Holland softens SAA stance?

The Dutch are delusional, but in a way that advantages Serbia.

Serbia will never hand over Mladic or Karadzic, even if they were living there. Why should they co-operate with a court set up by NATO? A court that killed Milosevic by denying him medical treatment? A court that is solely there to convict Serbians and some low level criminals but to acquit those friendly to NATO?

The whole court is a farce and I'll be glad when Serbia makes that clear and tells the EU that it will only join under its own terms. Not some set by delusional governments or enemies.

Quite simply, the EU needs us more than we need them, which is the reason for this attempt to sign the SAA.

The investment stream coming into Serbia is endlessly growing stronger and stronger so the EU can wait.

The Dutch are being pure racists. Why didn't they apply the same principle to Croatia? The Dutch allowed Srebrenica to be a safe haven for muslim murdering Serbs in the surrounding villages in the 1990s, and now they are trying to hit the Serbs from another direction.

I am so sick and tired of these self-righteous Dutch.

They stand back and allow the Srebrenica muslims to massacre over 3,000 Serbian civilians in the surrounding villages including women and children.

The biggest crime in Srebrenica was that the Dutch should have stopped the muslims from from their murderous incursions before the Serbs were forcced to.

Where is the Dutch condemnation of the muslim crimes or for their on inactions?

Why is that when the Serbs kill over 3,000 muslim men of military age, they're villified while when the mulims massacre over 3,000 Serbian men, women and children, they're suddenly hopeless victims?

Why is it that 'revenge' attacks are accepted only when the perpetrators are non-Serbs?

Shame on you all.

Mr. Dutch Canadian,

What makes you think we Serbs even want to join the EU? Why would we join a club where some members are more equal than others, where most of the big boys don't recognize Serbia's sovereign borders, where many of the big boys bombed Serbia illegally for 78 days (a war crime)...??
Where was the EU when the entire Serb population of Krajina was ethnically cleansed? This was REAL genocide, hundreds of years of history wiped out in one weekend. Where? I will tell you where, they were helping the war criminal cleansers, their Croat friends.
So, no, the EU does not deserve, and is not worthy of having a free, independent, noble, and proud nation such as Serbia in its club. We want no part of it. So tell the Europeans to send Solana and the 'humanitarian bombers' to the Hague, to pay back the billions in damage they did to Serb infrastructure, to rescind their illegal recognition of that fake/illegal/immoral state run by organ traffickers, and then MAYBE...MAAAAYBEEE...we will consider it. Get on your knees and pray EU, pray!!
Otherwise, good riddance!

Cheers!

The only Dutch soldier killed at Srebrenica was killed by a Bosnian Muslim soldier during the withdrawal.

Both the Dutch and the huge Muslim army withdrew and did not fight, so essentially the much smaller Serb forces just walked in.

The civilians were given bus rides to Tuzla airport by Serb civilian bus drivers and escorted by the Dutch.

There were running fights of the Bosnian army as it trekked many miles from the Srebrenica enclave to Muslim-controlled territory.

It's always strange why the larger Muslim army in Srebrenica and in the defensive position advantage was ordered to leave and not fight. Both the UN and the Muslim army commanders told their soldiers to leave their defenses all around the city.

Many thousands of men poured into Tuzla about a week after the fall. The true numbers of those who made it versus those who lost their lives may never be known for all the exaggerated propaganda.

Additionally, the Muslim army fallen from Zepa are included in the names of the "dead or missing" from Srebrenica.

There is also no factoring out battle deaths so the numbers of alleged POW killed at the fall of Srebrenica is very exaggerated.

It should be known that the Dutch protected Naser Oric and his 28th Brigade when they slunk out and carried out a scorched earth policy on all surrounding Serb villages and territories beyond they could reach.

They even videotaped their killings of Serbs and the burnt out ruins of their villages.

These were the kind of people the Dutch protected for years. The Dutch protected Muslim terrorists who decapitated Serbs and killed them with "explosives" and "cold weapons" (knives, for example) to quote Naser Oric himself.

The Dutch are punishing the Serbs for their own criminal negligence so they can feel better about themselves. The truth is A terrible crime was committed at Srebrenica, and not just by the Serbs.

@Dutch Canadian: B92 forum calls for a higher level of discussion and more dignity and objectivity; one day we shall know more about why and how the Dutch UN soldiers left Srebrenica alone.

It's very good news for Serbia ! No more blackmail ! Thank you the Dutch ! Yesterday I feared that they will formally open the door to reveal the main list of US-EU demands after the elections.

I really believe that ordinary Dutch people may oppose Serbian integration like the Dutch Canadian to post here. But I don't think that the Dutch elite integrated so much into EU elite will dare to have a private point of view of their own. Look this is the first time when the Dutch elite opposes Atlantic solidarity in a quetion being of no special importance for Holland.

I guess the thing is that the Yankees do realize that the SAA will not help Tadic while it may create further problems with Serbia. So the Dutch were told to stand firm. I've got a Dutch friend of mine to explain me the sentimental nature of this people. They are not to search for scandals. They just work without aatracting attention. So what we see now is not the Dutch way of behaniior. But it's good for Serbia from many points of view.

Regardless of motivations, the Dutch are clearly doing Serbia a favor; without their obstruction the DS could very well have signed this capitulation and permanently damaged Serbia’s interests. The Dutch clearly took a side in Srebrenica way before the alleged events happened, but that is irrelevant; thank you Holland!

to: American Dutch

" Russia, as I saw yesterday, gives you expired can food, no wonder when 59 million Russians live under extreme poverty. It's good they send aid to serbs but expired food?!!! "

No matter if you are American Dutch or a Dutch American on behalf the Serbs and the Russians I appreciate you to care so much of us.

So I have two good news for you :

1. The Russian foods shipped to Kosovo and Metohjia were not out of date. It was a Western propagandist duck. We are not in any case going to poison our brothers. So don't worry of the Serbs. Best thing the Dutch could do for them was to bar the SAA and many of the Serbs will be grateful to you to help them remain independent.

2. The 59 mln figures were real when West sponsored Eltsin ruled Russia 8,5 years. Putin made the figures almost 3 times less of what you insist on. Those were rough times for Russia when colonial contracts like Sakhalin-1 and Sakhalin-2 with Royal Dutch-Shell were imposed on Russia. But those times are not to be back. So don't worry of Russia too. Somehow we are going to cope with the challenges you ( or at least the American part of you ) constantly export here.

Serbia remains the only free country in Europe and will not sign whatever the dev...€USSR/USA comes up with in order to disintegrate it. Next election will make sure of that, which by the way, is the only election in Europe where you have a REAL choise. Not just between two or more identical IMF-slave parties

Dutch Canadian,

After 18 years of digging and satelite scanning, Holland is unable to produce the location of so called mass graves.

So many Serbia-haters on this chat that it is becoming desguisting. Let me make this clear to everyone now: it is not important at all for Serbia to enter EU now or soon, important is that is no longer a country with 1 party and in the war, but a democratic society. As far as the Dutch government's blackmailing is concerned, every governement in EU knows that it was the Dutch battalion that betrayed the Muslim enclave and handled it to Mladic. It is only the matter of tact from the European politicians that they do not point it directly to the Dutch and leave them to understand it by themselves. It is not easy to accept: to participate in the crime under the flag od United Nations, but it must be accepted sooner or later. Ratko Mladic may be very well in Serbia, but also in Holland or USA.

Dutch Canadian, there is a single difference between you and your authorities: You, openly and honestly say that we are not welcomed in European family. Your authorities are liars. They are inventing all the time excuses, new and newer conditions, as to avoid saying the truth which you just said. If EU would openly say you just did, we would be less disappointed and we would think what to do. Thus, we ere being discriminated by US and EU. We - as the people, not particular regime, or politician, but WE. Our children, students, men, women, young, old...

I am proud to be still a Dutchman! After so many years full of promisses and lies from the side of the Serbian authorities that they can't find those criminals, who killed so many innocent people, it is time for me to say: "Don't come into the European family, because you aren't welcome!" You may call this Serbophobe.

who even cares what the dutch think ? there talking now like there of some importance to in the EU . when you have matured like your cheese to the level of the UK or germany then come back and play with the big boys , until then ... shut it .

@italy, 25 April 2008 19:12

Yes it was an dutch batallion (actually there where only about 150 dutch men in the enclave) that did nothing, they did nothing because an FRENCH general REFUSED air support for those 150 men, 150 men that where facing about 4000 enemy soldier's guess what would have happend if they fought back, then there would be not 8000 men dead, it would be 8150 men dead.

But that's not the point, everyone knows that the enclave's where traded for the relief off the Sarajevo siege.

That's the real reason why no one in the west wants to see Karadizc & Mladic in the Hague, the west also knows damn well that the mortar that was fired on the market in Sarajevo never could have been fired from the serbs beacuse the range off the particular mortar is to small to ever have come from the serbs.

Srebrenica was given up by the big country's, first off the dutch where the only one's willing the go to Srebrenica, the rest did not want to go, not the US, not the UK, not France etc etc

ANd to all the serbs, we know that the Muslims attacked the the serb village's around srebrenica, we where not allowed to do anything about it.

And for all the criticasters, i visited Srebrenica and have an lot off frends who served there and some off there where there when it fell, they still feel sick about it because they wanted to do something about the raids and do something about the attack on Srebrenica, bu they got orders from the high command to do nothing.

If Mladic would go on trial it would become clear that the entire West is guilty off doing absolutly nothing about Srebrenica.

1. The dutch weren't allowed to fight.
2. The french General refused air support
3. The nato refused air support
4. The UN deemed the life off an dutch soldier more valuable than the life off an Bosnian Muslim or Serb.

And if where scared to fight, then tell me why we are currently fighting in 1 off the province's off Afghanistan which houses the most Taliban.

We are not scared to fight, we where just not allowed to fight.

I will encourage the serbs not to enter the EU. What your country need is economic growth, not the EU. My country Norway is not a member, and thank God for that.

What nonsense that the EU Brussels is going to be the Saviour of Eastern Europe. Look at what has happened in East Germany over 20% unemployment after many of 100s of billions spent in east Germany and people leaving in droves this is after all coming up two decades. They will help them selfs to resources and to profitable Co and cheap labor and the profits back to their country's.

Dutch Uncle.Dutch music.Dutch treatment.Yeah and the most caracteristic:Dutch Courage.
A county which will be under the water in 50 years.

The Dutch are right: Serbia obviously isn't ready for anything resembling serious negotiations with the EU yet. The "democratic forces" seem to be in a weak position indeed if their success depends on whether or not Serbia gets preferential treatment from the EU, and while they have my sympathies for this predicament and I wish them every success with improving their country's politics, the majority of their countrymen simply don't seem to be ready yet...

Thank you Holland for being so prudent not to let this country into the EU which votes mainly right-wing parties and hides war criminals of the worst sort. We don't want and, especially, we don't need you!

Goodbye!

Mircea

I agree that the EU has the potential to improve the economies of the former communist bloc, my argument is that it was too soon for us.

I think that those economies should have had fully functioning trade blocs between themselves, developing each other to the stage where we could smoothly enter the EU, and not the rude shock that both our countries and the rest of CEE felt.

For example, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary had the Visegrad Group, the Baltic States had their own, there was CEFTA (Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Croatia, Macedonia, Moldova and Montenegro), Romania and Bulgaria could have formed a joint bloc too, perhaps with Albania, and waited a good few years, weathering the changes at their own pace in order for eventual, smooth transition into the EU. I think it was by far too soon, and many countries have become prosperous in Europe without the EU (though you are perfectly right with the Communist argument).

To be perfectly honest, only Slovenia and Estonia (maybe the Czech Republic) were ready for the EU, the rest were simply not, and that is what drove so many of us Westward.

Chris Wilson

I think the word you are looking for is xenophobia. Croats and Serbs are not a separate race from each other (though they might think they are, hehe, with Serbs claiming to be Slavs and Croats either Iranians or Goths).

To all Dutchmen,especially Dutch-Canadian on this site,I'm ready to welcome you in my home in Alberta.We can have beer(Molson Canadian,eh?)and open dialogue about anything.I'm not prejudiced toward Dutch in any way,shape or form,please show me equal respect.Can't call yourself tolerant Canadian with such open animosity toward Serbian people.Cheers!

As a Dutchman I am proud of my Government. The Dutch people will never forget the immages of Duch souldiers tied into telephone poles in Srebenica by Mlladic soldiers. It is time for Serbia to understand that there is no E.U without these thugs in Hage.

I want to express my delight that I finally agree with the Dutch.
Serbia shouldn't join the EU.
The reason has nothing to do with Karadzic and Mladic, but because the Serbs are realizing that the EU is demonstrating all the disgusting characteristics of Austro-Hungarian Empire: a collection of impotent nations competing cravenly for favours like beggars.
Serbs (the nation, not its politicians) are not Croats or Albanians or Slovenes, they dont accept easily to be tutored from abroad and would only cause the trouble to the EU just as they did it to the Austro-Hungarians and Ottomans.
Neither are we Dutch nor will we ever be, and you know what? We don't give a damn about it. Just stop pretending that you are worrying about us because that is beginning to irritate us seriously.
And,if the Serbs get mad they may send you into p.m. (ask some Serbian friend to translate this for you).
So, no hard feelings Dutchies, we wish you the best of luck in your life below the sea level.

Nobody believes that the Dutch do not know why Mladic & Karadzic are still at large (see Hartman's interview): this also means that their opposition has if not the sole purpose then the sole consequence of pushing Serbia into the 11/5 electoral defeat of the democratic forces.

The dutch news (www.nrc.nl) says the government let go of the demand to have Mladic arrested in order to sign the SAA,and that a creative solution has to be found in the future.

So i don't know who to believe.
I in fact respect the dutch government for being stubborn in this case in order to see "international justice" instead of pragmatism and compromise. However they chose the latter by recognizing kosovo, so there goes all the credibility of The Hague as an international court.
It proves that the most powerful faction gets to play judge.

Serbia should play its own game. Don't fall for empty promises. Stay firm - "non-alligned" - cooperate with west but also with world future leaders - China, Russia, India etc.
But it's only "small" problem - Serbia doesn't have leader of that calibre to execute the plan.

@(lee coleman , london UK ., 25 April 2008 17:47)

who even cares what the dutch think ? there talking now like there of some importance to in the EU . when you have matured like your cheese to the level of the UK or germany then come back and play with the big boys , until then ... shut it .

----------------------

Well mister Coleman, if i where i would put an sok in it, we (the dutch) are one off the richest and biggest paying contributor to the EU, we pay more than the UK and we pay more than the Germans, we are the biggest netto payer in the EU.

We co-founded the EU with the kick-off being the BeNeLux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxemburg).

So where does that leave the UK, No euro, the UK doesn't wanna pay but has an goddamn big mouth just based that it once was an empire, an empire that has had it's kicked several times by the Dutch it even went as far that King William is an DUTCHMAN, also known as Koning Willem 3, and soon an direct descendent from him will become our next monarch and will be known as Koning Willem IV.

Peter Sudyka, concerning EU membership you wrote:

Something that Norway, Switzerland, Iceland, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the United States didn't need in order to become prosperous countries. This shows that a country can become prosperous without being an EU member state.

Peter, these countries were not ruined by 50 years of communism! The economies of Poland and Romania were ruined by communism. This is why I believe that all the former communist countries of Eastern Europe have to join the EU in order to achieve economic well being. The EU has the power to help the former communist countries to develop from an economic and political point of view.

Serbia is blackmailing Europe with the danger of having nationalists coming onto power. Well, Serbia needs to realize that the danger comes from the Serbian constituents who vote for these thugs. If Serbian people want to join EU, they need to vote for people who truly care about the Serbian nation. So far, none of the serbian political parties have shown any seriousness to improve the lives of Serbian people. Why Should Europe care about the lives of Serbs when Serbia does not give a damn about it?!!!
I am very thankful that Netherlands has taken a prudent step, perse. Serbia needs to hand Karadzic and Mladic before any agreement comes into discussions.
To Serbs,
If you truly care about your well-being start to think about what leader wants you to prosper and improve your lives.
Russia, as I saw yesterday, gives you expired can food, no wonder when 59 million Russians live under extreme poverty. It's good they send aid to serbs but expired food?!!!
The obscure nationalism that offers nothing but misery has been steeply embedded to Serbs, thanks to other previous regimes and now it seems as it is still going on. There is no doubt that there are thousands of serbs, 800,000 people who never vote, because Serbian politicians do not offer them any realistic opportunity to improve their lives.
Europe and America are Serbia's truest allies but these Serb leaders are about to destroy your lives. I am sad! I want Serbs to prosper, accept the reality and join its family, Europe.
Remember, until these dogmas over Kosovo, “West hates Serbia” and Serbia's pseudo-democrats blackmailing Europe using startling rhetoric "Nacionalists are coming" leads you to nowhere. We don't give a damn what Serbia chooses for its leadership. Serb politicians need to send this message to their constituents and not to Europe. Europe wants to help you but you need to start helping yourselves in the first place.
I hope Serbia makes the right decisions because Serbs deserve a bright future!

Have a good day,

American Dutch

I agree with the Dutch stance with regards to Mladic. He definitely does need to be judged for what he did. I do, however, get the impression that Holland is somewhat complexed over Serbia due to their incompetence at Srebrenica. Perhaps Srebrenica should have been dealt with by a more competent force, such as the US, UK, Poland, Germany or Ukraine, the massacre might have been avoided altogether.

EU does need Serbia and it is obvious. Who is going to support the so called republic of Kosovo?
Read the link below and decide for yourself who needs whom.
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/irish-solution-to-kosovan-problem-1360387.html

I am proud to be still a Dutchman! After so many years full of promisses and lies from the side of the Serbian authorities that they can't find those criminals, who killed so many innocent people, it is time for me to say: "Don't come into the European family, because you aren't welcome!" You may call this Serbophobe.

Thank you Holland for being so prudent not to let this country into the EU which votes mainly right-wing parties and hides war criminals of the worst sort. We don't want and, especially, we don't need you!

Goodbye!

Serbia is blackmailing Europe with the danger of having nationalists coming onto power. Well, Serbia needs to realize that the danger comes from the Serbian constituents who vote for these thugs. If Serbian people want to join EU, they need to vote for people who truly care about the Serbian nation. So far, none of the serbian political parties have shown any seriousness to improve the lives of Serbian people. Why Should Europe care about the lives of Serbs when Serbia does not give a damn about it?!!!
I am very thankful that Netherlands has taken a prudent step, perse. Serbia needs to hand Karadzic and Mladic before any agreement comes into discussions.
To Serbs,
If you truly care about your well-being start to think about what leader wants you to prosper and improve your lives.
Russia, as I saw yesterday, gives you expired can food, no wonder when 59 million Russians live under extreme poverty. It's good they send aid to serbs but expired food?!!!
The obscure nationalism that offers nothing but misery has been steeply embedded to Serbs, thanks to other previous regimes and now it seems as it is still going on. There is no doubt that there are thousands of serbs, 800,000 people who never vote, because Serbian politicians do not offer them any realistic opportunity to improve their lives.
Europe and America are Serbia's truest allies but these Serb leaders are about to destroy your lives. I am sad! I want Serbs to prosper, accept the reality and join its family, Europe.
Remember, until these dogmas over Kosovo, “West hates Serbia” and Serbia's pseudo-democrats blackmailing Europe using startling rhetoric "Nacionalists are coming" leads you to nowhere. We don't give a damn what Serbia chooses for its leadership. Serb politicians need to send this message to their constituents and not to Europe. Europe wants to help you but you need to start helping yourselves in the first place.
I hope Serbia makes the right decisions because Serbs deserve a bright future!

Have a good day,

American Dutch

The Dutch are right: Serbia obviously isn't ready for anything resembling serious negotiations with the EU yet. The "democratic forces" seem to be in a weak position indeed if their success depends on whether or not Serbia gets preferential treatment from the EU, and while they have my sympathies for this predicament and I wish them every success with improving their country's politics, the majority of their countrymen simply don't seem to be ready yet...

The only Dutch soldier killed at Srebrenica was killed by a Bosnian Muslim soldier during the withdrawal.

Both the Dutch and the huge Muslim army withdrew and did not fight, so essentially the much smaller Serb forces just walked in.

The civilians were given bus rides to Tuzla airport by Serb civilian bus drivers and escorted by the Dutch.

There were running fights of the Bosnian army as it trekked many miles from the Srebrenica enclave to Muslim-controlled territory.

It's always strange why the larger Muslim army in Srebrenica and in the defensive position advantage was ordered to leave and not fight. Both the UN and the Muslim army commanders told their soldiers to leave their defenses all around the city.

Many thousands of men poured into Tuzla about a week after the fall. The true numbers of those who made it versus those who lost their lives may never be known for all the exaggerated propaganda.

Additionally, the Muslim army fallen from Zepa are included in the names of the "dead or missing" from Srebrenica.

There is also no factoring out battle deaths so the numbers of alleged POW killed at the fall of Srebrenica is very exaggerated.

It should be known that the Dutch protected Naser Oric and his 28th Brigade when they slunk out and carried out a scorched earth policy on all surrounding Serb villages and territories beyond they could reach.

They even videotaped their killings of Serbs and the burnt out ruins of their villages.

These were the kind of people the Dutch protected for years. The Dutch protected Muslim terrorists who decapitated Serbs and killed them with "explosives" and "cold weapons" (knives, for example) to quote Naser Oric himself.

@(lee coleman , london UK ., 25 April 2008 17:47)

who even cares what the dutch think ? there talking now like there of some importance to in the EU . when you have matured like your cheese to the level of the UK or germany then come back and play with the big boys , until then ... shut it .

----------------------

Well mister Coleman, if i where i would put an sok in it, we (the dutch) are one off the richest and biggest paying contributor to the EU, we pay more than the UK and we pay more than the Germans, we are the biggest netto payer in the EU.

We co-founded the EU with the kick-off being the BeNeLux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxemburg).

So where does that leave the UK, No euro, the UK doesn't wanna pay but has an goddamn big mouth just based that it once was an empire, an empire that has had it's kicked several times by the Dutch it even went as far that King William is an DUTCHMAN, also known as Koning Willem 3, and soon an direct descendent from him will become our next monarch and will be known as Koning Willem IV.

The Dutch are delusional, but in a way that advantages Serbia.

Serbia will never hand over Mladic or Karadzic, even if they were living there. Why should they co-operate with a court set up by NATO? A court that killed Milosevic by denying him medical treatment? A court that is solely there to convict Serbians and some low level criminals but to acquit those friendly to NATO?

The whole court is a farce and I'll be glad when Serbia makes that clear and tells the EU that it will only join under its own terms. Not some set by delusional governments or enemies.

Quite simply, the EU needs us more than we need them, which is the reason for this attempt to sign the SAA.

The investment stream coming into Serbia is endlessly growing stronger and stronger so the EU can wait.

As a Dutchman I am proud of my Government. The Dutch people will never forget the immages of Duch souldiers tied into telephone poles in Srebenica by Mlladic soldiers. It is time for Serbia to understand that there is no E.U without these thugs in Hage.

Peter Sudyka, concerning EU membership you wrote:

Something that Norway, Switzerland, Iceland, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the United States didn't need in order to become prosperous countries. This shows that a country can become prosperous without being an EU member state.

Peter, these countries were not ruined by 50 years of communism! The economies of Poland and Romania were ruined by communism. This is why I believe that all the former communist countries of Eastern Europe have to join the EU in order to achieve economic well being. The EU has the power to help the former communist countries to develop from an economic and political point of view.

The Dutch are being pure racists. Why didn't they apply the same principle to Croatia? The Dutch allowed Srebrenica to be a safe haven for muslim murdering Serbs in the surrounding villages in the 1990s, and now they are trying to hit the Serbs from another direction.

I am so sick and tired of these self-righteous Dutch.

They stand back and allow the Srebrenica muslims to massacre over 3,000 Serbian civilians in the surrounding villages including women and children.

The biggest crime in Srebrenica was that the Dutch should have stopped the muslims from from their murderous incursions before the Serbs were forcced to.

Where is the Dutch condemnation of the muslim crimes or for their on inactions?

Why is that when the Serbs kill over 3,000 muslim men of military age, they're villified while when the mulims massacre over 3,000 Serbian men, women and children, they're suddenly hopeless victims?

Why is it that 'revenge' attacks are accepted only when the perpetrators are non-Serbs?

Shame on you all.

Mr. Dutch Canadian,

What makes you think we Serbs even want to join the EU? Why would we join a club where some members are more equal than others, where most of the big boys don't recognize Serbia's sovereign borders, where many of the big boys bombed Serbia illegally for 78 days (a war crime)...??
Where was the EU when the entire Serb population of Krajina was ethnically cleansed? This was REAL genocide, hundreds of years of history wiped out in one weekend. Where? I will tell you where, they were helping the war criminal cleansers, their Croat friends.
So, no, the EU does not deserve, and is not worthy of having a free, independent, noble, and proud nation such as Serbia in its club. We want no part of it. So tell the Europeans to send Solana and the 'humanitarian bombers' to the Hague, to pay back the billions in damage they did to Serb infrastructure, to rescind their illegal recognition of that fake/illegal/immoral state run by organ traffickers, and then MAYBE...MAAAAYBEEE...we will consider it. Get on your knees and pray EU, pray!!
Otherwise, good riddance!

Cheers!

To all Dutchmen,especially Dutch-Canadian on this site,I'm ready to welcome you in my home in Alberta.We can have beer(Molson Canadian,eh?)and open dialogue about anything.I'm not prejudiced toward Dutch in any way,shape or form,please show me equal respect.Can't call yourself tolerant Canadian with such open animosity toward Serbian people.Cheers!

Nobody believes that the Dutch do not know why Mladic & Karadzic are still at large (see Hartman's interview): this also means that their opposition has if not the sole purpose then the sole consequence of pushing Serbia into the 11/5 electoral defeat of the democratic forces.

Dutch Canadian,

After 18 years of digging and satelite scanning, Holland is unable to produce the location of so called mass graves.

I agree with the Dutch stance with regards to Mladic. He definitely does need to be judged for what he did. I do, however, get the impression that Holland is somewhat complexed over Serbia due to their incompetence at Srebrenica. Perhaps Srebrenica should have been dealt with by a more competent force, such as the US, UK, Poland, Germany or Ukraine, the massacre might have been avoided altogether.

Dutch Uncle.Dutch music.Dutch treatment.Yeah and the most caracteristic:Dutch Courage.
A county which will be under the water in 50 years.

@Dutch Canadian: B92 forum calls for a higher level of discussion and more dignity and objectivity; one day we shall know more about why and how the Dutch UN soldiers left Srebrenica alone.

Serbia remains the only free country in Europe and will not sign whatever the dev...€USSR/USA comes up with in order to disintegrate it. Next election will make sure of that, which by the way, is the only election in Europe where you have a REAL choise. Not just between two or more identical IMF-slave parties

Mircea

I agree that the EU has the potential to improve the economies of the former communist bloc, my argument is that it was too soon for us.

I think that those economies should have had fully functioning trade blocs between themselves, developing each other to the stage where we could smoothly enter the EU, and not the rude shock that both our countries and the rest of CEE felt.

For example, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary had the Visegrad Group, the Baltic States had their own, there was CEFTA (Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Croatia, Macedonia, Moldova and Montenegro), Romania and Bulgaria could have formed a joint bloc too, perhaps with Albania, and waited a good few years, weathering the changes at their own pace in order for eventual, smooth transition into the EU. I think it was by far too soon, and many countries have become prosperous in Europe without the EU (though you are perfectly right with the Communist argument).

To be perfectly honest, only Slovenia and Estonia (maybe the Czech Republic) were ready for the EU, the rest were simply not, and that is what drove so many of us Westward.

Chris Wilson

I think the word you are looking for is xenophobia. Croats and Serbs are not a separate race from each other (though they might think they are, hehe, with Serbs claiming to be Slavs and Croats either Iranians or Goths).

It's very good news for Serbia ! No more blackmail ! Thank you the Dutch ! Yesterday I feared that they will formally open the door to reveal the main list of US-EU demands after the elections.

I really believe that ordinary Dutch people may oppose Serbian integration like the Dutch Canadian to post here. But I don't think that the Dutch elite integrated so much into EU elite will dare to have a private point of view of their own. Look this is the first time when the Dutch elite opposes Atlantic solidarity in a quetion being of no special importance for Holland.

I guess the thing is that the Yankees do realize that the SAA will not help Tadic while it may create further problems with Serbia. So the Dutch were told to stand firm. I've got a Dutch friend of mine to explain me the sentimental nature of this people. They are not to search for scandals. They just work without aatracting attention. So what we see now is not the Dutch way of behaniior. But it's good for Serbia from many points of view.

who even cares what the dutch think ? there talking now like there of some importance to in the EU . when you have matured like your cheese to the level of the UK or germany then come back and play with the big boys , until then ... shut it .

Dutch Canadian, there is a single difference between you and your authorities: You, openly and honestly say that we are not welcomed in European family. Your authorities are liars. They are inventing all the time excuses, new and newer conditions, as to avoid saying the truth which you just said. If EU would openly say you just did, we would be less disappointed and we would think what to do. Thus, we ere being discriminated by US and EU. We - as the people, not particular regime, or politician, but WE. Our children, students, men, women, young, old...

The dutch news (www.nrc.nl) says the government let go of the demand to have Mladic arrested in order to sign the SAA,and that a creative solution has to be found in the future.

So i don't know who to believe.
I in fact respect the dutch government for being stubborn in this case in order to see "international justice" instead of pragmatism and compromise. However they chose the latter by recognizing kosovo, so there goes all the credibility of The Hague as an international court.
It proves that the most powerful faction gets to play judge.

The Dutch are punishing the Serbs for their own criminal negligence so they can feel better about themselves. The truth is A terrible crime was committed at Srebrenica, and not just by the Serbs.

Regardless of motivations, the Dutch are clearly doing Serbia a favor; without their obstruction the DS could very well have signed this capitulation and permanently damaged Serbia’s interests. The Dutch clearly took a side in Srebrenica way before the alleged events happened, but that is irrelevant; thank you Holland!

So many Serbia-haters on this chat that it is becoming desguisting. Let me make this clear to everyone now: it is not important at all for Serbia to enter EU now or soon, important is that is no longer a country with 1 party and in the war, but a democratic society. As far as the Dutch government's blackmailing is concerned, every governement in EU knows that it was the Dutch battalion that betrayed the Muslim enclave and handled it to Mladic. It is only the matter of tact from the European politicians that they do not point it directly to the Dutch and leave them to understand it by themselves. It is not easy to accept: to participate in the crime under the flag od United Nations, but it must be accepted sooner or later. Ratko Mladic may be very well in Serbia, but also in Holland or USA.

to: American Dutch

" Russia, as I saw yesterday, gives you expired can food, no wonder when 59 million Russians live under extreme poverty. It's good they send aid to serbs but expired food?!!! "

No matter if you are American Dutch or a Dutch American on behalf the Serbs and the Russians I appreciate you to care so much of us.

So I have two good news for you :

1. The Russian foods shipped to Kosovo and Metohjia were not out of date. It was a Western propagandist duck. We are not in any case going to poison our brothers. So don't worry of the Serbs. Best thing the Dutch could do for them was to bar the SAA and many of the Serbs will be grateful to you to help them remain independent.

2. The 59 mln figures were real when West sponsored Eltsin ruled Russia 8,5 years. Putin made the figures almost 3 times less of what you insist on. Those were rough times for Russia when colonial contracts like Sakhalin-1 and Sakhalin-2 with Royal Dutch-Shell were imposed on Russia. But those times are not to be back. So don't worry of Russia too. Somehow we are going to cope with the challenges you ( or at least the American part of you ) constantly export here.

Serbia should play its own game. Don't fall for empty promises. Stay firm - "non-alligned" - cooperate with west but also with world future leaders - China, Russia, India etc.
But it's only "small" problem - Serbia doesn't have leader of that calibre to execute the plan.

What nonsense that the EU Brussels is going to be the Saviour of Eastern Europe. Look at what has happened in East Germany over 20% unemployment after many of 100s of billions spent in east Germany and people leaving in droves this is after all coming up two decades. They will help them selfs to resources and to profitable Co and cheap labor and the profits back to their country's.

I want to express my delight that I finally agree with the Dutch.
Serbia shouldn't join the EU.
The reason has nothing to do with Karadzic and Mladic, but because the Serbs are realizing that the EU is demonstrating all the disgusting characteristics of Austro-Hungarian Empire: a collection of impotent nations competing cravenly for favours like beggars.
Serbs (the nation, not its politicians) are not Croats or Albanians or Slovenes, they dont accept easily to be tutored from abroad and would only cause the trouble to the EU just as they did it to the Austro-Hungarians and Ottomans.
Neither are we Dutch nor will we ever be, and you know what? We don't give a damn about it. Just stop pretending that you are worrying about us because that is beginning to irritate us seriously.
And,if the Serbs get mad they may send you into p.m. (ask some Serbian friend to translate this for you).
So, no hard feelings Dutchies, we wish you the best of luck in your life below the sea level.

@italy, 25 April 2008 19:12

Yes it was an dutch batallion (actually there where only about 150 dutch men in the enclave) that did nothing, they did nothing because an FRENCH general REFUSED air support for those 150 men, 150 men that where facing about 4000 enemy soldier's guess what would have happend if they fought back, then there would be not 8000 men dead, it would be 8150 men dead.

But that's not the point, everyone knows that the enclave's where traded for the relief off the Sarajevo siege.

That's the real reason why no one in the west wants to see Karadizc & Mladic in the Hague, the west also knows damn well that the mortar that was fired on the market in Sarajevo never could have been fired from the serbs beacuse the range off the particular mortar is to small to ever have come from the serbs.

Srebrenica was given up by the big country's, first off the dutch where the only one's willing the go to Srebrenica, the rest did not want to go, not the US, not the UK, not France etc etc

ANd to all the serbs, we know that the Muslims attacked the the serb village's around srebrenica, we where not allowed to do anything about it.

And for all the criticasters, i visited Srebrenica and have an lot off frends who served there and some off there where there when it fell, they still feel sick about it because they wanted to do something about the raids and do something about the attack on Srebrenica, bu they got orders from the high command to do nothing.

If Mladic would go on trial it would become clear that the entire West is guilty off doing absolutly nothing about Srebrenica.

1. The dutch weren't allowed to fight.
2. The french General refused air support
3. The nato refused air support
4. The UN deemed the life off an dutch soldier more valuable than the life off an Bosnian Muslim or Serb.

And if where scared to fight, then tell me why we are currently fighting in 1 off the province's off Afghanistan which houses the most Taliban.

We are not scared to fight, we where just not allowed to fight.

I will encourage the serbs not to enter the EU. What your country need is economic growth, not the EU. My country Norway is not a member, and thank God for that.

EU does need Serbia and it is obvious. Who is going to support the so called republic of Kosovo?
Read the link below and decide for yourself who needs whom.
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/irish-solution-to-kosovan-problem-1360387.html