"johny, what offer do the Albanians have apart from the Serbian one? Do you mean some fake, illegal, unresolved, puppet NATO entity? Otherwise there are no other offers on the table. You will not achieve independence and you are locked within your areas.
Give it time and you will realise that the Albanians are in isolation with little investment opportunity and nowhere to go. If you are happy with that, then fine. However, the Serbians are offering much more (for now), I can tell you that much but it matters little whether it is accepted or not. The end result will be the same.
(ZK UK, 21 April 2008 21:25)"
ZK Kostunica propaganda seems to be working. Either that or the Serbs simultaneously have convince themselves that we Albanians in Kosova/o are gonna starve if Belgrade is not in the picture.
Let me just go through a couple of points.
1) Serbian autonomy= No UN membership for us forever.
What we have now= No UN membership for now, 30-40 years who knows, maybe.
2) Serbian autonomy= Be part of IMF and World Bank or any other institutions with no veto holding powers if Serbia feels like it.
What we have now= Be part of IMF and World Bank or any other institutions with no veto holding powers whether Serbia agrees or not.
3) Serbian autonomy= Serbia borrows billions and have millions in Grants from the US and EU. We hope some drops may come to us, through Serbia from the EU and US.
What we have= We are directly linked with the EU and US. We borrow and get grants whether Serbia likes it or not.
4) Serbian autonomy= Serbian security forces (military and police in Kosova.
What we have now= NATO protection from Serbian security forces (military and police) in Kosova.
Serbian autonomy= Autonomous and dependent from Serbia which on its turn is dependent on EU US and Russia.
What we have now= Essentially autonomous and dependent directly on the US and EU with the need for Serbia as the middleman.
You see ZK, there are so much benefits to what we have now; the main one being Serbia is out of the picture. Second you cannot be isolated if you have access to 70% of the worlds economy. You cannot be isolated if you are under the protection of the world's strongest military alliance. You cannot be isolated if you are supported by the world's most developed, progressive and democratic countries. Slogans like fake, illegal, unresolved, puppet NATO entity only work for Serbs like yourselves who make themselves believe that Serbia and what it has to offer is a paradise for us Albanians, while the US and EU is the evil empire. They do not work for us.
johny, what offer do the Albanians have apart from the Serbian one? Do you mean some fake, illegal, unresolved, puppet NATO entity? Otherwise there are no other offers on the table. You will not achieve independence and you are locked within your areas.
Give it time and you will realise that the Albanians are in isolation with little investment opportunity and nowhere to go. If you are happy with that, then fine. However, the Serbians are offering much more (for now), I can tell you that much but it matters little whether it is accepted or not. The end result will be the same.
It seems to me that the EU are backpeddling fast- those that recognised an illegal state hoped to bully and push the rest of the world in following it and then present a 'fait accomplish'. They picked on a small demonised country but the Serbs have more integrity, pride and honour than all those little bullies put together. When the world starts to hear the truth instead of lies perhaps Clinton and Blair will be sent to the Hague to answer their crimes.
"The best offer Kosovo has and will ever get is more than autonomy and less than independence. That offer is on the table but if the tide turns at some point, it could easily be removed."
Your statement lacks a logical foundation. How can the Serbian autonomy offer be the best offer if what we have now is better than the Serbian offer. Even with 30 sth countries recognizing us we Albanians are happier than with the Serbian offer, so how can that be the best offer. In order for any Serbian offer to be the best offer, we Albanians should feel that the offer Serbia comes up with is better than what we have i the present. Well, in simple terms we certainly do not feel that way now. Serbia's offer on the other hand is the best offer for Serbia because the Serbs will take that offer anytime, and it is certainly much better for the Serbs than the reality on the ground today. I know you are able to make the distinction. So next time finish the sentence completely by saying the Serbian offer is the best one for the Serbs. We Albanians are able to decide what's best for us, contrary to the beliefs of some of the people from the Serbian camp here.
Mike Daytonization or anything to that effect might be a reality only if Belgrade recognizes independence. I say might because as more time passes the chances for that happening diminish.
Endrie, the fact is that Kurdistan, Palestine and RS are more deserving of independence than Kosovo, whether they have anything in common or not. Why do the Albanians deserve it? For ethnically cleansing 50% of the non-Albanian population? For burning many hundreds of churches? Or for the murder of Serbs and other non-Albanians? Or maybe just the well publicised criminal activity and drug links there?
When I say the world is on Serbia's side, I mean the 165 odd countries supporting us by not recognising Kosovo as opposed to the 35 that have.
I doubt very much this list is going to change significantly anytime soon. In fact, I'm wondering which one will be first to reverse recognition.
So much for the legitimacy of the US/€U/NATO land grab in southern Serbia, the only problem now is their people in Beograd and their desperate attempts to sign Serbia away to NATO before people have a chanse to have their say. The world and the law is on Serbia´s side but we can expect more dirty tricks from rthe falling empire ahead..
“Well ben (albanian), this is because those albans are not in albania, rather in Serbia, Macedonia and Montenegro! Your logic is beyond belief.”
If those Albanians were in Albania, they wouldn’t need any „functional division“. But if the Serbs in Kosova demand such divisions the same rights have those Albanians in Serbia, Macedonia and Montenegro. I would doubt that is will affect positively the relations between institutions over there that is why the Albanians never have demanded any “functional divisions” as the Serbs want. It seems that your logic is beyond belief.
To ZK UK:
“Ben, why are the Albanians so special? Why doesn't Palestine, Kurdistan, Srpska Republika, etc... deserve independence?”
Nobady said that the Albanians are special. But the Kosova issue has nothing in common with Palestine or Kurdistan. As for Republika Srpska, it was created artificially in order to end the war because it never existed before and never has been part of Serbia. What kind of independence are u talking for? Do not forget that in Kosova live ethnic Albanians and not Albanian people gathered from somewhere (as you claim).
“The best offer Kosovo has and will ever get is more than autonomy and less than independence.”
If the independence won’t be recognized by Serbia it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist! Sorry I forgot, Serbia is the pivot of the world. Probably we Albanians won’t be able to go to Tokio.
“Serbia knows the world and UN are on our side and this independence drive is lacking legitamacy so there will be no money until investors know what they are dealing with”
Nobady expected the independence to be recognized at once so we are patient. Russia and China doesn’t mean the world or you mean communist world including Cuba, Venezuela or Iran (against UN). Get it! These countries are not on UN or world side therefore UN or the World can not be on your side. The recognition is only a matter of time and nothing else. Anyway you have chosen your path and we have chosen ours.
Good Luck!
Mike, I don't think that Serbia will ever buy a Dayton type agreement for Kosovo. Not unless it is extended to all of the former YU - meaning borders are negotiated and based on ethnic divide.
Ben, why are the Albanians so special? Why doesn't Palestine, Kurdistan, Srpska Republika, etc... deserve independence?
The best offer Kosovo has and will ever get is more than autonomy and less than independence. That offer is on the table but if the tide turns at some point, it could easily be removed. Serbia knows the world and UN are on our side and this independence drive is lacking legitamacy so there will be no money until investors know what they are dealing with.
Two months after the IUDI and already mention of new talks? That says it all.
Why not same princips to teh Albanians in the Presevo valley? or Albaninas in Montenegro.
For the Albanians in Macedonia who are not 5% as Serbs in Kosova but 1/3 of the Macedonian population I guess confederation would be the most appropriate solution- allways following teh Serbian logic.
And of course after these conclusions Serbia has to recognize Kosova otherwise what's for to negotiate?
No matter how you slice it, np matter how long some choose to avoid it, and no matter how some even try to deny it, "compromise" will, at some point, become a reality. If this means both Belgrade and Pristina recognize where one side's soverengty extends and the other ends in Kosovo, I say it's time for the reality stick to hit heads on both sides. Looks like the Daytonization of Kosovo could very well be the inevitable outlook.
I do not care if you a Serb or Kosovar, this has to sound good both sides need to know that they have to border each other for many years to come. They have to negotiate and move forward.
I am not sure Kosovo will ever be part of Serbia this is a fact that both sides know, I think its time to find middle ground. So by dialog I think it’s the best way no pushing each other and acting immature.
So please do not start with Kosovo is Serbia, or Kosova is long gone wake up both and try to do what’s best for citizens not some old history book.
Mike, I don't think that Serbia will ever buy a Dayton type agreement for Kosovo. Not unless it is extended to all of the former YU - meaning borders are negotiated and based on ethnic divide.
Ben, why are the Albanians so special? Why doesn't Palestine, Kurdistan, Srpska Republika, etc... deserve independence?
The best offer Kosovo has and will ever get is more than autonomy and less than independence. That offer is on the table but if the tide turns at some point, it could easily be removed. Serbia knows the world and UN are on our side and this independence drive is lacking legitamacy so there will be no money until investors know what they are dealing with.
Two months after the IUDI and already mention of new talks? That says it all.
So much for the legitimacy of the US/€U/NATO land grab in southern Serbia, the only problem now is their people in Beograd and their desperate attempts to sign Serbia away to NATO before people have a chanse to have their say. The world and the law is on Serbia´s side but we can expect more dirty tricks from rthe falling empire ahead..
Endrie, the fact is that Kurdistan, Palestine and RS are more deserving of independence than Kosovo, whether they have anything in common or not. Why do the Albanians deserve it? For ethnically cleansing 50% of the non-Albanian population? For burning many hundreds of churches? Or for the murder of Serbs and other non-Albanians? Or maybe just the well publicised criminal activity and drug links there?
When I say the world is on Serbia's side, I mean the 165 odd countries supporting us by not recognising Kosovo as opposed to the 35 that have.
I doubt very much this list is going to change significantly anytime soon. In fact, I'm wondering which one will be first to reverse recognition.
It seems to me that the EU are backpeddling fast- those that recognised an illegal state hoped to bully and push the rest of the world in following it and then present a 'fait accomplish'. They picked on a small demonised country but the Serbs have more integrity, pride and honour than all those little bullies put together. When the world starts to hear the truth instead of lies perhaps Clinton and Blair will be sent to the Hague to answer their crimes.
Why not same princips to teh Albanians in the Presevo valley? or Albaninas in Montenegro.
For the Albanians in Macedonia who are not 5% as Serbs in Kosova but 1/3 of the Macedonian population I guess confederation would be the most appropriate solution- allways following teh Serbian logic.
And of course after these conclusions Serbia has to recognize Kosova otherwise what's for to negotiate?
johny, what offer do the Albanians have apart from the Serbian one? Do you mean some fake, illegal, unresolved, puppet NATO entity? Otherwise there are no other offers on the table. You will not achieve independence and you are locked within your areas.
Give it time and you will realise that the Albanians are in isolation with little investment opportunity and nowhere to go. If you are happy with that, then fine. However, the Serbians are offering much more (for now), I can tell you that much but it matters little whether it is accepted or not. The end result will be the same.
No matter how you slice it, np matter how long some choose to avoid it, and no matter how some even try to deny it, "compromise" will, at some point, become a reality. If this means both Belgrade and Pristina recognize where one side's soverengty extends and the other ends in Kosovo, I say it's time for the reality stick to hit heads on both sides. Looks like the Daytonization of Kosovo could very well be the inevitable outlook.
I do not care if you a Serb or Kosovar, this has to sound good both sides need to know that they have to border each other for many years to come. They have to negotiate and move forward.
I am not sure Kosovo will ever be part of Serbia this is a fact that both sides know, I think its time to find middle ground. So by dialog I think it’s the best way no pushing each other and acting immature.
So please do not start with Kosovo is Serbia, or Kosova is long gone wake up both and try to do what’s best for citizens not some old history book.
“Well ben (albanian), this is because those albans are not in albania, rather in Serbia, Macedonia and Montenegro! Your logic is beyond belief.”
If those Albanians were in Albania, they wouldn’t need any „functional division“. But if the Serbs in Kosova demand such divisions the same rights have those Albanians in Serbia, Macedonia and Montenegro. I would doubt that is will affect positively the relations between institutions over there that is why the Albanians never have demanded any “functional divisions” as the Serbs want. It seems that your logic is beyond belief.
To ZK UK:
“Ben, why are the Albanians so special? Why doesn't Palestine, Kurdistan, Srpska Republika, etc... deserve independence?”
Nobady said that the Albanians are special. But the Kosova issue has nothing in common with Palestine or Kurdistan. As for Republika Srpska, it was created artificially in order to end the war because it never existed before and never has been part of Serbia. What kind of independence are u talking for? Do not forget that in Kosova live ethnic Albanians and not Albanian people gathered from somewhere (as you claim).
“The best offer Kosovo has and will ever get is more than autonomy and less than independence.”
If the independence won’t be recognized by Serbia it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist! Sorry I forgot, Serbia is the pivot of the world. Probably we Albanians won’t be able to go to Tokio.
“Serbia knows the world and UN are on our side and this independence drive is lacking legitamacy so there will be no money until investors know what they are dealing with”
Nobady expected the independence to be recognized at once so we are patient. Russia and China doesn’t mean the world or you mean communist world including Cuba, Venezuela or Iran (against UN). Get it! These countries are not on UN or world side therefore UN or the World can not be on your side. The recognition is only a matter of time and nothing else. Anyway you have chosen your path and we have chosen ours.
Good Luck!
"The best offer Kosovo has and will ever get is more than autonomy and less than independence. That offer is on the table but if the tide turns at some point, it could easily be removed."
Your statement lacks a logical foundation. How can the Serbian autonomy offer be the best offer if what we have now is better than the Serbian offer. Even with 30 sth countries recognizing us we Albanians are happier than with the Serbian offer, so how can that be the best offer. In order for any Serbian offer to be the best offer, we Albanians should feel that the offer Serbia comes up with is better than what we have i the present. Well, in simple terms we certainly do not feel that way now. Serbia's offer on the other hand is the best offer for Serbia because the Serbs will take that offer anytime, and it is certainly much better for the Serbs than the reality on the ground today. I know you are able to make the distinction. So next time finish the sentence completely by saying the Serbian offer is the best one for the Serbs. We Albanians are able to decide what's best for us, contrary to the beliefs of some of the people from the Serbian camp here.
Mike Daytonization or anything to that effect might be a reality only if Belgrade recognizes independence. I say might because as more time passes the chances for that happening diminish.
"johny, what offer do the Albanians have apart from the Serbian one? Do you mean some fake, illegal, unresolved, puppet NATO entity? Otherwise there are no other offers on the table. You will not achieve independence and you are locked within your areas.
Give it time and you will realise that the Albanians are in isolation with little investment opportunity and nowhere to go. If you are happy with that, then fine. However, the Serbians are offering much more (for now), I can tell you that much but it matters little whether it is accepted or not. The end result will be the same.
(ZK UK, 21 April 2008 21:25)"
ZK Kostunica propaganda seems to be working. Either that or the Serbs simultaneously have convince themselves that we Albanians in Kosova/o are gonna starve if Belgrade is not in the picture.
Let me just go through a couple of points.
1) Serbian autonomy= No UN membership for us forever.
What we have now= No UN membership for now, 30-40 years who knows, maybe.
2) Serbian autonomy= Be part of IMF and World Bank or any other institutions with no veto holding powers if Serbia feels like it.
What we have now= Be part of IMF and World Bank or any other institutions with no veto holding powers whether Serbia agrees or not.
3) Serbian autonomy= Serbia borrows billions and have millions in Grants from the US and EU. We hope some drops may come to us, through Serbia from the EU and US.
What we have= We are directly linked with the EU and US. We borrow and get grants whether Serbia likes it or not.
4) Serbian autonomy= Serbian security forces (military and police in Kosova.
What we have now= NATO protection from Serbian security forces (military and police) in Kosova.
Serbian autonomy= Autonomous and dependent from Serbia which on its turn is dependent on EU US and Russia.
What we have now= Essentially autonomous and dependent directly on the US and EU with the need for Serbia as the middleman.
You see ZK, there are so much benefits to what we have now; the main one being Serbia is out of the picture. Second you cannot be isolated if you have access to 70% of the worlds economy. You cannot be isolated if you are under the protection of the world's strongest military alliance. You cannot be isolated if you are supported by the world's most developed, progressive and democratic countries. Slogans like fake, illegal, unresolved, puppet NATO entity only work for Serbs like yourselves who make themselves believe that Serbia and what it has to offer is a paradise for us Albanians, while the US and EU is the evil empire. They do not work for us.
Why not same princips to teh Albanians in the Presevo valley? or Albaninas in Montenegro.
For the Albanians in Macedonia who are not 5% as Serbs in Kosova but 1/3 of the Macedonian population I guess confederation would be the most appropriate solution- allways following teh Serbian logic.
And of course after these conclusions Serbia has to recognize Kosova otherwise what's for to negotiate?
I do not care if you a Serb or Kosovar, this has to sound good both sides need to know that they have to border each other for many years to come. They have to negotiate and move forward.
I am not sure Kosovo will ever be part of Serbia this is a fact that both sides know, I think its time to find middle ground. So by dialog I think it’s the best way no pushing each other and acting immature.
So please do not start with Kosovo is Serbia, or Kosova is long gone wake up both and try to do what’s best for citizens not some old history book.
“Well ben (albanian), this is because those albans are not in albania, rather in Serbia, Macedonia and Montenegro! Your logic is beyond belief.”
If those Albanians were in Albania, they wouldn’t need any „functional division“. But if the Serbs in Kosova demand such divisions the same rights have those Albanians in Serbia, Macedonia and Montenegro. I would doubt that is will affect positively the relations between institutions over there that is why the Albanians never have demanded any “functional divisions” as the Serbs want. It seems that your logic is beyond belief.
To ZK UK:
“Ben, why are the Albanians so special? Why doesn't Palestine, Kurdistan, Srpska Republika, etc... deserve independence?”
Nobady said that the Albanians are special. But the Kosova issue has nothing in common with Palestine or Kurdistan. As for Republika Srpska, it was created artificially in order to end the war because it never existed before and never has been part of Serbia. What kind of independence are u talking for? Do not forget that in Kosova live ethnic Albanians and not Albanian people gathered from somewhere (as you claim).
“The best offer Kosovo has and will ever get is more than autonomy and less than independence.”
If the independence won’t be recognized by Serbia it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist! Sorry I forgot, Serbia is the pivot of the world. Probably we Albanians won’t be able to go to Tokio.
“Serbia knows the world and UN are on our side and this independence drive is lacking legitamacy so there will be no money until investors know what they are dealing with”
Nobady expected the independence to be recognized at once so we are patient. Russia and China doesn’t mean the world or you mean communist world including Cuba, Venezuela or Iran (against UN). Get it! These countries are not on UN or world side therefore UN or the World can not be on your side. The recognition is only a matter of time and nothing else. Anyway you have chosen your path and we have chosen ours.
Good Luck!
"The best offer Kosovo has and will ever get is more than autonomy and less than independence. That offer is on the table but if the tide turns at some point, it could easily be removed."
Your statement lacks a logical foundation. How can the Serbian autonomy offer be the best offer if what we have now is better than the Serbian offer. Even with 30 sth countries recognizing us we Albanians are happier than with the Serbian offer, so how can that be the best offer. In order for any Serbian offer to be the best offer, we Albanians should feel that the offer Serbia comes up with is better than what we have i the present. Well, in simple terms we certainly do not feel that way now. Serbia's offer on the other hand is the best offer for Serbia because the Serbs will take that offer anytime, and it is certainly much better for the Serbs than the reality on the ground today. I know you are able to make the distinction. So next time finish the sentence completely by saying the Serbian offer is the best one for the Serbs. We Albanians are able to decide what's best for us, contrary to the beliefs of some of the people from the Serbian camp here.
Mike Daytonization or anything to that effect might be a reality only if Belgrade recognizes independence. I say might because as more time passes the chances for that happening diminish.
No matter how you slice it, np matter how long some choose to avoid it, and no matter how some even try to deny it, "compromise" will, at some point, become a reality. If this means both Belgrade and Pristina recognize where one side's soverengty extends and the other ends in Kosovo, I say it's time for the reality stick to hit heads on both sides. Looks like the Daytonization of Kosovo could very well be the inevitable outlook.
It seems to me that the EU are backpeddling fast- those that recognised an illegal state hoped to bully and push the rest of the world in following it and then present a 'fait accomplish'. They picked on a small demonised country but the Serbs have more integrity, pride and honour than all those little bullies put together. When the world starts to hear the truth instead of lies perhaps Clinton and Blair will be sent to the Hague to answer their crimes.
Mike, I don't think that Serbia will ever buy a Dayton type agreement for Kosovo. Not unless it is extended to all of the former YU - meaning borders are negotiated and based on ethnic divide.
Ben, why are the Albanians so special? Why doesn't Palestine, Kurdistan, Srpska Republika, etc... deserve independence?
The best offer Kosovo has and will ever get is more than autonomy and less than independence. That offer is on the table but if the tide turns at some point, it could easily be removed. Serbia knows the world and UN are on our side and this independence drive is lacking legitamacy so there will be no money until investors know what they are dealing with.
Two months after the IUDI and already mention of new talks? That says it all.
So much for the legitimacy of the US/€U/NATO land grab in southern Serbia, the only problem now is their people in Beograd and their desperate attempts to sign Serbia away to NATO before people have a chanse to have their say. The world and the law is on Serbia´s side but we can expect more dirty tricks from rthe falling empire ahead..
Endrie, the fact is that Kurdistan, Palestine and RS are more deserving of independence than Kosovo, whether they have anything in common or not. Why do the Albanians deserve it? For ethnically cleansing 50% of the non-Albanian population? For burning many hundreds of churches? Or for the murder of Serbs and other non-Albanians? Or maybe just the well publicised criminal activity and drug links there?
When I say the world is on Serbia's side, I mean the 165 odd countries supporting us by not recognising Kosovo as opposed to the 35 that have.
I doubt very much this list is going to change significantly anytime soon. In fact, I'm wondering which one will be first to reverse recognition.
johny, what offer do the Albanians have apart from the Serbian one? Do you mean some fake, illegal, unresolved, puppet NATO entity? Otherwise there are no other offers on the table. You will not achieve independence and you are locked within your areas.
Give it time and you will realise that the Albanians are in isolation with little investment opportunity and nowhere to go. If you are happy with that, then fine. However, the Serbians are offering much more (for now), I can tell you that much but it matters little whether it is accepted or not. The end result will be the same.
"johny, what offer do the Albanians have apart from the Serbian one? Do you mean some fake, illegal, unresolved, puppet NATO entity? Otherwise there are no other offers on the table. You will not achieve independence and you are locked within your areas.
Give it time and you will realise that the Albanians are in isolation with little investment opportunity and nowhere to go. If you are happy with that, then fine. However, the Serbians are offering much more (for now), I can tell you that much but it matters little whether it is accepted or not. The end result will be the same.
(ZK UK, 21 April 2008 21:25)"
ZK Kostunica propaganda seems to be working. Either that or the Serbs simultaneously have convince themselves that we Albanians in Kosova/o are gonna starve if Belgrade is not in the picture.
Let me just go through a couple of points.
1) Serbian autonomy= No UN membership for us forever.
What we have now= No UN membership for now, 30-40 years who knows, maybe.
2) Serbian autonomy= Be part of IMF and World Bank or any other institutions with no veto holding powers if Serbia feels like it.
What we have now= Be part of IMF and World Bank or any other institutions with no veto holding powers whether Serbia agrees or not.
3) Serbian autonomy= Serbia borrows billions and have millions in Grants from the US and EU. We hope some drops may come to us, through Serbia from the EU and US.
What we have= We are directly linked with the EU and US. We borrow and get grants whether Serbia likes it or not.
4) Serbian autonomy= Serbian security forces (military and police in Kosova.
What we have now= NATO protection from Serbian security forces (military and police) in Kosova.
Serbian autonomy= Autonomous and dependent from Serbia which on its turn is dependent on EU US and Russia.
What we have now= Essentially autonomous and dependent directly on the US and EU with the need for Serbia as the middleman.
You see ZK, there are so much benefits to what we have now; the main one being Serbia is out of the picture. Second you cannot be isolated if you have access to 70% of the worlds economy. You cannot be isolated if you are under the protection of the world's strongest military alliance. You cannot be isolated if you are supported by the world's most developed, progressive and democratic countries. Slogans like fake, illegal, unresolved, puppet NATO entity only work for Serbs like yourselves who make themselves believe that Serbia and what it has to offer is a paradise for us Albanians, while the US and EU is the evil empire. They do not work for us.
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