Govt. adopts both deals, DSS walks out

Kostunica is an honorable man and all Serbs should vote for him and his party.A better way for him to have handled the SAA vote would have been for him to declare which items he agreed with(economic)and which ones were unacceptable and cross those out of the agreement.Every agreement can be altered and sent back and forth so it becomes a document which is acceptable to all Serbs.It is better to be constructive as opposed to obstructive.However,Kostunica is still the best the Serbs have.Shalom

Koštunica did the right thing. The signing of the SAA is an internal DS thing and nothing to do with the DSS or government. So why should he be present?

Maks, so the Serbians are to blame for all Albanian problems right? Seriously, the only people to blame are the Albanians themselves. Why else do they continue to follow policies for self-isolation? They did it in Albania and now in Kosovo.

As for drawing maps according to ethnic divisions, both the Serbias and the Albanians would make significant gains at the expense of all the other former YU republics (expect Slovenia). Serbia would also have access to the sea through Montenegro but who is willingly going to agree to such a change? Certainly not Macedonia, Montenegro, BiH or Croatia. They will be the big losers.

No ZK the signing of the SAA is now a government thing, passed by the elected government of Serbia - you would do to remember that rather than copying the already out of date DSS line.
But seriously you disappoint me when you parrot an official line. If the party state in Serbia is a serious problem, and I contend it is, educated Serbs should not be taking their cue from the parties.

Maks I am not a specialist on the position of Rankovic with regard to Hohxa's plan. I thought that one of the potential plans put forward was the attachment of Albania to Jugoslavija post WW2.

Even if what you are saying is correct, it may potentially irritate some Serbs who hold Rankovic is high regard. On the other hand it would also please Serbs who don't like the idea of ethnic states and are happy of the continued multicultural makeup of Serbia.

Your criticism / irritation of Serbian leaders can be equally applied to leaders throughout the region. I don't see anything ethnic / country specific about the behaviour of Serbia in regard to Kosovo etc. If situations were changed around I can easily imagine that all other Balkan countries would behave in a similar way to Serbia if they had (a) Kosovo.

However, I'd say that we all suffer from poor leaders in this region.

And then??! What happened to Hoxha and "his" country,Maks??!

At least , we need 200 years of "opposed" politics to come in that situation.

Hoxha was not able to propose nothing to no one.He was the biggest disaster in "history of leadership" and his country "looser of century".

Thank you Rankovic!!

(It was not that proposal,and it was not Rankovic..)

Walking out and doing nothing is just so typical of Kostunica's philosophy.

This is a man who has no ideas of his own. The only thing he appears to know is how to oppose something. And even then he always has to do this is the most infantile manner, never advocating a solution, rather, bitterly complaining about other people's proposals, making up imaginary scenarios based on populist arguments to curry favour with the uninformed or easily manipulated.

The fact is that when Zoran Djindjic wanted to resolve the Kosovo issue and demand a compromise from the west before his assasination, Kostunica opposed it saying 'wasn't the right time'. That was a huge mistake - and now he looks to blame everybody else apart from himself.

A good leader knows how to lead and not be constantly led by others and create events / plans, rather than responding to them.

Its truly pitiful to think that once upon a time (until say 2004) I thought he had Serbia's best interest at heart.

Kostunica once again proved what kind of "democrate" he really is. of course a real democrate has to accept results of a democratic voting of a cabinet he joins, also in case he did not agree with the majority. this is the nature of democratic votes - and it does not matter, whether one attends or not - a result is a result. in particular, it is a shame for a PM for not attending a vote though it would be possible. with such a behaviour he proved that he is not the right man for a key function in a democratic state.

Is it : " Mir,mir,mir niko nije kriv.." - strategy ?? Well , looks it doesnt help..How "old" are you DS ?!

The fact is that when Zoran Djindjic wanted to resolve the Kosovo issue and demand a compromise from the west before his assasination, Kostunica opposed it saying 'wasn't the right time'.
(bganon, 9 May 2008 17:34)

The right time was in 1945 when Albania communist leader Hoxha proposed to Tito that all Albanian territories to be part of unified Republic of Albania, all Serbian territories to be part of unified Republic of Serbia, all Croatian territories to be part of unified Republic of Croatia and the same with Slovenian, Bosnian and Macedonian territories. Even Albanian offered itself to be part of 7th Republic of Yugoslavia just to solve the ethnic mess in Yugoslavia. But guess who was against? It was Rankovic, a Serbian minister in Tito’s government. Interesting, always Serbian leaders think to rule others and will end up to admit that the previous solution was better then the current one so they keep rejecting the proposed solution until they end up to “love” one they bitterly opposed like resolution 1244.
I as Albanian don’t want to pretend that care for Serbian internal political affair if Serbia was far from Albania. We care because its politics effects us. And unfortunately we have suffered a lot from such leaders.

Koštunica did the right thing. The signing of the SAA is an internal DS thing and nothing to do with the DSS or government. So why should he be present?
(ZK UK, 9 May 2008 19:27)

did you ever hit a target with any of your strange arguments, ZK? or did you like to say indirectly, the unfavourable contract with Gazprom an "internal DSS thing"?

There is an eerie feeling of an anti-reality here.
Two days before the crucial elections, an ex-cabinet meets to to approve something,which ,practically two days later, would be annulled.
Strange, Man, Strange this Land of Serbia.

Is it : " Mir,mir,mir niko nije kriv.." - strategy ?

no, it is "Mir,mir,mir, ti si kriv" -strategy.

Maks, so the Serbians are to blame for all Albanian problems right? Seriously, the only people to blame are the Albanians themselves. Why else do they continue to follow policies for self-isolation? They did it in Albania and now in Kosovo.

As for drawing maps according to ethnic divisions, both the Serbias and the Albanians would make significant gains at the expense of all the other former YU republics (expect Slovenia). Serbia would also have access to the sea through Montenegro but who is willingly going to agree to such a change? Certainly not Macedonia, Montenegro, BiH or Croatia. They will be the big losers.
(ZK UK, 9 May 2008 19:27)

I didn’t blame Serbians for Albanian political or ideological self-isolation stupidity. That was part of communism era each came from Russia and all Eastern Europeans paid the price for it. I am talking about the neighboring relationship each.
As redrawing the borders – there was no one in ex-Yugoslavia who would feel loser on that perspective.
Why? Because Albanians never had claim territories where they are not autochthon and where they are not in majority. Check the history for this.

As you mention Slovenian will be neutral because they have less ethnic issue within their border.

For Croatia, they too would be happy because they don’t need to be spread in three countries.

For Bosnia - although Bosnia existed before Ottomans came to Balkan, there is no difference between Bosnians and Croatians, just religion no matter that they call themselves Muslim. And as you know religion doesn’t make a nation. So Bosnians if they were treated equal would be happy join whatever federation with Croatia or Serbia.

For Macedonia – there is no nation such Macedonian. Macedonians are gone. FYROM population is split between western Bulgarians who call themselves “Macedonian” like Albanians in Kosovo who called themselves Kosovar. “Macedonians” belong to Bulgaria regardless they feel “proud” to keep a fake name and fake flag, and speaking a fake “unique” Macedonian language.

As you see my friend, at Albanians you Serbs can find a great friend to unify Serbia in natural Serbia country and not on meaningless “Serbia is Kosovo” or “Kosovo is Serbia” or claiming others land where is nothing Serbian. Those ideas have never been true. They cannot be true regardless Russia support.

This is great! Serbian politics at work is the best thing for Serbia. It is not a question of who is right and who is wrong, it is a question of the dynamism and debate that makes all Serbs part of the whole unitary being.

Serbia has had a lot of *!#*/~ for a long time, but the real future is through being strong enough to thrash it all out through the various bodies and channels that express the confusions and the will of those of those involved.

"...major pipeline artery through Serbia with an annual minimum capacity of 10bn cc of gas..."

10 billion cc of gas is equal to 10 million litres of gas, which is equal to 10,000 cubic metres of gas.

Serbia could use this amount of gas every year on it's own, so how does Serbia intend to collect transit taxes when there is no gas left to go on to other countries???

As you see my friend, at Albanians you Serbs can find a great friend to unify Serbia in natural Serbia country and not on meaningless “Serbia is Kosovo” or “Kosovo is Serbia” or claiming others land where is nothing Serbian. Those ideas have never been true. They cannot be true regardless Russia support.
(Maks, 9 May 2008 22:38)

Is that right Maks? As a Krajinian, I can tell you Albanians were not our friends, your former "prime minister" Ceku was a leader in operation storm that saw hundreds of thousands of people expelled from our homes... why would a Kosovo Albanian want to take up arms to kill and destroy my people on behalf of Croatia??

The fascist fanaticism of Albanian's is scary. They will kill Serbs even where it is none of their business and then become prime ministers!!

We don't need "friends" like that.

However, if you are serious, I suggest you take the first step and recognize Krajina.

I even offer my father's house in Knin to be the "Kosova" embassy in Krajina (we will first need to evict some Bosnian Croats who have UDI'ed our house from us).

Maks, so the Serbians are to blame for all Albanian problems right? Seriously, the only people to blame are the Albanians themselves. Why else do they continue to follow policies for self-isolation? They did it in Albania and now in Kosovo.

As for drawing maps according to ethnic divisions, both the Serbias and the Albanians would make significant gains at the expense of all the other former YU republics (expect Slovenia). Serbia would also have access to the sea through Montenegro but who is willingly going to agree to such a change? Certainly not Macedonia, Montenegro, BiH or Croatia. They will be the big losers.
(ZK UK, 9 May 2008 19:27)

I didn’t blame Serbians for Albanian political or ideological self-isolation stupidity. That was part of communism era each came from Russia and all Eastern Europeans paid the price for it. I am talking about the neighboring relationship each.
As redrawing the borders – there was no one in ex-Yugoslavia who would feel loser on that perspective.
Why? Because Albanians never had claim territories where they are not autochthon and where they are not in majority. Check the history for this.

As you mention Slovenian will be neutral because they have less ethnic issue within their border.

For Croatia, they too would be happy because they don’t need to be spread in three countries.

For Bosnia - although Bosnia existed before Ottomans came to Balkan, there is no difference between Bosnians and Croatians, just religion no matter that they call themselves Muslim. And as you know religion doesn’t make a nation. So Bosnians if they were treated equal would be happy join whatever federation with Croatia or Serbia.

For Macedonia – there is no nation such Macedonian. Macedonians are gone. FYROM population is split between western Bulgarians who call themselves “Macedonian” like Albanians in Kosovo who called themselves Kosovar. “Macedonians” belong to Bulgaria regardless they feel “proud” to keep a fake name and fake flag, and speaking a fake “unique” Macedonian language.

As you see my friend, at Albanians you Serbs can find a great friend to unify Serbia in natural Serbia country and not on meaningless “Serbia is Kosovo” or “Kosovo is Serbia” or claiming others land where is nothing Serbian. Those ideas have never been true. They cannot be true regardless Russia support.

Walking out and doing nothing is just so typical of Kostunica's philosophy.

This is a man who has no ideas of his own. The only thing he appears to know is how to oppose something. And even then he always has to do this is the most infantile manner, never advocating a solution, rather, bitterly complaining about other people's proposals, making up imaginary scenarios based on populist arguments to curry favour with the uninformed or easily manipulated.

The fact is that when Zoran Djindjic wanted to resolve the Kosovo issue and demand a compromise from the west before his assasination, Kostunica opposed it saying 'wasn't the right time'. That was a huge mistake - and now he looks to blame everybody else apart from himself.

A good leader knows how to lead and not be constantly led by others and create events / plans, rather than responding to them.

Its truly pitiful to think that once upon a time (until say 2004) I thought he had Serbia's best interest at heart.

The fact is that when Zoran Djindjic wanted to resolve the Kosovo issue and demand a compromise from the west before his assasination, Kostunica opposed it saying 'wasn't the right time'.
(bganon, 9 May 2008 17:34)

The right time was in 1945 when Albania communist leader Hoxha proposed to Tito that all Albanian territories to be part of unified Republic of Albania, all Serbian territories to be part of unified Republic of Serbia, all Croatian territories to be part of unified Republic of Croatia and the same with Slovenian, Bosnian and Macedonian territories. Even Albanian offered itself to be part of 7th Republic of Yugoslavia just to solve the ethnic mess in Yugoslavia. But guess who was against? It was Rankovic, a Serbian minister in Tito’s government. Interesting, always Serbian leaders think to rule others and will end up to admit that the previous solution was better then the current one so they keep rejecting the proposed solution until they end up to “love” one they bitterly opposed like resolution 1244.
I as Albanian don’t want to pretend that care for Serbian internal political affair if Serbia was far from Albania. We care because its politics effects us. And unfortunately we have suffered a lot from such leaders.

Kostunica once again proved what kind of "democrate" he really is. of course a real democrate has to accept results of a democratic voting of a cabinet he joins, also in case he did not agree with the majority. this is the nature of democratic votes - and it does not matter, whether one attends or not - a result is a result. in particular, it is a shame for a PM for not attending a vote though it would be possible. with such a behaviour he proved that he is not the right man for a key function in a democratic state.

Is it : " Mir,mir,mir niko nije kriv.." - strategy ?? Well , looks it doesnt help..How "old" are you DS ?!

Koštunica did the right thing. The signing of the SAA is an internal DS thing and nothing to do with the DSS or government. So why should he be present?

Maks, so the Serbians are to blame for all Albanian problems right? Seriously, the only people to blame are the Albanians themselves. Why else do they continue to follow policies for self-isolation? They did it in Albania and now in Kosovo.

As for drawing maps according to ethnic divisions, both the Serbias and the Albanians would make significant gains at the expense of all the other former YU republics (expect Slovenia). Serbia would also have access to the sea through Montenegro but who is willingly going to agree to such a change? Certainly not Macedonia, Montenegro, BiH or Croatia. They will be the big losers.

No ZK the signing of the SAA is now a government thing, passed by the elected government of Serbia - you would do to remember that rather than copying the already out of date DSS line.
But seriously you disappoint me when you parrot an official line. If the party state in Serbia is a serious problem, and I contend it is, educated Serbs should not be taking their cue from the parties.

Maks I am not a specialist on the position of Rankovic with regard to Hohxa's plan. I thought that one of the potential plans put forward was the attachment of Albania to Jugoslavija post WW2.

Even if what you are saying is correct, it may potentially irritate some Serbs who hold Rankovic is high regard. On the other hand it would also please Serbs who don't like the idea of ethnic states and are happy of the continued multicultural makeup of Serbia.

Your criticism / irritation of Serbian leaders can be equally applied to leaders throughout the region. I don't see anything ethnic / country specific about the behaviour of Serbia in regard to Kosovo etc. If situations were changed around I can easily imagine that all other Balkan countries would behave in a similar way to Serbia if they had (a) Kosovo.

However, I'd say that we all suffer from poor leaders in this region.

Kostunica is an honorable man and all Serbs should vote for him and his party.A better way for him to have handled the SAA vote would have been for him to declare which items he agreed with(economic)and which ones were unacceptable and cross those out of the agreement.Every agreement can be altered and sent back and forth so it becomes a document which is acceptable to all Serbs.It is better to be constructive as opposed to obstructive.However,Kostunica is still the best the Serbs have.Shalom

There is an eerie feeling of an anti-reality here.
Two days before the crucial elections, an ex-cabinet meets to to approve something,which ,practically two days later, would be annulled.
Strange, Man, Strange this Land of Serbia.

Is it : " Mir,mir,mir niko nije kriv.." - strategy ?

no, it is "Mir,mir,mir, ti si kriv" -strategy.

And then??! What happened to Hoxha and "his" country,Maks??!

At least , we need 200 years of "opposed" politics to come in that situation.

Hoxha was not able to propose nothing to no one.He was the biggest disaster in "history of leadership" and his country "looser of century".

Thank you Rankovic!!

(It was not that proposal,and it was not Rankovic..)

Koštunica did the right thing. The signing of the SAA is an internal DS thing and nothing to do with the DSS or government. So why should he be present?
(ZK UK, 9 May 2008 19:27)

did you ever hit a target with any of your strange arguments, ZK? or did you like to say indirectly, the unfavourable contract with Gazprom an "internal DSS thing"?

This is great! Serbian politics at work is the best thing for Serbia. It is not a question of who is right and who is wrong, it is a question of the dynamism and debate that makes all Serbs part of the whole unitary being.

Serbia has had a lot of *!#*/~ for a long time, but the real future is through being strong enough to thrash it all out through the various bodies and channels that express the confusions and the will of those of those involved.

"...major pipeline artery through Serbia with an annual minimum capacity of 10bn cc of gas..."

10 billion cc of gas is equal to 10 million litres of gas, which is equal to 10,000 cubic metres of gas.

Serbia could use this amount of gas every year on it's own, so how does Serbia intend to collect transit taxes when there is no gas left to go on to other countries???

As you see my friend, at Albanians you Serbs can find a great friend to unify Serbia in natural Serbia country and not on meaningless “Serbia is Kosovo” or “Kosovo is Serbia” or claiming others land where is nothing Serbian. Those ideas have never been true. They cannot be true regardless Russia support.
(Maks, 9 May 2008 22:38)

Is that right Maks? As a Krajinian, I can tell you Albanians were not our friends, your former "prime minister" Ceku was a leader in operation storm that saw hundreds of thousands of people expelled from our homes... why would a Kosovo Albanian want to take up arms to kill and destroy my people on behalf of Croatia??

The fascist fanaticism of Albanian's is scary. They will kill Serbs even where it is none of their business and then become prime ministers!!

We don't need "friends" like that.

However, if you are serious, I suggest you take the first step and recognize Krajina.

I even offer my father's house in Knin to be the "Kosova" embassy in Krajina (we will first need to evict some Bosnian Croats who have UDI'ed our house from us).