ZK, that "the reality on the ground" sounds to me very much like Mao's "power comes from the mouth of a gun". Maoist are well represented in the State Department nowadays. But they may overestimate their power.
Your assumption that my comments are ambiguous presumes that my position is based upon simple nationalist ideology. It is not.
It may surprise you, but I take your comment as a compliment and 'proof' of my non-partisan postion: I support neither Serb nor Albanian nationalist position.
Nevertheless, I am deeply concerned by the nature and realities of the issue both regionally in the Balkans and the wider implications elsewhere. Imposed partition of a sovereign state by a cabal of external interlopers is plain wrong and runs contrary to all the international agreements and resolutions passed by those very same external actors. This is the first worrying precedence being set in the current international system.
The second worrying precedence is the recently announced stance of the UNSG, that the UN will accept "realities on the ground". "Realities" I might point out that they themselves have helped create. A self-fulfilling prophesy, perhaps?
Rhodesian UDI in 1965 was very much a "reality on the ground", but it was not accept , sustained and encouraged by the UN or the international community. Was aparteid in RSA accepted, sustained and encouraged? Has the "reality" of Cyprus partition been accepted etc etc? Has the de facto occupation of the Golan Heights and 'Palestinian territory by Israel been accepted, sustained and encouraged by the UN? Shall I continue?
The decision by the UNSG to accept the "realities on the ground" without censure, without any attempt to prevent Pristina from exercising its self-proclaimed rights, shows that institutionally the UN Secretariat still favours and wishes to encourage the imposed partition of Serbia according to its own plan - the "Ahtisaari Plan".
I'm intrigued by your final sentence, "We have all seen your support for the independence cause on here but please don't contradict yourself so blatantly." Please do tell. I'm intrigued to know where you and everybody else have "seen [my] support for the independence cause." I'm usually attacked by the Albanian nationalists on B92 for being a prehistoric Serb nationaist. :)
Ask yourself why the EU is so keen to have DS leading the new government and why everybody is so keen to be rid of Kostunica.
Several, in fact the majority, of the senior DS figures have 'promised' their aquiescence in Kosovo's independence to the EU. All they ask in return is a little time to try and persued the public what a good idea it is and the EU to offer some nominal fig leafs to make it look like the DS is getting something in return.
In that sense, the new government is going to continue guffawing about maintaining Kosovo as part of Serbia, but at the same time work towards separateness - maybe keeping northern Kosovo as a bonus.
Had it not been for the lack of international support for Kosovo's independence (Only 43 states welcome it!), UNMIK would now be packing its bags and leaving Kosovo.
This is a dangerous situation developing and the simple way out (in the minds of the EU/US) is to get Serbia to back down. Unfortunately, it is just another short term fix that simple pushes problems further to the right on the time line.
You appear to be a wee bit confused in your response to our lovely Kate on here.
On the one hand you lament of the independent status of the province of Kosovo i Metohija then with the other hand you say that the new SR UNSG will travel to (persuade) the Serbian government to accept "the realities on the ground" - ie. allow Kosovo to become independent.
Yes you said it!!! Allow Kosovo to become independent.
So what is it? Independent or not? I'll tell you....NOT.
We have all seen your support for the independence cause on here but please don't contradict yourself so blatantly.
So what is the new SR UNSG going to do?
(Willie Garvin, 25 June 2008 19:06)
Very few people knows. My guess is that he will do his best to keep people quiet, organising endless meetings, taking out several bottles of wines from cellar ("taste this! what's your opinion? and this one?..."), telling jokes ("the captain of Carabinieri calls the Carabiniere alfonso ..."), the Albanians will play with their brand new passports, the Serbs will proclaim the virtues of international law, while de facto partition will progress on and on. the reality on the ground, after all.
Just a reminder to Mr. Lamberto Zannier. The UNSC had created the UNMIK so it is obviously that you should follow only the UNSC. Not George Bush! Not Javier Solana! Not Hashim Thaci! and not the EU!!
I see UNMIK enforcing the reality on the ground. The reality being the Serbians and other non-Albanians wanting nothing to do with Disneyland.
I see UNMIK being the buffer between the two systems and negotiating a technical agreement for transport and movement - effectively joining up the non-Albanians areas.
That is why the Albanians don't want UNMIK - because it will enforce the functional partition and that is probably the trade-off for having some EU presence in the Albanian areas.
Of course Tadic will try to sell Kosovo but I have faith that the people will rise and the Serbians in Kosovo will simply run things with the SRS/DSS pulling the strings.
I do agree with Kate in seeing some favourable aspects for the Serbians. The fact that it had to go back to the UN is a sign that things are not working out too well for the occupiers.
We need more regional integration. Create better highways with Albania/Macedonia/Montenegro and start working on a viable energy solution. Serbia is the past and we are the future.
Call me an optimist but I see things differently. I think that this new round of shuttle diplomacy is about trying to get Belgrade on board while recognising that they will never accept independence.
There is now a complete legal stalemate with Kosovo which has created a dangerous void and an inability to move forward.
I think that this shuttle diplomacy development should be viewed along with the various other annoucements which put a damper on the supposedly clear-cut issue of independence. Such as the statement that there will be no army in Kosovo; that all activities must remain under the UNSC 1244 mandate; and that the Ahtissari Plan is not being used as any basis by the UN.
That's why I feel hopeful - because I think that the UN, EU and even the US now see that this entire mess can be sorted out with some sort of compromise.
The constant talk about reinforcements being at the ready is, I'm sure, aimed at Kosovo Albanians who may become violent at the thought of compromise. They are now going to be pressured to come to some agreement(s) with Belgrade.
The new role of UMNIK is a waste of time and money. I really hope that I am proved wrong!
Frankly speaking the new mission of Umnik is not very welcomed in Kosova and as soon as it will show its "neutrality" towards Kosova independence....it will be ignored!
--Good! At least things are moving in the right direction!
sure it's good. Just a few things, like no partition and statehood are not negotiable. This is to get Serbs right now to support a pro-EU govt, that's all. Anyone that think K will go back under Serbia is delusional. You have 2 million Albanians right there. What do you think would happen? Serbs lost it long time aho
What do you mean (or believe) with your statement, "Good! At least things are moving in the right direction!"??
Pristina has declared independence, and announced that is now assuming full authority with all executive powers. This puts it into direct confrontation with the UNMIK who claim they still hold full authority with all executive powers according to UNSCR 1244.
Now, instead of denying Pristina the ability to exercise its self-proclaimed ambitions, the UN Secretariat has chosen to "recognise the realities on the ground" - ie. accept Pristina as a fully self-governing entity with far greater exective powers than RS!
So what is the new SR UNSG going to do? He's going to travel regularly to Belgrade (with Pristina's permission) to try and pursued the Serbian government to accept "the realities on the ground" - ie. allow Kosovo to become independent.
He shouldn't have too much difficulty in the matter now that Tadic and ZeS are going to form a government. Probably take about 12 months of public guffaw as DS try to pretend to the Serbian public that their decision to say good-bye is really 'in Serbia's best interests'.
Call me an optimist but I see things differently. I think that this new round of shuttle diplomacy is about trying to get Belgrade on board while recognising that they will never accept independence.
There is now a complete legal stalemate with Kosovo which has created a dangerous void and an inability to move forward.
I think that this shuttle diplomacy development should be viewed along with the various other annoucements which put a damper on the supposedly clear-cut issue of independence. Such as the statement that there will be no army in Kosovo; that all activities must remain under the UNSC 1244 mandate; and that the Ahtissari Plan is not being used as any basis by the UN.
That's why I feel hopeful - because I think that the UN, EU and even the US now see that this entire mess can be sorted out with some sort of compromise.
The constant talk about reinforcements being at the ready is, I'm sure, aimed at Kosovo Albanians who may become violent at the thought of compromise. They are now going to be pressured to come to some agreement(s) with Belgrade.
I see UNMIK enforcing the reality on the ground. The reality being the Serbians and other non-Albanians wanting nothing to do with Disneyland.
I see UNMIK being the buffer between the two systems and negotiating a technical agreement for transport and movement - effectively joining up the non-Albanians areas.
That is why the Albanians don't want UNMIK - because it will enforce the functional partition and that is probably the trade-off for having some EU presence in the Albanian areas.
Of course Tadic will try to sell Kosovo but I have faith that the people will rise and the Serbians in Kosovo will simply run things with the SRS/DSS pulling the strings.
I do agree with Kate in seeing some favourable aspects for the Serbians. The fact that it had to go back to the UN is a sign that things are not working out too well for the occupiers.
What do you mean (or believe) with your statement, "Good! At least things are moving in the right direction!"??
Pristina has declared independence, and announced that is now assuming full authority with all executive powers. This puts it into direct confrontation with the UNMIK who claim they still hold full authority with all executive powers according to UNSCR 1244.
Now, instead of denying Pristina the ability to exercise its self-proclaimed ambitions, the UN Secretariat has chosen to "recognise the realities on the ground" - ie. accept Pristina as a fully self-governing entity with far greater exective powers than RS!
So what is the new SR UNSG going to do? He's going to travel regularly to Belgrade (with Pristina's permission) to try and pursued the Serbian government to accept "the realities on the ground" - ie. allow Kosovo to become independent.
He shouldn't have too much difficulty in the matter now that Tadic and ZeS are going to form a government. Probably take about 12 months of public guffaw as DS try to pretend to the Serbian public that their decision to say good-bye is really 'in Serbia's best interests'.
--Good! At least things are moving in the right direction!
sure it's good. Just a few things, like no partition and statehood are not negotiable. This is to get Serbs right now to support a pro-EU govt, that's all. Anyone that think K will go back under Serbia is delusional. You have 2 million Albanians right there. What do you think would happen? Serbs lost it long time aho
The new role of UMNIK is a waste of time and money. I really hope that I am proved wrong!
Frankly speaking the new mission of Umnik is not very welcomed in Kosova and as soon as it will show its "neutrality" towards Kosova independence....it will be ignored!
We need more regional integration. Create better highways with Albania/Macedonia/Montenegro and start working on a viable energy solution. Serbia is the past and we are the future.
Just a reminder to Mr. Lamberto Zannier. The UNSC had created the UNMIK so it is obviously that you should follow only the UNSC. Not George Bush! Not Javier Solana! Not Hashim Thaci! and not the EU!!
So what is the new SR UNSG going to do?
(Willie Garvin, 25 June 2008 19:06)
Very few people knows. My guess is that he will do his best to keep people quiet, organising endless meetings, taking out several bottles of wines from cellar ("taste this! what's your opinion? and this one?..."), telling jokes ("the captain of Carabinieri calls the Carabiniere alfonso ..."), the Albanians will play with their brand new passports, the Serbs will proclaim the virtues of international law, while de facto partition will progress on and on. the reality on the ground, after all.
You appear to be a wee bit confused in your response to our lovely Kate on here.
On the one hand you lament of the independent status of the province of Kosovo i Metohija then with the other hand you say that the new SR UNSG will travel to (persuade) the Serbian government to accept "the realities on the ground" - ie. allow Kosovo to become independent.
Yes you said it!!! Allow Kosovo to become independent.
So what is it? Independent or not? I'll tell you....NOT.
We have all seen your support for the independence cause on here but please don't contradict yourself so blatantly.
ZK, that "the reality on the ground" sounds to me very much like Mao's "power comes from the mouth of a gun". Maoist are well represented in the State Department nowadays. But they may overestimate their power.
Ask yourself why the EU is so keen to have DS leading the new government and why everybody is so keen to be rid of Kostunica.
Several, in fact the majority, of the senior DS figures have 'promised' their aquiescence in Kosovo's independence to the EU. All they ask in return is a little time to try and persued the public what a good idea it is and the EU to offer some nominal fig leafs to make it look like the DS is getting something in return.
In that sense, the new government is going to continue guffawing about maintaining Kosovo as part of Serbia, but at the same time work towards separateness - maybe keeping northern Kosovo as a bonus.
Had it not been for the lack of international support for Kosovo's independence (Only 43 states welcome it!), UNMIK would now be packing its bags and leaving Kosovo.
This is a dangerous situation developing and the simple way out (in the minds of the EU/US) is to get Serbia to back down. Unfortunately, it is just another short term fix that simple pushes problems further to the right on the time line.
Your assumption that my comments are ambiguous presumes that my position is based upon simple nationalist ideology. It is not.
It may surprise you, but I take your comment as a compliment and 'proof' of my non-partisan postion: I support neither Serb nor Albanian nationalist position.
Nevertheless, I am deeply concerned by the nature and realities of the issue both regionally in the Balkans and the wider implications elsewhere. Imposed partition of a sovereign state by a cabal of external interlopers is plain wrong and runs contrary to all the international agreements and resolutions passed by those very same external actors. This is the first worrying precedence being set in the current international system.
The second worrying precedence is the recently announced stance of the UNSG, that the UN will accept "realities on the ground". "Realities" I might point out that they themselves have helped create. A self-fulfilling prophesy, perhaps?
Rhodesian UDI in 1965 was very much a "reality on the ground", but it was not accept , sustained and encouraged by the UN or the international community. Was aparteid in RSA accepted, sustained and encouraged? Has the "reality" of Cyprus partition been accepted etc etc? Has the de facto occupation of the Golan Heights and 'Palestinian territory by Israel been accepted, sustained and encouraged by the UN? Shall I continue?
The decision by the UNSG to accept the "realities on the ground" without censure, without any attempt to prevent Pristina from exercising its self-proclaimed rights, shows that institutionally the UN Secretariat still favours and wishes to encourage the imposed partition of Serbia according to its own plan - the "Ahtisaari Plan".
I'm intrigued by your final sentence, "We have all seen your support for the independence cause on here but please don't contradict yourself so blatantly." Please do tell. I'm intrigued to know where you and everybody else have "seen [my] support for the independence cause." I'm usually attacked by the Albanian nationalists on B92 for being a prehistoric Serb nationaist. :)
What do you mean (or believe) with your statement, "Good! At least things are moving in the right direction!"??
Pristina has declared independence, and announced that is now assuming full authority with all executive powers. This puts it into direct confrontation with the UNMIK who claim they still hold full authority with all executive powers according to UNSCR 1244.
Now, instead of denying Pristina the ability to exercise its self-proclaimed ambitions, the UN Secretariat has chosen to "recognise the realities on the ground" - ie. accept Pristina as a fully self-governing entity with far greater exective powers than RS!
So what is the new SR UNSG going to do? He's going to travel regularly to Belgrade (with Pristina's permission) to try and pursued the Serbian government to accept "the realities on the ground" - ie. allow Kosovo to become independent.
He shouldn't have too much difficulty in the matter now that Tadic and ZeS are going to form a government. Probably take about 12 months of public guffaw as DS try to pretend to the Serbian public that their decision to say good-bye is really 'in Serbia's best interests'.
--Good! At least things are moving in the right direction!
sure it's good. Just a few things, like no partition and statehood are not negotiable. This is to get Serbs right now to support a pro-EU govt, that's all. Anyone that think K will go back under Serbia is delusional. You have 2 million Albanians right there. What do you think would happen? Serbs lost it long time aho
The new role of UMNIK is a waste of time and money. I really hope that I am proved wrong!
Frankly speaking the new mission of Umnik is not very welcomed in Kosova and as soon as it will show its "neutrality" towards Kosova independence....it will be ignored!
You appear to be a wee bit confused in your response to our lovely Kate on here.
On the one hand you lament of the independent status of the province of Kosovo i Metohija then with the other hand you say that the new SR UNSG will travel to (persuade) the Serbian government to accept "the realities on the ground" - ie. allow Kosovo to become independent.
Yes you said it!!! Allow Kosovo to become independent.
So what is it? Independent or not? I'll tell you....NOT.
We have all seen your support for the independence cause on here but please don't contradict yourself so blatantly.
We need more regional integration. Create better highways with Albania/Macedonia/Montenegro and start working on a viable energy solution. Serbia is the past and we are the future.
Call me an optimist but I see things differently. I think that this new round of shuttle diplomacy is about trying to get Belgrade on board while recognising that they will never accept independence.
There is now a complete legal stalemate with Kosovo which has created a dangerous void and an inability to move forward.
I think that this shuttle diplomacy development should be viewed along with the various other annoucements which put a damper on the supposedly clear-cut issue of independence. Such as the statement that there will be no army in Kosovo; that all activities must remain under the UNSC 1244 mandate; and that the Ahtissari Plan is not being used as any basis by the UN.
That's why I feel hopeful - because I think that the UN, EU and even the US now see that this entire mess can be sorted out with some sort of compromise.
The constant talk about reinforcements being at the ready is, I'm sure, aimed at Kosovo Albanians who may become violent at the thought of compromise. They are now going to be pressured to come to some agreement(s) with Belgrade.
I see UNMIK enforcing the reality on the ground. The reality being the Serbians and other non-Albanians wanting nothing to do with Disneyland.
I see UNMIK being the buffer between the two systems and negotiating a technical agreement for transport and movement - effectively joining up the non-Albanians areas.
That is why the Albanians don't want UNMIK - because it will enforce the functional partition and that is probably the trade-off for having some EU presence in the Albanian areas.
Of course Tadic will try to sell Kosovo but I have faith that the people will rise and the Serbians in Kosovo will simply run things with the SRS/DSS pulling the strings.
I do agree with Kate in seeing some favourable aspects for the Serbians. The fact that it had to go back to the UN is a sign that things are not working out too well for the occupiers.
Just a reminder to Mr. Lamberto Zannier. The UNSC had created the UNMIK so it is obviously that you should follow only the UNSC. Not George Bush! Not Javier Solana! Not Hashim Thaci! and not the EU!!
So what is the new SR UNSG going to do?
(Willie Garvin, 25 June 2008 19:06)
Very few people knows. My guess is that he will do his best to keep people quiet, organising endless meetings, taking out several bottles of wines from cellar ("taste this! what's your opinion? and this one?..."), telling jokes ("the captain of Carabinieri calls the Carabiniere alfonso ..."), the Albanians will play with their brand new passports, the Serbs will proclaim the virtues of international law, while de facto partition will progress on and on. the reality on the ground, after all.
Ask yourself why the EU is so keen to have DS leading the new government and why everybody is so keen to be rid of Kostunica.
Several, in fact the majority, of the senior DS figures have 'promised' their aquiescence in Kosovo's independence to the EU. All they ask in return is a little time to try and persued the public what a good idea it is and the EU to offer some nominal fig leafs to make it look like the DS is getting something in return.
In that sense, the new government is going to continue guffawing about maintaining Kosovo as part of Serbia, but at the same time work towards separateness - maybe keeping northern Kosovo as a bonus.
Had it not been for the lack of international support for Kosovo's independence (Only 43 states welcome it!), UNMIK would now be packing its bags and leaving Kosovo.
This is a dangerous situation developing and the simple way out (in the minds of the EU/US) is to get Serbia to back down. Unfortunately, it is just another short term fix that simple pushes problems further to the right on the time line.
Your assumption that my comments are ambiguous presumes that my position is based upon simple nationalist ideology. It is not.
It may surprise you, but I take your comment as a compliment and 'proof' of my non-partisan postion: I support neither Serb nor Albanian nationalist position.
Nevertheless, I am deeply concerned by the nature and realities of the issue both regionally in the Balkans and the wider implications elsewhere. Imposed partition of a sovereign state by a cabal of external interlopers is plain wrong and runs contrary to all the international agreements and resolutions passed by those very same external actors. This is the first worrying precedence being set in the current international system.
The second worrying precedence is the recently announced stance of the UNSG, that the UN will accept "realities on the ground". "Realities" I might point out that they themselves have helped create. A self-fulfilling prophesy, perhaps?
Rhodesian UDI in 1965 was very much a "reality on the ground", but it was not accept , sustained and encouraged by the UN or the international community. Was aparteid in RSA accepted, sustained and encouraged? Has the "reality" of Cyprus partition been accepted etc etc? Has the de facto occupation of the Golan Heights and 'Palestinian territory by Israel been accepted, sustained and encouraged by the UN? Shall I continue?
The decision by the UNSG to accept the "realities on the ground" without censure, without any attempt to prevent Pristina from exercising its self-proclaimed rights, shows that institutionally the UN Secretariat still favours and wishes to encourage the imposed partition of Serbia according to its own plan - the "Ahtisaari Plan".
I'm intrigued by your final sentence, "We have all seen your support for the independence cause on here but please don't contradict yourself so blatantly." Please do tell. I'm intrigued to know where you and everybody else have "seen [my] support for the independence cause." I'm usually attacked by the Albanian nationalists on B92 for being a prehistoric Serb nationaist. :)
ZK, that "the reality on the ground" sounds to me very much like Mao's "power comes from the mouth of a gun". Maoist are well represented in the State Department nowadays. But they may overestimate their power.
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