"Russia won't change Macedonia stance"

Two cap mountains in the Middle East are usually called El Bors i.e womans breast. There are two American states named Georgia (one in Caucasus) and there are a lot of districts and regions all over the world with the same names. So I don't know what's the sence for our Greek brothers to press upon the Ortodox Macedonians ! Besides they are also pressed by Sofia to consider them as a sort of Bulgarians. So they really face with self identification problem and it's not something the Balkanes should receive a new hot point for.

Wait now.
What is missing here? What is it that noone commented on?
Read carefully please.
B92's article says:
"Branko Crvenkovski's comments came Saturday after his meeting in St. Petersburg with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.
Macedonian media report that Medvedev reiterated Moscow's position over the former Yugoslav republic's name..."

Now add to the above this:
"Saint Petersburg, June 7 (MIA) - The Russian Federation will remain consistent to its position of using Republic of Macedonia's constitutional name, said Saturday President Branko Crvenkovski after meeting Russian counterpart Dmitry Medvedev.
"He assured me that regardless of certain requirements from Greece that have continually reached Moscow, the Russian Federation will not alter its principle position. The decision that was passed once will be respected in the upcoming period, i.e. the constitutional name of our country will be respected", said President Crvenkovski"

What is still missing here?
The Russian President's own comment. What the reporters have is Crvenkofski's comments only.

Besides that. Read this phrase carefully:
"The decision that was passed once will be respected in the upcoming period, i.e. the constitutional name of our country will be respected"

Keywords here:
upcoming period, the constitutional name.

Upcoming period means for a time ahead, but not forever. Constitutional names change.

And I will also ask you this.
1. Why there isnt any similar press release from the Russian part?
2. If ever fyrom enters nato, this will not be in Russia's best interest. Russia has every reason for fyrom to stay out of nato. By supporting fyrom's side, is pressuring Greece. And if Greece gives in, then fyrom enters nato, something that Russia doesnt want.

In any case. Think of the very important keyword "upcoming period" which in diplomatic language means for some more time.

As for the Dimitraki :)
You should pray that Obama doesnt win this election. Because if he does, you are lost. Just remember my words in the future :)

Peter,
after Sarkozy's speech, you should have seen that Greece is not alone in this. And will never be alone since right is on our side :)
@Orthodox
Its not a matter of religious brotherhood of any kind.
Our history, our ancestors and our heritage is one thing that noone can take from us.
As from pressure from Sofia, I couldnt care less.

There are some "minor" things you people should have in mind.
1. Greece still has veto power in both EU and nato. And now its not only Greece on the EU veto against fyrom.
2. Greece has all the time in her hands, as had for the last 7-8000 years of her history. Fyrom on the other hand has no time in her hands, as never had since there was ever such a state.
So sit down, calm down, think and after all of the above, be honest and admit you were misled. We have a big heart and will easily forgive you :)

Bravo! Russia has shown itself to be principled on both Kosovo and Macedonia!
Of course, Greece will continue its historic goal, appropriation of our name, heritage and land at any cost!

Next stop, Obama!

I have a little idea, how to make ties closer, more Macedonian business and tourists in Russia and same the other way. It's a simple idea: abolish the evil "quasi-visa" regime mutually. The current passport regime between ALL countries of SFRJ and ALL CIS countries (esp. Russia and Ukraina) needs to be flushed down the toilet.

As grave the danger of Macedonian spies lurking in Moscow is, the danger of Russian tourists taking a walk in Ohrid or transiting Macedonia by train to Greece is even bigger.

How is it done currently?

- For citizens of Crna Gora and Serbia there is no visa necessary to be in passport if they go to Ukraine, Belarus, Russia. They don't need any paperwork to travel to Belarus, but for Ukraine and Russia they need invitation from private person (done via UVIR) or hotel vaucher or confirmed tickets for transit.
- Citizens of Croatia, Macedonia, Bosnia regarding Ukraine, Belarus, Russia always need either paperwork from UVIR or vaucher (most of the time fake vauchers are used!) or confirmed tickets for transit.

Same (except Bosnia) applies the "other way".

If Belarus and Bosnia can do, why Russia or Macedonia or Serbia cannot?

My guess is, no one really cares, except the involved. And guess what: if there is no invitation (only arrival stamp) need for Russians and Macedonians to visit Thailand or Turkiye, where people will go?

What Macedonians need to realize, for a family of four who lives, say, in Sverdlovsk to visit Ohrid during the Summer is CHEAPER than visit Crimea - the train tickets cost LESS. People would accept the necessity to get a Hungarian transit visa - but to get some silly Serbian and Macedonian papers is simply too much. They will just swallow and go to Crimea, even if it costs more. There is no Serbian or Macedonian consulate outside of Moscow and SPB - and Russia is much more than only SPB and Moscow.

Same applies the other way - with the except, Russia is not a very cheap place to stay, except the rural part of it. Precisely here there is much to do.

Last but not the least: Ukrainians do not even need a passport to travel to Russia, only ID. Why are they "less dangerous" than Macedonians (or Serbs or Bosnains or..) beats my logic. But Russian MID has always it's own logic... :(

Write letters, protest, let the ministers of foreign affairs learn your opinion.

He tried so hard.. yet his efforts did not bare any fruits.. oh well.. next please, enough with the so called name negotiations.. I think the Macedonian government should press for recognition of the Macedonian minority within present day extended Athenian borders in order to form good neighbourly relations, additionally exiled Macedonians should have the rite to reclaim the land, and it's high time the Athenians start working towards implementing a democratic system. Enough with the beating of truck drivers, Greek border gaurds forcing Macedonian truck drivers to clean the border post before allowed entry in Vardar Macedonia, the beating of mentally ill people.. this all sounds like NAZI Germany to me.. not the EU...

Fair Go...

Russian president did not say something new. He just said the obvious, that Russia will not change it's behaviour, until an agreement is reached between the two countries. But why, my fellow FYROMians are so happy??

You will change your name - in less than 6 months - either you like it or not! And you know this deep inside... that's why you are pissed off with Greece.

Your prime minister Gruevski, ALREADY AGREED on changing your constitutional name to RoM - Skopia. The reason this did not happen is because Greece did not like that name.... but GRUEVSKY HAD AGREE ALREADY!

So what makes you believe that he will not agree to change it again???

Either you like it or not, you either change your name (WHICH YOU WILL VERY SOON). or stop existing as a country!

We in Greece can wait... you cannot, because the Albanians might destroy you soon and you know it! :)

I still cannot understand this issue. How can a people change their identity and name because another country does not want to call themselves that? This is really getting stupid now, no offense to the Greeks.

I agree with Russia 100%.

Russia will never change Macedonias name just to satisfy Greece.Greece has no right to demand of Macedonia in this respect.Greece is alone on this issue,will not succeed.

Russian president did not say something new. He just said the obvious, that Russia will not change it's behaviour, until an agreement is reached between the two countries. But why, my fellow FYROMians are so happy??

You will change your name - in less than 6 months - either you like it or not! And you know this deep inside... that's why you are pissed off with Greece.

Your prime minister Gruevski, ALREADY AGREED on changing your constitutional name to RoM - Skopia. The reason this did not happen is because Greece did not like that name.... but GRUEVSKY HAD AGREE ALREADY!

So what makes you believe that he will not agree to change it again???

Either you like it or not, you either change your name (WHICH YOU WILL VERY SOON). or stop existing as a country!

We in Greece can wait... you cannot, because the Albanians might destroy you soon and you know it! :)

I have a little idea, how to make ties closer, more Macedonian business and tourists in Russia and same the other way. It's a simple idea: abolish the evil "quasi-visa" regime mutually. The current passport regime between ALL countries of SFRJ and ALL CIS countries (esp. Russia and Ukraina) needs to be flushed down the toilet.

As grave the danger of Macedonian spies lurking in Moscow is, the danger of Russian tourists taking a walk in Ohrid or transiting Macedonia by train to Greece is even bigger.

How is it done currently?

- For citizens of Crna Gora and Serbia there is no visa necessary to be in passport if they go to Ukraine, Belarus, Russia. They don't need any paperwork to travel to Belarus, but for Ukraine and Russia they need invitation from private person (done via UVIR) or hotel vaucher or confirmed tickets for transit.
- Citizens of Croatia, Macedonia, Bosnia regarding Ukraine, Belarus, Russia always need either paperwork from UVIR or vaucher (most of the time fake vauchers are used!) or confirmed tickets for transit.

Same (except Bosnia) applies the "other way".

If Belarus and Bosnia can do, why Russia or Macedonia or Serbia cannot?

My guess is, no one really cares, except the involved. And guess what: if there is no invitation (only arrival stamp) need for Russians and Macedonians to visit Thailand or Turkiye, where people will go?

What Macedonians need to realize, for a family of four who lives, say, in Sverdlovsk to visit Ohrid during the Summer is CHEAPER than visit Crimea - the train tickets cost LESS. People would accept the necessity to get a Hungarian transit visa - but to get some silly Serbian and Macedonian papers is simply too much. They will just swallow and go to Crimea, even if it costs more. There is no Serbian or Macedonian consulate outside of Moscow and SPB - and Russia is much more than only SPB and Moscow.

Same applies the other way - with the except, Russia is not a very cheap place to stay, except the rural part of it. Precisely here there is much to do.

Last but not the least: Ukrainians do not even need a passport to travel to Russia, only ID. Why are they "less dangerous" than Macedonians (or Serbs or Bosnains or..) beats my logic. But Russian MID has always it's own logic... :(

Write letters, protest, let the ministers of foreign affairs learn your opinion.

Bravo! Russia has shown itself to be principled on both Kosovo and Macedonia!
Of course, Greece will continue its historic goal, appropriation of our name, heritage and land at any cost!

Next stop, Obama!

He tried so hard.. yet his efforts did not bare any fruits.. oh well.. next please, enough with the so called name negotiations.. I think the Macedonian government should press for recognition of the Macedonian minority within present day extended Athenian borders in order to form good neighbourly relations, additionally exiled Macedonians should have the rite to reclaim the land, and it's high time the Athenians start working towards implementing a democratic system. Enough with the beating of truck drivers, Greek border gaurds forcing Macedonian truck drivers to clean the border post before allowed entry in Vardar Macedonia, the beating of mentally ill people.. this all sounds like NAZI Germany to me.. not the EU...

Fair Go...

Russia will never change Macedonias name just to satisfy Greece.Greece has no right to demand of Macedonia in this respect.Greece is alone on this issue,will not succeed.

Two cap mountains in the Middle East are usually called El Bors i.e womans breast. There are two American states named Georgia (one in Caucasus) and there are a lot of districts and regions all over the world with the same names. So I don't know what's the sence for our Greek brothers to press upon the Ortodox Macedonians ! Besides they are also pressed by Sofia to consider them as a sort of Bulgarians. So they really face with self identification problem and it's not something the Balkanes should receive a new hot point for.

Wait now.
What is missing here? What is it that noone commented on?
Read carefully please.
B92's article says:
"Branko Crvenkovski's comments came Saturday after his meeting in St. Petersburg with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.
Macedonian media report that Medvedev reiterated Moscow's position over the former Yugoslav republic's name..."

Now add to the above this:
"Saint Petersburg, June 7 (MIA) - The Russian Federation will remain consistent to its position of using Republic of Macedonia's constitutional name, said Saturday President Branko Crvenkovski after meeting Russian counterpart Dmitry Medvedev.
"He assured me that regardless of certain requirements from Greece that have continually reached Moscow, the Russian Federation will not alter its principle position. The decision that was passed once will be respected in the upcoming period, i.e. the constitutional name of our country will be respected", said President Crvenkovski"

What is still missing here?
The Russian President's own comment. What the reporters have is Crvenkofski's comments only.

Besides that. Read this phrase carefully:
"The decision that was passed once will be respected in the upcoming period, i.e. the constitutional name of our country will be respected"

Keywords here:
upcoming period, the constitutional name.

Upcoming period means for a time ahead, but not forever. Constitutional names change.

And I will also ask you this.
1. Why there isnt any similar press release from the Russian part?
2. If ever fyrom enters nato, this will not be in Russia's best interest. Russia has every reason for fyrom to stay out of nato. By supporting fyrom's side, is pressuring Greece. And if Greece gives in, then fyrom enters nato, something that Russia doesnt want.

In any case. Think of the very important keyword "upcoming period" which in diplomatic language means for some more time.

As for the Dimitraki :)
You should pray that Obama doesnt win this election. Because if he does, you are lost. Just remember my words in the future :)

Peter,
after Sarkozy's speech, you should have seen that Greece is not alone in this. And will never be alone since right is on our side :)
@Orthodox
Its not a matter of religious brotherhood of any kind.
Our history, our ancestors and our heritage is one thing that noone can take from us.
As from pressure from Sofia, I couldnt care less.

There are some "minor" things you people should have in mind.
1. Greece still has veto power in both EU and nato. And now its not only Greece on the EU veto against fyrom.
2. Greece has all the time in her hands, as had for the last 7-8000 years of her history. Fyrom on the other hand has no time in her hands, as never had since there was ever such a state.
So sit down, calm down, think and after all of the above, be honest and admit you were misled. We have a big heart and will easily forgive you :)

I still cannot understand this issue. How can a people change their identity and name because another country does not want to call themselves that? This is really getting stupid now, no offense to the Greeks.

I agree with Russia 100%.