western reporters, and even showed them videos of severed heads of Serbs while laughing, and he is still walking free. It is truly sickening that we have people in the Serbian government who send Serbs to the Hague. Is it not plain to everyone with half a brain that the Hague is a propoganda tool for the US and their colonialist friends?? And, bganon, for once I agree with your posting.

Well, if there is no clear proofs that Naser Oric commited war crimes, it’s normal that he would set free.

Sadly, we cannot say the same stuff about Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic, qho always ackowledged the massacre and expulsions of Bosnians from their lands as a kind of “sacred duty”…

ZK if you are asking me about Gotovina, what with the spectacular failures of the Hague prosecution of late I think you are right to think he will probably get off with a slap on the wrist and nothing more. His co-defendents however, will probably go down for 8-10 years or so.

Yes, I support Mladic and company being tried, although I have deep reservations about the Hague giving them a fair trial. Previously I wondered whether Serbian courts could deliver a fairer verdict than the Hague. But after recent trials, not any more. My advice to Tadic would be to use maximum pressure on EU countries to try remaining suspects in Serbia. The right moment to bring this to a climax will be when the Haradinaj appeal fails. In return Tadic guarantees arresting remaining Hague suspects and to try them in Serbia. Further compromises could be offered.

ZK you see for me its not enough to complain about a situation, you have to offer a solution as well. Fantastic we don't want to send suspects to the Hague, but what DO we do instead?

Willie, you didn't write anything I disagreed with!

Smile, what organisation is that? I don't work for an organisation although I was once a member (not employee) of Amnesty International.

Remind me smiley about what you said regarding SPS before the election? No wonder you have only slip in and out of here these days :)

Seeing as you supported the supposed arch traitor Zoran Djindjic I do find it amusing that you consider Tadic, who is more moderate, the destroyer of Serbia!

What is there more to say? If Oric has been found inocent of war crimes, the logical conclusion is that whatever was done against the Serbs, it ain't war crime. The term 'War Crime' is reserved only for the Serbs. Period. Now let Tadic and Co comment on the situation they have dragged the Serbs in.
As real Europeans, are they proud of their cooperation with the Hague?