CoE debates Kosovo crisis

So there you have it, the status quo remains until the occupiers leave or they realise their plans are going nowhere.

Sooner or later the Albanians will wake up to the reality that their position has not really changed. Dreams about joining the EU and an economic boost are simply not going to happen and they are locked within their "independent Kosova".

On the other hand, it's very interesting to read all of the investment announcements coming into Serbia. It seems never ending.

Who are the international community? The US and a few loyal servants? The world is against Kosovo independence, plain and simple.

And as for the major economic powers supporting this illegal puppet entity, they are more interested in placing police and judges there than investing. What do Albanians offer that other Eastern Europeans do not? What investment prospects are there?

So predictor,

According to your evaluation, and Serbia is 'left behind' in the 90s, what is Albania's excuse for being well behind wore torn ''backward'' Serbia?

Was Albanian lack of development in all fields Serbia's fault as well?

I will have to refresh your mind that “status quo” has changed since February 17th, and our plans, in cooperation with the international community plans are going well. As the investment is concerned, I am really glad to hear that Serbia everyday receives announcements from the west, as I think, and I wish, that these investments will finally bring conscience to Serbian people and lead them in the future, as ’90ies have left them far behind the civilization (unfortunately Kosovars too as we were tied with Serbian politics). But, fortunately, Kosova is also in the international development agency’s agenda.

Jan Andersen and the rest of the albanians that post here need to do some study on basic diplomacy & history before voicing her uneducated remarks.
All you need to do is to open your eyes to the world around you to see that this is not about independence, democracy or stability.
This is just stupid rhetoric that you hear at a George bush speech, and is an insult to anyone’s intelligence.

Firstly, (legal issues aside) the new state of Kosovo is ruled by former terrorists and criminals. Not to mention a total lack of education. This point alone is enough to bring about some questions about its legitimacy.
Secondly, Dragoljub Mićunović brought up a very good point. That Serbs then have the right to self-determination not just in Kosovo, but in Bosnia too"
And what about Croatia? 200,000 Serbs were violently expelled by Croatian forces when they declared independence in Krajina? They were expelled with the blessing of the EU the UN & ofcourse the USA!

Apart from albanians, cant people see the utter hypocrisy and double standards that is going on here??

The article said:

"Aligrudić said that the unilateral declaration of independence set "a dangerous precedent" which threated the democratization process, as well as the region's security."

How? Someone please explain to me how an "unilateral declaration of independence" can threaten "democratization process"? If a large enough majority of some people in some corner of the world decides to declare themselves independent, how can that be against their democratic right to determine over their own lives?

And how can it threaten the security of that corner of the world? The only threat I can see, is if another non-democratic powers refuses to accept the other party's democratic right to independence and decides to start a war to "undo" the independence.

“If a large enough majority of some people in some corner of the world decides to declare themselves independent, how can that be against their democratic right to determine over their own lives?”

Why do not Serbs get this same right then Jan?

Its undemocratic in the global sense bypassing all the international institutions. Even the EU couldn’t come to an agreement among themselves on it. This is a case of the US and only part of the EU (EU is ONE country after all) attempting to decide the fate of the rest of the world. This is extremely undemocratic, the opinion of ALL countries should be taken into consideration.

It is also extremely undemocratic for the future of the EU itself. The Serbian vote in the EU (when/if they join) will be divided among a variety of countries, hence their voice in the EU will not be fully represented. We call that gerrymandering here in the US.

So there you have it, the status quo remains until the occupiers leave or they realise their plans are going nowhere.

Sooner or later the Albanians will wake up to the reality that their position has not really changed. Dreams about joining the EU and an economic boost are simply not going to happen and they are locked within their "independent Kosova".

On the other hand, it's very interesting to read all of the investment announcements coming into Serbia. It seems never ending.
(ZK UK, 17 April 2008 11:21)

This is not a status quo. Kosovo people are free and able to start making decision for themselves. Serbian army and police (although some of them are “hiding” all over Kosovo) are not in Kosovo anymore. More then 50,000 persecutors, judges, soldiers, army officer and police officers, Serbian and Yugoslav government officials, Serb teachers and school staff, all of them are gone for good and will not return because there is nothing in common between them and Kosovo except a higher paid “risky” job offered from government of Serbia to “run” Kosovo. Those days are gone for good and this is freedom. This is not a status quo.

Albanians always have been waked up that’s why they never lost hope for freedom. Albanians never have asked to Serbian “protection”, in contrary was Serbian Empire of 13th century that was never happy with displacing Dardanians until they included half of Greece on their empire.

Albanians never asked for any investment from Serbia.

Predrag,

I agree with you, what about Krajina dear Albanian friends??

Hundreds of thousands of people (including myself as a child) had to leave - and this was all OK, why? because "Croatias borders cannot be changed so if you don't like it (and the mad facist government of Croatia) - get out"... that is what we were told then.

Today, we hear a new story when it comes to Serbia's Albanian citizens...

I wonder what Albanian commentators think?

Do you back Krajina's right to leave Croatia? It was 90% Serbian...

If not, how can you object to one day Serbia having the right to an "operation storm" too?

I suggest learn from our (Krajina) experience, take the autonomy deal, it is for the best.

Serbs would be so surprised and grateful by this gesture, that it might even lead to a real peace and goodwill between our peoples.

On 17 April 2008, 16:12, Predrag wrote:

"Jan Andersen and the rest of the albanians (...)"

Minor correction: I am not, and have never been, neither Albanian, Kosovar, Serbian or any other thing. I am, as my signature tells you, born and raised in Denmark with a Danish linage that can be traced back to sometime in the 1600, at a place called Donslund Mølle.

Predrag wrote:

"Firstly, (legal issues aside) the new state of Kosovo is ruled by former terrorists and criminals. Not to mention a total lack of education. This point alone is enough to bring about some questions about its legitimacy."

I guess the same can be said about many places. Like Palestine, and in particular the Gaza strip where Hamas is currently calling the shots (literally).

Are you saying that the West bank and the Gaza strip governments are not legitimate?

Predrag wrote:

"Secondly, Dragoljub Mićunović brought up a very good point. That Serbs then have the right to self-determination not just in Kosovo, but in Bosnia too"

I totally agree. Arrange elections, see if there is a majority among the population in those areas that wants independence (or re-joining Serbia) and I will be here cheering on them.

Predrag wrote:

"And what about Croatia? 200,000 Serbs were violently expelled by Croatian forces when they declared independence in Krajina?"

If true, that is a sad story, and they (like the Palestinians) should be allowed to go back to wherever they expelled from.

Predrag wrote:

"Apart from albanians, cant people see the utter hypocrisy and double standards that is going on here??"

If you search for my comments here, I think you will quickly discover that I have been an avid supporter of independence to everyone from the very beginning.

"In Balkan history, the great powers have often redrawn frontiers, and there have always been injustices"
that's right,that was in London 1912 when they handed Kosova to you by force.
PS
you can have Krajina with all means,no Albanians posting here or living in Albania oppose such thing,about north Mitrovica..sorry can't have it,Serbian goverment never wanted that part,if they wanted north Mitrovica they should have been offering partition long time ago wich they never did.

The CoE stands for "Confabulators of Europia". This meaningless congress of blowhards deals in distortions of facts and the promulgation of fairytales.

FACT: The U.S. is providing great economic support to Kosovo. So far Bush has sent weapons, McDonalds hamburgers will be opening all over Thaciland and janitorial positions are now available at Camp Bondsteel.

FAIRYTALE: The world's greatest military powers, Denmark and Holland, currently in the forefront of fighting terrorists in Afghanistan will soon announce they will be sending wine, tulip bulbs and wooden shoes to Ramushia.

So there you have it, the status quo remains until the occupiers leave or they realise their plans are going nowhere.

Sooner or later the Albanians will wake up to the reality that their position has not really changed. Dreams about joining the EU and an economic boost are simply not going to happen and they are locked within their "independent Kosova".

On the other hand, it's very interesting to read all of the investment announcements coming into Serbia. It seems never ending.
(ZK UK, 17 April 2008 11:21)

This is not a status quo. Kosovo people are free and able to start making decision for themselves. Serbian army and police (although some of them are “hiding” all over Kosovo) are not in Kosovo anymore. More then 50,000 persecutors, judges, soldiers, army officer and police officers, Serbian and Yugoslav government officials, Serb teachers and school staff, all of them are gone for good and will not return because there is nothing in common between them and Kosovo except a higher paid “risky” job offered from government of Serbia to “run” Kosovo. Those days are gone for good and this is freedom. This is not a status quo.

Albanians always have been waked up that’s why they never lost hope for freedom. Albanians never have asked to Serbian “protection”, in contrary was Serbian Empire of 13th century that was never happy with displacing Dardanians until they included half of Greece on their empire.

Albanians never asked for any investment from Serbia.

I will have to refresh your mind that “status quo” has changed since February 17th, and our plans, in cooperation with the international community plans are going well. As the investment is concerned, I am really glad to hear that Serbia everyday receives announcements from the west, as I think, and I wish, that these investments will finally bring conscience to Serbian people and lead them in the future, as ’90ies have left them far behind the civilization (unfortunately Kosovars too as we were tied with Serbian politics). But, fortunately, Kosova is also in the international development agency’s agenda.

Jan Andersen and the rest of the albanians that post here need to do some study on basic diplomacy & history before voicing her uneducated remarks.
All you need to do is to open your eyes to the world around you to see that this is not about independence, democracy or stability.
This is just stupid rhetoric that you hear at a George bush speech, and is an insult to anyone’s intelligence.

Firstly, (legal issues aside) the new state of Kosovo is ruled by former terrorists and criminals. Not to mention a total lack of education. This point alone is enough to bring about some questions about its legitimacy.
Secondly, Dragoljub Mićunović brought up a very good point. That Serbs then have the right to self-determination not just in Kosovo, but in Bosnia too"
And what about Croatia? 200,000 Serbs were violently expelled by Croatian forces when they declared independence in Krajina? They were expelled with the blessing of the EU the UN & ofcourse the USA!

Apart from albanians, cant people see the utter hypocrisy and double standards that is going on here??

The article said:

"Aligrudić said that the unilateral declaration of independence set "a dangerous precedent" which threated the democratization process, as well as the region's security."

How? Someone please explain to me how an "unilateral declaration of independence" can threaten "democratization process"? If a large enough majority of some people in some corner of the world decides to declare themselves independent, how can that be against their democratic right to determine over their own lives?

And how can it threaten the security of that corner of the world? The only threat I can see, is if another non-democratic powers refuses to accept the other party's democratic right to independence and decides to start a war to "undo" the independence.

“If a large enough majority of some people in some corner of the world decides to declare themselves independent, how can that be against their democratic right to determine over their own lives?”

Why do not Serbs get this same right then Jan?

Its undemocratic in the global sense bypassing all the international institutions. Even the EU couldn’t come to an agreement among themselves on it. This is a case of the US and only part of the EU (EU is ONE country after all) attempting to decide the fate of the rest of the world. This is extremely undemocratic, the opinion of ALL countries should be taken into consideration.

It is also extremely undemocratic for the future of the EU itself. The Serbian vote in the EU (when/if they join) will be divided among a variety of countries, hence their voice in the EU will not be fully represented. We call that gerrymandering here in the US.

Who are the international community? The US and a few loyal servants? The world is against Kosovo independence, plain and simple.

And as for the major economic powers supporting this illegal puppet entity, they are more interested in placing police and judges there than investing. What do Albanians offer that other Eastern Europeans do not? What investment prospects are there?

So predictor,

According to your evaluation, and Serbia is 'left behind' in the 90s, what is Albania's excuse for being well behind wore torn ''backward'' Serbia?

Was Albanian lack of development in all fields Serbia's fault as well?

"In Balkan history, the great powers have often redrawn frontiers, and there have always been injustices"
that's right,that was in London 1912 when they handed Kosova to you by force.
PS
you can have Krajina with all means,no Albanians posting here or living in Albania oppose such thing,about north Mitrovica..sorry can't have it,Serbian goverment never wanted that part,if they wanted north Mitrovica they should have been offering partition long time ago wich they never did.

So there you have it, the status quo remains until the occupiers leave or they realise their plans are going nowhere.

Sooner or later the Albanians will wake up to the reality that their position has not really changed. Dreams about joining the EU and an economic boost are simply not going to happen and they are locked within their "independent Kosova".

On the other hand, it's very interesting to read all of the investment announcements coming into Serbia. It seems never ending.

Predrag,

I agree with you, what about Krajina dear Albanian friends??

Hundreds of thousands of people (including myself as a child) had to leave - and this was all OK, why? because "Croatias borders cannot be changed so if you don't like it (and the mad facist government of Croatia) - get out"... that is what we were told then.

Today, we hear a new story when it comes to Serbia's Albanian citizens...

I wonder what Albanian commentators think?

Do you back Krajina's right to leave Croatia? It was 90% Serbian...

If not, how can you object to one day Serbia having the right to an "operation storm" too?

I suggest learn from our (Krajina) experience, take the autonomy deal, it is for the best.

Serbs would be so surprised and grateful by this gesture, that it might even lead to a real peace and goodwill between our peoples.

On 17 April 2008, 16:12, Predrag wrote:

"Jan Andersen and the rest of the albanians (...)"

Minor correction: I am not, and have never been, neither Albanian, Kosovar, Serbian or any other thing. I am, as my signature tells you, born and raised in Denmark with a Danish linage that can be traced back to sometime in the 1600, at a place called Donslund Mølle.

Predrag wrote:

"Firstly, (legal issues aside) the new state of Kosovo is ruled by former terrorists and criminals. Not to mention a total lack of education. This point alone is enough to bring about some questions about its legitimacy."

I guess the same can be said about many places. Like Palestine, and in particular the Gaza strip where Hamas is currently calling the shots (literally).

Are you saying that the West bank and the Gaza strip governments are not legitimate?

Predrag wrote:

"Secondly, Dragoljub Mićunović brought up a very good point. That Serbs then have the right to self-determination not just in Kosovo, but in Bosnia too"

I totally agree. Arrange elections, see if there is a majority among the population in those areas that wants independence (or re-joining Serbia) and I will be here cheering on them.

Predrag wrote:

"And what about Croatia? 200,000 Serbs were violently expelled by Croatian forces when they declared independence in Krajina?"

If true, that is a sad story, and they (like the Palestinians) should be allowed to go back to wherever they expelled from.

Predrag wrote:

"Apart from albanians, cant people see the utter hypocrisy and double standards that is going on here??"

If you search for my comments here, I think you will quickly discover that I have been an avid supporter of independence to everyone from the very beginning.

The CoE stands for "Confabulators of Europia". This meaningless congress of blowhards deals in distortions of facts and the promulgation of fairytales.

FACT: The U.S. is providing great economic support to Kosovo. So far Bush has sent weapons, McDonalds hamburgers will be opening all over Thaciland and janitorial positions are now available at Camp Bondsteel.

FAIRYTALE: The world's greatest military powers, Denmark and Holland, currently in the forefront of fighting terrorists in Afghanistan will soon announce they will be sending wine, tulip bulbs and wooden shoes to Ramushia.