"EU punishing Macedonia"

@1 Boban

Actually we liberated Makedonia in 1913. And 4.500 years of Greek heritage of Makedonia consitute a really huge heritage. Instead, 18 years of an independant manyfactured state as FYROM, do not constitute anything.
But just in case you really want to get serious on the issue, use some other argument than this childish long fallen one. Find something more solid and come back for the rest :)

Boban

Your Borat-like comments on the Greeks do not warrant a reply.We had enough of the old communist propaganda and
its time to move on.

There is a veto in place with regard to fyroms relations with the EU.All issues will have to be resolved before that veto is lifted.However, as long as Gruevski's populist policies are dictated by the likes of Metodija Koloski,of the fyromian diaspora,this will have a negative effect on Greece-Fyrom relations.

EU is not punishing FYRoM they are just using these incidents as an excuse to cover up heir own inability to actually offer admisssion.

The EU of 27 should never have happend before the EU 15 had dealt with internal issues on what the EU was all about and how it should function in the future. But those in power then across the EU chose to fudge decisions and now with 27 it is neigh on impossible to resolve such inconsistancy between all the countries. The horse trading that goes on makes Eurovision voting look like childs play!

Its not about the name but the identity of the Macedonian people. Macedonia is not greek heretige as it only aquired its share of Macedonia in 1913.
not even 100 years does not constitute heratige for a nation that almost 3000 years old

our great political leader nikola pasic once wrote, duplicity, that is the greek policy always.
greece is no friend of serbia. greece bombed serbia in 1999 and greece approved eulex in 2008. they charge us visas, something they dont do for croats. that's as far as politicians have managed. as for the ordinary folks, outbrust of hate for serbs when we won euro basketball championsip in greece in mid 1990s, that's something i'll never forget for as long as i live.
and any serb that calls macedonians frym-something will yet live to be ashamed.
our mother russia by the way is also pro macedonia and having in mind that russia is our only support in this world serbs really should have no doubt.
attempts to rob us serbs of territory and macedonians of their name come from the same kitchen when all is said and done. pity only that macedonia must try so hard to get into that kitchen simply because of existential threat coming from albanians. if any macedonian is reading this please be sure that ordinary folks here support you, regardless of that church dispute malarkey that pops up now and then. i'm yet to hear someone take the side of greece. it's such an outrageous attempt to strip a nation of its name. i dont think something so preposterous ever happened in history.
from a serb with much love for our southern macedonian neighbours and brothers and sisters.

@10 john
No john. Every person has the right to call himself as he pleases, as long as this doesnt offend others.
Thats democracy and not the manufacturing of an non existing ethnic identity with the only purpose to create pressure on others.

I will remind you and some of the other "educated" posters these:
1. Greece has nothing to apologise for since we didnt create the fiction and fairy tale of one more ethnicity, but the fyromians.
2. Greece has nothing to prove to anyone, since the minorities here enjoy every right that religion and immigration minorities enjoy in every democratic place in the world.
3. If you are accusing Greece for a fictional "genocide", then please explain to me what happened to the 150.000 Greeks of the region of Monastiri (the one you for some strange reason call Bitola), what happened to the hundrends of thousand Bulgarians in today's Fyrom, what is the condition of the Roma there, when was the last civil war in the Balkans and where, etc etc.
4. In case you havent noticed yet, the "EU club" knows that the problem doesnt come from Greece but from Fyrom. And it also understand, accept and support Greek position in this issue.
If you really need to know more about it, just read the last Summit announcement, just yesterday:

"The European Council underlines that further steps by the former Yugoslav Republic of
Macedonia in its progress towards the EU are possible by the end of this year, provided that
the conditions set out in the December 2005 European Council conclusions, the Copenhagen
political criteria and the key priorities of the February 2008 accession partnership are met. In
this context the European Council takes note of the conclusions of the GAERC of 16 June
2008. Maintaining good neighbourly relations, including a negotiated and mutually acceptable
solution on the name issue, remains essential."

In short, You fyromians find a soution or stay out of EU, says the announcement.

For the record:
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/ueDocs/cms_Data/docs/pressData/en/ec/101346.pdf

So, please all you "educated" people out there, Leave Greece alone, leave our history alone, leave our heritage alone, respect it and dont try to steal it, find your own roots and heritage. It is an essential right of every person or peoples to be self-defined, as long as it doesnt offend anyone else. And the use of the sacred Greek name of Makedonia in the context you are trying to use it, offend us.

@ Nicola

Greece tried to negotiate with your country since the interim agreement was signed in 1995.The spirit of the agreement was for each side to avoid provocations.Fyrom never gave a toss about the contents of the agreement.They continued their quest to be recognised under their constitutional name and engaged in numerous acts ie maps incorporating greek macedonia as part of fyrom,minorities issues etc.
Greece had no alternative other than to veto fyrom's EU-NATO aspirations.
With respect to 1913 Greece signed an agreement with Bulgaria for exchange of populations.Bulgaria treated these populations as Bulgarian.Between 1946-49 we had a civil war resulting in 100000 people dead,30000 forced kidnapings of children and destruction to property of unimaginable proportions.These people(your
kind )are plain murderers and
they will never be allowed back in Greece.
BTW can you tell me where are
all these minorities hiding in Greece?The last thing i remember is that Rainbow-the political party of the slav-macedonians- managed to get just over 2000 votes in the last two elections.

@13 Dimitraki

Long time no see :)
Lets see now.

"you speak that MACEDONIA should respect Greece"
No I dont. I say Fyrom should respect Greece. Makedonia and Greece respect each other since they are one :)

""Macedonia is Greek" will be laughable to even the most ignorant people!!!"
Actually today is when the ignorant people laugh with that. Unfortunately for you, noone else does, exept of you. Does this mean something?

"Greece is now doomed to continue down it's path to destruction, and so be it! They too must one day come into the modern era!"

Meaning? Shooting at each other during elections? Or maybe grabbing ballots and replacing the votes inside? Or maybe by portaying thier neighbouring country's Prime minister as an SS officer? Or maybe by changing their neighbouring country's flag with the swastica?
Please inform me of the modern era that Fyrom is in right now. Or maybe you mean that modern era where stealing your neighbour's identity and history and heritage is the trend.... THAT modern era? No thanks. I leave that to you.
You see, I dont need for someone else to fabricate my past. I have proof of it and I dont need anyone to justify it for me.
On the other hand, the fyromians need more than just fabrication. They need confirmation as an "ethnicity". And since your "ethnicity" is a fairly new one and only created for political purposes, you also needed historical backup. So the propaganda started. So you were created.
I can feel your frustration. Its looks to me like this:
There was a couple that couldnt have children. Then they went to a doctor and they decided to adopt a child. Only problem was that there wasnt any child available legally, so they decided to go underground to look for one. And they found it and bought it, illegaly ofcourse, since modern law doesnt allow such stuff. But when the child grew up, it found out that those parents werent the natural ones nor was he adopted. Imagine his frustration and anger. Imagine what will happen in your manufactured country in a few years time.....

Hey, Greeks, you have a serious problem ahead of you; appropriating the MACEDONIAN name, heritage, identity means you have to exterminate an entire race of people! It's been tried before, but seldom succeeds!

BTW you can "fyrom" yourselves into sweet oblivion; no one is listening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are known as MACEDONIANS around the world, we always have been and ALWAYS WILL BE!

POZDRAV DO SITE DUSMANI!

You Greeks dont understand one thing,We the Macedonians will fight for our rights as we have done in the past.We survived 500 years under the Ottoman Empire, we will survive whatever it takes.Greece is living the past that you do not have.You call yourselfs educated? Answer one question,where do you came from in the first place.Then we can discuss further history of the Balkans.You do know, we the Macedonians are from Europe,are you?You people make comments that Greece has nothing to do with Macedonia or Macedonian heritage.Karamanlis claimes he is Macedonian,how ironic,he is Pontious it is a FACT.You must be very proud of that arent you? Where is your purity that Greece is proffesing?You claim that Macedonia belonged to Greece from long time. Well a Greek individual argued with me and said"In 1888 the Bulgarians were in Salonica"Then how can you argue that Macedonia belonged to Greece 3500 years?Your history is so distorted its a mind bogling.Do you know who you are?Northern Greece is mostly Macedonians and Pontious from Asia Minor since 1924-26 most of them resetled in Macedonia. This is your purity eh!

To Peter:

Peter we know very well who we are. We are Greek macedonians, not from Pontus not from Athens, not from anywhere else. JUST FROM MACEDONIA, LIVING HERE THOUSANDS OF YEARS. Of course there are Greeks that inhabbited in macedonia, after the minor asia disaster, in 1922. But before that, macedonia was also inhabitted by macedonian greeks about 80%. And of course, during the ottoman times there were bulgarians as other nationalities in macedonia, but a VERY small percentage. That's why we say that macedonia has ALWAYS been greek from ancient times!

Of course you also know who you are: You are slav tribe, inhabitted in geographical macedonia for some hunderds of years, that have a PURE SLAV ORIGIN, SLAV (bulgarian mostly) language, SLAV appearence and SLAV culture.

Of course you want to connect yourselves totally falsely with the ancient greek macedonians, but you know very well that you HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with ancient macedonia or alexander the Great!

Your history is sort. When greek macedonians existed 3000 years ago, you did not!!! You only exsit from 700 AC and ALL HISTORIAN IN THE WORLD KNOW THIS!

So don't try to steal our history and herritage anymore. You have NOTHING to do with ancient macedonia, you are SLAVS, you speak SLAV, you look SLAV, and SLAV you will remain no matter how hard you try to "create" an another identity for your people!

The only true macedonians are the greeks. You are nothing but a bunch of Slavs! Accept your identity at last and we might leave in peace together.

But as long as you don't accept your true idenity and "create" a idenity you don't have, there will be never peace between us.

You have NOTHING TO DO with macedonia! Accept your SLAV idenity at last!

@23 Peter
You are easy to answer, since you really dont have an argument at all. Lets see:

"We the Macedonians will fight for our rights as we have done in the past."
Totally agree. We Makedonians have fought our way to liberation from all Slavic and Turkic nations that have conquered us in the past.

"Answer one question,where do you came from in the first place"
We dont come from anywhere. We were always here and we will always be here. Where do you come from?

"You do know, we the Macedonians are from Europe"
Actually we do know that we Makedonians are autocthones, because we Makedonians are Greeks. Now if you feel you come from somewhere in Europe, then I am sorry to announce you that you are far from even thinking of becoming Makedonian.

"You people make comments that Greece has nothing to do with Macedonia or Macedonian heritage."
No. YOU do. We say that Greece has everything to do with Makedonia and Makedonians since they are the same. Fyrom has nothing to do with Makedonia and Makedonians. I feel you are confused a bit :)

"Karamanlis claimes he is Macedonian,how ironic,he is Pontious it is a FACT"
Actually you are wrong even about that. Karamanlis claims he is Makedonian since his family came to Makedonia some hundrend years ago, not from Pontos but from Anatolia. And as long as someone believes he is Greek and has strong roots in Makedonia, he is very welcomed to call himself Makedonian.

"Where is your purity that Greece is proffesing?"
In our gens and DNA. Where is yours? Hanging on a tree still?

"You claim that Macedonia belonged to Greece from long time."
No we dont claim it. We know it and the whole world knows it. Only you dont know it, although you are really afraid of it being true lately :)

"In 1888 the Bulgarians were in Salonica"Then how can you argue that Macedonia belonged to Greece 3500 years?"
Actually 4500 years. Because I am educated and I love to educate young people, In Greece (and subsequently in Makedonia also) those 4500 years a lot fo people came and went. Some stayed, some left. Some were nice, some are rude. Bulgarians, Slavs, Turks were present in Makedonia and were living in Thessaloniki. Even Mustafa Kemal was born there. Can anyone claim he was Greek? Of course not. We never said there were no other peoples living here. We just say that they either left or asimilated by the superior local population.

"Your history is so distorted its a mind bogling."
Yes for some I can clearly see it is really "mind bogling". Pity.

"Northern Greece is mostly Macedonians and Pontious from Asia Minor since 1924-26 most of them resetled in Macedonia. This is your purity eh!"
Yes exactly that. Makedonians and Pontic Greeks and Greeks from Asia Minor are still all Greeks, so yes, there is our purity. What is it exactly that you dont get?

And this is for.....
@25 Peter

"what language the Macedonians spoke. It is well documented it was in fact "Macedonian", not "Greek, Bulgarian or Serbian"."

You really cant get enough eh?
Ok, here is a census from an Italian University at 1911, still Makedonia under Ottoman empire:

http://www2.units.it/~storia/corsi/Dogo/tabelle/popolaz-ottomana1911.jpg

Can you point out the "macedonians"? Or maybe can you tell me those 350.000 Greeks mentioned at Monastiri, where ar they now? Or the 93.000 of Kossovo?
Or maybe you want to give me your resources and let me see where is it mentioned by the Turks that the people of Makedonia spoke a language named "makedonian".
Whatever I say is well documented. Is it yours? Or you just ... heard?
Well, next time try not to jst "hear" but also think. It would be good for a change :)

@21 Dimitri
"Hey, Greeks, you have a serious problem ahead of you; appropriating the MACEDONIAN name, heritage, identity means you have to exterminate an entire race of people!"
First of all, we have no problem ahead of us. YOU have, and it is the lack of ethnic identity you have the very few last years.
Secondly. We dont need and certainly dont want to exterminate anyone, anywhere, ever, especially when he is Greek. Actually we are not after anything materialistic. Instead, you are trying to steal our identity, steal our people, steal our lands, steal our heritage. I fail to see us Makedonians as exterminators, but I can clearly see you Fyromians as thiefs :)

"no one is listening!!!…!! We are known as MACEDONIANS around the world, we always have been and ALWAYS WILL BE!"
Actually everyone is listening and everyone agrees. Dont mix political games with the beliefs of the people. Everywhere in the world, in all Universities, history of ancient Makedonia is taught under the "Greek civilisation" syllabus. This in simple words means that everyone is learning Greek history, including the part of Makedonian history, since those two are one.
Now, if you feel better believing that "the whole world" knows you are Makedonians, be my guest and believe it. But be careful, when someone outside the Balkans tells you that you are a Slav, dont feel too frustrated. Just feel proud :)

@24 smile
My frined,
in 1999, Greece was the only (i think) nato member who opposed to the bombing of Serbia and didnt help at all the natoists on that. Ask around the elder and you will see.
Greece in 2008 approved EULEX, as also the KFOR and is actively participating still. And you know what? Any Serbian Orthodox Church that is still standing is because of the Greeks. Any kind of Serbian monument in the area that is still up, is because of the Greeks. Ask your brothers Kossovo-Serbians about it and then let me know.
And please clarify something. When you say "from a serb with much love for our southern macedonian neighbours and brothers and sisters." you mean that those living in Fyrom, are Slavs? What other kind of brothers and siters could they be?

@33 Peter

"Macedonia will do fine without EU.The Irish did prove that.Ireland,I love you."
Lol..... you DO understand that Ireland is IN the EU and Fyrom is OUT, dont you?

Geographically the area were FYROM is today was called Paionia and Pelagonia. Alexander the Great and Philip II annexed it through war. The Macedonians had a Greek identity and the kingdoms that were created after Alexander’s death, had a Greek identity.
"Yona" is a Pali word used in ancient India to designate Greek speakers. Its equivalent in Sanskrit is the word "Yavana". "Yona" and "Yavana" are both transliterations of the Greek word for "Ionians".
Look for the Yavana or the Indo-Greek or the Greco-Bactrian Kingdoms.
If they thought that Greek and Macedonian identity was different they would not support Greek language and belief systems. Coins art etc. from that area and era are GREEK. FYROM propaganda supports the Macedonians are not Greek because it fit their needs. Strategies did not changed since the end of Ottoman Empire, the name Macedonia means only territorial claims.

To DIMITAR:

So far Dimitar the only country that everybody is laughing or crying at, is your FYROM.

Every day more and more European and other countries are siding with Greece into the name dispute, simply because everybody understands that Greece is right.

You KNOW you are loosing the battle and you are panicing that you will change your name EITHER YOU LIKE OR NOT!

Get prepared for your new name DIMITAR! What do you prefer really? North Macedonia or New Macedonia??? I think Gruevsky will choose New Macedonia simply because this is the name GREECE WANTS TO "ALLOW" YOU HAVE!

The only fake country is your FYROM that are Slavs, speaking a bulgarian originated language and have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH MACEDONIA!

I can see you are pissed off but this will not change the fact that YOU WILL CHANGE YOUR NAME SOON, ONLY BECASUE WE WANT YOU TO DO SO!!

Start getting used to your new name DIMITAR...and please do it soon because Gruevsky will change it even before you notice it!!! :)

Simply ask the Turks who ruled Macedonia for 500 years what language the Macedonians spoke. It is well documented it was in fact "Macedonian", not "Greek, Bulgarian or Serbian".

The modern Greeks have nothing to do with the ancients except that they use a portion of their language and culture.

MACEDONIA IS MACEDONIAN
KOSOVO IS SERBIAN

As a serb, i would like to see the macedonians and greeks finally resolve this issue. Whether it be greeks or slavs, we are all orthodox and that will link us forever. We have all been subject to either muslim or catholic rule for centuries, and that should make us realize our need to unify and cooperate. We are all for stability in the balkans, for all peoples, serbian, albanian, greek, macedonian, etc.

I think this name issue is blown out of proportion.

@ smiles: speak for yourself. I have recieved nothing but 100% support and love for anything serbian from every greek that ive ever met. The Greeks supported us through the roughest times. Please research the demonstrations that went on in the US during the 1999 bombing. There were just as many Greeks protesting the bombing as Serbs!

I believe that macedonia has a big problem on their hands in the coming future. For the good of the macedonian people i think they need to quickly reform and join the EU, where their teritorial integrity would not be in question. If macedonia doesnt enter into the EU in the next decade, you can count on a future civil war and western macedonia eventually becoming de facto independent.

The same can be said for Serbia. If Serbia enters into the EU, no one can question its territorial integrity. The SAA said nothing of Kosovo being independent as I understand. As long as the kosovo questuon is taken out of the EU integration process, Serbia could have potentially found itself in a position where it can politically isolate the ruling govt in Kosovo. Now weather this is the right move morally can be debated. Im just stating that Serbia would be in a much better position to preserve its boundaries if it was a EU member.

Lol...
Dimitar's position on democracy is really surealistic.
He says:
"I, for one, read no posts by Greek posters."
And then he goes on to comment the Greeks, but still he doesnt want to even read the Greeks' comments. And on top he accuses Greeks for not wanting a solution:
"Greeks do not play on a level playing field , that is why there is no solution in sight!"
So tell me please, since this is the exact same stance of your leaders, when you dont really want to hear or read the other side's opinion, why you accuse the other side for a non solution?
Surealistic!!!!

@Aleksandar
"every Macedonian Orthodox Church in Greek occupied Macedonia was either razed to the ground, defaced or branded with Greek! So much for your "Orthodox Christian values"!"
1. There is no Makedonian Orthodox church (as a building) in Greece, since there is no Makeodnian Orthodox church (as an institution) in Greece either.
2. Sorry, there is no Greek occupied Makedonia anywhere i nthis world. There is only one Makedonia and last time I checked was liberated by the Greeks in 1913. If we missed a part that i dont know of, forgive us please :)
3. I never spoke of "Christian Orthodox values". I spoke about the preservation of Christian heritage of the Serbs. Get the picture: We didnt even tore down muslims mosques, we would tear down Christian churches?
Oh by the way, who exactly is it that denies entry in their country of any Serbian Orhodox clergy? Or maybe the name Arch Jovan reminds you of something? Get real please :)

"Macedonians could care less if you want to be "Greek Macedonians"
Actually we dont want to be Greek Makedonians. We are Makedonians, therefor we are Greeks. What part is it that you dont understand?

"For you it's a Geographic descriptor, for us it's Identity,"
Actually its the other way around. For YOU is a geographic descriptor, since you are not natives but immigrants in the area. For US is the identity, since Makedonia is Greek and us Makedonians cant give up our true identity.

In any case, you people should put some water in your wine and show good faith as did we. Your complete denial of everything is only leading oyu to isolation from Europe and Eu as it did with Nato. Want to keep your identity? Keep it and respect it. Only little thing you have to do before that is to recognise it. You know, the Slavic one that you so strongly deny. You Fyromians need to come up with new concepts though, since all your lies so far have been leveled by truth.
Sorry :)

This is what I see as the truth and I share information from a non-bias source so people will create their own decisions and opinions.
The area where FYROM is today was Named Paionia and Pelagonia?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paionia
The Macedonian kingdoms in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Uzbekistan had Greek identities?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yavana_Kingdom
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Greek_Kingdom
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Bactrian_Kingdom
The Language in FYROM today is a Slavic dialect?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_language
The Strategies did not changed since the end of Ottoman Empire, and the name Macedonia means only territorial claims?
en.sae.gr/files/img/full/1228.jpg

@11; you speak that MACEDONIA should respect Greece, but "Greeks" of your calibre will never respect a MACEDONIAN ever! WE are tired of your petty games, and you can expect MACEDONIA to slowly edge its way out of any "negotiations" with our "good neighbor Greece".

All of your dirty work will eventually backfire, you can BE ASSURED OF THAT! One who does not know the true history of MACEDONIA, may be shocked at the lengths to which Greece is going to manipulate MACEDONIA into capitulation, but its too late! Greece is now doomed to continue down it's path to destruction, and so be it! They too must one day come into the modern era!

For clarification, I mean destruction of the lies upon which modern Greece is founded; too many to mention here! But you can be sure that the time will come and the saying "Macedonia is Greek" will be laughable to even the most ignorant people!!!

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/free-speech-macedonia-forum/7333-gruevski-recognises-fyrom-fyrom.html

The site is not important, the pictures are though.
This is how your own elected PM feels about his country, only 4-5 days after the first round of the "democratic elections of the modern era" Fyromian fabricated country. FYROM, with big, nice letters. Why didnt he protest there? I wonder.....

To Azir:

I am Greek but I agree with you Azir. The rights of the FYROM's citizens have to do respected first off all.

But do you albanians do in order to achieve more rigths in that country???

DPA and Thaci, are well known allies of the nationalistic VMRO party that is actually oppressing the albanians!!

Why the party that is siding with the oppresors (DPA) took almost half of the albanian vote during the elections????

Thaci used the "macedonian" police - given by Gruevsky - in order to terrorize the albanian population by shooting and killing.

Why so many albanians voted for him and didn't vote for Ahmeti???

If you albanians want to be respected, you need to respect yourselves first of all. And certainly, you don't do that by voting the man (Thaci) who has been an ally to the oppressor of the albanian population in FYROM (VMRO-Gruevsky).

There are so many hateful lies and deceits in this news item, it's actually depressing.

I won't bother trying to correct propagandists like "Peter", "Dimitar" and such. I can only feel sorry for you and the anger you have pent up inside you.

I hope some day our two countries will get on.

The question is, when the Albanians turn your small country into another Kosovo, who will come to help you?

@Leonidas

Saying "we would like to negotiate" and holding on to the veto at the same time is a real hypocrisy. What Greece does is blackmail, and they are calling the Republic of Macedonia to start working on good neighborly relations?

I was not surprised to see in the results of some research that Greece is the most nationalistic country in the EU25.

As for the history, I don't think that Ancient Macedonia is the problem, but the exodus of the ethnic Macedonians from 1913 to 1948, and the reality that Greece fails to accept, that there are ethnic minorities in Greece.

Macedonia/FROM or whatever; is actually punishing itself by not acknowledging the Macedonian-Albanian's demands for equality, fair representation and human rights of the indigenous people to inhabitate that part of the world.Greece's objections are ridiculous when compared to our rights as citizens being denied. If the Slavs want to have a peacefull relationship then our rights must be respected.You can't be accepted by the EU as a equal partner when in fact you refuse to treat 40% of your population as equals.

Pavlos;thankyou for agreeing with commen sense even though you admit that you are a Greek.The Slavic led country AKA "Macedonia" must stop institutionalized discrimination and conduct an international census by the EU and UN to once and for all determine the TRUE percent of Albanians and constitutionly quarentee our rights just like the Serbs are getting with 60,000 people in a country of 2 milion in Kosova. We deserve more than we are getting with regards to our total percentage of the entire population. In Bosnia, Serbska Republica (RS) was created to appease the Serbs. All we want is for our voices to be heard and our rights to be respected.Tryanny is not eternal.The victims might retaliate, don't be surprised.

Smile, how wonderful to read your words!! Greek duplicity knows no bounds; it claims to support Serbia, yet is happy to work with UCK, ANA to destroy MACEDONIA!

Greeks care only for the preservation of their own lies; they have no integrity whatsoever. Unfortunately for them the world is being invested of the truth! The many posts on this forum attesting to historic facts are met with a barrage of propaganda! I, for one, read no posts by Greek posters.

The parallel world Greeks live in is under severe threat, hence their extreme reaction. Their hatred of MACEDONIANS, Americans, anyone that opposes their "world view" is indication of the intolerance of said society! There will come a time when Greeks will have to accept reality!

Bulgaria was let into the EU for having corruption charges in the Bulgarian government. And the country of Bulgaria is still having the problem. Sanctions should be put on Greece and as well freezing EU assets to them until the name resolution is solved. After all it was Greece who rejected a naming solution that the Greeks came up with for the country of Macedonia before the NATO meeting and the country of Macedonia accept this name.

Greece is telling to all 26 member states how to conduct its self.Who in hell wants to belong to a club like this? This club knows, the Macedonian minority in Greece is under constant preasure from the state sponsored terror.Greece does not want to recognize the existance of Macedonian ethnicity.Northern Greece has been called since 1913.Now that part of Macedonia is free and independent, Greece changed the name to Macedonia.If I were to declair myself Macedonian in Greec I would be thrown to jail.Dont you people see it why Greece did that.In one sentance,Greece does not want the world to know that they are not pure Greeks as they claim.Macedonia will survive, we will make sure of that,Greece will disintigrate sooner or later.

Pavlos,

you seem to know a lot about slav/albanian/greek politics, which makes people wonder whether you are really a greek or not! Sure greek people will not waste their time and read about who albanians voted in Macedonia, as it is in not their prime interests. Sometime I think that your language is appalling. You shouldn't be bullish just because greece is a member of the EU...Greece is lucky to be a member because the help from the EU helped a lot its economy...I may agree with your point on the FYROM name though...everyone know about Greek Civilisation, and rightly so greeks should be very proud of that, but what is apalling is that the level of civilisation thousands years back was better that what sometime you see in today Greece...and that's a shame for such a country with a great history

Pavlos; You are correct in that "Macedonia's" two Albanian political parties need to be shaken up a bit.It is truly disappointing to not have real leaders that actually put forth the INTEREST of the people over their own self-interest. Dividing the Albanian vote does not help us one bit.Mr. Ahmeti proved himself by being physicaly active in our struggle for equality. Can the same be said for Mr. Thaci?? Our success depends on our ability to unite and demand our rights in a determined and unchangeable direction.

Nikitas; and every Macedonian Orthodox Church in Greek occupied Macedonia was either razed to the ground, defaced or branded with Greek! So much for your "Orthodox Christian values"!

Really, the issue is Macedonians could care less if you want to be "Greek Macedonians", but when you try to deny us our ethnic identity
then we cannot accept your dictat! For you it's a Geographic descriptor, for us it's Identity, and no matter how you try to deny us what is ours, you will not succeed! You must know that we will forgoe everything if necessary, but never our name, identity!

EU is hostage to Greek demands.Macedonia will do fine without EU.The Irish did prove that.Ireland,I love you.Let Sarkozi and the Greeks go to ..Where ever.Macedonia will survive as it has for cencuries thank you.

the greeks are only protecting themselves with the veto,but that veto will ruin greece,with the name situation every person has the rights too call there country how they wish,so even with out EU or with EU the name will not change,even if there is no eu macedonia will still live,greece is in one panic situation that cant get away with,with the name greece wont win because every person has the rights too call itself what they like

To the Serb poster that said the "name issue should be solved"; here in Macedonia it's obvious that the Greeks want no solution! They want to manouever
us into a position where our position is so weak as to have to accept whatever name they impose upon us. Greeks do not play on a level playing field , that is why there is no solution in sight! Macedonians will not give up their identity at any cost, so we have a stalemate. They must realize that such an assault on a people brings them together against the oppressor.

Its not about the name but the identity of the Macedonian people. Macedonia is not greek heretige as it only aquired its share of Macedonia in 1913.
not even 100 years does not constitute heratige for a nation that almost 3000 years old

EU is not punishing FYRoM they are just using these incidents as an excuse to cover up heir own inability to actually offer admisssion.

The EU of 27 should never have happend before the EU 15 had dealt with internal issues on what the EU was all about and how it should function in the future. But those in power then across the EU chose to fudge decisions and now with 27 it is neigh on impossible to resolve such inconsistancy between all the countries. The horse trading that goes on makes Eurovision voting look like childs play!

Bulgaria was let into the EU for having corruption charges in the Bulgarian government. And the country of Bulgaria is still having the problem. Sanctions should be put on Greece and as well freezing EU assets to them until the name resolution is solved. After all it was Greece who rejected a naming solution that the Greeks came up with for the country of Macedonia before the NATO meeting and the country of Macedonia accept this name.

Boban

Your Borat-like comments on the Greeks do not warrant a reply.We had enough of the old communist propaganda and
its time to move on.

There is a veto in place with regard to fyroms relations with the EU.All issues will have to be resolved before that veto is lifted.However, as long as Gruevski's populist policies are dictated by the likes of Metodija Koloski,of the fyromian diaspora,this will have a negative effect on Greece-Fyrom relations.

To DIMITAR:

So far Dimitar the only country that everybody is laughing or crying at, is your FYROM.

Every day more and more European and other countries are siding with Greece into the name dispute, simply because everybody understands that Greece is right.

You KNOW you are loosing the battle and you are panicing that you will change your name EITHER YOU LIKE OR NOT!

Get prepared for your new name DIMITAR! What do you prefer really? North Macedonia or New Macedonia??? I think Gruevsky will choose New Macedonia simply because this is the name GREECE WANTS TO "ALLOW" YOU HAVE!

The only fake country is your FYROM that are Slavs, speaking a bulgarian originated language and have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH MACEDONIA!

I can see you are pissed off but this will not change the fact that YOU WILL CHANGE YOUR NAME SOON, ONLY BECASUE WE WANT YOU TO DO SO!!

Start getting used to your new name DIMITAR...and please do it soon because Gruevsky will change it even before you notice it!!! :)

@13 Dimitraki

Long time no see :)
Lets see now.

"you speak that MACEDONIA should respect Greece"
No I dont. I say Fyrom should respect Greece. Makedonia and Greece respect each other since they are one :)

""Macedonia is Greek" will be laughable to even the most ignorant people!!!"
Actually today is when the ignorant people laugh with that. Unfortunately for you, noone else does, exept of you. Does this mean something?

"Greece is now doomed to continue down it's path to destruction, and so be it! They too must one day come into the modern era!"

Meaning? Shooting at each other during elections? Or maybe grabbing ballots and replacing the votes inside? Or maybe by portaying thier neighbouring country's Prime minister as an SS officer? Or maybe by changing their neighbouring country's flag with the swastica?
Please inform me of the modern era that Fyrom is in right now. Or maybe you mean that modern era where stealing your neighbour's identity and history and heritage is the trend.... THAT modern era? No thanks. I leave that to you.
You see, I dont need for someone else to fabricate my past. I have proof of it and I dont need anyone to justify it for me.
On the other hand, the fyromians need more than just fabrication. They need confirmation as an "ethnicity". And since your "ethnicity" is a fairly new one and only created for political purposes, you also needed historical backup. So the propaganda started. So you were created.
I can feel your frustration. Its looks to me like this:
There was a couple that couldnt have children. Then they went to a doctor and they decided to adopt a child. Only problem was that there wasnt any child available legally, so they decided to go underground to look for one. And they found it and bought it, illegaly ofcourse, since modern law doesnt allow such stuff. But when the child grew up, it found out that those parents werent the natural ones nor was he adopted. Imagine his frustration and anger. Imagine what will happen in your manufactured country in a few years time.....

Macedonia/FROM or whatever; is actually punishing itself by not acknowledging the Macedonian-Albanian's demands for equality, fair representation and human rights of the indigenous people to inhabitate that part of the world.Greece's objections are ridiculous when compared to our rights as citizens being denied. If the Slavs want to have a peacefull relationship then our rights must be respected.You can't be accepted by the EU as a equal partner when in fact you refuse to treat 40% of your population as equals.

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/free-speech-macedonia-forum/7333-gruevski-recognises-fyrom-fyrom.html

The site is not important, the pictures are though.
This is how your own elected PM feels about his country, only 4-5 days after the first round of the "democratic elections of the modern era" Fyromian fabricated country. FYROM, with big, nice letters. Why didnt he protest there? I wonder.....

To Azir:

I am Greek but I agree with you Azir. The rights of the FYROM's citizens have to do respected first off all.

But do you albanians do in order to achieve more rigths in that country???

DPA and Thaci, are well known allies of the nationalistic VMRO party that is actually oppressing the albanians!!

Why the party that is siding with the oppresors (DPA) took almost half of the albanian vote during the elections????

Thaci used the "macedonian" police - given by Gruevsky - in order to terrorize the albanian population by shooting and killing.

Why so many albanians voted for him and didn't vote for Ahmeti???

If you albanians want to be respected, you need to respect yourselves first of all. And certainly, you don't do that by voting the man (Thaci) who has been an ally to the oppressor of the albanian population in FYROM (VMRO-Gruevsky).

@1 Boban

Actually we liberated Makedonia in 1913. And 4.500 years of Greek heritage of Makedonia consitute a really huge heritage. Instead, 18 years of an independant manyfactured state as FYROM, do not constitute anything.
But just in case you really want to get serious on the issue, use some other argument than this childish long fallen one. Find something more solid and come back for the rest :)

the greeks are only protecting themselves with the veto,but that veto will ruin greece,with the name situation every person has the rights too call there country how they wish,so even with out EU or with EU the name will not change,even if there is no eu macedonia will still live,greece is in one panic situation that cant get away with,with the name greece wont win because every person has the rights too call itself what they like

Hey, Greeks, you have a serious problem ahead of you; appropriating the MACEDONIAN name, heritage, identity means you have to exterminate an entire race of people! It's been tried before, but seldom succeeds!

BTW you can "fyrom" yourselves into sweet oblivion; no one is listening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are known as MACEDONIANS around the world, we always have been and ALWAYS WILL BE!

POZDRAV DO SITE DUSMANI!

Simply ask the Turks who ruled Macedonia for 500 years what language the Macedonians spoke. It is well documented it was in fact "Macedonian", not "Greek, Bulgarian or Serbian".

The modern Greeks have nothing to do with the ancients except that they use a portion of their language and culture.

MACEDONIA IS MACEDONIAN
KOSOVO IS SERBIAN

EU is hostage to Greek demands.Macedonia will do fine without EU.The Irish did prove that.Ireland,I love you.Let Sarkozi and the Greeks go to ..Where ever.Macedonia will survive as it has for cencuries thank you.

Greece is telling to all 26 member states how to conduct its self.Who in hell wants to belong to a club like this? This club knows, the Macedonian minority in Greece is under constant preasure from the state sponsored terror.Greece does not want to recognize the existance of Macedonian ethnicity.Northern Greece has been called since 1913.Now that part of Macedonia is free and independent, Greece changed the name to Macedonia.If I were to declair myself Macedonian in Greec I would be thrown to jail.Dont you people see it why Greece did that.In one sentance,Greece does not want the world to know that they are not pure Greeks as they claim.Macedonia will survive, we will make sure of that,Greece will disintigrate sooner or later.

Geographically the area were FYROM is today was called Paionia and Pelagonia. Alexander the Great and Philip II annexed it through war. The Macedonians had a Greek identity and the kingdoms that were created after Alexander’s death, had a Greek identity.
"Yona" is a Pali word used in ancient India to designate Greek speakers. Its equivalent in Sanskrit is the word "Yavana". "Yona" and "Yavana" are both transliterations of the Greek word for "Ionians".
Look for the Yavana or the Indo-Greek or the Greco-Bactrian Kingdoms.
If they thought that Greek and Macedonian identity was different they would not support Greek language and belief systems. Coins art etc. from that area and era are GREEK. FYROM propaganda supports the Macedonians are not Greek because it fit their needs. Strategies did not changed since the end of Ottoman Empire, the name Macedonia means only territorial claims.

This is what I see as the truth and I share information from a non-bias source so people will create their own decisions and opinions.
The area where FYROM is today was Named Paionia and Pelagonia?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paionia
The Macedonian kingdoms in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Uzbekistan had Greek identities?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yavana_Kingdom
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Greek_Kingdom
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Bactrian_Kingdom
The Language in FYROM today is a Slavic dialect?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_language
The Strategies did not changed since the end of Ottoman Empire, and the name Macedonia means only territorial claims?
en.sae.gr/files/img/full/1228.jpg

@Leonidas

Saying "we would like to negotiate" and holding on to the veto at the same time is a real hypocrisy. What Greece does is blackmail, and they are calling the Republic of Macedonia to start working on good neighborly relations?

I was not surprised to see in the results of some research that Greece is the most nationalistic country in the EU25.

As for the history, I don't think that Ancient Macedonia is the problem, but the exodus of the ethnic Macedonians from 1913 to 1948, and the reality that Greece fails to accept, that there are ethnic minorities in Greece.

@10 john
No john. Every person has the right to call himself as he pleases, as long as this doesnt offend others.
Thats democracy and not the manufacturing of an non existing ethnic identity with the only purpose to create pressure on others.

I will remind you and some of the other "educated" posters these:
1. Greece has nothing to apologise for since we didnt create the fiction and fairy tale of one more ethnicity, but the fyromians.
2. Greece has nothing to prove to anyone, since the minorities here enjoy every right that religion and immigration minorities enjoy in every democratic place in the world.
3. If you are accusing Greece for a fictional "genocide", then please explain to me what happened to the 150.000 Greeks of the region of Monastiri (the one you for some strange reason call Bitola), what happened to the hundrends of thousand Bulgarians in today's Fyrom, what is the condition of the Roma there, when was the last civil war in the Balkans and where, etc etc.
4. In case you havent noticed yet, the "EU club" knows that the problem doesnt come from Greece but from Fyrom. And it also understand, accept and support Greek position in this issue.
If you really need to know more about it, just read the last Summit announcement, just yesterday:

"The European Council underlines that further steps by the former Yugoslav Republic of
Macedonia in its progress towards the EU are possible by the end of this year, provided that
the conditions set out in the December 2005 European Council conclusions, the Copenhagen
political criteria and the key priorities of the February 2008 accession partnership are met. In
this context the European Council takes note of the conclusions of the GAERC of 16 June
2008. Maintaining good neighbourly relations, including a negotiated and mutually acceptable
solution on the name issue, remains essential."

In short, You fyromians find a soution or stay out of EU, says the announcement.

For the record:
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/ueDocs/cms_Data/docs/pressData/en/ec/101346.pdf

So, please all you "educated" people out there, Leave Greece alone, leave our history alone, leave our heritage alone, respect it and dont try to steal it, find your own roots and heritage. It is an essential right of every person or peoples to be self-defined, as long as it doesnt offend anyone else. And the use of the sacred Greek name of Makedonia in the context you are trying to use it, offend us.

@ Nicola

Greece tried to negotiate with your country since the interim agreement was signed in 1995.The spirit of the agreement was for each side to avoid provocations.Fyrom never gave a toss about the contents of the agreement.They continued their quest to be recognised under their constitutional name and engaged in numerous acts ie maps incorporating greek macedonia as part of fyrom,minorities issues etc.
Greece had no alternative other than to veto fyrom's EU-NATO aspirations.
With respect to 1913 Greece signed an agreement with Bulgaria for exchange of populations.Bulgaria treated these populations as Bulgarian.Between 1946-49 we had a civil war resulting in 100000 people dead,30000 forced kidnapings of children and destruction to property of unimaginable proportions.These people(your
kind )are plain murderers and
they will never be allowed back in Greece.
BTW can you tell me where are
all these minorities hiding in Greece?The last thing i remember is that Rainbow-the political party of the slav-macedonians- managed to get just over 2000 votes in the last two elections.

@11; you speak that MACEDONIA should respect Greece, but "Greeks" of your calibre will never respect a MACEDONIAN ever! WE are tired of your petty games, and you can expect MACEDONIA to slowly edge its way out of any "negotiations" with our "good neighbor Greece".

All of your dirty work will eventually backfire, you can BE ASSURED OF THAT! One who does not know the true history of MACEDONIA, may be shocked at the lengths to which Greece is going to manipulate MACEDONIA into capitulation, but its too late! Greece is now doomed to continue down it's path to destruction, and so be it! They too must one day come into the modern era!

For clarification, I mean destruction of the lies upon which modern Greece is founded; too many to mention here! But you can be sure that the time will come and the saying "Macedonia is Greek" will be laughable to even the most ignorant people!!!

Pavlos;thankyou for agreeing with commen sense even though you admit that you are a Greek.The Slavic led country AKA "Macedonia" must stop institutionalized discrimination and conduct an international census by the EU and UN to once and for all determine the TRUE percent of Albanians and constitutionly quarentee our rights just like the Serbs are getting with 60,000 people in a country of 2 milion in Kosova. We deserve more than we are getting with regards to our total percentage of the entire population. In Bosnia, Serbska Republica (RS) was created to appease the Serbs. All we want is for our voices to be heard and our rights to be respected.Tryanny is not eternal.The victims might retaliate, don't be surprised.

Pavlos; You are correct in that "Macedonia's" two Albanian political parties need to be shaken up a bit.It is truly disappointing to not have real leaders that actually put forth the INTEREST of the people over their own self-interest. Dividing the Albanian vote does not help us one bit.Mr. Ahmeti proved himself by being physicaly active in our struggle for equality. Can the same be said for Mr. Thaci?? Our success depends on our ability to unite and demand our rights in a determined and unchangeable direction.

You Greeks dont understand one thing,We the Macedonians will fight for our rights as we have done in the past.We survived 500 years under the Ottoman Empire, we will survive whatever it takes.Greece is living the past that you do not have.You call yourselfs educated? Answer one question,where do you came from in the first place.Then we can discuss further history of the Balkans.You do know, we the Macedonians are from Europe,are you?You people make comments that Greece has nothing to do with Macedonia or Macedonian heritage.Karamanlis claimes he is Macedonian,how ironic,he is Pontious it is a FACT.You must be very proud of that arent you? Where is your purity that Greece is proffesing?You claim that Macedonia belonged to Greece from long time. Well a Greek individual argued with me and said"In 1888 the Bulgarians were in Salonica"Then how can you argue that Macedonia belonged to Greece 3500 years?Your history is so distorted its a mind bogling.Do you know who you are?Northern Greece is mostly Macedonians and Pontious from Asia Minor since 1924-26 most of them resetled in Macedonia. This is your purity eh!

our great political leader nikola pasic once wrote, duplicity, that is the greek policy always.
greece is no friend of serbia. greece bombed serbia in 1999 and greece approved eulex in 2008. they charge us visas, something they dont do for croats. that's as far as politicians have managed. as for the ordinary folks, outbrust of hate for serbs when we won euro basketball championsip in greece in mid 1990s, that's something i'll never forget for as long as i live.
and any serb that calls macedonians frym-something will yet live to be ashamed.
our mother russia by the way is also pro macedonia and having in mind that russia is our only support in this world serbs really should have no doubt.
attempts to rob us serbs of territory and macedonians of their name come from the same kitchen when all is said and done. pity only that macedonia must try so hard to get into that kitchen simply because of existential threat coming from albanians. if any macedonian is reading this please be sure that ordinary folks here support you, regardless of that church dispute malarkey that pops up now and then. i'm yet to hear someone take the side of greece. it's such an outrageous attempt to strip a nation of its name. i dont think something so preposterous ever happened in history.
from a serb with much love for our southern macedonian neighbours and brothers and sisters.

To Peter:

Peter we know very well who we are. We are Greek macedonians, not from Pontus not from Athens, not from anywhere else. JUST FROM MACEDONIA, LIVING HERE THOUSANDS OF YEARS. Of course there are Greeks that inhabbited in macedonia, after the minor asia disaster, in 1922. But before that, macedonia was also inhabitted by macedonian greeks about 80%. And of course, during the ottoman times there were bulgarians as other nationalities in macedonia, but a VERY small percentage. That's why we say that macedonia has ALWAYS been greek from ancient times!

Of course you also know who you are: You are slav tribe, inhabitted in geographical macedonia for some hunderds of years, that have a PURE SLAV ORIGIN, SLAV (bulgarian mostly) language, SLAV appearence and SLAV culture.

Of course you want to connect yourselves totally falsely with the ancient greek macedonians, but you know very well that you HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with ancient macedonia or alexander the Great!

Your history is sort. When greek macedonians existed 3000 years ago, you did not!!! You only exsit from 700 AC and ALL HISTORIAN IN THE WORLD KNOW THIS!

So don't try to steal our history and herritage anymore. You have NOTHING to do with ancient macedonia, you are SLAVS, you speak SLAV, you look SLAV, and SLAV you will remain no matter how hard you try to "create" an another identity for your people!

The only true macedonians are the greeks. You are nothing but a bunch of Slavs! Accept your identity at last and we might leave in peace together.

But as long as you don't accept your true idenity and "create" a idenity you don't have, there will be never peace between us.

You have NOTHING TO DO with macedonia! Accept your SLAV idenity at last!

@23 Peter
You are easy to answer, since you really dont have an argument at all. Lets see:

"We the Macedonians will fight for our rights as we have done in the past."
Totally agree. We Makedonians have fought our way to liberation from all Slavic and Turkic nations that have conquered us in the past.

"Answer one question,where do you came from in the first place"
We dont come from anywhere. We were always here and we will always be here. Where do you come from?

"You do know, we the Macedonians are from Europe"
Actually we do know that we Makedonians are autocthones, because we Makedonians are Greeks. Now if you feel you come from somewhere in Europe, then I am sorry to announce you that you are far from even thinking of becoming Makedonian.

"You people make comments that Greece has nothing to do with Macedonia or Macedonian heritage."
No. YOU do. We say that Greece has everything to do with Makedonia and Makedonians since they are the same. Fyrom has nothing to do with Makedonia and Makedonians. I feel you are confused a bit :)

"Karamanlis claimes he is Macedonian,how ironic,he is Pontious it is a FACT"
Actually you are wrong even about that. Karamanlis claims he is Makedonian since his family came to Makedonia some hundrend years ago, not from Pontos but from Anatolia. And as long as someone believes he is Greek and has strong roots in Makedonia, he is very welcomed to call himself Makedonian.

"Where is your purity that Greece is proffesing?"
In our gens and DNA. Where is yours? Hanging on a tree still?

"You claim that Macedonia belonged to Greece from long time."
No we dont claim it. We know it and the whole world knows it. Only you dont know it, although you are really afraid of it being true lately :)

"In 1888 the Bulgarians were in Salonica"Then how can you argue that Macedonia belonged to Greece 3500 years?"
Actually 4500 years. Because I am educated and I love to educate young people, In Greece (and subsequently in Makedonia also) those 4500 years a lot fo people came and went. Some stayed, some left. Some were nice, some are rude. Bulgarians, Slavs, Turks were present in Makedonia and were living in Thessaloniki. Even Mustafa Kemal was born there. Can anyone claim he was Greek? Of course not. We never said there were no other peoples living here. We just say that they either left or asimilated by the superior local population.

"Your history is so distorted its a mind bogling."
Yes for some I can clearly see it is really "mind bogling". Pity.

"Northern Greece is mostly Macedonians and Pontious from Asia Minor since 1924-26 most of them resetled in Macedonia. This is your purity eh!"
Yes exactly that. Makedonians and Pontic Greeks and Greeks from Asia Minor are still all Greeks, so yes, there is our purity. What is it exactly that you dont get?

And this is for.....
@25 Peter

"what language the Macedonians spoke. It is well documented it was in fact "Macedonian", not "Greek, Bulgarian or Serbian"."

You really cant get enough eh?
Ok, here is a census from an Italian University at 1911, still Makedonia under Ottoman empire:

http://www2.units.it/~storia/corsi/Dogo/tabelle/popolaz-ottomana1911.jpg

Can you point out the "macedonians"? Or maybe can you tell me those 350.000 Greeks mentioned at Monastiri, where ar they now? Or the 93.000 of Kossovo?
Or maybe you want to give me your resources and let me see where is it mentioned by the Turks that the people of Makedonia spoke a language named "makedonian".
Whatever I say is well documented. Is it yours? Or you just ... heard?
Well, next time try not to jst "hear" but also think. It would be good for a change :)

@21 Dimitri
"Hey, Greeks, you have a serious problem ahead of you; appropriating the MACEDONIAN name, heritage, identity means you have to exterminate an entire race of people!"
First of all, we have no problem ahead of us. YOU have, and it is the lack of ethnic identity you have the very few last years.
Secondly. We dont need and certainly dont want to exterminate anyone, anywhere, ever, especially when he is Greek. Actually we are not after anything materialistic. Instead, you are trying to steal our identity, steal our people, steal our lands, steal our heritage. I fail to see us Makedonians as exterminators, but I can clearly see you Fyromians as thiefs :)

"no one is listening!!!…!! We are known as MACEDONIANS around the world, we always have been and ALWAYS WILL BE!"
Actually everyone is listening and everyone agrees. Dont mix political games with the beliefs of the people. Everywhere in the world, in all Universities, history of ancient Makedonia is taught under the "Greek civilisation" syllabus. This in simple words means that everyone is learning Greek history, including the part of Makedonian history, since those two are one.
Now, if you feel better believing that "the whole world" knows you are Makedonians, be my guest and believe it. But be careful, when someone outside the Balkans tells you that you are a Slav, dont feel too frustrated. Just feel proud :)

@24 smile
My frined,
in 1999, Greece was the only (i think) nato member who opposed to the bombing of Serbia and didnt help at all the natoists on that. Ask around the elder and you will see.
Greece in 2008 approved EULEX, as also the KFOR and is actively participating still. And you know what? Any Serbian Orthodox Church that is still standing is because of the Greeks. Any kind of Serbian monument in the area that is still up, is because of the Greeks. Ask your brothers Kossovo-Serbians about it and then let me know.
And please clarify something. When you say "from a serb with much love for our southern macedonian neighbours and brothers and sisters." you mean that those living in Fyrom, are Slavs? What other kind of brothers and siters could they be?

Smile, how wonderful to read your words!! Greek duplicity knows no bounds; it claims to support Serbia, yet is happy to work with UCK, ANA to destroy MACEDONIA!

Greeks care only for the preservation of their own lies; they have no integrity whatsoever. Unfortunately for them the world is being invested of the truth! The many posts on this forum attesting to historic facts are met with a barrage of propaganda! I, for one, read no posts by Greek posters.

The parallel world Greeks live in is under severe threat, hence their extreme reaction. Their hatred of MACEDONIANS, Americans, anyone that opposes their "world view" is indication of the intolerance of said society! There will come a time when Greeks will have to accept reality!

Nikitas; and every Macedonian Orthodox Church in Greek occupied Macedonia was either razed to the ground, defaced or branded with Greek! So much for your "Orthodox Christian values"!

Really, the issue is Macedonians could care less if you want to be "Greek Macedonians", but when you try to deny us our ethnic identity
then we cannot accept your dictat! For you it's a Geographic descriptor, for us it's Identity, and no matter how you try to deny us what is ours, you will not succeed! You must know that we will forgoe everything if necessary, but never our name, identity!

To the Serb poster that said the "name issue should be solved"; here in Macedonia it's obvious that the Greeks want no solution! They want to manouever
us into a position where our position is so weak as to have to accept whatever name they impose upon us. Greeks do not play on a level playing field , that is why there is no solution in sight! Macedonians will not give up their identity at any cost, so we have a stalemate. They must realize that such an assault on a people brings them together against the oppressor.

Lol...
Dimitar's position on democracy is really surealistic.
He says:
"I, for one, read no posts by Greek posters."
And then he goes on to comment the Greeks, but still he doesnt want to even read the Greeks' comments. And on top he accuses Greeks for not wanting a solution:
"Greeks do not play on a level playing field , that is why there is no solution in sight!"
So tell me please, since this is the exact same stance of your leaders, when you dont really want to hear or read the other side's opinion, why you accuse the other side for a non solution?
Surealistic!!!!

@Aleksandar
"every Macedonian Orthodox Church in Greek occupied Macedonia was either razed to the ground, defaced or branded with Greek! So much for your "Orthodox Christian values"!"
1. There is no Makedonian Orthodox church (as a building) in Greece, since there is no Makeodnian Orthodox church (as an institution) in Greece either.
2. Sorry, there is no Greek occupied Makedonia anywhere i nthis world. There is only one Makedonia and last time I checked was liberated by the Greeks in 1913. If we missed a part that i dont know of, forgive us please :)
3. I never spoke of "Christian Orthodox values". I spoke about the preservation of Christian heritage of the Serbs. Get the picture: We didnt even tore down muslims mosques, we would tear down Christian churches?
Oh by the way, who exactly is it that denies entry in their country of any Serbian Orhodox clergy? Or maybe the name Arch Jovan reminds you of something? Get real please :)

"Macedonians could care less if you want to be "Greek Macedonians"
Actually we dont want to be Greek Makedonians. We are Makedonians, therefor we are Greeks. What part is it that you dont understand?

"For you it's a Geographic descriptor, for us it's Identity,"
Actually its the other way around. For YOU is a geographic descriptor, since you are not natives but immigrants in the area. For US is the identity, since Makedonia is Greek and us Makedonians cant give up our true identity.

In any case, you people should put some water in your wine and show good faith as did we. Your complete denial of everything is only leading oyu to isolation from Europe and Eu as it did with Nato. Want to keep your identity? Keep it and respect it. Only little thing you have to do before that is to recognise it. You know, the Slavic one that you so strongly deny. You Fyromians need to come up with new concepts though, since all your lies so far have been leveled by truth.
Sorry :)

@33 Peter

"Macedonia will do fine without EU.The Irish did prove that.Ireland,I love you."
Lol..... you DO understand that Ireland is IN the EU and Fyrom is OUT, dont you?

There are so many hateful lies and deceits in this news item, it's actually depressing.

I won't bother trying to correct propagandists like "Peter", "Dimitar" and such. I can only feel sorry for you and the anger you have pent up inside you.

I hope some day our two countries will get on.

The question is, when the Albanians turn your small country into another Kosovo, who will come to help you?

Pavlos,

you seem to know a lot about slav/albanian/greek politics, which makes people wonder whether you are really a greek or not! Sure greek people will not waste their time and read about who albanians voted in Macedonia, as it is in not their prime interests. Sometime I think that your language is appalling. You shouldn't be bullish just because greece is a member of the EU...Greece is lucky to be a member because the help from the EU helped a lot its economy...I may agree with your point on the FYROM name though...everyone know about Greek Civilisation, and rightly so greeks should be very proud of that, but what is apalling is that the level of civilisation thousands years back was better that what sometime you see in today Greece...and that's a shame for such a country with a great history

As a serb, i would like to see the macedonians and greeks finally resolve this issue. Whether it be greeks or slavs, we are all orthodox and that will link us forever. We have all been subject to either muslim or catholic rule for centuries, and that should make us realize our need to unify and cooperate. We are all for stability in the balkans, for all peoples, serbian, albanian, greek, macedonian, etc.

I think this name issue is blown out of proportion.

@ smiles: speak for yourself. I have recieved nothing but 100% support and love for anything serbian from every greek that ive ever met. The Greeks supported us through the roughest times. Please research the demonstrations that went on in the US during the 1999 bombing. There were just as many Greeks protesting the bombing as Serbs!

I believe that macedonia has a big problem on their hands in the coming future. For the good of the macedonian people i think they need to quickly reform and join the EU, where their teritorial integrity would not be in question. If macedonia doesnt enter into the EU in the next decade, you can count on a future civil war and western macedonia eventually becoming de facto independent.

The same can be said for Serbia. If Serbia enters into the EU, no one can question its territorial integrity. The SAA said nothing of Kosovo being independent as I understand. As long as the kosovo questuon is taken out of the EU integration process, Serbia could have potentially found itself in a position where it can politically isolate the ruling govt in Kosovo. Now weather this is the right move morally can be debated. Im just stating that Serbia would be in a much better position to preserve its boundaries if it was a EU member.