DS leader Boris Tadić has called on all parties to respect the will of the people, as at the elections they convincingly voted in favor of resuming EU integration.
Matthew you are probably too kind. I like to think I have the balance right and occasionally get a bit angry at what I see as lack of thought. It might grate on people a little, but hey if you keep your mouth shut, only the loudest will get heard. And in my experience the loudest quite often have least to say.
I'd be happy to take a coffee with you, you can catch me at lycos (not writing the full mail for fear of spamming but you can guess it).
Sounds like a heavy workload. I feel fortunate not to have had to work hours like that in my life, in fact I feel lazy now. But yes, I hope you can gather some finance together and open that cafe. You will probably feel like you are in seventh heaven after the rat race.
“You are falling into the trap (that Tadic is also victim to) of assuming what the will of the people is. In the end it is for SPS to decide. (bganon, 18 May 2008 01:19)”
bganon,
I agree with your points.
However, since we’re guessing what the “will of the people” is, I think the argument is stronger that it is for delaying the SAA, considering DSS, SRS and SPS all made statements before the election that they are against it at this time and that’s who got the majority of the vote. I’m a little offended by all the calls in the Western media to “support” the will of the people as if it were clear the Serbian people wanted to move closer to the EU regardless of the cost.
My arguement does seem to be consistent with the polls to me.
You may certainly be correct about Markovic.
However, I believe the most important thing Serbia can do is to stop calling each other traitors and work together to form a united front to support Kosovo.
Hopefully any SRS coalition won’t be so stupid as to push away the EU and burn bridges. Applying some pressure for a few more carrots in an intelligent fashion is a smart thing to do I think.
Clearly Serbia (and Russia too) belong in the EU. Such an EU would be the most powerful single country in the world. If the Balkans join the EU, that means I get EU citizenship too (through my wife), something I’d like to have as well. I’m not fond of the US culture in many ways. We work way too many hours, and we’re too uptight about drinking and minor nudity, etc. I work like 70 hours a week, and I have no time to spend with my family. I’m only doing that until I can open some kind of cafe (maybe in Novi Sad) where artists, musicians and poets can hang out and discuss things rationally. I’m an artist and song writer and my wife is an awarding winning poet.
I would very much like to have a kafa with you sometime in Belgrade and have an intelligent discussion. I respect your points and your intelligence greatly. You seem like a very interesting person.
Your figures for the number of Serbians voting for pro-EU parties are wrong. Since every Serbian party is pro-EU, then all who voted cast their vote for the EU.
The issue is not whether Serbs are pro-EU; it is rather whether the EU is anti-Serb.
The EU should state its position clearly and unambiguously. Is the EU prepared to accept Serbia as a single sovereign nation or not?
It is the EU which will decide on Serbian membership. For this to happen however the pro-Serbians in the EU will need to assert themselves.
Ali Ahmeti threatened renewed violence in Macedonia when his party was excluded from the governing coalition in the most recent elections...
Boris Tadic seems to be aping this 'I'm in power whatever any one else wants to think' mentality.
Certainly a 'master of spin', how much of this is tailored to his party faithful and his ever helpful EU 'friends'?
A coalition majority is a coalition majority. Full stop.
I suspect that EC bureacrats have already been in contact with the SPS, most likely by a 'friendly' third party to offer and threaten to get the coalition that the EU wants. Such manipulation is nothing new unfortunately.
So what can the EU offer the SPS that won't split its party? What is the threat? That is less difficult. One can expect an unofficial EU 'go slow/wait and see' policy if there is a DS/NS+SRS+SPS coalition. In effect, sanctions.
Of course, this will impact the economy and the rest of the Balkans, but the EU has always shown a willing preparedness to punish the Serbs regardless of the effects on their neighbors.
Or maybe a game of chicken, provoking such a coalition to do something that the EU can jump on, using the usual compliant anti-serb media and then imposing some form of sanctions.
Even if the SPS joins the Tadic coalition, is Tadic going to run Serbia for all of the Serbs, or the ~51% that voted for him. It is hardly a clear mandate, especially at a very sensitive time in Serbias international orientation. Not to mention holding such a coalition together for any reasonable amount of time....
Unfortuately, we cannot expect the foreigners to keep their meddling hands to themselves. It is the Balkans after all.
One a side note, Bulgaria may well have substantial assistance funds removed by the EC due to its dire corruption (why are they in the EU again?). I truely wonder how this will effect Bulgaria politically in acquiesence with EU policy, let alone relations with the US. It could be very interesting indeed....
Christos Manolas and all others, it seems to me that all commentators here fail to take any notice of the fact that Serbia has not got a single ANTI-EU party. There is no party in Serbia which is not for EUROPEAN INTEGRATIONS, the difference is in whether they should go ahead at any cost or not.
As a EU-sceptic myself, I think there should be a party in Serbia with a clear ANTI-EU stance as, unfortunately, neither of the parties in Serbia, including those led by Messrs Kostunica, Nikolic and Dacic advocates such programme.
Matthew you are right about Dacic's past statements but what a politician says in one moment, as you must know, isn't necessarily his position another time.
Not only have moderated statements appeared, since he made the ones you quoted, from other SPS officials but imagine the following: 'After consulting my coalition partners we have decided to support X coaltion'.
That is the statement we will eventually get from Dacic and if it is DS and he is pressed on the issue, he can imply that it was Markovic and PUPS and he agreed to hold a common position with his coalition partners as was the deal.
Bigger climbdowns have been seen. For example radicals are notorious promising to resign if they don't win this or that election, but they never do.
In 2000 Kostunica himself on state television said he would not remain in power for longer than one term and that proved not to be true either.
You are falling into the trap (that Tadic is also victim to) of assuming what the will of the people is. In the end it is for SPS to decide. That is the point people are making. In the end what SPS decide will be the mandate, although the rest of us may argue about it later.
I'm not sure that any government has ever been formed around rejecting an agreement before. I think that the government should be formed around the concept say of improving living standards, social justice and territorial integrity.
You should also remember that even if SRS/DSS coalition does take power that the SAA may still be passed. It will only take the votes of PUPS, in addition to Markovic who has suggest he will vote for it, to pass the SAA.
You are quite right, apologies for that, without thinking I calculated roughly 40% of Serbia's whole population and not just the voting one!
Regarding Poland, I know we joined when they did, but that was not the point, I just meant that Poland is growing and life is getting better here, and I think that Serbia can truly benefit from joining the EU as well, as it is not linked with Kosovo (in the sense that the EU as a whole does not have a pro-independence stance towards Kosovo due to some members, but the EU does have a positive stance towards Serbia joining the EU).
Serbia can enjoy the benefits of the EU whilst continuing to push for some proper settlement of Kosovo issue.
Peter Sudyka, 4,099,372 in total voted in the recent Serbian parliamentary election. 3.2 million voting for the pro EU party seems to be a totally made up figure to me. Only 1.6 million voted for Tadic's "For a European Serbia" coalition.
Poland may have overtaken countries such as Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia and Hungary in terms of GDP per capita PPP recently. But that cannot be due to Poland being a member of the EU as those countries mentioned joined at the same time as Poland.
There are some strange arguments here. T say that Tadic has lost the elections is ofcourse far from the truth. He has won the elections, but that doesn't mean that he can form an goverment.Ofcourse the DS can't form an goverment on its own but that's also true for all the other parties.
Kostunica can't form a goverment on its own, it's up to the DS in the first place to try and form an goverment. If the DS can't have the suport of at least the SPS then it's clear that a new goverment will have to be formed with the SRS, SPS and DSS. But if Kostunica is indeed more concerned about the will of the people instead of hanging on to power, he should at least acknowledge that his party has lost and that the people don't want him as premier anymore.
The previous goverment was disolved because there was two seperate views on how to react to Kosovo's (iligal) independence. Kostunica disolved the goverment, because he didn't agree with Tadic's aproach, and he let the people decide on how to continue. It's really simple in my view since it's clear to me that the people didn't suport Kostunica's view otherwise he wouldn't have lost even more seats compared to the previous election. Otherwise he would have lots more votes and wouldn't have lost, and the European block wouldn't have had the amount of votes it has received now no matter how many parties Tadic would have formed a pre-election block with.
Dear all,
Serbia is the hart of Balkans and nobody should ignore this.Hence,Europe needs Serbia.We all in the region seed Serbia to join the EU,at least and later on NATO.President Tadic is right.There is only one way.The world has changed and those who remain alone will not be able to survive.We all undeerstand how Serbs feel but this time it has to do with your existence as a state and as a nation.People are clever and understand.The will of the nation has been clearly stated.Do not hesitate.Join us ,join the rest of the region.
We need a democratic Serbia.Do not backpaddle.Support your president,think of your future and the future of your children.Once more thinks have changed in the region and it is obvious that President Tadic has got it and tries to lead Serbia where it should have already been.It is time in the Balkans for all people to think with their mind rather than with their heart.For the good of Serbia ,for the good of all in the region.
Ja samo se nadam da cete svi dobro razumeti sta kaem i cete podrziti Borisa Tadic.
Prijatno
Petrovaradin, I’ll go ahead and give rational argument a try.
I believe you are incorrect if you think SPS supported the SAA in their campaign platform. The following quote is from BEFORE the election.
“[Babovic] Both the DSS and the Radicals say that they will annul the SAA [Stability and Association Agreement] when they come to power. Why are you silent on this?
[Dacic] Because we were against even initialing it. We are not against entering the EU, but we believe that we should first determine what the Brussels attitude towards Serbia is, and whether they also plan to offer such an agreement to Kosovo soon.”
Tadic is also misleading the public in his statements
“The Democratic Party of Serbia (DSS) did not warn its voters at the election campaign that their policies post-May 12 would be the manifesto of [Serb Radical Party leader] Vojislav Šešelj,”
It was 100% clear that DSS would form a coalition with SRS and not DS this time around, they most certainly made it very clear they would be seeking a coalition with SRS.
Dacic was clear on where he stood before the election.
“We will coordinate all our future moves with the DSS... However, the election math clearly indicates that there will be no new parliamentary majority in Serbia without an agreement between the DSS-NS and our coalition. This is not wishful thinking but a political reality… It is true that they [SRS] are not too enthusiastic to see us in that government. That is why they keep saying that they want to make a majority only with the DSS, because they are sure that together with "the populists" they will have enough seats for a majority. But that is not realistic. They can do what they like, but they have to be aware that after Sunday [ 11 May election day] they will have to talk to us. And our attitude towards them will depend on their attitude towards us.”
So to summarize:
SRS = No SAA
DSS = No SAA
SPS = No SAA
SRS + DSS + SPS = Clear Majority of the Will of the People and a MANDATE for a new direction.
The polls have consistently shown the Serbian people do not want to join the EU without Kosovo and obviously they choose to send a message with their vote.
Petrovaradin, if you have a quote from Dacic showing support for the SAA, please feel free to post it. I’d love to hear from a long time SPS member on what they believed they were voting for.
All the parties pretty much have said Kosovo + EU, the election was about how to proceed. The election was about the SAA and whether the Serbian government had a mandate to ratify it. Clearly they do not.
I ask Tadic this: “Who is misleading whom?”
If only Tadic would accept the Will of the People, apologize to Kostunica, and form a DS-DSS government formed around annulling the SAA as they people have asked for.
Nooop Mr. Tadic,
Serbs and EU might be your desire, but your people are hell-bent on oncemore slaughtering Albanian´s and Bosniaks. Therefore they choose a Seselj-Substitution, not the EU!
As early as 12th May, BBC's Mark Mardell called Tadic "a master of spin", of course with quite a bit of irony, just as Tadic celebrated a victory that never was. Since then, it has been really difficult to grasp what has been going in that man's head. Is it all due to a lack of (political) intellgence, is he in denial, are he and his spin doctor Srdjan Saper on some mind altering substances, is it maybe that he absolutely has to live up to somebody's expectations or is he simply a liar? I hope that everything will be clearer in a few days!
Mr kostunica with others they have been involved on deep affair against serbia and serbs. They are to much involved in lies,crime,robbering that they must do anything to protect theirselfgo in right way. If serbia will join europe than they will be discovered. The lies will come to the light. Srbian people will find out that they were leaded by criminals, robbers, war profiters etc. I think Kostunica will be happy if serbia and balkans will be involved in another war.
The game Tadic plays may become very dangerous for the Serbs. Claiming that he has won, he may be preparing (with Solana, of course)some coup. He may soon swith to talk of the legitimacy of his 'victory' and invite Nato to intervene to 'restore Democracy'.
Far fetched? Not really, just observe Lebanon, this has become a classic tactics of our 'Big Brother'.
Serbs should be on guard.
I think Tadic is right. There are 1 500 000 Serbs living in the EU, as well as about 3 200 000 Serbs who voted for the pro-EU party (most obviously younger and more qualified Serbs in both cases, the future and brains behind Serbia, who know what good the EU can do for Serbia), showing that Serbia leans to being a more pro-Western and pro-EU state rather than a Nationalist state as some Serbs here have suggested.
I think that this massive number of Serbs shows where Serbia would like to be, democratically speaking, and it would be a huge shame for the DSS-SRS coalition to ignore this if the EU does not change their stance to Kosovo, which they will never win back. I never though I would end up praising the EU, but for the first time this year I have seen the positive effects of the EU on Poland (we have even overtaken Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia and Hungary in terms of GDP per capita PPP recently), and I think that this is something most Serbs would like too, as I cannot see Serbia's economy prosper on European levels without the EU's backing.
Tadic repeats this lie over and over again but this doesn't make it more true!
The ones who won the elections are the ones who have a majority and it's not the Canak, Dinkic, Tadic coalition.
I don't recall Tadic using the same argument of "the will of the voters" in 2003 or 2007 when SRS was the largest single party in Serbia!
You better admit it now Mr Tadic: you have LOST the elections!
Its hard to argue with Tadic on this, although I fully expect some of you to try. Two groupings in these elections basically argued "Kosovo OR the EU." They lost 250,000 votes from the last election. Another grouping, LDP, basically argued "EU NOT Kosovo" and received the same votes as the 2007 elections. And two other groupings, ZES and SPS-PUPS-JS, argued "Kosovo AND the EU" and gained 300,000 votes from the last election. This is why you should ignore all this marketing about an SRS-DSS-SPS coalition. You heard it here first.
No doubt that your coalition received more votes than others individually but collectively, your coalition clearly did not get the majority needed to form a government. The meer fact that your party is seeking support from other parties is proof of that.
Collectively, the voters did not chose your coalition to lead the country.
Kostunica ignores the message of people which sent him nearly into political desert - but anyway, nothing lasted for long under his leadership, but he is really a world champion in bringing his back always on the best chair. majority of Serbia is gathering there, where Kostunica is sitting at.
have an ever greater desire to hang on to power, and are the exact same people who wish to manipulate the national will and usurp power,” said the DS leader.
No doubt that your coalition received more votes than others individually but collectively, your coalition clearly did not get the majority needed to form a government. The meer fact that your party is seeking support from other parties is proof of that.
Collectively, the voters did not chose your coalition to lead the country.
Tadic repeats this lie over and over again but this doesn't make it more true!
The ones who won the elections are the ones who have a majority and it's not the Canak, Dinkic, Tadic coalition.
I don't recall Tadic using the same argument of "the will of the voters" in 2003 or 2007 when SRS was the largest single party in Serbia!
You better admit it now Mr Tadic: you have LOST the elections!
Petrovaradin, I’ll go ahead and give rational argument a try.
I believe you are incorrect if you think SPS supported the SAA in their campaign platform. The following quote is from BEFORE the election.
“[Babovic] Both the DSS and the Radicals say that they will annul the SAA [Stability and Association Agreement] when they come to power. Why are you silent on this?
[Dacic] Because we were against even initialing it. We are not against entering the EU, but we believe that we should first determine what the Brussels attitude towards Serbia is, and whether they also plan to offer such an agreement to Kosovo soon.”
Tadic is also misleading the public in his statements
“The Democratic Party of Serbia (DSS) did not warn its voters at the election campaign that their policies post-May 12 would be the manifesto of [Serb Radical Party leader] Vojislav Šešelj,”
It was 100% clear that DSS would form a coalition with SRS and not DS this time around, they most certainly made it very clear they would be seeking a coalition with SRS.
Dacic was clear on where he stood before the election.
“We will coordinate all our future moves with the DSS... However, the election math clearly indicates that there will be no new parliamentary majority in Serbia without an agreement between the DSS-NS and our coalition. This is not wishful thinking but a political reality… It is true that they [SRS] are not too enthusiastic to see us in that government. That is why they keep saying that they want to make a majority only with the DSS, because they are sure that together with "the populists" they will have enough seats for a majority. But that is not realistic. They can do what they like, but they have to be aware that after Sunday [ 11 May election day] they will have to talk to us. And our attitude towards them will depend on their attitude towards us.”
So to summarize:
SRS = No SAA
DSS = No SAA
SPS = No SAA
SRS + DSS + SPS = Clear Majority of the Will of the People and a MANDATE for a new direction.
The polls have consistently shown the Serbian people do not want to join the EU without Kosovo and obviously they choose to send a message with their vote.
Petrovaradin, if you have a quote from Dacic showing support for the SAA, please feel free to post it. I’d love to hear from a long time SPS member on what they believed they were voting for.
All the parties pretty much have said Kosovo + EU, the election was about how to proceed. The election was about the SAA and whether the Serbian government had a mandate to ratify it. Clearly they do not.
I ask Tadic this: “Who is misleading whom?”
If only Tadic would accept the Will of the People, apologize to Kostunica, and form a DS-DSS government formed around annulling the SAA as they people have asked for.
Its hard to argue with Tadic on this, although I fully expect some of you to try. Two groupings in these elections basically argued "Kosovo OR the EU." They lost 250,000 votes from the last election. Another grouping, LDP, basically argued "EU NOT Kosovo" and received the same votes as the 2007 elections. And two other groupings, ZES and SPS-PUPS-JS, argued "Kosovo AND the EU" and gained 300,000 votes from the last election. This is why you should ignore all this marketing about an SRS-DSS-SPS coalition. You heard it here first.
The game Tadic plays may become very dangerous for the Serbs. Claiming that he has won, he may be preparing (with Solana, of course)some coup. He may soon swith to talk of the legitimacy of his 'victory' and invite Nato to intervene to 'restore Democracy'.
Far fetched? Not really, just observe Lebanon, this has become a classic tactics of our 'Big Brother'.
Serbs should be on guard.
Peter Sudyka, 4,099,372 in total voted in the recent Serbian parliamentary election. 3.2 million voting for the pro EU party seems to be a totally made up figure to me. Only 1.6 million voted for Tadic's "For a European Serbia" coalition.
Poland may have overtaken countries such as Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia and Hungary in terms of GDP per capita PPP recently. But that cannot be due to Poland being a member of the EU as those countries mentioned joined at the same time as Poland.
have an ever greater desire to hang on to power, and are the exact same people who wish to manipulate the national will and usurp power,” said the DS leader.
As early as 12th May, BBC's Mark Mardell called Tadic "a master of spin", of course with quite a bit of irony, just as Tadic celebrated a victory that never was. Since then, it has been really difficult to grasp what has been going in that man's head. Is it all due to a lack of (political) intellgence, is he in denial, are he and his spin doctor Srdjan Saper on some mind altering substances, is it maybe that he absolutely has to live up to somebody's expectations or is he simply a liar? I hope that everything will be clearer in a few days!
I think Tadic is right. There are 1 500 000 Serbs living in the EU, as well as about 3 200 000 Serbs who voted for the pro-EU party (most obviously younger and more qualified Serbs in both cases, the future and brains behind Serbia, who know what good the EU can do for Serbia), showing that Serbia leans to being a more pro-Western and pro-EU state rather than a Nationalist state as some Serbs here have suggested.
I think that this massive number of Serbs shows where Serbia would like to be, democratically speaking, and it would be a huge shame for the DSS-SRS coalition to ignore this if the EU does not change their stance to Kosovo, which they will never win back. I never though I would end up praising the EU, but for the first time this year I have seen the positive effects of the EU on Poland (we have even overtaken Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia and Hungary in terms of GDP per capita PPP recently), and I think that this is something most Serbs would like too, as I cannot see Serbia's economy prosper on European levels without the EU's backing.
Kostunica ignores the message of people which sent him nearly into political desert - but anyway, nothing lasted for long under his leadership, but he is really a world champion in bringing his back always on the best chair. majority of Serbia is gathering there, where Kostunica is sitting at.
Christos Manolas and all others, it seems to me that all commentators here fail to take any notice of the fact that Serbia has not got a single ANTI-EU party. There is no party in Serbia which is not for EUROPEAN INTEGRATIONS, the difference is in whether they should go ahead at any cost or not.
As a EU-sceptic myself, I think there should be a party in Serbia with a clear ANTI-EU stance as, unfortunately, neither of the parties in Serbia, including those led by Messrs Kostunica, Nikolic and Dacic advocates such programme.
There are some strange arguments here. T say that Tadic has lost the elections is ofcourse far from the truth. He has won the elections, but that doesn't mean that he can form an goverment.Ofcourse the DS can't form an goverment on its own but that's also true for all the other parties.
Kostunica can't form a goverment on its own, it's up to the DS in the first place to try and form an goverment. If the DS can't have the suport of at least the SPS then it's clear that a new goverment will have to be formed with the SRS, SPS and DSS. But if Kostunica is indeed more concerned about the will of the people instead of hanging on to power, he should at least acknowledge that his party has lost and that the people don't want him as premier anymore.
The previous goverment was disolved because there was two seperate views on how to react to Kosovo's (iligal) independence. Kostunica disolved the goverment, because he didn't agree with Tadic's aproach, and he let the people decide on how to continue. It's really simple in my view since it's clear to me that the people didn't suport Kostunica's view otherwise he wouldn't have lost even more seats compared to the previous election. Otherwise he would have lots more votes and wouldn't have lost, and the European block wouldn't have had the amount of votes it has received now no matter how many parties Tadic would have formed a pre-election block with.
Dear all,
Serbia is the hart of Balkans and nobody should ignore this.Hence,Europe needs Serbia.We all in the region seed Serbia to join the EU,at least and later on NATO.President Tadic is right.There is only one way.The world has changed and those who remain alone will not be able to survive.We all undeerstand how Serbs feel but this time it has to do with your existence as a state and as a nation.People are clever and understand.The will of the nation has been clearly stated.Do not hesitate.Join us ,join the rest of the region.
We need a democratic Serbia.Do not backpaddle.Support your president,think of your future and the future of your children.Once more thinks have changed in the region and it is obvious that President Tadic has got it and tries to lead Serbia where it should have already been.It is time in the Balkans for all people to think with their mind rather than with their heart.For the good of Serbia ,for the good of all in the region.
Ja samo se nadam da cete svi dobro razumeti sta kaem i cete podrziti Borisa Tadic.
Prijatno
Ali Ahmeti threatened renewed violence in Macedonia when his party was excluded from the governing coalition in the most recent elections...
Boris Tadic seems to be aping this 'I'm in power whatever any one else wants to think' mentality.
Certainly a 'master of spin', how much of this is tailored to his party faithful and his ever helpful EU 'friends'?
A coalition majority is a coalition majority. Full stop.
I suspect that EC bureacrats have already been in contact with the SPS, most likely by a 'friendly' third party to offer and threaten to get the coalition that the EU wants. Such manipulation is nothing new unfortunately.
So what can the EU offer the SPS that won't split its party? What is the threat? That is less difficult. One can expect an unofficial EU 'go slow/wait and see' policy if there is a DS/NS+SRS+SPS coalition. In effect, sanctions.
Of course, this will impact the economy and the rest of the Balkans, but the EU has always shown a willing preparedness to punish the Serbs regardless of the effects on their neighbors.
Or maybe a game of chicken, provoking such a coalition to do something that the EU can jump on, using the usual compliant anti-serb media and then imposing some form of sanctions.
Even if the SPS joins the Tadic coalition, is Tadic going to run Serbia for all of the Serbs, or the ~51% that voted for him. It is hardly a clear mandate, especially at a very sensitive time in Serbias international orientation. Not to mention holding such a coalition together for any reasonable amount of time....
Unfortuately, we cannot expect the foreigners to keep their meddling hands to themselves. It is the Balkans after all.
One a side note, Bulgaria may well have substantial assistance funds removed by the EC due to its dire corruption (why are they in the EU again?). I truely wonder how this will effect Bulgaria politically in acquiesence with EU policy, let alone relations with the US. It could be very interesting indeed....
Nooop Mr. Tadic,
Serbs and EU might be your desire, but your people are hell-bent on oncemore slaughtering Albanian´s and Bosniaks. Therefore they choose a Seselj-Substitution, not the EU!
Matthew you are right about Dacic's past statements but what a politician says in one moment, as you must know, isn't necessarily his position another time.
Not only have moderated statements appeared, since he made the ones you quoted, from other SPS officials but imagine the following: 'After consulting my coalition partners we have decided to support X coaltion'.
That is the statement we will eventually get from Dacic and if it is DS and he is pressed on the issue, he can imply that it was Markovic and PUPS and he agreed to hold a common position with his coalition partners as was the deal.
Bigger climbdowns have been seen. For example radicals are notorious promising to resign if they don't win this or that election, but they never do.
In 2000 Kostunica himself on state television said he would not remain in power for longer than one term and that proved not to be true either.
You are falling into the trap (that Tadic is also victim to) of assuming what the will of the people is. In the end it is for SPS to decide. That is the point people are making. In the end what SPS decide will be the mandate, although the rest of us may argue about it later.
I'm not sure that any government has ever been formed around rejecting an agreement before. I think that the government should be formed around the concept say of improving living standards, social justice and territorial integrity.
You should also remember that even if SRS/DSS coalition does take power that the SAA may still be passed. It will only take the votes of PUPS, in addition to Markovic who has suggest he will vote for it, to pass the SAA.
Your figures for the number of Serbians voting for pro-EU parties are wrong. Since every Serbian party is pro-EU, then all who voted cast their vote for the EU.
The issue is not whether Serbs are pro-EU; it is rather whether the EU is anti-Serb.
The EU should state its position clearly and unambiguously. Is the EU prepared to accept Serbia as a single sovereign nation or not?
It is the EU which will decide on Serbian membership. For this to happen however the pro-Serbians in the EU will need to assert themselves.
You are quite right, apologies for that, without thinking I calculated roughly 40% of Serbia's whole population and not just the voting one!
Regarding Poland, I know we joined when they did, but that was not the point, I just meant that Poland is growing and life is getting better here, and I think that Serbia can truly benefit from joining the EU as well, as it is not linked with Kosovo (in the sense that the EU as a whole does not have a pro-independence stance towards Kosovo due to some members, but the EU does have a positive stance towards Serbia joining the EU).
Serbia can enjoy the benefits of the EU whilst continuing to push for some proper settlement of Kosovo issue.
Mr kostunica with others they have been involved on deep affair against serbia and serbs. They are to much involved in lies,crime,robbering that they must do anything to protect theirselfgo in right way. If serbia will join europe than they will be discovered. The lies will come to the light. Srbian people will find out that they were leaded by criminals, robbers, war profiters etc. I think Kostunica will be happy if serbia and balkans will be involved in another war.
“You are falling into the trap (that Tadic is also victim to) of assuming what the will of the people is. In the end it is for SPS to decide. (bganon, 18 May 2008 01:19)”
bganon,
I agree with your points.
However, since we’re guessing what the “will of the people” is, I think the argument is stronger that it is for delaying the SAA, considering DSS, SRS and SPS all made statements before the election that they are against it at this time and that’s who got the majority of the vote. I’m a little offended by all the calls in the Western media to “support” the will of the people as if it were clear the Serbian people wanted to move closer to the EU regardless of the cost.
My arguement does seem to be consistent with the polls to me.
You may certainly be correct about Markovic.
However, I believe the most important thing Serbia can do is to stop calling each other traitors and work together to form a united front to support Kosovo.
Hopefully any SRS coalition won’t be so stupid as to push away the EU and burn bridges. Applying some pressure for a few more carrots in an intelligent fashion is a smart thing to do I think.
Clearly Serbia (and Russia too) belong in the EU. Such an EU would be the most powerful single country in the world. If the Balkans join the EU, that means I get EU citizenship too (through my wife), something I’d like to have as well. I’m not fond of the US culture in many ways. We work way too many hours, and we’re too uptight about drinking and minor nudity, etc. I work like 70 hours a week, and I have no time to spend with my family. I’m only doing that until I can open some kind of cafe (maybe in Novi Sad) where artists, musicians and poets can hang out and discuss things rationally. I’m an artist and song writer and my wife is an awarding winning poet.
I would very much like to have a kafa with you sometime in Belgrade and have an intelligent discussion. I respect your points and your intelligence greatly. You seem like a very interesting person.
Matthew you are probably too kind. I like to think I have the balance right and occasionally get a bit angry at what I see as lack of thought. It might grate on people a little, but hey if you keep your mouth shut, only the loudest will get heard. And in my experience the loudest quite often have least to say.
I'd be happy to take a coffee with you, you can catch me at lycos (not writing the full mail for fear of spamming but you can guess it).
Sounds like a heavy workload. I feel fortunate not to have had to work hours like that in my life, in fact I feel lazy now. But yes, I hope you can gather some finance together and open that cafe. You will probably feel like you are in seventh heaven after the rat race.
Nooop Mr. Tadic,
Serbs and EU might be your desire, but your people are hell-bent on oncemore slaughtering Albanian´s and Bosniaks. Therefore they choose a Seselj-Substitution, not the EU!
Mr kostunica with others they have been involved on deep affair against serbia and serbs. They are to much involved in lies,crime,robbering that they must do anything to protect theirselfgo in right way. If serbia will join europe than they will be discovered. The lies will come to the light. Srbian people will find out that they were leaded by criminals, robbers, war profiters etc. I think Kostunica will be happy if serbia and balkans will be involved in another war.
Kostunica ignores the message of people which sent him nearly into political desert - but anyway, nothing lasted for long under his leadership, but he is really a world champion in bringing his back always on the best chair. majority of Serbia is gathering there, where Kostunica is sitting at.
Dear all,
Serbia is the hart of Balkans and nobody should ignore this.Hence,Europe needs Serbia.We all in the region seed Serbia to join the EU,at least and later on NATO.President Tadic is right.There is only one way.The world has changed and those who remain alone will not be able to survive.We all undeerstand how Serbs feel but this time it has to do with your existence as a state and as a nation.People are clever and understand.The will of the nation has been clearly stated.Do not hesitate.Join us ,join the rest of the region.
We need a democratic Serbia.Do not backpaddle.Support your president,think of your future and the future of your children.Once more thinks have changed in the region and it is obvious that President Tadic has got it and tries to lead Serbia where it should have already been.It is time in the Balkans for all people to think with their mind rather than with their heart.For the good of Serbia ,for the good of all in the region.
Ja samo se nadam da cete svi dobro razumeti sta kaem i cete podrziti Borisa Tadic.
Prijatno
I think Tadic is right. There are 1 500 000 Serbs living in the EU, as well as about 3 200 000 Serbs who voted for the pro-EU party (most obviously younger and more qualified Serbs in both cases, the future and brains behind Serbia, who know what good the EU can do for Serbia), showing that Serbia leans to being a more pro-Western and pro-EU state rather than a Nationalist state as some Serbs here have suggested.
I think that this massive number of Serbs shows where Serbia would like to be, democratically speaking, and it would be a huge shame for the DSS-SRS coalition to ignore this if the EU does not change their stance to Kosovo, which they will never win back. I never though I would end up praising the EU, but for the first time this year I have seen the positive effects of the EU on Poland (we have even overtaken Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia and Hungary in terms of GDP per capita PPP recently), and I think that this is something most Serbs would like too, as I cannot see Serbia's economy prosper on European levels without the EU's backing.
There are some strange arguments here. T say that Tadic has lost the elections is ofcourse far from the truth. He has won the elections, but that doesn't mean that he can form an goverment.Ofcourse the DS can't form an goverment on its own but that's also true for all the other parties.
Kostunica can't form a goverment on its own, it's up to the DS in the first place to try and form an goverment. If the DS can't have the suport of at least the SPS then it's clear that a new goverment will have to be formed with the SRS, SPS and DSS. But if Kostunica is indeed more concerned about the will of the people instead of hanging on to power, he should at least acknowledge that his party has lost and that the people don't want him as premier anymore.
The previous goverment was disolved because there was two seperate views on how to react to Kosovo's (iligal) independence. Kostunica disolved the goverment, because he didn't agree with Tadic's aproach, and he let the people decide on how to continue. It's really simple in my view since it's clear to me that the people didn't suport Kostunica's view otherwise he wouldn't have lost even more seats compared to the previous election. Otherwise he would have lots more votes and wouldn't have lost, and the European block wouldn't have had the amount of votes it has received now no matter how many parties Tadic would have formed a pre-election block with.
You are quite right, apologies for that, without thinking I calculated roughly 40% of Serbia's whole population and not just the voting one!
Regarding Poland, I know we joined when they did, but that was not the point, I just meant that Poland is growing and life is getting better here, and I think that Serbia can truly benefit from joining the EU as well, as it is not linked with Kosovo (in the sense that the EU as a whole does not have a pro-independence stance towards Kosovo due to some members, but the EU does have a positive stance towards Serbia joining the EU).
Serbia can enjoy the benefits of the EU whilst continuing to push for some proper settlement of Kosovo issue.
Matthew you are right about Dacic's past statements but what a politician says in one moment, as you must know, isn't necessarily his position another time.
Not only have moderated statements appeared, since he made the ones you quoted, from other SPS officials but imagine the following: 'After consulting my coalition partners we have decided to support X coaltion'.
That is the statement we will eventually get from Dacic and if it is DS and he is pressed on the issue, he can imply that it was Markovic and PUPS and he agreed to hold a common position with his coalition partners as was the deal.
Bigger climbdowns have been seen. For example radicals are notorious promising to resign if they don't win this or that election, but they never do.
In 2000 Kostunica himself on state television said he would not remain in power for longer than one term and that proved not to be true either.
You are falling into the trap (that Tadic is also victim to) of assuming what the will of the people is. In the end it is for SPS to decide. That is the point people are making. In the end what SPS decide will be the mandate, although the rest of us may argue about it later.
I'm not sure that any government has ever been formed around rejecting an agreement before. I think that the government should be formed around the concept say of improving living standards, social justice and territorial integrity.
You should also remember that even if SRS/DSS coalition does take power that the SAA may still be passed. It will only take the votes of PUPS, in addition to Markovic who has suggest he will vote for it, to pass the SAA.
Its hard to argue with Tadic on this, although I fully expect some of you to try. Two groupings in these elections basically argued "Kosovo OR the EU." They lost 250,000 votes from the last election. Another grouping, LDP, basically argued "EU NOT Kosovo" and received the same votes as the 2007 elections. And two other groupings, ZES and SPS-PUPS-JS, argued "Kosovo AND the EU" and gained 300,000 votes from the last election. This is why you should ignore all this marketing about an SRS-DSS-SPS coalition. You heard it here first.
Matthew you are probably too kind. I like to think I have the balance right and occasionally get a bit angry at what I see as lack of thought. It might grate on people a little, but hey if you keep your mouth shut, only the loudest will get heard. And in my experience the loudest quite often have least to say.
I'd be happy to take a coffee with you, you can catch me at lycos (not writing the full mail for fear of spamming but you can guess it).
Sounds like a heavy workload. I feel fortunate not to have had to work hours like that in my life, in fact I feel lazy now. But yes, I hope you can gather some finance together and open that cafe. You will probably feel like you are in seventh heaven after the rat race.
have an ever greater desire to hang on to power, and are the exact same people who wish to manipulate the national will and usurp power,” said the DS leader.
No doubt that your coalition received more votes than others individually but collectively, your coalition clearly did not get the majority needed to form a government. The meer fact that your party is seeking support from other parties is proof of that.
Collectively, the voters did not chose your coalition to lead the country.
Tadic repeats this lie over and over again but this doesn't make it more true!
The ones who won the elections are the ones who have a majority and it's not the Canak, Dinkic, Tadic coalition.
I don't recall Tadic using the same argument of "the will of the voters" in 2003 or 2007 when SRS was the largest single party in Serbia!
You better admit it now Mr Tadic: you have LOST the elections!
The game Tadic plays may become very dangerous for the Serbs. Claiming that he has won, he may be preparing (with Solana, of course)some coup. He may soon swith to talk of the legitimacy of his 'victory' and invite Nato to intervene to 'restore Democracy'.
Far fetched? Not really, just observe Lebanon, this has become a classic tactics of our 'Big Brother'.
Serbs should be on guard.
As early as 12th May, BBC's Mark Mardell called Tadic "a master of spin", of course with quite a bit of irony, just as Tadic celebrated a victory that never was. Since then, it has been really difficult to grasp what has been going in that man's head. Is it all due to a lack of (political) intellgence, is he in denial, are he and his spin doctor Srdjan Saper on some mind altering substances, is it maybe that he absolutely has to live up to somebody's expectations or is he simply a liar? I hope that everything will be clearer in a few days!
Petrovaradin, I’ll go ahead and give rational argument a try.
I believe you are incorrect if you think SPS supported the SAA in their campaign platform. The following quote is from BEFORE the election.
“[Babovic] Both the DSS and the Radicals say that they will annul the SAA [Stability and Association Agreement] when they come to power. Why are you silent on this?
[Dacic] Because we were against even initialing it. We are not against entering the EU, but we believe that we should first determine what the Brussels attitude towards Serbia is, and whether they also plan to offer such an agreement to Kosovo soon.”
Tadic is also misleading the public in his statements
“The Democratic Party of Serbia (DSS) did not warn its voters at the election campaign that their policies post-May 12 would be the manifesto of [Serb Radical Party leader] Vojislav Šešelj,”
It was 100% clear that DSS would form a coalition with SRS and not DS this time around, they most certainly made it very clear they would be seeking a coalition with SRS.
Dacic was clear on where he stood before the election.
“We will coordinate all our future moves with the DSS... However, the election math clearly indicates that there will be no new parliamentary majority in Serbia without an agreement between the DSS-NS and our coalition. This is not wishful thinking but a political reality… It is true that they [SRS] are not too enthusiastic to see us in that government. That is why they keep saying that they want to make a majority only with the DSS, because they are sure that together with "the populists" they will have enough seats for a majority. But that is not realistic. They can do what they like, but they have to be aware that after Sunday [ 11 May election day] they will have to talk to us. And our attitude towards them will depend on their attitude towards us.”
So to summarize:
SRS = No SAA
DSS = No SAA
SPS = No SAA
SRS + DSS + SPS = Clear Majority of the Will of the People and a MANDATE for a new direction.
The polls have consistently shown the Serbian people do not want to join the EU without Kosovo and obviously they choose to send a message with their vote.
Petrovaradin, if you have a quote from Dacic showing support for the SAA, please feel free to post it. I’d love to hear from a long time SPS member on what they believed they were voting for.
All the parties pretty much have said Kosovo + EU, the election was about how to proceed. The election was about the SAA and whether the Serbian government had a mandate to ratify it. Clearly they do not.
I ask Tadic this: “Who is misleading whom?”
If only Tadic would accept the Will of the People, apologize to Kostunica, and form a DS-DSS government formed around annulling the SAA as they people have asked for.
Peter Sudyka, 4,099,372 in total voted in the recent Serbian parliamentary election. 3.2 million voting for the pro EU party seems to be a totally made up figure to me. Only 1.6 million voted for Tadic's "For a European Serbia" coalition.
Poland may have overtaken countries such as Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia and Hungary in terms of GDP per capita PPP recently. But that cannot be due to Poland being a member of the EU as those countries mentioned joined at the same time as Poland.
Christos Manolas and all others, it seems to me that all commentators here fail to take any notice of the fact that Serbia has not got a single ANTI-EU party. There is no party in Serbia which is not for EUROPEAN INTEGRATIONS, the difference is in whether they should go ahead at any cost or not.
As a EU-sceptic myself, I think there should be a party in Serbia with a clear ANTI-EU stance as, unfortunately, neither of the parties in Serbia, including those led by Messrs Kostunica, Nikolic and Dacic advocates such programme.
Your figures for the number of Serbians voting for pro-EU parties are wrong. Since every Serbian party is pro-EU, then all who voted cast their vote for the EU.
The issue is not whether Serbs are pro-EU; it is rather whether the EU is anti-Serb.
The EU should state its position clearly and unambiguously. Is the EU prepared to accept Serbia as a single sovereign nation or not?
It is the EU which will decide on Serbian membership. For this to happen however the pro-Serbians in the EU will need to assert themselves.
Ali Ahmeti threatened renewed violence in Macedonia when his party was excluded from the governing coalition in the most recent elections...
Boris Tadic seems to be aping this 'I'm in power whatever any one else wants to think' mentality.
Certainly a 'master of spin', how much of this is tailored to his party faithful and his ever helpful EU 'friends'?
A coalition majority is a coalition majority. Full stop.
I suspect that EC bureacrats have already been in contact with the SPS, most likely by a 'friendly' third party to offer and threaten to get the coalition that the EU wants. Such manipulation is nothing new unfortunately.
So what can the EU offer the SPS that won't split its party? What is the threat? That is less difficult. One can expect an unofficial EU 'go slow/wait and see' policy if there is a DS/NS+SRS+SPS coalition. In effect, sanctions.
Of course, this will impact the economy and the rest of the Balkans, but the EU has always shown a willing preparedness to punish the Serbs regardless of the effects on their neighbors.
Or maybe a game of chicken, provoking such a coalition to do something that the EU can jump on, using the usual compliant anti-serb media and then imposing some form of sanctions.
Even if the SPS joins the Tadic coalition, is Tadic going to run Serbia for all of the Serbs, or the ~51% that voted for him. It is hardly a clear mandate, especially at a very sensitive time in Serbias international orientation. Not to mention holding such a coalition together for any reasonable amount of time....
Unfortuately, we cannot expect the foreigners to keep their meddling hands to themselves. It is the Balkans after all.
One a side note, Bulgaria may well have substantial assistance funds removed by the EC due to its dire corruption (why are they in the EU again?). I truely wonder how this will effect Bulgaria politically in acquiesence with EU policy, let alone relations with the US. It could be very interesting indeed....
“You are falling into the trap (that Tadic is also victim to) of assuming what the will of the people is. In the end it is for SPS to decide. (bganon, 18 May 2008 01:19)”
bganon,
I agree with your points.
However, since we’re guessing what the “will of the people” is, I think the argument is stronger that it is for delaying the SAA, considering DSS, SRS and SPS all made statements before the election that they are against it at this time and that’s who got the majority of the vote. I’m a little offended by all the calls in the Western media to “support” the will of the people as if it were clear the Serbian people wanted to move closer to the EU regardless of the cost.
My arguement does seem to be consistent with the polls to me.
You may certainly be correct about Markovic.
However, I believe the most important thing Serbia can do is to stop calling each other traitors and work together to form a united front to support Kosovo.
Hopefully any SRS coalition won’t be so stupid as to push away the EU and burn bridges. Applying some pressure for a few more carrots in an intelligent fashion is a smart thing to do I think.
Clearly Serbia (and Russia too) belong in the EU. Such an EU would be the most powerful single country in the world. If the Balkans join the EU, that means I get EU citizenship too (through my wife), something I’d like to have as well. I’m not fond of the US culture in many ways. We work way too many hours, and we’re too uptight about drinking and minor nudity, etc. I work like 70 hours a week, and I have no time to spend with my family. I’m only doing that until I can open some kind of cafe (maybe in Novi Sad) where artists, musicians and poets can hang out and discuss things rationally. I’m an artist and song writer and my wife is an awarding winning poet.
I would very much like to have a kafa with you sometime in Belgrade and have an intelligent discussion. I respect your points and your intelligence greatly. You seem like a very interesting person.
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