PM Vojislav Koštunica says Serbia will not just let the issue of the <a href="http://www.b92.net/eng/news/crimes-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=04&dd=03&nav_id=49050" class="text-link" target= "_blank">Hague acquittal</a> of Ramush Haradinaj go away.
Better for Dutch newspapers and Dutch people in general if they think twice before speaking against Kosovars. Netherlands should always bear in mind the Srebrenica's shame.
You said "It was clearly NOT ordered by Belgrade,..."
To say that Serbia did not intentionally participate in killing of 8000 Muslim men and young boys is similar to saying Hitler did not order Auschwitz, but solders on the ground did it....
Please watch Srebrenica 2 from You Tube and it will definately change your thoughts...
I have nothing against Serbs BUT history should be fair and clear NOT manipulated...
To add to what Marco says, unlike Serbian defendants, the Tribunal never indicted Haradinaj for command responsibiliy so the acts of his subordinates were never an issue during the trial.
According to KS (#30), the acquittal of Haradinaj "is based on the fact that the accusations were based on lies."
All the major newspapers in the Netherlands (Volkskrant, NRC, Trouw) are saying that Haradinaj could not be convicted because there was not enough evidence against him. These newspapers are all arguing that some key witnesses did not want to testify against Haradinaj because they feared for their lives, and that other witnesses already had been killed before they could give evidence. Apparently, Haradinaj does have blood on his hands...
Many of us disagreed strongly with the ICJ decision to proclaim Srebenica a genocide bypassing the "intent" requirement. You act like it was some kind of victory for Serbs, it clearly was not.
Now, you seem to be upset that the ICJ did not find that Belgrade had responsility in that case. However, if you were familiar with the events at that time you would know that relations between Belgrade and Pale had in fact broken down by that time. It was clearly NOT ordered by Belgrade, but merely a reaction of the soldiers on the ground who had suffered under Oric for years before the event. Read the ICTY's judgment of Oric and you'll see that the population of Srebenica was out of control and committed great acts of violence against the Serbian population. I strongly condemn what happened in Srebenica, but to call it genocide and claim Belgrade intended to committ genocide there and had complete control over the situation is most likely going too far.
Simply the fact that so many witnesses against Haradinaj met an untimely death says to me that he was most likely guilty of something.
Of course Serbs are upset. Just look at the populations of all these regions. Only those areas under Serbian control remained multi-ethnic. Everyone else cleansed their areas of control, yet for some reason everyone blames Serbia for committing acts of ethnic cleansing.
I think you will find that the Srebrenica case went through the ICJ, not the ICTY.
(strav, 7 April 2008 12:39)
Dear Strav,
May I remind you that they are both UN courts.
However, maybe you are implying that when one UN court rules against Serbia that is not valid but when another UN court rules in favour of Serbia then, that is the fair one...
Please learn that objectivity is subject to interpretations...
" …. stop, insulting ICTY. When Serbia was "cleared" from Bosnia genocide, no Serb official said that ICTY should be closed, but everyone welcomed the news.
There is no hypocrisy. Court which cleared Serbia of accusations for genocide was not ICTY but ICJ (International Court of Justice), completely different Court, where West and US have less control. ICTY is ad-hoc tribunal organized, financed and controlled by the West with a specific purpose to promote their agenda in the Balkans.
ICY is permanent, principal juridical organ of the United Nations. It is pity that they didn't investigate Srebrenica case but took ICTY official conclusions as a proven fact, although conclusions are not supported by the evidence, and even contradict the conclusion on many points.
ICJ is impartial enough to worry Americans. Remember US insistence on the contracts with individual countries giving guaranties that they will not hand over Americans accused of war crimes to international justice? It is precisely to prevent ICJ doing its work.
Please stop, insulting ICTY. When Serbia was "cleared" from Bosnia genocide, no Serb official said that ICTY should be closed, but everyone welcomed the news.
So now no hypocracy please.
(PRN, 7 April 2008 08:28)
I think you will find that the Srebrenica case went through the ICJ, not the ICTY.
johny: "Also can those Serbs who claim Kosovar Albanians left Kosova because of NATO bombings, explain why Kosova Serbs did not leave Kosova because of the NATO bombings?
Are the Kosova Serbs somehow immune to bombs?"
More Kosovo Serbs civilians left Kosovo during the 78 days of NATO bombardment as a proportion of their population compared to Kosovo Albanians did. To say no Serbs left Kosovo during the bombardment is making a very wrong assumption.
Please stop, insulting ICTY. When Serbia was "cleared" from Bosnia genocide, no Serb official said that ICTY should be closed, but everyone welcomed the news.
Ramush Haradinaj acquital can be based on 2 things:
1. Charities sponsored very intelligently which poured money in and out into his case for the best defense
2. His innocence was proved so well that the defense did not even give a last position
Now some claim that America had a hand in this, that is simply not true. His liberty is based on the fact that the accusations were based on lies.
Some here are trying to draw parallels between Haradinaj and Bosnian/Serbian.
Some are also taking journals and diaries as ultimate proof. I am thinking of starting a blog so that my words may be used as proof in the Hague or the Belgrade courts.
the civilized world is still awaiting the capture and trial of the remaining war criminals (of ALL ethnicities) and i don't wanna hear any more phony-baloney excuses. just capture, arrest, trial. period.
Tesla, even through max. distort, everyone knows who was the victim and who was the other side.
I made that discount on percentage just to tell how big was the number of killed ppl.. even if we split the number in two parts..
I know for sure, my grandfather was killed in his home just because he refused to leave home as we did, and if we had decided to stay too, today I wouldn't be able to write in here, cause probably I would get killed that time..
Nicolas Klinsman, what you think you know and what the Serbs want is in conflict with reality.If anyone has an issue, then let's take it to court and respect the outcome. The innocent verdict is justice being served unlike all the Serb criminals who have yet to face justice.You would be singing a different tune if it was the other way around.Wouldn't you?
Festim, its funny that your count of victims dropped 50% with only a little persuasion. The fact is most albanians here distort much of actual history which falls apart with only a little cross examination.
Some of these anti-Serb posters here should get a grip. There are many countries in the world who will not extradite their own nationals under any circumstances. Here in Ireland, during the troubles in the North, the British were forever trying to get the Irish government to extradite people from the South. It caused a lot of political turmoil and was eventually stopped.
Anyway, who'd extradite someone to a kangaroo court.
"italy"; you claim American Administration somehow freed the former PM of demoncratic Kosova after he proved him self by voluntarly going to the Hague to face Serb inspired allegations. The court rules that he is innocent.What part does anyone not understand.America has nothing to do with the Hague court verdict.Your "facts" don't make sense to any reasonable thinking individual.And please use your own name cause you sure as hell don't repesent "italy".By the way Italy also recognized Kosova's independence.
Before comment, I have to stress that the outpouring of putrid nationalism on this site is distasteful!
There is, of course, devil in the detail. The Hague court has now lost all credibility and why should Serbs have anything to do with such a legal stitch - up. I am honestly apalled at the judicial outcome and no wonder the Serbian people are turning toward nationalism. this verdict is an international disgrace. This is no anti - Albanian rant as i spend much time in the Balkans and have huge respect for Albanian people. The Intertnational criminal trial in the Hague for the former Yugolavia is totally discredited and should cease to exist. It is another example of Western influence, destabilising this area of South - Western Europe. A shameful day for europe!
kostunica must be more explicit with this. it isnt just what the eu does or doesnt do, what they say. its about what will we do. he talks about state building and responsible policy after the elections and i certainly hope he means it. serbia right now is not a real state, it leaves its citizens at the mercy of others and doesn't prosecute criminals properly. israel on the other hand is a real state. they go after the killers of their people from gaza to argentina and back.
Ratko Uk, You must know very well that after the Milosevic led Greater Serbia campaign of aggression in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosova, all of the civilians victims attacked and murdered by the Serbs weren't simply dead because of "war". And NATO assisstance was appreciated.The arms embargo on the victims didn't help.
Firtst of all Mr. Kostunica, it is not the so called Kosovo liberation army, but it was called exactly that, The Kosova Liberation Army.
This is where the Serbian stereotype comes. Mr. Kostunica thinks he is smarter than all of the leaders of the EU, starting from Merkel, Sarkozy, Dalema or Prodi etc. etc. He somehow thinks that by discrediting the Hague court, Serbia will not have to turn its own world criminals to the Hague as a condition for joining the EU. How wrong you are Mr. Vojo. You are not dealing with dilettante politicians like yourself in the EU. Also since your real profession is in the field of justice you might also know that the justice system is not perfect. That in some cases does not work as it should. (Even though personally I think it worked just fine). However as a professional in the justice system Mr. Kostunica you should know that you never break the system because of a few cases. Any system can never be 100% efficient. What you are asking Mr. Kostunica is that the EU declare this system to be broken, because you want to be let of the hook. That is poor thinking as a politician and as a justice professional.
Also can those Serbs who claim Kosovar Albanians left Kosova because of NATO bombings, explain why Kosova Serbs did not leave Kosova because of the NATO bombings?
Are the Kosova Serbs somehow immune to bombs?
Benny the Albanians were not Catholics hence the double headed eagle of Byzantium on their flag, they were Orthodox until most took up arms for the Turks and the Orthodox church of Albania still exists.
Also Benny of little knowledge, it is well documented that even though the Serbs were living in that area prior to the 7th Century AD, for many years Kosovo and Wetern Macedonia was known as Stara Serbia, Old Serbia, it was in the 7th Century that the Emporer Heraclius invited the Serbs to move on mass to these lands whcih were left vacant by the Lombards, by this time the Albanians had taken to the mountains where they'd been since they were devastated by the Romans when they were known as Illyrians and Epirots, indeed it is from these 2 'seperate' races that Albanians derive.
Also benny of little knowledge, you seem to need informing, Kosovo and Metohije was until the Balkan war of 1912 still under Ottoman Occupation, which was why it was 'reunified' with the Serbian people in 1914.
The Hague war crimes tribunal is not and never has been neutral, hence the absence of the likes of Sharon or Suharto whom both have more blood on their hands than Milosovic ever had.
The NATO bombing of Serbia was not a legal action, this is a fact, and the criminal cases brought before the Hague, in my opinion, were merely to put a seal of justification on an illegal act.
As for Mladic and Karadzic, Serbia could not bring them in if they wanted to or tried, they are Bosnian Serbs and within Bosnia they will be protected by their own.
No attempts at distorting history will alter the fact that Kosovo and Metohije is and always has been and always will be the spiritual heartland of the Serbs.
It's also no secret that the KLA and the US have had a friendship going for some time.
They were probably the best market for body organs
amongst other things.
We all know Haradinaj is guilty of many crimes as well as other Albanians also such as Ceku and Thaci.
The fact is the Hague for political reasons is only focused on alleged Serbian crimes and not Serbian victims. Although this hypocracy doesn't excuse any Serbian crimes, this double standard is infuriating to Serbians and damages any possible reconciliation between Albanians and Serbs.
You Albanians may think you've gotten away with your crimes, but in this world or the next justice will be served.
Well....no surprise there....the Serbs should have nothing to do with the war tribunal and do everything possible to bring back all the accused! As for everybody else saying Serbs killed xxx thousand here and xxx thousand there...it was a war! People do get killed unfortunately! And why all the pressure on the Serbs for crimes allegedly committed 15 years ago?
The US killed millions with the nuclear bomb in Hiroshima....but has that been forgotten about because it happened so long ago? One rule for the US and the EU and another for the Serbs!
"1. Know Haradinaj is guilty and belongs in prison and;
2. Know Serbia is the historical, moral and legal owner of Kosovo and Metohija."
I don't know about 1 but number two I can tell you that Kosova is owned by its people that are mostly Albanians.
Historical owner at some point. The problem is time never stopped for anyone. Not even Serbs.
Moral owner? The Serbs didn't treat the land nor the people with any morality.
Well legally a state can't own peoples property and since the people generate wealth out of hard work and goods to represent it then it belongs to the people.
I were Kosovo's Albanian, I would not be happy to have this individual back on Kosovo. But, according to the comments here, it seems that Mr Haradinaj is welcome back and that the situation of similars is fantastic. The fact that American Administration freed him to make Serbia angry, think twice while being jubilant if you are going to vote him as your Prime Minister tomorrow. But he will want to occupy that seat, even with blood.
Kostunica tries to excuse the fact that Mladic is not in the Hague, although he was in Serbia for most of the years Kostunica was in charge of the army as president, or later as prime minister. Demonising one Kosovar thug isn't going to change that, especially when that thug actually went to the Hague, something Serbian "heroes" Mladic and Karadzic have never done. Say goodbye to the premiership, Vojo.
All these statements (from politicians and readers of b92 supporting Serb view) reflect nothing new and are a prime example of a way of thinking and ideology that brought Serbia where it is today. All they do is lay blame on someone else never to look over own actions (typical claims of various Serb party leaders like Kostunica, Nikolic and others).
If you all want excuse for not delivering Karadzic or Maldic so be it (it will be another plus for Serbia among many others), but never forget that the same choices and decisions these two war crime fugitives faced and chose, Haradinaj had available but he chose something totally different from them. Haradinaj handed himself to Hauge!
Now, you all can say that the court was biased and what not, but what you need to do is to look at the case and scope of it and how prosecution presented this case and then (put emotions aside) decide whether the verdict was biased or not (at the end of the day when not guilty verdicts were handed to Serbs we did not hear anyone from Serb politician complain about the validity if the Hauge).
Kostunica, claims are nothing but a bunch of propaganda aimed at fooling its own people. This court is UN based court and it upholds those very international laws that Kostunica and may of you here hold so dear to you heart. Reading these comments, one cannot but wonder where is the end of this hypocrisy in Serbia.
1.Kosova has never been a part of Serbia till after wwI.The tale that albanians did many children etc;is believed from nobody. Albanians were 100% of the population in Kosova and were catholics before you came to Balkan (See Othoman registrations in 14-15th century)
2. In former Yougoslavia albanians were the only people that had nothing to do with your culture, religion etc.
3.It seems here that all crimes during the 90's in Balkan are done only by Milloshevic and nobody else??
4. As for comparing Mladic and co. with Haradinaj I only can say: I feel sorry for you
Festim, please stop lying with the 10,000 dead Albanian figure. It's less than half, including both sides, according to the UN. And maybe 1 million Albanians did run when NATO bombs started falling, but they all came back. How many Serbs came back to Kosovo after the Albanians drove them out under the eyes of NATO and UNMIK? The problem with Haradinaj, is that if the Hague was allowed to convict him, it would have shown that the UN/NATO backed a murderer. Which they did, but they could not allow that to happen to the eyes of the world.
In this case its so seen how serious serbian politicans are.. How dare they can say such a things, knowing that their country 10 years ago killed more than 10000, rapped more than 20000, burned more than 100000 houses, and deported a 1000000 from their houses in Kosova, and noone of serbs has been punished till now for these crimes!! Take a look in history before you talk about this things Serbia!
"Why should Serbia now bring in Mladic & Karadzic if Haradinaj has been acquited?"
If Serbia wants to embrace its warcriminals, she is free to do so. The rest of the Europe does not understand why Serbia takes a stand for people that are connected to the horrible deeds from Sarajevo siege and Srebrenica massacre.
Anyway, they should have been brought to justice years ago, it is too late now.
Demi, I'm not a psycholgist but I don't need to be one to tell that you actually;
1. Know Haradinaj is guilty and belongs in prison and;
2. Know Serbia is the historical, moral and legal owner of Kosovo and Metohija.
The criminal led, breakaway Serbian Albanian political leadership will never get Serbia to agree to their theft and they will one day be brought to heel. Must be frustrating...As the Serb saying goes; "Oteto, prokleto". Would you like a translation, or do you also know that?
Why should Serbia now bring in Mladic & Karadzic if Haradinaj has been acquited?
This is a ridiculous result and the Serbian poeple should feel very angry about this.
Festim, please stop lying with the 10,000 dead Albanian figure. It's less than half, including both sides, according to the UN. And maybe 1 million Albanians did run when NATO bombs started falling, but they all came back. How many Serbs came back to Kosovo after the Albanians drove them out under the eyes of NATO and UNMIK? The problem with Haradinaj, is that if the Hague was allowed to convict him, it would have shown that the UN/NATO backed a murderer. Which they did, but they could not allow that to happen to the eyes of the world.
Demi, I'm not a psycholgist but I don't need to be one to tell that you actually;
1. Know Haradinaj is guilty and belongs in prison and;
2. Know Serbia is the historical, moral and legal owner of Kosovo and Metohija.
The criminal led, breakaway Serbian Albanian political leadership will never get Serbia to agree to their theft and they will one day be brought to heel. Must be frustrating...As the Serb saying goes; "Oteto, prokleto". Would you like a translation, or do you also know that?
Why should Serbia now bring in Mladic & Karadzic if Haradinaj has been acquited?
This is a ridiculous result and the Serbian poeple should feel very angry about this.
Benny the Albanians were not Catholics hence the double headed eagle of Byzantium on their flag, they were Orthodox until most took up arms for the Turks and the Orthodox church of Albania still exists.
Also Benny of little knowledge, it is well documented that even though the Serbs were living in that area prior to the 7th Century AD, for many years Kosovo and Wetern Macedonia was known as Stara Serbia, Old Serbia, it was in the 7th Century that the Emporer Heraclius invited the Serbs to move on mass to these lands whcih were left vacant by the Lombards, by this time the Albanians had taken to the mountains where they'd been since they were devastated by the Romans when they were known as Illyrians and Epirots, indeed it is from these 2 'seperate' races that Albanians derive.
Also benny of little knowledge, you seem to need informing, Kosovo and Metohije was until the Balkan war of 1912 still under Ottoman Occupation, which was why it was 'reunified' with the Serbian people in 1914.
The Hague war crimes tribunal is not and never has been neutral, hence the absence of the likes of Sharon or Suharto whom both have more blood on their hands than Milosovic ever had.
The NATO bombing of Serbia was not a legal action, this is a fact, and the criminal cases brought before the Hague, in my opinion, were merely to put a seal of justification on an illegal act.
As for Mladic and Karadzic, Serbia could not bring them in if they wanted to or tried, they are Bosnian Serbs and within Bosnia they will be protected by their own.
No attempts at distorting history will alter the fact that Kosovo and Metohije is and always has been and always will be the spiritual heartland of the Serbs.
It's also no secret that the KLA and the US have had a friendship going for some time.
They were probably the best market for body organs
amongst other things.
In this case its so seen how serious serbian politicans are.. How dare they can say such a things, knowing that their country 10 years ago killed more than 10000, rapped more than 20000, burned more than 100000 houses, and deported a 1000000 from their houses in Kosova, and noone of serbs has been punished till now for these crimes!! Take a look in history before you talk about this things Serbia!
Some of these anti-Serb posters here should get a grip. There are many countries in the world who will not extradite their own nationals under any circumstances. Here in Ireland, during the troubles in the North, the British were forever trying to get the Irish government to extradite people from the South. It caused a lot of political turmoil and was eventually stopped.
Anyway, who'd extradite someone to a kangaroo court.
Festim, its funny that your count of victims dropped 50% with only a little persuasion. The fact is most albanians here distort much of actual history which falls apart with only a little cross examination.
We all know Haradinaj is guilty of many crimes as well as other Albanians also such as Ceku and Thaci.
The fact is the Hague for political reasons is only focused on alleged Serbian crimes and not Serbian victims. Although this hypocracy doesn't excuse any Serbian crimes, this double standard is infuriating to Serbians and damages any possible reconciliation between Albanians and Serbs.
You Albanians may think you've gotten away with your crimes, but in this world or the next justice will be served.
Well....no surprise there....the Serbs should have nothing to do with the war tribunal and do everything possible to bring back all the accused! As for everybody else saying Serbs killed xxx thousand here and xxx thousand there...it was a war! People do get killed unfortunately! And why all the pressure on the Serbs for crimes allegedly committed 15 years ago?
The US killed millions with the nuclear bomb in Hiroshima....but has that been forgotten about because it happened so long ago? One rule for the US and the EU and another for the Serbs!
Before comment, I have to stress that the outpouring of putrid nationalism on this site is distasteful!
There is, of course, devil in the detail. The Hague court has now lost all credibility and why should Serbs have anything to do with such a legal stitch - up. I am honestly apalled at the judicial outcome and no wonder the Serbian people are turning toward nationalism. this verdict is an international disgrace. This is no anti - Albanian rant as i spend much time in the Balkans and have huge respect for Albanian people. The Intertnational criminal trial in the Hague for the former Yugolavia is totally discredited and should cease to exist. It is another example of Western influence, destabilising this area of South - Western Europe. A shameful day for europe!
I were Kosovo's Albanian, I would not be happy to have this individual back on Kosovo. But, according to the comments here, it seems that Mr Haradinaj is welcome back and that the situation of similars is fantastic. The fact that American Administration freed him to make Serbia angry, think twice while being jubilant if you are going to vote him as your Prime Minister tomorrow. But he will want to occupy that seat, even with blood.
All these statements (from politicians and readers of b92 supporting Serb view) reflect nothing new and are a prime example of a way of thinking and ideology that brought Serbia where it is today. All they do is lay blame on someone else never to look over own actions (typical claims of various Serb party leaders like Kostunica, Nikolic and others).
If you all want excuse for not delivering Karadzic or Maldic so be it (it will be another plus for Serbia among many others), but never forget that the same choices and decisions these two war crime fugitives faced and chose, Haradinaj had available but he chose something totally different from them. Haradinaj handed himself to Hauge!
Now, you all can say that the court was biased and what not, but what you need to do is to look at the case and scope of it and how prosecution presented this case and then (put emotions aside) decide whether the verdict was biased or not (at the end of the day when not guilty verdicts were handed to Serbs we did not hear anyone from Serb politician complain about the validity if the Hauge).
Kostunica, claims are nothing but a bunch of propaganda aimed at fooling its own people. This court is UN based court and it upholds those very international laws that Kostunica and may of you here hold so dear to you heart. Reading these comments, one cannot but wonder where is the end of this hypocrisy in Serbia.
"Why should Serbia now bring in Mladic & Karadzic if Haradinaj has been acquited?"
If Serbia wants to embrace its warcriminals, she is free to do so. The rest of the Europe does not understand why Serbia takes a stand for people that are connected to the horrible deeds from Sarajevo siege and Srebrenica massacre.
Anyway, they should have been brought to justice years ago, it is too late now.
Kostunica tries to excuse the fact that Mladic is not in the Hague, although he was in Serbia for most of the years Kostunica was in charge of the army as president, or later as prime minister. Demonising one Kosovar thug isn't going to change that, especially when that thug actually went to the Hague, something Serbian "heroes" Mladic and Karadzic have never done. Say goodbye to the premiership, Vojo.
1.Kosova has never been a part of Serbia till after wwI.The tale that albanians did many children etc;is believed from nobody. Albanians were 100% of the population in Kosova and were catholics before you came to Balkan (See Othoman registrations in 14-15th century)
2. In former Yougoslavia albanians were the only people that had nothing to do with your culture, religion etc.
3.It seems here that all crimes during the 90's in Balkan are done only by Milloshevic and nobody else??
4. As for comparing Mladic and co. with Haradinaj I only can say: I feel sorry for you
Many of us disagreed strongly with the ICJ decision to proclaim Srebenica a genocide bypassing the "intent" requirement. You act like it was some kind of victory for Serbs, it clearly was not.
Now, you seem to be upset that the ICJ did not find that Belgrade had responsility in that case. However, if you were familiar with the events at that time you would know that relations between Belgrade and Pale had in fact broken down by that time. It was clearly NOT ordered by Belgrade, but merely a reaction of the soldiers on the ground who had suffered under Oric for years before the event. Read the ICTY's judgment of Oric and you'll see that the population of Srebenica was out of control and committed great acts of violence against the Serbian population. I strongly condemn what happened in Srebenica, but to call it genocide and claim Belgrade intended to committ genocide there and had complete control over the situation is most likely going too far.
Simply the fact that so many witnesses against Haradinaj met an untimely death says to me that he was most likely guilty of something.
Of course Serbs are upset. Just look at the populations of all these regions. Only those areas under Serbian control remained multi-ethnic. Everyone else cleansed their areas of control, yet for some reason everyone blames Serbia for committing acts of ethnic cleansing.
According to KS (#30), the acquittal of Haradinaj "is based on the fact that the accusations were based on lies."
All the major newspapers in the Netherlands (Volkskrant, NRC, Trouw) are saying that Haradinaj could not be convicted because there was not enough evidence against him. These newspapers are all arguing that some key witnesses did not want to testify against Haradinaj because they feared for their lives, and that other witnesses already had been killed before they could give evidence. Apparently, Haradinaj does have blood on his hands...
Firtst of all Mr. Kostunica, it is not the so called Kosovo liberation army, but it was called exactly that, The Kosova Liberation Army.
This is where the Serbian stereotype comes. Mr. Kostunica thinks he is smarter than all of the leaders of the EU, starting from Merkel, Sarkozy, Dalema or Prodi etc. etc. He somehow thinks that by discrediting the Hague court, Serbia will not have to turn its own world criminals to the Hague as a condition for joining the EU. How wrong you are Mr. Vojo. You are not dealing with dilettante politicians like yourself in the EU. Also since your real profession is in the field of justice you might also know that the justice system is not perfect. That in some cases does not work as it should. (Even though personally I think it worked just fine). However as a professional in the justice system Mr. Kostunica you should know that you never break the system because of a few cases. Any system can never be 100% efficient. What you are asking Mr. Kostunica is that the EU declare this system to be broken, because you want to be let of the hook. That is poor thinking as a politician and as a justice professional.
Also can those Serbs who claim Kosovar Albanians left Kosova because of NATO bombings, explain why Kosova Serbs did not leave Kosova because of the NATO bombings?
Are the Kosova Serbs somehow immune to bombs?
Tesla, even through max. distort, everyone knows who was the victim and who was the other side.
I made that discount on percentage just to tell how big was the number of killed ppl.. even if we split the number in two parts..
I know for sure, my grandfather was killed in his home just because he refused to leave home as we did, and if we had decided to stay too, today I wouldn't be able to write in here, cause probably I would get killed that time..
kostunica must be more explicit with this. it isnt just what the eu does or doesnt do, what they say. its about what will we do. he talks about state building and responsible policy after the elections and i certainly hope he means it. serbia right now is not a real state, it leaves its citizens at the mercy of others and doesn't prosecute criminals properly. israel on the other hand is a real state. they go after the killers of their people from gaza to argentina and back.
Ramush Haradinaj acquital can be based on 2 things:
1. Charities sponsored very intelligently which poured money in and out into his case for the best defense
2. His innocence was proved so well that the defense did not even give a last position
Now some claim that America had a hand in this, that is simply not true. His liberty is based on the fact that the accusations were based on lies.
Some here are trying to draw parallels between Haradinaj and Bosnian/Serbian.
Some are also taking journals and diaries as ultimate proof. I am thinking of starting a blog so that my words may be used as proof in the Hague or the Belgrade courts.
"1. Know Haradinaj is guilty and belongs in prison and;
2. Know Serbia is the historical, moral and legal owner of Kosovo and Metohija."
I don't know about 1 but number two I can tell you that Kosova is owned by its people that are mostly Albanians.
Historical owner at some point. The problem is time never stopped for anyone. Not even Serbs.
Moral owner? The Serbs didn't treat the land nor the people with any morality.
Well legally a state can't own peoples property and since the people generate wealth out of hard work and goods to represent it then it belongs to the people.
"italy"; you claim American Administration somehow freed the former PM of demoncratic Kosova after he proved him self by voluntarly going to the Hague to face Serb inspired allegations. The court rules that he is innocent.What part does anyone not understand.America has nothing to do with the Hague court verdict.Your "facts" don't make sense to any reasonable thinking individual.And please use your own name cause you sure as hell don't repesent "italy".By the way Italy also recognized Kosova's independence.
" …. stop, insulting ICTY. When Serbia was "cleared" from Bosnia genocide, no Serb official said that ICTY should be closed, but everyone welcomed the news.
There is no hypocrisy. Court which cleared Serbia of accusations for genocide was not ICTY but ICJ (International Court of Justice), completely different Court, where West and US have less control. ICTY is ad-hoc tribunal organized, financed and controlled by the West with a specific purpose to promote their agenda in the Balkans.
ICY is permanent, principal juridical organ of the United Nations. It is pity that they didn't investigate Srebrenica case but took ICTY official conclusions as a proven fact, although conclusions are not supported by the evidence, and even contradict the conclusion on many points.
ICJ is impartial enough to worry Americans. Remember US insistence on the contracts with individual countries giving guaranties that they will not hand over Americans accused of war crimes to international justice? It is precisely to prevent ICJ doing its work.
johny: "Also can those Serbs who claim Kosovar Albanians left Kosova because of NATO bombings, explain why Kosova Serbs did not leave Kosova because of the NATO bombings?
Are the Kosova Serbs somehow immune to bombs?"
More Kosovo Serbs civilians left Kosovo during the 78 days of NATO bombardment as a proportion of their population compared to Kosovo Albanians did. To say no Serbs left Kosovo during the bombardment is making a very wrong assumption.
To add to what Marco says, unlike Serbian defendants, the Tribunal never indicted Haradinaj for command responsibiliy so the acts of his subordinates were never an issue during the trial.
Ratko Uk, You must know very well that after the Milosevic led Greater Serbia campaign of aggression in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosova, all of the civilians victims attacked and murdered by the Serbs weren't simply dead because of "war". And NATO assisstance was appreciated.The arms embargo on the victims didn't help.
Please stop, insulting ICTY. When Serbia was "cleared" from Bosnia genocide, no Serb official said that ICTY should be closed, but everyone welcomed the news.
Nicolas Klinsman, what you think you know and what the Serbs want is in conflict with reality.If anyone has an issue, then let's take it to court and respect the outcome. The innocent verdict is justice being served unlike all the Serb criminals who have yet to face justice.You would be singing a different tune if it was the other way around.Wouldn't you?
Please stop, insulting ICTY. When Serbia was "cleared" from Bosnia genocide, no Serb official said that ICTY should be closed, but everyone welcomed the news.
So now no hypocracy please.
(PRN, 7 April 2008 08:28)
I think you will find that the Srebrenica case went through the ICJ, not the ICTY.
I think you will find that the Srebrenica case went through the ICJ, not the ICTY.
(strav, 7 April 2008 12:39)
Dear Strav,
May I remind you that they are both UN courts.
However, maybe you are implying that when one UN court rules against Serbia that is not valid but when another UN court rules in favour of Serbia then, that is the fair one...
Please learn that objectivity is subject to interpretations...
Better for Dutch newspapers and Dutch people in general if they think twice before speaking against Kosovars. Netherlands should always bear in mind the Srebrenica's shame.
You said "It was clearly NOT ordered by Belgrade,..."
To say that Serbia did not intentionally participate in killing of 8000 Muslim men and young boys is similar to saying Hitler did not order Auschwitz, but solders on the ground did it....
Please watch Srebrenica 2 from You Tube and it will definately change your thoughts...
I have nothing against Serbs BUT history should be fair and clear NOT manipulated...
the civilized world is still awaiting the capture and trial of the remaining war criminals (of ALL ethnicities) and i don't wanna hear any more phony-baloney excuses. just capture, arrest, trial. period.
In this case its so seen how serious serbian politicans are.. How dare they can say such a things, knowing that their country 10 years ago killed more than 10000, rapped more than 20000, burned more than 100000 houses, and deported a 1000000 from their houses in Kosova, and noone of serbs has been punished till now for these crimes!! Take a look in history before you talk about this things Serbia!
1.Kosova has never been a part of Serbia till after wwI.The tale that albanians did many children etc;is believed from nobody. Albanians were 100% of the population in Kosova and were catholics before you came to Balkan (See Othoman registrations in 14-15th century)
2. In former Yougoslavia albanians were the only people that had nothing to do with your culture, religion etc.
3.It seems here that all crimes during the 90's in Balkan are done only by Milloshevic and nobody else??
4. As for comparing Mladic and co. with Haradinaj I only can say: I feel sorry for you
"Why should Serbia now bring in Mladic & Karadzic if Haradinaj has been acquited?"
If Serbia wants to embrace its warcriminals, she is free to do so. The rest of the Europe does not understand why Serbia takes a stand for people that are connected to the horrible deeds from Sarajevo siege and Srebrenica massacre.
Anyway, they should have been brought to justice years ago, it is too late now.
Kostunica tries to excuse the fact that Mladic is not in the Hague, although he was in Serbia for most of the years Kostunica was in charge of the army as president, or later as prime minister. Demonising one Kosovar thug isn't going to change that, especially when that thug actually went to the Hague, something Serbian "heroes" Mladic and Karadzic have never done. Say goodbye to the premiership, Vojo.
All these statements (from politicians and readers of b92 supporting Serb view) reflect nothing new and are a prime example of a way of thinking and ideology that brought Serbia where it is today. All they do is lay blame on someone else never to look over own actions (typical claims of various Serb party leaders like Kostunica, Nikolic and others).
If you all want excuse for not delivering Karadzic or Maldic so be it (it will be another plus for Serbia among many others), but never forget that the same choices and decisions these two war crime fugitives faced and chose, Haradinaj had available but he chose something totally different from them. Haradinaj handed himself to Hauge!
Now, you all can say that the court was biased and what not, but what you need to do is to look at the case and scope of it and how prosecution presented this case and then (put emotions aside) decide whether the verdict was biased or not (at the end of the day when not guilty verdicts were handed to Serbs we did not hear anyone from Serb politician complain about the validity if the Hauge).
Kostunica, claims are nothing but a bunch of propaganda aimed at fooling its own people. This court is UN based court and it upholds those very international laws that Kostunica and may of you here hold so dear to you heart. Reading these comments, one cannot but wonder where is the end of this hypocrisy in Serbia.
"1. Know Haradinaj is guilty and belongs in prison and;
2. Know Serbia is the historical, moral and legal owner of Kosovo and Metohija."
I don't know about 1 but number two I can tell you that Kosova is owned by its people that are mostly Albanians.
Historical owner at some point. The problem is time never stopped for anyone. Not even Serbs.
Moral owner? The Serbs didn't treat the land nor the people with any morality.
Well legally a state can't own peoples property and since the people generate wealth out of hard work and goods to represent it then it belongs to the people.
Firtst of all Mr. Kostunica, it is not the so called Kosovo liberation army, but it was called exactly that, The Kosova Liberation Army.
This is where the Serbian stereotype comes. Mr. Kostunica thinks he is smarter than all of the leaders of the EU, starting from Merkel, Sarkozy, Dalema or Prodi etc. etc. He somehow thinks that by discrediting the Hague court, Serbia will not have to turn its own world criminals to the Hague as a condition for joining the EU. How wrong you are Mr. Vojo. You are not dealing with dilettante politicians like yourself in the EU. Also since your real profession is in the field of justice you might also know that the justice system is not perfect. That in some cases does not work as it should. (Even though personally I think it worked just fine). However as a professional in the justice system Mr. Kostunica you should know that you never break the system because of a few cases. Any system can never be 100% efficient. What you are asking Mr. Kostunica is that the EU declare this system to be broken, because you want to be let of the hook. That is poor thinking as a politician and as a justice professional.
Also can those Serbs who claim Kosovar Albanians left Kosova because of NATO bombings, explain why Kosova Serbs did not leave Kosova because of the NATO bombings?
Are the Kosova Serbs somehow immune to bombs?
"italy"; you claim American Administration somehow freed the former PM of demoncratic Kosova after he proved him self by voluntarly going to the Hague to face Serb inspired allegations. The court rules that he is innocent.What part does anyone not understand.America has nothing to do with the Hague court verdict.Your "facts" don't make sense to any reasonable thinking individual.And please use your own name cause you sure as hell don't repesent "italy".By the way Italy also recognized Kosova's independence.
Please stop, insulting ICTY. When Serbia was "cleared" from Bosnia genocide, no Serb official said that ICTY should be closed, but everyone welcomed the news.
Tesla, even through max. distort, everyone knows who was the victim and who was the other side.
I made that discount on percentage just to tell how big was the number of killed ppl.. even if we split the number in two parts..
I know for sure, my grandfather was killed in his home just because he refused to leave home as we did, and if we had decided to stay too, today I wouldn't be able to write in here, cause probably I would get killed that time..
Ramush Haradinaj acquital can be based on 2 things:
1. Charities sponsored very intelligently which poured money in and out into his case for the best defense
2. His innocence was proved so well that the defense did not even give a last position
Now some claim that America had a hand in this, that is simply not true. His liberty is based on the fact that the accusations were based on lies.
Some here are trying to draw parallels between Haradinaj and Bosnian/Serbian.
Some are also taking journals and diaries as ultimate proof. I am thinking of starting a blog so that my words may be used as proof in the Hague or the Belgrade courts.
Demi, I'm not a psycholgist but I don't need to be one to tell that you actually;
1. Know Haradinaj is guilty and belongs in prison and;
2. Know Serbia is the historical, moral and legal owner of Kosovo and Metohija.
The criminal led, breakaway Serbian Albanian political leadership will never get Serbia to agree to their theft and they will one day be brought to heel. Must be frustrating...As the Serb saying goes; "Oteto, prokleto". Would you like a translation, or do you also know that?
Festim, please stop lying with the 10,000 dead Albanian figure. It's less than half, including both sides, according to the UN. And maybe 1 million Albanians did run when NATO bombs started falling, but they all came back. How many Serbs came back to Kosovo after the Albanians drove them out under the eyes of NATO and UNMIK? The problem with Haradinaj, is that if the Hague was allowed to convict him, it would have shown that the UN/NATO backed a murderer. Which they did, but they could not allow that to happen to the eyes of the world.
Nicolas Klinsman, what you think you know and what the Serbs want is in conflict with reality.If anyone has an issue, then let's take it to court and respect the outcome. The innocent verdict is justice being served unlike all the Serb criminals who have yet to face justice.You would be singing a different tune if it was the other way around.Wouldn't you?
Better for Dutch newspapers and Dutch people in general if they think twice before speaking against Kosovars. Netherlands should always bear in mind the Srebrenica's shame.
Ratko Uk, You must know very well that after the Milosevic led Greater Serbia campaign of aggression in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosova, all of the civilians victims attacked and murdered by the Serbs weren't simply dead because of "war". And NATO assisstance was appreciated.The arms embargo on the victims didn't help.
I think you will find that the Srebrenica case went through the ICJ, not the ICTY.
(strav, 7 April 2008 12:39)
Dear Strav,
May I remind you that they are both UN courts.
However, maybe you are implying that when one UN court rules against Serbia that is not valid but when another UN court rules in favour of Serbia then, that is the fair one...
Please learn that objectivity is subject to interpretations...
Benny the Albanians were not Catholics hence the double headed eagle of Byzantium on their flag, they were Orthodox until most took up arms for the Turks and the Orthodox church of Albania still exists.
Also Benny of little knowledge, it is well documented that even though the Serbs were living in that area prior to the 7th Century AD, for many years Kosovo and Wetern Macedonia was known as Stara Serbia, Old Serbia, it was in the 7th Century that the Emporer Heraclius invited the Serbs to move on mass to these lands whcih were left vacant by the Lombards, by this time the Albanians had taken to the mountains where they'd been since they were devastated by the Romans when they were known as Illyrians and Epirots, indeed it is from these 2 'seperate' races that Albanians derive.
Also benny of little knowledge, you seem to need informing, Kosovo and Metohije was until the Balkan war of 1912 still under Ottoman Occupation, which was why it was 'reunified' with the Serbian people in 1914.
The Hague war crimes tribunal is not and never has been neutral, hence the absence of the likes of Sharon or Suharto whom both have more blood on their hands than Milosovic ever had.
The NATO bombing of Serbia was not a legal action, this is a fact, and the criminal cases brought before the Hague, in my opinion, were merely to put a seal of justification on an illegal act.
As for Mladic and Karadzic, Serbia could not bring them in if they wanted to or tried, they are Bosnian Serbs and within Bosnia they will be protected by their own.
No attempts at distorting history will alter the fact that Kosovo and Metohije is and always has been and always will be the spiritual heartland of the Serbs.
It's also no secret that the KLA and the US have had a friendship going for some time.
They were probably the best market for body organs
amongst other things.
Festim, its funny that your count of victims dropped 50% with only a little persuasion. The fact is most albanians here distort much of actual history which falls apart with only a little cross examination.
the civilized world is still awaiting the capture and trial of the remaining war criminals (of ALL ethnicities) and i don't wanna hear any more phony-baloney excuses. just capture, arrest, trial. period.
johny: "Also can those Serbs who claim Kosovar Albanians left Kosova because of NATO bombings, explain why Kosova Serbs did not leave Kosova because of the NATO bombings?
Are the Kosova Serbs somehow immune to bombs?"
More Kosovo Serbs civilians left Kosovo during the 78 days of NATO bombardment as a proportion of their population compared to Kosovo Albanians did. To say no Serbs left Kosovo during the bombardment is making a very wrong assumption.
Please stop, insulting ICTY. When Serbia was "cleared" from Bosnia genocide, no Serb official said that ICTY should be closed, but everyone welcomed the news.
So now no hypocracy please.
(PRN, 7 April 2008 08:28)
I think you will find that the Srebrenica case went through the ICJ, not the ICTY.
To add to what Marco says, unlike Serbian defendants, the Tribunal never indicted Haradinaj for command responsibiliy so the acts of his subordinates were never an issue during the trial.
You said "It was clearly NOT ordered by Belgrade,..."
To say that Serbia did not intentionally participate in killing of 8000 Muslim men and young boys is similar to saying Hitler did not order Auschwitz, but solders on the ground did it....
Please watch Srebrenica 2 from You Tube and it will definately change your thoughts...
I have nothing against Serbs BUT history should be fair and clear NOT manipulated...
We all know Haradinaj is guilty of many crimes as well as other Albanians also such as Ceku and Thaci.
The fact is the Hague for political reasons is only focused on alleged Serbian crimes and not Serbian victims. Although this hypocracy doesn't excuse any Serbian crimes, this double standard is infuriating to Serbians and damages any possible reconciliation between Albanians and Serbs.
You Albanians may think you've gotten away with your crimes, but in this world or the next justice will be served.
Some of these anti-Serb posters here should get a grip. There are many countries in the world who will not extradite their own nationals under any circumstances. Here in Ireland, during the troubles in the North, the British were forever trying to get the Irish government to extradite people from the South. It caused a lot of political turmoil and was eventually stopped.
Anyway, who'd extradite someone to a kangaroo court.
kostunica must be more explicit with this. it isnt just what the eu does or doesnt do, what they say. its about what will we do. he talks about state building and responsible policy after the elections and i certainly hope he means it. serbia right now is not a real state, it leaves its citizens at the mercy of others and doesn't prosecute criminals properly. israel on the other hand is a real state. they go after the killers of their people from gaza to argentina and back.
" …. stop, insulting ICTY. When Serbia was "cleared" from Bosnia genocide, no Serb official said that ICTY should be closed, but everyone welcomed the news.
There is no hypocrisy. Court which cleared Serbia of accusations for genocide was not ICTY but ICJ (International Court of Justice), completely different Court, where West and US have less control. ICTY is ad-hoc tribunal organized, financed and controlled by the West with a specific purpose to promote their agenda in the Balkans.
ICY is permanent, principal juridical organ of the United Nations. It is pity that they didn't investigate Srebrenica case but took ICTY official conclusions as a proven fact, although conclusions are not supported by the evidence, and even contradict the conclusion on many points.
ICJ is impartial enough to worry Americans. Remember US insistence on the contracts with individual countries giving guaranties that they will not hand over Americans accused of war crimes to international justice? It is precisely to prevent ICJ doing its work.
Why should Serbia now bring in Mladic & Karadzic if Haradinaj has been acquited?
This is a ridiculous result and the Serbian poeple should feel very angry about this.
I were Kosovo's Albanian, I would not be happy to have this individual back on Kosovo. But, according to the comments here, it seems that Mr Haradinaj is welcome back and that the situation of similars is fantastic. The fact that American Administration freed him to make Serbia angry, think twice while being jubilant if you are going to vote him as your Prime Minister tomorrow. But he will want to occupy that seat, even with blood.
Well....no surprise there....the Serbs should have nothing to do with the war tribunal and do everything possible to bring back all the accused! As for everybody else saying Serbs killed xxx thousand here and xxx thousand there...it was a war! People do get killed unfortunately! And why all the pressure on the Serbs for crimes allegedly committed 15 years ago?
The US killed millions with the nuclear bomb in Hiroshima....but has that been forgotten about because it happened so long ago? One rule for the US and the EU and another for the Serbs!
Before comment, I have to stress that the outpouring of putrid nationalism on this site is distasteful!
There is, of course, devil in the detail. The Hague court has now lost all credibility and why should Serbs have anything to do with such a legal stitch - up. I am honestly apalled at the judicial outcome and no wonder the Serbian people are turning toward nationalism. this verdict is an international disgrace. This is no anti - Albanian rant as i spend much time in the Balkans and have huge respect for Albanian people. The Intertnational criminal trial in the Hague for the former Yugolavia is totally discredited and should cease to exist. It is another example of Western influence, destabilising this area of South - Western Europe. A shameful day for europe!
Many of us disagreed strongly with the ICJ decision to proclaim Srebenica a genocide bypassing the "intent" requirement. You act like it was some kind of victory for Serbs, it clearly was not.
Now, you seem to be upset that the ICJ did not find that Belgrade had responsility in that case. However, if you were familiar with the events at that time you would know that relations between Belgrade and Pale had in fact broken down by that time. It was clearly NOT ordered by Belgrade, but merely a reaction of the soldiers on the ground who had suffered under Oric for years before the event. Read the ICTY's judgment of Oric and you'll see that the population of Srebenica was out of control and committed great acts of violence against the Serbian population. I strongly condemn what happened in Srebenica, but to call it genocide and claim Belgrade intended to committ genocide there and had complete control over the situation is most likely going too far.
Simply the fact that so many witnesses against Haradinaj met an untimely death says to me that he was most likely guilty of something.
Of course Serbs are upset. Just look at the populations of all these regions. Only those areas under Serbian control remained multi-ethnic. Everyone else cleansed their areas of control, yet for some reason everyone blames Serbia for committing acts of ethnic cleansing.
According to KS (#30), the acquittal of Haradinaj "is based on the fact that the accusations were based on lies."
All the major newspapers in the Netherlands (Volkskrant, NRC, Trouw) are saying that Haradinaj could not be convicted because there was not enough evidence against him. These newspapers are all arguing that some key witnesses did not want to testify against Haradinaj because they feared for their lives, and that other witnesses already had been killed before they could give evidence. Apparently, Haradinaj does have blood on his hands...
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