The scramble to put together a government coalition has started, with the DSS-NS and the Radicals (SRS) so far the only parties that officially met for talks.
I don`t think that the biggest problem is who will form the next government. The biggest problem is that serbs are a divided nation. Not only politically, but also geographical. You have a "european" majority in the north and a "nationalist" majority in central Serbia. Of course, Serbia will not fall apart as a country, but the differences will increase.
Serbia has been around for centuries. I highly doubt America will be around for that long. America can learn a thing or two from Serbia about survival. Americans have no right coming on this board and lecturing Serbia when America cannot even prevent millions of illegal immigrants from entering their country. Many EU countries, for that matter, have the same problem. Why? Because politicians are too scared to be labeled racist. How about that for "western-style" government.
The EU is not a friend of Serbia!! The people here who think voting Radical will hurt Serbia and are against the Serbian peoples best interest should read outside the western media and are obviously ignorant on this subject!
The West has stopped at nothing to destroy Serbia, it has fabricated and blamed you for ever crime possible to achieve its objectives and now it has taken Kosovo.
The EU will promise you everything to have Tadic elected so Kosovo will be lost!
By the way there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism, no over country would stand by and watch as their country being robbed from them!!
"My recommendation is that Serbian people need to take Kosova out of their equation and focus on prosperity of Serbia without Kosova !!! Even Russian newspapers are saying this:
[link]/
Peace.
(Mr. X, 13 May 2008 16:40)"
Mr X,
you really should read your links more carefully. The article was written by someone from the Serbian news agency Beta -- probably a LDP or Tadic supporter. Not the Russians.
As unlikely as it sounds, maybe SPS does have a reason to join up with DS.
Right now, the Western Media is portraying them as having “left behind” the Milosevic era and becoming merely a left orientated party. Strange as it would be, sounds like the West is ready to accept SPS back into their loving arms as long as they play ball.
However, I think it’s unlikely.
The most probable outcome is they will court DS to get a better deal with SRS. Kostunica will take a back seat this time around and SPS will be leading the nation once again and the West will cry out against a return to Milosevism….
Anyways, to the vultures running around calling everyone who doesn’t agree with them traitors.
Only Unity Saves the Serbs.
We turn on ourselves and we lose everything.
A debate on the merits or dangers of moving towards the EU is healthy. Name calling only hurts our Country and our people and our noble cause.
I’m ashamed of the behavior of nearly all the politicians and the mindless stupid things they did up to the election. I’m seeing that filtering down to the comments section way too much right now.
Now it is time to focus and support the future government. Let us try putting some pressure on the EU on the Kosovo issue, but let’s not be stupid about it. If we are smart about it, no doors will be closed, and a few might actually be opened. Moving towards Russia a bit will get us a much better deal with the EU in the future. The EU can not allow Russia to regain a sphere of influence in their stated domain. They may be willing to pay a high price to keep that from happening. Russia might also be willing to match that price. Let us find out.
Willie I think we both know that Kurir isn't reliable and that the G17 story is part of Rodic's way to get back at Dinkic for sending the tax inspectors in a few days ago.
If you are a close observer of the Serbian political scene you must know that the story hasn't the slightest truth to it. You must equally know that Palma has given us a clue on the SAA already.
I'm not saying it will happen but my source is not from Kurir rather 2 separate ones from 2 different political parties. The Ilic story I heard over a month ago and from a v good source close to New Serbia. I would reveal it but it could get B92 into trouble.
Willie I think you are half right on the DS position of Kosovo. The issue is not whether to sell Kosovo. The issue is the approach to be taken. In DS there are different streams of thought, most believe that Kosovo should be split, but a minority think Kosovo is lost
'Eagle' Wrote:
"Way to go Serbia, you are never going to learn. Good luck with your radical government. Bye bye Europe for another 100 years."
Goodbye Europe for another 100 years? I'm still boggled by such comments, and Tadic's campaign slogan "For a European Serbia"... Since when does Serbia not lie within the confines of the European continent? Does being part of the European Union, a bully organization, that countries within Europe have no guaranteed benefits from (other than the powerful and wealthy), define being part of the European continent? I think not. Serbia has been part of Europe since the constituent countries of the continent have been defined and drawn on World Maps, and will remain this way. Give me a break.
I praise and have gained a greater amount of respect for the Serbian government and people, who have not given into the demands of the big bully of Europe - the EU. Why on earth would a sovereign country give into demands of a bully organization? It would simply make them a puppet, just like every other small(er) and less powerful country in Europe.
Eagle (#24)
"Bye,Bye Europe for another 100 years", you say?
Why,Good Riddens to Bad Rubbish and let's hope it is forever. We don't need the new edition of of the Austro-Hungarian empire a.k.a the EU.
As from now on we'll associate with the peoples who respect us.
No more toadying to anybody, we were not born to live on our knees.
The idea of splitting G17 from "European Serbia" is no less far fetched than the two possibilities your promulgate. I have heard all three in the past 4 days. Two of them, your two, have been denied by Palma and Ilic themselves - see today's Kurir. My one, has yet to be renounced by Dinkic. But there again, is Kurir reliable?
I am no SRS junkie. As an expat, all this idle gossip is just that, idle gossip. It makes little difference to me who goes into coalition with whom. I see adbantages and disadvantages with each combination.
But here's one other piece of (idle) gossip that you clearly have not heard or chose to ignore. About 1/3rd of the DS parlimentary party is at odds with the other 2/3rds regarding the stance over Kosovo. Tadic, in the 2/3rds camp, has been warned that any 'selling' of Kosovo in exchange for fastrack into the EU will result in a split of the party. His recent 'hardline' stance re the Kosovo issue has not been for the electorate but to maintain unity of his own party!
Evidently the only thing you are interested in Serbia is Russia. Now that the masks are off we can see it's a common Western approach to root out from the cold war. Yet you can do nothing about it. You can calm yourself down with the fake speculations about Russia's prospects and Serbia's prospects with Russia.
The things run quite good and very soon you'll be witnessing Russia's turn to the East. Like the Serbs we have beenknoking on the closed EU door to long. Now we shall see which side needs the other's cooperation more urgent. Next year we shall gain back Nr.1 Euro economy title with only 34% of the GNP to be formed with energy resorses.
Most evident is that pro-Russian parties will form the cabinet and we'll have a chance to prove that the Serbs may quite prosper without EU free cheese in the trap. Tell them the truth that Berlusconi's new allies will never let them enter EU ! Be honest at least this on time !
Mr Happy go lucky you are confusing me with Dragan Palma. Why pose the question to me as to what Palma can gain from joining the government? Surely you can work it out for yourself. If you wait a few days you might get the opportunity to see for yourself if / when he states his reasons. Of course I can't rule out you blaming me somehow for his decisions, that is at least the tone of your post. If another so called patriot decides to betray his country as you might see it, you might want to ask yourself what is wrong with (self) professed patriots, rather than blaming the outside world. Is their patriotism outweighed by lined pockets? If so were they ever patriots in the first place? And how many 'patriots' scream about their love of Serbia (for your vote) only to ditch their patriotism for a price? To be clear the outside world will be a factor but the real deals will go on between the parties, who gets what and for how much. Thats realistic.
Willie winkle I don't know where you get your theories from concerning G17 joining SRS / DSS. Frankly I can't take it seriously. And I think that something stronger than alcohol must be involved for you to entertain such ideas.
Still, do let us know where you read this, sounds fascinating.
I'm awfully fond of the ever so emotional supporters of the SRS variety. But I don't do blind faith.
if there should really be another armed conflict, my dear friends...it´s crystal-clear, that the losers would be the kla-bandits with their drug-and-prostitution circles...
Enzo (#9)
is arguing against himself when he says that Serbs haven't changed since Milosevic. They are guilty of everything he claims, as alleged, etc.etc.etc
What Enzo doesn't seem to understand is that there are so many Serbs who do not give hoot about all that, and what is more, it is they who are going to form the new Government of Serbia.
You are trying in vain to play on some guilt complex which some toadies like Natasa Kandic have been peddling for a while now.
What did,indeed, change is that the Serbs had decided to have a Government which is going to meet the aspiration of the Serbian People.
Just too bad what anybody else thinks about it.
Clear enough?
Nikolic's nationalist party is expected to join forces with outgoing prime minister Vojislav Kostunica's Democratic Party with 30 seats, which will leave both pro-Western Tadic and Nikolic chasing coalitions with the Socialists and Liberals to try and get the necessary 126 seats needed for a parliamentary majority.-
Maybe these two along with the Socialists make that bloc of REAL SERB PATRIOTS whose aim is not EU above all but all Serbia before any EU/CIA/NATO etc.
The 'key' is national awakening and political emancipation...
Princip, UK: Yore right Serbia is being yoused as a pawn another piece of the puzzle for Brussels. Turkey will be next with all of its problems will be let in to the EU and overlooked. They are heading for the oil and to finish off Israel they will be the Arabs good friends for a price both ways the end to the Jews they tried to wipe out in Europe truly a evil alliance will be coming up wo to any one standing in the way like Serbia.
Your comment made about Russia supporting an DS lead government is simply propaganda. This statement was simply made to show that Russia wants a pro-eu government but in reality they know what is coming and are more than happy to work with the Radicals and obviously their boy, Mr. Kostunica. Why would they want to start all over again and work with DS when they very well know that if they form the new government, the doors will be shut on russia and srbija will only look west which is the last thing russia wants to see. That is why they want a Radical lead government with Kostunica as its face which is why we hear all these rumors about the radicals giving the PM spot to him. Isnt it obvious that Mr. Nikolic and Mr. Kostunica both met with Russian officials before the presidential elections a few months ago. You put one and one together and it all makes sense. Therefore, we will not have a Tadic lead government but a SERBIAN lead one with SRS/DSS/SPS!
Of course, radicals, DSS, SPS should form a government and tell to Solana and others who are the winners! They can pretend how ever they want, but polls can be checked and double checked. It seems somebody have problems in maths...
rolerkoster, I have no idea what you are doing on this planet considering the overwhelming world majority support Serbia's integrity. How can you breath the same air as us? (ZK UK, 13 May 2008 14:15)
I am really glad that I don't need to breathe the same air like yours. there's enough air free of the odour caused by animosity against other ethnic groups - and politics based on such an animosity.
the overwhelming majority you are talking about, how long will it exist? you are talking about a rather short period of three months in a struggle, which started three decades ago. from a realistic point of view it the most successful period on the way of Kosovo towards self-determination. a Serbian DS/SRS/SPS government would ring the bell for the next successful period in this historical process.
Not one word of what you copy & pasted where your own but rather CNN/BBC/War street journal/Pentagon etc.
Im sure most of us can look it up or consult Natasha Kandic without your help if we want to get our fix for the day, i´ts all there,"serbs" "brutal" "Milosevic" "Genocide" "10000000+killed" "ultra nationalists" whatever.
Please dont be shy, share some thoughts of your own Enzo, if you know anything about fact & figure. I´m listening.
"Serbian citizens have said at the elections that they want to be part of the EU and any government that fulfills those hopes, will be acceptable"
Acceptable?? The arrogance of this man is breathtaking. I assume a DSS/SRS/SPS coalition would not be "acceptable" to Mr Solana. Well Javier, if that's the way it turns out you're going to have to accept it whether you like it or not. Or will you send in the bombers again?
Tadic's acting as a football fan when his team scores, without waiting for the final result of the match. If the degree of euphoria was the deciding factor in this election, Boris sure would be the uncontested champ.
As things shape up, his exaltation may have a short expiration date.
An immature behaviour of the head of a state, can hardly give a decent image to the country.
He said the DSS-NS coalition has promoted four principles: Kosovo within Serbia, fight against corruption, economic development, and as a modified principle – European integrations, but not unconditionally, in other words, only with Kosovo as a part of Serbia.
He added cooperation with the Hague Tribunal must be viewed as an obligation for the state, not a government program principle.
--
All of these principles seem to align well with the major parties - being SRS/DSS-NS/SPS so the glue will be that much stronger.
I cannot see any other alternative apart from a force marriage which is doomed to failure.
The SPS, which holds the key, will ask that Kosovo is preserved within Serbia and that would be a condition to join the EU, however, they seek a European path. Also that Hague co-operation will be voluntary.
Lets hope the new government is formed within the next week or two. Samo napred Srbija!
I must say your grapevine is certainly offering up some humorous anecdotes to the current situation. Shame there is little substance and factual basis to the gossip. In fact, it seems to read more like wishful thinking on the part of a lamenting DS activist.
DS overtures to SPS are well-known. However, your stories of peeling away the SPS Palma tree, or the NS seljak is no different from the gossip about peeling 17 Gs from a "European Serbia" and creating a SRS/DSS/G17 (132 seats) coalition. Strange you didn't mention that last option. Too embarrasing to contemplate perhaps?
In conclusion, it seems your grapes have withered on the vine and you've resorted to drinking last years not-so-vintage beaujolais nouveau. Hic!
What I don't understand is that even Russia wants DS to form the next government, then how are the Serbian people against that?
They don't want Europe and they don't want to be isolated. However, Russia is asking them to focus on EU and for for Tadic to form the government.
So all this talk that the DS are Solana boys is pure propaganda, they are supported by Russia as well.
Speaking honestly I believe the SRS and DSS will drive Serbia into a pit where it will be very tough to get out once in. I see a civil war happening if that is the government that is formed.
The DSS and SRS say that they want EU with Kosova as part of their territory, which they know will never happen! The major European countries recognized Kosova and they wont take that back.
So how in the world will Serbia ever enter EU with DSS and SRS in government?
The answer to that is that Serbia doesn't want EU membership. However, Russia is demanding that from Serbia. We can live on our own, which is of course possible, but the standard of living will suffer greatly because of isolation - but that probably does not matter to Serbian nationalists as long as they live on the dream that Kosova is theirs!!! So they do all this just by keeping a dream alive!!!
My recommendation is that Serbian people need to take Kosova out of their equation and focus on prosperity of Serbia without Kosova !!! Even Russian newspapers are saying this:
http://www.kommersant.com/p890979/r_527/Analysis_of_the_outcome_of_elections_in_Serbia_May_11/
Whomever makes or has made the arguement that Serbia has moved on from it's recent history led by the brutal Slobodan Milosevic, please note that even a decade after his fall, his party is still playing a crucial role in the future of Serbia! In other words, a whole decade has past, and Serbia is still consumed by the same nationalistic, hate-mongoring, regressive ideas it had when it was recognized as the source of trouble for the Ballkans. So you tell me, how much has really changed? As the saying goes "You can take a Leopard out of it's environment, but a Leopard never changes his spots". Look around you and you will see that the world has changed radically: 1)For the first time in recent World history either a black man or a woman will lead the superpower of the world 2) For the first time in Switzerland's neutral political history, it decided to pick sides and chose to recognize Kosovo, over remaining neutral on the issue!!! They maintained neutralitiy even during the Yugoslavia's disintegration, and WWII. Yet, they were compelled to support Kosovar's on the issue of independence. 3) France, who has historically been a Russian-leaning ally in Western Europe, decided to be the leader in the promotion of Kosovo independence. 4) Even China, with it's own Tibetian problem, has not made any major noise or objections over this issue. Yes they disagree with the west, but they have not been as vocal about it as the Russians. Now let's go back to Serbia, and your brethren Russian's. Ten year's past, nothing gained! Still the same people, with the same ancient ideas, and no progression. This is truly pathetic. Surely someone will mention how Russia's influence with it's oil money has returned it to super-power status. Wrong. They have returned to a dictatorship, and the oil fortunes will surely run out soon or the world will find alternative sources as this model is unsustainable any way, and Russia will return to what it was in a past...A Shell. Plus, you can not have 2 superpowers in the same hemisphere! China is determined and better positioned to outplay Russia for the superpower role in Asia. Even India is better positioned.
to the fella with the grapevine
your grapevine is public secret for more than three days and really mere speculation and psychological warfare so to speak. clutching at straws even.
tadic will team up with arkan's best man palma, and ceda will support this from the back benches is it. might one inquire, what monstrous nature would such a coalition have? what external force and for what reason would drive people to stoop so low? and what kind of glue would keep it together, and what kind of benefit could serbia possibly have from it?
by the by, external forces will decide this. we'll just see who has more irons in the fire in serbia.
your palma for fm, ilic for pm sounds pretty desperate to me.
the only truth here is that what happens next is anybody's guess and that ds claim that they must have government because they got the most votes is preposterous propaganda. radicals won the most votes twice in the past four or so years so what. either you come up with 126 mps to vote your government in or you shut up.
bganon, it sounds to me like the roots of this grapevine lead to the EU/US. I don't understand why anyone would risk losing out of a government that is pretty much a done deal. Only some minor details need to be worked out.
rolerkoster, I have no idea what you are doing on this planet considering the overwhelming world majority support Serbia's integrity. How can you breath the same air as us?
OK I'm going to be open on what I've heard through the grapevine.
DS have decided to target SPS as coalition partners. Their joker in the pack is Dragan Markovic (trojan horse is more accurate) so if SPS does not play ball Dragan Makovic will peel away his mandates and add them to DS, the minorities will also join DS. There is a possibility in this scenario of LDP giving support from the backbenches.
The alternative is SPS supporting DS as a whole, which Dacic will consider. However, LDP will not support such a government in any form. This means that SPS will have power beyond its numbers and to some extent will be DSS' trojan horse in the government. They would gain a ministry or two and places on management boards of public companies (the railways, perhaps lucrative road building project companies etc).
The alternative less likely but still an option is that New Serbia will betray DSS, peel away their mandates and join DS. In this scenario Ilic is demanding the post of Prime Minister (DS knew this before and it was one reason why the PM job has been left vacant). Ilic will probably back down from this demand but will drive a very hard bargain. For himself he would demand a superministry, perhaps including NIP which would put vast money at his disposal.
From a DS perspective this option is better that with SPS, but not as good as Markovic defecting.
Another option is an LDP, DS coalition supported by SPS from the backbenches. However, DS is not keen because LDP will make many demands and would not be happy for SPS support. On the other hand such a government would be less stable because of the us and them thing going on between 'traitors' and 'patriots'. SPS could bring the government down at any moment and they probably would.
The last option is DSS joining DS. Not really likely at all since DSS would want the PM spot for Kostunica as a price to back down on European issues. There is an outside chance that DSS could support a minority government but again DS does not want this as DSS are notorious back seat drivers.
dear Anglo-Serbs! why are you still living in a state which recognised the UDI of Kosovo? why don't you finish your private colaboration with this state by paying taxes there - which gonna finance the EULEX mission? as long as you are personifications of double standards, no one can credit your polemics. get real, dear Anglo-Serbs!
The SPS teaming up with the DSS was always the plan and the DSS had a very similar policy to the SRS but chose to stay separate to maximise votes. That worked well as they achieved 108 seats compared to the DS/EU coalition of 102.
So with the SPS in the picture, the SRS/DSS/SPS can form a government with 128 seats plus the possibility of the Bosniaks joining making 130. Now this would be a respectable government with similar policies and one directed at preserving Serbia's integrity.
So what is the alternative? The SPS forming a government with the DS coalition and what? The Albanians, Hungarians or LDP? None of which care for Kosovo's integrity so that is highly unlikely. Also, since signing the SAA, the DS have excluded themselves from any formation with the DSS and that really only makes one possibility - an SRS/DSS/SPS government! Kosovo will be protected and Serbia can only join the EU with Kosovo.
This talk about a DS victory is really only half baked. The SRS achieved a higher precentage in the previous two elections and also went into opposition.
I do expect the next government to be formed very quickly as there is some very important work to do. The next PM will be Koštunica in all likelihood. I will be glad when this happens and all of the deceit coming from the EU/US stops.
Congratulations to the citizens of Serbia for making this possible.
SPS-PUPS-JS should take note of what Tadic/Canaks European 'friend' Rupel in his double talk states for the "equal" partner of Serbia with regards its soverignty;
"“The EU expects the new government to engage constructively in regional cooperation,” the statement concludes. "
- we all understand what Rupel means by "regional cooperation" since there is no confirmation of mutual respect and insistance that UN recognised soverignity is upheld as re-affirmed by UN SC approved resolution 1244. Slovenia has acted illegally and DS and Co. is happy to be part of this deceit.
There willl be some soul searching - should SPS be party (vassaldom) to so called "friend" (dictat) or is it more noble to stay true to ones principles of a socially inclusive society?
More over SPS-PUPS-JS contrast with Rupels words on another nation not even in Europe but on the periphery of Europe's geographic boundaries;
"Slovenian Foreign Minister Dmitrij Rupel said the EU was reiterating its backing for Georgia's sovereignty..."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7396803.stm
Again ET TU EU one day hence from an election !!!
Lets hope that SPS-PUPS-JS see this deceit fully and they fully appreciate that the likes of Rupel, Rehn, Solana et al have no regard or mutual respect for Serbia beyond their own interest let alone the ordinary people of Serbia and that is in the totally opposite direction of what this government forming list coalition represent!
They (self interested EU elites) have done their dirty business and are satisfied that their deception has worked not in the interest the of Serbia and Serbian peoples nor for that matter for the peoples of the EU but that of their own self inflating, self congratulating, self rewarding indivual gain !!!
But have they counted their chickens too early?
That Tadic and co can not see this or choose to ignore the reality that each Serb is just a very small pawn (as is Serbia as a whole) that can be tossed aside in some imperialistic hegemonic game being palyed by the US/EU'some' western elites in a weird (self created) game of dominance against any who have a different perspective or viewpoint against the elites own self /individual I, I, I, self- serving society says volumes.
Yes Serbia may not gain or delevop as rapidly as it would given it follows its own path which would be made harder and difficult by 'some' (but not all) in the EU but in this way all will be better off rather then a few who will have gained in a spectacular way while others lose out!
I think the Socialists comprehend the choice they must make and holding true to ones belief is hard but socially better!
Such a coalition as SRS-DSS-NS-SPS-PUPS-JS will have a hard task ahead and hurdles will be set by those 'I, I, I' and 'you must do as we say' US and EUcrats but none of which are not insurmountable. The election has passed and now is the time to form the government that can take Serbia as a WHOLE forward not just locally in the 'western Balkans' as the EU elites dictate but globally !
SPS-PUPS-JS should take note of what Tadic/Canaks European 'friend' Rupel in his double talk states for the "equal" partner of Serbia with regards its soverignty;
"“The EU expects the new government to engage constructively in regional cooperation,” the statement concludes. "
- we all understand what Rupel means by "regional cooperation" since there is no confirmation of mutual respect and insistance that UN recognised soverignity is upheld as re-affirmed by UN SC approved resolution 1244. Slovenia has acted illegally and DS and Co. is happy to be part of this deceit.
There willl be some soul searching - should SPS be party (vassaldom) to so called "friend" (dictat) or is it more noble to stay true to ones principles of a socially inclusive society?
More over SPS-PUPS-JS contrast with Rupels words on another nation not even in Europe but on the periphery of Europe's geographic boundaries;
"Slovenian Foreign Minister Dmitrij Rupel said the EU was reiterating its backing for Georgia's sovereignty..."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7396803.stm
Again ET TU EU one day hence from an election !!!
Lets hope that SPS-PUPS-JS see this deceit fully and they fully appreciate that the likes of Rupel, Rehn, Solana et al have no regard or mutual respect for Serbia beyond their own interest let alone the ordinary people of Serbia and that is in the totally opposite direction of what this government forming list coalition represent!
They (self interested EU elites) have done their dirty business and are satisfied that their deception has worked not in the interest the of Serbia and Serbian peoples nor for that matter for the peoples of the EU but that of their own self inflating, self congratulating, self rewarding indivual gain !!!
But have they counted their chickens too early?
That Tadic and co can not see this or choose to ignore the reality that each Serb is just a very small pawn (as is Serbia as a whole) that can be tossed aside in some imperialistic hegemonic game being palyed by the US/EU'some' western elites in a weird (self created) game of dominance against any who have a different perspective or viewpoint against the elites own self /individual I, I, I, self- serving society says volumes.
Yes Serbia may not gain or delevop as rapidly as it would given it follows its own path which would be made harder and difficult by 'some' (but not all) in the EU but in this way all will be better off rather then a few who will have gained in a spectacular way while others lose out!
I think the Socialists comprehend the choice they must make and holding true to ones belief is hard but socially better!
Such a coalition as SRS-DSS-NS-SPS-PUPS-JS will have a hard task ahead and hurdles will be set by those 'I, I, I' and 'you must do as we say' US and EUcrats but none of which are not insurmountable. The election has passed and now is the time to form the government that can take Serbia as a WHOLE forward not just locally in the 'western Balkans' as the EU elites dictate but globally !
The SPS teaming up with the DSS was always the plan and the DSS had a very similar policy to the SRS but chose to stay separate to maximise votes. That worked well as they achieved 108 seats compared to the DS/EU coalition of 102.
So with the SPS in the picture, the SRS/DSS/SPS can form a government with 128 seats plus the possibility of the Bosniaks joining making 130. Now this would be a respectable government with similar policies and one directed at preserving Serbia's integrity.
So what is the alternative? The SPS forming a government with the DS coalition and what? The Albanians, Hungarians or LDP? None of which care for Kosovo's integrity so that is highly unlikely. Also, since signing the SAA, the DS have excluded themselves from any formation with the DSS and that really only makes one possibility - an SRS/DSS/SPS government! Kosovo will be protected and Serbia can only join the EU with Kosovo.
This talk about a DS victory is really only half baked. The SRS achieved a higher precentage in the previous two elections and also went into opposition.
I do expect the next government to be formed very quickly as there is some very important work to do. The next PM will be Koštunica in all likelihood. I will be glad when this happens and all of the deceit coming from the EU/US stops.
Congratulations to the citizens of Serbia for making this possible.
bganon, it sounds to me like the roots of this grapevine lead to the EU/US. I don't understand why anyone would risk losing out of a government that is pretty much a done deal. Only some minor details need to be worked out.
rolerkoster, I have no idea what you are doing on this planet considering the overwhelming world majority support Serbia's integrity. How can you breath the same air as us?
to the fella with the grapevine
your grapevine is public secret for more than three days and really mere speculation and psychological warfare so to speak. clutching at straws even.
tadic will team up with arkan's best man palma, and ceda will support this from the back benches is it. might one inquire, what monstrous nature would such a coalition have? what external force and for what reason would drive people to stoop so low? and what kind of glue would keep it together, and what kind of benefit could serbia possibly have from it?
by the by, external forces will decide this. we'll just see who has more irons in the fire in serbia.
your palma for fm, ilic for pm sounds pretty desperate to me.
the only truth here is that what happens next is anybody's guess and that ds claim that they must have government because they got the most votes is preposterous propaganda. radicals won the most votes twice in the past four or so years so what. either you come up with 126 mps to vote your government in or you shut up.
"Serbian citizens have said at the elections that they want to be part of the EU and any government that fulfills those hopes, will be acceptable"
Acceptable?? The arrogance of this man is breathtaking. I assume a DSS/SRS/SPS coalition would not be "acceptable" to Mr Solana. Well Javier, if that's the way it turns out you're going to have to accept it whether you like it or not. Or will you send in the bombers again?
Not one word of what you copy & pasted where your own but rather CNN/BBC/War street journal/Pentagon etc.
Im sure most of us can look it up or consult Natasha Kandic without your help if we want to get our fix for the day, i´ts all there,"serbs" "brutal" "Milosevic" "Genocide" "10000000+killed" "ultra nationalists" whatever.
Please dont be shy, share some thoughts of your own Enzo, if you know anything about fact & figure. I´m listening.
He said the DSS-NS coalition has promoted four principles: Kosovo within Serbia, fight against corruption, economic development, and as a modified principle – European integrations, but not unconditionally, in other words, only with Kosovo as a part of Serbia.
He added cooperation with the Hague Tribunal must be viewed as an obligation for the state, not a government program principle.
--
All of these principles seem to align well with the major parties - being SRS/DSS-NS/SPS so the glue will be that much stronger.
I cannot see any other alternative apart from a force marriage which is doomed to failure.
The SPS, which holds the key, will ask that Kosovo is preserved within Serbia and that would be a condition to join the EU, however, they seek a European path. Also that Hague co-operation will be voluntary.
Lets hope the new government is formed within the next week or two. Samo napred Srbija!
if there should really be another armed conflict, my dear friends...it´s crystal-clear, that the losers would be the kla-bandits with their drug-and-prostitution circles...
dear Anglo-Serbs! why are you still living in a state which recognised the UDI of Kosovo? why don't you finish your private colaboration with this state by paying taxes there - which gonna finance the EULEX mission? as long as you are personifications of double standards, no one can credit your polemics. get real, dear Anglo-Serbs!
Your comment made about Russia supporting an DS lead government is simply propaganda. This statement was simply made to show that Russia wants a pro-eu government but in reality they know what is coming and are more than happy to work with the Radicals and obviously their boy, Mr. Kostunica. Why would they want to start all over again and work with DS when they very well know that if they form the new government, the doors will be shut on russia and srbija will only look west which is the last thing russia wants to see. That is why they want a Radical lead government with Kostunica as its face which is why we hear all these rumors about the radicals giving the PM spot to him. Isnt it obvious that Mr. Nikolic and Mr. Kostunica both met with Russian officials before the presidential elections a few months ago. You put one and one together and it all makes sense. Therefore, we will not have a Tadic lead government but a SERBIAN lead one with SRS/DSS/SPS!
Tadic's acting as a football fan when his team scores, without waiting for the final result of the match. If the degree of euphoria was the deciding factor in this election, Boris sure would be the uncontested champ.
As things shape up, his exaltation may have a short expiration date.
An immature behaviour of the head of a state, can hardly give a decent image to the country.
Nikolic's nationalist party is expected to join forces with outgoing prime minister Vojislav Kostunica's Democratic Party with 30 seats, which will leave both pro-Western Tadic and Nikolic chasing coalitions with the Socialists and Liberals to try and get the necessary 126 seats needed for a parliamentary majority.-
Maybe these two along with the Socialists make that bloc of REAL SERB PATRIOTS whose aim is not EU above all but all Serbia before any EU/CIA/NATO etc.
The 'key' is national awakening and political emancipation...
I must say your grapevine is certainly offering up some humorous anecdotes to the current situation. Shame there is little substance and factual basis to the gossip. In fact, it seems to read more like wishful thinking on the part of a lamenting DS activist.
DS overtures to SPS are well-known. However, your stories of peeling away the SPS Palma tree, or the NS seljak is no different from the gossip about peeling 17 Gs from a "European Serbia" and creating a SRS/DSS/G17 (132 seats) coalition. Strange you didn't mention that last option. Too embarrasing to contemplate perhaps?
In conclusion, it seems your grapes have withered on the vine and you've resorted to drinking last years not-so-vintage beaujolais nouveau. Hic!
Enzo (#9)
is arguing against himself when he says that Serbs haven't changed since Milosevic. They are guilty of everything he claims, as alleged, etc.etc.etc
What Enzo doesn't seem to understand is that there are so many Serbs who do not give hoot about all that, and what is more, it is they who are going to form the new Government of Serbia.
You are trying in vain to play on some guilt complex which some toadies like Natasa Kandic have been peddling for a while now.
What did,indeed, change is that the Serbs had decided to have a Government which is going to meet the aspiration of the Serbian People.
Just too bad what anybody else thinks about it.
Clear enough?
Evidently the only thing you are interested in Serbia is Russia. Now that the masks are off we can see it's a common Western approach to root out from the cold war. Yet you can do nothing about it. You can calm yourself down with the fake speculations about Russia's prospects and Serbia's prospects with Russia.
The things run quite good and very soon you'll be witnessing Russia's turn to the East. Like the Serbs we have beenknoking on the closed EU door to long. Now we shall see which side needs the other's cooperation more urgent. Next year we shall gain back Nr.1 Euro economy title with only 34% of the GNP to be formed with energy resorses.
Most evident is that pro-Russian parties will form the cabinet and we'll have a chance to prove that the Serbs may quite prosper without EU free cheese in the trap. Tell them the truth that Berlusconi's new allies will never let them enter EU ! Be honest at least this on time !
'Eagle' Wrote:
"Way to go Serbia, you are never going to learn. Good luck with your radical government. Bye bye Europe for another 100 years."
Goodbye Europe for another 100 years? I'm still boggled by such comments, and Tadic's campaign slogan "For a European Serbia"... Since when does Serbia not lie within the confines of the European continent? Does being part of the European Union, a bully organization, that countries within Europe have no guaranteed benefits from (other than the powerful and wealthy), define being part of the European continent? I think not. Serbia has been part of Europe since the constituent countries of the continent have been defined and drawn on World Maps, and will remain this way. Give me a break.
I praise and have gained a greater amount of respect for the Serbian government and people, who have not given into the demands of the big bully of Europe - the EU. Why on earth would a sovereign country give into demands of a bully organization? It would simply make them a puppet, just like every other small(er) and less powerful country in Europe.
Of course, radicals, DSS, SPS should form a government and tell to Solana and others who are the winners! They can pretend how ever they want, but polls can be checked and double checked. It seems somebody have problems in maths...
OK I'm going to be open on what I've heard through the grapevine.
DS have decided to target SPS as coalition partners. Their joker in the pack is Dragan Markovic (trojan horse is more accurate) so if SPS does not play ball Dragan Makovic will peel away his mandates and add them to DS, the minorities will also join DS. There is a possibility in this scenario of LDP giving support from the backbenches.
The alternative is SPS supporting DS as a whole, which Dacic will consider. However, LDP will not support such a government in any form. This means that SPS will have power beyond its numbers and to some extent will be DSS' trojan horse in the government. They would gain a ministry or two and places on management boards of public companies (the railways, perhaps lucrative road building project companies etc).
The alternative less likely but still an option is that New Serbia will betray DSS, peel away their mandates and join DS. In this scenario Ilic is demanding the post of Prime Minister (DS knew this before and it was one reason why the PM job has been left vacant). Ilic will probably back down from this demand but will drive a very hard bargain. For himself he would demand a superministry, perhaps including NIP which would put vast money at his disposal.
From a DS perspective this option is better that with SPS, but not as good as Markovic defecting.
Another option is an LDP, DS coalition supported by SPS from the backbenches. However, DS is not keen because LDP will make many demands and would not be happy for SPS support. On the other hand such a government would be less stable because of the us and them thing going on between 'traitors' and 'patriots'. SPS could bring the government down at any moment and they probably would.
The last option is DSS joining DS. Not really likely at all since DSS would want the PM spot for Kostunica as a price to back down on European issues. There is an outside chance that DSS could support a minority government but again DS does not want this as DSS are notorious back seat drivers.
Princip, UK: Yore right Serbia is being yoused as a pawn another piece of the puzzle for Brussels. Turkey will be next with all of its problems will be let in to the EU and overlooked. They are heading for the oil and to finish off Israel they will be the Arabs good friends for a price both ways the end to the Jews they tried to wipe out in Europe truly a evil alliance will be coming up wo to any one standing in the way like Serbia.
Whomever makes or has made the arguement that Serbia has moved on from it's recent history led by the brutal Slobodan Milosevic, please note that even a decade after his fall, his party is still playing a crucial role in the future of Serbia! In other words, a whole decade has past, and Serbia is still consumed by the same nationalistic, hate-mongoring, regressive ideas it had when it was recognized as the source of trouble for the Ballkans. So you tell me, how much has really changed? As the saying goes "You can take a Leopard out of it's environment, but a Leopard never changes his spots". Look around you and you will see that the world has changed radically: 1)For the first time in recent World history either a black man or a woman will lead the superpower of the world 2) For the first time in Switzerland's neutral political history, it decided to pick sides and chose to recognize Kosovo, over remaining neutral on the issue!!! They maintained neutralitiy even during the Yugoslavia's disintegration, and WWII. Yet, they were compelled to support Kosovar's on the issue of independence. 3) France, who has historically been a Russian-leaning ally in Western Europe, decided to be the leader in the promotion of Kosovo independence. 4) Even China, with it's own Tibetian problem, has not made any major noise or objections over this issue. Yes they disagree with the west, but they have not been as vocal about it as the Russians. Now let's go back to Serbia, and your brethren Russian's. Ten year's past, nothing gained! Still the same people, with the same ancient ideas, and no progression. This is truly pathetic. Surely someone will mention how Russia's influence with it's oil money has returned it to super-power status. Wrong. They have returned to a dictatorship, and the oil fortunes will surely run out soon or the world will find alternative sources as this model is unsustainable any way, and Russia will return to what it was in a past...A Shell. Plus, you can not have 2 superpowers in the same hemisphere! China is determined and better positioned to outplay Russia for the superpower role in Asia. Even India is better positioned.
The idea of splitting G17 from "European Serbia" is no less far fetched than the two possibilities your promulgate. I have heard all three in the past 4 days. Two of them, your two, have been denied by Palma and Ilic themselves - see today's Kurir. My one, has yet to be renounced by Dinkic. But there again, is Kurir reliable?
I am no SRS junkie. As an expat, all this idle gossip is just that, idle gossip. It makes little difference to me who goes into coalition with whom. I see adbantages and disadvantages with each combination.
But here's one other piece of (idle) gossip that you clearly have not heard or chose to ignore. About 1/3rd of the DS parlimentary party is at odds with the other 2/3rds regarding the stance over Kosovo. Tadic, in the 2/3rds camp, has been warned that any 'selling' of Kosovo in exchange for fastrack into the EU will result in a split of the party. His recent 'hardline' stance re the Kosovo issue has not been for the electorate but to maintain unity of his own party!
Eagle (#24)
"Bye,Bye Europe for another 100 years", you say?
Why,Good Riddens to Bad Rubbish and let's hope it is forever. We don't need the new edition of of the Austro-Hungarian empire a.k.a the EU.
As from now on we'll associate with the peoples who respect us.
No more toadying to anybody, we were not born to live on our knees.
The EU is not a friend of Serbia!! The people here who think voting Radical will hurt Serbia and are against the Serbian peoples best interest should read outside the western media and are obviously ignorant on this subject!
The West has stopped at nothing to destroy Serbia, it has fabricated and blamed you for ever crime possible to achieve its objectives and now it has taken Kosovo.
The EU will promise you everything to have Tadic elected so Kosovo will be lost!
By the way there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism, no over country would stand by and watch as their country being robbed from them!!
Mr Happy go lucky you are confusing me with Dragan Palma. Why pose the question to me as to what Palma can gain from joining the government? Surely you can work it out for yourself. If you wait a few days you might get the opportunity to see for yourself if / when he states his reasons. Of course I can't rule out you blaming me somehow for his decisions, that is at least the tone of your post. If another so called patriot decides to betray his country as you might see it, you might want to ask yourself what is wrong with (self) professed patriots, rather than blaming the outside world. Is their patriotism outweighed by lined pockets? If so were they ever patriots in the first place? And how many 'patriots' scream about their love of Serbia (for your vote) only to ditch their patriotism for a price? To be clear the outside world will be a factor but the real deals will go on between the parties, who gets what and for how much. Thats realistic.
Willie winkle I don't know where you get your theories from concerning G17 joining SRS / DSS. Frankly I can't take it seriously. And I think that something stronger than alcohol must be involved for you to entertain such ideas.
Still, do let us know where you read this, sounds fascinating.
I'm awfully fond of the ever so emotional supporters of the SRS variety. But I don't do blind faith.
As unlikely as it sounds, maybe SPS does have a reason to join up with DS.
Right now, the Western Media is portraying them as having “left behind” the Milosevic era and becoming merely a left orientated party. Strange as it would be, sounds like the West is ready to accept SPS back into their loving arms as long as they play ball.
However, I think it’s unlikely.
The most probable outcome is they will court DS to get a better deal with SRS. Kostunica will take a back seat this time around and SPS will be leading the nation once again and the West will cry out against a return to Milosevism….
Anyways, to the vultures running around calling everyone who doesn’t agree with them traitors.
Only Unity Saves the Serbs.
We turn on ourselves and we lose everything.
A debate on the merits or dangers of moving towards the EU is healthy. Name calling only hurts our Country and our people and our noble cause.
I’m ashamed of the behavior of nearly all the politicians and the mindless stupid things they did up to the election. I’m seeing that filtering down to the comments section way too much right now.
Now it is time to focus and support the future government. Let us try putting some pressure on the EU on the Kosovo issue, but let’s not be stupid about it. If we are smart about it, no doors will be closed, and a few might actually be opened. Moving towards Russia a bit will get us a much better deal with the EU in the future. The EU can not allow Russia to regain a sphere of influence in their stated domain. They may be willing to pay a high price to keep that from happening. Russia might also be willing to match that price. Let us find out.
What I don't understand is that even Russia wants DS to form the next government, then how are the Serbian people against that?
They don't want Europe and they don't want to be isolated. However, Russia is asking them to focus on EU and for for Tadic to form the government.
So all this talk that the DS are Solana boys is pure propaganda, they are supported by Russia as well.
Speaking honestly I believe the SRS and DSS will drive Serbia into a pit where it will be very tough to get out once in. I see a civil war happening if that is the government that is formed.
The DSS and SRS say that they want EU with Kosova as part of their territory, which they know will never happen! The major European countries recognized Kosova and they wont take that back.
So how in the world will Serbia ever enter EU with DSS and SRS in government?
The answer to that is that Serbia doesn't want EU membership. However, Russia is demanding that from Serbia. We can live on our own, which is of course possible, but the standard of living will suffer greatly because of isolation - but that probably does not matter to Serbian nationalists as long as they live on the dream that Kosova is theirs!!! So they do all this just by keeping a dream alive!!!
My recommendation is that Serbian people need to take Kosova out of their equation and focus on prosperity of Serbia without Kosova !!! Even Russian newspapers are saying this:
http://www.kommersant.com/p890979/r_527/Analysis_of_the_outcome_of_elections_in_Serbia_May_11/
Willie I think we both know that Kurir isn't reliable and that the G17 story is part of Rodic's way to get back at Dinkic for sending the tax inspectors in a few days ago.
If you are a close observer of the Serbian political scene you must know that the story hasn't the slightest truth to it. You must equally know that Palma has given us a clue on the SAA already.
I'm not saying it will happen but my source is not from Kurir rather 2 separate ones from 2 different political parties. The Ilic story I heard over a month ago and from a v good source close to New Serbia. I would reveal it but it could get B92 into trouble.
Willie I think you are half right on the DS position of Kosovo. The issue is not whether to sell Kosovo. The issue is the approach to be taken. In DS there are different streams of thought, most believe that Kosovo should be split, but a minority think Kosovo is lost
Serbia has been around for centuries. I highly doubt America will be around for that long. America can learn a thing or two from Serbia about survival. Americans have no right coming on this board and lecturing Serbia when America cannot even prevent millions of illegal immigrants from entering their country. Many EU countries, for that matter, have the same problem. Why? Because politicians are too scared to be labeled racist. How about that for "western-style" government.
rolerkoster, I have no idea what you are doing on this planet considering the overwhelming world majority support Serbia's integrity. How can you breath the same air as us? (ZK UK, 13 May 2008 14:15)
I am really glad that I don't need to breathe the same air like yours. there's enough air free of the odour caused by animosity against other ethnic groups - and politics based on such an animosity.
the overwhelming majority you are talking about, how long will it exist? you are talking about a rather short period of three months in a struggle, which started three decades ago. from a realistic point of view it the most successful period on the way of Kosovo towards self-determination. a Serbian DS/SRS/SPS government would ring the bell for the next successful period in this historical process.
"My recommendation is that Serbian people need to take Kosova out of their equation and focus on prosperity of Serbia without Kosova !!! Even Russian newspapers are saying this:
[link]/
Peace.
(Mr. X, 13 May 2008 16:40)"
Mr X,
you really should read your links more carefully. The article was written by someone from the Serbian news agency Beta -- probably a LDP or Tadic supporter. Not the Russians.
I don`t think that the biggest problem is who will form the next government. The biggest problem is that serbs are a divided nation. Not only politically, but also geographical. You have a "european" majority in the north and a "nationalist" majority in central Serbia. Of course, Serbia will not fall apart as a country, but the differences will increase.
Whomever makes or has made the arguement that Serbia has moved on from it's recent history led by the brutal Slobodan Milosevic, please note that even a decade after his fall, his party is still playing a crucial role in the future of Serbia! In other words, a whole decade has past, and Serbia is still consumed by the same nationalistic, hate-mongoring, regressive ideas it had when it was recognized as the source of trouble for the Ballkans. So you tell me, how much has really changed? As the saying goes "You can take a Leopard out of it's environment, but a Leopard never changes his spots". Look around you and you will see that the world has changed radically: 1)For the first time in recent World history either a black man or a woman will lead the superpower of the world 2) For the first time in Switzerland's neutral political history, it decided to pick sides and chose to recognize Kosovo, over remaining neutral on the issue!!! They maintained neutralitiy even during the Yugoslavia's disintegration, and WWII. Yet, they were compelled to support Kosovar's on the issue of independence. 3) France, who has historically been a Russian-leaning ally in Western Europe, decided to be the leader in the promotion of Kosovo independence. 4) Even China, with it's own Tibetian problem, has not made any major noise or objections over this issue. Yes they disagree with the west, but they have not been as vocal about it as the Russians. Now let's go back to Serbia, and your brethren Russian's. Ten year's past, nothing gained! Still the same people, with the same ancient ideas, and no progression. This is truly pathetic. Surely someone will mention how Russia's influence with it's oil money has returned it to super-power status. Wrong. They have returned to a dictatorship, and the oil fortunes will surely run out soon or the world will find alternative sources as this model is unsustainable any way, and Russia will return to what it was in a past...A Shell. Plus, you can not have 2 superpowers in the same hemisphere! China is determined and better positioned to outplay Russia for the superpower role in Asia. Even India is better positioned.
dear Anglo-Serbs! why are you still living in a state which recognised the UDI of Kosovo? why don't you finish your private colaboration with this state by paying taxes there - which gonna finance the EULEX mission? as long as you are personifications of double standards, no one can credit your polemics. get real, dear Anglo-Serbs!
rolerkoster, I have no idea what you are doing on this planet considering the overwhelming world majority support Serbia's integrity. How can you breath the same air as us? (ZK UK, 13 May 2008 14:15)
I am really glad that I don't need to breathe the same air like yours. there's enough air free of the odour caused by animosity against other ethnic groups - and politics based on such an animosity.
the overwhelming majority you are talking about, how long will it exist? you are talking about a rather short period of three months in a struggle, which started three decades ago. from a realistic point of view it the most successful period on the way of Kosovo towards self-determination. a Serbian DS/SRS/SPS government would ring the bell for the next successful period in this historical process.
OK I'm going to be open on what I've heard through the grapevine.
DS have decided to target SPS as coalition partners. Their joker in the pack is Dragan Markovic (trojan horse is more accurate) so if SPS does not play ball Dragan Makovic will peel away his mandates and add them to DS, the minorities will also join DS. There is a possibility in this scenario of LDP giving support from the backbenches.
The alternative is SPS supporting DS as a whole, which Dacic will consider. However, LDP will not support such a government in any form. This means that SPS will have power beyond its numbers and to some extent will be DSS' trojan horse in the government. They would gain a ministry or two and places on management boards of public companies (the railways, perhaps lucrative road building project companies etc).
The alternative less likely but still an option is that New Serbia will betray DSS, peel away their mandates and join DS. In this scenario Ilic is demanding the post of Prime Minister (DS knew this before and it was one reason why the PM job has been left vacant). Ilic will probably back down from this demand but will drive a very hard bargain. For himself he would demand a superministry, perhaps including NIP which would put vast money at his disposal.
From a DS perspective this option is better that with SPS, but not as good as Markovic defecting.
Another option is an LDP, DS coalition supported by SPS from the backbenches. However, DS is not keen because LDP will make many demands and would not be happy for SPS support. On the other hand such a government would be less stable because of the us and them thing going on between 'traitors' and 'patriots'. SPS could bring the government down at any moment and they probably would.
The last option is DSS joining DS. Not really likely at all since DSS would want the PM spot for Kostunica as a price to back down on European issues. There is an outside chance that DSS could support a minority government but again DS does not want this as DSS are notorious back seat drivers.
What I don't understand is that even Russia wants DS to form the next government, then how are the Serbian people against that?
They don't want Europe and they don't want to be isolated. However, Russia is asking them to focus on EU and for for Tadic to form the government.
So all this talk that the DS are Solana boys is pure propaganda, they are supported by Russia as well.
Speaking honestly I believe the SRS and DSS will drive Serbia into a pit where it will be very tough to get out once in. I see a civil war happening if that is the government that is formed.
The DSS and SRS say that they want EU with Kosova as part of their territory, which they know will never happen! The major European countries recognized Kosova and they wont take that back.
So how in the world will Serbia ever enter EU with DSS and SRS in government?
The answer to that is that Serbia doesn't want EU membership. However, Russia is demanding that from Serbia. We can live on our own, which is of course possible, but the standard of living will suffer greatly because of isolation - but that probably does not matter to Serbian nationalists as long as they live on the dream that Kosova is theirs!!! So they do all this just by keeping a dream alive!!!
My recommendation is that Serbian people need to take Kosova out of their equation and focus on prosperity of Serbia without Kosova !!! Even Russian newspapers are saying this:
http://www.kommersant.com/p890979/r_527/Analysis_of_the_outcome_of_elections_in_Serbia_May_11/
Mr Happy go lucky you are confusing me with Dragan Palma. Why pose the question to me as to what Palma can gain from joining the government? Surely you can work it out for yourself. If you wait a few days you might get the opportunity to see for yourself if / when he states his reasons. Of course I can't rule out you blaming me somehow for his decisions, that is at least the tone of your post. If another so called patriot decides to betray his country as you might see it, you might want to ask yourself what is wrong with (self) professed patriots, rather than blaming the outside world. Is their patriotism outweighed by lined pockets? If so were they ever patriots in the first place? And how many 'patriots' scream about their love of Serbia (for your vote) only to ditch their patriotism for a price? To be clear the outside world will be a factor but the real deals will go on between the parties, who gets what and for how much. Thats realistic.
Willie winkle I don't know where you get your theories from concerning G17 joining SRS / DSS. Frankly I can't take it seriously. And I think that something stronger than alcohol must be involved for you to entertain such ideas.
Still, do let us know where you read this, sounds fascinating.
I'm awfully fond of the ever so emotional supporters of the SRS variety. But I don't do blind faith.
Princip, UK: Yore right Serbia is being yoused as a pawn another piece of the puzzle for Brussels. Turkey will be next with all of its problems will be let in to the EU and overlooked. They are heading for the oil and to finish off Israel they will be the Arabs good friends for a price both ways the end to the Jews they tried to wipe out in Europe truly a evil alliance will be coming up wo to any one standing in the way like Serbia.
Willie I think we both know that Kurir isn't reliable and that the G17 story is part of Rodic's way to get back at Dinkic for sending the tax inspectors in a few days ago.
If you are a close observer of the Serbian political scene you must know that the story hasn't the slightest truth to it. You must equally know that Palma has given us a clue on the SAA already.
I'm not saying it will happen but my source is not from Kurir rather 2 separate ones from 2 different political parties. The Ilic story I heard over a month ago and from a v good source close to New Serbia. I would reveal it but it could get B92 into trouble.
Willie I think you are half right on the DS position of Kosovo. The issue is not whether to sell Kosovo. The issue is the approach to be taken. In DS there are different streams of thought, most believe that Kosovo should be split, but a minority think Kosovo is lost
I don`t think that the biggest problem is who will form the next government. The biggest problem is that serbs are a divided nation. Not only politically, but also geographical. You have a "european" majority in the north and a "nationalist" majority in central Serbia. Of course, Serbia will not fall apart as a country, but the differences will increase.
Not one word of what you copy & pasted where your own but rather CNN/BBC/War street journal/Pentagon etc.
Im sure most of us can look it up or consult Natasha Kandic without your help if we want to get our fix for the day, i´ts all there,"serbs" "brutal" "Milosevic" "Genocide" "10000000+killed" "ultra nationalists" whatever.
Please dont be shy, share some thoughts of your own Enzo, if you know anything about fact & figure. I´m listening.
SPS-PUPS-JS should take note of what Tadic/Canaks European 'friend' Rupel in his double talk states for the "equal" partner of Serbia with regards its soverignty;
"“The EU expects the new government to engage constructively in regional cooperation,” the statement concludes. "
- we all understand what Rupel means by "regional cooperation" since there is no confirmation of mutual respect and insistance that UN recognised soverignity is upheld as re-affirmed by UN SC approved resolution 1244. Slovenia has acted illegally and DS and Co. is happy to be part of this deceit.
There willl be some soul searching - should SPS be party (vassaldom) to so called "friend" (dictat) or is it more noble to stay true to ones principles of a socially inclusive society?
More over SPS-PUPS-JS contrast with Rupels words on another nation not even in Europe but on the periphery of Europe's geographic boundaries;
"Slovenian Foreign Minister Dmitrij Rupel said the EU was reiterating its backing for Georgia's sovereignty..."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7396803.stm
Again ET TU EU one day hence from an election !!!
Lets hope that SPS-PUPS-JS see this deceit fully and they fully appreciate that the likes of Rupel, Rehn, Solana et al have no regard or mutual respect for Serbia beyond their own interest let alone the ordinary people of Serbia and that is in the totally opposite direction of what this government forming list coalition represent!
They (self interested EU elites) have done their dirty business and are satisfied that their deception has worked not in the interest the of Serbia and Serbian peoples nor for that matter for the peoples of the EU but that of their own self inflating, self congratulating, self rewarding indivual gain !!!
But have they counted their chickens too early?
That Tadic and co can not see this or choose to ignore the reality that each Serb is just a very small pawn (as is Serbia as a whole) that can be tossed aside in some imperialistic hegemonic game being palyed by the US/EU'some' western elites in a weird (self created) game of dominance against any who have a different perspective or viewpoint against the elites own self /individual I, I, I, self- serving society says volumes.
Yes Serbia may not gain or delevop as rapidly as it would given it follows its own path which would be made harder and difficult by 'some' (but not all) in the EU but in this way all will be better off rather then a few who will have gained in a spectacular way while others lose out!
I think the Socialists comprehend the choice they must make and holding true to ones belief is hard but socially better!
Such a coalition as SRS-DSS-NS-SPS-PUPS-JS will have a hard task ahead and hurdles will be set by those 'I, I, I' and 'you must do as we say' US and EUcrats but none of which are not insurmountable. The election has passed and now is the time to form the government that can take Serbia as a WHOLE forward not just locally in the 'western Balkans' as the EU elites dictate but globally !
The SPS teaming up with the DSS was always the plan and the DSS had a very similar policy to the SRS but chose to stay separate to maximise votes. That worked well as they achieved 108 seats compared to the DS/EU coalition of 102.
So with the SPS in the picture, the SRS/DSS/SPS can form a government with 128 seats plus the possibility of the Bosniaks joining making 130. Now this would be a respectable government with similar policies and one directed at preserving Serbia's integrity.
So what is the alternative? The SPS forming a government with the DS coalition and what? The Albanians, Hungarians or LDP? None of which care for Kosovo's integrity so that is highly unlikely. Also, since signing the SAA, the DS have excluded themselves from any formation with the DSS and that really only makes one possibility - an SRS/DSS/SPS government! Kosovo will be protected and Serbia can only join the EU with Kosovo.
This talk about a DS victory is really only half baked. The SRS achieved a higher precentage in the previous two elections and also went into opposition.
I do expect the next government to be formed very quickly as there is some very important work to do. The next PM will be Koštunica in all likelihood. I will be glad when this happens and all of the deceit coming from the EU/US stops.
Congratulations to the citizens of Serbia for making this possible.
bganon, it sounds to me like the roots of this grapevine lead to the EU/US. I don't understand why anyone would risk losing out of a government that is pretty much a done deal. Only some minor details need to be worked out.
rolerkoster, I have no idea what you are doing on this planet considering the overwhelming world majority support Serbia's integrity. How can you breath the same air as us?
to the fella with the grapevine
your grapevine is public secret for more than three days and really mere speculation and psychological warfare so to speak. clutching at straws even.
tadic will team up with arkan's best man palma, and ceda will support this from the back benches is it. might one inquire, what monstrous nature would such a coalition have? what external force and for what reason would drive people to stoop so low? and what kind of glue would keep it together, and what kind of benefit could serbia possibly have from it?
by the by, external forces will decide this. we'll just see who has more irons in the fire in serbia.
your palma for fm, ilic for pm sounds pretty desperate to me.
the only truth here is that what happens next is anybody's guess and that ds claim that they must have government because they got the most votes is preposterous propaganda. radicals won the most votes twice in the past four or so years so what. either you come up with 126 mps to vote your government in or you shut up.
He said the DSS-NS coalition has promoted four principles: Kosovo within Serbia, fight against corruption, economic development, and as a modified principle – European integrations, but not unconditionally, in other words, only with Kosovo as a part of Serbia.
He added cooperation with the Hague Tribunal must be viewed as an obligation for the state, not a government program principle.
--
All of these principles seem to align well with the major parties - being SRS/DSS-NS/SPS so the glue will be that much stronger.
I cannot see any other alternative apart from a force marriage which is doomed to failure.
The SPS, which holds the key, will ask that Kosovo is preserved within Serbia and that would be a condition to join the EU, however, they seek a European path. Also that Hague co-operation will be voluntary.
Lets hope the new government is formed within the next week or two. Samo napred Srbija!
I must say your grapevine is certainly offering up some humorous anecdotes to the current situation. Shame there is little substance and factual basis to the gossip. In fact, it seems to read more like wishful thinking on the part of a lamenting DS activist.
DS overtures to SPS are well-known. However, your stories of peeling away the SPS Palma tree, or the NS seljak is no different from the gossip about peeling 17 Gs from a "European Serbia" and creating a SRS/DSS/G17 (132 seats) coalition. Strange you didn't mention that last option. Too embarrasing to contemplate perhaps?
In conclusion, it seems your grapes have withered on the vine and you've resorted to drinking last years not-so-vintage beaujolais nouveau. Hic!
Tadic's acting as a football fan when his team scores, without waiting for the final result of the match. If the degree of euphoria was the deciding factor in this election, Boris sure would be the uncontested champ.
As things shape up, his exaltation may have a short expiration date.
An immature behaviour of the head of a state, can hardly give a decent image to the country.
"Serbian citizens have said at the elections that they want to be part of the EU and any government that fulfills those hopes, will be acceptable"
Acceptable?? The arrogance of this man is breathtaking. I assume a DSS/SRS/SPS coalition would not be "acceptable" to Mr Solana. Well Javier, if that's the way it turns out you're going to have to accept it whether you like it or not. Or will you send in the bombers again?
Of course, radicals, DSS, SPS should form a government and tell to Solana and others who are the winners! They can pretend how ever they want, but polls can be checked and double checked. It seems somebody have problems in maths...
Your comment made about Russia supporting an DS lead government is simply propaganda. This statement was simply made to show that Russia wants a pro-eu government but in reality they know what is coming and are more than happy to work with the Radicals and obviously their boy, Mr. Kostunica. Why would they want to start all over again and work with DS when they very well know that if they form the new government, the doors will be shut on russia and srbija will only look west which is the last thing russia wants to see. That is why they want a Radical lead government with Kostunica as its face which is why we hear all these rumors about the radicals giving the PM spot to him. Isnt it obvious that Mr. Nikolic and Mr. Kostunica both met with Russian officials before the presidential elections a few months ago. You put one and one together and it all makes sense. Therefore, we will not have a Tadic lead government but a SERBIAN lead one with SRS/DSS/SPS!
Enzo (#9)
is arguing against himself when he says that Serbs haven't changed since Milosevic. They are guilty of everything he claims, as alleged, etc.etc.etc
What Enzo doesn't seem to understand is that there are so many Serbs who do not give hoot about all that, and what is more, it is they who are going to form the new Government of Serbia.
You are trying in vain to play on some guilt complex which some toadies like Natasa Kandic have been peddling for a while now.
What did,indeed, change is that the Serbs had decided to have a Government which is going to meet the aspiration of the Serbian People.
Just too bad what anybody else thinks about it.
Clear enough?
Nikolic's nationalist party is expected to join forces with outgoing prime minister Vojislav Kostunica's Democratic Party with 30 seats, which will leave both pro-Western Tadic and Nikolic chasing coalitions with the Socialists and Liberals to try and get the necessary 126 seats needed for a parliamentary majority.-
Maybe these two along with the Socialists make that bloc of REAL SERB PATRIOTS whose aim is not EU above all but all Serbia before any EU/CIA/NATO etc.
The 'key' is national awakening and political emancipation...
if there should really be another armed conflict, my dear friends...it´s crystal-clear, that the losers would be the kla-bandits with their drug-and-prostitution circles...
The idea of splitting G17 from "European Serbia" is no less far fetched than the two possibilities your promulgate. I have heard all three in the past 4 days. Two of them, your two, have been denied by Palma and Ilic themselves - see today's Kurir. My one, has yet to be renounced by Dinkic. But there again, is Kurir reliable?
I am no SRS junkie. As an expat, all this idle gossip is just that, idle gossip. It makes little difference to me who goes into coalition with whom. I see adbantages and disadvantages with each combination.
But here's one other piece of (idle) gossip that you clearly have not heard or chose to ignore. About 1/3rd of the DS parlimentary party is at odds with the other 2/3rds regarding the stance over Kosovo. Tadic, in the 2/3rds camp, has been warned that any 'selling' of Kosovo in exchange for fastrack into the EU will result in a split of the party. His recent 'hardline' stance re the Kosovo issue has not been for the electorate but to maintain unity of his own party!
Eagle (#24)
"Bye,Bye Europe for another 100 years", you say?
Why,Good Riddens to Bad Rubbish and let's hope it is forever. We don't need the new edition of of the Austro-Hungarian empire a.k.a the EU.
As from now on we'll associate with the peoples who respect us.
No more toadying to anybody, we were not born to live on our knees.
Evidently the only thing you are interested in Serbia is Russia. Now that the masks are off we can see it's a common Western approach to root out from the cold war. Yet you can do nothing about it. You can calm yourself down with the fake speculations about Russia's prospects and Serbia's prospects with Russia.
The things run quite good and very soon you'll be witnessing Russia's turn to the East. Like the Serbs we have beenknoking on the closed EU door to long. Now we shall see which side needs the other's cooperation more urgent. Next year we shall gain back Nr.1 Euro economy title with only 34% of the GNP to be formed with energy resorses.
Most evident is that pro-Russian parties will form the cabinet and we'll have a chance to prove that the Serbs may quite prosper without EU free cheese in the trap. Tell them the truth that Berlusconi's new allies will never let them enter EU ! Be honest at least this on time !
'Eagle' Wrote:
"Way to go Serbia, you are never going to learn. Good luck with your radical government. Bye bye Europe for another 100 years."
Goodbye Europe for another 100 years? I'm still boggled by such comments, and Tadic's campaign slogan "For a European Serbia"... Since when does Serbia not lie within the confines of the European continent? Does being part of the European Union, a bully organization, that countries within Europe have no guaranteed benefits from (other than the powerful and wealthy), define being part of the European continent? I think not. Serbia has been part of Europe since the constituent countries of the continent have been defined and drawn on World Maps, and will remain this way. Give me a break.
I praise and have gained a greater amount of respect for the Serbian government and people, who have not given into the demands of the big bully of Europe - the EU. Why on earth would a sovereign country give into demands of a bully organization? It would simply make them a puppet, just like every other small(er) and less powerful country in Europe.
As unlikely as it sounds, maybe SPS does have a reason to join up with DS.
Right now, the Western Media is portraying them as having “left behind” the Milosevic era and becoming merely a left orientated party. Strange as it would be, sounds like the West is ready to accept SPS back into their loving arms as long as they play ball.
However, I think it’s unlikely.
The most probable outcome is they will court DS to get a better deal with SRS. Kostunica will take a back seat this time around and SPS will be leading the nation once again and the West will cry out against a return to Milosevism….
Anyways, to the vultures running around calling everyone who doesn’t agree with them traitors.
Only Unity Saves the Serbs.
We turn on ourselves and we lose everything.
A debate on the merits or dangers of moving towards the EU is healthy. Name calling only hurts our Country and our people and our noble cause.
I’m ashamed of the behavior of nearly all the politicians and the mindless stupid things they did up to the election. I’m seeing that filtering down to the comments section way too much right now.
Now it is time to focus and support the future government. Let us try putting some pressure on the EU on the Kosovo issue, but let’s not be stupid about it. If we are smart about it, no doors will be closed, and a few might actually be opened. Moving towards Russia a bit will get us a much better deal with the EU in the future. The EU can not allow Russia to regain a sphere of influence in their stated domain. They may be willing to pay a high price to keep that from happening. Russia might also be willing to match that price. Let us find out.
"My recommendation is that Serbian people need to take Kosova out of their equation and focus on prosperity of Serbia without Kosova !!! Even Russian newspapers are saying this:
[link]/
Peace.
(Mr. X, 13 May 2008 16:40)"
Mr X,
you really should read your links more carefully. The article was written by someone from the Serbian news agency Beta -- probably a LDP or Tadic supporter. Not the Russians.
Serbia has been around for centuries. I highly doubt America will be around for that long. America can learn a thing or two from Serbia about survival. Americans have no right coming on this board and lecturing Serbia when America cannot even prevent millions of illegal immigrants from entering their country. Many EU countries, for that matter, have the same problem. Why? Because politicians are too scared to be labeled racist. How about that for "western-style" government.
The EU is not a friend of Serbia!! The people here who think voting Radical will hurt Serbia and are against the Serbian peoples best interest should read outside the western media and are obviously ignorant on this subject!
The West has stopped at nothing to destroy Serbia, it has fabricated and blamed you for ever crime possible to achieve its objectives and now it has taken Kosovo.
The EU will promise you everything to have Tadic elected so Kosovo will be lost!
By the way there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism, no over country would stand by and watch as their country being robbed from them!!
IMAGE SOURCE
36 Komentari
Sortiraj po: