Skopje rejects Belgrade's involvement in demarcation

Poor Macedonia, it is being pulled and stretched all over the place and the government simply has no direction.

It was safe in Yugoslavia but is now very isolated and vulnerable. However, I still believe Serbia is its friendliest neighbour and it should show a little more respect before it burns even that bridge.

Well it's that way is it? FYROM will soon have to decide who are their friends, Serbs or the albanians? If they persist with this attitude then they will soon have no trade with Serbia.
Let's hope they make the right choice.
As for the true Macedonians, well they are in Greece and Serbia will always have trade and friendly relations with them.
Cheers!

The border demarcation will be realized in keeping with the Ahtisaari plan, which explicitly says that Macedonia has a legitimate right to define the borders with its neighbors, the Ministry explained.

The Ahtisaari plan was not approved by the UN and was never accepted by Serbia.
Therefore,it's null and void.
By accepting such a plan FYROM officially recognises the illegal kosove UDI.

I think that Serbia has the right of piece of land between
China and Tibet also...
Milosevic is still alive and active...
Some call him Tadic,and sometimes Nikolic and Kostunica...

Ahtisaari's plan has no legality at all. It was rejected at the UNSC. The border between Kosovo and Macedonia should be negotiated between UNMIK, Serbia and Macedonia as Kosovo is part of Serbia and currently administered by UNMIK.

By accepting such a plan FYROM officially recognises the illegal kosove UDI.
(Leonidas, 25 April 2008 13:56)
Welcome to real world Leonidas! FYROM repeately said that will recognize Kosovo independence based on Ahtisari plan. There is no surprise here.

What claims does Rep. of Serbia have on border demarcation between Rep. of Kosova and Rep. of Macedonia.

The UN has no say over borders. Demarcation will go on between Kosovo and Macedonia as two independent countries.

That's right, UN doesn't have a say on whether an entity is a country or not either. Individual recognitions take care of that department.

The UN is an organization, not a world government. I guess people around here didn't get the memo.

I don't understand how can Serbia pretend to be involved in bilateral affairs of 2 sovereign states without being asked for it?! With this logic of Serbia I wouldn't be surprised if they pretend to be involved in demarcation of a border between India and Pakistan!
There is no doubt who are the best neighbours of Macedonia - of course Kosovo and Albania, there is natural bridge. 30% of population of Macedonia is Albanian. How can be different?!
Good luck both to Kosovo and Macedonia...

Stone, in response to your confused rant...

As it stands today the phantom state of Kosovo has recognition from a mere 39 UN member states out of a possible 192 UN members. With such international players as the Republic of Nauru and Burkina Faso recognising the illegal independence of Kosovo (both of which announced their recognition on 24th April) it is plain to see that the arrogant retort mooted by certain foreign office drones of 'quality not quantity' really doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Only the naive, and dare i say 'stupid', would believe that the corrupt and morally bankrupt enterprise that culminated in Kosovo's illegal and pig headed declaration of 'independence' would bring peace to the Balkans. It is time to admit that Kosovo and Metohija is legally and rightfully Serbian. 153 UN members agree... 39 dont.

Dragan:"FYROM will soon have to decide who are their friends, Serbs or the Albanians?"

Are you trying to pull of a G.W.Bush speech on you are with us or the terrorists?

Dragan"If they persist with this attitude then they will soon have no trade with Serbia."
Its time to get off your horse Mr. Have you not paid attention that the Macedonians are getting robbed blindly by the Greeks? What has Serbia ever do for Macedonia for them to have loyal faith in the Serb brothers? Serbia is selling everything to Russia, that way no helping out in the FYRM.
Chears all,

Macedonia could never ignore the wishes of its Albanian population. Like it or not it is a hostage. Quarels with Greece may lead to trade embargo, Quarels with Serbia or Bulgaria may lead to bad rhetorics, but a quarel with the Albanians may lead to desintegration of Macedonia. Pure and simple! It is a good ilustration of what will happen to Serbia, if Kosovo returns to its fold. You know the proverb: "Be carefull what you ask! You may get it!"

Dear all,

Comments like:
1. "Skopje rejects Belgrade's involvement in demarcation",

2."UNMIK rejects Serbian elcation",

3."EULEX rejects Serbia's illegality claims..."

4. UN/EU/USA/Albania/Croatia (...etc) rejects Serbia/Belgrade....

5. ....rejects Serbia

...are no news in planet earth...

Is this Serbia vs Planet earth?

Maybe in couple of decades the word REJECTS may be replaced with word ACCEPTS...

That would be a good news for Serbia...

Peace to all...

There are a lot of posters here that ask the question "Why is Serbia interfering in a matter between Kosovo and Macedonia?" Well, the answer is simple to anyone who has any logical thinking... lets look at a well established fact...

Fact: Kosovo is Serbia.

Therefore Kosovo border demarcation issue is really Serbia's border demarcation issue...

Ipso facto... Serbia has the right to be involved.

to nik:

don´t worry, we WILL get what we ask for. and we are not Macedonians.

that´s something you still haven´t realized...

but you will, my friend, you will...

Dear Serbia,

Over the past 20 years or so you seem to have lost your political influence amongst once strong and loyal allies. This was quite eveident just recently when France and England recognised Kosovo (and independant and sovereign state). Tradtitonally you were very influencial and convincing within the international diplomatic arean. The "behind the scenes" orchesatrated programs of diluting and dividing, what you considered minority groups and non serbian peoples, seems to have lost its momentum.

It is sad that you have not realised that we now live in a very different world than the one you found yourself 20 years ago, maybe a policy change in thinking is well overdue!
I was present durig the first international forces entry into Kosovo and the most common shared feeling amongst all internationals was one of dismay and surprise, "we couldnt beleive that the Albanians were actually a European People" not much was really known about kosovo before this. The Serbian diplomatic community had managed to convince most of the world that these people of kosovo where a backward and muslim/middle eastern people! What the whole world witnessed was far from this, its this international intervention that opened the eyes of the world for Kosovo.
Maybe it would be wise for you all to reassess your rhetoric and to finally come to grips with your place in the Balkans, You will need to co-exist and revise your policy, I also hear so much that Kosovo is the Cradle of your Orthodox Church, although this could be debated vigorously its essential for all to note that you have never claimed anything but religious ties to Kosovo, because its not the cradle of your civilization!

Please wake up to yourself, and understand that the current situation in Kosovo is permanent and one that you have witnessed over the past 9 years, it should be no surprise that things have ended as they have.

"Only the naive, and dare i say 'stupid', would believe that the corrupt and morally bankrupt enterprise that culminated in Kosovo's illegal and pig headed declaration of 'independence' would bring peace to the Balkans."

Anthony, let's see: USA, UK, France,Australia, Germany,Denmark,Italy,Belgium,
Switzerland,Austria,Ireland,
Sweden,Netherlands,Iceland,
Finland,Japan,Canada,Korea, Rep.,Norway, are among those who have recognized Kosova's independence.
Now lets see: China, Russia, Venezuela, Cyprus, Slovakia are amongst those who have vowed they will not recognize Kosova's independence.

If you want we can find actuall figure about corruption in each of these countries. Let me give you a hint. Those on Serbia's camp are among the most corrupt countries on earth. Also those on Serbia's camp include dictatorships and autocracies.

Also as for peace in the Balkans, we Albanians are loving our newfound peace.

"Maybe they wish to participate in negotiations between Slovenia and Croatia over the fishing border dispute also!?!
(Golden, 28 April 2008 01:05) "

No Golden, this is already decided in the Brussels and Ljubljana, regardles of what Zagreb wants.
Decision:
Allow Italy and Slovenia to empty croatian waters on fish, OR ELSE.... No Eu membership for Croatia!

For our FYROMian friends I am genuinely sad, FYROM is lost as a country within 5-10 years. The albanians will demand independence for eastern FYROM and the US will probably back them if they have not become totally bancrupt after the middle eastern wars.
AS sad as I am for our orthodox brothers in FYROM, they have to sleep in the bed they make, if they chose to become bedpartners with the Kosovo albanians they will have to pay the price for it later.

hmm

I don't recall the Serbs aksing us for our involvemet in the processes of border alterations 100 years ago? I tried to find any relevant history references though could not find any specifics.. Our Orthodox brothers the Serbs and Greeks violently took large parts of our land and opressed our people with out asking us for our involvement in that process.

Call us what ever you like, Macedonians, Bulgarians or Pakastanis if you like, though one thing is for sure... we are nor Serb nor Greek.. yet these two countries decided to take the matters of borders into there own hands..

My Grandfather is living proof of the suffering we endured under the Serbs which was not that much better than the Turks.. so please spare us of any talk regarding "brotherhood" or "bridges".

Besides the Serbs have already burnt their bridges, this is why they lost 13% of their land to the weakest Ethnic group in the Balkans and have two million serbs living in neighbouring countries. It's high time that the Macdonian government recognise Kosovo, not out of love or appeasement for the Albanians, but a thank you present for all that the Serb nation has given to us in the last 100 years.

And as for the Albanian bloggers on th B92, there will be no disintergration of Macedonia sorry to spoil the party.. We do things democratically in our country, if you don't like Skopje and you want to play those games perhaps we can move our capital to Sofia?? does that sound like a better option for you???

Life is a circle!

Macedonian1903,

“… It's high time that the Macdonian government recognise Kosovo, not out of love or appeasement for the Albanians, but a thank you present for all that the Serb nation has given to us in the last 100 years …”

Wouldn’t you accept that problems which you had with a Serbs were solved during the SFR Yugoslavia period? There aren’t any aspirations in Serbia towards FRYM. Serbs are actually your most friendly neighbor. We sympathize with you, we understand your precarious situation with your “friendly” minority. You made a big mistake when you left federation. It made you more vulnerable. You should make peace with Greece and we should cooperate to protect our common interests against our common enemy.

Why should Belgrade participate in border demarcation of a border it no longer controls?

Maybe they wish to participate in negotiations between Slovenia and Croatia over the fishing border dispute also!?!

Dear Stevan,

Circumnstances were somewhat different under the communist titoist regime. #1 fact is that serbia did not run Yugoslavia, #2 fact the Serbs did not give us our state after WWII, the communist did for their own underlying agendas, if it was up to the serbs today we would be called southern Serbia.

Personally speaking my friend, if it wasn't for the Serbs today we would a part of Bulgaria which is logical considering that we are Bulgarians ethnically..

So the answer is yes, leaving the federation was th right thing to do.

Serbia should concentrate on annexing lands where serbs live.. e.g Bosnia, that is there right..

I think that Serbia has the right of piece of land between
China and Tibet also...
Milosevic is still alive and active...
Some call him Tadic,and sometimes Nikolic and Kostunica...

By accepting such a plan FYROM officially recognises the illegal kosove UDI.
(Leonidas, 25 April 2008 13:56)
Welcome to real world Leonidas! FYROM repeately said that will recognize Kosovo independence based on Ahtisari plan. There is no surprise here.

The UN has no say over borders. Demarcation will go on between Kosovo and Macedonia as two independent countries.

That's right, UN doesn't have a say on whether an entity is a country or not either. Individual recognitions take care of that department.

The UN is an organization, not a world government. I guess people around here didn't get the memo.

Dear all,

Comments like:
1. "Skopje rejects Belgrade's involvement in demarcation",

2."UNMIK rejects Serbian elcation",

3."EULEX rejects Serbia's illegality claims..."

4. UN/EU/USA/Albania/Croatia (...etc) rejects Serbia/Belgrade....

5. ....rejects Serbia

...are no news in planet earth...

Is this Serbia vs Planet earth?

Maybe in couple of decades the word REJECTS may be replaced with word ACCEPTS...

That would be a good news for Serbia...

Peace to all...

What claims does Rep. of Serbia have on border demarcation between Rep. of Kosova and Rep. of Macedonia.

Dragan:"FYROM will soon have to decide who are their friends, Serbs or the Albanians?"

Are you trying to pull of a G.W.Bush speech on you are with us or the terrorists?

Dragan"If they persist with this attitude then they will soon have no trade with Serbia."
Its time to get off your horse Mr. Have you not paid attention that the Macedonians are getting robbed blindly by the Greeks? What has Serbia ever do for Macedonia for them to have loyal faith in the Serb brothers? Serbia is selling everything to Russia, that way no helping out in the FYRM.
Chears all,

Ahtisaari's plan has no legality at all. It was rejected at the UNSC. The border between Kosovo and Macedonia should be negotiated between UNMIK, Serbia and Macedonia as Kosovo is part of Serbia and currently administered by UNMIK.

I don't understand how can Serbia pretend to be involved in bilateral affairs of 2 sovereign states without being asked for it?! With this logic of Serbia I wouldn't be surprised if they pretend to be involved in demarcation of a border between India and Pakistan!
There is no doubt who are the best neighbours of Macedonia - of course Kosovo and Albania, there is natural bridge. 30% of population of Macedonia is Albanian. How can be different?!
Good luck both to Kosovo and Macedonia...

Poor Macedonia, it is being pulled and stretched all over the place and the government simply has no direction.

It was safe in Yugoslavia but is now very isolated and vulnerable. However, I still believe Serbia is its friendliest neighbour and it should show a little more respect before it burns even that bridge.

The border demarcation will be realized in keeping with the Ahtisaari plan, which explicitly says that Macedonia has a legitimate right to define the borders with its neighbors, the Ministry explained.

The Ahtisaari plan was not approved by the UN and was never accepted by Serbia.
Therefore,it's null and void.
By accepting such a plan FYROM officially recognises the illegal kosove UDI.

Macedonia could never ignore the wishes of its Albanian population. Like it or not it is a hostage. Quarels with Greece may lead to trade embargo, Quarels with Serbia or Bulgaria may lead to bad rhetorics, but a quarel with the Albanians may lead to desintegration of Macedonia. Pure and simple! It is a good ilustration of what will happen to Serbia, if Kosovo returns to its fold. You know the proverb: "Be carefull what you ask! You may get it!"

hmm

I don't recall the Serbs aksing us for our involvemet in the processes of border alterations 100 years ago? I tried to find any relevant history references though could not find any specifics.. Our Orthodox brothers the Serbs and Greeks violently took large parts of our land and opressed our people with out asking us for our involvement in that process.

Call us what ever you like, Macedonians, Bulgarians or Pakastanis if you like, though one thing is for sure... we are nor Serb nor Greek.. yet these two countries decided to take the matters of borders into there own hands..

My Grandfather is living proof of the suffering we endured under the Serbs which was not that much better than the Turks.. so please spare us of any talk regarding "brotherhood" or "bridges".

Besides the Serbs have already burnt their bridges, this is why they lost 13% of their land to the weakest Ethnic group in the Balkans and have two million serbs living in neighbouring countries. It's high time that the Macdonian government recognise Kosovo, not out of love or appeasement for the Albanians, but a thank you present for all that the Serb nation has given to us in the last 100 years.

And as for the Albanian bloggers on th B92, there will be no disintergration of Macedonia sorry to spoil the party.. We do things democratically in our country, if you don't like Skopje and you want to play those games perhaps we can move our capital to Sofia?? does that sound like a better option for you???

Life is a circle!

Dear Serbia,

Over the past 20 years or so you seem to have lost your political influence amongst once strong and loyal allies. This was quite eveident just recently when France and England recognised Kosovo (and independant and sovereign state). Tradtitonally you were very influencial and convincing within the international diplomatic arean. The "behind the scenes" orchesatrated programs of diluting and dividing, what you considered minority groups and non serbian peoples, seems to have lost its momentum.

It is sad that you have not realised that we now live in a very different world than the one you found yourself 20 years ago, maybe a policy change in thinking is well overdue!
I was present durig the first international forces entry into Kosovo and the most common shared feeling amongst all internationals was one of dismay and surprise, "we couldnt beleive that the Albanians were actually a European People" not much was really known about kosovo before this. The Serbian diplomatic community had managed to convince most of the world that these people of kosovo where a backward and muslim/middle eastern people! What the whole world witnessed was far from this, its this international intervention that opened the eyes of the world for Kosovo.
Maybe it would be wise for you all to reassess your rhetoric and to finally come to grips with your place in the Balkans, You will need to co-exist and revise your policy, I also hear so much that Kosovo is the Cradle of your Orthodox Church, although this could be debated vigorously its essential for all to note that you have never claimed anything but religious ties to Kosovo, because its not the cradle of your civilization!

Please wake up to yourself, and understand that the current situation in Kosovo is permanent and one that you have witnessed over the past 9 years, it should be no surprise that things have ended as they have.

"Only the naive, and dare i say 'stupid', would believe that the corrupt and morally bankrupt enterprise that culminated in Kosovo's illegal and pig headed declaration of 'independence' would bring peace to the Balkans."

Anthony, let's see: USA, UK, France,Australia, Germany,Denmark,Italy,Belgium,
Switzerland,Austria,Ireland,
Sweden,Netherlands,Iceland,
Finland,Japan,Canada,Korea, Rep.,Norway, are among those who have recognized Kosova's independence.
Now lets see: China, Russia, Venezuela, Cyprus, Slovakia are amongst those who have vowed they will not recognize Kosova's independence.

If you want we can find actuall figure about corruption in each of these countries. Let me give you a hint. Those on Serbia's camp are among the most corrupt countries on earth. Also those on Serbia's camp include dictatorships and autocracies.

Also as for peace in the Balkans, we Albanians are loving our newfound peace.

Well it's that way is it? FYROM will soon have to decide who are their friends, Serbs or the albanians? If they persist with this attitude then they will soon have no trade with Serbia.
Let's hope they make the right choice.
As for the true Macedonians, well they are in Greece and Serbia will always have trade and friendly relations with them.
Cheers!

Stone, in response to your confused rant...

As it stands today the phantom state of Kosovo has recognition from a mere 39 UN member states out of a possible 192 UN members. With such international players as the Republic of Nauru and Burkina Faso recognising the illegal independence of Kosovo (both of which announced their recognition on 24th April) it is plain to see that the arrogant retort mooted by certain foreign office drones of 'quality not quantity' really doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Only the naive, and dare i say 'stupid', would believe that the corrupt and morally bankrupt enterprise that culminated in Kosovo's illegal and pig headed declaration of 'independence' would bring peace to the Balkans. It is time to admit that Kosovo and Metohija is legally and rightfully Serbian. 153 UN members agree... 39 dont.

to nik:

don´t worry, we WILL get what we ask for. and we are not Macedonians.

that´s something you still haven´t realized...

but you will, my friend, you will...

There are a lot of posters here that ask the question "Why is Serbia interfering in a matter between Kosovo and Macedonia?" Well, the answer is simple to anyone who has any logical thinking... lets look at a well established fact...

Fact: Kosovo is Serbia.

Therefore Kosovo border demarcation issue is really Serbia's border demarcation issue...

Ipso facto... Serbia has the right to be involved.

Macedonian1903,

“… It's high time that the Macdonian government recognise Kosovo, not out of love or appeasement for the Albanians, but a thank you present for all that the Serb nation has given to us in the last 100 years …”

Wouldn’t you accept that problems which you had with a Serbs were solved during the SFR Yugoslavia period? There aren’t any aspirations in Serbia towards FRYM. Serbs are actually your most friendly neighbor. We sympathize with you, we understand your precarious situation with your “friendly” minority. You made a big mistake when you left federation. It made you more vulnerable. You should make peace with Greece and we should cooperate to protect our common interests against our common enemy.

Why should Belgrade participate in border demarcation of a border it no longer controls?

Maybe they wish to participate in negotiations between Slovenia and Croatia over the fishing border dispute also!?!

Dear Stevan,

Circumnstances were somewhat different under the communist titoist regime. #1 fact is that serbia did not run Yugoslavia, #2 fact the Serbs did not give us our state after WWII, the communist did for their own underlying agendas, if it was up to the serbs today we would be called southern Serbia.

Personally speaking my friend, if it wasn't for the Serbs today we would a part of Bulgaria which is logical considering that we are Bulgarians ethnically..

So the answer is yes, leaving the federation was th right thing to do.

Serbia should concentrate on annexing lands where serbs live.. e.g Bosnia, that is there right..

"Maybe they wish to participate in negotiations between Slovenia and Croatia over the fishing border dispute also!?!
(Golden, 28 April 2008 01:05) "

No Golden, this is already decided in the Brussels and Ljubljana, regardles of what Zagreb wants.
Decision:
Allow Italy and Slovenia to empty croatian waters on fish, OR ELSE.... No Eu membership for Croatia!

For our FYROMian friends I am genuinely sad, FYROM is lost as a country within 5-10 years. The albanians will demand independence for eastern FYROM and the US will probably back them if they have not become totally bancrupt after the middle eastern wars.
AS sad as I am for our orthodox brothers in FYROM, they have to sleep in the bed they make, if they chose to become bedpartners with the Kosovo albanians they will have to pay the price for it later.