Greece: No progress in name row

The name dispute won't be resolved anytime soon because the leaders of Fyrom have created a nationalistic beast,fed with false historical facts,that cannot be controlled.
Many times, in the past seventeen years, that there was a glimmer of hope for a solution,fyrom will add new demands ie ethnicity,language etc in order to avoid solution and at the same time try to achieve recognition of its constitutional name through the back door.
With regard to identity i will refer the Fyrom posters to letters of their hero Goce
Delchev to his friend Nicola Malshevski and in recent times to statements made by thier former president Grigorov,pm Georgievski and many others.
Fyrom's modern language belongs to the Slavicgroup of
languages and many linguists believe that its a dialect of eastern Bulgarian.Therefore, their attempt to connect it to ancient makedonian is just prepossterous-to say the least.
Gruevski & co have boxed themselves into a corner by overestimating US soft power and underestimating the Greek
resolve.He cannot change the
constitutional name of his country and drop all claims to ancient Greek history since such an action will constitute an act of betrayal to his people and destroy the false fundations that his country has been built upon.
On the other hand continuation of the status quo-remaining outside of NATO
and EU-will create internal strife between the communities that make up the country and eventually lead to its disollution which, iam cerain ,it won't be pleasant.
Also one has to question the political maturity of Gruevski and co on their performances so far which shows that they are immature and inexperienced politicians

Why should Greece lift the veto, for entrance at the 9th of July for FYROM? Did anything changed in their behaviour??

There is a 17 year negotiation process for their name. They have not agreed at ANY change in the name yet.

They just say "ok we will continue to negotiate but we will not change our name!" Greece will NEVER allow them to join ANY international organization even if 200 years pass. They will be the "NOBODY state" of the region. They will be the state that no other country around reckognise their existance EVER.

Keep your blind nationalism FYROM. Please never agree in any name change! Please! This will be the end of your country anyway. The albanians already have plans how to break you apart. And we in Greece will be VERY happy to see that!

Pavlos,
Albanians do not have any plan to break it apart. Albanians are struggleing only for a better status in this country. Albanians were, are and will always be a factor of peace and stabitity in the Balkans, a fact recognized be the whole international community.
How is it that spreading lies on our regards has come to be the prefered sport of some of you Greeks?
And another thing, could you please leave us out of your desputes? Is it so much to ask?

The new "Greeks" have taken it upon themselves to claim every hero out, "barbarian" or not. While FYROM might not have much to do with Alexander, the Greeks don't either. It is obvious they were two different entities; there was no Greek blood in him.

@4 Ermal

"Albanians were, are and will always be a factor of peace and stabitity in the Balkans, a fact recognized be the whole international community."

Please leave this childish phrase behind and look for a new one.
Peace factor is KLA, or UCK, or the armed gangs that terrorised fyrom during the late elections?
Or maybe it is because you are a peace factor, the KFOR organised check points for the albanians to surrender their arms all around Kossovo (something that still hasnt been concluded)?
Or maybe isnt it the albanians of Kossovo that have a border dispute with Fyrom?

And about this cia statement that names you the peace keeping force of the balkans and the major factor of its stability, I only found this:

"Albania has played a largely helpful role in managing inter-ethnic tensions in southeastern Europe"

which is far from what you posted here and somewhere else also. So please, if you have any hard evidence, post it. Otherwise stop being the one that is spreading lies and accusing others for doing so on top.

@2 Pavlos
"This will be the end of your country anyway. The albanians already have plans how to break you apart. And we in Greece will be VERY happy to see that!"
Sorry Pavlo, but I will not be happy to see that. Of course there are pros and cons in this, but dissolving a country is never something to be happy for.

On another note, I was laughing with Milisoski's arrogance. That kid that went to school with Greek funds, feels he is the king of the world. I believe that all fyromian problems begin from the arrogance of such small youngsters that feel that since they got hold of a chair, they rule the world. Sorry kids, politics is a game played by bigger boys. Go to another beach :)

The albanians already have plans how to break you apart. And we in Greece will be VERY happy to see that!
(Pavlos, 25 June 2008 17:02)

Dont get too happy just yet. I am sure the Albanians have a plan for joining both macedonias under their control. Kosovo was just the start. Just wait and see.

@6 Al

" It is obvious they were two different entities; there was no Greek blood in him."

Lol.... Right. Let me guess. He was albanian!!!!

Nikita, if you are not happy to see the fake slavo-macedonian country to disindegrate, it is just your opinion and I respect it. I am sure the majority of the greek people - especially the macedonians - agree with me and not with you.

Anyway, save your energy and your time, (by considering the frequency and mostly the size of your answers, it seems you have a lot of both of them (evergy and time)...), to give to the people you should give too. I am sure you have a lot of interesting things to tell them, and I would also like to read them as I usually do.

I am sure you understand the "spirit" of my previous answer, so it's pointless to waste your time replying to me, and not to the people you should reply to.

@11 Dimitar

"Its obvious what you are, a Macedonian turned against your own!"
Lol.... Dimitar, of course you wouldnt know that, but I have to inform you that we Makedonians never turn against our own.

Pavlo, its true, I do have a lot of time in my hands :) But these answers of mine take only a couple of minutes to type and they are so fan to do :)
And thank you for reading my posts so thouroghly, same goes for you too and Leonidas also.
But you know what?
My posts are lengthy because when I post something I need it to be well documented and clear to what it says, contrary to ungrounded claims and senseless accusations made by others.
On the issue of the albanians wanting a piece of the fyromian land, we agree. I have the same feeling too. But thinking of the bigger picture and looking behind the tree, and also putting aside both our dedication to out fatherland Makedonia, it is clear that what is hidden behind a dissolve of this fabricated fyromian state is much worse than its existance, which in the long run will be on the grounds of historical justice with a name that will not insult our history and heritage.
Hope you get my point :)
In short, I am not worried about fyrom's new name (although I too would rather never see any mentioning of our sacred names and symbols in it, but thats politics also you know) rather than fyrom's splitting.

To "NapredMakedonija" and the other slavs:

I can assure you that I am very relaxed over the name dispute. I know 100% that sooner or later your country will change it's name, either you like it or not. :)

And of course I repeat what I said: All this blind nationalism from your VMRO goverment, and all the constant effort - for years - from your people to steal a history and a culture you have nothing to do with, has made me - together with the majority of the greek people - to wish your end as a state.

After all, you are an artificial state entity, that was created just 60 years ago to serve specific political purposes. You were never a true country or a true nation, and of course you will never be.

The continuous effort from your state officials to "create" a national identity that you never had, so you can survive reaches it's end now.

As you see, there cannot be people that wake up one day and say" Ok, we know that we are Slavs, but we will start talking about being descednats of Alexander the Great from now on!"

This is exactly what your politicians did! And they invested greatly on that effort, so they can persuade with false and unhistorical reasoning even the younger generations, that they are true! But of course you cannot just "create" a national idenity by stealing someone's else and then claim that he is nationalist!!

I repeat, me with the majority of the greek people, really wish that your aritificial state ends soon, as suddenly as it was created 60 years ago.

Of course we could never use violence against you (we could do it easily - we are much stronger - , but we also are a civiliazed and peaceful nation), but to be honest.... there is not even 1 Greek citizen that would be mourning if the albanians ended you!

Your polticians created this feeling to the majority of the greek people with their continuous effort of insulting the Greek nation and stealing it's history and national idenity all these years, without think of the consequences! Nobody else!

In that picture, is Solana thinking "hmmm...I'd like a piece of her souvlaki"?

@13 Napred

"after all the name MACEDONIA derives from ancient times though the name greece/hellas is relatively new in comparison"
Ehmmmm no. They are equally old, although Hellas might be even older. "Greece" is a latin language definition based on older name, although that one too is deriving from ancient greek scripts.
Besides, if you dont recall any nation called Hellas in the past, then you obviously havent read what is important. And to finish once and for all with this argument. Its one thing "a nation" and another "a country".
And in any case, realise this please. Makedonia as also Thessalia, Crete, Peloponissos, Thraki, Epiros, and all islands, are vital parts of the country's heritage, history, tradition etc etc. There is no logic in your argument at all, since we are not fighting for our country's name but for our history and part of our fatherland.

"After all we are all orthodox!"
After all, this has nothing to do with politics. Lol... and to think that WE are accused of being a theocratic society :)

FYROM is a Satellite of XYugoslavia without Identity and future.They want to steal the "Macedonia" name, which is Greek for Centuries.Few studies lately became public,that Organize Crime controls FYROM & Kosovo ;no surprise ! The biggest problem in Greece and Europe today in different crimes are the Albanians.

Such rhetoric from the resident "Greek intellectuals"! I'm surprised b92 even allows such propaganda.

As for Pavlos, how do you sleep at night?? An individual filled with such hatred, speaks very clearly about the Greek system of brainwashing it's multiethnic denizen! Its obvious what you are, a Macedonian turned against your own!

I suggest that greece changes its name to Macedonia if the relevant name is so important, after all the name MACEDONIA derives from ancient times though the name greece/hellas is relatively new in comparison. I dont recall any nations named greece/hellas in ancient history hence why not change the name? Hehe then we can have upper & lower macedonias! Pavle, if we are going to disintegrate at the hands of the albanian then why do u bother with your posts? Why not sit back and relax and watch it unfold? Yet you persist? I think its best if you go away, their is no logic in your thought process, just hatred! We are happy to here any fair and mature arguments e.g nikitas, but people like you are a waste of time! After all we are all orthodox!

Such rhetoric from the resident "Greek intellectuals"! I'm surprised b92 even allows such propaganda.

As for Pavlos, how do you sleep at night?? An individual filled with such hatred, speaks very clearly about the Greek system of brainwashing it's multiethnic denizen! Its obvious what you are, a Macedonian turned against your own!

Pavlos,
Albanians do not have any plan to break it apart. Albanians are struggleing only for a better status in this country. Albanians were, are and will always be a factor of peace and stabitity in the Balkans, a fact recognized be the whole international community.
How is it that spreading lies on our regards has come to be the prefered sport of some of you Greeks?
And another thing, could you please leave us out of your desputes? Is it so much to ask?

The new "Greeks" have taken it upon themselves to claim every hero out, "barbarian" or not. While FYROM might not have much to do with Alexander, the Greeks don't either. It is obvious they were two different entities; there was no Greek blood in him.

The name dispute won't be resolved anytime soon because the leaders of Fyrom have created a nationalistic beast,fed with false historical facts,that cannot be controlled.
Many times, in the past seventeen years, that there was a glimmer of hope for a solution,fyrom will add new demands ie ethnicity,language etc in order to avoid solution and at the same time try to achieve recognition of its constitutional name through the back door.
With regard to identity i will refer the Fyrom posters to letters of their hero Goce
Delchev to his friend Nicola Malshevski and in recent times to statements made by thier former president Grigorov,pm Georgievski and many others.
Fyrom's modern language belongs to the Slavicgroup of
languages and many linguists believe that its a dialect of eastern Bulgarian.Therefore, their attempt to connect it to ancient makedonian is just prepossterous-to say the least.
Gruevski & co have boxed themselves into a corner by overestimating US soft power and underestimating the Greek
resolve.He cannot change the
constitutional name of his country and drop all claims to ancient Greek history since such an action will constitute an act of betrayal to his people and destroy the false fundations that his country has been built upon.
On the other hand continuation of the status quo-remaining outside of NATO
and EU-will create internal strife between the communities that make up the country and eventually lead to its disollution which, iam cerain ,it won't be pleasant.
Also one has to question the political maturity of Gruevski and co on their performances so far which shows that they are immature and inexperienced politicians

Why should Greece lift the veto, for entrance at the 9th of July for FYROM? Did anything changed in their behaviour??

There is a 17 year negotiation process for their name. They have not agreed at ANY change in the name yet.

They just say "ok we will continue to negotiate but we will not change our name!" Greece will NEVER allow them to join ANY international organization even if 200 years pass. They will be the "NOBODY state" of the region. They will be the state that no other country around reckognise their existance EVER.

Keep your blind nationalism FYROM. Please never agree in any name change! Please! This will be the end of your country anyway. The albanians already have plans how to break you apart. And we in Greece will be VERY happy to see that!

@2 Pavlos
"This will be the end of your country anyway. The albanians already have plans how to break you apart. And we in Greece will be VERY happy to see that!"
Sorry Pavlo, but I will not be happy to see that. Of course there are pros and cons in this, but dissolving a country is never something to be happy for.

On another note, I was laughing with Milisoski's arrogance. That kid that went to school with Greek funds, feels he is the king of the world. I believe that all fyromian problems begin from the arrogance of such small youngsters that feel that since they got hold of a chair, they rule the world. Sorry kids, politics is a game played by bigger boys. Go to another beach :)

In that picture, is Solana thinking "hmmm...I'd like a piece of her souvlaki"?

@11 Dimitar

"Its obvious what you are, a Macedonian turned against your own!"
Lol.... Dimitar, of course you wouldnt know that, but I have to inform you that we Makedonians never turn against our own.

Pavlo, its true, I do have a lot of time in my hands :) But these answers of mine take only a couple of minutes to type and they are so fan to do :)
And thank you for reading my posts so thouroghly, same goes for you too and Leonidas also.
But you know what?
My posts are lengthy because when I post something I need it to be well documented and clear to what it says, contrary to ungrounded claims and senseless accusations made by others.
On the issue of the albanians wanting a piece of the fyromian land, we agree. I have the same feeling too. But thinking of the bigger picture and looking behind the tree, and also putting aside both our dedication to out fatherland Makedonia, it is clear that what is hidden behind a dissolve of this fabricated fyromian state is much worse than its existance, which in the long run will be on the grounds of historical justice with a name that will not insult our history and heritage.
Hope you get my point :)
In short, I am not worried about fyrom's new name (although I too would rather never see any mentioning of our sacred names and symbols in it, but thats politics also you know) rather than fyrom's splitting.

To "NapredMakedonija" and the other slavs:

I can assure you that I am very relaxed over the name dispute. I know 100% that sooner or later your country will change it's name, either you like it or not. :)

And of course I repeat what I said: All this blind nationalism from your VMRO goverment, and all the constant effort - for years - from your people to steal a history and a culture you have nothing to do with, has made me - together with the majority of the greek people - to wish your end as a state.

After all, you are an artificial state entity, that was created just 60 years ago to serve specific political purposes. You were never a true country or a true nation, and of course you will never be.

The continuous effort from your state officials to "create" a national identity that you never had, so you can survive reaches it's end now.

As you see, there cannot be people that wake up one day and say" Ok, we know that we are Slavs, but we will start talking about being descednats of Alexander the Great from now on!"

This is exactly what your politicians did! And they invested greatly on that effort, so they can persuade with false and unhistorical reasoning even the younger generations, that they are true! But of course you cannot just "create" a national idenity by stealing someone's else and then claim that he is nationalist!!

I repeat, me with the majority of the greek people, really wish that your aritificial state ends soon, as suddenly as it was created 60 years ago.

Of course we could never use violence against you (we could do it easily - we are much stronger - , but we also are a civiliazed and peaceful nation), but to be honest.... there is not even 1 Greek citizen that would be mourning if the albanians ended you!

Your polticians created this feeling to the majority of the greek people with their continuous effort of insulting the Greek nation and stealing it's history and national idenity all these years, without think of the consequences! Nobody else!

The albanians already have plans how to break you apart. And we in Greece will be VERY happy to see that!
(Pavlos, 25 June 2008 17:02)

Dont get too happy just yet. I am sure the Albanians have a plan for joining both macedonias under their control. Kosovo was just the start. Just wait and see.

@4 Ermal

"Albanians were, are and will always be a factor of peace and stabitity in the Balkans, a fact recognized be the whole international community."

Please leave this childish phrase behind and look for a new one.
Peace factor is KLA, or UCK, or the armed gangs that terrorised fyrom during the late elections?
Or maybe it is because you are a peace factor, the KFOR organised check points for the albanians to surrender their arms all around Kossovo (something that still hasnt been concluded)?
Or maybe isnt it the albanians of Kossovo that have a border dispute with Fyrom?

And about this cia statement that names you the peace keeping force of the balkans and the major factor of its stability, I only found this:

"Albania has played a largely helpful role in managing inter-ethnic tensions in southeastern Europe"

which is far from what you posted here and somewhere else also. So please, if you have any hard evidence, post it. Otherwise stop being the one that is spreading lies and accusing others for doing so on top.

@6 Al

" It is obvious they were two different entities; there was no Greek blood in him."

Lol.... Right. Let me guess. He was albanian!!!!

Nikita, if you are not happy to see the fake slavo-macedonian country to disindegrate, it is just your opinion and I respect it. I am sure the majority of the greek people - especially the macedonians - agree with me and not with you.

Anyway, save your energy and your time, (by considering the frequency and mostly the size of your answers, it seems you have a lot of both of them (evergy and time)...), to give to the people you should give too. I am sure you have a lot of interesting things to tell them, and I would also like to read them as I usually do.

I am sure you understand the "spirit" of my previous answer, so it's pointless to waste your time replying to me, and not to the people you should reply to.

I suggest that greece changes its name to Macedonia if the relevant name is so important, after all the name MACEDONIA derives from ancient times though the name greece/hellas is relatively new in comparison. I dont recall any nations named greece/hellas in ancient history hence why not change the name? Hehe then we can have upper & lower macedonias! Pavle, if we are going to disintegrate at the hands of the albanian then why do u bother with your posts? Why not sit back and relax and watch it unfold? Yet you persist? I think its best if you go away, their is no logic in your thought process, just hatred! We are happy to here any fair and mature arguments e.g nikitas, but people like you are a waste of time! After all we are all orthodox!

@13 Napred

"after all the name MACEDONIA derives from ancient times though the name greece/hellas is relatively new in comparison"
Ehmmmm no. They are equally old, although Hellas might be even older. "Greece" is a latin language definition based on older name, although that one too is deriving from ancient greek scripts.
Besides, if you dont recall any nation called Hellas in the past, then you obviously havent read what is important. And to finish once and for all with this argument. Its one thing "a nation" and another "a country".
And in any case, realise this please. Makedonia as also Thessalia, Crete, Peloponissos, Thraki, Epiros, and all islands, are vital parts of the country's heritage, history, tradition etc etc. There is no logic in your argument at all, since we are not fighting for our country's name but for our history and part of our fatherland.

"After all we are all orthodox!"
After all, this has nothing to do with politics. Lol... and to think that WE are accused of being a theocratic society :)

FYROM is a Satellite of XYugoslavia without Identity and future.They want to steal the "Macedonia" name, which is Greek for Centuries.Few studies lately became public,that Organize Crime controls FYROM & Kosovo ;no surprise ! The biggest problem in Greece and Europe today in different crimes are the Albanians.