Kosovo has divided Europe, says Jeremić

So Jeremić, you think it will help Serbia to get closer to the EU when most of its members have recognised NATO's occupation? The only successful way to complete that plan is to get Serbia on board. Status neutral works against Serbia when most of the are against us.

You see, without Serbia they have no chance whatsoever of completing their plan. Kosovo remains a black hole and only when a strong Serbia rises will they have to reconsider.

So the sooner the SAA is status ništa, the better. Then the EU risk losing Serbia for 1.8 million Albanians who have ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of non-Albanians, who set fire to the lands historical churches and have strong criminal links.

Serbia in the EU as a whole only! The choice is clear.

albano, if the EU love the Albanians so much then why don't they offer them Visa free travel? Trust me, the Albanians have a very long way to go before they get anywhere near that offer. Serbia is doing very well without the EU right now but the question is, what happens to the Albanians in Kosovo if Serbia does not join the EU? You see, they end up living in a black hole of their own making.

Joe, as for figures, it really depends on which lies you believed. I don't know the figures but I do remember Clinton lying about 100,000 dead before the NATO bombing. The Americans and Europeans didn't have Alzheimer disease but they certainly had "I'll believe any rubbish they put on TV" disease.

ZK,

You make one big mistake. You presume somehow that your readers are Martians, who never heard of Kosovo before.
Sure there was some burning of churches but how many K-Albanian houses were burned down by Serbs in 1999? I forgot the correct number..was it 80-100,000?
I vividly remember all those terrible TV images of burning houses just like millions of American and European citizens. They did not have the Alzheimer disease, they remember it very well.

I believe that Serbia has lost Kosovo. The only thing left for Serbia to do now is to concentrate on joining the EU.

"So the sooner the SAA is status ništa, the better. Then the EU risk losing Serbia for 1.8 million Albanians who have ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of non-Albanians, who set fire to the lands historical churches and have strong criminal links.

Serbia in the EU as a whole only! The choice is clear.
(ZK UK, 7 May 2008 12:34) "



You are funny, maybe the EU has seen and undertsand now, that over 8 Mil albanians in Balkans can be more valuable friends, then warmaking, nationalists serbs, so I think EU can live without Serbia, but what about Serbia, can survive without EU?

Autonomy is not the proper solution. Albanians would be fools if they believe in Serbian tolerance for they future. Serbia is a country where Radical Nationalists still win over 1/3 of the votes and are a major political force. What guarantees have Albanians that in 10 years another Milosevic would not come along and start the conflict all over again. In fact what guarantees does Europe have on this? NONE.

Europe seems willing to deal with Serbia today and to break the system of its moral values, rather than dealing with another insane Milosevic in the future.

The sad truth is that EU does not want neither the Serb nor the Albanians! In the minds of most EU citizens Greece was a disapointment, Romania and Bulgaria are a disaster and Turkey would be a cathastrophe! EU is sinkink in the Balkan mud and does not know how to get out of it!

ZK,

What you call TV rubbish was a Serbian live production with film director Slobodan Milosevic...film studio: Kosovo
Actors: Serbs supporting their infamous director.
Title of the film: "The Bad and the Ugly" as opposed to the old cowboy film "The Good,the Bad and the Ugly".

“Negotiations that are successful, led with good intentions and in the spirit of compromise.."

"Compromise" to keep Kosova with Serbia is not a compromise Mr Jeremic.

Serbia had enough time to negotiate an agreed solution. I have mentioned in the past many many time. There would have been no compromise when it comes to the Status of Kosova. It is as simple as that. After all that the Kosovar Albanians have been through under the Serbia state to ask them again to remain with that state would be an absolute nonsense and cynical. I believe that should have not been a war in Kosova then Jeremic would have had reason to ask for a compromise. It is just too LATE offer as Serbia was forced out of Kosova. We all know the reasons.

As of recently 19/27 EU countries have recognized Kosova. I believe EU is on the path on convergence towards a unified position.

If Serbs hate Albanians so much, then why do Serbs want Kosovo (92% Albanians)?

It's simple, vote for radicals, and join Soviet Union with Russia and Belarus, and don't even bother with EU, cuz EU doesn't want you either!

He said that if the SAA was annulled, then there would be no European integration, no visa-free travel or free trade regimes.-

Mr. Minister, in how many ways and how many times will you mislead the Serb people...?

Cant they travel w/o this devious treaty, who says so?

If Europe is unwilling, let them travel to Asia,East Europe, CIS,Americas etc...

Serbia has just started to assert its path, let it finish, for god's sake!

As somebody who is going to work in Belgrade - I happily disagree with (almost) everyone here, who is not involved with "Western" travel-headache, technology-headache but dealing with (geographical) "East" is not much easier either.

So I have to disagree with ZK. We need SAA as a starting point. Everything is negotiable. "West" has no backbone.

I have to disagree with Mircea. Kosovo is not lost simply because it so much depends, what kind of wind is blowing across the Atlantic. It's a war by proxy. There are certain personal issues between Putin-clan and Cheney-clan, later being infuriated by being outmaneuvered on the gas scene and losing some deals they almost grabbed.

I have to disagree with Albano. There are no "friends" between E.U. members. There are politics. Albania is actually a special case with Albanians being actively disliked by regular citizens all over E.U. Albanians need certain time to be accepted. No need to poke Serbs in the nose, this is what the entire Albanian "gang" is doing here. This just shows how immature and violent they are. I barely did see any comment from pro-Albanian side which would show any sign of maturity - only hatred, violence. This is just the top of iceberg. If you look at Albanian comments on Youtube - what can we say? These people are further from Europe than Moon.

I have to disagree with Joe. His reaction is actually pretty typical for Hungarian immigration: Serbofobia married with Russofobia. I understand the reasons behind it. I think, the best solution is to overcome and spend some $ in either country as a tourist. They won't eat you and you may get a rather pleasant experience. I did write to few H. expats on "Nagycsapat" ring, you may know that ring - but all in vain. Forget the rocky past, clear your mind and spend a week or two in either place. I can tell you, that will be money well-spent and much less than you expect. Sadly, USD is down the toilet against DIN and RBL, but still doing better than against EUR.

You can rent an American-made van or car in Budapest (like what you use to drive in the States) fro a company which would allow to drive it to Serbia (except Kosovo!). Spend 4-5 days. For Russia, go to a river cruise.

If you are lucky, that will cure the Serbofobia/Russofobia quickly.

I have to tell Vencor, the 2008 VISA-Deceipt-Game was successfully opened by Russia and Serbia. Russian and Serb governments misled their citiznes that they can travel "visa-free". What they forgot to tell in the press release, that instead of visa issued against a (very easy, essentially bogus) invitation now the citizens of Serbia and Russia have to produce the ORIGINAL (not fax, not e-mail!) of the invitation or ORIGINAL vauchers - and it's up to the border guards to decide, what is accepted, what is not. Hint (in Persian language): "Baksheesh, shaheeb"... Who is unlucky, can be turned back at the border. Neat "visa-free regime". Just hope, E.U. won't learn from Russian government how to make travel for Serbs "visa-free".

Michael is absolutely incorrect, of course. I have some doubts, Russia wants Serbia at all (see that visa-free bogus announcement). Now, what is interesting - it was Serbia first, who initiated that "visa-free" thing, but still demanded invitations and hotel vauchers. Here I have doubts, Serbia really wants these unkempt, dirty, scary brown bears (=us) arriving in great number and endangering the streets of Belgrade. Alas, I already did cheat many times: I use U.S. or Hungarian passport. It seems, Americans are more welcome to Serbia than Russians.

(Side-note: Russians don't need any invitation, hotel vaucher or other idiotic paper to enter BiH or Crna Gora. It's just Croatia, Serbia and Macedonia who have that old Socialst-era attitude). Not that Russians are any better... they ask everyone for vaucher or invitation.

AFAIK, the only country outside of C.I.S. which did agree with Russia on a regular, normal, unrestricted visa-free travel is Israel. Thumbs up on that.

--------------------------------

After making everyone my enemy here, let's dissect the original text of Jeremic.

1)

“The unilateral declaration of independence has solved nothing, has not made things better, has not consolidated values, has not improved cooperation, has not contributed to reconciliation, nor contributed to stability or security,“

TRUE, 100% AGREE.

2)

"instead of joint work to bring Belgrade and Priština closer within a single country with maximum autonomy for the province’s Albanians, a solution had been imposed that was destroying the very essence of Europe’s system of values."

TRUE, 100% AGREE.

3)

"“This has harmed Serbia, the Western Balkans and Europe."

TRUE, 100% AGREE.

4)

"the only way to overcome this rift, the only way to remain dedicated to European values and reach a sustainable solution was a return to the negotiating table"

TRUE, 100% AGREE.

5)

"commitment has been strengthened by the recent signing of the Stabilization and Association Agreement between Serbia and the EU."

TRUE, 100% AGREE.

6)

"the contours of our European future have been firmly drawn"

TRUE, 100% AGREE. (Note the word "CONTOURS", very precisely used. It's just CONTOURS).

7)

"all 27 countries that had signed the SAA with Serbia had done so “completely outside the context” of resolving the future status of Kosovo"

TRUE, 100% AGREE. Proof: did Cyprus and Slovakia sign? These are the most vicious opponents of Kosovo independence, currently more than Serbia itself.

8)

"If the SAA was annulled, then there would be no European integration, no visa-free travel or free trade regimes."

Here partly agree. Paraguay, Venezuela has visa-free regime but no SAA. They have Spain as lobby - and besides the visa-free regime also some trade concessions.

9)

“At the same time, it must be clear that there is a notorious misconception that Serbia will strengthen its capacities to defend Kosovo by distancing itself from the EU. The opposite is in fact true,”

Here disagree. Wrong either way and it does contradict the saying "SAA, Kosovo status unrelated". If they are unrelated, than distancing from E.U. and Kosovo is unrelated as well.

The truth IMHO: it's indeed, unrelated. Serbia can both weaken and strengthen it's stance defending Kosovo by distancing from E.U. and same applies to embracing E.U. All depends, how things are executed.

I did mention this unlucky, stupid "visa-free" travel regime between Serbia and Russia versus a better one between Russia and Israel for a good reason: it's an illustration of a poor execution of "let's embrace Russia" policy.

As many times underscored: the dream of Russia is Serbia being in E.U. and defending Russia's interests. That means, Serbia needs to embrace both. Just do it properly. As a first step, finally do that Russian visa thing properly. That's the easiest one. ;-)

Otherwise I can say, what Mr. Jeremic told is correct to a very high degree. Maybe I will say it differently later, but so far enough to convince me to vote for DS.

ZK UK
You never seem to get it right my friend! This FREE VISA thing that you constantly talk about! you should read it again and again to understand what it means. FREE Visas for Serbian citizens means that they dont have to pay the visa fee at the embassy, not they way you put it my friend. still the serbs wiil have to obtain a visa at a respective embassy.

spunky, free-visa travel or visa-free travel is the same EU carrot wrapped up in different ways.

However, that carrot or even visa travel will not be offered to the Albanians for a very long time unless, of course, they stop pretending and get out their Serbian passports, which they are guarding closely.

But it should be very clear that the free-visa travel (meaning you don't pay to get a visa) is being wrapped up differently by Jeremić to say visa-free travel. Now that is pure deception and the way the DS/EU are running their campaign.

Ataman,

If I unterstand it correctly you are going to work in Belgrade not out of choice but by necessity. You are multilingual with Russian, English, Hungarian and German.
With your great linguistical and professional background you would I think do much better in booming Moscow. You are also an ethnic Russian (pocessing a Russian passport) so you would not have to confront any usual bureaucracy. Is it maybe the high cost of renting an appartment that holds you back? Just curious since I know the advantages and desadvantages of many European cities.

"So the sooner the SAA is status ništa, the better. Then the EU risk losing Serbia for 1.8 million Albanians who have ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of non-Albanians, who set fire to the lands historical churches and have strong criminal links.

Serbia in the EU as a whole only! The choice is clear.
(ZK UK, 7 May 2008 12:34) "



You are funny, maybe the EU has seen and undertsand now, that over 8 Mil albanians in Balkans can be more valuable friends, then warmaking, nationalists serbs, so I think EU can live without Serbia, but what about Serbia, can survive without EU?

ZK,

You make one big mistake. You presume somehow that your readers are Martians, who never heard of Kosovo before.
Sure there was some burning of churches but how many K-Albanian houses were burned down by Serbs in 1999? I forgot the correct number..was it 80-100,000?
I vividly remember all those terrible TV images of burning houses just like millions of American and European citizens. They did not have the Alzheimer disease, they remember it very well.

Autonomy is not the proper solution. Albanians would be fools if they believe in Serbian tolerance for they future. Serbia is a country where Radical Nationalists still win over 1/3 of the votes and are a major political force. What guarantees have Albanians that in 10 years another Milosevic would not come along and start the conflict all over again. In fact what guarantees does Europe have on this? NONE.

Europe seems willing to deal with Serbia today and to break the system of its moral values, rather than dealing with another insane Milosevic in the future.

ZK,

What you call TV rubbish was a Serbian live production with film director Slobodan Milosevic...film studio: Kosovo
Actors: Serbs supporting their infamous director.
Title of the film: "The Bad and the Ugly" as opposed to the old cowboy film "The Good,the Bad and the Ugly".

I believe that Serbia has lost Kosovo. The only thing left for Serbia to do now is to concentrate on joining the EU.

ZK UK
You never seem to get it right my friend! This FREE VISA thing that you constantly talk about! you should read it again and again to understand what it means. FREE Visas for Serbian citizens means that they dont have to pay the visa fee at the embassy, not they way you put it my friend. still the serbs wiil have to obtain a visa at a respective embassy.

“Negotiations that are successful, led with good intentions and in the spirit of compromise.."

"Compromise" to keep Kosova with Serbia is not a compromise Mr Jeremic.

Serbia had enough time to negotiate an agreed solution. I have mentioned in the past many many time. There would have been no compromise when it comes to the Status of Kosova. It is as simple as that. After all that the Kosovar Albanians have been through under the Serbia state to ask them again to remain with that state would be an absolute nonsense and cynical. I believe that should have not been a war in Kosova then Jeremic would have had reason to ask for a compromise. It is just too LATE offer as Serbia was forced out of Kosova. We all know the reasons.

If Serbs hate Albanians so much, then why do Serbs want Kosovo (92% Albanians)?

It's simple, vote for radicals, and join Soviet Union with Russia and Belarus, and don't even bother with EU, cuz EU doesn't want you either!

As of recently 19/27 EU countries have recognized Kosova. I believe EU is on the path on convergence towards a unified position.

albano, if the EU love the Albanians so much then why don't they offer them Visa free travel? Trust me, the Albanians have a very long way to go before they get anywhere near that offer. Serbia is doing very well without the EU right now but the question is, what happens to the Albanians in Kosovo if Serbia does not join the EU? You see, they end up living in a black hole of their own making.

Joe, as for figures, it really depends on which lies you believed. I don't know the figures but I do remember Clinton lying about 100,000 dead before the NATO bombing. The Americans and Europeans didn't have Alzheimer disease but they certainly had "I'll believe any rubbish they put on TV" disease.

So Jeremić, you think it will help Serbia to get closer to the EU when most of its members have recognised NATO's occupation? The only successful way to complete that plan is to get Serbia on board. Status neutral works against Serbia when most of the are against us.

You see, without Serbia they have no chance whatsoever of completing their plan. Kosovo remains a black hole and only when a strong Serbia rises will they have to reconsider.

So the sooner the SAA is status ništa, the better. Then the EU risk losing Serbia for 1.8 million Albanians who have ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of non-Albanians, who set fire to the lands historical churches and have strong criminal links.

Serbia in the EU as a whole only! The choice is clear.

The sad truth is that EU does not want neither the Serb nor the Albanians! In the minds of most EU citizens Greece was a disapointment, Romania and Bulgaria are a disaster and Turkey would be a cathastrophe! EU is sinkink in the Balkan mud and does not know how to get out of it!

He said that if the SAA was annulled, then there would be no European integration, no visa-free travel or free trade regimes.-

Mr. Minister, in how many ways and how many times will you mislead the Serb people...?

Cant they travel w/o this devious treaty, who says so?

If Europe is unwilling, let them travel to Asia,East Europe, CIS,Americas etc...

Serbia has just started to assert its path, let it finish, for god's sake!

spunky, free-visa travel or visa-free travel is the same EU carrot wrapped up in different ways.

However, that carrot or even visa travel will not be offered to the Albanians for a very long time unless, of course, they stop pretending and get out their Serbian passports, which they are guarding closely.

But it should be very clear that the free-visa travel (meaning you don't pay to get a visa) is being wrapped up differently by Jeremić to say visa-free travel. Now that is pure deception and the way the DS/EU are running their campaign.

As somebody who is going to work in Belgrade - I happily disagree with (almost) everyone here, who is not involved with "Western" travel-headache, technology-headache but dealing with (geographical) "East" is not much easier either.

So I have to disagree with ZK. We need SAA as a starting point. Everything is negotiable. "West" has no backbone.

I have to disagree with Mircea. Kosovo is not lost simply because it so much depends, what kind of wind is blowing across the Atlantic. It's a war by proxy. There are certain personal issues between Putin-clan and Cheney-clan, later being infuriated by being outmaneuvered on the gas scene and losing some deals they almost grabbed.

I have to disagree with Albano. There are no "friends" between E.U. members. There are politics. Albania is actually a special case with Albanians being actively disliked by regular citizens all over E.U. Albanians need certain time to be accepted. No need to poke Serbs in the nose, this is what the entire Albanian "gang" is doing here. This just shows how immature and violent they are. I barely did see any comment from pro-Albanian side which would show any sign of maturity - only hatred, violence. This is just the top of iceberg. If you look at Albanian comments on Youtube - what can we say? These people are further from Europe than Moon.

I have to disagree with Joe. His reaction is actually pretty typical for Hungarian immigration: Serbofobia married with Russofobia. I understand the reasons behind it. I think, the best solution is to overcome and spend some $ in either country as a tourist. They won't eat you and you may get a rather pleasant experience. I did write to few H. expats on "Nagycsapat" ring, you may know that ring - but all in vain. Forget the rocky past, clear your mind and spend a week or two in either place. I can tell you, that will be money well-spent and much less than you expect. Sadly, USD is down the toilet against DIN and RBL, but still doing better than against EUR.

You can rent an American-made van or car in Budapest (like what you use to drive in the States) fro a company which would allow to drive it to Serbia (except Kosovo!). Spend 4-5 days. For Russia, go to a river cruise.

If you are lucky, that will cure the Serbofobia/Russofobia quickly.

I have to tell Vencor, the 2008 VISA-Deceipt-Game was successfully opened by Russia and Serbia. Russian and Serb governments misled their citiznes that they can travel "visa-free". What they forgot to tell in the press release, that instead of visa issued against a (very easy, essentially bogus) invitation now the citizens of Serbia and Russia have to produce the ORIGINAL (not fax, not e-mail!) of the invitation or ORIGINAL vauchers - and it's up to the border guards to decide, what is accepted, what is not. Hint (in Persian language): "Baksheesh, shaheeb"... Who is unlucky, can be turned back at the border. Neat "visa-free regime". Just hope, E.U. won't learn from Russian government how to make travel for Serbs "visa-free".

Michael is absolutely incorrect, of course. I have some doubts, Russia wants Serbia at all (see that visa-free bogus announcement). Now, what is interesting - it was Serbia first, who initiated that "visa-free" thing, but still demanded invitations and hotel vauchers. Here I have doubts, Serbia really wants these unkempt, dirty, scary brown bears (=us) arriving in great number and endangering the streets of Belgrade. Alas, I already did cheat many times: I use U.S. or Hungarian passport. It seems, Americans are more welcome to Serbia than Russians.

(Side-note: Russians don't need any invitation, hotel vaucher or other idiotic paper to enter BiH or Crna Gora. It's just Croatia, Serbia and Macedonia who have that old Socialst-era attitude). Not that Russians are any better... they ask everyone for vaucher or invitation.

AFAIK, the only country outside of C.I.S. which did agree with Russia on a regular, normal, unrestricted visa-free travel is Israel. Thumbs up on that.

--------------------------------

After making everyone my enemy here, let's dissect the original text of Jeremic.

1)

“The unilateral declaration of independence has solved nothing, has not made things better, has not consolidated values, has not improved cooperation, has not contributed to reconciliation, nor contributed to stability or security,“

TRUE, 100% AGREE.

2)

"instead of joint work to bring Belgrade and Priština closer within a single country with maximum autonomy for the province’s Albanians, a solution had been imposed that was destroying the very essence of Europe’s system of values."

TRUE, 100% AGREE.

3)

"“This has harmed Serbia, the Western Balkans and Europe."

TRUE, 100% AGREE.

4)

"the only way to overcome this rift, the only way to remain dedicated to European values and reach a sustainable solution was a return to the negotiating table"

TRUE, 100% AGREE.

5)

"commitment has been strengthened by the recent signing of the Stabilization and Association Agreement between Serbia and the EU."

TRUE, 100% AGREE.

6)

"the contours of our European future have been firmly drawn"

TRUE, 100% AGREE. (Note the word "CONTOURS", very precisely used. It's just CONTOURS).

7)

"all 27 countries that had signed the SAA with Serbia had done so “completely outside the context” of resolving the future status of Kosovo"

TRUE, 100% AGREE. Proof: did Cyprus and Slovakia sign? These are the most vicious opponents of Kosovo independence, currently more than Serbia itself.

8)

"If the SAA was annulled, then there would be no European integration, no visa-free travel or free trade regimes."

Here partly agree. Paraguay, Venezuela has visa-free regime but no SAA. They have Spain as lobby - and besides the visa-free regime also some trade concessions.

9)

“At the same time, it must be clear that there is a notorious misconception that Serbia will strengthen its capacities to defend Kosovo by distancing itself from the EU. The opposite is in fact true,”

Here disagree. Wrong either way and it does contradict the saying "SAA, Kosovo status unrelated". If they are unrelated, than distancing from E.U. and Kosovo is unrelated as well.

The truth IMHO: it's indeed, unrelated. Serbia can both weaken and strengthen it's stance defending Kosovo by distancing from E.U. and same applies to embracing E.U. All depends, how things are executed.

I did mention this unlucky, stupid "visa-free" travel regime between Serbia and Russia versus a better one between Russia and Israel for a good reason: it's an illustration of a poor execution of "let's embrace Russia" policy.

As many times underscored: the dream of Russia is Serbia being in E.U. and defending Russia's interests. That means, Serbia needs to embrace both. Just do it properly. As a first step, finally do that Russian visa thing properly. That's the easiest one. ;-)

Otherwise I can say, what Mr. Jeremic told is correct to a very high degree. Maybe I will say it differently later, but so far enough to convince me to vote for DS.

Ataman,

If I unterstand it correctly you are going to work in Belgrade not out of choice but by necessity. You are multilingual with Russian, English, Hungarian and German.
With your great linguistical and professional background you would I think do much better in booming Moscow. You are also an ethnic Russian (pocessing a Russian passport) so you would not have to confront any usual bureaucracy. Is it maybe the high cost of renting an appartment that holds you back? Just curious since I know the advantages and desadvantages of many European cities.