Socialists, Democrats in official talks

who the hell is markovic a man with 2 seats dictating serbias future ,nice going tadic true french serb god help us

like i said right after the elections, do not underestimate the sps' capacity to harm serbia's vital interests. this will be one of the more shameful periods in our history. a government with only the purpose to facilitate our enemies who are trying to break up and destroy our country, and in the process let sps make a lot of money. also its a government that will last precisely for as long as it takes to fulfil that goal. serbia is entering political turmoil.
albanians, i hope you realize the significance of this. i congratulate you. nato fought the war for you, now tadic will finish your battle by political means. i think a tadic boulevard, or at least a statue in pristina is in order :) when you ethnically cleanse the 40 remaining serbs in the town, you can always point to tadic and say multiculturalism is alive :))

Well, I think the lack of principles of SPS is astonishing. Does SPS accept that DS was right to extradict ex - president Milosevic? Does it think that its policies in nineties was the cause of Balkan wars and the western intervention through sanctions and air strikes was justified?
Serbia will join EU only as a junior partner, as subordinate. EU is in economic crisis nd Serbia will receive much less economic assistance than expected. Besides, the complete opening of the economy will eliminate much of the domestic industry. EU will also ask for freedom of competiition, abolishment of stat monopolies and reduction of the state intervention. How in this situation will the government with the participation of SPS reduce social inequalities and increase the standard of living of the most impoverished is a mystery.

smile thats odd, I distinctly remember you telling me that SPS would not join the DS led coalition. What was that about?

So after all this time finally we come to the point when SPS stop messing around, and about time too. It seems in Serbia as if we are constantly waiting for something.

I think the greatest significance of all this is the message that patriotism (SPS, JS) is mercilessly abused by certain political parties, and then as soon as they get a sniff of power or money it becomes apparent that this is just to deceive the easily manipulated.

I will never forget the fake tantrum that Kostunica staged after the Milosevic extradition. He complained (does he know how to do anything else?!) but behind the scenes had agreed to it.

But actions speak louder than words, did he resign, did he leave the government because the Milosevic extradition was illegal? Of course not.

Then there was the more recent flirtation with SRS and the parliamentary speaker affair with Nikolic.

And yet some people still choose to believe in him!

In the end patriotism is shown by actions, not by words. And as long as people choose to believe cheap talk they will continue to lie to us.

Until we solve this primary problem in Serbia there will be no chance of holding Tadic to account for his shortcomings. Why? Because those that talk about this still believe in fairy stories. What we need are hard headed criticisms of Tadic / DS / G17. We need to hear about future PM Cvetkovic and his relationship with the business lobby and how this might damage the country.

No chance, instead we will only hear 'traitor' and 'Kosovo'. Someday the scratched record will change.
When it does the politicians won't be able to get away with things so easily.

Something is not right here. The body language of the SPS-PUPS-JS crew was demoralized like they are signing a deal with the devil. In Serbia it is an insult not to look someone in the eye when you shake their hand or toast a drink. None of the Coalition Three had the heart to look Tadic in the eye. To me it seems like Tadic is blackmailing them and using every dirty trick he has up his sleeve to stay in power. Time will tell but least the following week will be very interesting in Belgrade.

Bganon,

rest assured if DSS-NS and SRS are now in opposition they will stand to their principled position that Serbia with Kosovo can only enter the EU. Elections when they come again will be long before any admission in the EU now that Lisbon treaty is in tatters - ah but then that is not what D yeS to all that the EUrope demands have led you to believe but that is their promise to you and those who belived in promises form "friends of Serbia" advisors and their electorate may well be dissapointed by the result - remeber they said definitly candidate this year, admission by 1st Jan 2012 and deceived over upholding Serbia's soverignty when they mean Serbia in EU what exactly do they mean - is it with or without ???

Because Belguim FM was very clear on this point!

Next time there wont be a hogging of Europe by one list. Serbia is in Europe and all parties wish to be part of it even the SRS and DSS-NS but its a matter of principle over what exactly do the "friends of Serbia" mean when asking for pen to paper, sign here on the dotted line - is it with or without, is it as an "equal" partner or unequal and is it with pride or humilation????

Lets see in the next week or two if this coalition of 10 parties comes about since SPS-PUPS-JS are only now "officially" entering talks. They will have much to consider if the SPS-PUPS-JS truly were principled in only having talks now but the rumour mill said otherwise. Least of all they must consider what SAA ratification by Serbia means without a clear and unequivocal caveat that Serbia ratifies on the basis of its UN recognised sovereign territorial integrity - that is all that DS-NS and SRS wanted! If they did this caveat for SAA ratification then I couldnt comprehend what else held back the formation with SRS and DSS-NS other then "promises" from the likes of "friends of Serbia" that its not in Serbia's interest!

Also note that Bans "proposal" was not adopeted by the UN SC so what are the EU upto in the next few days still pushing through their non-sanctioned mission to implement a non-nmandated Ahtisaari failed plan? Moreover what is Tadic doing to stop this in its tracks now or is his hand tied by his "friends of Serbia" and they collude in this deceit???

All these matter will neeed to be comprehend by the SPS coalition and actions to uphold Serrbia's soverignty will be tested in the next week to come so SPS need not rush into any decision till they have clarity of principles and upholding Soverignty or a clear perspective of colluding in the deceit. The goverenemnet does not need to be formed in haste since there is much that 10 different parties must ascertain to be certain of a stable and lasting government - unless of course that is the intention and then the result according to former DS PM Zivkovic;

"“some younger people who voted for the Socialist Party of Serbia (SPS) will realize that Europe is the future, and they will change sides. The SPS’s current position, where it was choosing which coalition to join, was the result of a coincidence as. They do not have the democratic capacity to help Serbia enter the EU any quicker."

Bganon,
You have been reminded of what Belguim FM De Gucht believes but wish to brush it under the carpet and suggest who is he & he has no authority. However, you know it only takes one counrty in the EU to unsettle things. I thank the Irish electorate for highlighting the highly undemocratic nature of the EU technocratas who patronise and condescendly tell the educated masses that they are wrong and must and will vote again till they get it right i.e. you will vote the way we decide is best - you'd think this was a communist diktat!!!

Bganon,
you can brush De Gucht Belguim FM honesty under the carpet and live in denial but the writing is on the wall (or should one say internet) and already those "friendly advisors" are rubbing their sweaty palms knowing what such a frankenstein (aptly named by ZK UK) coalition means;

"The ultra-nationalist Serbian Radical Party and the Democratic Party of Serbia, led by Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica, have pledged to oppose closer EU ties unless the union recognizes Kosovo as an integral part of Serbia. President Tadic and his supporters want to continue the EU integration process regardless of the status of Kosovo."
http://voanews.com/english/2008-06-22-voa9.cfm

Is this something the SPS agree with or can agree with ???

It certainly is how such a frankenstein coalition goverenment is pereceived by the diktats of these so called "friends of Serbia".

Such a Frankenstein coalition created by words of "advice" from the likes of UK ambssadors who also bombed in Serbia's best interest - I highlight the UK becuse I fully comprehend the UK perspective and you cant deny that and brush it under the carpet for when a UK Ambassador advises he does not do so in Serbia's interets but in the interets of Queen and country alone!

Thus the "frinds of Serbia (Solano former head of NATO being one of the best buddies) fully understands what such a frankenstein coalition is being created for - Partitioned Serbia in EU and that will be the expectation of "friends of Serbia" such as wordworth, Solano Polt etc....

But then you don't care "your alright jack" because you will get your visaless ticket out of Serbia believing the "promise" of 30 picies of silver will lead to ever more - but you won't ever get even the 30 peices - maybe a couple or two pieces of copper if you work hard picking cabbages in some foreign fields or wiping behinds in an old peoples care home just like the Poles and other East Europeans have been useful for in the UK.

ZK I hope such a frankenstein coalition does not deter your return in August. I would urge you to continue with your plans a pace. You are not alone in such preparedness - so many that I know have already in recent times done what you plan and many more plan and are preparing for the same - the return and renewal of Serbia has begun and that Serbia is whole for Kosovo is Serbia, Serbia is Kosovo!

Bganon,

"I'm alright jack" - touched a nerve did it?

"but you deny visa's even, to the Serbian people. "

Frankly I find it bizarre that you hold me responsible for visa regulations set up by indivdual national governments!

I think you will find that the EU imposed visa controls on Serbia not I and the same for all other controls. As for the US well they still had visa restrictions for many of the recent EU member states so that shows their inconsistancy in how they choose to treat the EU itself! I think you'll find that many other countries outside the EU do have visa controls on UK passport holders too so dont be so quick to believe the grass is always greener!

As for the Serbian Govt that might be formed well sure I accept what ever happens since that is the way of democracy. You see I dont hold onto the EUcrats version of democracy (not unlike Tadic's "friends of Serbia" - Solano, Barosso, Rehn, Rupel etc..) who seem to see democracy as acceptable only when the "right" choice has finally been made - a la Lisbon treaty and all others in the past!

That said I don't have to agree that I believe Double Standards (DS) is in the best interst of Serbia as a whole. Especially given the very public external meddling it would seem "advice" over what is in the best interest of other countries comes before that of Serbia!!! But then I guess your "alright Jack" with that too - of course you suggest you have a socialist heart but the mind seems well and truly rooted in individulistic capitalist consumersism - thats fine by me - we all have our own perspectives but theres no point denying it from yourself!

Oh on the S some times I start writing Serbian but in the haste of posting clearly make errors and more then likely will - sure some times I look back on a post that is published and realise I made a total pigs ear of my spelling! Also I don't always look back over the last few days so ist not that I am ignoring your response but its just that I failed to look back and review and actually never saw it.

Prinip 'Belguim FM', 'Sovereignty', 'Kosovo', EU, '30 pieces of silver', 'Zivkovic''Solana' supposed 'friends of Serbia'.... tra la la....

Really you could just post the above words and we could fill in the gaps.

And you don't listen to my replies, you just repeat yourself over and over again, so there is no point in my responding to them any more. I told you ages an indisputable fact that sovereignty is not spelled with a large S but you can't even take that on board. So tell me is there any chance that you will take on board other points?

It seems that you are the one who has trouble moving on and facing reality. The reality is that SPS and DS will make a deal and form a government and no amount of name calling or repeating oneself can stop it.

And you tell me that its a case of you're alright jack. I would never have said that about you, but ok lets talk about it. Yeah, its fine for you to be able to travel around the world with a British passport, but you deny visa's even, to the Serbian people. So it is legitimate for British citizens to travel around the world but Serbs that want to do so are traitors of some kind. Talk about double standards, talk about selfish.

smile thats odd, I distinctly remember you telling me that SPS would not join the DS led coalition. What was that about?

So after all this time finally we come to the point when SPS stop messing around, and about time too. It seems in Serbia as if we are constantly waiting for something.

I think the greatest significance of all this is the message that patriotism (SPS, JS) is mercilessly abused by certain political parties, and then as soon as they get a sniff of power or money it becomes apparent that this is just to deceive the easily manipulated.

I will never forget the fake tantrum that Kostunica staged after the Milosevic extradition. He complained (does he know how to do anything else?!) but behind the scenes had agreed to it.

But actions speak louder than words, did he resign, did he leave the government because the Milosevic extradition was illegal? Of course not.

Then there was the more recent flirtation with SRS and the parliamentary speaker affair with Nikolic.

And yet some people still choose to believe in him!

In the end patriotism is shown by actions, not by words. And as long as people choose to believe cheap talk they will continue to lie to us.

Until we solve this primary problem in Serbia there will be no chance of holding Tadic to account for his shortcomings. Why? Because those that talk about this still believe in fairy stories. What we need are hard headed criticisms of Tadic / DS / G17. We need to hear about future PM Cvetkovic and his relationship with the business lobby and how this might damage the country.

No chance, instead we will only hear 'traitor' and 'Kosovo'. Someday the scratched record will change.
When it does the politicians won't be able to get away with things so easily.

who the hell is markovic a man with 2 seats dictating serbias future ,nice going tadic true french serb god help us

like i said right after the elections, do not underestimate the sps' capacity to harm serbia's vital interests. this will be one of the more shameful periods in our history. a government with only the purpose to facilitate our enemies who are trying to break up and destroy our country, and in the process let sps make a lot of money. also its a government that will last precisely for as long as it takes to fulfil that goal. serbia is entering political turmoil.
albanians, i hope you realize the significance of this. i congratulate you. nato fought the war for you, now tadic will finish your battle by political means. i think a tadic boulevard, or at least a statue in pristina is in order :) when you ethnically cleanse the 40 remaining serbs in the town, you can always point to tadic and say multiculturalism is alive :))

Well, I think the lack of principles of SPS is astonishing. Does SPS accept that DS was right to extradict ex - president Milosevic? Does it think that its policies in nineties was the cause of Balkan wars and the western intervention through sanctions and air strikes was justified?
Serbia will join EU only as a junior partner, as subordinate. EU is in economic crisis nd Serbia will receive much less economic assistance than expected. Besides, the complete opening of the economy will eliminate much of the domestic industry. EU will also ask for freedom of competiition, abolishment of stat monopolies and reduction of the state intervention. How in this situation will the government with the participation of SPS reduce social inequalities and increase the standard of living of the most impoverished is a mystery.

Something is not right here. The body language of the SPS-PUPS-JS crew was demoralized like they are signing a deal with the devil. In Serbia it is an insult not to look someone in the eye when you shake their hand or toast a drink. None of the Coalition Three had the heart to look Tadic in the eye. To me it seems like Tadic is blackmailing them and using every dirty trick he has up his sleeve to stay in power. Time will tell but least the following week will be very interesting in Belgrade.

Bganon,

rest assured if DSS-NS and SRS are now in opposition they will stand to their principled position that Serbia with Kosovo can only enter the EU. Elections when they come again will be long before any admission in the EU now that Lisbon treaty is in tatters - ah but then that is not what D yeS to all that the EUrope demands have led you to believe but that is their promise to you and those who belived in promises form "friends of Serbia" advisors and their electorate may well be dissapointed by the result - remeber they said definitly candidate this year, admission by 1st Jan 2012 and deceived over upholding Serbia's soverignty when they mean Serbia in EU what exactly do they mean - is it with or without ???

Because Belguim FM was very clear on this point!

Next time there wont be a hogging of Europe by one list. Serbia is in Europe and all parties wish to be part of it even the SRS and DSS-NS but its a matter of principle over what exactly do the "friends of Serbia" mean when asking for pen to paper, sign here on the dotted line - is it with or without, is it as an "equal" partner or unequal and is it with pride or humilation????

Lets see in the next week or two if this coalition of 10 parties comes about since SPS-PUPS-JS are only now "officially" entering talks. They will have much to consider if the SPS-PUPS-JS truly were principled in only having talks now but the rumour mill said otherwise. Least of all they must consider what SAA ratification by Serbia means without a clear and unequivocal caveat that Serbia ratifies on the basis of its UN recognised sovereign territorial integrity - that is all that DS-NS and SRS wanted! If they did this caveat for SAA ratification then I couldnt comprehend what else held back the formation with SRS and DSS-NS other then "promises" from the likes of "friends of Serbia" that its not in Serbia's interest!

Also note that Bans "proposal" was not adopeted by the UN SC so what are the EU upto in the next few days still pushing through their non-sanctioned mission to implement a non-nmandated Ahtisaari failed plan? Moreover what is Tadic doing to stop this in its tracks now or is his hand tied by his "friends of Serbia" and they collude in this deceit???

All these matter will neeed to be comprehend by the SPS coalition and actions to uphold Serrbia's soverignty will be tested in the next week to come so SPS need not rush into any decision till they have clarity of principles and upholding Soverignty or a clear perspective of colluding in the deceit. The goverenemnet does not need to be formed in haste since there is much that 10 different parties must ascertain to be certain of a stable and lasting government - unless of course that is the intention and then the result according to former DS PM Zivkovic;

"“some younger people who voted for the Socialist Party of Serbia (SPS) will realize that Europe is the future, and they will change sides. The SPS’s current position, where it was choosing which coalition to join, was the result of a coincidence as. They do not have the democratic capacity to help Serbia enter the EU any quicker."

Bganon,
You have been reminded of what Belguim FM De Gucht believes but wish to brush it under the carpet and suggest who is he & he has no authority. However, you know it only takes one counrty in the EU to unsettle things. I thank the Irish electorate for highlighting the highly undemocratic nature of the EU technocratas who patronise and condescendly tell the educated masses that they are wrong and must and will vote again till they get it right i.e. you will vote the way we decide is best - you'd think this was a communist diktat!!!

Bganon,
you can brush De Gucht Belguim FM honesty under the carpet and live in denial but the writing is on the wall (or should one say internet) and already those "friendly advisors" are rubbing their sweaty palms knowing what such a frankenstein (aptly named by ZK UK) coalition means;

"The ultra-nationalist Serbian Radical Party and the Democratic Party of Serbia, led by Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica, have pledged to oppose closer EU ties unless the union recognizes Kosovo as an integral part of Serbia. President Tadic and his supporters want to continue the EU integration process regardless of the status of Kosovo."
http://voanews.com/english/2008-06-22-voa9.cfm

Is this something the SPS agree with or can agree with ???

It certainly is how such a frankenstein coalition goverenment is pereceived by the diktats of these so called "friends of Serbia".

Such a Frankenstein coalition created by words of "advice" from the likes of UK ambssadors who also bombed in Serbia's best interest - I highlight the UK becuse I fully comprehend the UK perspective and you cant deny that and brush it under the carpet for when a UK Ambassador advises he does not do so in Serbia's interets but in the interets of Queen and country alone!

Thus the "frinds of Serbia (Solano former head of NATO being one of the best buddies) fully understands what such a frankenstein coalition is being created for - Partitioned Serbia in EU and that will be the expectation of "friends of Serbia" such as wordworth, Solano Polt etc....

But then you don't care "your alright jack" because you will get your visaless ticket out of Serbia believing the "promise" of 30 picies of silver will lead to ever more - but you won't ever get even the 30 peices - maybe a couple or two pieces of copper if you work hard picking cabbages in some foreign fields or wiping behinds in an old peoples care home just like the Poles and other East Europeans have been useful for in the UK.

ZK I hope such a frankenstein coalition does not deter your return in August. I would urge you to continue with your plans a pace. You are not alone in such preparedness - so many that I know have already in recent times done what you plan and many more plan and are preparing for the same - the return and renewal of Serbia has begun and that Serbia is whole for Kosovo is Serbia, Serbia is Kosovo!

Prinip 'Belguim FM', 'Sovereignty', 'Kosovo', EU, '30 pieces of silver', 'Zivkovic''Solana' supposed 'friends of Serbia'.... tra la la....

Really you could just post the above words and we could fill in the gaps.

And you don't listen to my replies, you just repeat yourself over and over again, so there is no point in my responding to them any more. I told you ages an indisputable fact that sovereignty is not spelled with a large S but you can't even take that on board. So tell me is there any chance that you will take on board other points?

It seems that you are the one who has trouble moving on and facing reality. The reality is that SPS and DS will make a deal and form a government and no amount of name calling or repeating oneself can stop it.

And you tell me that its a case of you're alright jack. I would never have said that about you, but ok lets talk about it. Yeah, its fine for you to be able to travel around the world with a British passport, but you deny visa's even, to the Serbian people. So it is legitimate for British citizens to travel around the world but Serbs that want to do so are traitors of some kind. Talk about double standards, talk about selfish.

Bganon,

"I'm alright jack" - touched a nerve did it?

"but you deny visa's even, to the Serbian people. "

Frankly I find it bizarre that you hold me responsible for visa regulations set up by indivdual national governments!

I think you will find that the EU imposed visa controls on Serbia not I and the same for all other controls. As for the US well they still had visa restrictions for many of the recent EU member states so that shows their inconsistancy in how they choose to treat the EU itself! I think you'll find that many other countries outside the EU do have visa controls on UK passport holders too so dont be so quick to believe the grass is always greener!

As for the Serbian Govt that might be formed well sure I accept what ever happens since that is the way of democracy. You see I dont hold onto the EUcrats version of democracy (not unlike Tadic's "friends of Serbia" - Solano, Barosso, Rehn, Rupel etc..) who seem to see democracy as acceptable only when the "right" choice has finally been made - a la Lisbon treaty and all others in the past!

That said I don't have to agree that I believe Double Standards (DS) is in the best interst of Serbia as a whole. Especially given the very public external meddling it would seem "advice" over what is in the best interest of other countries comes before that of Serbia!!! But then I guess your "alright Jack" with that too - of course you suggest you have a socialist heart but the mind seems well and truly rooted in individulistic capitalist consumersism - thats fine by me - we all have our own perspectives but theres no point denying it from yourself!

Oh on the S some times I start writing Serbian but in the haste of posting clearly make errors and more then likely will - sure some times I look back on a post that is published and realise I made a total pigs ear of my spelling! Also I don't always look back over the last few days so ist not that I am ignoring your response but its just that I failed to look back and review and actually never saw it.