DS coalition wins in Vojvodina

“Illegal elections cannot have legal results. Their results will not be recognized,” Ruecker insisted.

That is ok, as long as illegal declarations of independence do not lead to a legal state.

Rada Trajkovic stated publicly that he voted for Tadiq and refused to vote for local elections, since they are illegal. Also, Bishop Artemije did not vote for local elction in Kosova. Now that tells you alot how valid these so called local elections were.

Mike, I respect all your coments but you tend to think the unthinkable all the time.

They may not be recognized, but I have every reason to believe they will be formed. Sooner or later, UNMIK and the EU will have to bite the proverbial bullet and accept the realities that Kosovo is headed for a dual-government system.

Mike

Kosova has already a Government representing all its communities. The sooner you realize it, much better will be your knowledge for the new state.

Accordingly with Ruecker's argumentation: Illegal declaration of independence can't have the legal results.

Pejoni,

There's NO new state !! Not even this "BRANKOVIC VICTORY" can change that !! Do NOT plan enything on long term , because WE ARE STILL AROUND - with no tendentions to leave you alone!

Ahmet,

Here are the realities on the ground, at least from what I see and understand:

K-Serbs have voted in elections they deem both legitimate and theirs. They have no reason to trust anything coming out of Pristina. At the same time, they're not working to actively subvert authority in Pristina. What's yours is yours. What's their's is theirs.

Now consider the following two outcomes: let's say Tadic's coalition forms a majority in Belgrade. They're going to have to accept the votes and the elected Serb officials in Kosovo. Doing otherwise will cause the Radicals to push for a vote of no confidence. Be that as it may, Tadic is more likely than Nikolic to cut a deal with the West over any outstanding issues in Kosovo. If the West accepts the Serb government in their sectors in exchange for Serbia Proper agreeing to work with the EU and move the entire country closer towards Brussels, we'll have some form of agreement overall.

Now consider the possibility of an SRS-DSS-SPS coalition. All bets for a negotiated solution with the West are off, and there will be extra effort put in to strengthening Serb parallel structures in Kosovo. Again, nothing short of an outright military intervention is going to topple them. So to make the matter simple: we have either negotiated solution under Tadic in exchange for separate Kosovo institutions within the EU framework, or political stalemate under Nikolic in which Serb institutions solidify into de facto organizations, making the region a frozen conflict.

Pejoni, you wrote me "Kosova has already a Government representing all its communities. The sooner you realize it, much better will be your knowledge for the new state."

Please, cut the "Kosova has a goverment". You know just as everyone else the Serbs don't give a fig for your "new state", and will never live under your institutions, just as you refused to live under theirs. No acts of charity will get them to cooperate, even if you agree to build the largest Serbian Orthodox Cathedral in the world right in the middle of Pristina University (I could think of better things to do but this is a good example).

However, you fail to realize that many Serbs south of the Ibar, have little choice but to work with their Albanian neighbors one way or another. But many choose to work with them from the confines of their own political institutions. I can't really see an Independent State of Novo Brdo or something like that, but I can easily foresee a scenario in which the Albanian government must work with a local Serbian government in terms of trade, mobility, and security (all of which are already codified in the AP). The north on the other hand is as good as lost and you might as well accept that.

The Serbs want nothing to do with your "new state" you speak so highly of, but are not actively seeking to interfere in your own day to day affairs of said "new state". You may refuse to see it, but Kosovo's future is more sustainable under a dual political system.

Besides, what is it to you if the Serbs take matters into their own hands? As I wrote to Ahmet, what's yours is yours. But what's theirs is theirs, and something tells me that whether or not a Serb government is set up in Mitrovica or Gracanica, your life will barely be affected by it. If you're that bent on living in the same state as Serbs, you shouldn't have seceded in the first place.

less than a half of K-Serbs casted their vote, that's around 50.000 people. what a big deal.

Ahmet,

On a side note, leaving all politics aside, your comment that I "tend to think the unthinkable all the time" is taken as a compliment. Such is the life of an academic trying to understand the region without all the nationalistic noise coming from all different angles; both Serbian, and, yes, Albanian too. :)

It pretty much explains why I'm frustrated most of the time, but it's all a labor of love. Consider me a pragmatist with Serbian leanings (which I'm sure you already do).

There is a problem here, as i see it. normally i try to ignore the nationalists' arguments (though with b-92 that is clearly impossible, since they dominate), and i despise the radicals who are a direct link with all of the war crimes of the past (on the serb side.) that is the truth, and anyone who refuses to acknowledge that is simply in denial! moreover, it seems that the K-serbs always vote heavily for the radicals.

on the other hand, serb diaspora around the world have the right to vote in these elections. so how can serbs in the US or serbs in the UK be allowed to participate, but serbs in kosova not be? that seems quite illogical not to mention unfair. they are citizens of serbia, even if living in kosova. we finally have independence (thank god!) but that doesn't automatically change the hearts and minds of K-serbs, especially with the years of non-stop propaganda coming from their religious and political leadership...

this doesn't mean that Serbia "has" the north, or anything else of kosova. that is just their wishful thinking.

but whether they actually care for "their" serbs in kosova or just use them as pawns to try to keep the land, we have to consider the people themselves, and find ways to compromise. that's another aspect of democracy...

Roberto from Frisco

A lot of those alleged war crimes which roberto (a self admitted Jew who meddles in Serbia's politics (with Otpor)) are false, exaggerated or have militants described as "civilians".

The true death counts have show that Muslim deaths were WAY exaggerated and that the majority in Bosnia, for example, were military, not civilian.

The Bosnian Muslims had the largest military, the largest infantry. They were witnessed by UN officials provoking and staging crimes all throughout the war. They were witnessed shooting at the UN and civilians in Sarajevo by foreign soldiers stationed there. They shot out of the former Parliamentary building, for example.

Roberto is brainwashed by the creators and manufacturers of propaganda in this war - those who get their funding from NATO countries and LIE, LIE, LIE.

So much has been said about the "Illegal Declaration of Kosovo's Independence"
Do any of you guys really understand anything about the Law??

There is no such thing as an illegal or legal declaration of independence; there are no international laws that forbid a region or a people from declaring independence. Anybody in any Country in the World can make a Declaration of Independence. There is nothing illegal about it!

Once Independence is declared it is then a task for the country within which this has happened to do something about it! And before such a country takes action on the declaration it assess the views and opinions of other countries, In this case the biggest part of the Western World has ratified the Declaration of Independence in Kosovo. What’s also more important is that when the countries that surround Serbia have also ratified this declaration of independence it then makes it very hard for Serbia to anything at all. Please also note that when a sovereign country recognizes a declaration of Independence and establishes diplomatic relations it is also confirming its support for that country. So given that the majority of the Western Countries have done this they in turn have pledged their full support and their willingness to defend this support. That’s what it amounts to, so please please stop using slogans and talking about something you know very little about.

The other issue that most of you guys refer to is that fact that the Declaration of Independence was Unilateral (or one sided) and then you argue that it’s not legal because of that, well it may comes as a surprise to you but that is usually how Independence is Declared, by one side. There has never been a case to date where both sides of the dispute have declared independence.

less than a half of K-Serbs casted their vote, that's around 50.000 people. what a big deal.

Rada Trajkovic stated publicly that he voted for Tadiq and refused to vote for local elections, since they are illegal. Also, Bishop Artemije did not vote for local elction in Kosova. Now that tells you alot how valid these so called local elections were.

Mike, I respect all your coments but you tend to think the unthinkable all the time.

Mike

Kosova has already a Government representing all its communities. The sooner you realize it, much better will be your knowledge for the new state.

“Illegal elections cannot have legal results. Their results will not be recognized,” Ruecker insisted.

That is ok, as long as illegal declarations of independence do not lead to a legal state.

Accordingly with Ruecker's argumentation: Illegal declaration of independence can't have the legal results.

They may not be recognized, but I have every reason to believe they will be formed. Sooner or later, UNMIK and the EU will have to bite the proverbial bullet and accept the realities that Kosovo is headed for a dual-government system.

Pejoni,

There's NO new state !! Not even this "BRANKOVIC VICTORY" can change that !! Do NOT plan enything on long term , because WE ARE STILL AROUND - with no tendentions to leave you alone!

Ahmet,

Here are the realities on the ground, at least from what I see and understand:

K-Serbs have voted in elections they deem both legitimate and theirs. They have no reason to trust anything coming out of Pristina. At the same time, they're not working to actively subvert authority in Pristina. What's yours is yours. What's their's is theirs.

Now consider the following two outcomes: let's say Tadic's coalition forms a majority in Belgrade. They're going to have to accept the votes and the elected Serb officials in Kosovo. Doing otherwise will cause the Radicals to push for a vote of no confidence. Be that as it may, Tadic is more likely than Nikolic to cut a deal with the West over any outstanding issues in Kosovo. If the West accepts the Serb government in their sectors in exchange for Serbia Proper agreeing to work with the EU and move the entire country closer towards Brussels, we'll have some form of agreement overall.

Now consider the possibility of an SRS-DSS-SPS coalition. All bets for a negotiated solution with the West are off, and there will be extra effort put in to strengthening Serb parallel structures in Kosovo. Again, nothing short of an outright military intervention is going to topple them. So to make the matter simple: we have either negotiated solution under Tadic in exchange for separate Kosovo institutions within the EU framework, or political stalemate under Nikolic in which Serb institutions solidify into de facto organizations, making the region a frozen conflict.

Pejoni, you wrote me "Kosova has already a Government representing all its communities. The sooner you realize it, much better will be your knowledge for the new state."

Please, cut the "Kosova has a goverment". You know just as everyone else the Serbs don't give a fig for your "new state", and will never live under your institutions, just as you refused to live under theirs. No acts of charity will get them to cooperate, even if you agree to build the largest Serbian Orthodox Cathedral in the world right in the middle of Pristina University (I could think of better things to do but this is a good example).

However, you fail to realize that many Serbs south of the Ibar, have little choice but to work with their Albanian neighbors one way or another. But many choose to work with them from the confines of their own political institutions. I can't really see an Independent State of Novo Brdo or something like that, but I can easily foresee a scenario in which the Albanian government must work with a local Serbian government in terms of trade, mobility, and security (all of which are already codified in the AP). The north on the other hand is as good as lost and you might as well accept that.

The Serbs want nothing to do with your "new state" you speak so highly of, but are not actively seeking to interfere in your own day to day affairs of said "new state". You may refuse to see it, but Kosovo's future is more sustainable under a dual political system.

Besides, what is it to you if the Serbs take matters into their own hands? As I wrote to Ahmet, what's yours is yours. But what's theirs is theirs, and something tells me that whether or not a Serb government is set up in Mitrovica or Gracanica, your life will barely be affected by it. If you're that bent on living in the same state as Serbs, you shouldn't have seceded in the first place.

Ahmet,

On a side note, leaving all politics aside, your comment that I "tend to think the unthinkable all the time" is taken as a compliment. Such is the life of an academic trying to understand the region without all the nationalistic noise coming from all different angles; both Serbian, and, yes, Albanian too. :)

It pretty much explains why I'm frustrated most of the time, but it's all a labor of love. Consider me a pragmatist with Serbian leanings (which I'm sure you already do).

There is a problem here, as i see it. normally i try to ignore the nationalists' arguments (though with b-92 that is clearly impossible, since they dominate), and i despise the radicals who are a direct link with all of the war crimes of the past (on the serb side.) that is the truth, and anyone who refuses to acknowledge that is simply in denial! moreover, it seems that the K-serbs always vote heavily for the radicals.

on the other hand, serb diaspora around the world have the right to vote in these elections. so how can serbs in the US or serbs in the UK be allowed to participate, but serbs in kosova not be? that seems quite illogical not to mention unfair. they are citizens of serbia, even if living in kosova. we finally have independence (thank god!) but that doesn't automatically change the hearts and minds of K-serbs, especially with the years of non-stop propaganda coming from their religious and political leadership...

this doesn't mean that Serbia "has" the north, or anything else of kosova. that is just their wishful thinking.

but whether they actually care for "their" serbs in kosova or just use them as pawns to try to keep the land, we have to consider the people themselves, and find ways to compromise. that's another aspect of democracy...

Roberto from Frisco

A lot of those alleged war crimes which roberto (a self admitted Jew who meddles in Serbia's politics (with Otpor)) are false, exaggerated or have militants described as "civilians".

The true death counts have show that Muslim deaths were WAY exaggerated and that the majority in Bosnia, for example, were military, not civilian.

The Bosnian Muslims had the largest military, the largest infantry. They were witnessed by UN officials provoking and staging crimes all throughout the war. They were witnessed shooting at the UN and civilians in Sarajevo by foreign soldiers stationed there. They shot out of the former Parliamentary building, for example.

Roberto is brainwashed by the creators and manufacturers of propaganda in this war - those who get their funding from NATO countries and LIE, LIE, LIE.

So much has been said about the "Illegal Declaration of Kosovo's Independence"
Do any of you guys really understand anything about the Law??

There is no such thing as an illegal or legal declaration of independence; there are no international laws that forbid a region or a people from declaring independence. Anybody in any Country in the World can make a Declaration of Independence. There is nothing illegal about it!

Once Independence is declared it is then a task for the country within which this has happened to do something about it! And before such a country takes action on the declaration it assess the views and opinions of other countries, In this case the biggest part of the Western World has ratified the Declaration of Independence in Kosovo. What’s also more important is that when the countries that surround Serbia have also ratified this declaration of independence it then makes it very hard for Serbia to anything at all. Please also note that when a sovereign country recognizes a declaration of Independence and establishes diplomatic relations it is also confirming its support for that country. So given that the majority of the Western Countries have done this they in turn have pledged their full support and their willingness to defend this support. That’s what it amounts to, so please please stop using slogans and talking about something you know very little about.

The other issue that most of you guys refer to is that fact that the Declaration of Independence was Unilateral (or one sided) and then you argue that it’s not legal because of that, well it may comes as a surprise to you but that is usually how Independence is Declared, by one side. There has never been a case to date where both sides of the dispute have declared independence.