"DSS legal analysis unsustainable"

This does npot explain why Belgiums Foreign Minister stated very publically and without any shame what so ever to the contrary;

“My understanding is that we’ve only signed the agreement with Serbia itself, without Kosovo,” said De Gucht.

Why also does EU foriegn Minuster Solano see fit to publixcally and unequivocally uphold Georgia's sovereignity but staus ominously silent regarding Serbia's????

D yeS to all that Europe demands need to clarify these clear and public attacks on Serbia's sovereignity from so called "friends of Serbia" who do nothing but undermine and attack its sovereign integrity!

Oh what a tangled web we weave..

Several points of this statement are deliberately inexact:


Pretending that the SAA "is a trade agreement that clearly states that Kosovo’s status is not determined." doesn't correspond to reality!

SAA is much more than a trade agreement and art 1 is very clear about this:

"The aims of this Association are:
a) to support the efforts of Serbia to strengthen democracy and the rule of law;
b) to contribute to political, economic and institutional stability in Serbia, as well as to the stabilisation of the region ;
c) to provide an appropriate framework for political dialogue, allowing the development of close political relations between the Parties;
d) to support the efforts of Serbia to develop its economic and international cooperation, including through the approximation of its legislation to that of the Community;
e) to support the efforts of Serbia to complete the transition into a functioning market economy;
f) to promote harmonious economic relations and gradually develop a free trade area between the Community and Serbia;
g) to foster regional cooperation in all the fields covered by this Agreement."

So, trade is only one of the elements, "democracie in Serbia" another one and "regional cooperation" and "good neighbourly relations" a third point!

Art 5 and 6 of the treaty insist on the latter.

The problem is precisely that for 20 of the contracting parties Kosovo is now an independent state and that those "good neighbourly relations" and "regional cooperation" issues apply for relations between Serbia and its southern province of Kosovo and Metohia!

One could object that art 135 states:
"The Agreement shall not apply in Kosovo which is at present under international administration pursuant to United Nations Security Council Resolution 1244 of 10 June 1999. This is without prejudice to the current status of Kosovo or the determination of its final status under the same Resolution."

This is to forget that the "current status", at the date of the signature, for those 20 nations who recognized the UDI was the one of an independent state!

It is as well to ignore the declaration of the Council of Europe, precisely the 2851st EXTERNAL RELATIONS Council meeting
Brussels, 18 February 2008, which states in it's conclusions after "taking note" of the UDI:

"The Council reiterates the EU's adherence to the principles of the UN Charter and the Helsinki Final
Act, inter alia the principles of sovereignty and territorial integrity and all UN Security Council resolutions. It underlines its conviction that in view of the conflict of the 1990s and the extended
period of international administration under SCR 1244, Kosovo constitutes a sui generis case which
does not call into question these principles and resolutions."

Which simply means that international law doesn't apply concerning Serbias sovereignty over Kosovo and Metohia.

I think that those problems of "interpretation" or intention are serious enough for to ask the EU to clarify their position before ratifying this agreement. Pretending something different is simply a blatant lie!

Frankly, this entire debate is a pointless exercise. And legal experts should know better than to fuel the gossip/propaganda.

The SAA only becomes a valid document AFTER all EU member states and Serbia have ratified it (different states have different mechanism of doing this). So, until such a time occurs, the SAA has NO legal status whatsoever.

As regards recognition of Kosovo, Vladimir Djeric is correct in saying that the document itself explicitly states that the status remains unresolved. However, in what context does the SAA exist in the real world? Ah yes! The EU is trying to jerrymander into Pristina a mission that is specifically mandated to build independent and fully sovereign Kosovo insitutions.

So, in plain English, the SAA can only state that Kosovo status is unresolved - because that is an undeniable fact at this point in time. But, significant steps are being undertaken to alter that and the SAA is one of the levers to prise Kosovo from Serbia's grasp.

“Under the same criteria, all international agreements could be called into question, even the UN Charter, as its signatories include countries that have recognized Kosovo.”
To say that Serbia, under the same criteria, should as well retract from the UN charter or the Helsinki Final Act is simply tendentious nonsense!
The fact is, that one as the other has been signed and ratified (contrary to the SAA agreement) by all contracting parties. The fact is as well, that a little more than 40 countries have breached those agreements by recognizing illegal UDI!
If a contract is not respected, you don’t retract from the contract but you sue the partie which doesn’t respect it!
DS wants to ask advice of the international court about the legality of UDI. The problem is, that even if this advice is in favor of Serbia, which it should be, it won’t be legally binding since there won’t be any parties involved in this trial!
DS argument against suing individual countries who breached the law is that if Serbia sues EU countries, those countries would block its entry into the EU.
This simply is accepting blackmail!
Serbia has been raped and suing the rapists, those would object to Serbia being part of their club!

Perhaps it’s time to ask some questions about EU! Questions which are debated in most major European countries as England, Italy, Germany, France…
In Serbia there’s convergence between all Serbian parties saying that EU is paradise and that Serbia has to be part of it. But which is Europe’s common political project today? Which common foreign policies? Which social Europe are we talking about? Where are European defense policies? Which independence from the US empire for to get out of a uni-polar, unilateral system where the EU is only a follower?
For those questions, among others, French and Dutch citizens have voted against the project of a European constitution. Today, this project is back again, with the Lisboan treaty, but this time, with a lot less advantages for the citizens, and, for sure, without any popular vote! That’s EU democracy!
Lots of people say that with Serbia being part of EU, salaries in Serbia will be higher. Right!
But have a look:
In Serbia, actually, 6.6% of citizens are living below the line of poverty. Far too much, I agree! But this number has been halved in less than three years!
In France 6.2% are living below the line of poverty and the number is steadily growing!
Salaries will be higher – Right!
But do you know that you hardly can’t find any apartment in Paris for less than 800 Euros a month? Let’s not speak about London!
Do you know that one packet of cigarettes cost 5.2 Euros in France, one glass of beer 4.5 Euros in Paris and one glass of fresh orange juice on the Champs Elysees 9 Euros?
I invite you to compare the prices for 1kg of tomatoes (without taste) or 1 kg of meat (not tender at all!) or even 1 liter of fresh milk on some online shops like Oohshop.fr or telemarket.fr. Certainly salaries would go up a little, one day, but for sure, prices will go up!
My point is not that I’m against EU. On the contrary, I’m a fervent supporter of the European project, but I have to state that, unfortunately, we’re far away from the original, generous project.
Today, the European project is stalled, largely due to the selfish actions of France and England!
The European project needs a deep re-definition, and re-discussion! In the meantime, I think that Serbia will be better off with “privileged relations”, as those that eventually will be proposed to Turkey instead of full membership: a good free-trade agreement and a visa-free regime.
There’s no use for Serbia to join “at any price” a club of rapists, especially if the price for this is giving away Kosovo and Metohija!

@tim
I don’t think that this could be called “a new law” since law equally applies to everybody, which here is not the case!

I believe that it’s rather the expression of US Empire’s one-sided decision. Europe has no unity and no common policy. They only follow the US!

As every Empire in human history this one will fall as well! It already tumbles and shakes!

The actual worth of the Dollar is only what it is because of the trust of the international community in its value. The day people realize that “the Emperor is naked” it will be worth only the paper it’s printed on!

As every Empire in human history this one will fall as well! It already tumbles and shakes!

“Under the same criteria, all international agreements could be called into question, even the UN Charter, as its signatories include countries
that have recognized Kosovo.”

To say that Serbia, under the same criteria, should as well retract from the UN charter or the Helsinki Final Act is simply tendentious nonsense!

The fact is, that one as the other has been signed and ratified (contrary to the SAA agreement) by all contracting parties. The fact is as well, that a little more than 40 countries have breached those agreements by recognizing illegal UDI!

If a contract is not respected, you don’t retract from the contract but you sue the parties which doesn’t respect it!

DS wants to ask advice of the international court about the legality of UDI. The problem is, that even if this advice is in favor of Serbia, which it should be, it won’t be legally binding since there won’t be any parties involved in this trial!

DS argument against suing individual countries who breached the law is that if Serbia sues EU countries, those countries would block its entry into the EU.

This simply is accepting blackmail!
Serbia has been raped and suing the rapists, those would object to Serbia being part of their club!

Perhaps it’s time to ask some questions about EU! Questions which are debated in most major European countries as England, Italy, Germany, France…

In Serbia there’s convergence between all Serbian parties saying that EU is paradise and that Serbia has to be part of it.
But which is Europe’s common political project today? Which common foreign policies? Which social Europe are we talking about? Where are European defense policies? Which independence from the US empire for to get out of a uni-polar, unilateral system where the EU is only a follower?

For those questions, among others, French and Dutch citizens have voted against the project of a European constitution. Today, this project is back again, with the Lisboan treaty, but this time, with a lot less advantages for the citizens, and, for sure, without any popular vote! That’s EU democracy!

Lots of people say that with Serbia being part of EU, salaries in Serbia will be higher. Right!

But have a look:
In Serbia, actually, 6.6% of citizens are living below the line of poverty. Far too much, I agree! But this number has been halved in less than three years!
In France 6.2% are living below the line of poverty and the number is steadily growing!

Salaries will be higher – Right!
But do you know that you hardly can’t find any apartment in Paris for less than 800 Euros a month? Let’s not speak about London!
Do you know that one packet of cigarettes cost 5.2 Euros in France, one glass of beer 4.5 Euros in Paris and one glass of fresh orange juice on the Champs Elysees 9 Euros?
I invite you to compare the prices for 1kg of tomatoes (without taste) or 1 kg of meat (not tender at all!) or even 1 liter of fresh milk on some online shops like Oohshop.fr or telemarket.fr.

Certainly salaries would go up a little, one day, but for sure, prices will go up!

My point is not that I’m against EU. On the contrary, I’m a fervent supporter of the European project, but I have to state that, unfortunately, we’re far away from the original, generous project.
Today, the European project is stalled, largely due to the selfish actions of France and England!
The European project needs a deep re-definition, and re-discussion!
In the meantime, I think that Serbia will be better off with “privileged relations”, as those that eventually will be proposed to Turkey instead of full membership: a good free-trade agreement and a visa-free regime.

There’s no use for Serbia to join “at any price” a club of rapists, especially if the price for this is giving away Kosovo and Metohija!

Try to read my post again adrian and I'm shure that you can find the answer to your question!

Joachim, to compare France to Serbia is like comparing a Citroen to a Yugo. So, what exactly is your point?

Joachim, is 9 yrs the new international standard developed by the EU to designate situtions "sui generis"? Is that when the law of the jungle is to be applied?
Are there any other situations where this new standard may be applied?

To Joachim.

"As every Empire in human history this one will fall as well! It already tumbles and shakes!"

And Serbian empire is long gone, few centuries ago, and you and others still don't want to admit it.

Don't worry about the knight whose feet are hanging from the high horse.

“Under the same criteria, all international agreements could be called into question, even the UN Charter, as its signatories include countries
that have recognized Kosovo.”

To say that Serbia, under the same criteria, should as well retract from the UN charter or the Helsinki Final Act is simply tendentious nonsense!

The fact is, that one as the other has been signed and ratified (contrary to the SAA agreement) by all contracting parties. The fact is as well, that a little more than 40 countries have breached those agreements by recognizing illegal UDI!

If a contract is not respected, you don’t retract from the contract but you sue the parties which doesn’t respect it!

DS wants to ask advice of the international court about the legality of UDI. The problem is, that even if this advice is in favor of Serbia, which it should be, it won’t be legally binding since there won’t be any parties involved in this trial!

DS argument against suing individual countries who breached the law is that if Serbia sues EU countries, those countries would block its entry into the EU.

This simply is accepting blackmail!
Serbia has been raped and suing the rapists, those would object to Serbia being part of their club!

Perhaps it’s time to ask some questions about EU! Questions which are debated in most major European countries as England, Italy, Germany, France…

In Serbia there’s convergence between all Serbian parties saying that EU is paradise and that Serbia has to be part of it.
But which is Europe’s common political project today? Which common foreign policies? Which social Europe are we talking about? Where are European defense policies? Which independence from the US empire for to get out of a uni-polar, unilateral system where the EU is only a follower?

For those questions, among others, French and Dutch citizens have voted against the project of a European constitution. Today, this project is back again, with the Lisboan treaty, but this time, with a lot less advantages for the citizens, and, for sure, without any popular vote! That’s EU democracy!

Lots of people say that with Serbia being part of EU, salaries in Serbia will be higher. Right!

But have a look:
In Serbia, actually, 6.6% of citizens are living below the line of poverty. Far too much, I agree! But this number has been halved in less than three years!
In France 6.2% are living below the line of poverty and the number is steadily growing!

Salaries will be higher – Right!
But do you know that you hardly can’t find any apartment in Paris for less than 800 Euros a month? Let’s not speak about London!
Do you know that one packet of cigarettes cost 5.2 Euros in France, one glass of beer 4.5 Euros in Paris and one glass of fresh orange juice on the Champs Elysees 9 Euros?
I invite you to compare the prices for 1kg of tomatoes (without taste) or 1 kg of meat (not tender at all!) or even 1 liter of fresh milk on some online shops like Oohshop.fr or telemarket.fr.

Certainly salaries would go up a little, one day, but for sure, prices will go up!

My point is not that I’m against EU. On the contrary, I’m a fervent supporter of the European project, but I have to state that, unfortunately, we’re far away from the original, generous project.
Today, the European project is stalled, largely due to the selfish actions of France and England!
The European project needs a deep re-definition, and re-discussion!
In the meantime, I think that Serbia will be better off with “privileged relations”, as those that eventually will be proposed to Turkey instead of full membership: a good free-trade agreement and a visa-free regime.

There’s no use for Serbia to join “at any price” a club of rapists, especially if the price for this is giving away Kosovo and Metohija!

“Under the same criteria, all international agreements could be called into question, even the UN Charter, as its signatories include countries that have recognized Kosovo.”
To say that Serbia, under the same criteria, should as well retract from the UN charter or the Helsinki Final Act is simply tendentious nonsense!
The fact is, that one as the other has been signed and ratified (contrary to the SAA agreement) by all contracting parties. The fact is as well, that a little more than 40 countries have breached those agreements by recognizing illegal UDI!
If a contract is not respected, you don’t retract from the contract but you sue the partie which doesn’t respect it!
DS wants to ask advice of the international court about the legality of UDI. The problem is, that even if this advice is in favor of Serbia, which it should be, it won’t be legally binding since there won’t be any parties involved in this trial!
DS argument against suing individual countries who breached the law is that if Serbia sues EU countries, those countries would block its entry into the EU.
This simply is accepting blackmail!
Serbia has been raped and suing the rapists, those would object to Serbia being part of their club!

Perhaps it’s time to ask some questions about EU! Questions which are debated in most major European countries as England, Italy, Germany, France…
In Serbia there’s convergence between all Serbian parties saying that EU is paradise and that Serbia has to be part of it. But which is Europe’s common political project today? Which common foreign policies? Which social Europe are we talking about? Where are European defense policies? Which independence from the US empire for to get out of a uni-polar, unilateral system where the EU is only a follower?
For those questions, among others, French and Dutch citizens have voted against the project of a European constitution. Today, this project is back again, with the Lisboan treaty, but this time, with a lot less advantages for the citizens, and, for sure, without any popular vote! That’s EU democracy!
Lots of people say that with Serbia being part of EU, salaries in Serbia will be higher. Right!
But have a look:
In Serbia, actually, 6.6% of citizens are living below the line of poverty. Far too much, I agree! But this number has been halved in less than three years!
In France 6.2% are living below the line of poverty and the number is steadily growing!
Salaries will be higher – Right!
But do you know that you hardly can’t find any apartment in Paris for less than 800 Euros a month? Let’s not speak about London!
Do you know that one packet of cigarettes cost 5.2 Euros in France, one glass of beer 4.5 Euros in Paris and one glass of fresh orange juice on the Champs Elysees 9 Euros?
I invite you to compare the prices for 1kg of tomatoes (without taste) or 1 kg of meat (not tender at all!) or even 1 liter of fresh milk on some online shops like Oohshop.fr or telemarket.fr. Certainly salaries would go up a little, one day, but for sure, prices will go up!
My point is not that I’m against EU. On the contrary, I’m a fervent supporter of the European project, but I have to state that, unfortunately, we’re far away from the original, generous project.
Today, the European project is stalled, largely due to the selfish actions of France and England!
The European project needs a deep re-definition, and re-discussion! In the meantime, I think that Serbia will be better off with “privileged relations”, as those that eventually will be proposed to Turkey instead of full membership: a good free-trade agreement and a visa-free regime.
There’s no use for Serbia to join “at any price” a club of rapists, especially if the price for this is giving away Kosovo and Metohija!

This does npot explain why Belgiums Foreign Minister stated very publically and without any shame what so ever to the contrary;

“My understanding is that we’ve only signed the agreement with Serbia itself, without Kosovo,” said De Gucht.

Why also does EU foriegn Minuster Solano see fit to publixcally and unequivocally uphold Georgia's sovereignity but staus ominously silent regarding Serbia's????

D yeS to all that Europe demands need to clarify these clear and public attacks on Serbia's sovereignity from so called "friends of Serbia" who do nothing but undermine and attack its sovereign integrity!

Oh what a tangled web we weave..

Frankly, this entire debate is a pointless exercise. And legal experts should know better than to fuel the gossip/propaganda.

The SAA only becomes a valid document AFTER all EU member states and Serbia have ratified it (different states have different mechanism of doing this). So, until such a time occurs, the SAA has NO legal status whatsoever.

As regards recognition of Kosovo, Vladimir Djeric is correct in saying that the document itself explicitly states that the status remains unresolved. However, in what context does the SAA exist in the real world? Ah yes! The EU is trying to jerrymander into Pristina a mission that is specifically mandated to build independent and fully sovereign Kosovo insitutions.

So, in plain English, the SAA can only state that Kosovo status is unresolved - because that is an undeniable fact at this point in time. But, significant steps are being undertaken to alter that and the SAA is one of the levers to prise Kosovo from Serbia's grasp.

Several points of this statement are deliberately inexact:


Pretending that the SAA "is a trade agreement that clearly states that Kosovo’s status is not determined." doesn't correspond to reality!

SAA is much more than a trade agreement and art 1 is very clear about this:

"The aims of this Association are:
a) to support the efforts of Serbia to strengthen democracy and the rule of law;
b) to contribute to political, economic and institutional stability in Serbia, as well as to the stabilisation of the region ;
c) to provide an appropriate framework for political dialogue, allowing the development of close political relations between the Parties;
d) to support the efforts of Serbia to develop its economic and international cooperation, including through the approximation of its legislation to that of the Community;
e) to support the efforts of Serbia to complete the transition into a functioning market economy;
f) to promote harmonious economic relations and gradually develop a free trade area between the Community and Serbia;
g) to foster regional cooperation in all the fields covered by this Agreement."

So, trade is only one of the elements, "democracie in Serbia" another one and "regional cooperation" and "good neighbourly relations" a third point!

Art 5 and 6 of the treaty insist on the latter.

The problem is precisely that for 20 of the contracting parties Kosovo is now an independent state and that those "good neighbourly relations" and "regional cooperation" issues apply for relations between Serbia and its southern province of Kosovo and Metohia!

One could object that art 135 states:
"The Agreement shall not apply in Kosovo which is at present under international administration pursuant to United Nations Security Council Resolution 1244 of 10 June 1999. This is without prejudice to the current status of Kosovo or the determination of its final status under the same Resolution."

This is to forget that the "current status", at the date of the signature, for those 20 nations who recognized the UDI was the one of an independent state!

It is as well to ignore the declaration of the Council of Europe, precisely the 2851st EXTERNAL RELATIONS Council meeting
Brussels, 18 February 2008, which states in it's conclusions after "taking note" of the UDI:

"The Council reiterates the EU's adherence to the principles of the UN Charter and the Helsinki Final
Act, inter alia the principles of sovereignty and territorial integrity and all UN Security Council resolutions. It underlines its conviction that in view of the conflict of the 1990s and the extended
period of international administration under SCR 1244, Kosovo constitutes a sui generis case which
does not call into question these principles and resolutions."

Which simply means that international law doesn't apply concerning Serbias sovereignty over Kosovo and Metohia.

I think that those problems of "interpretation" or intention are serious enough for to ask the EU to clarify their position before ratifying this agreement. Pretending something different is simply a blatant lie!

Joachim, to compare France to Serbia is like comparing a Citroen to a Yugo. So, what exactly is your point?

Try to read my post again adrian and I'm shure that you can find the answer to your question!

Joachim, is 9 yrs the new international standard developed by the EU to designate situtions "sui generis"? Is that when the law of the jungle is to be applied?
Are there any other situations where this new standard may be applied?

@tim
I don’t think that this could be called “a new law” since law equally applies to everybody, which here is not the case!

I believe that it’s rather the expression of US Empire’s one-sided decision. Europe has no unity and no common policy. They only follow the US!

As every Empire in human history this one will fall as well! It already tumbles and shakes!

The actual worth of the Dollar is only what it is because of the trust of the international community in its value. The day people realize that “the Emperor is naked” it will be worth only the paper it’s printed on!

As every Empire in human history this one will fall as well! It already tumbles and shakes!

To Joachim.

"As every Empire in human history this one will fall as well! It already tumbles and shakes!"

And Serbian empire is long gone, few centuries ago, and you and others still don't want to admit it.

Don't worry about the knight whose feet are hanging from the high horse.