LDP to protest against Russian energy deal

These are the real Trojan horses inside Serbian politics today...

They will oppose everything that prevents slavery for the Serbians

Despite several European countries to support Serbia there is quite little doubt that only one state is strongly motivated to see a strong Serbia. But it's a bad luck that such people like the LDP protesters can see only what they are interested to see. Those people can't poison our relations for in Russia we also have such a Fifth Column to feed up from the same souces as the LDP & Co.

Russia too made a mistake when we gave a moral support for Tadic to run for the President. Otherwise there would be no problems neither with the Parliamentals nor with the NIS 51% share. Russia should better work with Kostunica as the only weak chain in the further coalition. Russia should not any longer keep it secret what plannings do we have for Serbia in every sphere. We should not remain so passive when the other side adds new cheese to the trap they prepared for the Serbs. Russia have much more free cash than the EU-US duet with our economy unable to absorb even half of those money. So it's high time for us to tell the Serbs what we can really do for them. Then even the LDP will split for after all the are also Serbs.

This guy knows what he's talking about. I'm sure all diaspora serbs here will denounce him.

Stevan, Rote Kapella,

I know many people on this forum haven't realised that the Cold War is over, but I think it's time to do as both Russian and Western leaders have done and move out of this view of the world as caught in a sort of binary, us-vs-them opposition. Believe me when I say that Russia WANTS Serbia in the EU. Russia is not the Communist Soviet Union that seems to nest in your minds - it too is committed to free markets, multilateralism and cooperation insofar as it doesn't oppose its national interests. A Serbia in the EU would also bring the bloc and Russia closer together. Serbia would increase Russia's influence across the European continent.

Has Russia ever once implied that it does not want Serbia to join the European Union??

No.

Serbia is hence not choosing between the EU and Russia. Russia and the EU are not mutually exclusive. Serbia needs both, will have both and indeed can only choose both - if only with time.

Russia is growing stronger - true - but why should that mean that the EU is waning? The EU, too, if you haven't noticed, is growing stronger. They're growing stronger, not at each other's expense, but BECAUSE OF each other's successes. Who is buying Russian oil? Who is buying EU manufactures and technology?

Serbia needs to wake up and understand that she no longer can play Tito's game of turning Russia and the West against each other and then reap the spoils. She has to understand that Russia and the EU are economic partners and that most (if not all) of their interests, believe it or not, coincide.

Serbia is a key player in furthering that partnership.

Enough of these empty slogans inherited from Krushchev, Brezhnev and their likes!

I hate people like Jovanovic. Where is the man's dignity, where is his pride? I would be ashamed to be like him, he sits whenever the Yanks or the Eurocrats tell him to do... It's sad if not anything else.

I really have no strong opinions one way or the other over the Russia energy deal, but I did have to snicker a little yesterday when walking past the big SRS rally held in Trg Republike and hearing Toma repeatedly say that "Serbia is not for sale", knowing he was one of the biggest supporters in giving Moscow nearly all of Serbia's energy industries.

Rote Kapella,

"… in Russia we also have such a Fifth Column to feed up from the same souces as the LDP & Co. .."

Exactly. LDP&CO, (Tadic, Sutanovac, Dinkic, Kandic, Biserko…), are our Ponomaryov, Roginsky, Novodvorskaya, Minkin, Kasparov … Empire use same tactics against both of us.

"… Russia … not … secret … plannings … for Serbia in every sphere. … not remain so passive when the other side adds new cheese to the trap they prepared for the Serbs. Russia have much more free cash than the EU-US duet … high time … to tell the Serbs what we can really do for them. Then even the LDP will split for after all the are also Serbs…"

Nicely sad. A lot of Serb supporters of the western orientation are still not aware of the changed geo-political situation. Many of them are actually very angry at the West, but they are worried about possible new war with a NATO, DU pollution, isolation, poverty, hardships…. They are influenced by media in western hands. If they could clearly see possible alternatives, big part of them would vote differently.

"… Contemporary Russia is Serbian economic partner and only those with the poisoned paranoid mind imagine we risk 'iron curtain' because of the gas pipeline deal. .."

Veki, yes, there is no ideological confrontation any more, no curtains any more. As for Russian - Serb ties, they are much deeper then changing ideologies….

Martin

You know the only thing we need in Serbia is a friendly elite for we already have there the utmost friendly population. Under this condition it doesn't matter where Serbia will have membership. Even if it becomes a NATO member it will only mean we have an extra full stop vote inside. To say nothing of EU integration which can only bring new advantages for all sides involved. In this case Serbia could become an EU envoy to solve the most complicated things with Russia.

But you should know Russia is no longer satisfied with the existing relations with EU and big changes are expected here. One of them is already evident. Europe will no longer be the prior direction in our foreign policy. For the first time a Russian leader will make his first trip not to the West but to the East. As you know Medvedev is expected to visit our strategic partners in Kazakhstan an China. Thus Russia may stop knocking at the closed doors with 26 padlocks on it when there are so many open ones ready to welcome us.

Then it will be evident how urgent we need each other. It's a EU problem when any state can bar the cooperation just to solve it's own vendetta problems. First it was Poland and now Liethuania to revenge for the NORD STREAM and MAJEIKIAS PLANT. So we have nothing to do but to develop bilateral relations with Europe and Serbia may become our special project to prove that prosperity lives not only inside EU.
.

I agree with Adrian
Sign this contract before the elections as you have done with SAA we all know that it is a bargain for the Russian but maybe they will decide to put some money in your country

Down with Stalin! Down with Lenin!

God, how stupid is that, to undermine Tadic 2 days before the election...?! I mean who's afraid of the Russian politics from the time of Stalin? If you ask me I am not because it's long over with and will never return.
And someone so enlightened and world-wise like Jovanovic
seems still having a lots of prejudices from some dark-era's, exactly those which he claims we all must leave behind in his liberal blubber.

Contemporary Russia is Serbian economic partner and only those with the poisoned paranoid mind imagine we risk 'iron curtain' because of the gas pipeline deal.

And last but not the least,to point to some Jovanovic politics paradoxes: exactly
Kosovo and ratification became the stone for him to stumble upon.Hey, I thought he believes Kosovo is 'gone'; and if it is why bother, why call it in any way? Why undermine your natural political partner because of Kosovo, ratification at this very moment?

Instead of what he is doing he should have of course tried to help Tadic win the election.
For any price.

For now, he seems to me more like a poet than a politician with the focus.

And all his errors in judgement- for what a price!
'Gubernija' is just around the corner....

Just sign it already Mr. Tadic!
It could have been better negotiated like 50/50 stake and a couple more money on Nis, but you know the russians, they don't back down. So sign it and also nobody can say anything anymore that you are going against Russian interests just to please the west.

Stevan

Dear Stevan ! I follow your comments here with each of them full of love and hope for Russia. It's not good for both of us that Russia is so busy with the recharging of the state power here. Now that political independence is no longer a problem the main stress is expected to be done at the economy. So Putin remains in the main stream. Hopefully in his speech today he will mention something important for the Serbs too. Just one sentence that we are ready to invest in Serbia upto 10 bln euro annually would change the situation drastically. So let's wait. Russia has got 2 days to make a gesture to support our backers in Serbia.

Good luck !
.

Crveni Vuk,

You say you hate but that you have no argument. Do you have anything apart from empty rethoric? Some argument about LDP's policies perhaps? Or is that needless in Serbia these days. Hatred is enough in itself?

Martin,

"… Cold War is over, … it's time to do as both Russian and Western leaders have done and move out of this view of the world…"

Russian leaders in the 90-'s did, but western didn't.

Are you familiar with a works of Zbigniew Brezinsky? The Project for the new American century? What do you think about official US military doctrine? Western foreign policy after the disappearance of East Block? NATO's changed role and never ending expansion? Preventive "wars? Development of "tactical" nuclear weapons and advocating their usage "preventively" even against countries that does not have nuclear weapons? Deliberate weakening of international order and misuse of international organizations for promotion and advancing own interests? Ever growing missile stockpiles that keep coming closer to Russian borders? Is that all just an expression of peaceful intentions? Friendliness towards Russia? Is that in the Russian interest? I don't think so.

"… Russia is not the Communist Soviet Union…"

No, it isn't. I am perfectly aware of that fact. Present conflict of interests between the West and Russia is not ideological any more. Ideologies and governments are changing relatively quickly, but geo - political interests are pretty permanent. These days, it is back to the good, old fashion fight for the territories, natural resources, markets, influence zones, dominance… Relations between the west and Russia are actually quite similar to what they used to be during XIX century and beginning of the XX century, until the First World War. (With exemption of wars, fortunately). It is a sort of an uneasy "partnership", with a some common interests but also many conflicting ones. West will, for example, still do everything they can to prevent Russian Navy to get an access to the warm water Mediteran ports, exactly what Britain prevented during the XIX century.

During the nineties, Russia made unpresented sacrifices in the search of an rapprochement with a West. It was a rare historical chance for the West to finally build a long lasting friendship with a Russians. To make them, friend, partner. Unfortunately, West was not interested. West doesn't want partnership, West prefer obedience. Opportunity was missed, greed prevailed. They interpreted temporary Russian crisis as a permanent weakness. They wanted to maximize their gains, thought it was a time to destroy Russia once and for all. Plans were made. Goal was to plunge Russia deep into the recession, poverty and chaos, amplify and exploit internal conflicts as a tool for disintegration of enormous Russian space in as many small, weak, banana republics as possible, with a Western puppets in the power. Easy to control and exploit. Very similar to what they have done to us. In western view, Russia was predestined to be used as raw material base for further expansion of the West.

Ideologies set aside, Russia is just much to big, independent and different for Western taste. It is also most powerful state of the Orthodox world, with an enormous potential prestige and influence on all Orthodox nations. It could use this influence to its advantage.

"… Russia WANTS Serbia in the EU…."

Hmm I don't know, not so sure, it depends on conditions I suppose, not for any price. One of the things which I miss the most in whole EU discussion not only in Serbia but also in EU itself is lack of clear picture what is EU exactly? What it stands for? Where does it will to go? I am, for my self, all for the cooperation.

I have to stop now, will continue later.

Rote Kapella,

"… comments here with each of them full of love and hope for Russia…"

Well, it is only natural. Regardless what happens, Serbs will always have a special soft spot for Russians and Greeks. We are connected with strong ties…

"… we already have there the utmost friendly population…"

Yes. For example, Vladimir Putin is the most popular of all politicians among the Serbs.

"… Europe will no longer be the prior direction in our foreign policy. For the first time a Russian leader will make his first trip not to the West but to the East. As you know Medvedev is expected to visit our strategic partners in Kazakhstan and China. .."

I think it is a very good development. Russia should do its best to develop as good relations with China as possible. West wouldn't like nothing more then some kind of conflict between you two. They will undoubtly try to create it.

This guy knows what he's talking about. I'm sure all diaspora serbs here will denounce him.

These are the real Trojan horses inside Serbian politics today...

They will oppose everything that prevents slavery for the Serbians

Despite several European countries to support Serbia there is quite little doubt that only one state is strongly motivated to see a strong Serbia. But it's a bad luck that such people like the LDP protesters can see only what they are interested to see. Those people can't poison our relations for in Russia we also have such a Fifth Column to feed up from the same souces as the LDP & Co.

Russia too made a mistake when we gave a moral support for Tadic to run for the President. Otherwise there would be no problems neither with the Parliamentals nor with the NIS 51% share. Russia should better work with Kostunica as the only weak chain in the further coalition. Russia should not any longer keep it secret what plannings do we have for Serbia in every sphere. We should not remain so passive when the other side adds new cheese to the trap they prepared for the Serbs. Russia have much more free cash than the EU-US duet with our economy unable to absorb even half of those money. So it's high time for us to tell the Serbs what we can really do for them. Then even the LDP will split for after all the are also Serbs.

I hate people like Jovanovic. Where is the man's dignity, where is his pride? I would be ashamed to be like him, he sits whenever the Yanks or the Eurocrats tell him to do... It's sad if not anything else.

I really have no strong opinions one way or the other over the Russia energy deal, but I did have to snicker a little yesterday when walking past the big SRS rally held in Trg Republike and hearing Toma repeatedly say that "Serbia is not for sale", knowing he was one of the biggest supporters in giving Moscow nearly all of Serbia's energy industries.

Down with Stalin! Down with Lenin!

God, how stupid is that, to undermine Tadic 2 days before the election...?! I mean who's afraid of the Russian politics from the time of Stalin? If you ask me I am not because it's long over with and will never return.
And someone so enlightened and world-wise like Jovanovic
seems still having a lots of prejudices from some dark-era's, exactly those which he claims we all must leave behind in his liberal blubber.

Contemporary Russia is Serbian economic partner and only those with the poisoned paranoid mind imagine we risk 'iron curtain' because of the gas pipeline deal.

And last but not the least,to point to some Jovanovic politics paradoxes: exactly
Kosovo and ratification became the stone for him to stumble upon.Hey, I thought he believes Kosovo is 'gone'; and if it is why bother, why call it in any way? Why undermine your natural political partner because of Kosovo, ratification at this very moment?

Instead of what he is doing he should have of course tried to help Tadic win the election.
For any price.

For now, he seems to me more like a poet than a politician with the focus.

And all his errors in judgement- for what a price!
'Gubernija' is just around the corner....

Just sign it already Mr. Tadic!
It could have been better negotiated like 50/50 stake and a couple more money on Nis, but you know the russians, they don't back down. So sign it and also nobody can say anything anymore that you are going against Russian interests just to please the west.

I agree with Adrian
Sign this contract before the elections as you have done with SAA we all know that it is a bargain for the Russian but maybe they will decide to put some money in your country

Rote Kapella,

"… in Russia we also have such a Fifth Column to feed up from the same souces as the LDP & Co. .."

Exactly. LDP&CO, (Tadic, Sutanovac, Dinkic, Kandic, Biserko…), are our Ponomaryov, Roginsky, Novodvorskaya, Minkin, Kasparov … Empire use same tactics against both of us.

"… Russia … not … secret … plannings … for Serbia in every sphere. … not remain so passive when the other side adds new cheese to the trap they prepared for the Serbs. Russia have much more free cash than the EU-US duet … high time … to tell the Serbs what we can really do for them. Then even the LDP will split for after all the are also Serbs…"

Nicely sad. A lot of Serb supporters of the western orientation are still not aware of the changed geo-political situation. Many of them are actually very angry at the West, but they are worried about possible new war with a NATO, DU pollution, isolation, poverty, hardships…. They are influenced by media in western hands. If they could clearly see possible alternatives, big part of them would vote differently.

"… Contemporary Russia is Serbian economic partner and only those with the poisoned paranoid mind imagine we risk 'iron curtain' because of the gas pipeline deal. .."

Veki, yes, there is no ideological confrontation any more, no curtains any more. As for Russian - Serb ties, they are much deeper then changing ideologies….

Stevan, Rote Kapella,

I know many people on this forum haven't realised that the Cold War is over, but I think it's time to do as both Russian and Western leaders have done and move out of this view of the world as caught in a sort of binary, us-vs-them opposition. Believe me when I say that Russia WANTS Serbia in the EU. Russia is not the Communist Soviet Union that seems to nest in your minds - it too is committed to free markets, multilateralism and cooperation insofar as it doesn't oppose its national interests. A Serbia in the EU would also bring the bloc and Russia closer together. Serbia would increase Russia's influence across the European continent.

Has Russia ever once implied that it does not want Serbia to join the European Union??

No.

Serbia is hence not choosing between the EU and Russia. Russia and the EU are not mutually exclusive. Serbia needs both, will have both and indeed can only choose both - if only with time.

Russia is growing stronger - true - but why should that mean that the EU is waning? The EU, too, if you haven't noticed, is growing stronger. They're growing stronger, not at each other's expense, but BECAUSE OF each other's successes. Who is buying Russian oil? Who is buying EU manufactures and technology?

Serbia needs to wake up and understand that she no longer can play Tito's game of turning Russia and the West against each other and then reap the spoils. She has to understand that Russia and the EU are economic partners and that most (if not all) of their interests, believe it or not, coincide.

Serbia is a key player in furthering that partnership.

Enough of these empty slogans inherited from Krushchev, Brezhnev and their likes!

Stevan

Dear Stevan ! I follow your comments here with each of them full of love and hope for Russia. It's not good for both of us that Russia is so busy with the recharging of the state power here. Now that political independence is no longer a problem the main stress is expected to be done at the economy. So Putin remains in the main stream. Hopefully in his speech today he will mention something important for the Serbs too. Just one sentence that we are ready to invest in Serbia upto 10 bln euro annually would change the situation drastically. So let's wait. Russia has got 2 days to make a gesture to support our backers in Serbia.

Good luck !
.

Martin

You know the only thing we need in Serbia is a friendly elite for we already have there the utmost friendly population. Under this condition it doesn't matter where Serbia will have membership. Even if it becomes a NATO member it will only mean we have an extra full stop vote inside. To say nothing of EU integration which can only bring new advantages for all sides involved. In this case Serbia could become an EU envoy to solve the most complicated things with Russia.

But you should know Russia is no longer satisfied with the existing relations with EU and big changes are expected here. One of them is already evident. Europe will no longer be the prior direction in our foreign policy. For the first time a Russian leader will make his first trip not to the West but to the East. As you know Medvedev is expected to visit our strategic partners in Kazakhstan an China. Thus Russia may stop knocking at the closed doors with 26 padlocks on it when there are so many open ones ready to welcome us.

Then it will be evident how urgent we need each other. It's a EU problem when any state can bar the cooperation just to solve it's own vendetta problems. First it was Poland and now Liethuania to revenge for the NORD STREAM and MAJEIKIAS PLANT. So we have nothing to do but to develop bilateral relations with Europe and Serbia may become our special project to prove that prosperity lives not only inside EU.
.

Crveni Vuk,

You say you hate but that you have no argument. Do you have anything apart from empty rethoric? Some argument about LDP's policies perhaps? Or is that needless in Serbia these days. Hatred is enough in itself?

Martin,

"… Cold War is over, … it's time to do as both Russian and Western leaders have done and move out of this view of the world…"

Russian leaders in the 90-'s did, but western didn't.

Are you familiar with a works of Zbigniew Brezinsky? The Project for the new American century? What do you think about official US military doctrine? Western foreign policy after the disappearance of East Block? NATO's changed role and never ending expansion? Preventive "wars? Development of "tactical" nuclear weapons and advocating their usage "preventively" even against countries that does not have nuclear weapons? Deliberate weakening of international order and misuse of international organizations for promotion and advancing own interests? Ever growing missile stockpiles that keep coming closer to Russian borders? Is that all just an expression of peaceful intentions? Friendliness towards Russia? Is that in the Russian interest? I don't think so.

"… Russia is not the Communist Soviet Union…"

No, it isn't. I am perfectly aware of that fact. Present conflict of interests between the West and Russia is not ideological any more. Ideologies and governments are changing relatively quickly, but geo - political interests are pretty permanent. These days, it is back to the good, old fashion fight for the territories, natural resources, markets, influence zones, dominance… Relations between the west and Russia are actually quite similar to what they used to be during XIX century and beginning of the XX century, until the First World War. (With exemption of wars, fortunately). It is a sort of an uneasy "partnership", with a some common interests but also many conflicting ones. West will, for example, still do everything they can to prevent Russian Navy to get an access to the warm water Mediteran ports, exactly what Britain prevented during the XIX century.

During the nineties, Russia made unpresented sacrifices in the search of an rapprochement with a West. It was a rare historical chance for the West to finally build a long lasting friendship with a Russians. To make them, friend, partner. Unfortunately, West was not interested. West doesn't want partnership, West prefer obedience. Opportunity was missed, greed prevailed. They interpreted temporary Russian crisis as a permanent weakness. They wanted to maximize their gains, thought it was a time to destroy Russia once and for all. Plans were made. Goal was to plunge Russia deep into the recession, poverty and chaos, amplify and exploit internal conflicts as a tool for disintegration of enormous Russian space in as many small, weak, banana republics as possible, with a Western puppets in the power. Easy to control and exploit. Very similar to what they have done to us. In western view, Russia was predestined to be used as raw material base for further expansion of the West.

Ideologies set aside, Russia is just much to big, independent and different for Western taste. It is also most powerful state of the Orthodox world, with an enormous potential prestige and influence on all Orthodox nations. It could use this influence to its advantage.

"… Russia WANTS Serbia in the EU…."

Hmm I don't know, not so sure, it depends on conditions I suppose, not for any price. One of the things which I miss the most in whole EU discussion not only in Serbia but also in EU itself is lack of clear picture what is EU exactly? What it stands for? Where does it will to go? I am, for my self, all for the cooperation.

I have to stop now, will continue later.

Rote Kapella,

"… comments here with each of them full of love and hope for Russia…"

Well, it is only natural. Regardless what happens, Serbs will always have a special soft spot for Russians and Greeks. We are connected with strong ties…

"… we already have there the utmost friendly population…"

Yes. For example, Vladimir Putin is the most popular of all politicians among the Serbs.

"… Europe will no longer be the prior direction in our foreign policy. For the first time a Russian leader will make his first trip not to the West but to the East. As you know Medvedev is expected to visit our strategic partners in Kazakhstan and China. .."

I think it is a very good development. Russia should do its best to develop as good relations with China as possible. West wouldn't like nothing more then some kind of conflict between you two. They will undoubtly try to create it.