Sarkozy: No enlargement without Lisbon

This kind of political abuse really sickens me.

I'm from a Western European country, currently living somewhere in Vojvodina. It's these kind of political games that sometimes make me really ashamed for being a European.

The real reason for the rejection of the Lisbon treaty is that most Europeans know that the EU government is the most corrupt one of all EU's institutions. The treaty would give it even more powers and as the saying says: "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely". On itself the corruption is not a real suprice. The distance between constituents and rulers is huge and a lot of the accountabilities of the EU government are not directly to the people but to local governments. That's asking for trouble. I think it's only wise that people are weary of extending the power of such a government.

The enlargement of the EU has not much to do with that though. Effectively the EU enlargement process has become more or less the process of abolishing the unfair political and trade practices as imposed during the cold and Balkans war on countries in Eastern Europe.

It's discusting that Sarkozy now uses the fear of corruption and an American like superstate as an excuse to maintain leverage over countries that want to be part of the EU. I just hope that enough people here see that he's just hoping that eagerness of countries like Croatia and Serbia will help him get what he's really after: becoming the first EU president! Because that's why he is so unhappy with Irelands vote. No Lisbon treaty means no EU president.

I can only hope that the half-year EU presidency of this sleazy right-wing xenophobic power-hungry opportunist won't do to much damage.

“He pointed out that for the first time since 2004, when he was appointed to the post, Serbia had a good chance to move forward.

"The new pro-EU government, which will be formed this week, will consist mostly of democratic forces,” the commissioner said.”

Ha ha ha, so Milosevic’s SPS is now more “democratic” than DSS which was hailed not long ago for ousting Milosevic?

DS just changed partners from DSS to SPS and they act like that’s a step forward, like its some kind of reform towards freedom and democracy? That it’s some kind of victory for the moderate forces of Serbia!

Expect to see calls for the Milosevic’s legacy to be re-written. I’m guessing he’ll start being portrayed as having been pro-Europe, ha ha ha…

ZK UK, do you have a problem with handing in Mladic and Karadzic to the Hague? Those two are WAR CRIMINALS and belog behind bars. WAKE UP!

Elmo,

I think Sarkozy has more then just Irelands democratic right to say NO - seems like Poland just threw in the latest spanner in the works. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4248923.ece

Rehn should stick to earlier comintments but seems incapable of spouting his mouth with more false dawns. Rehn on the 5th Oct 2006 regarding Croatia's commitment to join EU on 1st Jan 2009;

"“While we prepare internally for a new institutional settlement, the gradual and carefully managed accession process moves on with Croatia and other Western Balkan countries. While we are cautious about any new commitments, we stick to our existing commitments to these countries. Pacta sunt servanda is a fundamental European principle.”"

- sure this existing commitment is a great example for all other potential members that "pacta sunt servanda" is only applicable as and when EU chooses!

Ah but then the writing was on the wall when the EU choose to abandon common foreign policy with the fudge of all members states can act individually. This act gives the EUcratiic green light to the likes of the UK and France to act against pacta sund servanta when they signed and obligated themselves to UN SC resolution 1244 which they in good faith said they would re-affirm Serbia's sovereignty.

Oh what a tangled web we weave...

In 1990 when communism started to disintegrate, a Western newspaper published a prediction about the Eastern borders of (then) EIU 15 years from then. All Eastern bloc countries countries were in, including Yugoslavia and the Blatic countries, then still part of the USSR (the rest of the Soviet Union was expected to remain undivided), EXCEPT for Albania, Romania and Bulgaria.
The assumption of the newspaper seemed well grounded.
George Bush senior was eager to keep the Soviet Union intackt fearing nuclear proliferation and was suggesting it letting go only the Baltic countries annexed only during WWII, after a deal with Hitler!
On the Balkans Albania, Romania and Bulgaria were considered far too backword and undeveloped to join. Plus the Russians had to be left with a sphere of influence.
Soon after Jacques Delor, then head of the EIU Commission offered wide range of assistance for Yugoslavia on one condition -its republics not to start fighting!
It was presumed that the Yugo republics will grasp the opportunity. But we all know what happened. Except for Slovenia, the rest of former Yugoslavia turned into a black hole. The USSR collapsed totally, Romania and Bulgaria grasped the chance to become the land bridge bethween Greece and the rest of the EU and now... the proces of EU enlargement could be indefinitely postponed or even abandoned!
History is not a mother but a stapmother of the nations. It opens windows of oportunities, which if missed soon get closed!

He explained that Europe was “excepted to protect Europeans against the risks that come with globalization, and that is precisely where Europe is failing to deliver.”
--
Ahh, yes. This is the big danger to the West. The BRIC nations, amounting to about half the world's population with a motivated workforce and cheap labour is a very serious risk to the EU/US.

Serbia is in a very strong position to capitalise on this only if it stays out of the EU otherwise its prosperity will be stolen.

We must build strong links to all interests, including the EU and BRIC. Also, with a current world food shortage, Serbia can capitalise on this being a major food exporter.

What I can see is the EU and US becoming more isolationist and dictatorial as they cannot compete with BRIC.

Big fish eats small fish.
Ireland said no to the Lisbon treaty because to players like France, Germany and privileged other gentlemen in Brussels they are too small to listen to.
And in the meantime EU will milk everything out the small guys like the eager-beaver countries in the Balkans with the carrot on the stick (EU)
and without any oblige.
In the times like this I just wonder what all those small countries were thinking, that being independent means freedom?
Everybody who thinks that is either a fool or naive.

luigi, correct.

What most people don't realise is that the door to EU membership has always been closed. They attempted to open it with the EU constitution and the Lisbon treaty but both have failed! How they intend to accept new members now is really beyond me.

So you have all of these Serbians looking at a big and juicy carrot straight from Javier Salami's garden wanting a "Pro-EU" government (aka Frankenstein) that is only created to serve the interests of the EU and not Serbia.

That means handing over Mladic and co + the sale of Kosovo for a nice villa in France. Wake up people!

As i always said in this forum the enlargment process is dead..and the rejection of the lisboa treaty by the Irish is only an excuse..
there are other reasons mainly the fact that people inside EU are largerly against any new memberships( see polls taken in main EU states)..
I thought that there was a little window for Croatia granted by the sponsorship of Eu ruler Germania but maybe ..i was wrong (the latest Eu barometer was a punch in the stomach with less than 40% of Croats pro-eu )..
In the next 10-15 years ther will be only partnership for Eu hopeful so the Eu-bancomat will be "out of order" for all western balkans ....so wake up "dreams" are finished !!

so let's hope, ZK will get any official mandate once. I think, he should try to talk such nonsense to people directly.

Sarkozy spoke to whole Europe, he cannot hide behing particula national intersts. to mention the Balkans was not necessary, especially those countries which do not even fullfil the conditions of the SAA. start to clean before your own door first.

Luigi, I don’t understand why you keep parroting this idea of yours on every possible occasion as if there were a limit now in accepting new European members to the EU. That is after all your opinion. Why should Western Balkan countries suddenly be left out when the EU already has accepted the whole bunch - nearly all, if not all, of the former Warsaw Bloc countries, some of whose circumstances (economic and otherwise) have been far worse than some of the Western Balkans countries’ at admission? I think that the limit is the continent of Europe. Everybody European has the right to apply. But then of course there is the question if it is after all worth it. As a citizen of a Western European country myself I can only see and lament how the EU is fast becoming an abominable structure where only the elites steer and citizenry has nothing to say about. It is really a frightening development. So best of all, stay out while this continues.

to Mircea:

it´s you who should wake up!

Mladic and Karadzic are not really of importance.


if they are citizens of Serbia, there is no reason to hand anyone over to any foreign institution. it´s simply not their business.

if they are not serbian citizens, there is also no reason to hand them out, since they are very likely not in Serbia.

you don´t have to understand that, just keep up posting, it´s entertainment in the end.

ah..by the way, I know, you are simply an Albanian abusing an romanian name, but I will ask you anyway: if the two mentioned persons are war criminals, as you are writing...

WHAT are Bill Clinton, Madeleine Allbright and Javier Solana then???

do you have the guts to answer?

'Balkans belong to the EU'
What an arrogance coming from this French, as soon as he became 'Monsieur le President' of this strange entity called the EU.
To him the Will of the People means, apparently-nothing.
Before the Ireland's referendum he was threatening the people of that country with a language which was reminding us of the Soviets.
He can't accept that Balkans could possibly belong to the peoples who actually live there.
Irish have said a resounding NO to the ambitions of this man.
Would the Serbs find him more attractive?
How about his foreign minister Bernard Kouchner who made so many Kosovo's Serbs so happy?

LOL! So the western balkans will join the EU in a 'big bang' after all then?

The political elite in europe are risking serious damage to EU credibility with their actions. It seems that they are incapable of actually making the right decisions, i.e. ignoring their own rules (acquis communautaire) letting Bulgaria and Romania in (rampant corruption, independence of judiciary etc.) for political reasons, yet keeping Croatia, Serbia and Bosnia out.

So what was the recent Serbian election about?

Does the EU managed Serbian election that abuses serbia's democratic system and brings in an EU appointed DS-SPS-WTF coalition into power actually bring Serbia any closer to joining the EU? Sarko's words say 'no'. So what was the point of such massive EU manipulation of Serbia's election process and political system by 'helpful' foreigners?

Once for ignorance, twice for stupidity, three times for shame.

And so many so-called 'pro-EU' types continue to swallow the empty promises coming from Brussels because they have nothing else of value left they can believe in.

Land of milk and honey, here we don't come.

FOR JOVAN: How can you say Mladic and Karadzic are not important? They killed innocent Bosnian civilians. Remember SREBRENICA!!

Jovan:

"if the two mentioned persons (ie, Mladic and Karadzic) are war criminals, as you are writing...
WHAT are Bill Clinton, Madeleine Allbright and Javier Solana then???
do you have the guts to answer?"

I do, yes, all 5 mentioned just here are war criminals.

So? Sorry Jovan if that makes you feel any better about the first two, but it doesn't have that effect on me.

The last 3 war criminals for bombing civilains in Serbia in 1999? Sure. So what's that got to do with Mladic lining up 8000 Bosnian Muslims to be shot, burnt to death, whatever in 1995?

Gotovina etc are in the Hague. So they should be. Which means so should Karadzic and Mladic be. Simple.

Oh, but those other 3 (and no doubt others) are not being indicted. Bad, I agree completely. But so what? You want to hold your country's fate hostage for a couple of psychpathic mass killers, because someone else is not in the dock? That's crazy, cutting off your nose despite your face.

Let's look at the investment opportunities here, Serbia has an infrastructure and a potiential to be industrial giant. You have a highly skilled force capable of supplying a work force to power investment opportunities. The EU is a business some may not think so but they are. I am sure the EU will look upon Serbia as a great opportunity to build. I am not going to play the political games as some of these other posting persons have i am looking at the facts and assets outweigh libailites. Serbia has a established power grid so factories will not shut down due to power outages or corruption. I believe the EU will find away to incorporate Serbia into the fold. This strictly business it is not personal as some have made this Serbia/Kosovo business.

@Marika
Opinion Polls are clear...is not my opinion....Now many western politician look at them more carefully than what they used to do...For example many MP's in various EU countries are ready with referendum against any new candidates, and so on....
the only thing that could change this would be a decision taken by someone with the capacity to go against the will of the majority of his citizens...
Marika do you know a EU leader with this characteristic ???

Thank you for your comment, Luigi! I think that we in Europe have far graver problems than taking in a few remaining European countries to the EU that concern the populace! In the region I come from – Scandinavia – I have not noticed any particular opposition to the enlargement of the EU at present. Not anymore. It was considerable before the whole Warsaw bloc got admitted (and maybe changed the character of the EU forever) but now, face it – there is nearly no one left to admit anyway, except for the former Yugoslavian countries. Since the EU is the western-central European project, why should anybody discriminate so against the people who truly belong to these parts? Another matter would be to admit countries like Turkey, Georgia… - well, because they are not really Europe!

luigi, correct.

What most people don't realise is that the door to EU membership has always been closed. They attempted to open it with the EU constitution and the Lisbon treaty but both have failed! How they intend to accept new members now is really beyond me.

So you have all of these Serbians looking at a big and juicy carrot straight from Javier Salami's garden wanting a "Pro-EU" government (aka Frankenstein) that is only created to serve the interests of the EU and not Serbia.

That means handing over Mladic and co + the sale of Kosovo for a nice villa in France. Wake up people!

He explained that Europe was “excepted to protect Europeans against the risks that come with globalization, and that is precisely where Europe is failing to deliver.”
--
Ahh, yes. This is the big danger to the West. The BRIC nations, amounting to about half the world's population with a motivated workforce and cheap labour is a very serious risk to the EU/US.

Serbia is in a very strong position to capitalise on this only if it stays out of the EU otherwise its prosperity will be stolen.

We must build strong links to all interests, including the EU and BRIC. Also, with a current world food shortage, Serbia can capitalise on this being a major food exporter.

What I can see is the EU and US becoming more isolationist and dictatorial as they cannot compete with BRIC.

to Mircea:

it´s you who should wake up!

Mladic and Karadzic are not really of importance.


if they are citizens of Serbia, there is no reason to hand anyone over to any foreign institution. it´s simply not their business.

if they are not serbian citizens, there is also no reason to hand them out, since they are very likely not in Serbia.

you don´t have to understand that, just keep up posting, it´s entertainment in the end.

ah..by the way, I know, you are simply an Albanian abusing an romanian name, but I will ask you anyway: if the two mentioned persons are war criminals, as you are writing...

WHAT are Bill Clinton, Madeleine Allbright and Javier Solana then???

do you have the guts to answer?

LOL! So the western balkans will join the EU in a 'big bang' after all then?

The political elite in europe are risking serious damage to EU credibility with their actions. It seems that they are incapable of actually making the right decisions, i.e. ignoring their own rules (acquis communautaire) letting Bulgaria and Romania in (rampant corruption, independence of judiciary etc.) for political reasons, yet keeping Croatia, Serbia and Bosnia out.

So what was the recent Serbian election about?

Does the EU managed Serbian election that abuses serbia's democratic system and brings in an EU appointed DS-SPS-WTF coalition into power actually bring Serbia any closer to joining the EU? Sarko's words say 'no'. So what was the point of such massive EU manipulation of Serbia's election process and political system by 'helpful' foreigners?

Once for ignorance, twice for stupidity, three times for shame.

And so many so-called 'pro-EU' types continue to swallow the empty promises coming from Brussels because they have nothing else of value left they can believe in.

Land of milk and honey, here we don't come.

This kind of political abuse really sickens me.

I'm from a Western European country, currently living somewhere in Vojvodina. It's these kind of political games that sometimes make me really ashamed for being a European.

The real reason for the rejection of the Lisbon treaty is that most Europeans know that the EU government is the most corrupt one of all EU's institutions. The treaty would give it even more powers and as the saying says: "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely". On itself the corruption is not a real suprice. The distance between constituents and rulers is huge and a lot of the accountabilities of the EU government are not directly to the people but to local governments. That's asking for trouble. I think it's only wise that people are weary of extending the power of such a government.

The enlargement of the EU has not much to do with that though. Effectively the EU enlargement process has become more or less the process of abolishing the unfair political and trade practices as imposed during the cold and Balkans war on countries in Eastern Europe.

It's discusting that Sarkozy now uses the fear of corruption and an American like superstate as an excuse to maintain leverage over countries that want to be part of the EU. I just hope that enough people here see that he's just hoping that eagerness of countries like Croatia and Serbia will help him get what he's really after: becoming the first EU president! Because that's why he is so unhappy with Irelands vote. No Lisbon treaty means no EU president.

I can only hope that the half-year EU presidency of this sleazy right-wing xenophobic power-hungry opportunist won't do to much damage.

As i always said in this forum the enlargment process is dead..and the rejection of the lisboa treaty by the Irish is only an excuse..
there are other reasons mainly the fact that people inside EU are largerly against any new memberships( see polls taken in main EU states)..
I thought that there was a little window for Croatia granted by the sponsorship of Eu ruler Germania but maybe ..i was wrong (the latest Eu barometer was a punch in the stomach with less than 40% of Croats pro-eu )..
In the next 10-15 years ther will be only partnership for Eu hopeful so the Eu-bancomat will be "out of order" for all western balkans ....so wake up "dreams" are finished !!

Elmo,

I think Sarkozy has more then just Irelands democratic right to say NO - seems like Poland just threw in the latest spanner in the works. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4248923.ece

Rehn should stick to earlier comintments but seems incapable of spouting his mouth with more false dawns. Rehn on the 5th Oct 2006 regarding Croatia's commitment to join EU on 1st Jan 2009;

"“While we prepare internally for a new institutional settlement, the gradual and carefully managed accession process moves on with Croatia and other Western Balkan countries. While we are cautious about any new commitments, we stick to our existing commitments to these countries. Pacta sunt servanda is a fundamental European principle.”"

- sure this existing commitment is a great example for all other potential members that "pacta sunt servanda" is only applicable as and when EU chooses!

Ah but then the writing was on the wall when the EU choose to abandon common foreign policy with the fudge of all members states can act individually. This act gives the EUcratiic green light to the likes of the UK and France to act against pacta sund servanta when they signed and obligated themselves to UN SC resolution 1244 which they in good faith said they would re-affirm Serbia's sovereignty.

Oh what a tangled web we weave...

“He pointed out that for the first time since 2004, when he was appointed to the post, Serbia had a good chance to move forward.

"The new pro-EU government, which will be formed this week, will consist mostly of democratic forces,” the commissioner said.”

Ha ha ha, so Milosevic’s SPS is now more “democratic” than DSS which was hailed not long ago for ousting Milosevic?

DS just changed partners from DSS to SPS and they act like that’s a step forward, like its some kind of reform towards freedom and democracy? That it’s some kind of victory for the moderate forces of Serbia!

Expect to see calls for the Milosevic’s legacy to be re-written. I’m guessing he’ll start being portrayed as having been pro-Europe, ha ha ha…

In 1990 when communism started to disintegrate, a Western newspaper published a prediction about the Eastern borders of (then) EIU 15 years from then. All Eastern bloc countries countries were in, including Yugoslavia and the Blatic countries, then still part of the USSR (the rest of the Soviet Union was expected to remain undivided), EXCEPT for Albania, Romania and Bulgaria.
The assumption of the newspaper seemed well grounded.
George Bush senior was eager to keep the Soviet Union intackt fearing nuclear proliferation and was suggesting it letting go only the Baltic countries annexed only during WWII, after a deal with Hitler!
On the Balkans Albania, Romania and Bulgaria were considered far too backword and undeveloped to join. Plus the Russians had to be left with a sphere of influence.
Soon after Jacques Delor, then head of the EIU Commission offered wide range of assistance for Yugoslavia on one condition -its republics not to start fighting!
It was presumed that the Yugo republics will grasp the opportunity. But we all know what happened. Except for Slovenia, the rest of former Yugoslavia turned into a black hole. The USSR collapsed totally, Romania and Bulgaria grasped the chance to become the land bridge bethween Greece and the rest of the EU and now... the proces of EU enlargement could be indefinitely postponed or even abandoned!
History is not a mother but a stapmother of the nations. It opens windows of oportunities, which if missed soon get closed!

Big fish eats small fish.
Ireland said no to the Lisbon treaty because to players like France, Germany and privileged other gentlemen in Brussels they are too small to listen to.
And in the meantime EU will milk everything out the small guys like the eager-beaver countries in the Balkans with the carrot on the stick (EU)
and without any oblige.
In the times like this I just wonder what all those small countries were thinking, that being independent means freedom?
Everybody who thinks that is either a fool or naive.

Luigi, I don’t understand why you keep parroting this idea of yours on every possible occasion as if there were a limit now in accepting new European members to the EU. That is after all your opinion. Why should Western Balkan countries suddenly be left out when the EU already has accepted the whole bunch - nearly all, if not all, of the former Warsaw Bloc countries, some of whose circumstances (economic and otherwise) have been far worse than some of the Western Balkans countries’ at admission? I think that the limit is the continent of Europe. Everybody European has the right to apply. But then of course there is the question if it is after all worth it. As a citizen of a Western European country myself I can only see and lament how the EU is fast becoming an abominable structure where only the elites steer and citizenry has nothing to say about. It is really a frightening development. So best of all, stay out while this continues.

ZK UK, do you have a problem with handing in Mladic and Karadzic to the Hague? Those two are WAR CRIMINALS and belog behind bars. WAKE UP!

so let's hope, ZK will get any official mandate once. I think, he should try to talk such nonsense to people directly.

Sarkozy spoke to whole Europe, he cannot hide behing particula national intersts. to mention the Balkans was not necessary, especially those countries which do not even fullfil the conditions of the SAA. start to clean before your own door first.

'Balkans belong to the EU'
What an arrogance coming from this French, as soon as he became 'Monsieur le President' of this strange entity called the EU.
To him the Will of the People means, apparently-nothing.
Before the Ireland's referendum he was threatening the people of that country with a language which was reminding us of the Soviets.
He can't accept that Balkans could possibly belong to the peoples who actually live there.
Irish have said a resounding NO to the ambitions of this man.
Would the Serbs find him more attractive?
How about his foreign minister Bernard Kouchner who made so many Kosovo's Serbs so happy?

Jovan:

"if the two mentioned persons (ie, Mladic and Karadzic) are war criminals, as you are writing...
WHAT are Bill Clinton, Madeleine Allbright and Javier Solana then???
do you have the guts to answer?"

I do, yes, all 5 mentioned just here are war criminals.

So? Sorry Jovan if that makes you feel any better about the first two, but it doesn't have that effect on me.

The last 3 war criminals for bombing civilains in Serbia in 1999? Sure. So what's that got to do with Mladic lining up 8000 Bosnian Muslims to be shot, burnt to death, whatever in 1995?

Gotovina etc are in the Hague. So they should be. Which means so should Karadzic and Mladic be. Simple.

Oh, but those other 3 (and no doubt others) are not being indicted. Bad, I agree completely. But so what? You want to hold your country's fate hostage for a couple of psychpathic mass killers, because someone else is not in the dock? That's crazy, cutting off your nose despite your face.

Let's look at the investment opportunities here, Serbia has an infrastructure and a potiential to be industrial giant. You have a highly skilled force capable of supplying a work force to power investment opportunities. The EU is a business some may not think so but they are. I am sure the EU will look upon Serbia as a great opportunity to build. I am not going to play the political games as some of these other posting persons have i am looking at the facts and assets outweigh libailites. Serbia has a established power grid so factories will not shut down due to power outages or corruption. I believe the EU will find away to incorporate Serbia into the fold. This strictly business it is not personal as some have made this Serbia/Kosovo business.

@Marika
Opinion Polls are clear...is not my opinion....Now many western politician look at them more carefully than what they used to do...For example many MP's in various EU countries are ready with referendum against any new candidates, and so on....
the only thing that could change this would be a decision taken by someone with the capacity to go against the will of the majority of his citizens...
Marika do you know a EU leader with this characteristic ???

FOR JOVAN: How can you say Mladic and Karadzic are not important? They killed innocent Bosnian civilians. Remember SREBRENICA!!

Thank you for your comment, Luigi! I think that we in Europe have far graver problems than taking in a few remaining European countries to the EU that concern the populace! In the region I come from – Scandinavia – I have not noticed any particular opposition to the enlargement of the EU at present. Not anymore. It was considerable before the whole Warsaw bloc got admitted (and maybe changed the character of the EU forever) but now, face it – there is nearly no one left to admit anyway, except for the former Yugoslavian countries. Since the EU is the western-central European project, why should anybody discriminate so against the people who truly belong to these parts? Another matter would be to admit countries like Turkey, Georgia… - well, because they are not really Europe!