Tadić calls for coalition with SPS at all levels

EA... for your information:

the "maths in the parliament" represent the true will of the poeple.

I don´t know whether you are familiar with the true meaning of democracy and the democratic principles, but let me assure you: there is no way to claim that what those elections in Serbia were not democratic. and that vote represents the true will of the serbian poeple, indeed.


may I point your attention to the fact, that there was no violent incident during the vote?

you will certainly remember what happened in the albanian populated areas of Macedonia?

A forensic audit after his party's fall will likely lead to investigations and open the way to his own removal as president.

Given these dangers, Tadic is following his U.S. advisors' instructions in a last-ditch effort to trick SPS leader Ivica Dacic into saving him. I do not think Dacic is that naive.

Tadic's Democratska Stranke (DS) has nothing to offer the Socialists that they can't get elsewhere. However it does threaten to take everything from Dacic's Socialists by disguising itself as a socially oriented party to steal voters from the Socialists. The idea that the shock-therapy G-17 economists within the DS have any kind of social orientation is absurd.

Tadic and his DS are tottering and when they fall, no one will be able to put their Humpty Dumpty together again.

Although the Socialists could form a government with either Tadic's DS or with the Radicals and Kostunica's DSS, the only combination that could become stronger in the next election would be the one with the Radicals and DSS as the Radicals will be able to demonstrate that they can be responsible partners in government. Once that hurdle is crossed, voters will give the Radicals a strong mandate in an election in late fall.

First, Tadic lied by spinning the election as if it had been a great DS victory. Second, he threatened unspecified actions to stop the formation of a government led by anyone other than his own party. Now he is groveling at the feet of the very same Socialists whom he previously attacked.

The lying was nothing new, Tadic's veiled threats of staging a presidential coup would be merely a next step after the coup of October 5th 2000. But Tadic's groveling today is a disgrace in the eyes of every freedom-loving self-respecting Serb in Serbia and around the world.

Sincerely,

John Bosnitch
Washington, DC
john.b@imcnews.com

Nothing to add Princip. This are developing as I expected, its not me who has been enthusiastically making wrong predictions and has to justify something.

The sticking point is as I pointed out before, Milosevic and family. SPS needs to behave more democratically and forget about the obsession with cult of personality. Communism and love of one leader has been consigned to the dustbin of history in today's modern society. I trust you agree with me.

As for Zivkovic's statement, that is a positive. Why? Tell me Princip, living in the UK you know of the concept of backbenchers or members of parties being criticising party policies right? Thats normal in democratic parties. What isn't normal are parties that are led in an autocratic way, where party members must always agree publicly with whatever the leader says. A sort of collective irresponsibility, where party interests are put about country. Everybody knows that decisions in your favoured party are made by a tiny group (Nikitovic, Kostunica and Mihajlov) the rank and file must obey. As for SRS, we know how that party is run. By the way, people also know how unhealthily obsessed your party is with controlling the secret services. I wonder if you could tell me why that is.

Tadic makes sense with his statements when he talks about the interest of the ordinary Serbian people who I think would be better off in EU like any other Balkan countries. BUT will the dark forces in Serbia such as Kostunica and Tomislav let him achieve that? Let's wait and see) The FACT is that most of the Serbian people voted for EU integration but will the maths in parliament overturn that real will? Let's wait and see! It is in the hands of Serbian political ellite to decide what path to take)

Tadic needs to persuade those more closer to home within DS ranks such aas former DS PM Zivkovic who recently stated;
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/in_focus.php?id=268&start=45&nav_id=50629

"The former prime minister also expected “some younger people who voted for the Socialist Party of Serbia (SPS) will realize that Europe is the future, and they will change sides.” "

& rounded off with;

"He said that during Zoran Đinđić’s leadership of the DS, there had never been “any such stupid idea as to form a government with the SPS.” "

- with such anti-SPS sentiment from senior DS memebers one need talk little of the friction from G17- let alone CanaK, Draskovic or Hungarian minority groups in such a coalition. Of course that is the clear intention stated by Zivkovic a coalition that is an unstable coalition that runs for no more then a year but time enough to grab the "younger" socialist vote!!!

Bganon - no comment noted! I suggest you rename your nom de guerre DSanon given your affinity!

Bganon or like I said maybe DSanon,

seeing as your familiar with UK governance I guess you would then think that Thatcher was completly and utterly bad for the UK given your view given the way se quelled dissent!.

That said can't help think that your applying a certain amount of '3 monkeys' persepective (speak, hear & see no evil) on the part of Tadic and DS with such a quote from yourself about "the rank and file must obey" when he is dictating for all within DS over who they will align with, what they will have to accept and turn a blind eye too including the Milosevic's - or like Tadic said the other day "I will decide" who PM will be http://xs4.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=50783 !!!

I would have to say that curently I do favour DSS who have stood ground on the territorial integrity of Serbia as opposed to what is clearly mere lip service for D yeS to all that Europe demands. In that respect I think Smile has been very eloquent in vocalising his 'Saul/Paul' like contempt of Double Standards (DS) who have said one thing in Serbia but ignore the constant attacks on Serbia's soverignity from their so called "friends of Serbia" - Solano, Rehn, Rupel, de Gucht et al!!!

One question Bganon Serbia in the EU does that mean Serbia with or without Kosovo & Metohija for you???

Princip, yes I would say that Thatcher was utterly divisive for British society and was responsible for the destruction of the British manufacturing industry. With hindsight some reforms were perhaps 'necessary', but only because other competitive economies are adopting the same model. I prefer a society not ruled by the profit motive. Am I to take it that you were a supporter of Thatcher and her free market, right wing policies? Oh and her position on Yugoslavia is just further evidence of her stupidity. But I suppose if you are consistent in your right wing thinking you were a fan of hers.

Perhaps you might want to tell me if you agree with collective (ir)responbility in the party system? Whether you think having a different opinion from the hierarchy is a good or bad thing? I'd be happy to hear of a member of DSS is unafraid to speak openly about the lurch to the right, because plenty are willing to talk about it in private. None are willing to speak up in meetings, with the exception of Jankovic, that you should know something about, seeing as he was UK Ambassador. He won't be foreign secretary now, despite the promise, but he stepped out of line, so he deserved it right?

Your last question is flawed of course. There is no choice, Kosovo is a part of Serbia according to 1244 and Serbian integration into the EU implies the whole of Serbia.

There isn't a chance that you will cut the childish comments out is there? Name calling is not necessary.

Thatcher was a god send to the UK, she crippled the Unionists who were threatening the stability and economy of the country at gun point, her reforms were the main reason the UK never suffered a recession along with the rest of Europe during her time and she completely turned around the country after Labour in the 70’s nearly bankrupt the country, a cycle repeating yet again.

Thatcher was one of those leaders who was needed at ‘that moment in time’.

As for the DS, internally it is very weak, it’s a group who are collected together through fear or through self interest. Ethnic groups who have been promised more, similar to the PSOE party in Spain with its promises to regions like Catalonia, it has given more power to and Labour with Scotland etc.. all of which have a taste of more and now want to push for total independence more so. So much for the EU dream that good economics bring stability.

Then the liberals, the willing DS partners, LDP, who like in the UK are a waste of space and will oppress every free thought a human being could muster to fit someone’s utopian dream of a country, even if it means sacrificing who you are, you don’t want a profit society? Then why vote for the DS? It is a one way trip to sell your countries soul.

By the way, now is a great time to join the EU if you are a DS supporter, with the EU looking to stamp its own brand and new cultural history to wipe clean those of the countries within it. Since that is the easiest way to move forward if you an apologist Serb, start fresh and pretend the past (mostly a lie imposed upon westerners and some Serbs regarding Serbia’s past) never happened with a pot of gold as your reward.

Bganon,
interesting to see you have a keen interest in UK politics over the last 20/30 years. You assuage wrongly over my poltical perspective through the example I used - I could have equally (and almost did) suggest "Thatcher and Blair" given the way they quelled dissent. So it is not a reflection of my personal political slant. comprehend parties and their politics more then you understand my political persuasion. On the contrary I was challenging your blinkered viewpoint that you quickly apply to anyone but Tadic/D yeS. Yet, what you suggested "the rank and file must obey" is just as reflective of them and I, I, "I decide" Tadic - but you choose to ignore that point!

More over by omitting Blair http://www.lewrockwell.com/pilger/pilger20.html in my comment it gave more insight to your opinions so I am glad I omitted Blair given the insight it provided.

Sure DSS has its failings just like any party anywhere but their principle remains Serbia with Kosovo & Methohija first and then lets get on with devlopment in the interest of all. What state are you developing if you don't clarify that first and foremost and more importantly question and ask for corrections from so-called "friends of Serbia" such as Solano time and again he and other EUcrats insult Serbia's sovereignty and time and again Tadic and D yes let them off - why???? The obvious question to put to Solano & Co. and ascertain once and for all what does he mean by Serbia - with or without Kosovo? Moreover now is the time to set this right not when Tadic ends his presidency and has allowed this to continue and set in process and stone - that seems to be his plan!! You may feel De gucht as Belguim FM is insignificant but you comprehend his message and I am certain you are intelligent enough to fully appreciate his sentiment is reflective of all that act aginst 1244 in illegal recognition. Moreover, Tadic's acceptance without question of this stance sets Serbia in the path opposite to what is spun !!!

All that comes out of DS and its coalition is complcit submissiveness to any and all demands placed on Serbia by the EUcrats who lets be honest seem far removed from the interets of ordinary folk in the EU let alone having the slightest concern for Serbian society at large - but you can continue to believe in your Imperial God-fathers who dicate for self interest alone and not that of "social inclusion" - its almost a paradox tht your creating for yourself!!

So your poltical leanings really fall flat with such a future goverenment since you will find that under that scenario (if it occurs - because lets face it thats politics) will throw just enough scraps to appease and give off the impression of 'social inclusion' but while the real work of development at the cost of greater inequality exacerbates. Comprehend Blair was just as good at following in Thatchers footsetps in terms of the divisiveness of a nation but was a great deal more polished (lets say) at obfuscating reality!!! On that Tadic seems no different (he has learnt well) in all he says or has shown through his lack of actions but continues the spin. That I would suggest if you really are true to "I prefer a society not ruled by the profit motive" will mean a tough learning lessen not just for you but for Serbians as a whole but then maybe you know you'll be better placed then most to help ones self!!!

Personally I have no poltial goalposts but have one over riding principle when I comment here and that remains Serbia with Kosovo & Metohija first and foremost hence my viewpoint is seen as close to that of DSS. Lets just put it that Eucrats play a mean fiddle with contracts. Your either complicit in total awareness of this contract for the future in say 3/4 years time when it will be shown fully or a total numpty to not comprehend the full implications of it. I'd of thought your intelligent enough to have worked out the details and that makes me question your sincerity of "I prefer a society not ruled by the profit motive".

I'd also add that is quite a naive statement (maybe even disingeneous given your acceptance of G17 partnership) but more importantly since profit is not the bad element persay but what becomes of it and how it is distributed is the deciding factor! Profit in itself is not the 'enemy' of an economy or state but who controls it, what is done with it and how few its distributed amongst!

there was never an election in Serbia asking: EU - yes or no? - because this would be not possible. each party would say yes, BUT ...

it looks, lik most of citizens of Serbia have no idea of EU and what it would mean for the country. the theme is used by all parties as a tool to gain votes - each party has created it's own EU-mish-mash theory.

the last elections were neither for nor against EU - this question was not asked. the election were about power in Serbian parliament - and that's the reason why the result shows no clear direction - because the question was about anything else: whom would you like to vote into a government?

a powerful opposition would give a chance to gain the power and credibilty for to succeed next elections with a majority. a coalition with SPS is no solution - neither for the country's internal problems nor on international level. SPS will break away, as soon as economical reforms are to be decided - and they will defend the status quo - even when it drives Serbia more and more in economical crises.

a government without DS will not remain for long.

It is deplorable to hear anyone put Zoran Djindjic and Slobodan Milosevic on equal footing - let alone a person who has the ambition to personify a new, European Serbia.
Congratulations, Mr. Tadic! Good night, Serbia!

Jovan,

"The maths" in real politics can be real dangerous because in paraliament can be real strange combination that will not last too long. Tell me one thing how it comes that Tadic party was most voted in the last Serbian general elections? Tell me why in Serbia it takes so long to form a government and soon after you have general election? I am talking about really reading the people's vote.

I can tell you something. There were also used political maths used in the Albanian parliament when the President Topi was elected but he also was the most voted person and popular according to all polls.
Can you see the difference?

Tadic makes sense with his statements when he talks about the interest of the ordinary Serbian people who I think would be better off in EU like any other Balkan countries. BUT will the dark forces in Serbia such as Kostunica and Tomislav let him achieve that? Let's wait and see) The FACT is that most of the Serbian people voted for EU integration but will the maths in parliament overturn that real will? Let's wait and see! It is in the hands of Serbian political ellite to decide what path to take)

there was never an election in Serbia asking: EU - yes or no? - because this would be not possible. each party would say yes, BUT ...

it looks, lik most of citizens of Serbia have no idea of EU and what it would mean for the country. the theme is used by all parties as a tool to gain votes - each party has created it's own EU-mish-mash theory.

the last elections were neither for nor against EU - this question was not asked. the election were about power in Serbian parliament - and that's the reason why the result shows no clear direction - because the question was about anything else: whom would you like to vote into a government?

a powerful opposition would give a chance to gain the power and credibilty for to succeed next elections with a majority. a coalition with SPS is no solution - neither for the country's internal problems nor on international level. SPS will break away, as soon as economical reforms are to be decided - and they will defend the status quo - even when it drives Serbia more and more in economical crises.

a government without DS will not remain for long.

It is deplorable to hear anyone put Zoran Djindjic and Slobodan Milosevic on equal footing - let alone a person who has the ambition to personify a new, European Serbia.
Congratulations, Mr. Tadic! Good night, Serbia!

Nothing to add Princip. This are developing as I expected, its not me who has been enthusiastically making wrong predictions and has to justify something.

The sticking point is as I pointed out before, Milosevic and family. SPS needs to behave more democratically and forget about the obsession with cult of personality. Communism and love of one leader has been consigned to the dustbin of history in today's modern society. I trust you agree with me.

As for Zivkovic's statement, that is a positive. Why? Tell me Princip, living in the UK you know of the concept of backbenchers or members of parties being criticising party policies right? Thats normal in democratic parties. What isn't normal are parties that are led in an autocratic way, where party members must always agree publicly with whatever the leader says. A sort of collective irresponsibility, where party interests are put about country. Everybody knows that decisions in your favoured party are made by a tiny group (Nikitovic, Kostunica and Mihajlov) the rank and file must obey. As for SRS, we know how that party is run. By the way, people also know how unhealthily obsessed your party is with controlling the secret services. I wonder if you could tell me why that is.

EA... for your information:

the "maths in the parliament" represent the true will of the poeple.

I don´t know whether you are familiar with the true meaning of democracy and the democratic principles, but let me assure you: there is no way to claim that what those elections in Serbia were not democratic. and that vote represents the true will of the serbian poeple, indeed.


may I point your attention to the fact, that there was no violent incident during the vote?

you will certainly remember what happened in the albanian populated areas of Macedonia?

A forensic audit after his party's fall will likely lead to investigations and open the way to his own removal as president.

Given these dangers, Tadic is following his U.S. advisors' instructions in a last-ditch effort to trick SPS leader Ivica Dacic into saving him. I do not think Dacic is that naive.

Tadic's Democratska Stranke (DS) has nothing to offer the Socialists that they can't get elsewhere. However it does threaten to take everything from Dacic's Socialists by disguising itself as a socially oriented party to steal voters from the Socialists. The idea that the shock-therapy G-17 economists within the DS have any kind of social orientation is absurd.

Tadic and his DS are tottering and when they fall, no one will be able to put their Humpty Dumpty together again.

Although the Socialists could form a government with either Tadic's DS or with the Radicals and Kostunica's DSS, the only combination that could become stronger in the next election would be the one with the Radicals and DSS as the Radicals will be able to demonstrate that they can be responsible partners in government. Once that hurdle is crossed, voters will give the Radicals a strong mandate in an election in late fall.

First, Tadic lied by spinning the election as if it had been a great DS victory. Second, he threatened unspecified actions to stop the formation of a government led by anyone other than his own party. Now he is groveling at the feet of the very same Socialists whom he previously attacked.

The lying was nothing new, Tadic's veiled threats of staging a presidential coup would be merely a next step after the coup of October 5th 2000. But Tadic's groveling today is a disgrace in the eyes of every freedom-loving self-respecting Serb in Serbia and around the world.

Sincerely,

John Bosnitch
Washington, DC
john.b@imcnews.com

Tadic needs to persuade those more closer to home within DS ranks such aas former DS PM Zivkovic who recently stated;
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/in_focus.php?id=268&start=45&nav_id=50629

"The former prime minister also expected “some younger people who voted for the Socialist Party of Serbia (SPS) will realize that Europe is the future, and they will change sides.” "

& rounded off with;

"He said that during Zoran Đinđić’s leadership of the DS, there had never been “any such stupid idea as to form a government with the SPS.” "

- with such anti-SPS sentiment from senior DS memebers one need talk little of the friction from G17- let alone CanaK, Draskovic or Hungarian minority groups in such a coalition. Of course that is the clear intention stated by Zivkovic a coalition that is an unstable coalition that runs for no more then a year but time enough to grab the "younger" socialist vote!!!

Bganon - no comment noted! I suggest you rename your nom de guerre DSanon given your affinity!

Jovan,

"The maths" in real politics can be real dangerous because in paraliament can be real strange combination that will not last too long. Tell me one thing how it comes that Tadic party was most voted in the last Serbian general elections? Tell me why in Serbia it takes so long to form a government and soon after you have general election? I am talking about really reading the people's vote.

I can tell you something. There were also used political maths used in the Albanian parliament when the President Topi was elected but he also was the most voted person and popular according to all polls.
Can you see the difference?

Bganon or like I said maybe DSanon,

seeing as your familiar with UK governance I guess you would then think that Thatcher was completly and utterly bad for the UK given your view given the way se quelled dissent!.

That said can't help think that your applying a certain amount of '3 monkeys' persepective (speak, hear & see no evil) on the part of Tadic and DS with such a quote from yourself about "the rank and file must obey" when he is dictating for all within DS over who they will align with, what they will have to accept and turn a blind eye too including the Milosevic's - or like Tadic said the other day "I will decide" who PM will be http://xs4.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=50783 !!!

I would have to say that curently I do favour DSS who have stood ground on the territorial integrity of Serbia as opposed to what is clearly mere lip service for D yeS to all that Europe demands. In that respect I think Smile has been very eloquent in vocalising his 'Saul/Paul' like contempt of Double Standards (DS) who have said one thing in Serbia but ignore the constant attacks on Serbia's soverignity from their so called "friends of Serbia" - Solano, Rehn, Rupel, de Gucht et al!!!

One question Bganon Serbia in the EU does that mean Serbia with or without Kosovo & Metohija for you???

Princip, yes I would say that Thatcher was utterly divisive for British society and was responsible for the destruction of the British manufacturing industry. With hindsight some reforms were perhaps 'necessary', but only because other competitive economies are adopting the same model. I prefer a society not ruled by the profit motive. Am I to take it that you were a supporter of Thatcher and her free market, right wing policies? Oh and her position on Yugoslavia is just further evidence of her stupidity. But I suppose if you are consistent in your right wing thinking you were a fan of hers.

Perhaps you might want to tell me if you agree with collective (ir)responbility in the party system? Whether you think having a different opinion from the hierarchy is a good or bad thing? I'd be happy to hear of a member of DSS is unafraid to speak openly about the lurch to the right, because plenty are willing to talk about it in private. None are willing to speak up in meetings, with the exception of Jankovic, that you should know something about, seeing as he was UK Ambassador. He won't be foreign secretary now, despite the promise, but he stepped out of line, so he deserved it right?

Your last question is flawed of course. There is no choice, Kosovo is a part of Serbia according to 1244 and Serbian integration into the EU implies the whole of Serbia.

There isn't a chance that you will cut the childish comments out is there? Name calling is not necessary.

Thatcher was a god send to the UK, she crippled the Unionists who were threatening the stability and economy of the country at gun point, her reforms were the main reason the UK never suffered a recession along with the rest of Europe during her time and she completely turned around the country after Labour in the 70’s nearly bankrupt the country, a cycle repeating yet again.

Thatcher was one of those leaders who was needed at ‘that moment in time’.

As for the DS, internally it is very weak, it’s a group who are collected together through fear or through self interest. Ethnic groups who have been promised more, similar to the PSOE party in Spain with its promises to regions like Catalonia, it has given more power to and Labour with Scotland etc.. all of which have a taste of more and now want to push for total independence more so. So much for the EU dream that good economics bring stability.

Then the liberals, the willing DS partners, LDP, who like in the UK are a waste of space and will oppress every free thought a human being could muster to fit someone’s utopian dream of a country, even if it means sacrificing who you are, you don’t want a profit society? Then why vote for the DS? It is a one way trip to sell your countries soul.

By the way, now is a great time to join the EU if you are a DS supporter, with the EU looking to stamp its own brand and new cultural history to wipe clean those of the countries within it. Since that is the easiest way to move forward if you an apologist Serb, start fresh and pretend the past (mostly a lie imposed upon westerners and some Serbs regarding Serbia’s past) never happened with a pot of gold as your reward.

Bganon,
interesting to see you have a keen interest in UK politics over the last 20/30 years. You assuage wrongly over my poltical perspective through the example I used - I could have equally (and almost did) suggest "Thatcher and Blair" given the way they quelled dissent. So it is not a reflection of my personal political slant. comprehend parties and their politics more then you understand my political persuasion. On the contrary I was challenging your blinkered viewpoint that you quickly apply to anyone but Tadic/D yeS. Yet, what you suggested "the rank and file must obey" is just as reflective of them and I, I, "I decide" Tadic - but you choose to ignore that point!

More over by omitting Blair http://www.lewrockwell.com/pilger/pilger20.html in my comment it gave more insight to your opinions so I am glad I omitted Blair given the insight it provided.

Sure DSS has its failings just like any party anywhere but their principle remains Serbia with Kosovo & Methohija first and then lets get on with devlopment in the interest of all. What state are you developing if you don't clarify that first and foremost and more importantly question and ask for corrections from so-called "friends of Serbia" such as Solano time and again he and other EUcrats insult Serbia's sovereignty and time and again Tadic and D yes let them off - why???? The obvious question to put to Solano & Co. and ascertain once and for all what does he mean by Serbia - with or without Kosovo? Moreover now is the time to set this right not when Tadic ends his presidency and has allowed this to continue and set in process and stone - that seems to be his plan!! You may feel De gucht as Belguim FM is insignificant but you comprehend his message and I am certain you are intelligent enough to fully appreciate his sentiment is reflective of all that act aginst 1244 in illegal recognition. Moreover, Tadic's acceptance without question of this stance sets Serbia in the path opposite to what is spun !!!

All that comes out of DS and its coalition is complcit submissiveness to any and all demands placed on Serbia by the EUcrats who lets be honest seem far removed from the interets of ordinary folk in the EU let alone having the slightest concern for Serbian society at large - but you can continue to believe in your Imperial God-fathers who dicate for self interest alone and not that of "social inclusion" - its almost a paradox tht your creating for yourself!!

So your poltical leanings really fall flat with such a future goverenment since you will find that under that scenario (if it occurs - because lets face it thats politics) will throw just enough scraps to appease and give off the impression of 'social inclusion' but while the real work of development at the cost of greater inequality exacerbates. Comprehend Blair was just as good at following in Thatchers footsetps in terms of the divisiveness of a nation but was a great deal more polished (lets say) at obfuscating reality!!! On that Tadic seems no different (he has learnt well) in all he says or has shown through his lack of actions but continues the spin. That I would suggest if you really are true to "I prefer a society not ruled by the profit motive" will mean a tough learning lessen not just for you but for Serbians as a whole but then maybe you know you'll be better placed then most to help ones self!!!

Personally I have no poltial goalposts but have one over riding principle when I comment here and that remains Serbia with Kosovo & Metohija first and foremost hence my viewpoint is seen as close to that of DSS. Lets just put it that Eucrats play a mean fiddle with contracts. Your either complicit in total awareness of this contract for the future in say 3/4 years time when it will be shown fully or a total numpty to not comprehend the full implications of it. I'd of thought your intelligent enough to have worked out the details and that makes me question your sincerity of "I prefer a society not ruled by the profit motive".

I'd also add that is quite a naive statement (maybe even disingeneous given your acceptance of G17 partnership) but more importantly since profit is not the bad element persay but what becomes of it and how it is distributed is the deciding factor! Profit in itself is not the 'enemy' of an economy or state but who controls it, what is done with it and how few its distributed amongst!