Albanian FM dismisses organ trafficking claims

I think Carla Del Ponte would have legal insight far beyond the understanding of the Albanian FM to know if her book was libelous.

The fact that the Albanians do not even want to investigate shows signs of desperation, denial and cover up. Moreover, if there was nothing to cover up then he would have been more open to an investigation rather then poor attempts at dismissing them.

The fact remains that evidence was given to indicate that 300 innocent people were removed from Serbia and placed in prison camps in Northern Albania - that is not at dispute and is a war crime in itself! But what happened to them required further investigation and in this regard there was a clear signal from within UNMIK to block further and substantial investigations... that in itself is highly damning and has to lead to a full and independent inquiry with those responsible being answerable for their actions in blocking a war crime and justice!

Of course it is now common knowledge that the Hague is not set up to deal with atrocities commited against Serbs since its masters set it up to justify its own illegality with the mission statement - Innocent until proven Serb! So a seperate court must look into these war crime allegations fully and without hinderance even if it may not be so comforting for the West who have obfuscated and acted in the most ill principled and illegal manner.

Were the people of albania worried thet they housed al-kaida mujahedins or human trafficking or drugs galore,NO they did not.So bashas baulking looks like poorly rehersed tantrum.
Monstrosity of this crimes can`t go unanswered regardless of his title and who he want`s to protect.

Some days ago in television News24 ex premier minister in 1999 Pandeli Majko was asked whether he had heard something about missing or abduction of 300 Serbs who were transported from Kosovo to Albania as claimed on Del Ponte book.

In the same way he called them „fictions“ based on the facts that: during his time as PM and after that he had met with Del Ponte several times but she never asked him such a question about missing abducted Serbs from Kosovo in Albania. If Albanian authorities were cooperative in this issue (according to Serbs) how is possible that in 1999 there exist not even single sign of proof, when it is well known that in north Albania in 1999 there were not only police and military forces but also a lot of humanitarian organizations, journalists, HRW, NATO forces, TV groups etc. Moreover Del Ponte could have contributed better 8 years ago than now. Mr. Majko strongly opposed the allegations of Del Ponte as „owl voices“ and nothing more. As for investigation, there were such (from international observers) in 2002 – 2004 in the place of supposed yellow house but they resulted in no real facts. Even some days ago the TV News 24 made an investigation by visiting the place but no sign of proof was found.

Probably you want some people from Russia to investigate because US & EU aren’t trusted but only Russians & China are. It is about human being and I think that no country would tolerate such crimes. Don’t interpret these issues as they suites you best. You do not trust US, EU, UN, UNMIK… to whom then?

> Albania's foreign minister has baulked at claims of the murder of Serb civilians in Albania and the smuggling of their organs, calling them “fictitious."

Not good enough Mr Basha.

An international investigation must be carried out into this claim, regardless of how little evidence remains after all this time.

The nature of the crimes described demands it, as even the pro-US human-rights organisation 'Human Right Watch' realises.

And the longer people like you & Thaci try to prevent this, the more it looks like you have something to hide.

Serbs should preoccupy yourself with those WAR CRIMINAL instead of fictional stories...who are you going to chase next? Harry Potter?

This is unfortunate because if it is mentioned enough times, it stays on people ears even if proven wrong. Shocking connections such as these are hard to remove. As to whether this actually occurred, I personally doubt it. On what basis:
1. Urban Myth: the nature of the allegations seems too stereotypical of urban myth scare stories. As far as I know, there have been no previous cases where people were forcibly removed their organs without a volunteer consent. There is a black market for them, but people sell them voluntarily cause price is high (kidneys).
2. Too much international attention in area for something to this extent to go unnoticed.
3. Lack of evidence. War criminals in Balkans have a hard time covering small massacres, yet an international and much larger one like this passes unnoticed.
4. I do not think there was an infrastructure, security, and technology for something like this to occur. Organ transplants are complicated issues, KLA fighters were not that sophisticated.
5. Usually, organ transplants are done with the presence of donor and receiver; their transportation is fairly complex, yet we are too believe that 300 people were maintained imprisoned, have complicated surgeries at near the same time (300 people!) and then organs shipped through NATO controlled (at the time) Rinas airport. Yeah right!
6. Why was not there a surplus of organs in foreign hospitals. That's a lot of organs in a short time. How come foreign hospitals decided to ignore where this organs come from when they have very strict background check policies.
7. Why was not this brought by Del Ponte before, why didn't she at least inform Western politicans, human rights organizations etc. Why is not UN or Swiss gov. taking her seriously? The Swiss are known to be independent.
Moreover, I would like to add a few things that I find strange, but do not tell much about whether this actually occurred.
1. Timing of the event is horrible considering Kosovo's declaration of independence just occurred. Merely a coincidence.
2. Timing, after she was removed from the Tribunal; is it again accusations that experts will not know to be true but among general populations can be used as negative propaganda. Especially now that it is impossible to say nothing occurred because it can always be covered up by 7 years occurred.
3. Finally, many people including current head of tribunal implied that this are fabrications. Not just Albania.
Ultimately, I think that the Serbian side should view this with more caution. Nationalism and such type of incitement of ethnic hatred only brings problems. If you actually believe Del Ponte's stories, and love your country, then you should accuse Del Ponte more strongly than the Albanians for doing nothing, why she had such information, as the head of the tribunal. But, I'm afraid what is looked for is another excuse to equate Albanians with terrorists.

But, I'm afraid what is looked for is another excuse to equate Albanians with terrorists.
(Alfonso, 24 April 2008 19:10)

- Alfonso could you mean all these and the so many more(as you might put it) "false" rumours [sic];

U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen canceled a visit to Albania this week to avoid a "hornets' nest" of Osama bin Laden operatives, CNN has learned.
http://edition.cnn.com/US/9907/15/cohen.albania/

Albanian terrorism after Milosevic-Holbrooke accord
http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/politics/kosovo/documents/terrorism_oct14.html

U.S. intelligence officials are investigating ties between the terrorists who carried out suicide airliner attacks and associates of Osama bin Laden based in Albania.
http://www.intellnet.org/news/2001/09/18/6861-1.htm

A bomb attack on a bus convoy that was carrying more than 250 Serbs to a religious ceremony in Kosovo, has claimed the lives of at least seven people, including women and children, and injured more than 40.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/16/newsid_4145000/4145607.stm

The Nato commander in overall charge of Kosovo has likened the recent violence in the province - in which at least 28 people have died - to ethnic cleansing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3551571.stm

Federal authorities say one of the men accused of planning an attack on soldiers at the Fort Dix army base gave another inmate in a federal detention center an Al Qaeda recruitment video and another wrote a note referring to the fight "we weren't able to finish."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316514,00.html

Alfonso no doubt these as you put it 'false' rumoours are all spread by the Serb promoting CNN, BBC, Fox news wires but you know what they say about there being no smoke without...

The decent thing the Albanian authorities can do is investigate what happened to those 300 Serbs who were wrongfully imprisoned and to never be seen again irrespective of their organs being removed - and that seems little in dispute!

What do you say ? Should the Albanian goverment put money and manpower on investigating somthing that comes from rumors ?? Carla del Pontes book the ''organtrade'' is based rumors.

Apologists for the albanians keep posting the same 'reasons' why this crime could not possibly have happened.

And ALL of these 'reasons' have been refuted.

I have written extremely extensively about this before & will not regurgitate it all again. But for those who actually want facts & logical reasoning rather than propaganda, here is the link:

http://xs4.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=49413

My relevant posts are #6 & #14. 'Nemanja, Connecticut's post (#8) is also relevant.


Endri, Albania:
Saying that del Ponte's initial mission to the 'yellow house' constitutes sufficient international investigation into this matter just shows what your real goals are - to cover up & deny.

KS:
Using capitals in an attempt to sidestep the issue here is pretty transparent.


Sven:
The albanian govt has a credibility of 'zilch'. It has close ties to ex-KLA. And both of these 'authorities' have been so penetrated by the albanian mafia, that it is hard to see to where one ends & the other begins.

Oh, & here is a link (courtesy of 'bganon') to what del Ponte actually says in her book about the topic at hand - so people can judge for themselves rather than relying on your say so:

http://listserv.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0804&L=JUSTWATCH-L&T=0&O=D&P=179705


Alphonso:
In post #9, you refered to 'Princip, UK' as 'Alphonso'. With a typo, people do not usually get themselves confused with another. Perhaps is because you do not usually associate yourself with the name 'Alphonso'.

As for everything else you've raised, see above.


Will repeat this bit from previous post, as have not had any response to it thus far.

The pro K-albanian camp keeps bringing up reasons why the charges cannot be true. And the pro serb camp keeps knocking them down.

So let's approach the allegations from 'another direction'.

Is obvious that some type of surgery was performed in the 'yellow house'. For any reasonable person, this is a given. Is also obvious that attempts have been made to hide these activities.

Allegations of 'organ harvesting' & murder have been made, backed up by statements from both serbs & some albanians, together with other circumstantial evidence.

Tell me please, if not 'organ removal', then what surgeries were performed at the 'yellow house'?

And why were these surgeries 'covered up'?

Indeed, Alfonso that is my exact point. You do not look at thinks with caution by try to look at everything negative. No, that's not propaganda, and yes, possibly there have been al-qaeda operatives in Albania, but they have also been in Sweden, Greece, Austria US, Spain, France,Germany etc. As far as I know, the policy of the government of Albania has been completely against such organizations, and the Albanian people are some of the most pro-American. So what is the point of your allegations? I guess you guys have not made up your mind, are Albanians US pawns or terrorists? Moreover, I like the links that you posted on BBC and CNN. Do you know how many more articles BBC and CNN have had about Serbian atrocities (by the way the kind where the bodies have been found)?

Indeed, my name is not Alphonso, but that is of little importance; the name neither adds nor erases from the argument. As to your response, Peter:
Allegations do not make facts, neither do rumours. When there is evidence behind this book, it will be accepted. Such evidence should have been found, if the crime has occurred, by the nature of the crime and the institutional weakness of KLA.
Of course, Del Ponte says that there was evidence, but for some unknown reason, while she had the power to investigate, she does not! Why did she not ask to go around the area, take satellite pictures and whatever, to find those mass graves, while there were still fresh? Such technology exists. Why did she not mention of other Western govs. and the Albanian gov. being such a pawn would have no way of telling them no? Instead, she never mentions until it is too late. You bring arguments about the yellow house and what else would have been there, but I get the point of Del Ponte's book. The problem is that by her own behavior (ignoring them while she had power), by the reaction of independent players like ICTY, Swiss gov etc, and by the lack of evidence, her book loses a great deal of credibility.

Serbs should preoccupy yourself with those WAR CRIMINAL instead of fictional stories...who are you going to chase next? Harry Potter?

Some days ago in television News24 ex premier minister in 1999 Pandeli Majko was asked whether he had heard something about missing or abduction of 300 Serbs who were transported from Kosovo to Albania as claimed on Del Ponte book.

In the same way he called them „fictions“ based on the facts that: during his time as PM and after that he had met with Del Ponte several times but she never asked him such a question about missing abducted Serbs from Kosovo in Albania. If Albanian authorities were cooperative in this issue (according to Serbs) how is possible that in 1999 there exist not even single sign of proof, when it is well known that in north Albania in 1999 there were not only police and military forces but also a lot of humanitarian organizations, journalists, HRW, NATO forces, TV groups etc. Moreover Del Ponte could have contributed better 8 years ago than now. Mr. Majko strongly opposed the allegations of Del Ponte as „owl voices“ and nothing more. As for investigation, there were such (from international observers) in 2002 – 2004 in the place of supposed yellow house but they resulted in no real facts. Even some days ago the TV News 24 made an investigation by visiting the place but no sign of proof was found.

Probably you want some people from Russia to investigate because US & EU aren’t trusted but only Russians & China are. It is about human being and I think that no country would tolerate such crimes. Don’t interpret these issues as they suites you best. You do not trust US, EU, UN, UNMIK… to whom then?

What do you say ? Should the Albanian goverment put money and manpower on investigating somthing that comes from rumors ?? Carla del Pontes book the ''organtrade'' is based rumors.

This is unfortunate because if it is mentioned enough times, it stays on people ears even if proven wrong. Shocking connections such as these are hard to remove. As to whether this actually occurred, I personally doubt it. On what basis:
1. Urban Myth: the nature of the allegations seems too stereotypical of urban myth scare stories. As far as I know, there have been no previous cases where people were forcibly removed their organs without a volunteer consent. There is a black market for them, but people sell them voluntarily cause price is high (kidneys).
2. Too much international attention in area for something to this extent to go unnoticed.
3. Lack of evidence. War criminals in Balkans have a hard time covering small massacres, yet an international and much larger one like this passes unnoticed.
4. I do not think there was an infrastructure, security, and technology for something like this to occur. Organ transplants are complicated issues, KLA fighters were not that sophisticated.
5. Usually, organ transplants are done with the presence of donor and receiver; their transportation is fairly complex, yet we are too believe that 300 people were maintained imprisoned, have complicated surgeries at near the same time (300 people!) and then organs shipped through NATO controlled (at the time) Rinas airport. Yeah right!
6. Why was not there a surplus of organs in foreign hospitals. That's a lot of organs in a short time. How come foreign hospitals decided to ignore where this organs come from when they have very strict background check policies.
7. Why was not this brought by Del Ponte before, why didn't she at least inform Western politicans, human rights organizations etc. Why is not UN or Swiss gov. taking her seriously? The Swiss are known to be independent.
Moreover, I would like to add a few things that I find strange, but do not tell much about whether this actually occurred.
1. Timing of the event is horrible considering Kosovo's declaration of independence just occurred. Merely a coincidence.
2. Timing, after she was removed from the Tribunal; is it again accusations that experts will not know to be true but among general populations can be used as negative propaganda. Especially now that it is impossible to say nothing occurred because it can always be covered up by 7 years occurred.
3. Finally, many people including current head of tribunal implied that this are fabrications. Not just Albania.
Ultimately, I think that the Serbian side should view this with more caution. Nationalism and such type of incitement of ethnic hatred only brings problems. If you actually believe Del Ponte's stories, and love your country, then you should accuse Del Ponte more strongly than the Albanians for doing nothing, why she had such information, as the head of the tribunal. But, I'm afraid what is looked for is another excuse to equate Albanians with terrorists.

Indeed, Alfonso that is my exact point. You do not look at thinks with caution by try to look at everything negative. No, that's not propaganda, and yes, possibly there have been al-qaeda operatives in Albania, but they have also been in Sweden, Greece, Austria US, Spain, France,Germany etc. As far as I know, the policy of the government of Albania has been completely against such organizations, and the Albanian people are some of the most pro-American. So what is the point of your allegations? I guess you guys have not made up your mind, are Albanians US pawns or terrorists? Moreover, I like the links that you posted on BBC and CNN. Do you know how many more articles BBC and CNN have had about Serbian atrocities (by the way the kind where the bodies have been found)?

Were the people of albania worried thet they housed al-kaida mujahedins or human trafficking or drugs galore,NO they did not.So bashas baulking looks like poorly rehersed tantrum.
Monstrosity of this crimes can`t go unanswered regardless of his title and who he want`s to protect.

I think Carla Del Ponte would have legal insight far beyond the understanding of the Albanian FM to know if her book was libelous.

The fact that the Albanians do not even want to investigate shows signs of desperation, denial and cover up. Moreover, if there was nothing to cover up then he would have been more open to an investigation rather then poor attempts at dismissing them.

The fact remains that evidence was given to indicate that 300 innocent people were removed from Serbia and placed in prison camps in Northern Albania - that is not at dispute and is a war crime in itself! But what happened to them required further investigation and in this regard there was a clear signal from within UNMIK to block further and substantial investigations... that in itself is highly damning and has to lead to a full and independent inquiry with those responsible being answerable for their actions in blocking a war crime and justice!

Of course it is now common knowledge that the Hague is not set up to deal with atrocities commited against Serbs since its masters set it up to justify its own illegality with the mission statement - Innocent until proven Serb! So a seperate court must look into these war crime allegations fully and without hinderance even if it may not be so comforting for the West who have obfuscated and acted in the most ill principled and illegal manner.

> Albania's foreign minister has baulked at claims of the murder of Serb civilians in Albania and the smuggling of their organs, calling them “fictitious."

Not good enough Mr Basha.

An international investigation must be carried out into this claim, regardless of how little evidence remains after all this time.

The nature of the crimes described demands it, as even the pro-US human-rights organisation 'Human Right Watch' realises.

And the longer people like you & Thaci try to prevent this, the more it looks like you have something to hide.

But, I'm afraid what is looked for is another excuse to equate Albanians with terrorists.
(Alfonso, 24 April 2008 19:10)

- Alfonso could you mean all these and the so many more(as you might put it) "false" rumours [sic];

U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen canceled a visit to Albania this week to avoid a "hornets' nest" of Osama bin Laden operatives, CNN has learned.
http://edition.cnn.com/US/9907/15/cohen.albania/

Albanian terrorism after Milosevic-Holbrooke accord
http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/politics/kosovo/documents/terrorism_oct14.html

U.S. intelligence officials are investigating ties between the terrorists who carried out suicide airliner attacks and associates of Osama bin Laden based in Albania.
http://www.intellnet.org/news/2001/09/18/6861-1.htm

A bomb attack on a bus convoy that was carrying more than 250 Serbs to a religious ceremony in Kosovo, has claimed the lives of at least seven people, including women and children, and injured more than 40.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/16/newsid_4145000/4145607.stm

The Nato commander in overall charge of Kosovo has likened the recent violence in the province - in which at least 28 people have died - to ethnic cleansing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3551571.stm

Federal authorities say one of the men accused of planning an attack on soldiers at the Fort Dix army base gave another inmate in a federal detention center an Al Qaeda recruitment video and another wrote a note referring to the fight "we weren't able to finish."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316514,00.html

Alfonso no doubt these as you put it 'false' rumoours are all spread by the Serb promoting CNN, BBC, Fox news wires but you know what they say about there being no smoke without...

The decent thing the Albanian authorities can do is investigate what happened to those 300 Serbs who were wrongfully imprisoned and to never be seen again irrespective of their organs being removed - and that seems little in dispute!

Apologists for the albanians keep posting the same 'reasons' why this crime could not possibly have happened.

And ALL of these 'reasons' have been refuted.

I have written extremely extensively about this before & will not regurgitate it all again. But for those who actually want facts & logical reasoning rather than propaganda, here is the link:

http://xs4.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=49413

My relevant posts are #6 & #14. 'Nemanja, Connecticut's post (#8) is also relevant.


Endri, Albania:
Saying that del Ponte's initial mission to the 'yellow house' constitutes sufficient international investigation into this matter just shows what your real goals are - to cover up & deny.

KS:
Using capitals in an attempt to sidestep the issue here is pretty transparent.


Sven:
The albanian govt has a credibility of 'zilch'. It has close ties to ex-KLA. And both of these 'authorities' have been so penetrated by the albanian mafia, that it is hard to see to where one ends & the other begins.

Oh, & here is a link (courtesy of 'bganon') to what del Ponte actually says in her book about the topic at hand - so people can judge for themselves rather than relying on your say so:

http://listserv.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0804&L=JUSTWATCH-L&T=0&O=D&P=179705


Alphonso:
In post #9, you refered to 'Princip, UK' as 'Alphonso'. With a typo, people do not usually get themselves confused with another. Perhaps is because you do not usually associate yourself with the name 'Alphonso'.

As for everything else you've raised, see above.


Will repeat this bit from previous post, as have not had any response to it thus far.

The pro K-albanian camp keeps bringing up reasons why the charges cannot be true. And the pro serb camp keeps knocking them down.

So let's approach the allegations from 'another direction'.

Is obvious that some type of surgery was performed in the 'yellow house'. For any reasonable person, this is a given. Is also obvious that attempts have been made to hide these activities.

Allegations of 'organ harvesting' & murder have been made, backed up by statements from both serbs & some albanians, together with other circumstantial evidence.

Tell me please, if not 'organ removal', then what surgeries were performed at the 'yellow house'?

And why were these surgeries 'covered up'?

Indeed, my name is not Alphonso, but that is of little importance; the name neither adds nor erases from the argument. As to your response, Peter:
Allegations do not make facts, neither do rumours. When there is evidence behind this book, it will be accepted. Such evidence should have been found, if the crime has occurred, by the nature of the crime and the institutional weakness of KLA.
Of course, Del Ponte says that there was evidence, but for some unknown reason, while she had the power to investigate, she does not! Why did she not ask to go around the area, take satellite pictures and whatever, to find those mass graves, while there were still fresh? Such technology exists. Why did she not mention of other Western govs. and the Albanian gov. being such a pawn would have no way of telling them no? Instead, she never mentions until it is too late. You bring arguments about the yellow house and what else would have been there, but I get the point of Del Ponte's book. The problem is that by her own behavior (ignoring them while she had power), by the reaction of independent players like ICTY, Swiss gov etc, and by the lack of evidence, her book loses a great deal of credibility.