Lithuania recognizes Kosovo

Thank you Lithuania!

I am wondering if Letonia recognized Kosova so I can have a great glass of wine with my Letonian friends.

Pitty that this recognition thing is cositng me a fortune. Living in UK, sharing office with South Corean, having American, German, Sweedish, Italian, French etc. friends ;))

I don't see it as a big difference. Now there are 19 EU countries that have recognized.
Even if Kosova joined UN the Serbs would still say, "yeah but Kosova...". Even so, I thank you Lithuania.

Thank you Lithuania. More will follow.

And in a side note to B92, I do not know if you are aware of this, but calling Kosova a Serbian Province, does not correspond with reality anymore. The only reality where such a term would be useful is the radical serb reality. I am dissaointed by your Milosevic-like behavior since Kosova became independent. You really went astray, from your former position as the beacon of reliable news in Serbia. Now your articles are almost unreadably pro-Serb.

Dear all

Bravo Lithuenia...

Somehow i dont find it hard to sense that the number of countries that have not yet recognised Kosovo is going somehow DOWN, day by day, week by month by month...

In a matter of weeks will reach 80 and in matter of months exceed 100...

Just wait and see...be patient...

(Talk to you in October)

In the meantime peace to all,

Cheers

thank you Lithuania!

Thank you Lithuania.

I believe the number of countries that recognized Kosova is 40 and not 39 as stated in the article!!!

But who is counting ... more recognitions are coming. Stay tuned!!!

I predict that by the end of May Kosova will be recognized by 55 countries!

By the end of the year it will be recognized by 135 countries.

Peace to you all!!!

B92, one small correction "After the declaration on May 17,..." it should be 'Feb 17.

Thank you Lithuania!!!

o great! from a corrupt sand dune in the pacific to the nazi celebrating Lithuanians, is this all the United Bluff of America can come up with?

To our Lithuanian friends;
I understand that your sponsors demanded this action and its another way to stick it to those nasty Commy Russians (even though only the Jews had more to do with the October Revolution than you – not that working people allover the world aren’t grateful for your contribution), but I am just wondering, how much of their support do you expect when the Russian 40% of your population uses the precedent of Kosovo to declare independence? So, NATO lead by the 5th Cavalry will battle to maintain your territorial integrity? Been watching Georgia lately? We reap what we sow. Good luck!

1) The neo-nazi issues are rather in Latvia, not Lithuania. Thank you Lithuania for having much less neo-nazi issues than your neighbor.

2) Thank you Florin and Dan to be the (only) Albanians here who consistantly spell the name of the country properly.

3) Thank you Ben for expressing such optimistic, wishful thinking! I know for sure, there are VERY FEW Lithuanians who would sit with Albanians at the same table, save to drink vine together. That would certainly change if Albanian attitude would mature. And if yes - that vine would not be Kartvellian, Portuguese, Spanish, Romanian, Argentinian, Moldavian vine by the way.

4) Thank you Peter for the link.

5) From the link:

a) "The Brazilian government will recognise the independence of Kosovo only if Serbia does."

b) "We view this illegal act as being in contradiction with international law. Proceeding from this, Azerbaijan's position is clear: it does not recognise [Kosovo's] independence"

c) Argentina will not recognize also because it "supports the principle of territorial integrity"

d) Foreign Minister of Georgia, Davit Bakradze, said on 18 February 2008 that Tbilisi would not recognise Kosovo's independence

e) It has been India's consistent position that the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries should be fully respected by all states

f) The Assembly of the Republic discussed the issue twice and parties agreed that Portugal should not recognise Kosovo for now

6) Thank you, Brazil, thank you, Azerbaijan, thank you, Argentina, thank you, Sakartvelo (Georgia), thank you, India, thank you Portugal. BTW: world's largest democracy is India, not USA. With all due respect to Lithuania...

7) World's largest moslem country is Indonesia. "Indonesia supports Serbia’s idea that the UN General Assembly asks for opinion from the International Court of Justice on the legality of declaration of independence by Kosovo"

Thank you, Indonesia

To all:

Here's a bar graph showing countries which have formally recognised so-called 'republic of Kosovo' as a function of time.


Legend is as follows:

Vertical axis represents no. of countries that have recognised on a particular day - represented by 'X's.

Horizontal axis is the time line. Look underneath a particular 'X', or column of 'X's to identify the date.

Example: those first 7 'X's siting one on top of each other means that 7 countries recognised UDI on the 18th of Feb, then 2 countries on the 19th etc.


Have split the graph into 2 sections because of width constraints.

Disregard all the dots & commas. Had to use them to get the spacing right (ariel font uses variable width fields).


39 countries have recognised up to May 06.

Feb 17 - Apr 03

I
I
I X
I X
I X
I X
I X_XX.........,........,........'........,.........X
I XXXX_..........'.......XX..........,..........XX......,.......X
I XXXXX_X_XXXX___XX_X__________XXX____X__X______

--------.---------.---------.---------day---------.---------.---------.--------
1_12________20_______01________12________2330_0
78901234567891234567890123456789012345678901123

--------.--------.--------.---------month---------.--------.--------.--------
2____.......___23_______......._______......._______34_4


Apr 04 - May 06

I
I
I
I_____.......____X_____XX________X

--------.---------.---------.---------day---------.---------.---------.--------
0_____01________12________230____0
3456789012345678901234567890123456

--------.--------.--------.---------month---------.--------.--------.--------
4_______.......____......._______45____5

Source is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reaction_to_the_2008_Kosovo_declaration_of_independence


26 recognitions in the 1st month/wave, 9 in the 2nd, & now 4 in the 3rd.

Trend is obviously not linear - ie: not a straight line - as some like 'PRN' above might like to believe.

But rather appears to be a series of bell curves (waves:)), with ever decreasing maxima, with ever increasing spacing. This points to a finite upper limit on the total number of recognitions on the order of about 50 (2N).

regards

Lithuania insults Serbia.

Countries should listen a bit more to what Serbia has to say on the matter.

"26 recognitions in the 1st month/wave, 9 in the 2nd, & now 4 in the 3rd.

Trend is obviously not linear - ie: not a straight line - as some like 'PRN' above might like to believe.

But rather appears to be a series of bell curves (waves:)), with ever decreasing maxima, with ever increasing spacing. This points to a finite upper limit on the total number of recognitions on the order of about 50 (2N).

regards
(peter, sydney, 6 May 2008 18:12)

Good point Peter, just a note though. You might want to dumb your language down a bit, I don't think that our "friends" understand you.
(Crveni Vuk, 6 May 2008 20:01)"

Actually, The line seems to be Positively Skewed, and there is only one BELL curve (and that signifies a normal distribution). You can make the argument that the distribution is Leptokurtic (Positively Skewed, with a Kurtosis in the beginning)..and that is slowly moving toward a platokurtic distribution.


So, Crveni VUK, as an Albanian ( with a PhD from the U.S.A), Peter has a fallacious understanding of the measures of central tendency and probability ditribution.

Thanks Lithuania

To Peter, Sydney

wow! youve got to much time on your habds my friend! is that all you do during your day? you sound angry and full of hatred! you sound worse than Nikolic... If you really are from Australia then i really do have to say this: Thank You Australia

Saudi Arabia is next and that should be about it. You might get a few other islands in Micronesia but that will be about it folks. Hope you enjoyed the party.

"The GDP of the countries who recognized Kosova is approximately 75% of all world GDP."
(Shukri Gashi, 7 May 2008 09:50)

Shukri,

Since you put a number out there and I am bored at the moment, I went to the CIA world "factbook" (can't accuse them of pro-serb bias) to see what they would say.
I picked 10 countries I know do not support Kosovo independence.... figures are in billions of 2007 dollars for GDP (purchasing power parity)

Brazil 1,838
China 7,043
Russia 2,076
India 2,965
South Africa 467
Indonesia 845
Vietnam 222
Greece 326
Spain 1,362
Argentina 523
TOTAL 17,667

Same web-site says World GDP total is 65,820, so the above 10 countries ALONE make up 26.9% of world GDP.

If someone is really bored out there and they total up the exact figures for all countries for and against Kosovo independence, I'm thinking it would be more like 50/50 when it comes to $$$ of GDP.

Here are the figures for some more relevant countries....

Serbia 57 (and they don't count Kosovo in the number)
Albania 20

Serbia also has a faster growth rate (7%) than Albania (5%) last year.

Moral of the story: Serbia is much more powerful than Albania, so when all the foreign elements leave the balkans and it comes down to just "us" vs "you" ... "you" are in big trouble.

My advice would be quit boasting about how strong your "allies" are and get serious about making accomodations Serbia can live with.

PS - For those that want a laugh, note the CIA (Albania's "ally") also adds this wrt Albania's economy:-

$19.76 billion
note: Albania has a large gray economy that may be as large as 50% of official GDP (2007 est.)

No other country I looked up had this extra little comment so explicitly stated with the number!

Thank you Lithuania! Soon Macedonia and Montenegro will join you! :)

Lithuania is the 39th country to officially recognize Kosova's independence. Malaysia is the 40th, but has not done so officially: the recognition process has started, however. Malaysia did send the Kosovar government a letter congratulating them on independence, but an official acceptance is still to be decided on by the government.

Peter from Sydney, once Serbian elections are over and the Kosova constitution goes into effect in June there will be another wave of recognitions. Wait and see.

peter:

You do understand the big wave will come after Serbian elections and more after Kosovas constitution takes effect on June 15th.

If Radicals win, be prepered for minimum 60+ states in less then a month, however if democrats take it home will take a year to get that number.

Thank you Lithuania!!

One thing is absolutely certain: the next President here in the US is going to have to cut troop placements somewhere and he is going to want to distance himself from the actions of his predecessor. The only place we can draw down our military forces safely is in Europe. Kosovo is going to be cut loose and abandoned next November and the US government will simply treat it as an internal Serbian police matter. The Kosovan leadership will be lucky to get refugee status. That's the price of friendship with the USA.

woooow... the 26th wave or so has just begun! :)

I can´t wait to read prn´s words in october...

Hope dies last, as they say...

we live in europe and not in asia or africa and most european countrys have recognized kosovos independence more will follow soon.... important is what european countrys say and not countrys from africa or asia!

Lithuanians were not firm suporters of the Nazis. But as aruel most nations in Eastern Europe rather supported than opposed the nazis! Rrom the Fins to the Albanian, this was the rule! Indeed only the Poles, the Serbs and the Greeks gave the nazis a resistence worth mentioning! Why was that. Surely no because they were all evil! Most people in Easter Europe simply detasted the post World Word I borders and feared communism. When they realized what Hitler really was, it was too late. but that is history! It doesn't matter anymore! For a country today the fact on which side it was in WWII is as important as on which side it was during the 30 Years War!

It is possible that US wil cut troops (they don't have many anyhow) but this will not be done previous creation of capable deffence forces of Kosova. This sounds prefectly ok with me, and to you?
(ben, 7 May 2008 18:58)

That would be fine if you had any money or resources to pay for weapons or an army, but you don't. The USA has been planning to strip Iraq to the bone for the new army we are fixing up for them. That's why there was such an uproar over the completely legitimate weapons purchases which Iraq made in Serbia. The US military has poisoned the very soil of Kosovo, for thousands of years, with illegal depleted uranium munitions. That uranium is all powder and dust; you will never get rid of it. George Soros and his crooked friends are cheaply buying up everything even remotely of value in Kosovo and Serbia. The Kosovars, both Albanians and Serbs, are going to wake up stripped to their shorts and realize that they've been screwed and not even a kiss to remember.

we live in europe and not in asia or africa and most european countrys have recognized kosovos independence more will follow soon.... important is what european countrys say and not countrys from africa or asia!
(dan, 6 May 2008 23:33)

Then the recognition from the US doesn't mean a thing, according to your logic.

To all:

Here's a bar graph showing countries which have formally recognised so-called 'republic of Kosovo' as a function of time.


Legend is as follows:

Vertical axis represents no. of countries that have recognised on a particular day - represented by 'X's.

Horizontal axis is the time line. Look underneath a particular 'X', or column of 'X's to identify the date.

Example: those first 7 'X's siting one on top of each other means that 7 countries recognised UDI on the 18th of Feb, then 2 countries on the 19th etc.


Have split the graph into 2 sections because of width constraints.

Disregard all the dots & commas. Had to use them to get the spacing right (ariel font uses variable width fields).


39 countries have recognised up to May 06.

Feb 17 - Apr 03

I
I
I X
I X
I X
I X
I X_XX.........,........,........'........,.........X
I XXXX_..........'.......XX..........,..........XX......,.......X
I XXXXX_X_XXXX___XX_X__________XXX____X__X______

--------.---------.---------.---------day---------.---------.---------.--------
1_12________20_______01________12________2330_0
78901234567891234567890123456789012345678901123

--------.--------.--------.---------month---------.--------.--------.--------
2____.......___23_______......._______......._______34_4


Apr 04 - May 06

I
I
I
I_____.......____X_____XX________X

--------.---------.---------.---------day---------.---------.---------.--------
0_____01________12________230____0
3456789012345678901234567890123456

--------.--------.--------.---------month---------.--------.--------.--------
4_______.......____......._______45____5

Source is: [link]


26 recognitions in the 1st month/wave, 9 in the 2nd, & now 4 in the 3rd.

Trend is obviously not linear - ie: not a straight line - as some like 'PRN' above might like to believe.

But rather appears to be a series of bell curves (waves:)), with ever decreasing maxima, with ever increasing spacing. This points to a finite upper limit on the total number of recognitions on the order of about 50 (2N).

regards
(peter, sydney, 6 May 2008 18:12)

Good point Peter, just a note though. You might want to dumb your language down a bit, I don't think that our "friends" understand you.

peter, sydney,

Peter , you have spoiled the whole witch party with your statistics ! Though it was a new sight at the events the general trend is quite evident. The US won't be able to to force to the recognition more than 50 puppets for other states are free from such an influence.

This people to have a joy of Lietova and last week about Burkina-Faso remind me the nazi to celebrate the death of F.D.Roosevelt and believing it was a sign of an escape to come. So let them go on praising each other with this expected micro success. We shall live and see what will come out of all this.

What are people able to do..,just to "eliminate" competition - in BASKET!!

Well,we will win you Lituania!

And we will put one Kosovo-Albanian in Serbia team..,just to remmember you!!

To Ataman

Regarding your comment i just want to tell you that lithuanians are more close to us that to you , i drink Wine and i have lithuanian wife we will have baby soon and i will name baby ILIR. I gues you recognize this name .love lithuania and thank you.

Ben don't over-estimate the military capabilities of the KLA or the albanians in general. If it was freedom you so much sought than you should have fought on your own rather than manipulate massacres to bring international media to your cause. If you're not prepared to die for freedom you will never have it.Look at the Tamil Tigers, Hezbollah, ETA, Chechens etc all with greivances and they fight tooth and nail with no-one to back them. They have legit claims to independence. The KLA and miltant Albanians have conned and cheated their people and you will get nothing in return but more suffering.

'Crveni Vuk' And 'Peter' from Sydney

Thank you for your precise 'linear' graphs, even though there was no need to try to intimidate people with simple mathematics, but if thats how you pursue your debates then I pitty you.

How can you affiliate mathematics with international politics when you say there is a trend? Is there any rationality in your statements? There is no such thing as a trend in international politics.

How many years after Croatia declared its independence did Serbia recognise the UDI? The Process is a Random process since the number of states which have not recognised the independence remaining is not proportional to the rate of recognitions.

The fact is, whether the recognition process takes 1, 2 or 7 years; there are no issues for the state Kosova, because we have our independence.

Dear Peter (Sydney),

Your maths is getting complicated for nothing...

You fail to include the surprise dimension...just as suprise (for some) as independence itself...

Remember life is full of surprises...and the wheel is turning...and moreover time is in our side...

The only surprise is that why they recognized so late.

This small state is all that's bad in this world and all that's good for the Neo-Cons...

Regarding your comment i just want to tell you that lithuanians are more close to us that to you , i drink Wine and i have lithuanian wife we will have baby soon and i will name baby ILIR. I gues you recognize this name .love lithuania and thank you.
(Milaim, 7 May 2008 12:38)

Congratulation to the enlargement of your family, but the baby won't be any more Illyrian than Condi Rice. But it's nice to have legends and fairy-tales.

If you are Illyrians, than we are Shumerians. But there is much more evidence suggesting Shumerian connection of Hungarians than Illyrian connection of Albanians.

Thank you very much Lithuania

yes, i will add my thanks to lithuania. it is a wonderful and validating feeling, and each time i am so grateful. i must say that all of the warnings and fear-mongering that we hear with each recognition is... bizarre, though i do understand that it hurts the feelings of the nationalists... sorry, again, but we are on opposite sides.

by the way, i have many times warned about these ubiquitous accusations of "nazis." people in glass houses should really not throw so many stones -- catch my drift?

as for b-92's language ("UDI of the albanians"), i have made this same criticism many times. how a once vital and progressive media now uses the language of the extremists... i hope that sensible and progressive journalists there take heed of such criticisms, but i am not especially encouraged.

still, i do believe that ultimately we can all live together in peace and harmony, somehow; just call me a cockeyed optimist.

roberto from frisco (CA)

For your curiosity.
The GDP of the countries who recognized Kosova is approximately 75% of all world GDP. This is the quality of recognition. As for the number of population of the states who recognized Kosova it is approximately 1,200,000,000.
So mr. Peter from Sidney, I think those facts are enough for you to understand that this is an one direction way and to leave illusions forever.

Freind

The reason why Poles in Lithuania speak Russian and not Polish is not because they are "more loyal to Russian culture", it's just that since Lithuania became a part of the USSR, Polish was not taught in any schools (to my knowledge it was banned), only recently has Polish been introduced, but you can't erase 60 years of Russification overnight.

"Ari:

Have made no claims to being a mathematician - but is obvious to me that barring any external forcing, recognitions are petering out, with total number of recognitions tending to a limit. Figure of 50 seems about right for a time period of about a year.

Notice you did not mention this.

There is indeed a trend, & you do not have to have a doctorate to see it.

Regards
(peter, sydney, 7 May 2008 16:44)"

I was not disputing the trend; I was disputing your model, as well as your terminology.

Secondly, In order to get a better assessment of the distribution, one must employ a time series analysis( in order to do this, one must have a point A (beggining--in this case Feb. 17) and point B ( in this case we can include May 7).

the problem with this design is that the process of recognition is still ongoing, and as a result, this design sufferes from temporal problems. So, in this case, we cannot generalize on the process of recognition, YET. It would be a problem with external validity.
The good thing about a time series analysis is that it controls for the "spikes" in the distribution. For example, the number of recognition increased in the first weeks of the declaration, decreased towards the middle, increased again after the unrest in Mitrovica...and we can make a statistical assumption that it should increase after May 11.
the distribution would look simething like this:
xxxxxxxoxxxxxxoxxxxxo

where o is the spike(external/internal event)

In other words, we cannot infer, statistically, that there is an ongoing trend--as it would be an invalid generalization. we could make an educated guess that the frequency of recognitions has slowed down.

To all:

with regard to previous post (#9), made a minor mistake - got the spacing wrong for the 'Lithuania' recognition event. So here is again:


Apr 04 - May 06

I
I
I
I_____.......____X_____XX___________X

--------.---------.---------.---------day---------.---------.---------.--------
0_____01________12________230____0
3456789012345678901234567890123456

--------.--------.--------.---------month---------.--------.--------.--------
4_______.......____......._______45____5

For those few who might be interested, cannot repeat a particular character more than 10 times apart from the 'space' character which cannot be repeated at all. And '.'s are 4 pixels wide, while numbers, 'X's & '_'s are 7. In previous post, forgot to allow for the '.'s on that particular line.


Mark (Shqype):
> Peter from Sydney, once Serbian elections are over and the Kosova constitution goes into effect in June there will be another wave of recognitions. Wait and see.

Perhaps though personally I doubt it as believe that only some sort of 'unusual' event will alter the trend - time will tell.

With regard to your comment about Malaysia & official recognition, is really a semantic issue & until & if it actually does so, cannot be regarded as the '40th' country to recognise.

What I find curious about this issue is that no-one actually picked up on it until just a couple of weeks ago when their foreign minister made that statement in their media - one cannot but help to wonder if there are others cases where mistakes have been made in translation.


Pejoni:
Your compatriot above made much the same comment & my response is therefore the same. Will just point out that all I have done in my previous post was to graphically display the data. Trend is not of my making - it just is. So as 'Mark (Shqype)' has said - will have to wait & see.


spunky:
> wow! youve got to much time on your habds my friend!
Sometimes yes & sometimes no.. but it is my time.

> If you really are from Australia then i really do have to say this: Thank You Australia

Yes, Australia was one of the first to recognise.. & it did not have it's 'arm twisted' by the US.

US did not have to as Australia's foreign policy is largely governed by the realities of the ANZUS alliance (Australia, New Zealand & US). So if the issue does not matter to Australia, it will go along with the US.

For instance, we were one of the 'handful' of countries that initially formed the 'alliance of the willing' in Iraq.

Pity our stance wasn't more principled - such as that of our smaller neighbour, New Zealand.

> you sound angry and full of hatred! you sound worse than Nikolic...

Suggest you re-read my post above. Cannot see any anger &/or hatred there. Perhaps what you really see is a reflection of your own personality when you attempt to ascribe such to others.

Or perhaps you are simply trying to 'shoot the messenger'. Seems to be 'another trend' that I have noticed here.

Once again, all I have done above is to present the data.

regards to all

Being Lithuanian I feel very ashamed that it came so late and it probably down to our politicians with whom ordinary Lithuanians are sick and tired. As probably you do not know that recognition was approved only after a second hearing. As soon as Kosovo declared independence officials down here said that recognition procedure do not require any urgency so it should be achieved following ordinary procedures, e.i in two weeks time. But it shouldn't! And what really made me heave, that the first hearing came after a month and a half or so. And here they failed to recognize Kosovo, saying text requires some corrections and postpoing the decision for another month. God have mercy on them I thought as another stoopid thing was that some parliamentarians simply celebrated a birthday of their fellow member and even do not participated in the hearing making it imposible to pass the bill even if others would wanted to go forth with it. Some say that it was only because Lithuanian business wanted to open some business councils in Serbia at the time and it would be very neglectful on their part to angry Serbia.
As I have read other comments here I want to add someting here. First, Lithuania does not have 40% of Russian population. Minorities in Lithuania make up no more than 20% and from 50-60% of them historically are Polish. The rest are 35% are Russians. Other thing is that big part of Polish people treat Russian as their first language and they are loyal more to Russian culture rather than the Lithuanian or even Polish. Second, do not buy Russian point of view that Latvia in any way embraces neo-nazi movements. It is complete nonsense, similar to that of Americans, who said that Sadam was very good friend to Osama.

Mirsad UK:

Intimidation?

All above is, is a graphical representation of the data. How you view it is up to you, but graph speaks for itself.

I can see a trend & have pointed it out. Others would agree with this. If you choose not to do so, then that is your affair. Free world.. right?

And until there is agreement between all parties, pseudo-state will never be truly independent.


PRN:
> You fail to include the surprise dimension...just as suprise (for some) as independence itself...

Actually, did mention it above. Regurgitaing:
>Perhaps though personally I doubt it as believe that only some sort of 'unusual' event will alter the trend - time will tell.


Shukri Gashi:
> The GDP of the countries who recognized Kosova is approximately 75% of all world GDP.

Might have to revise those figures in a few years time - Latest 'National Geographic' issue was all about China. In there, they are forecasting that China will surpass that of the US not in 50 years as have read previously, but in 10.

> As for the number of population of the states who recognized Kosova it is approximately 1,200,000,000

And population of world is over 6 billion, which means that less than 20% of world population has recognised UDI. Would stick to 1st comparison if I were you.


Ari:

Have made no claims to being a mathematician - but is obvious to me that barring any external forcing, recognitions are petering out, with total number of recognitions tending to a limit. Figure of 50 seems about right for a time period of about a year.

Notice you did not mention this.

There is indeed a trend, & you do not have to have a doctorate to see it.

Regards

(David MacGuire, 7 May 2008 17:11)

It is possible that US wil cut troops (they don't have many anyhow) but this will not be done previous creation of capable deffence forces of Kosova. This sounds prefectly ok with me, and to you?

with its significant population loss (into EU ironically) and significant muslim population growth, I wonder whom the Russians will consider a friend in 2050?

Anyone that cant see that Nikolic is looking to be the next Milosevic of Serbia really needs their eyes checked.

To Pole-axe

“Look at the Tamil Tigers, Hezbollah, ETA, Chechens etc all with greivances and they fight tooth and nail with no-one to back them”.

This kind of non sense point of view of course doesn’t deserve any reply but anyone in respect to the fact that the things should be clear, here is the answer.

Tamil Tigers, Hezbollah, ETA, Chechens are classified as terrorist organization from USA and EU while KLA WAS NOT. Moreover, the crimes committed in Kosova from Serbian & Co Slavic criminals such as macedonian, russians, ukrainians etc. brought the international community to our cause and not Albanians.

Endri, Albania

Racist! Many Slavic countries make up that International Community (countries that have even recognized Kosovo, like Poland, Slovenia, Croatia and Bulgaria, not to mention other peace keepers that have participated in humanitarian missions in Kosovo, including Russians and Ukrainians), how dare you call us criminals???

BTW. I know the Serbs call Albanians criminals all the time here, but that is because they hate them and it is nationalism that many European states have towards each other, but Albanians hating all Slavs, including those that have helped them is just pure, unfounded racism.

Peter Sudyka,

I don't think Endri was saying that he hated all Slavs. I agree that such a viewpoint is clear discrimination and similar to how the Serbs view Albanians. But, most Albanians don't feel that way, and I don't think that's what Endri meant either.

The Serbs and Russians obviously share a Slavic Orthodox culture and for that connection alone the Slavs are mentioned. I personally respect Polish and Croatian people: they're generally good, hardworking people and the Albanians appreciate their support of Kosova.

However, most of the Balkan Slavs seem to be on the same page when it comes to hatred, discrimination, human rights abuses, etc. etc. That is where the resentment lies, not with all Slavs themselves!

To Peter Sydka:

By calling me racist you clearly show in the first place a negative toward Albanians although strictly speaking as Polish you have nothing to do with this issue, Kosova problem. Secondly you obviously have a problem of understanding on my comment and I suggest you to read it carefully.

If you have a look at the commentary above mine you will see “If it was freedom you so much sought than you should have fought on your own rather than manipulate massacres to bring international media to your cause.” The commenter Pole-axe suggests that we didn’t fight on our own. Instead according to him everything was manipulated…..

I didn’t say that the Slavic countries/people are criminals. „Moreover, the crimes committed in Kosova from Serbian & Co Slavic criminals such as Macedonian, Russians, Ukrainians etc. brought the international community to our cause and not Albanians.” This part of commentary suggests that in the war with Serbian forces were a lot of mercenaries such as Russians, Macedonians, and Ukrainians etc. which committed crimes together with Serbian paramilitaries (not Russian, Macedonians and Ukrainians in general). Moreover I never called any nation criminals as you with your Serbian friends repeat constantly about Albanians….

I DON’T hate any people based on race, religion or whatever including Serbs. Only the fact of trying to play the role of victims (Serbs) in the face of international community is ironic. Crimes were committed by both sides however the consequences of the action can not be compared with the action itself.

PS. A part of my previous commentary was cut down.

That would be fine if you had any money or resources to pay for weapons or an army, but you don't.

(Dr David MacGuire, 8 May 2008 04:55)


Ben don't over-estimate the military capabilities of the KLA or the albanians in general. If it was freedom you so much sought than you should have fought on your own rather than manipulate massacres to bring international media to your cause. If you're not prepared to die for freedom you will never have it.Look at the Tamil Tigers, Hezbollah, ETA, Chechens etc[...]
(Pole-axe, 8 May 2008 09:29)

[...]I know the Serbs call Albanians criminals all the time here, but that is because they hate them and it is nationalism that many European states have towards each other, but Albanians hating all Slavs, including those that have helped them is just pure, unfounded racism.
(Peter Sudyka, 8 May 2008 21:43)

David: that’s true. Our resources are limited but this is the price to pay for freedom and dignity and we will. Albania did preserved here integrity in much more difficult times, pity that instead of choosing teh right strategy- aligning with NATO that would've cost much less it choose the self-isolation.

Anyhow the contribution of Albania and NATO umbrella might play a role in teh stability in Kosova as teh latter did for the entire Europe during the cold war. The most effective strategy for the stability of Kosova and the region would be the true democracy in Serbia- but we cannot rely our safety on this hope moreover when the nationalist forces in Serbia are backed by obscurantist forces in Moscow.

Pole-axe: you should note that the Serbian position on the first appearance of KLA was that it is ‘Serbian internal affair of public order’ and in 1997/98 tried to fight back with the lightly armed Police and special units of the Army. Guess what happened: according to all observes KLA was controlling nearly 50% of Kosova and during the night only the urban areas were under Serbian control. Than Serbia had to bring the heavy armed units of the Army and massacres happened- that Endy described.

In other note that Albania was perfectly able to preserve here integrity facing much richer 25M Yugoslavia without benefiting of any defense umbrella like NATO or Warsaw pact. Actually it was able to make some troubles in Kosova too.

Besides Pole-axe, you mentioned all terrorist organizations who have won nothing, so I feel no envy towards them at all.

Peter: you say, “I know the Serbs call Albanians criminals all the time here, but that is because they hate them and it is nationalism…” and than on the Albanian side you use the expression racism. Can you pls explain why the Serbian side is not racist in you opinion.

Anyhow, Albanians do not hate Slavs at all, actually in Kosova I heard the best words for the Polish solders that are deployed there.

But you cannot deny the fact that the biggest support that Serbia is and had historically is from the Slavic nations, aside Russia, see the position of the ‘concern’ of breaching the international law of Czech Republic- as the UK, France, Germany etc are governed by charlatans and irresponsible people.

The so called Kosova “issue” exists because Russia wants it not because there is really any issus furthermore in the XXI century in the middle of Europe, massacred just 9 years ago. Hence you cannot pretend that ppl feel a distant towards this culture.

Thank you Lithuania!

I am wondering if Letonia recognized Kosova so I can have a great glass of wine with my Letonian friends.

Pitty that this recognition thing is cositng me a fortune. Living in UK, sharing office with South Corean, having American, German, Sweedish, Italian, French etc. friends ;))

Dear all

Bravo Lithuenia...

Somehow i dont find it hard to sense that the number of countries that have not yet recognised Kosovo is going somehow DOWN, day by day, week by month by month...

In a matter of weeks will reach 80 and in matter of months exceed 100...

Just wait and see...be patient...

(Talk to you in October)

In the meantime peace to all,

Cheers

Thank you Lithuania.

I believe the number of countries that recognized Kosova is 40 and not 39 as stated in the article!!!

But who is counting ... more recognitions are coming. Stay tuned!!!

I predict that by the end of May Kosova will be recognized by 55 countries!

By the end of the year it will be recognized by 135 countries.

Peace to you all!!!

I don't see it as a big difference. Now there are 19 EU countries that have recognized.
Even if Kosova joined UN the Serbs would still say, "yeah but Kosova...". Even so, I thank you Lithuania.

Thank you Lithuania. More will follow.

And in a side note to B92, I do not know if you are aware of this, but calling Kosova a Serbian Province, does not correspond with reality anymore. The only reality where such a term would be useful is the radical serb reality. I am dissaointed by your Milosevic-like behavior since Kosova became independent. You really went astray, from your former position as the beacon of reliable news in Serbia. Now your articles are almost unreadably pro-Serb.

thank you Lithuania!

B92, one small correction "After the declaration on May 17,..." it should be 'Feb 17.

Thank you Lithuania!!!

Thank you very much Lithuania

For your curiosity.
The GDP of the countries who recognized Kosova is approximately 75% of all world GDP. This is the quality of recognition. As for the number of population of the states who recognized Kosova it is approximately 1,200,000,000.
So mr. Peter from Sidney, I think those facts are enough for you to understand that this is an one direction way and to leave illusions forever.

o great! from a corrupt sand dune in the pacific to the nazi celebrating Lithuanians, is this all the United Bluff of America can come up with?

Thank you Lithuania! Soon Macedonia and Montenegro will join you! :)

Lithuania is the 39th country to officially recognize Kosova's independence. Malaysia is the 40th, but has not done so officially: the recognition process has started, however. Malaysia did send the Kosovar government a letter congratulating them on independence, but an official acceptance is still to be decided on by the government.

Peter from Sydney, once Serbian elections are over and the Kosova constitution goes into effect in June there will be another wave of recognitions. Wait and see.

peter:

You do understand the big wave will come after Serbian elections and more after Kosovas constitution takes effect on June 15th.

If Radicals win, be prepered for minimum 60+ states in less then a month, however if democrats take it home will take a year to get that number.

Thank you Lithuania!!

we live in europe and not in asia or africa and most european countrys have recognized kosovos independence more will follow soon.... important is what european countrys say and not countrys from africa or asia!

To all:

Here's a bar graph showing countries which have formally recognised so-called 'republic of Kosovo' as a function of time.


Legend is as follows:

Vertical axis represents no. of countries that have recognised on a particular day - represented by 'X's.

Horizontal axis is the time line. Look underneath a particular 'X', or column of 'X's to identify the date.

Example: those first 7 'X's siting one on top of each other means that 7 countries recognised UDI on the 18th of Feb, then 2 countries on the 19th etc.


Have split the graph into 2 sections because of width constraints.

Disregard all the dots & commas. Had to use them to get the spacing right (ariel font uses variable width fields).


39 countries have recognised up to May 06.

Feb 17 - Apr 03

I
I
I X
I X
I X
I X
I X_XX.........,........,........'........,.........X
I XXXX_..........'.......XX..........,..........XX......,.......X
I XXXXX_X_XXXX___XX_X__________XXX____X__X______

--------.---------.---------.---------day---------.---------.---------.--------
1_12________20_______01________12________2330_0
78901234567891234567890123456789012345678901123

--------.--------.--------.---------month---------.--------.--------.--------
2____.......___23_______......._______......._______34_4


Apr 04 - May 06

I
I
I
I_____.......____X_____XX________X

--------.---------.---------.---------day---------.---------.---------.--------
0_____01________12________230____0
3456789012345678901234567890123456

--------.--------.--------.---------month---------.--------.--------.--------
4_______.......____......._______45____5

Source is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reaction_to_the_2008_Kosovo_declaration_of_independence


26 recognitions in the 1st month/wave, 9 in the 2nd, & now 4 in the 3rd.

Trend is obviously not linear - ie: not a straight line - as some like 'PRN' above might like to believe.

But rather appears to be a series of bell curves (waves:)), with ever decreasing maxima, with ever increasing spacing. This points to a finite upper limit on the total number of recognitions on the order of about 50 (2N).

regards

To our Lithuanian friends;
I understand that your sponsors demanded this action and its another way to stick it to those nasty Commy Russians (even though only the Jews had more to do with the October Revolution than you – not that working people allover the world aren’t grateful for your contribution), but I am just wondering, how much of their support do you expect when the Russian 40% of your population uses the precedent of Kosovo to declare independence? So, NATO lead by the 5th Cavalry will battle to maintain your territorial integrity? Been watching Georgia lately? We reap what we sow. Good luck!

1) The neo-nazi issues are rather in Latvia, not Lithuania. Thank you Lithuania for having much less neo-nazi issues than your neighbor.

2) Thank you Florin and Dan to be the (only) Albanians here who consistantly spell the name of the country properly.

3) Thank you Ben for expressing such optimistic, wishful thinking! I know for sure, there are VERY FEW Lithuanians who would sit with Albanians at the same table, save to drink vine together. That would certainly change if Albanian attitude would mature. And if yes - that vine would not be Kartvellian, Portuguese, Spanish, Romanian, Argentinian, Moldavian vine by the way.

4) Thank you Peter for the link.

5) From the link:

a) "The Brazilian government will recognise the independence of Kosovo only if Serbia does."

b) "We view this illegal act as being in contradiction with international law. Proceeding from this, Azerbaijan's position is clear: it does not recognise [Kosovo's] independence"

c) Argentina will not recognize also because it "supports the principle of territorial integrity"

d) Foreign Minister of Georgia, Davit Bakradze, said on 18 February 2008 that Tbilisi would not recognise Kosovo's independence

e) It has been India's consistent position that the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries should be fully respected by all states

f) The Assembly of the Republic discussed the issue twice and parties agreed that Portugal should not recognise Kosovo for now

6) Thank you, Brazil, thank you, Azerbaijan, thank you, Argentina, thank you, Sakartvelo (Georgia), thank you, India, thank you Portugal. BTW: world's largest democracy is India, not USA. With all due respect to Lithuania...

7) World's largest moslem country is Indonesia. "Indonesia supports Serbia’s idea that the UN General Assembly asks for opinion from the International Court of Justice on the legality of declaration of independence by Kosovo"

Thank you, Indonesia

Saudi Arabia is next and that should be about it. You might get a few other islands in Micronesia but that will be about it folks. Hope you enjoyed the party.

"26 recognitions in the 1st month/wave, 9 in the 2nd, & now 4 in the 3rd.

Trend is obviously not linear - ie: not a straight line - as some like 'PRN' above might like to believe.

But rather appears to be a series of bell curves (waves:)), with ever decreasing maxima, with ever increasing spacing. This points to a finite upper limit on the total number of recognitions on the order of about 50 (2N).

regards
(peter, sydney, 6 May 2008 18:12)

Good point Peter, just a note though. You might want to dumb your language down a bit, I don't think that our "friends" understand you.
(Crveni Vuk, 6 May 2008 20:01)"

Actually, The line seems to be Positively Skewed, and there is only one BELL curve (and that signifies a normal distribution). You can make the argument that the distribution is Leptokurtic (Positively Skewed, with a Kurtosis in the beginning)..and that is slowly moving toward a platokurtic distribution.


So, Crveni VUK, as an Albanian ( with a PhD from the U.S.A), Peter has a fallacious understanding of the measures of central tendency and probability ditribution.

Thanks Lithuania

with its significant population loss (into EU ironically) and significant muslim population growth, I wonder whom the Russians will consider a friend in 2050?

Anyone that cant see that Nikolic is looking to be the next Milosevic of Serbia really needs their eyes checked.

yes, i will add my thanks to lithuania. it is a wonderful and validating feeling, and each time i am so grateful. i must say that all of the warnings and fear-mongering that we hear with each recognition is... bizarre, though i do understand that it hurts the feelings of the nationalists... sorry, again, but we are on opposite sides.

by the way, i have many times warned about these ubiquitous accusations of "nazis." people in glass houses should really not throw so many stones -- catch my drift?

as for b-92's language ("UDI of the albanians"), i have made this same criticism many times. how a once vital and progressive media now uses the language of the extremists... i hope that sensible and progressive journalists there take heed of such criticisms, but i am not especially encouraged.

still, i do believe that ultimately we can all live together in peace and harmony, somehow; just call me a cockeyed optimist.

roberto from frisco (CA)

Dear Peter (Sydney),

Your maths is getting complicated for nothing...

You fail to include the surprise dimension...just as suprise (for some) as independence itself...

Remember life is full of surprises...and the wheel is turning...and moreover time is in our side...

"The GDP of the countries who recognized Kosova is approximately 75% of all world GDP."
(Shukri Gashi, 7 May 2008 09:50)

Shukri,

Since you put a number out there and I am bored at the moment, I went to the CIA world "factbook" (can't accuse them of pro-serb bias) to see what they would say.
I picked 10 countries I know do not support Kosovo independence.... figures are in billions of 2007 dollars for GDP (purchasing power parity)

Brazil 1,838
China 7,043
Russia 2,076
India 2,965
South Africa 467
Indonesia 845
Vietnam 222
Greece 326
Spain 1,362
Argentina 523
TOTAL 17,667

Same web-site says World GDP total is 65,820, so the above 10 countries ALONE make up 26.9% of world GDP.

If someone is really bored out there and they total up the exact figures for all countries for and against Kosovo independence, I'm thinking it would be more like 50/50 when it comes to $$$ of GDP.

Here are the figures for some more relevant countries....

Serbia 57 (and they don't count Kosovo in the number)
Albania 20

Serbia also has a faster growth rate (7%) than Albania (5%) last year.

Moral of the story: Serbia is much more powerful than Albania, so when all the foreign elements leave the balkans and it comes down to just "us" vs "you" ... "you" are in big trouble.

My advice would be quit boasting about how strong your "allies" are and get serious about making accomodations Serbia can live with.

PS - For those that want a laugh, note the CIA (Albania's "ally") also adds this wrt Albania's economy:-

$19.76 billion
note: Albania has a large gray economy that may be as large as 50% of official GDP (2007 est.)

No other country I looked up had this extra little comment so explicitly stated with the number!

Mirsad UK:

Intimidation?

All above is, is a graphical representation of the data. How you view it is up to you, but graph speaks for itself.

I can see a trend & have pointed it out. Others would agree with this. If you choose not to do so, then that is your affair. Free world.. right?

And until there is agreement between all parties, pseudo-state will never be truly independent.


PRN:
> You fail to include the surprise dimension...just as suprise (for some) as independence itself...

Actually, did mention it above. Regurgitaing:
>Perhaps though personally I doubt it as believe that only some sort of 'unusual' event will alter the trend - time will tell.


Shukri Gashi:
> The GDP of the countries who recognized Kosova is approximately 75% of all world GDP.

Might have to revise those figures in a few years time - Latest 'National Geographic' issue was all about China. In there, they are forecasting that China will surpass that of the US not in 50 years as have read previously, but in 10.

> As for the number of population of the states who recognized Kosova it is approximately 1,200,000,000

And population of world is over 6 billion, which means that less than 20% of world population has recognised UDI. Would stick to 1st comparison if I were you.


Ari:

Have made no claims to being a mathematician - but is obvious to me that barring any external forcing, recognitions are petering out, with total number of recognitions tending to a limit. Figure of 50 seems about right for a time period of about a year.

Notice you did not mention this.

There is indeed a trend, & you do not have to have a doctorate to see it.

Regards

One thing is absolutely certain: the next President here in the US is going to have to cut troop placements somewhere and he is going to want to distance himself from the actions of his predecessor. The only place we can draw down our military forces safely is in Europe. Kosovo is going to be cut loose and abandoned next November and the US government will simply treat it as an internal Serbian police matter. The Kosovan leadership will be lucky to get refugee status. That's the price of friendship with the USA.

To Pole-axe

“Look at the Tamil Tigers, Hezbollah, ETA, Chechens etc all with greivances and they fight tooth and nail with no-one to back them”.

This kind of non sense point of view of course doesn’t deserve any reply but anyone in respect to the fact that the things should be clear, here is the answer.

Tamil Tigers, Hezbollah, ETA, Chechens are classified as terrorist organization from USA and EU while KLA WAS NOT. Moreover, the crimes committed in Kosova from Serbian & Co Slavic criminals such as macedonian, russians, ukrainians etc. brought the international community to our cause and not Albanians.

woooow... the 26th wave or so has just begun! :)

I can´t wait to read prn´s words in october...

Hope dies last, as they say...

To all:

Here's a bar graph showing countries which have formally recognised so-called 'republic of Kosovo' as a function of time.


Legend is as follows:

Vertical axis represents no. of countries that have recognised on a particular day - represented by 'X's.

Horizontal axis is the time line. Look underneath a particular 'X', or column of 'X's to identify the date.

Example: those first 7 'X's siting one on top of each other means that 7 countries recognised UDI on the 18th of Feb, then 2 countries on the 19th etc.


Have split the graph into 2 sections because of width constraints.

Disregard all the dots & commas. Had to use them to get the spacing right (ariel font uses variable width fields).


39 countries have recognised up to May 06.

Feb 17 - Apr 03

I
I
I X
I X
I X
I X
I X_XX.........,........,........'........,.........X
I XXXX_..........'.......XX..........,..........XX......,.......X
I XXXXX_X_XXXX___XX_X__________XXX____X__X______

--------.---------.---------.---------day---------.---------.---------.--------
1_12________20_______01________12________2330_0
78901234567891234567890123456789012345678901123

--------.--------.--------.---------month---------.--------.--------.--------
2____.......___23_______......._______......._______34_4


Apr 04 - May 06

I
I
I
I_____.......____X_____XX________X

--------.---------.---------.---------day---------.---------.---------.--------
0_____01________12________230____0
3456789012345678901234567890123456

--------.--------.--------.---------month---------.--------.--------.--------
4_______.......____......._______45____5

Source is: [link]


26 recognitions in the 1st month/wave, 9 in the 2nd, & now 4 in the 3rd.

Trend is obviously not linear - ie: not a straight line - as some like 'PRN' above might like to believe.

But rather appears to be a series of bell curves (waves:)), with ever decreasing maxima, with ever increasing spacing. This points to a finite upper limit on the total number of recognitions on the order of about 50 (2N).

regards
(peter, sydney, 6 May 2008 18:12)

Good point Peter, just a note though. You might want to dumb your language down a bit, I don't think that our "friends" understand you.

peter, sydney,

Peter , you have spoiled the whole witch party with your statistics ! Though it was a new sight at the events the general trend is quite evident. The US won't be able to to force to the recognition more than 50 puppets for other states are free from such an influence.

This people to have a joy of Lietova and last week about Burkina-Faso remind me the nazi to celebrate the death of F.D.Roosevelt and believing it was a sign of an escape to come. So let them go on praising each other with this expected micro success. We shall live and see what will come out of all this.

To Peter, Sydney

wow! youve got to much time on your habds my friend! is that all you do during your day? you sound angry and full of hatred! you sound worse than Nikolic... If you really are from Australia then i really do have to say this: Thank You Australia

To Ataman

Regarding your comment i just want to tell you that lithuanians are more close to us that to you , i drink Wine and i have lithuanian wife we will have baby soon and i will name baby ILIR. I gues you recognize this name .love lithuania and thank you.

Lithuanians were not firm suporters of the Nazis. But as aruel most nations in Eastern Europe rather supported than opposed the nazis! Rrom the Fins to the Albanian, this was the rule! Indeed only the Poles, the Serbs and the Greeks gave the nazis a resistence worth mentioning! Why was that. Surely no because they were all evil! Most people in Easter Europe simply detasted the post World Word I borders and feared communism. When they realized what Hitler really was, it was too late. but that is history! It doesn't matter anymore! For a country today the fact on which side it was in WWII is as important as on which side it was during the 30 Years War!

"Ari:

Have made no claims to being a mathematician - but is obvious to me that barring any external forcing, recognitions are petering out, with total number of recognitions tending to a limit. Figure of 50 seems about right for a time period of about a year.

Notice you did not mention this.

There is indeed a trend, & you do not have to have a doctorate to see it.

Regards
(peter, sydney, 7 May 2008 16:44)"

I was not disputing the trend; I was disputing your model, as well as your terminology.

Secondly, In order to get a better assessment of the distribution, one must employ a time series analysis( in order to do this, one must have a point A (beggining--in this case Feb. 17) and point B ( in this case we can include May 7).

the problem with this design is that the process of recognition is still ongoing, and as a result, this design sufferes from temporal problems. So, in this case, we cannot generalize on the process of recognition, YET. It would be a problem with external validity.
The good thing about a time series analysis is that it controls for the "spikes" in the distribution. For example, the number of recognition increased in the first weeks of the declaration, decreased towards the middle, increased again after the unrest in Mitrovica...and we can make a statistical assumption that it should increase after May 11.
the distribution would look simething like this:
xxxxxxxoxxxxxxoxxxxxo

where o is the spike(external/internal event)

In other words, we cannot infer, statistically, that there is an ongoing trend--as it would be an invalid generalization. we could make an educated guess that the frequency of recognitions has slowed down.

(David MacGuire, 7 May 2008 17:11)

It is possible that US wil cut troops (they don't have many anyhow) but this will not be done previous creation of capable deffence forces of Kosova. This sounds prefectly ok with me, and to you?

'Crveni Vuk' And 'Peter' from Sydney

Thank you for your precise 'linear' graphs, even though there was no need to try to intimidate people with simple mathematics, but if thats how you pursue your debates then I pitty you.

How can you affiliate mathematics with international politics when you say there is a trend? Is there any rationality in your statements? There is no such thing as a trend in international politics.

How many years after Croatia declared its independence did Serbia recognise the UDI? The Process is a Random process since the number of states which have not recognised the independence remaining is not proportional to the rate of recognitions.

The fact is, whether the recognition process takes 1, 2 or 7 years; there are no issues for the state Kosova, because we have our independence.

Regarding your comment i just want to tell you that lithuanians are more close to us that to you , i drink Wine and i have lithuanian wife we will have baby soon and i will name baby ILIR. I gues you recognize this name .love lithuania and thank you.
(Milaim, 7 May 2008 12:38)

Congratulation to the enlargement of your family, but the baby won't be any more Illyrian than Condi Rice. But it's nice to have legends and fairy-tales.

If you are Illyrians, than we are Shumerians. But there is much more evidence suggesting Shumerian connection of Hungarians than Illyrian connection of Albanians.

Endri, Albania

Racist! Many Slavic countries make up that International Community (countries that have even recognized Kosovo, like Poland, Slovenia, Croatia and Bulgaria, not to mention other peace keepers that have participated in humanitarian missions in Kosovo, including Russians and Ukrainians), how dare you call us criminals???

BTW. I know the Serbs call Albanians criminals all the time here, but that is because they hate them and it is nationalism that many European states have towards each other, but Albanians hating all Slavs, including those that have helped them is just pure, unfounded racism.

The only surprise is that why they recognized so late.

This small state is all that's bad in this world and all that's good for the Neo-Cons...

Lithuania insults Serbia.

Countries should listen a bit more to what Serbia has to say on the matter.

What are people able to do..,just to "eliminate" competition - in BASKET!!

Well,we will win you Lituania!

And we will put one Kosovo-Albanian in Serbia team..,just to remmember you!!

we live in europe and not in asia or africa and most european countrys have recognized kosovos independence more will follow soon.... important is what european countrys say and not countrys from africa or asia!
(dan, 6 May 2008 23:33)

Then the recognition from the US doesn't mean a thing, according to your logic.

To all:

with regard to previous post (#9), made a minor mistake - got the spacing wrong for the 'Lithuania' recognition event. So here is again:


Apr 04 - May 06

I
I
I
I_____.......____X_____XX___________X

--------.---------.---------.---------day---------.---------.---------.--------
0_____01________12________230____0
3456789012345678901234567890123456

--------.--------.--------.---------month---------.--------.--------.--------
4_______.......____......._______45____5

For those few who might be interested, cannot repeat a particular character more than 10 times apart from the 'space' character which cannot be repeated at all. And '.'s are 4 pixels wide, while numbers, 'X's & '_'s are 7. In previous post, forgot to allow for the '.'s on that particular line.


Mark (Shqype):
> Peter from Sydney, once Serbian elections are over and the Kosova constitution goes into effect in June there will be another wave of recognitions. Wait and see.

Perhaps though personally I doubt it as believe that only some sort of 'unusual' event will alter the trend - time will tell.

With regard to your comment about Malaysia & official recognition, is really a semantic issue & until & if it actually does so, cannot be regarded as the '40th' country to recognise.

What I find curious about this issue is that no-one actually picked up on it until just a couple of weeks ago when their foreign minister made that statement in their media - one cannot but help to wonder if there are others cases where mistakes have been made in translation.


Pejoni:
Your compatriot above made much the same comment & my response is therefore the same. Will just point out that all I have done in my previous post was to graphically display the data. Trend is not of my making - it just is. So as 'Mark (Shqype)' has said - will have to wait & see.


spunky:
> wow! youve got to much time on your habds my friend!
Sometimes yes & sometimes no.. but it is my time.

> If you really are from Australia then i really do have to say this: Thank You Australia

Yes, Australia was one of the first to recognise.. & it did not have it's 'arm twisted' by the US.

US did not have to as Australia's foreign policy is largely governed by the realities of the ANZUS alliance (Australia, New Zealand & US). So if the issue does not matter to Australia, it will go along with the US.

For instance, we were one of the 'handful' of countries that initially formed the 'alliance of the willing' in Iraq.

Pity our stance wasn't more principled - such as that of our smaller neighbour, New Zealand.

> you sound angry and full of hatred! you sound worse than Nikolic...

Suggest you re-read my post above. Cannot see any anger &/or hatred there. Perhaps what you really see is a reflection of your own personality when you attempt to ascribe such to others.

Or perhaps you are simply trying to 'shoot the messenger'. Seems to be 'another trend' that I have noticed here.

Once again, all I have done above is to present the data.

regards to all

Being Lithuanian I feel very ashamed that it came so late and it probably down to our politicians with whom ordinary Lithuanians are sick and tired. As probably you do not know that recognition was approved only after a second hearing. As soon as Kosovo declared independence officials down here said that recognition procedure do not require any urgency so it should be achieved following ordinary procedures, e.i in two weeks time. But it shouldn't! And what really made me heave, that the first hearing came after a month and a half or so. And here they failed to recognize Kosovo, saying text requires some corrections and postpoing the decision for another month. God have mercy on them I thought as another stoopid thing was that some parliamentarians simply celebrated a birthday of their fellow member and even do not participated in the hearing making it imposible to pass the bill even if others would wanted to go forth with it. Some say that it was only because Lithuanian business wanted to open some business councils in Serbia at the time and it would be very neglectful on their part to angry Serbia.
As I have read other comments here I want to add someting here. First, Lithuania does not have 40% of Russian population. Minorities in Lithuania make up no more than 20% and from 50-60% of them historically are Polish. The rest are 35% are Russians. Other thing is that big part of Polish people treat Russian as their first language and they are loyal more to Russian culture rather than the Lithuanian or even Polish. Second, do not buy Russian point of view that Latvia in any way embraces neo-nazi movements. It is complete nonsense, similar to that of Americans, who said that Sadam was very good friend to Osama.

Freind

The reason why Poles in Lithuania speak Russian and not Polish is not because they are "more loyal to Russian culture", it's just that since Lithuania became a part of the USSR, Polish was not taught in any schools (to my knowledge it was banned), only recently has Polish been introduced, but you can't erase 60 years of Russification overnight.

It is possible that US wil cut troops (they don't have many anyhow) but this will not be done previous creation of capable deffence forces of Kosova. This sounds prefectly ok with me, and to you?
(ben, 7 May 2008 18:58)

That would be fine if you had any money or resources to pay for weapons or an army, but you don't. The USA has been planning to strip Iraq to the bone for the new army we are fixing up for them. That's why there was such an uproar over the completely legitimate weapons purchases which Iraq made in Serbia. The US military has poisoned the very soil of Kosovo, for thousands of years, with illegal depleted uranium munitions. That uranium is all powder and dust; you will never get rid of it. George Soros and his crooked friends are cheaply buying up everything even remotely of value in Kosovo and Serbia. The Kosovars, both Albanians and Serbs, are going to wake up stripped to their shorts and realize that they've been screwed and not even a kiss to remember.

Ben don't over-estimate the military capabilities of the KLA or the albanians in general. If it was freedom you so much sought than you should have fought on your own rather than manipulate massacres to bring international media to your cause. If you're not prepared to die for freedom you will never have it.Look at the Tamil Tigers, Hezbollah, ETA, Chechens etc all with greivances and they fight tooth and nail with no-one to back them. They have legit claims to independence. The KLA and miltant Albanians have conned and cheated their people and you will get nothing in return but more suffering.

Peter Sudyka,

I don't think Endri was saying that he hated all Slavs. I agree that such a viewpoint is clear discrimination and similar to how the Serbs view Albanians. But, most Albanians don't feel that way, and I don't think that's what Endri meant either.

The Serbs and Russians obviously share a Slavic Orthodox culture and for that connection alone the Slavs are mentioned. I personally respect Polish and Croatian people: they're generally good, hardworking people and the Albanians appreciate their support of Kosova.

However, most of the Balkan Slavs seem to be on the same page when it comes to hatred, discrimination, human rights abuses, etc. etc. That is where the resentment lies, not with all Slavs themselves!

To Peter Sydka:

By calling me racist you clearly show in the first place a negative toward Albanians although strictly speaking as Polish you have nothing to do with this issue, Kosova problem. Secondly you obviously have a problem of understanding on my comment and I suggest you to read it carefully.

If you have a look at the commentary above mine you will see “If it was freedom you so much sought than you should have fought on your own rather than manipulate massacres to bring international media to your cause.” The commenter Pole-axe suggests that we didn’t fight on our own. Instead according to him everything was manipulated…..

I didn’t say that the Slavic countries/people are criminals. „Moreover, the crimes committed in Kosova from Serbian & Co Slavic criminals such as Macedonian, Russians, Ukrainians etc. brought the international community to our cause and not Albanians.” This part of commentary suggests that in the war with Serbian forces were a lot of mercenaries such as Russians, Macedonians, and Ukrainians etc. which committed crimes together with Serbian paramilitaries (not Russian, Macedonians and Ukrainians in general). Moreover I never called any nation criminals as you with your Serbian friends repeat constantly about Albanians….

I DON’T hate any people based on race, religion or whatever including Serbs. Only the fact of trying to play the role of victims (Serbs) in the face of international community is ironic. Crimes were committed by both sides however the consequences of the action can not be compared with the action itself.

PS. A part of my previous commentary was cut down.

That would be fine if you had any money or resources to pay for weapons or an army, but you don't.

(Dr David MacGuire, 8 May 2008 04:55)


Ben don't over-estimate the military capabilities of the KLA or the albanians in general. If it was freedom you so much sought than you should have fought on your own rather than manipulate massacres to bring international media to your cause. If you're not prepared to die for freedom you will never have it.Look at the Tamil Tigers, Hezbollah, ETA, Chechens etc[...]
(Pole-axe, 8 May 2008 09:29)

[...]I know the Serbs call Albanians criminals all the time here, but that is because they hate them and it is nationalism that many European states have towards each other, but Albanians hating all Slavs, including those that have helped them is just pure, unfounded racism.
(Peter Sudyka, 8 May 2008 21:43)

David: that’s true. Our resources are limited but this is the price to pay for freedom and dignity and we will. Albania did preserved here integrity in much more difficult times, pity that instead of choosing teh right strategy- aligning with NATO that would've cost much less it choose the self-isolation.

Anyhow the contribution of Albania and NATO umbrella might play a role in teh stability in Kosova as teh latter did for the entire Europe during the cold war. The most effective strategy for the stability of Kosova and the region would be the true democracy in Serbia- but we cannot rely our safety on this hope moreover when the nationalist forces in Serbia are backed by obscurantist forces in Moscow.

Pole-axe: you should note that the Serbian position on the first appearance of KLA was that it is ‘Serbian internal affair of public order’ and in 1997/98 tried to fight back with the lightly armed Police and special units of the Army. Guess what happened: according to all observes KLA was controlling nearly 50% of Kosova and during the night only the urban areas were under Serbian control. Than Serbia had to bring the heavy armed units of the Army and massacres happened- that Endy described.

In other note that Albania was perfectly able to preserve here integrity facing much richer 25M Yugoslavia without benefiting of any defense umbrella like NATO or Warsaw pact. Actually it was able to make some troubles in Kosova too.

Besides Pole-axe, you mentioned all terrorist organizations who have won nothing, so I feel no envy towards them at all.

Peter: you say, “I know the Serbs call Albanians criminals all the time here, but that is because they hate them and it is nationalism…” and than on the Albanian side you use the expression racism. Can you pls explain why the Serbian side is not racist in you opinion.

Anyhow, Albanians do not hate Slavs at all, actually in Kosova I heard the best words for the Polish solders that are deployed there.

But you cannot deny the fact that the biggest support that Serbia is and had historically is from the Slavic nations, aside Russia, see the position of the ‘concern’ of breaching the international law of Czech Republic- as the UK, France, Germany etc are governed by charlatans and irresponsible people.

The so called Kosova “issue” exists because Russia wants it not because there is really any issus furthermore in the XXI century in the middle of Europe, massacred just 9 years ago. Hence you cannot pretend that ppl feel a distant towards this culture.