Priština: Montenegro to recognize soon

I think that this cannot possibly occur; I know this because I am Montengrin and know that Kosovo is of immense importance and that what has occured since Albanian sepratism gained backing from the west purely for its own imperialistic goals is completely unacceptable and unjust.

We actually have posters who are naive enough to believe that some sort of justice has occured and that the cleansing of Serbs and non-Albanians from the province of Kosovo and Metohija is a foundation for a sovereign state? And all this because the Yugoslav government tried to combat terrorists in it's own country!

Sorry to burst your bubble guys but "kosova" has been created and allowed to be created purely because of the US's wish to control the stratigic Balkans and create oil pipelines etc..

Anyone with common sense can understand this so could you guys please stop leaving posts which suggest somehow that "kosova" is a flourishing country which has been freed from the chains of its very creators!

That would be the very right step in contribution towards peace and stability in the region. It would also that the tiny Mongenegro Republic has got vision and the will to move realistically towards our common future in EU.

The Montenegran government only need to look at this map to know where its interests lie. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Montenegroetno03.png There is quite a bit of blue on it.

But whatever happens, it will make little difference as independence is blocked at both the UN and EU. It will only demonstrate whether Montenegro is a free nation or just another servant.

It took a while until it happened !!!
Kosovo is newest country in the World!
We are in a long, difficult and very interesting process!
There is no way back!
The biggest task of us K.Albanians is to make sure that other non-Albanians in Kosovo have a life!
It will be hard but achievable,with right attitude and hard work,we will be just fine!
And in few years Serbia will forget Kosovo(not completely),accept the reality and move towards Europe!
After all that's we we want!

Malta next....I watched his interview in English on Alsat TV http://www.alsat.tv/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2342&Itemid=57

Malta is expected to be the 21st EU country that will recognise Kosovo's independence. The confirmation has come from the Foreign Minister of Malta Tonio Borg during the european summit in Bruxelle. "We are discussing the issue at the Commission of Foreign Affairs and I can tell you that the wind is blowing in the right direction" said Borg.

A question for the Serbian panel.

What did the minister mean by "wind is blowing in the right direction"?
a) recognition of Kosova's independence
b)non recognition of Kosovo's independence.

Ps. I hope that B92 will accept my translation as a genuine one)

Montenegro is being counted on to do the right thing, and recognizing their neighbor's freedom and independence is just that.Montenegro's national interest in having a close and friendly relationship with over 7 milion Albanians in the Balkans surpasses Serbia's region status decline.Go with the winner!

Vuče,...

don´t worry...

they are either clutching at every straw in their desperate illusion of being "someone" ( in the community of real countries..) or they are just simply naive believing what they´re being told.

and guys like "louie" who are writing "there is no way back" will be very disappointed, once they realize that there wasn´t even a start...

but nevertheless, one thing you´ve pointed out quite right: no matter how the bootlickers in the Podgorica-government decide, ...it won´t change much, except they will lose their last bit of honor and respect in the population, since Montenegrins are serbian by their ethnicity.

just as a sidenote: many Montenegrins are not so satisfied with watching plates and posters with "financed by US-Aid" on them.

Montengro is on the verge...and the Americans know that..

Dream! Dream! Dream! Albanians it is FREE. you claimed it before that Macedonia and Greece will recognize kosovo but it did not. so just continue to dream. UNSC will block kosovo!!!!

Vuk; the only imperialism in regards to Albanians in Montenegro is that which occurred from 1878-1912 when Montenegro (backed by Russia) annexed a large tract of northern Albania, thereby doubling in size. Albanians just want equal rights in Montenegro, however, not their own state!

ZK UK, you're right. This will prove that Montenegro is not a servant to its former masters Serbia and Russia, but instead a free nation which chooses to accept the reality of the world, determined to invest in a stable Balkans, by accepting Kosovo's independence!

(azir your a funny guy you say there is 7 million albanians in the balkans but did you know just in serbia there is about 8 million serbs, and in all in the balkans there is over 10 million serbs+ you do the math, and i am a montenegrin but A SERB ...

Matthew, I agree with you in that Kosova gets to recover lost lands illegaly occupied by the Slavs. The indigenous Albanians historical and ancestrial homeland reunification is NOT open to being traded. Since the entire world know the Slavs arrived to find Albanian inhabitants we can not possibly give away land to the slavs any more than they already took from us. Justice and history is on our side.Albanians were always victimized ;please... We will never again accept the role of being victims!

@Matthew:

Interesting ideas...and I completely believe you have the best intentions as well as a great outlook to a better future for the region.

However, you can see by Azir's post that too many Albanians are not interested in a regional better future, but only their own national interests, which is getting unrealistically greedier all the time.

Montenegrin recognition of the UDI will not help make the situation any more peaceful then giving the Sudetenland to the Germans was before WWII. Moreover, Albanians are not interested in trading land with Serbs and Montenegrins(Srbi) because they are under the mistaken impression that they are going to someday in the future have it given to them anyways.

Getting away with they have done in Kosovo has only wet their appetite.

However, the Albanians should remember what happened to them in Presevo when they tried the same game plan from Kosovo. The Serbs easily chased the Albanian thugs away while NATO looked on. That's because the international community does not want things to go any further than have already.

I'm not against land swaps mind you, but let's face it everytime the balkan players come close to making a deal, the internationals will simply intervene to make sure nothing gets settled or only settled the way they want it to.

Recognize..,whatever,before you recognize yourself as a part of Serbia my dear Montenegro..

Kosovo is Serbia!
Montenegro is Serbia!

Those "colorful western years" will end soon,anyway..Think about comming back home my dear Montenegro!

I'll proclaim my property in Montenegro as a part of Serbian soil,as I feel..Do you know my dear Montenegro how many we are,can do that?! We own you!!

Montenegro is Serbia!

Azir: You are not fooling anyone. The last thing you are interested in is equal rights and freedom of oppression.

The ancesteral homeland reunification lie you speak of, otherwise known as greater Albania is not inevitable. In fact, the irony of the UDI for the Albanians is it put the nail in the coffin on the idea of greater Albania. I haven't seen any NATO bombing of Macedonian or Serb troops recently, and without that air or other support from NATO don't get your hopes up for any military victory.

Furthermore, Macedonians, Greeks, Montenegrins, and Serbs are completely aware of what you want, and none of them are about to make the same mistake as Tito and give you anymore autonomous provinces.

ciao!

>> Montenegro gives Bar to Kosovo BUT gets Pec and Decani in return.

In principle I agree to redrawing. It would end all the claims. FYROM is the next problem, Albanians will be 40% in 5-10 years and it may be in FYROM's interest to let them go and join Kosova and in 5-10 years Albania. Also, Presevo and Ulcinj need to solved, they are almost 100% Albanian.

Montengro should never forget that Malesoret fought with you for ages (and later against you).

Probably about 30% of Fyrom would go with Kosova and together they'll make a decent sized state. Let's do it.

What Would Njegos Say?

My fellow Montenegrins, should we turn our back on our culture and our history and our epic poetry that helped to define what is and what is not a Serb?

It was our deeds and our actions that kept the Serbian dream alive under the long dark night of the Turkish yoke.

It was our love of Kosovo that gave us the strength to survive and even thrive as a nation and defined who and what we are.

I am proud of my people and support Montenegro’s independence, yet recognition of the UDI would seem to go against everything that makes a Montenegrin a Montenegrin traditionally.

The Serbs are our brothers and we should be there to support them in their hour of need.

However, that being said, I also believe the Albanians are our cousins and that we share cultural and clan ties to one another.

I believe ONLY Montenegro is capable of working with both sides in trying to find a real compromise solution that satisfies everyone.

I say its time for a major re-organization of the region.

Presevo and parts of Macedonia to Kosovo.

Serbia gets RS and parts of Montenegro.

Montenegro gives Bar to Kosovo BUT gets Pec and Decani in return.

A swap of Pec/Decani for Bar makes a LOT of sense. Kosovo would have a real port, and Montenegro being a tourist based economy and already the keeper of some of the holiest sites in Serbian Orthodoxy would be the IDEAL keepers of Pec/Decani.

Montenegro should and could be a key player in negotiations having worked with both Serbs and Albanians for centuries.

Ataman,

As a Californian I strongly support the return of our land to the native population which will very soon be in the majority.

Its in my best interest. Think how rich we Californians would be. California on its own would have one of the largest economies in the world and we wouldn’t be burdened with endless military costs or paying for other states to get Federal subsidities. My quality of life would become amazing.

Regardless you’re missing the point. Globalization is coming and the old Wilsonian view of the Right to Self Determination needs to change. In order for Serbs (Albanians etc) to have their voice heard in a democractic borderless Europe, they will need to be able to vote as a block instead of having their voice diluted and muffled by dividing them amoung the various countries of the region.

Everyone else is concerned about the here and now, I thinking about what’s going to happen next. What kind of future do you want for the planet.

The Tosk/Gheg divide and issues over its usage in Kosovo are fascinating. I do strongly believe we are witness to a new identity forming in the Balkans.

I never had such laugh in my whole life...hahaha...redrawing lines on the balkan map?Someone stated that Presevo should be in Kosovo, Macedonian part should be in Kosovo ahahahaha.Why do you think that Albanians should get the land where there are the majority?Because you are majority there?Ohh man.This is so good to hear.And we Italians stood at your side?Stupid Italian government.

These same media a month ago claimed Montenegro would recognize June 16 and Macedonia on June 1.

Kosovo is Serbia!
Montenegro is Serbia!

Those "colorful western years" will end soon,anyway..Think about comming back home my dear Montenegro!

I'll proclaim my property in Montenegro as a part of Serbian soil,as I feel..Do you know my dear Montenegro how many we are,can do that?! We own you!!

Montenegro is Serbia!
(Zoran Paljevic, 22 June 2008 00:30)

This says all.
Kosovo is Serbia!
Montenegro is Serbia!
Macedonia is Serbia!
Bosnia is Serbia!
Croatia is Serbia!
Whole world is Serbia.
It is about time when whole world is fed up with Serbia.

My beliefs are clear, the Right to Self Determination for all peoples of the Balkans wherever they live and whoever they are, plus a little horse trading and allowances for regions that have sacred meaning for a people.
(Matthew, 22 June 2008 00:24)

Matthew, this sounds very nice but somewhat naive. Let's do few steps further and give everyone the right of self-determination. Give it to Gheg-Albanians and Tosk-Albanians. Give it to California, Texas, Vermont. Give it to the entire Latin-American community within USA, so they can create small (or large) pocket-states. Give it to Flandrians and Vallons, so there won't be any Belgian PM who would complain about Serbia. And that's the begin only.

In the reality, division creates a lot of poverty, economic ties being broken, populist, nationalist poison spilling over the communities and so on. Things like transportation, banking, education, health care, defense need to be not divided. Want to see a sample?

Here it is. Buy a train ticket from Sezana to Gevgelija. Do you know how much it is? I tell you: precisely 128.40 Euro for 1342 km. This is a shock... Do you know why is it so expensive? Because of many borders and every single company (SZ, HZ, ZS, MZ) beginning to charge a new INTERNATIONAL tariff at their border, usually twice (sometimes three times) as high as their domestic tariff. What would be if it would be only one country? Probably 40-50 Euro at worst. Who loses? The customer who travels. The customer who buys goods. And so on. You would argue: "hey, there could be low-cost airlines". And I would argue: these destroy the environment. You probably know, the entire Sezana-Tabanovci rail segment is under electric power. Guess, what is really cheaper for the country and envronment: a train with electric or an airplane? (Don't forget to add to the "pleasure" the taxi to/from the airport, the $5-$10 / Gallon fuel, "fun" having body search and so on)

Will turn out: from the transportation point of view the division of Jugoslavia is a disaster for the customer. Since people buy goods every day, the new borders also mean a disaster for the customer. Now wonder, how much goes down the tube just because of national pride. And how much goes in the pockets of the people who actually pray on the "benefits" of the division.

Maybe the entire division was just that: some had benefits... and how many normal people die is irrelevant?

I PERSONALLY believe that Serbia claiming montenegro is not true. I think it should be agreed on that Montenegro was in some ways independent of the Ottomans while Serbia was not. But to my point, while CG is not a part of Serbia territorially (ethnically, culturally we are the SAME people), Kosmet is. I think that an objective analysis of the formation of communist Yugoslavia would reveal that Serbia, as the biggest "ethnicity" was de centralized to create more balance in the proposed "utopian society".

On the topic of recognition, it would not surpirse me if Dukanovic & co recognized kosovo. Remember, these were the same hard-line SERBIAN nationalists during the war who supported Milosevic. I still believe that the people of montenegro will fully support their brothers throughout this ordeal.

OBJECTIVITY is paramount when discussing these topics.

How many lies and phoney rumors have we heard from the K-Albos before? The Crna Gora leadership will be the last nation on earth to recognize Kosovo.

Nicholas Klinsmen;according to you, if Albanians demand equal rights and freedom from oppression, you consider them "thugs". What do you call Karadzic, Mladic, Arkan, Milosevic, Seshil, and numerous other Serb war criminals still out there evading justice? Do you assume that Albanians don't want a better future? Wanting a eventual and inevitable regional family reunion will only stablize and promote harmony in partnership with the EU.To you it's "greed" if Albanians needs aren't met but ,as always, Serbs aggression is overlooked. You call yourself a fair and unbiased individual, I think not!

Azir,

My understanding is the Albanian word for Greek has a Slavic root. If that is truly the case, then common sense dictates your people could not have possibly lived in the area before the Slavs did.

I'm certainly open to the possibility that your people have been in Europe a very long time indeed, but wouldn't you agree that its highly improbable that your people were left untouched and completely unaffected by the great migrations that occurred in the area over the last 2000 years? The reality is, Serbs and Albanians here act exactly the same, so I personally don't see much of a difference, we're too mixed with one another for you to be making such bold statements and "undisputable" claims.

There doesn't appear to be any undisputable evidence that overwhelming supports your theory. Is may be a likely scenario, sure, but is the evidence really so strong that you can base such a wide sweeping international border on it? The truth is we really just don't know a whole lot.

Even if your ancestors lived in that area, clearly it was not the center of your civilization or help to form your identity as you know it at any point in the past as it was for the Serbian people. Our very identity itself is tied to Kosovo, your do not have the same connection to the area.

It’s the same with the Jews. Most likely the Palestinians are the original inhabitants of the region, long before the Jews left Ur. Yet, Jerusalem is sacred to them because that is where they formed their identity and their greatest civilization in the past.

What is your stance on Jerusalem, and is it consistent with your beliefs in regards to Kosovo?

How does your thinking allow for a claim on Northern Kosovo, yet not the entire region?

Unless your beliefs and your conclusions can be applied across the board to all situations and all people, I think you may be biased towards your cause. I most certainly do not see you calling for RS or Krajina to be given to Serbia.

My beliefs are clear, the Right to Self Determination for all peoples of the Balkans wherever they live and whoever they are, plus a little horse trading and allowances for regions that have sacred meaning for a people.

Montenegro owes it's independence to the Albanians. If it wasn't for the Albos, their referendum to split from Serbia would've gone down the drain.

But whatever, Montenegro has been recruited to the Western clan so no one realistic doubts their recognition, only those who have been living in denial, like for instance when they were so defiant about Canada or Czech Republic not recognizing.

Nicholas Klinsman;are YOU completely aware that Serbia's involvement in 4 lost war was not merely a coincidence.

The Albanian word for Greek is: (surprise, surprise) "Grek." The fact that Illyrian words have remained in the Albanian language, and ancient Greek words have survived from their contact over 3,000 years ago, says something about the Albanian language.

Read the law formulated by J. Wackernagel in 1892 to learn about the oldest surviving Indo-European language!

This is really funny if like they state many of commentators here if montenegrians are serbians then why did they separeted from serbia as well obviously is not good to be together to live with them in same country.

@azir

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. If you read some actual history texts rather than Albanian propaganda articles you probably would know better.

It would have been interesting to see how well Albanians, Bosnian Muslims, and Croatians would have done against Serbs without all that NATO support militarily, economically, and politically.

The Presevo Valley in 2000 would give us all indication how well the Albanians would do.

That would be the very right step in contribution towards peace and stability in the region. It would also that the tiny Mongenegro Republic has got vision and the will to move realistically towards our common future in EU.

Montenegro is being counted on to do the right thing, and recognizing their neighbor's freedom and independence is just that.Montenegro's national interest in having a close and friendly relationship with over 7 milion Albanians in the Balkans surpasses Serbia's region status decline.Go with the winner!

It took a while until it happened !!!
Kosovo is newest country in the World!
We are in a long, difficult and very interesting process!
There is no way back!
The biggest task of us K.Albanians is to make sure that other non-Albanians in Kosovo have a life!
It will be hard but achievable,with right attitude and hard work,we will be just fine!
And in few years Serbia will forget Kosovo(not completely),accept the reality and move towards Europe!
After all that's we we want!

Malta next....I watched his interview in English on Alsat TV http://www.alsat.tv/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2342&Itemid=57

Malta is expected to be the 21st EU country that will recognise Kosovo's independence. The confirmation has come from the Foreign Minister of Malta Tonio Borg during the european summit in Bruxelle. "We are discussing the issue at the Commission of Foreign Affairs and I can tell you that the wind is blowing in the right direction" said Borg.

A question for the Serbian panel.

What did the minister mean by "wind is blowing in the right direction"?
a) recognition of Kosova's independence
b)non recognition of Kosovo's independence.

Ps. I hope that B92 will accept my translation as a genuine one)

Vuk; the only imperialism in regards to Albanians in Montenegro is that which occurred from 1878-1912 when Montenegro (backed by Russia) annexed a large tract of northern Albania, thereby doubling in size. Albanians just want equal rights in Montenegro, however, not their own state!

ZK UK, you're right. This will prove that Montenegro is not a servant to its former masters Serbia and Russia, but instead a free nation which chooses to accept the reality of the world, determined to invest in a stable Balkans, by accepting Kosovo's independence!

Matthew, I agree with you in that Kosova gets to recover lost lands illegaly occupied by the Slavs. The indigenous Albanians historical and ancestrial homeland reunification is NOT open to being traded. Since the entire world know the Slavs arrived to find Albanian inhabitants we can not possibly give away land to the slavs any more than they already took from us. Justice and history is on our side.Albanians were always victimized ;please... We will never again accept the role of being victims!

The Montenegran government only need to look at this map to know where its interests lie. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Montenegroetno03.png There is quite a bit of blue on it.

But whatever happens, it will make little difference as independence is blocked at both the UN and EU. It will only demonstrate whether Montenegro is a free nation or just another servant.

Recognize..,whatever,before you recognize yourself as a part of Serbia my dear Montenegro..

Kosovo is Serbia!
Montenegro is Serbia!

Those "colorful western years" will end soon,anyway..Think about comming back home my dear Montenegro!

I'll proclaim my property in Montenegro as a part of Serbian soil,as I feel..Do you know my dear Montenegro how many we are,can do that?! We own you!!

Montenegro is Serbia!

Nicholas Klinsmen;according to you, if Albanians demand equal rights and freedom from oppression, you consider them "thugs". What do you call Karadzic, Mladic, Arkan, Milosevic, Seshil, and numerous other Serb war criminals still out there evading justice? Do you assume that Albanians don't want a better future? Wanting a eventual and inevitable regional family reunion will only stablize and promote harmony in partnership with the EU.To you it's "greed" if Albanians needs aren't met but ,as always, Serbs aggression is overlooked. You call yourself a fair and unbiased individual, I think not!

@azir

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. If you read some actual history texts rather than Albanian propaganda articles you probably would know better.

It would have been interesting to see how well Albanians, Bosnian Muslims, and Croatians would have done against Serbs without all that NATO support militarily, economically, and politically.

The Presevo Valley in 2000 would give us all indication how well the Albanians would do.

What Would Njegos Say?

My fellow Montenegrins, should we turn our back on our culture and our history and our epic poetry that helped to define what is and what is not a Serb?

It was our deeds and our actions that kept the Serbian dream alive under the long dark night of the Turkish yoke.

It was our love of Kosovo that gave us the strength to survive and even thrive as a nation and defined who and what we are.

I am proud of my people and support Montenegro’s independence, yet recognition of the UDI would seem to go against everything that makes a Montenegrin a Montenegrin traditionally.

The Serbs are our brothers and we should be there to support them in their hour of need.

However, that being said, I also believe the Albanians are our cousins and that we share cultural and clan ties to one another.

I believe ONLY Montenegro is capable of working with both sides in trying to find a real compromise solution that satisfies everyone.

I say its time for a major re-organization of the region.

Presevo and parts of Macedonia to Kosovo.

Serbia gets RS and parts of Montenegro.

Montenegro gives Bar to Kosovo BUT gets Pec and Decani in return.

A swap of Pec/Decani for Bar makes a LOT of sense. Kosovo would have a real port, and Montenegro being a tourist based economy and already the keeper of some of the holiest sites in Serbian Orthodoxy would be the IDEAL keepers of Pec/Decani.

Montenegro should and could be a key player in negotiations having worked with both Serbs and Albanians for centuries.

>> Montenegro gives Bar to Kosovo BUT gets Pec and Decani in return.

In principle I agree to redrawing. It would end all the claims. FYROM is the next problem, Albanians will be 40% in 5-10 years and it may be in FYROM's interest to let them go and join Kosova and in 5-10 years Albania. Also, Presevo and Ulcinj need to solved, they are almost 100% Albanian.

Montengro should never forget that Malesoret fought with you for ages (and later against you).

Probably about 30% of Fyrom would go with Kosova and together they'll make a decent sized state. Let's do it.

Montenegro owes it's independence to the Albanians. If it wasn't for the Albos, their referendum to split from Serbia would've gone down the drain.

But whatever, Montenegro has been recruited to the Western clan so no one realistic doubts their recognition, only those who have been living in denial, like for instance when they were so defiant about Canada or Czech Republic not recognizing.

I think that this cannot possibly occur; I know this because I am Montengrin and know that Kosovo is of immense importance and that what has occured since Albanian sepratism gained backing from the west purely for its own imperialistic goals is completely unacceptable and unjust.

We actually have posters who are naive enough to believe that some sort of justice has occured and that the cleansing of Serbs and non-Albanians from the province of Kosovo and Metohija is a foundation for a sovereign state? And all this because the Yugoslav government tried to combat terrorists in it's own country!

Sorry to burst your bubble guys but "kosova" has been created and allowed to be created purely because of the US's wish to control the stratigic Balkans and create oil pipelines etc..

Anyone with common sense can understand this so could you guys please stop leaving posts which suggest somehow that "kosova" is a flourishing country which has been freed from the chains of its very creators!

Dream! Dream! Dream! Albanians it is FREE. you claimed it before that Macedonia and Greece will recognize kosovo but it did not. so just continue to dream. UNSC will block kosovo!!!!

This is really funny if like they state many of commentators here if montenegrians are serbians then why did they separeted from serbia as well obviously is not good to be together to live with them in same country.

These same media a month ago claimed Montenegro would recognize June 16 and Macedonia on June 1.

Azir: You are not fooling anyone. The last thing you are interested in is equal rights and freedom of oppression.

The ancesteral homeland reunification lie you speak of, otherwise known as greater Albania is not inevitable. In fact, the irony of the UDI for the Albanians is it put the nail in the coffin on the idea of greater Albania. I haven't seen any NATO bombing of Macedonian or Serb troops recently, and without that air or other support from NATO don't get your hopes up for any military victory.

Furthermore, Macedonians, Greeks, Montenegrins, and Serbs are completely aware of what you want, and none of them are about to make the same mistake as Tito and give you anymore autonomous provinces.

ciao!

Nicholas Klinsman;are YOU completely aware that Serbia's involvement in 4 lost war was not merely a coincidence.

Kosovo is Serbia!
Montenegro is Serbia!

Those "colorful western years" will end soon,anyway..Think about comming back home my dear Montenegro!

I'll proclaim my property in Montenegro as a part of Serbian soil,as I feel..Do you know my dear Montenegro how many we are,can do that?! We own you!!

Montenegro is Serbia!
(Zoran Paljevic, 22 June 2008 00:30)

This says all.
Kosovo is Serbia!
Montenegro is Serbia!
Macedonia is Serbia!
Bosnia is Serbia!
Croatia is Serbia!
Whole world is Serbia.
It is about time when whole world is fed up with Serbia.

The Albanian word for Greek is: (surprise, surprise) "Grek." The fact that Illyrian words have remained in the Albanian language, and ancient Greek words have survived from their contact over 3,000 years ago, says something about the Albanian language.

Read the law formulated by J. Wackernagel in 1892 to learn about the oldest surviving Indo-European language!

Vuče,...

don´t worry...

they are either clutching at every straw in their desperate illusion of being "someone" ( in the community of real countries..) or they are just simply naive believing what they´re being told.

and guys like "louie" who are writing "there is no way back" will be very disappointed, once they realize that there wasn´t even a start...

but nevertheless, one thing you´ve pointed out quite right: no matter how the bootlickers in the Podgorica-government decide, ...it won´t change much, except they will lose their last bit of honor and respect in the population, since Montenegrins are serbian by their ethnicity.

just as a sidenote: many Montenegrins are not so satisfied with watching plates and posters with "financed by US-Aid" on them.

Montengro is on the verge...and the Americans know that..

(azir your a funny guy you say there is 7 million albanians in the balkans but did you know just in serbia there is about 8 million serbs, and in all in the balkans there is over 10 million serbs+ you do the math, and i am a montenegrin but A SERB ...

Azir,

My understanding is the Albanian word for Greek has a Slavic root. If that is truly the case, then common sense dictates your people could not have possibly lived in the area before the Slavs did.

I'm certainly open to the possibility that your people have been in Europe a very long time indeed, but wouldn't you agree that its highly improbable that your people were left untouched and completely unaffected by the great migrations that occurred in the area over the last 2000 years? The reality is, Serbs and Albanians here act exactly the same, so I personally don't see much of a difference, we're too mixed with one another for you to be making such bold statements and "undisputable" claims.

There doesn't appear to be any undisputable evidence that overwhelming supports your theory. Is may be a likely scenario, sure, but is the evidence really so strong that you can base such a wide sweeping international border on it? The truth is we really just don't know a whole lot.

Even if your ancestors lived in that area, clearly it was not the center of your civilization or help to form your identity as you know it at any point in the past as it was for the Serbian people. Our very identity itself is tied to Kosovo, your do not have the same connection to the area.

It’s the same with the Jews. Most likely the Palestinians are the original inhabitants of the region, long before the Jews left Ur. Yet, Jerusalem is sacred to them because that is where they formed their identity and their greatest civilization in the past.

What is your stance on Jerusalem, and is it consistent with your beliefs in regards to Kosovo?

How does your thinking allow for a claim on Northern Kosovo, yet not the entire region?

Unless your beliefs and your conclusions can be applied across the board to all situations and all people, I think you may be biased towards your cause. I most certainly do not see you calling for RS or Krajina to be given to Serbia.

My beliefs are clear, the Right to Self Determination for all peoples of the Balkans wherever they live and whoever they are, plus a little horse trading and allowances for regions that have sacred meaning for a people.

My beliefs are clear, the Right to Self Determination for all peoples of the Balkans wherever they live and whoever they are, plus a little horse trading and allowances for regions that have sacred meaning for a people.
(Matthew, 22 June 2008 00:24)

Matthew, this sounds very nice but somewhat naive. Let's do few steps further and give everyone the right of self-determination. Give it to Gheg-Albanians and Tosk-Albanians. Give it to California, Texas, Vermont. Give it to the entire Latin-American community within USA, so they can create small (or large) pocket-states. Give it to Flandrians and Vallons, so there won't be any Belgian PM who would complain about Serbia. And that's the begin only.

In the reality, division creates a lot of poverty, economic ties being broken, populist, nationalist poison spilling over the communities and so on. Things like transportation, banking, education, health care, defense need to be not divided. Want to see a sample?

Here it is. Buy a train ticket from Sezana to Gevgelija. Do you know how much it is? I tell you: precisely 128.40 Euro for 1342 km. This is a shock... Do you know why is it so expensive? Because of many borders and every single company (SZ, HZ, ZS, MZ) beginning to charge a new INTERNATIONAL tariff at their border, usually twice (sometimes three times) as high as their domestic tariff. What would be if it would be only one country? Probably 40-50 Euro at worst. Who loses? The customer who travels. The customer who buys goods. And so on. You would argue: "hey, there could be low-cost airlines". And I would argue: these destroy the environment. You probably know, the entire Sezana-Tabanovci rail segment is under electric power. Guess, what is really cheaper for the country and envronment: a train with electric or an airplane? (Don't forget to add to the "pleasure" the taxi to/from the airport, the $5-$10 / Gallon fuel, "fun" having body search and so on)

Will turn out: from the transportation point of view the division of Jugoslavia is a disaster for the customer. Since people buy goods every day, the new borders also mean a disaster for the customer. Now wonder, how much goes down the tube just because of national pride. And how much goes in the pockets of the people who actually pray on the "benefits" of the division.

Maybe the entire division was just that: some had benefits... and how many normal people die is irrelevant?

I PERSONALLY believe that Serbia claiming montenegro is not true. I think it should be agreed on that Montenegro was in some ways independent of the Ottomans while Serbia was not. But to my point, while CG is not a part of Serbia territorially (ethnically, culturally we are the SAME people), Kosmet is. I think that an objective analysis of the formation of communist Yugoslavia would reveal that Serbia, as the biggest "ethnicity" was de centralized to create more balance in the proposed "utopian society".

On the topic of recognition, it would not surpirse me if Dukanovic & co recognized kosovo. Remember, these were the same hard-line SERBIAN nationalists during the war who supported Milosevic. I still believe that the people of montenegro will fully support their brothers throughout this ordeal.

OBJECTIVITY is paramount when discussing these topics.

How many lies and phoney rumors have we heard from the K-Albos before? The Crna Gora leadership will be the last nation on earth to recognize Kosovo.

Ataman,

As a Californian I strongly support the return of our land to the native population which will very soon be in the majority.

Its in my best interest. Think how rich we Californians would be. California on its own would have one of the largest economies in the world and we wouldn’t be burdened with endless military costs or paying for other states to get Federal subsidities. My quality of life would become amazing.

Regardless you’re missing the point. Globalization is coming and the old Wilsonian view of the Right to Self Determination needs to change. In order for Serbs (Albanians etc) to have their voice heard in a democractic borderless Europe, they will need to be able to vote as a block instead of having their voice diluted and muffled by dividing them amoung the various countries of the region.

Everyone else is concerned about the here and now, I thinking about what’s going to happen next. What kind of future do you want for the planet.

The Tosk/Gheg divide and issues over its usage in Kosovo are fascinating. I do strongly believe we are witness to a new identity forming in the Balkans.

I never had such laugh in my whole life...hahaha...redrawing lines on the balkan map?Someone stated that Presevo should be in Kosovo, Macedonian part should be in Kosovo ahahahaha.Why do you think that Albanians should get the land where there are the majority?Because you are majority there?Ohh man.This is so good to hear.And we Italians stood at your side?Stupid Italian government.

@Matthew:

Interesting ideas...and I completely believe you have the best intentions as well as a great outlook to a better future for the region.

However, you can see by Azir's post that too many Albanians are not interested in a regional better future, but only their own national interests, which is getting unrealistically greedier all the time.

Montenegrin recognition of the UDI will not help make the situation any more peaceful then giving the Sudetenland to the Germans was before WWII. Moreover, Albanians are not interested in trading land with Serbs and Montenegrins(Srbi) because they are under the mistaken impression that they are going to someday in the future have it given to them anyways.

Getting away with they have done in Kosovo has only wet their appetite.

However, the Albanians should remember what happened to them in Presevo when they tried the same game plan from Kosovo. The Serbs easily chased the Albanian thugs away while NATO looked on. That's because the international community does not want things to go any further than have already.

I'm not against land swaps mind you, but let's face it everytime the balkan players come close to making a deal, the internationals will simply intervene to make sure nothing gets settled or only settled the way they want it to.