Đelić: Serbia doing best to cooperate

So, Serbia is doing "everything in it's power" to comply with ICTY demands.

But what do we have in reality? A man arrested who may or may not be the right person!

But more importantly, accession to EU and SAA ratification is dependent on "full cooperation" - ie. Mladic not Župljanin.

So, if you are doing "everything in it's power" now, there can be - by definition - no further effort possible to deliver Mladic. Thus, what can a ZeS lead government do more than the current Kostunica lead government viz-a-vis ICTY and EU entry?

At last, it seems, a rare moment of honesty from a DS official.

I think Holland is being unusually harsh on Serbia with regards to this war criminal issue. No doubt they have a complex about Srebrenica.

I am convinced that BiH should be the country launching investigations into this, seeing as though RS is a part of it and this is where they are from. Milosevic is dead, the opposition in power, why should Serbia now be leading investigations into BiH related war crimes?

Its quite simply really - what we had at the election was a referendum on the EU.

It looks as if the Eurosceptics/ Europhobes lost.
Resolution of the SAA means sending suspects in Serbia to the Hague, that is the mandate that the DS coalition has.

SPS on the other hand, well I can understand anger or feelings of betrayal against them after this latest move.
I expect statements from SPS officials saying that they support the voluntary extradition of Hague suspects as a move towards signing the SAA. I don't think this view will cut much ice with their supporters though.

Let Holland be harsh on Serbia, it makes no difference. The next Serbian government will be able to resolve the Hague issue and put it to bed for once and for all. That sword need not loom above whilst we have the Kosovo issue to deal with.

Willie I can't understand whether you are critical of DS policy on the Hague or whether you are against the extradition of Hague suspects. Which is it? I also don't understand your view that the next likely government will be as ineffective as the previous one at resolving this issue. Notice I say resolving, that is not necessarily the same as extradition.

After this arrest I'd say that the message is clear what the probable next government will do on the Hague suspects issue.

BTW its obvious what 'everything in its power' means. Kostunica is still in power, his yes man Bulatovic is still in charge of BIA. Jocic is still police minister. At the moment DS are doing everything in their limited power.

Hello bganon,

I disagree with your first sentence entirely: Its quite simply really - what we had at the election was a referendum on the EU.

A referendum on the EU was indeed how the ZeS framed their election campaign, but not the basis of the campaign itself. Equally, if not more weight was attached to the Kosovo issue. Saying it is "quite simple really" when it is not the case - indicates, perhaps, a determination by you to rewrite history.

Moreover, the "narodnjaci" didn't lose. Please remind yourself what percentage ZeS and LDP achieved of the popular vote. Was it greater or less than 50%. Again, it seems, you are of the opinion that if you push your wishful thinking enough times, people will forever believe it as fact.

DS policy on the Hague:
Neither. My position remains unchanged. I do not see that DS has it in its power to comply with ICTY any more so than Kostunica. It may 'wish' more cooperation, but that does not necessarily translate into 'ability'. The Dutch, Belgians et al are looking for action not words.

Today we have Zupljanin delivered by a Kostunica lead government, with (as you point out) a BIA run by Bulatovic and a MUP nominally lead by Jocic. Tell me bganon, do you believe that Mladic will be in the Hague by the end of this year? Because that's what the EU wants, and that's what is expected of DS. Zupljanin is just games, like all the other before.

But I just love your interpretation of Delic's words to Solana. :)

Willie it is indeed simple. DS campaigned on full steam ahead with European integration. DSS on the other hand made the rejection of SAA the centrepiece of their campaign. It surely must be known by everybody by now that in order to pass the SAA the suspected war criminal issue must be resolved. People are not stupid, many of those that voted for DSS or SRS don't want to send any Serbs to the Hague. The fact is that the next government either has a mandate to resolve Hague co-operation or to reject it - depending on who wins.

Now you are introducing the impossible figure of 50 percent to define a winner. Willie you are taking the michael, really. Do you mean to say that every election result in history that doesn't involve one party gaining more than 50 percent of the vote has not had a winner and a loser? Absurd.

Aha you have also shifted the goalposts by saying that the Narodnjaci didn't lose. I thought we had already agreed that the parties that form the government will be the winners and vice versa. I'll hold you to that statement, whilst reminding you that the narodnjaci did lose. SRS are not part of that coalition. Narodnjaci refers only to the DSS-NS ticket which indeed did lose votes as we both agreed.

So Willie you support the extradition of suspected war criminals to the Hague? And you are not critical of DS Hague policy? So what is the problem exactly? You want to criticise a government that hasn't even been sworn in yet, and that after Zupo was apprehended.

I don't have a clue about where Mladic will be by the end of the year.

But with Mladic's poor health the issue may even resolve itself.

Peter:

There seem to be a number of reasons why RS is off the hook here: (1)the EU fear that any obstinance on the part of Banja Luka would prevent BiH as a whole from gaining EU entry; (2)Serbia is much more capable of apprehending these guys; (3)Serbia is more often/likely the country in which they're believed to be hiding; (4)the RS security forces quite possibly take their marching orders from Serbia anyway; and (5) Belgrade is widely believed by EU member countries to be the primary driver of the war in BiH from the beginning, and as such, ultimately responsible for delivering all Serbian suspects.

Yaroslav,

You're right about the ICJ...thanks for reminding me on that point. So, Peter, definitely take #5 off the list as a result of the official (though probably not very well respected) genocide ruling in the BiH v. Serbia case. I don't think you could remove # 4, though, as that's a realistic factor liable to influence EU foreign policy.

The ICJ ruled that Serbia had no responsibility for what happenned in BiH. As a result the Serbia can tell the EU to shove it if they use reasons #4 & #5.

Hello bganon,

ELECTION THEME.
I agree the DS theme was EU or not. Others had a different theme for which the EU played a cameo role, but to enter or not was NOT the central theme.

WINNERS & LOSERS.
Errrm. In politics, winning is about forming a government and enacting one's own chosen policies. That translates, under the Serbian system, to gaining 50% of the vote and 126 or greater seats in parliament. ZeS does not have that, cannot form its own government, and must thus compromise on its policies by allowing others into a coalition. ZeS has not won. Nobody has won.

Please do hold me to that statement. If ZeS forms a government with SPS-PUPS-JS and the minoritie parties, then AND ONLY then, can it claim a modicum of victory.

NARODNJACI.
This is a word I used (in addition to Zabavnici) to describe the two opposing blocs seeking power. I first used this about 2-3 weeks ago on B92. I notice some papers have started to use the same phrase concerning DSS-NS alone. I see no reason why I should change my definition simple because others have picked up on the idea with a slight tweak.

ICTY COOPERATION.
Yes and No. The answer depends within which context you frame the question.

If joining the EU is Serbia's Holy Grail - at the expense of all else - then yes.

If being seen to meet all international obligations - even at the expense of the consequences - then yes.

If you consider the EU is a false dawn, and Serbia would be better off following Swiss/Norwegian model of close trading partners but not members, then perhaps, no.

If one views ICTY as a failed organisation - which it is according to its own initial aims - and that it is now counter-productive to those initial goals, then no.

Take your pick.

MLADIC's WHEREABOUTS.
Of course you don't know where he is or where he will be in 6 months. And nor does the DS. Which is precisely the point I'm making. The EU wants Mladic, not fine words that all is being done to find him. If DS can't deliver, the EU door remains closed.

I think Holland is being unusually harsh on Serbia with regards to this war criminal issue. No doubt they have a complex about Srebrenica.

I am convinced that BiH should be the country launching investigations into this, seeing as though RS is a part of it and this is where they are from. Milosevic is dead, the opposition in power, why should Serbia now be leading investigations into BiH related war crimes?

So, Serbia is doing "everything in it's power" to comply with ICTY demands.

But what do we have in reality? A man arrested who may or may not be the right person!

But more importantly, accession to EU and SAA ratification is dependent on "full cooperation" - ie. Mladic not Župljanin.

So, if you are doing "everything in it's power" now, there can be - by definition - no further effort possible to deliver Mladic. Thus, what can a ZeS lead government do more than the current Kostunica lead government viz-a-vis ICTY and EU entry?

At last, it seems, a rare moment of honesty from a DS official.

Its quite simply really - what we had at the election was a referendum on the EU.

It looks as if the Eurosceptics/ Europhobes lost.
Resolution of the SAA means sending suspects in Serbia to the Hague, that is the mandate that the DS coalition has.

SPS on the other hand, well I can understand anger or feelings of betrayal against them after this latest move.
I expect statements from SPS officials saying that they support the voluntary extradition of Hague suspects as a move towards signing the SAA. I don't think this view will cut much ice with their supporters though.

Let Holland be harsh on Serbia, it makes no difference. The next Serbian government will be able to resolve the Hague issue and put it to bed for once and for all. That sword need not loom above whilst we have the Kosovo issue to deal with.

Willie I can't understand whether you are critical of DS policy on the Hague or whether you are against the extradition of Hague suspects. Which is it? I also don't understand your view that the next likely government will be as ineffective as the previous one at resolving this issue. Notice I say resolving, that is not necessarily the same as extradition.

After this arrest I'd say that the message is clear what the probable next government will do on the Hague suspects issue.

BTW its obvious what 'everything in its power' means. Kostunica is still in power, his yes man Bulatovic is still in charge of BIA. Jocic is still police minister. At the moment DS are doing everything in their limited power.

Hello bganon,

I disagree with your first sentence entirely: Its quite simply really - what we had at the election was a referendum on the EU.

A referendum on the EU was indeed how the ZeS framed their election campaign, but not the basis of the campaign itself. Equally, if not more weight was attached to the Kosovo issue. Saying it is "quite simple really" when it is not the case - indicates, perhaps, a determination by you to rewrite history.

Moreover, the "narodnjaci" didn't lose. Please remind yourself what percentage ZeS and LDP achieved of the popular vote. Was it greater or less than 50%. Again, it seems, you are of the opinion that if you push your wishful thinking enough times, people will forever believe it as fact.

DS policy on the Hague:
Neither. My position remains unchanged. I do not see that DS has it in its power to comply with ICTY any more so than Kostunica. It may 'wish' more cooperation, but that does not necessarily translate into 'ability'. The Dutch, Belgians et al are looking for action not words.

Today we have Zupljanin delivered by a Kostunica lead government, with (as you point out) a BIA run by Bulatovic and a MUP nominally lead by Jocic. Tell me bganon, do you believe that Mladic will be in the Hague by the end of this year? Because that's what the EU wants, and that's what is expected of DS. Zupljanin is just games, like all the other before.

But I just love your interpretation of Delic's words to Solana. :)

Willie it is indeed simple. DS campaigned on full steam ahead with European integration. DSS on the other hand made the rejection of SAA the centrepiece of their campaign. It surely must be known by everybody by now that in order to pass the SAA the suspected war criminal issue must be resolved. People are not stupid, many of those that voted for DSS or SRS don't want to send any Serbs to the Hague. The fact is that the next government either has a mandate to resolve Hague co-operation or to reject it - depending on who wins.

Now you are introducing the impossible figure of 50 percent to define a winner. Willie you are taking the michael, really. Do you mean to say that every election result in history that doesn't involve one party gaining more than 50 percent of the vote has not had a winner and a loser? Absurd.

Aha you have also shifted the goalposts by saying that the Narodnjaci didn't lose. I thought we had already agreed that the parties that form the government will be the winners and vice versa. I'll hold you to that statement, whilst reminding you that the narodnjaci did lose. SRS are not part of that coalition. Narodnjaci refers only to the DSS-NS ticket which indeed did lose votes as we both agreed.

So Willie you support the extradition of suspected war criminals to the Hague? And you are not critical of DS Hague policy? So what is the problem exactly? You want to criticise a government that hasn't even been sworn in yet, and that after Zupo was apprehended.

I don't have a clue about where Mladic will be by the end of the year.

But with Mladic's poor health the issue may even resolve itself.

Peter:

There seem to be a number of reasons why RS is off the hook here: (1)the EU fear that any obstinance on the part of Banja Luka would prevent BiH as a whole from gaining EU entry; (2)Serbia is much more capable of apprehending these guys; (3)Serbia is more often/likely the country in which they're believed to be hiding; (4)the RS security forces quite possibly take their marching orders from Serbia anyway; and (5) Belgrade is widely believed by EU member countries to be the primary driver of the war in BiH from the beginning, and as such, ultimately responsible for delivering all Serbian suspects.

The ICJ ruled that Serbia had no responsibility for what happenned in BiH. As a result the Serbia can tell the EU to shove it if they use reasons #4 & #5.

Hello bganon,

ELECTION THEME.
I agree the DS theme was EU or not. Others had a different theme for which the EU played a cameo role, but to enter or not was NOT the central theme.

WINNERS & LOSERS.
Errrm. In politics, winning is about forming a government and enacting one's own chosen policies. That translates, under the Serbian system, to gaining 50% of the vote and 126 or greater seats in parliament. ZeS does not have that, cannot form its own government, and must thus compromise on its policies by allowing others into a coalition. ZeS has not won. Nobody has won.

Please do hold me to that statement. If ZeS forms a government with SPS-PUPS-JS and the minoritie parties, then AND ONLY then, can it claim a modicum of victory.

NARODNJACI.
This is a word I used (in addition to Zabavnici) to describe the two opposing blocs seeking power. I first used this about 2-3 weeks ago on B92. I notice some papers have started to use the same phrase concerning DSS-NS alone. I see no reason why I should change my definition simple because others have picked up on the idea with a slight tweak.

ICTY COOPERATION.
Yes and No. The answer depends within which context you frame the question.

If joining the EU is Serbia's Holy Grail - at the expense of all else - then yes.

If being seen to meet all international obligations - even at the expense of the consequences - then yes.

If you consider the EU is a false dawn, and Serbia would be better off following Swiss/Norwegian model of close trading partners but not members, then perhaps, no.

If one views ICTY as a failed organisation - which it is according to its own initial aims - and that it is now counter-productive to those initial goals, then no.

Take your pick.

MLADIC's WHEREABOUTS.
Of course you don't know where he is or where he will be in 6 months. And nor does the DS. Which is precisely the point I'm making. The EU wants Mladic, not fine words that all is being done to find him. If DS can't deliver, the EU door remains closed.

Yaroslav,

You're right about the ICJ...thanks for reminding me on that point. So, Peter, definitely take #5 off the list as a result of the official (though probably not very well respected) genocide ruling in the BiH v. Serbia case. I don't think you could remove # 4, though, as that's a realistic factor liable to influence EU foreign policy.