Austrian FM: Vojvodina no Kosovo

in regard to Mrs. Plassnik:

she´s wrong, Vojvodina and Kosovo are the absolutely the same thing: serbian provinces.

there´s no discussion about that, and there is no austrian woman needed to talk about internal serbian affairs.

as for the ape-comment:

the last chapter will be closed, when Kosovo is re-integrated and the terrorist are gone to the US - while all loyal Albanians will then be capable of living freely without fear and crime in the southern serbian province.

only THEN it will be over, my dear friend...

you shouldn´t fool yourself, really.

I'm sure thats what you told the serbs about kosovo ten years ago when they agreed to U.N resolution 1244. How long till you decide a separate Vojvodina is in your best interests? What then? Will it also become a "special case"? Do you really think that after breaking international law and giving away 15% of their land they are going to trust you? And now you wave EU membership under their noses, like you're offering a dog a treat, only if they recognise kosovo. Does it surprise you that they refuse?

Frukyy,

"…If Serbian government is as good as they claim then why every minority want to secede…."

Is it always guilt of the government? Can't nationalism exist even if all rights of the minorities are respected? Why Corsicans and Basks want to be independent? Are they terrorized and exploited by the French and Spanish governments?

"… Serbian population is ready to abandon their myths. …"

I don't now what is your definition of the myth, but if it includes wish to protect territorial integrity of the country you are very wrong.

It’s time to end this non-sense and accept things as they are, we can’t bring back the past.

Well, I don't now can we, but some are certainly trying hard. Tell that to "Dardanians" and their masters who are bringing to Balkans thir vison of 1st century BC.

Frukky - I think the only myth here is that every minority wants to secede from Serbia. As far as I can see it is only the Albanians that are trying to secede.

Also WWII didn't start in the Balkans, unless you are counting Poland as part of it.

If Serbian government is as good as they claim then why every minority want to secede.
Of course the U.S.A. conspiracy will be a perfect excuse, however would it be possible, and I’m saying “possible” that they are doing something wrong and a complete overhaul of Serbian politics should be conducted.
Certainly no one can force those reforms as much as they want until Serbian population is ready to abandon their myths and create an example of progress as they did in the past.
Otherwise, everyone should remember that the previous two WW started in Balkans and as we know the local inhabitants suffered the most. It’s time to end this non-sense and accept things as they are, we can’t bring back the past.

Nope, wrong. Both Kosova and Vojvodina had autonomy as provinces. Unlike any other provinces both had the power to vote in state level such as to attack Croatia or not. The powers of these provinces was of a republic with the title of a province. If the people of Vojvodina are fed up with Serbia they have every right to declare independence.

Ursula Plassnik is right. The case of Vojvodina is really different from Kosovo, which was really the last chapter of the dissolution of Yugoslavia.

Because B92 does not like my post, I am going to copy and pasted part of a b92 comment from over a year ago.

"I believe its time for Vojvodina to start its spite from Serbia and finally closed the chapter on Yugoslavia.

To Japan/Koyoto the percentage is 65% Serb, 14% Hungarian, 21% other. And Vojvodina had the same Yugoslavian Presidential Voting Power as Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Montenegro, and Kosovo. The Serbs there are the majority and they enjoyed a higher standard of living before Serbia annexed them and Kosovo in 1989 and just to let you know that most of Serbia wealth comes from Vojvodina and little goes back into Vojvodina. So that known there going to be two Albania’s why not two Serbia’s."

Jovan wrote:
"as for the ape-comment:
the last chapter will be closed, when Kosovo is re-integrated and the terrorist are gone to the US - while all loyal Albanians will then be capable of living freely without fear and crime in the southern serbian province.
only THEN it will be over, my dear friend...
you shouldn´t fool yourself, really.
(Jovan, 28 May 2008 20:26)

Loyal Albanians!!!
You only make me laugh there my friend. After the recent war that Albanians had with Serbs there are NO Albanians loyal to Serbia. Therefore, that means that all of them are terrorists and should go to USA. That is precisely what Milosevic wanted, but see where that lead Serbia!!! Loss of Kosova and Bombardment of Serbia!

Special Case?? Mr. Plassnik please use your senses if the kosovo issue was about special case then kindly tell this to the kurds, palestinians,armenians, south sudanese and many more which have suffered.

If I know how America/Germany operate i'll look at trends. During the Wars in Krajina and Bosna, they said "No republic borders can shift"... 13 years and resolution 1244 later, they try and grant Kosovo independence as a special case (to avoid RS secession) and say "There will be no partition"... Fast forward let's say another 10 years, they'll try and stick it to the Serbs yet again saying "Let's partition Vojvodina... special case"

Looks like Germany hasn't changed and is trying to do to us what they did in WWII...

Srbija survived 500 years under the turks with our homeland ripped to shreds and given to loyal muslim converts. We will never give up, we will prevail again...

Bog cuva Srbe. Kosovo je Srbija.

Now that Kosova is free, it looks like Vojvodina will be next to be free from Beograd.

it was the greates fault of the NATO to bomb Vojvodina. that's the reason why the majority of the population there stays loyal to Serbia. at all, people and communities in Vojvodina have been working on good connections to Europe, better than Belgrade did. the population is multietnical for centuries and most of them are proud for it. from my point of view, they are the most European part of Serbia. the more one goes south, the more a healthy patriotism turns into etnical motivated nationalism - both Serbs and Albanians are the same in this case. the wars in the 90ies were the result - and it is a lie to say, that it was the West who wanted this wars.

I hope, Serbia will get out of this historical desaster and negotiate the most favorable conditions for to secure the rights of all citizens in an independent Kosovo and to secure the values of cultural heritage - which belongs to the whole world as well. on the other hand, the government of Kosovo should be controlled until a democratic state is working without complaints and which protects the rights of all citizens in a lawful and correct manner, unless etnical group they belong.

both states would be winners and they can count on support from all sides. by now, there is a loose-loose situation, which costs a whole generation all perspectives. Serbian people were fighting for their freedom in a great manner, they adore support, if they make a honourable cut with the past - and go ahead by themselves.

If the people of Vojvodina are fed up with Serbia they have every right to declare independence.
(KV, 28 May 2008 18:16)

Indeed, and so do the K-Serbs, Bosnian Serbs, Krajina Serbs. Or is it in your twisted logic, one rule for the Serbs and another for everyone else.

Lastly, as has been pointed out many times, Serbs are now in a majority in Vojvodina so despite the Koha Ditore fantasists, its going nowhere.

Dont worry as Jovan says, the Autonomous Province of Kosmet will return to Serbia and the region will be at peace.

Alex -- you said what the Germans did to the Serbs, what about what the Serbs did to the Germans in Vojvodina by ethnic cleansing them from the Banat and Backa region???

Ethnic Cleansing is wrong on all sides, it should not be allowed by any side !!!

Ms Ursula Plassnik should have the diplomatic status of persona non grata in Serbia. Until such time as Austria withdraws its illegal recognition of the would-be KLA terror state, both her person and her twisted ideas have no place in any kind of dialog.

As for her guarantees that Vojvodina is safely Serbian, only a fool could believe in the word of the foreign minister of a country that is already flagrantly violating the Helsinki Final Act, the UN Charter, and various bilateral agreements with Serbia.

Austria's ruling revanchist clique is among the greatest of all historical enemies of the Serbian people. Ignore Ursula and her promises, and lock your doors tightly to protect your valuables if she visits.

Sincerely,

John Bosnitch
Washington, DC
john.b@imcnews.com

Indeed, a silly comment. Texas is not Oregon and Chukotka is not Buryatia.

For the rest, esp. Albanain comments, please let me explain the situation in better detail. Albanians probably noticed, I tend to explode as soon as I hear somewhat like "Vojvodina is the next". The reason for it is mainly because I see, such comments are intent to poke Serbs in the nose and have nothing to do with the reality. Like I would say my "favorite" Quetzalcoatl/Pigeon/Snake thing.

This is pretty silly for an other reason, too. While there are open issues (thankfully improving), Hungarians who would share what Albanians say are 100% nuts and are dangerous for Albanians as well: they want Kosovo being painted red-white-green. Just google on László Toroczkai and get the idea what kind of people I am talking about.

The only reason why there is 65% Serbs in Vojvodina is because the vast majority of the refugee's were put there by Milosevic and don't forget the ethnic cleansing of the Germans from Vojvodina after WW2.

Maybe Germany should be split in two countries.Then the rest of the Europe can live piecefully.
In Vojvodina there are 80% of the Serbs.I don't see why they would want to be independent.I guess Germans are still afraid of the Slavs getting united.That day will come!

was the greates fault of the NATO to bomb Vojvodina. that's the reason why the majority of the population there stays loyal to Serbia. at all, people and communities in Vojvodina have been working on good connections to Europe, better than Belgrade did
(rolerkoster, 29 May 2008 08:05)

Serbs in Vojvodina make almost 70% of the population there so Vojvodina is not going anywhere outside Serbia!Dream on!

They shoul've never united East and West Germany.

United Germany is a threat to Europe and that's why they had to be split up. Now we have the Nazis from East stirring up old feelings of hate towards the Serbs.

From the moment the wall went down, decency in West Germany started to decline.
Now we have to deal with the consequences of that action.

Freedom.

"… refugee's were put there by Milosevic …"

you are wrong, not by him. Refugees, victims of the ethnic cleansing, are put there by Croatian, Bosnian Muslim and Croat and Albanian extremists. There are about one million Serb refugees. They were accepted in Serbia but state was not in position to help them further very much. They had to scrap the living by their own efforts some how. Times were hard in whole of Serbia. War was going on, sanctions, economy collapsed, no work… In Vojvodina, being agricultural region, was at least relatively easy to get the food and find some low paid, manual, temporary work in the fields. That is the main reason that more refugees went there then to other regions. By the way, any citizen of Serbia is free to settle where he pleases. Milosevic, or any one else didn't "put" no one any where. Refugees are also citizens.

"…Ursula Plassnik … persona non grata in Serbia. withdraws … recognition …guarantees … only a fool could believe …Austria's ruling revanchist clique is among the greatest of all historical enemies of the Serbian people. …"

John, excellent post, I agree 100%.

The Serbs are to breathe a collective sigh of relief and sing the praises of this EU fool? Tomorrow it will be another Special case where the "Voivodiniaks" must get their own state.

Vojvodina is well on its way to being Independent, it will not happen over-night but it will happen OVER-TIME, and every ethnic background will have the opportunity to prosper in this new state!

Peggy, can you leave Germany alone -- we're on the topic of Vojvodina's Freedom and not something else.

Serbs in Vojvodina make almost 70% of the population there so Vojvodina is not going anywhere outside Serbia! Dream on!
(Peter, 29 May 2008 13:15)

as Peter speaks to me, I would like to answer:

I agree with you. but you did not read the article, on which I refer in my posting above.

Kosovo is not Vojvodina - and if the majority of citizens of Vojvodina líkes to be part of Serbia - it's their choice, but neither yours (if you don't live there) and neither mine. as you insist on the factor majority, Peter: the majority of citizens in Kosovo is in favor of the UDI declaration. for what are you now? I can imagine your answer, so I say: it's obsolete to discuss a status, which does not exist anymore. by the way: I like Vojvodina, because it is not split anymore about the question, which future they want. Lala je clever!

If Serbian government is as good as they claim then why every minority want to secede.
Of course the U.S.A. conspiracy will be a perfect excuse, however would it be possible, and I’m saying “possible” that they are doing something wrong and a complete overhaul of Serbian politics should be conducted.
Certainly no one can force those reforms as much as they want until Serbian population is ready to abandon their myths and create an example of progress as they did in the past.
Otherwise, everyone should remember that the previous two WW started in Balkans and as we know the local inhabitants suffered the most. It’s time to end this non-sense and accept things as they are, we can’t bring back the past.

Ursula Plassnik is right. The case of Vojvodina is really different from Kosovo, which was really the last chapter of the dissolution of Yugoslavia.

Nope, wrong. Both Kosova and Vojvodina had autonomy as provinces. Unlike any other provinces both had the power to vote in state level such as to attack Croatia or not. The powers of these provinces was of a republic with the title of a province. If the people of Vojvodina are fed up with Serbia they have every right to declare independence.

Ms Ursula Plassnik should have the diplomatic status of persona non grata in Serbia. Until such time as Austria withdraws its illegal recognition of the would-be KLA terror state, both her person and her twisted ideas have no place in any kind of dialog.

As for her guarantees that Vojvodina is safely Serbian, only a fool could believe in the word of the foreign minister of a country that is already flagrantly violating the Helsinki Final Act, the UN Charter, and various bilateral agreements with Serbia.

Austria's ruling revanchist clique is among the greatest of all historical enemies of the Serbian people. Ignore Ursula and her promises, and lock your doors tightly to protect your valuables if she visits.

Sincerely,

John Bosnitch
Washington, DC
john.b@imcnews.com

Jovan wrote:
"as for the ape-comment:
the last chapter will be closed, when Kosovo is re-integrated and the terrorist are gone to the US - while all loyal Albanians will then be capable of living freely without fear and crime in the southern serbian province.
only THEN it will be over, my dear friend...
you shouldn´t fool yourself, really.
(Jovan, 28 May 2008 20:26)

Loyal Albanians!!!
You only make me laugh there my friend. After the recent war that Albanians had with Serbs there are NO Albanians loyal to Serbia. Therefore, that means that all of them are terrorists and should go to USA. That is precisely what Milosevic wanted, but see where that lead Serbia!!! Loss of Kosova and Bombardment of Serbia!

Now that Kosova is free, it looks like Vojvodina will be next to be free from Beograd.

Because B92 does not like my post, I am going to copy and pasted part of a b92 comment from over a year ago.

"I believe its time for Vojvodina to start its spite from Serbia and finally closed the chapter on Yugoslavia.

To Japan/Koyoto the percentage is 65% Serb, 14% Hungarian, 21% other. And Vojvodina had the same Yugoslavian Presidential Voting Power as Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Montenegro, and Kosovo. The Serbs there are the majority and they enjoyed a higher standard of living before Serbia annexed them and Kosovo in 1989 and just to let you know that most of Serbia wealth comes from Vojvodina and little goes back into Vojvodina. So that known there going to be two Albania’s why not two Serbia’s."

in regard to Mrs. Plassnik:

she´s wrong, Vojvodina and Kosovo are the absolutely the same thing: serbian provinces.

there´s no discussion about that, and there is no austrian woman needed to talk about internal serbian affairs.

as for the ape-comment:

the last chapter will be closed, when Kosovo is re-integrated and the terrorist are gone to the US - while all loyal Albanians will then be capable of living freely without fear and crime in the southern serbian province.

only THEN it will be over, my dear friend...

you shouldn´t fool yourself, really.

it was the greates fault of the NATO to bomb Vojvodina. that's the reason why the majority of the population there stays loyal to Serbia. at all, people and communities in Vojvodina have been working on good connections to Europe, better than Belgrade did. the population is multietnical for centuries and most of them are proud for it. from my point of view, they are the most European part of Serbia. the more one goes south, the more a healthy patriotism turns into etnical motivated nationalism - both Serbs and Albanians are the same in this case. the wars in the 90ies were the result - and it is a lie to say, that it was the West who wanted this wars.

I hope, Serbia will get out of this historical desaster and negotiate the most favorable conditions for to secure the rights of all citizens in an independent Kosovo and to secure the values of cultural heritage - which belongs to the whole world as well. on the other hand, the government of Kosovo should be controlled until a democratic state is working without complaints and which protects the rights of all citizens in a lawful and correct manner, unless etnical group they belong.

both states would be winners and they can count on support from all sides. by now, there is a loose-loose situation, which costs a whole generation all perspectives. Serbian people were fighting for their freedom in a great manner, they adore support, if they make a honourable cut with the past - and go ahead by themselves.

Serbs in Vojvodina make almost 70% of the population there so Vojvodina is not going anywhere outside Serbia! Dream on!
(Peter, 29 May 2008 13:15)

as Peter speaks to me, I would like to answer:

I agree with you. but you did not read the article, on which I refer in my posting above.

Kosovo is not Vojvodina - and if the majority of citizens of Vojvodina líkes to be part of Serbia - it's their choice, but neither yours (if you don't live there) and neither mine. as you insist on the factor majority, Peter: the majority of citizens in Kosovo is in favor of the UDI declaration. for what are you now? I can imagine your answer, so I say: it's obsolete to discuss a status, which does not exist anymore. by the way: I like Vojvodina, because it is not split anymore about the question, which future they want. Lala je clever!

Freedom.

"… refugee's were put there by Milosevic …"

you are wrong, not by him. Refugees, victims of the ethnic cleansing, are put there by Croatian, Bosnian Muslim and Croat and Albanian extremists. There are about one million Serb refugees. They were accepted in Serbia but state was not in position to help them further very much. They had to scrap the living by their own efforts some how. Times were hard in whole of Serbia. War was going on, sanctions, economy collapsed, no work… In Vojvodina, being agricultural region, was at least relatively easy to get the food and find some low paid, manual, temporary work in the fields. That is the main reason that more refugees went there then to other regions. By the way, any citizen of Serbia is free to settle where he pleases. Milosevic, or any one else didn't "put" no one any where. Refugees are also citizens.

"…Ursula Plassnik … persona non grata in Serbia. withdraws … recognition …guarantees … only a fool could believe …Austria's ruling revanchist clique is among the greatest of all historical enemies of the Serbian people. …"

John, excellent post, I agree 100%.

Maybe Germany should be split in two countries.Then the rest of the Europe can live piecefully.
In Vojvodina there are 80% of the Serbs.I don't see why they would want to be independent.I guess Germans are still afraid of the Slavs getting united.That day will come!

I'm sure thats what you told the serbs about kosovo ten years ago when they agreed to U.N resolution 1244. How long till you decide a separate Vojvodina is in your best interests? What then? Will it also become a "special case"? Do you really think that after breaking international law and giving away 15% of their land they are going to trust you? And now you wave EU membership under their noses, like you're offering a dog a treat, only if they recognise kosovo. Does it surprise you that they refuse?

Frukky - I think the only myth here is that every minority wants to secede from Serbia. As far as I can see it is only the Albanians that are trying to secede.

Also WWII didn't start in the Balkans, unless you are counting Poland as part of it.

Frukyy,

"…If Serbian government is as good as they claim then why every minority want to secede…."

Is it always guilt of the government? Can't nationalism exist even if all rights of the minorities are respected? Why Corsicans and Basks want to be independent? Are they terrorized and exploited by the French and Spanish governments?

"… Serbian population is ready to abandon their myths. …"

I don't now what is your definition of the myth, but if it includes wish to protect territorial integrity of the country you are very wrong.

It’s time to end this non-sense and accept things as they are, we can’t bring back the past.

Well, I don't now can we, but some are certainly trying hard. Tell that to "Dardanians" and their masters who are bringing to Balkans thir vison of 1st century BC.

Special Case?? Mr. Plassnik please use your senses if the kosovo issue was about special case then kindly tell this to the kurds, palestinians,armenians, south sudanese and many more which have suffered.

If the people of Vojvodina are fed up with Serbia they have every right to declare independence.
(KV, 28 May 2008 18:16)

Indeed, and so do the K-Serbs, Bosnian Serbs, Krajina Serbs. Or is it in your twisted logic, one rule for the Serbs and another for everyone else.

Lastly, as has been pointed out many times, Serbs are now in a majority in Vojvodina so despite the Koha Ditore fantasists, its going nowhere.

Dont worry as Jovan says, the Autonomous Province of Kosmet will return to Serbia and the region will be at peace.

Indeed, a silly comment. Texas is not Oregon and Chukotka is not Buryatia.

For the rest, esp. Albanain comments, please let me explain the situation in better detail. Albanians probably noticed, I tend to explode as soon as I hear somewhat like "Vojvodina is the next". The reason for it is mainly because I see, such comments are intent to poke Serbs in the nose and have nothing to do with the reality. Like I would say my "favorite" Quetzalcoatl/Pigeon/Snake thing.

This is pretty silly for an other reason, too. While there are open issues (thankfully improving), Hungarians who would share what Albanians say are 100% nuts and are dangerous for Albanians as well: they want Kosovo being painted red-white-green. Just google on László Toroczkai and get the idea what kind of people I am talking about.

was the greates fault of the NATO to bomb Vojvodina. that's the reason why the majority of the population there stays loyal to Serbia. at all, people and communities in Vojvodina have been working on good connections to Europe, better than Belgrade did
(rolerkoster, 29 May 2008 08:05)

Serbs in Vojvodina make almost 70% of the population there so Vojvodina is not going anywhere outside Serbia!Dream on!

The only reason why there is 65% Serbs in Vojvodina is because the vast majority of the refugee's were put there by Milosevic and don't forget the ethnic cleansing of the Germans from Vojvodina after WW2.

If I know how America/Germany operate i'll look at trends. During the Wars in Krajina and Bosna, they said "No republic borders can shift"... 13 years and resolution 1244 later, they try and grant Kosovo independence as a special case (to avoid RS secession) and say "There will be no partition"... Fast forward let's say another 10 years, they'll try and stick it to the Serbs yet again saying "Let's partition Vojvodina... special case"

Looks like Germany hasn't changed and is trying to do to us what they did in WWII...

Srbija survived 500 years under the turks with our homeland ripped to shreds and given to loyal muslim converts. We will never give up, we will prevail again...

Bog cuva Srbe. Kosovo je Srbija.

Alex -- you said what the Germans did to the Serbs, what about what the Serbs did to the Germans in Vojvodina by ethnic cleansing them from the Banat and Backa region???

Ethnic Cleansing is wrong on all sides, it should not be allowed by any side !!!

They shoul've never united East and West Germany.

United Germany is a threat to Europe and that's why they had to be split up. Now we have the Nazis from East stirring up old feelings of hate towards the Serbs.

From the moment the wall went down, decency in West Germany started to decline.
Now we have to deal with the consequences of that action.

The Serbs are to breathe a collective sigh of relief and sing the praises of this EU fool? Tomorrow it will be another Special case where the "Voivodiniaks" must get their own state.

Vojvodina is well on its way to being Independent, it will not happen over-night but it will happen OVER-TIME, and every ethnic background will have the opportunity to prosper in this new state!

Peggy, can you leave Germany alone -- we're on the topic of Vojvodina's Freedom and not something else.