Romania: Serbia deserves candidate status

But what exactly do they mean by Serbia? - Is it like De Gucth Belguim FM said

"My understanding is that we signed the agreement with Serbia proper, without Kosovo",

- this is the cat out of the bag moment and what has Tadic done to refute it?

Surely Tadic as President has a responsibility and accountability to uphold Serbia's consitution and territorial integrity. Tadic has a duty of post to unequivocally and publically to correct the likes of De Gucht and to him right regarding Serbia's territorial sovreignty - Serbia is Kosovo is Serbia !

That must be made publically clear now or will we be faced with what Rehn does not want to speculate now but clearly sees this for the future given that De Gucht has let the cat out of the bag !!!http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=06&dd=15&nav_id=51114
- in which case Tadic is complicit in playing for time when he needs to be forth right in his convictions to uphold Serbian consitution, sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Another deceiving gesture by the kosovo invaders.

Thank you for the gesture Romania but we will go the Russian path. EU is turning into a new communist block with central command and we dont want that again.

Alexis International, a Toronto-based consulting firm gives its reasons why the Euro will not survive much longer, says Boba Bojorevic of Ottawa Radio Station CKCU, in an article written on the 15th June. It explains that Serbia would do better to stop thinking of the EU as the solution to her problems. Instead the EU has become the problem.

The alternative strategic future Alexis envisages for Serbia is to be free of EU taxes and regulation, and to operate as an off-shore European investment centre, as was Hong Kong pre-absorption into China. Serbia could trade with the faster growing parts of the world - the BRIC - Brazil, Russia, India and China, as well as having the lowest taxes in Europe. As a strategy it makes good sense.

Read rest at - http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2008/06/euro-is-failed-currency-says-toronto.html

"Serbia has much better economy than Romania but the politicks are just like yours."

Probably that`s why the unemployment rate hits 20%...

I think this is a genuine and friendly move from Romania.

I am also certain that Romania is well placed to become the next big player in the region. The amount of interests from foreign business and investment leaves the rest of the region behind.

I hope we have a new government in Serbia soon that can try to catch up.

Peter Sudyka wrote:
"if you align with Russia, your economy will go down the toilet like all the other CEE countries who were blessed by Russian alliance and will do anything to get away from their influence"

Time will tell .. At least Russia doesn't Bomb the crap out of a "friend" then pretend to rebuild, with so called "donations" which are loans to be repaid by our children. EU=Central Control and No Freedom. Not everything is in Money, pride and freedom are more important. Those countries you mention have lost their souls now that their identity is gone and the citizens transformed into robots and consumers instead of individuals and citizens for a handful of US$. Its a shame but we still have respect for our former brothers in Romania, Bulgaria, Czech and Slovaks, hopefully they will be back with us, soon. :)

vencor wrote :
"The alternative strategic future Alexis envisages for Serbia is to be free of EU taxes and regulation, and to operate as an off-shore European investment centre, as was Hong Kong pre-absorption into China. Serbia could trade with the faster growing parts of the world - the BRIC - Brazil, Russia, India and China"

Thats exactly what we need to do and I have made these suggestions on previous posts. I am sceptical about the tax haven part but cooperation with South America and Russia/China is the path to go. These are the non-globalist countries and very rich in Natural Resources. We could be their corridor into Europe and I am sure we will find investors willing to finance that type of economy here.

Peter

And so too did the economies of the Soviet and Warsaw Pact nations accelerate during the two decades after WWII (and before) but it all came to a grinding halt.

It sounds to me like a case of déjà vu for all those new EU nations you mentioned. All signs are the western economies are beginning to crumble.

In the world of trading, there is a saying. Bears make money and Bulls make money but Pigs get slaughtered. The Pigs are the ones that keep changing sides just before a turning point.

The SAA will be for Serbia, without Kosovo. At least so say most heads of state in the EU. why do they do that?

Many EU leaders recognize the fact that Kosovo is an utterly poor region, and a region where rule of law is not applied effectively, with the consequences that give for the society in general. Thus, they know that Kosovo has an incredibly long way to go before any SAA can be considered - not to think about EU membership and Schengen.

Instead, they "supervise" a local goverment, in order to give the impression that Kosovo is very close to the EU.

So, while Serbia proper have the chance to be an EU member state, Kosovo will end up as a simple client, wihtout any rights.

Further, many EU countries have large minorities from Kosovo, which are, in many cases, unpopular among the local population. With a Kosovo constitution in place, and a EU justice and law mission which can finally report something like "progress", certain EU countries can finally start the process of "deporting" these elements from Kosovo back. it will be a bitter truth for Kosovo to experience in the near future, especially as they see Serbia joining the EU and Schengen.

But for this to happen, Serbians need to start focusing on their own future, not Kosovo's!

Peter we know what your countries experienced with the USSR but guess what, its gone and Russia has changed for the better. Russia itself is far better off then 20 years ago.

And unlike Poland Serbia doesn't plan on integrating our economy with any one country but opening up to the world... a world that incidentally includes Russia. Why should we confine ourselves to the EU alone, I don't see any Polish or Czech products anywhere but Europe.

Probably that`s why the unemployment rate hits 20%...
(adrian, timisoara, romania, 17 June 2008 18:03)

Thats including Kosovo, alas we can't be held accountable for that part unfortunately it makes out economic reforms rather difficult. Lets not forget the decade of unjustified sanctions and war that Romania was lucky enough to not experience, a bit of a head start no? Not to undermine our Romanian friends but the cream of Romania's intellect and high skilled labor force has moved to more "western" residencies, which spells bad for the home country.

Great article vencor. I don't believe Serbia should join the EU. Why should they? Anyways it hasn't hurt countries like Norway and Switzerland to not be in the EU. The facts are there to see - both of these countries are in the top 10 in the human development index. Let me remind you that countries like Romania, Bulgaria, Lithuania and Estonia are still around the 50's on the list.

If getting bombed, invaded and sanctioned by EU members is OK, they by all means - join them.

Duro

"Peter we know what your countries experienced with the USSR but guess what, its gone and Russia has changed for the better. Russia itself is far better off then 20 years ago. "

I am aware that Russia is doing much better now as well, but I think that even if they manage to overtake all the Western states, the CEE countries wouldn't even think about "going back" to their sphere of influence.

"And unlike Poland Serbia doesn't plan on integrating our economy with any one country but opening up to the world... a world that incidentally includes Russia. Why should we confine ourselves to the EU alone, I don't see any Polish or Czech products anywhere but Europe. "

Of course, no one is saying that the new CEE states shouldn't trade with Russia, that would be foolish, Poland maintains trade with Russia and it still is an important trade partner for us, but living under their economic model was the problem and what drove everyone away from them (Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova seem to be moving in our direction too lately).

"Time will tell .. At least Russia doesn't Bomb the crap out of a "friend" then pretend to rebuild, with so called "donations" which are loans to be repaid by our children. "

Well, I could argue Chechnya here, but true, Russia has done nothing wrong to Serbia. To Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia on the other hand...

"EU=Central Control and No Freedom. Not everything is in Money, pride and freedom are more important. Those countries you mention have lost their souls now that their identity is gone and the citizens transformed into robots and consumers instead of individuals and citizens for a handful of US$. "

Haha, sorry Dorcol, but this kind of nonsense is precisely the kind of propaganda that our government was shoving down our throats in the 70's and 80's, trying to convince us that the West is a degenerate, rotting, Capitalist hole. Let me just say to you that this kind of attitude has very bad memories for all the CEE countries and does not bode too well for Serbia, I think.

"Its a shame but we still have respect for our former brothers in Romania, Bulgaria, Czech and Slovaks, hopefully they will be back with us, soon. :) "

Wishful thinking, these four countries have never experienced this kind of economic progress, stability and forthcoming prosperity with the EU compared to before. I am sure the average Romanian or Bulgarian (I am not even talking about the Czechs and Slovaks) feels chills going up his/her spine thinking about how much worse it was in the past compared to how good it is slowly becoming in their countries and to how much better it will be in the future fir them.

"And so too did the economies of the Soviet and Warsaw Pact nations accelerate during the two decades after WWII (and before) but it all came to a grinding halt."

While the Western countries didn't come to a grinding halt. I think it is clear as to which is the more reliable "bloc" to belong to.

"It sounds to me like a case of déjà vu for all those new EU nations you mentioned. All signs are the western economies are beginning to crumble. "

Once again, this sort of thing was said by our government in the 70's and 80's too. Sorry ZK, but you know better than anyone that the living standards in the UK are far ahead of Serbia, having both countries as a reference. Maybe growth in the EU countries has slowed down over the years, but that can be expected, considering that those countries are almost fully developed, hence the idea of enlargement. Obviously BIRC (as they are called here) are showing far more impressive growth at the moment, but that is because they are far behind the EU in terms of development. Between 1 000 000 - 1 500 000 Serbs live in the EU, as opposed to roughly 5 000 in Russia, why do you think that is? I think you know.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In the end, no disprespect to Russia, I wish their people all the best after 70 years of Communism, but Serbia chosing them over the EU would be foolish.

Dear Romanian we all know how Romania join EU, stop bothering us with a comments alla EU. Serbia has much better economy than Romania but the politicks are just like yours.

Dorcol

Ask any Pole, Hungarian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Czech, Slovak, Romanian or Bulgarian why they chose the European path and not the Russian one. Don't forget, Serbia was not aligned, if you align with Russia, your economy will go down the toilet like all the other CEE countries who were blessed by Russian alliance and will do anything to get away from their influence. Now we are all FAR better off than 20 years ago when we were rotting under COMECON influence.

Tex Willer

Actually they are about the same for the moment, and with current trends as they are, Romania will leave Serbia far behind in the next 5-10 years.

"Not to undermine our Romanian friends but the cream of Romania's intellect and high skilled labor force has moved to more "western" residencies, which spells bad for the home country."

You are right on this, Duro. but there are still more serbian expats around then romanians. We already have serb "gastarbeiters". And they are welcome. But you still have some 18-20% unemployed. so, don`t tell me that Serbia is doing well, please!

Peter, what I am saying is that Poland may have joined the Western bloc during its Peak and times may not be so rosey in the future. The US debt is phenomenal and the western economies do not look so good.

Lets wait and see but I suspect you jumped onto a sinking ship. As for Serbia, I think it would do better out of the EU. It should still have economic links to it but also strengthen ties to the BRIC nations, which have only shown us respect.

The SAA will be for Serbia, without Kosovo. At least so say most heads of state in the EU. why do they do that?

Many EU leaders recognize the fact that Kosovo is an utterly poor region, and a region where rule of law is not applied effectively, with the consequences that give for the society in general. Thus, they know that Kosovo has an incredibly long way to go before any SAA can be considered - not to think about EU membership and Schengen.

Instead, they "supervise" a local goverment, in order to give the impression that Kosovo is very close to the EU.

So, while Serbia proper have the chance to be an EU member state, Kosovo will end up as a simple client, wihtout any rights.

Further, many EU countries have large minorities from Kosovo, which are, in many cases, unpopular among the local population. With a Kosovo constitution in place, and a EU justice and law mission which can finally report something like "progress", certain EU countries can finally start the process of "deporting" these elements from Kosovo back. it will be a bitter truth for Kosovo to experience in the near future, especially as they see Serbia joining the EU and Schengen.

But for this to happen, Serbians need to start focusing on their own future, not Kosovo's!

Dorcol

Ask any Pole, Hungarian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Czech, Slovak, Romanian or Bulgarian why they chose the European path and not the Russian one. Don't forget, Serbia was not aligned, if you align with Russia, your economy will go down the toilet like all the other CEE countries who were blessed by Russian alliance and will do anything to get away from their influence. Now we are all FAR better off than 20 years ago when we were rotting under COMECON influence.

Tex Willer

Actually they are about the same for the moment, and with current trends as they are, Romania will leave Serbia far behind in the next 5-10 years.

Dear Romanian we all know how Romania join EU, stop bothering us with a comments alla EU. Serbia has much better economy than Romania but the politicks are just like yours.

"Serbia has much better economy than Romania but the politicks are just like yours."

Probably that`s why the unemployment rate hits 20%...

But what exactly do they mean by Serbia? - Is it like De Gucth Belguim FM said

"My understanding is that we signed the agreement with Serbia proper, without Kosovo",

- this is the cat out of the bag moment and what has Tadic done to refute it?

Surely Tadic as President has a responsibility and accountability to uphold Serbia's consitution and territorial integrity. Tadic has a duty of post to unequivocally and publically to correct the likes of De Gucht and to him right regarding Serbia's territorial sovreignty - Serbia is Kosovo is Serbia !

That must be made publically clear now or will we be faced with what Rehn does not want to speculate now but clearly sees this for the future given that De Gucht has let the cat out of the bag !!!http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=06&dd=15&nav_id=51114
- in which case Tadic is complicit in playing for time when he needs to be forth right in his convictions to uphold Serbian consitution, sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Another deceiving gesture by the kosovo invaders.

Thank you for the gesture Romania but we will go the Russian path. EU is turning into a new communist block with central command and we dont want that again.

Alexis International, a Toronto-based consulting firm gives its reasons why the Euro will not survive much longer, says Boba Bojorevic of Ottawa Radio Station CKCU, in an article written on the 15th June. It explains that Serbia would do better to stop thinking of the EU as the solution to her problems. Instead the EU has become the problem.

The alternative strategic future Alexis envisages for Serbia is to be free of EU taxes and regulation, and to operate as an off-shore European investment centre, as was Hong Kong pre-absorption into China. Serbia could trade with the faster growing parts of the world - the BRIC - Brazil, Russia, India and China, as well as having the lowest taxes in Europe. As a strategy it makes good sense.

Read rest at - http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2008/06/euro-is-failed-currency-says-toronto.html

I think this is a genuine and friendly move from Romania.

I am also certain that Romania is well placed to become the next big player in the region. The amount of interests from foreign business and investment leaves the rest of the region behind.

I hope we have a new government in Serbia soon that can try to catch up.

Peter we know what your countries experienced with the USSR but guess what, its gone and Russia has changed for the better. Russia itself is far better off then 20 years ago.

And unlike Poland Serbia doesn't plan on integrating our economy with any one country but opening up to the world... a world that incidentally includes Russia. Why should we confine ourselves to the EU alone, I don't see any Polish or Czech products anywhere but Europe.

Probably that`s why the unemployment rate hits 20%...
(adrian, timisoara, romania, 17 June 2008 18:03)

Thats including Kosovo, alas we can't be held accountable for that part unfortunately it makes out economic reforms rather difficult. Lets not forget the decade of unjustified sanctions and war that Romania was lucky enough to not experience, a bit of a head start no? Not to undermine our Romanian friends but the cream of Romania's intellect and high skilled labor force has moved to more "western" residencies, which spells bad for the home country.

Peter Sudyka wrote:
"if you align with Russia, your economy will go down the toilet like all the other CEE countries who were blessed by Russian alliance and will do anything to get away from their influence"

Time will tell .. At least Russia doesn't Bomb the crap out of a "friend" then pretend to rebuild, with so called "donations" which are loans to be repaid by our children. EU=Central Control and No Freedom. Not everything is in Money, pride and freedom are more important. Those countries you mention have lost their souls now that their identity is gone and the citizens transformed into robots and consumers instead of individuals and citizens for a handful of US$. Its a shame but we still have respect for our former brothers in Romania, Bulgaria, Czech and Slovaks, hopefully they will be back with us, soon. :)

vencor wrote :
"The alternative strategic future Alexis envisages for Serbia is to be free of EU taxes and regulation, and to operate as an off-shore European investment centre, as was Hong Kong pre-absorption into China. Serbia could trade with the faster growing parts of the world - the BRIC - Brazil, Russia, India and China"

Thats exactly what we need to do and I have made these suggestions on previous posts. I am sceptical about the tax haven part but cooperation with South America and Russia/China is the path to go. These are the non-globalist countries and very rich in Natural Resources. We could be their corridor into Europe and I am sure we will find investors willing to finance that type of economy here.

Peter

And so too did the economies of the Soviet and Warsaw Pact nations accelerate during the two decades after WWII (and before) but it all came to a grinding halt.

It sounds to me like a case of déjà vu for all those new EU nations you mentioned. All signs are the western economies are beginning to crumble.

In the world of trading, there is a saying. Bears make money and Bulls make money but Pigs get slaughtered. The Pigs are the ones that keep changing sides just before a turning point.

Great article vencor. I don't believe Serbia should join the EU. Why should they? Anyways it hasn't hurt countries like Norway and Switzerland to not be in the EU. The facts are there to see - both of these countries are in the top 10 in the human development index. Let me remind you that countries like Romania, Bulgaria, Lithuania and Estonia are still around the 50's on the list.

If getting bombed, invaded and sanctioned by EU members is OK, they by all means - join them.

Duro

"Peter we know what your countries experienced with the USSR but guess what, its gone and Russia has changed for the better. Russia itself is far better off then 20 years ago. "

I am aware that Russia is doing much better now as well, but I think that even if they manage to overtake all the Western states, the CEE countries wouldn't even think about "going back" to their sphere of influence.

"And unlike Poland Serbia doesn't plan on integrating our economy with any one country but opening up to the world... a world that incidentally includes Russia. Why should we confine ourselves to the EU alone, I don't see any Polish or Czech products anywhere but Europe. "

Of course, no one is saying that the new CEE states shouldn't trade with Russia, that would be foolish, Poland maintains trade with Russia and it still is an important trade partner for us, but living under their economic model was the problem and what drove everyone away from them (Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova seem to be moving in our direction too lately).

"Time will tell .. At least Russia doesn't Bomb the crap out of a "friend" then pretend to rebuild, with so called "donations" which are loans to be repaid by our children. "

Well, I could argue Chechnya here, but true, Russia has done nothing wrong to Serbia. To Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia on the other hand...

"EU=Central Control and No Freedom. Not everything is in Money, pride and freedom are more important. Those countries you mention have lost their souls now that their identity is gone and the citizens transformed into robots and consumers instead of individuals and citizens for a handful of US$. "

Haha, sorry Dorcol, but this kind of nonsense is precisely the kind of propaganda that our government was shoving down our throats in the 70's and 80's, trying to convince us that the West is a degenerate, rotting, Capitalist hole. Let me just say to you that this kind of attitude has very bad memories for all the CEE countries and does not bode too well for Serbia, I think.

"Its a shame but we still have respect for our former brothers in Romania, Bulgaria, Czech and Slovaks, hopefully they will be back with us, soon. :) "

Wishful thinking, these four countries have never experienced this kind of economic progress, stability and forthcoming prosperity with the EU compared to before. I am sure the average Romanian or Bulgarian (I am not even talking about the Czechs and Slovaks) feels chills going up his/her spine thinking about how much worse it was in the past compared to how good it is slowly becoming in their countries and to how much better it will be in the future fir them.

"And so too did the economies of the Soviet and Warsaw Pact nations accelerate during the two decades after WWII (and before) but it all came to a grinding halt."

While the Western countries didn't come to a grinding halt. I think it is clear as to which is the more reliable "bloc" to belong to.

"It sounds to me like a case of déjà vu for all those new EU nations you mentioned. All signs are the western economies are beginning to crumble. "

Once again, this sort of thing was said by our government in the 70's and 80's too. Sorry ZK, but you know better than anyone that the living standards in the UK are far ahead of Serbia, having both countries as a reference. Maybe growth in the EU countries has slowed down over the years, but that can be expected, considering that those countries are almost fully developed, hence the idea of enlargement. Obviously BIRC (as they are called here) are showing far more impressive growth at the moment, but that is because they are far behind the EU in terms of development. Between 1 000 000 - 1 500 000 Serbs live in the EU, as opposed to roughly 5 000 in Russia, why do you think that is? I think you know.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In the end, no disprespect to Russia, I wish their people all the best after 70 years of Communism, but Serbia chosing them over the EU would be foolish.

"Not to undermine our Romanian friends but the cream of Romania's intellect and high skilled labor force has moved to more "western" residencies, which spells bad for the home country."

You are right on this, Duro. but there are still more serbian expats around then romanians. We already have serb "gastarbeiters". And they are welcome. But you still have some 18-20% unemployed. so, don`t tell me that Serbia is doing well, please!

Peter, what I am saying is that Poland may have joined the Western bloc during its Peak and times may not be so rosey in the future. The US debt is phenomenal and the western economies do not look so good.

Lets wait and see but I suspect you jumped onto a sinking ship. As for Serbia, I think it would do better out of the EU. It should still have economic links to it but also strengthen ties to the BRIC nations, which have only shown us respect.