26

Wednesday, 02.04.2008.

12:41

Lavrov: Russia to talk Kosovo at NATO summit

Russia will raise the issue of Kosovo at the Russia-NATO summit, to be held in Bucharest on April 4.

Izvor: Beta

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26 Komentari

Sortiraj po:

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

Ahmet Isufi and Robert

Listen guys, if you have no clue about politics and international law, why do you bother writing nonsense here? If you are not able to add constructive arguments rather than nonsense, why not do something else instead?

Ian Anderson

pre 16 godina

I can see Kosovo unstable 10 years from now due to lack of recognition and not been in international organisations. Serbia is going to do everything it can to make Kosovo unstable.

KS can i ask why do you think there will be 80 recognitions by July 27th?

Milan, Melbourne

pre 16 godina

Yes the Python is right. All the K-Albanians complain about is Milosevic this and Milosevic that. Milosevic was created by the K-ALbanians. If any reader is interested, do a Google searche for New York Times articles about K-Albanian rioting, discontent in 1981 (yes 1981) you will have a greater appreciation of the current conflict and how a nobody like Milosevic became a somebody (albeit temporarily). Check out how ungrateful the K-ALbanians were even in 1981 when they had full autonomy granted to them in 1974 by Tito. See what rights they had and ask yourselves whether Milosevic stripping/maintaining autonomy would have made much diffrence. Please look it up especially our western friends sitting on either side of the fence.

KS

pre 16 godina

37 countries have recognized Kosova so far. 36 are UN member States 1 is not a UN member State.

Might I remind you that China is only recognized by 123 countries. The Vatican (Holy See) is not a UN member State. Not every country is recognized by every country. In fact most UN member countries only have 30-50 embassies world wide, meaning Kosova does not really need more than 50 countries which recognize its' sovereignty, but that number will change soon by July 27th expect at least 80 countries.

EA

pre 16 godina

"Even though the Slobodan Milošević did oppress the Kosovo Albanians, today’s Serbia, a democratic Serbia, has not given any reason to doubt in its willingness to ensure respect for minority rights,” Lavrov pointed out.

What would the Serbian panel would say to that

If a dictator endorsed by its people oppresses its "own" people he risk losing its "own" territory and its "own" people.

peter, sydney

pre 16 godina

re: peter,
Fact: ICTY & ICRC estimates put the number killed during the war in Kosovo at some 4 to 5 thousand - of ALL ethnicities.

Are you joking and can you really be this bad where you say 4 to 5000 people as they were not important. Even if it was 1person I think its to much.

Re: Python ...

If you keep pointing fingers what is going to solve?
(World Citizen, 2 April 2008 16:24)


Tell me please.. did I say that 4000 to 5000 deaths were not important?

No I did not.

This is a lie on your part.

In this particular case, 'Florin' quoted a figure of 10,000 albanian deaths. This is a figure that has been perpetuated by the lazy elements of the media since the end of hostilities in 99.

Was ICTY mission back in 2000 & 2001 to find the 'bodies' in Kosovo. Number they found was 2,788 of all nationalities. Actual ICTY reports only specify totals for individual years of 2000 & 2001, but that's what they add up to. In addition, ICRC 'book of the missing' publication for Kosovo of that time had about 3,525 people missing, once again, of all nationalities.

But these figures are out of date.

Latest ICRC publication now puts missing at 2,047. Not sure what the death toll stands at now, but remember reading something from some US official who quoted 4,600. This seems about right as
(2,788 + 3,525) ~ (4,600 + 2,047). That is why I have quoted 4,000 to 5,000 as the death toll.

Spreading propaganda & lies solves nothing oh 'citizen of the world'.

And unlike yourself & your compatriots above, I prefer to rely on facts & logic.

Stevan

pre 16 godina

Thank you Russia!

Tymi,

" … Serbia should know better then everybody that Russia is using them … "

Russia is our trusted friend. They always helped us when they were in position to do so. Through the history, Russia went to the war number of times when we or other Balkan Slav or Orthodox nations were in danger.

Tymi

pre 16 godina

If the Lavrov´s speech is translated correct, then he is making a big diplomatic mistake. Lavrov and his ambasador in UNO, are a copy of former soviet ambassadors and they were never constructive, but only destructive. In the name of the international law and USSR Made human rights, Lavrov and the Serbian government is interested only on the slavic rights. All the rest are terrorist, puppets of US, etc. The DoI of Kosovo shows that there is a much deeper problem in this planet. The role of UN. How it came that Russia is still one of the UNSC member. After the failure of USSR, as the legitimate member of UNSC after WW2, I do not see why Russia alone still possess this seat and even misuse it. There are a lot of controverse in the position of Russia after the declaration of the Independence of Kosovo. Serbia should know better then everybody that Russia is using them only to reach the imperialistic goals of Russia. Serbia is not behing the Urals. Serbia is in the heart of EU and will remain with or without Kosovo. With or without Russia. With or without US.

Roger7

pre 16 godina

Will the real Ahmet Isufi please stand up.
Ahmet Isufi has asked this question before and it has been answered.

As a reminder…

“Ahmet Isufi

Yes, but then the decision by the general assembly needs to be endorsed by the UNSC (the majority of it, including all five permanent members).

So no, Kosovo will not be able to join the UN if Russia veto their joining, as they are a permanent member. China may also be a problem for Kosovo.
(Peter Sudyka, 18 January 2008 14:47)”

“Ahmet Isufi,

You really have no idea, do you?

To become a member of the UN you must have have UNSC approval, first!
(Canadian, 18 January 2008 16:38”)

bmrusila

pre 16 godina

We did not expect anything less from Russia and I thank them again!


Hey Ahmet Isufi,

just to ask how many nicknames you picked for today? Just to inform you that b92 have let us know few days ago that you use many nicknames.

World Citizen

pre 16 godina

re: peter,
Fact: ICTY & ICRC estimates put the number killed during the war in Kosovo at some 4 to 5 thousand - of ALL ethnicities.

Are you joking and can you really be this bad where you say 4 to 5000 people as they were not important. Even if it was 1person I think its to much.

Re: Python

Are you serious about blaming K-Albanians about Milosevic wow?

It is so sad when I read comments here many people have this deep deep hate for people that do not even know. We are civilized people lets move forward stop with bickering. Past generations made many mistakes in both sides lets work together ( even Israeli and Palestinian people work with each other to a better future) I expect more from all of you.

If you keep pointing fingers what is going to solve?

Dragan

pre 16 godina

Thank you Sergei. Your words are music to every Serb's ears.
There you have it, albanians. 'Straight from the horse's mouth', as the saying goes. You will never have UN, or EU, membership. You will never get away with your attempted theft of sovereign Serbian soil. Your 'greater albania' project has failed.

Oh, and your hero, cowbowy George, can't help you either.
Cheers!

peter, sydney

pre 16 godina

Well said Mr Lavrov. You certainly seem to have struck a chord with K-albanian camp.

No recognition from the UN. No membership in the EU. And a faltering recognition effort that will eventually grind to a halt.

Status.. Limbo.


Ahmet Isufi:
> As you can see the headline mentions VETO, but when I read the text(entire article word veto is not mentioned. "

You are grasping at straws. Lavrov says:

"Russia will not allow Kosovo fully-fledged UN membership, says Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. "

Definitive. You then say:

> Russia cannot VETO the will of 2/3 of UN General Assembly.I would for Mr. Lavrov to give us some legal proof that he can overide 2/3 majority in UN Assembly.

To become a member of the UN, candidate first submits application to UN General Secretary. Application then goes to UN Security Council for acceptance. Needs 9 out of 15 votes & veto's apply. If and only if application is accepted by UN SC, then goes before General Assembly where it needs a 2/3 majority for success.

Here is the appropriate UN webpage detailing this. Info is at the end:

http://www.un.org/geninfo/faq/briefingpapers/briefing2a.htm

Russia can indeed veto the application in the Security Council.

Dead wrong Ahmet.. yet again.


Florin:
> Serbia was already punished by being stripped of its right to exercise its sovereignty in Kosovo, not to mention the NATO bombing, where tens of thousands of Kosovo Serbs became refugees or disappeared from the territory of Kosovo,” the minister recalled.
Comment "Mr. Lavrov, where disappeared hundred thousand Albanian refugees, and ten thousand of Albanian killed and more people disappeared .
Please once in your live be more realistic; because you can not push it further more in this way".

Where have all the albanian refugees disappeared to? Those that wanted to, have returned to Kosovo a decade ago.

Fact: the K-albanian population in Kosovo is now higher than it was before the civil war a decade ago.

Fact: the K-serb population is over 200,000 lower now than it was before the civil war.

10,000 dead albanians?

Fact: ICTY & ICRC estimates put the number killed during the war in Kosovo at some 4 to 5 thousand - of ALL ethnicities. In addition, NATO bombing killed another 500 to 1800 (NATO figure / Serbia's figure) serbs in Serbia. In addition, a further 800 or so serbs have been killed in the last 8 to 9 years even while protected by KFOR.

Those are the real facts oh 'realistic' one.


avi:
> I would not dare to mention justice or human rights..

Good then don't.

Try living in one of the serb enclaves in Kosovo for the past 8 to 9 years.


Robert:
> I agree with Ahmeti's opinion..

Then you are wrong.

> ..that's is not going to affect Kosovo's indepedence since the majority of UN states recognized already..

There are 192 member states in the UN. Last I heard, 36 have recognised UDI.

19 percent does not constitute a majority.. wrong again.

> ..an there are a lot that are going to recognize it soon.

Your opinion. Mine is given above. Given your track record, I'll stick to mine.


nikshala:

> ..So all serb leaders are 'Milosevic's at heart'..

Proof? None.

Hashim Thaci, the leader of the K-albanians is an ex-member of the KLA & was such back when the KLA was classified by the americans as a terrorist organisation.

That makes him an ex-terrorist as well.

This man has undoubtedly killed people. Kostunica et al have not.

I for one would not choose to live under a murderer & ex-terrorist.

nikshala

pre 16 godina

"“Even though the Slobodan Milošević did oppress the Kosovo Albanians, today’s Serbia, a democratic Serbia, has not given any reason to doubt in its willingness to ensure respect for minority rights,” Lavrov pointed out."

haha, when it comes to albanians, all serb leaders (or should i say most of them) are Milosevics at heart, and that won't change in the forseeable future. The recent actions and speeches by serbian leaders, particualrly DSS and Radicals, have proved this.

Python

pre 16 godina

To all Albanians, you created Milosevic and brought disaster onto yourselves and others in the Balkans. He would have never come to power has it not been for you. Now you are repeating the same mistake again but this time consequences will be far greater I am afraid. And you can only blame yourselves.

Ana

pre 16 godina

RE: FLORIN

As always exagerating with numbers. http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/pearl123199.htm

Or is the Wall Street Journal on Serbia's pay list as well? I could send you more links from other world newspapers and TV's if you want but they all agree on this one...

As far as Robert is concerned:

Will you please expalin to us how are 38 countries the mayority of 197 countries? You must have gone to the same schools were K-Albanians learned history...

Ratko, UK

pre 16 godina

Only one of the five permanent members of the UN have to veto the plan for it not to proceed. Looks like Kosovo will not be a part of the UN. China will also not recognise Kosovo.

Stefan

pre 16 godina

Robert, you dont know what your talking about, less than 35 countries recognized kosovo.
That is not a majority.
Your ignorance seems familiar, I see it on tv all the time, your american right?

Sergei

pre 16 godina

They must not teach math in Albania, or have any media outside the Voice of America. Majority of what states have recognized? 2/3 of what? Hundreds of thousends disappeared Albanians? Maybe from Albania (and occupying Kosovo.) Oh, and the Envir Hoxhas and George Bushs of the world have much to teach us about human rights.

lowe

pre 16 godina

"Lavrov: Russia will veto Kosovo UN membership"
As you can see the headline mentions VETO, but when I read the text(entire article word veto is not mentioned. Regardless, Russia cannot VETO the will of 2/3 of UN General Assembly.I would for Mr. Lavrov to give us some legal proof that he can overide 2/3 majority in UN Assembly.
(Ahmet Isufi, 2 April 2008 12:53"

Ahmet Isufi,

Let me help you -- the last but two paragraph stated "For this reason, he said, Russia would not allow Kosovo to join the UN."

If this is not a veto, then what do you call it? More bad news for you, Moscow is not the only one who will veto Pristina's entry, the Chinese will veto too.

Robert

pre 16 godina

I agree with Ahmeti's opinion, that's is not going to affect Kosovo's indepedence since the majority of UN states recognized already an there are a lot that are going to recognize it soon.

Florin

pre 16 godina

Reflection to Mr.Lavrov opinion:
Such a sanction was “all the more unlawful given that in 1999, Serbia was already punished by being stripped of its right to exercise its sovereignty in Kosovo, not to mention the NATO bombing, where tens of thousands of Kosovo Serbs became refugees or disappeared from the territory of Kosovo,” the minister recalled.
Comment "Mr. Lavrov, where disappeared hundred thousand Albanian refugees, and ten thousand of Albanian killed and more people disappeared .
Please once in your live be more realistic; because you can not push it further more in this way".

Ahmet Isufi

pre 16 godina

"Lavrov: Russia will veto Kosovo UN membership"
As you can see the headline mentions VETO, but when I read the text(entire article word veto is not mentioned. Regardless, Russia cannot VETO the will of 2/3 of UN General Assembly.I would for Mr. Lavrov to give us some legal proof that he can overide 2/3 majority in UN Assembly.

Ratko, UK

pre 16 godina

Only one of the five permanent members of the UN have to veto the plan for it not to proceed. Looks like Kosovo will not be a part of the UN. China will also not recognise Kosovo.

Ana

pre 16 godina

RE: FLORIN

As always exagerating with numbers. http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/pearl123199.htm

Or is the Wall Street Journal on Serbia's pay list as well? I could send you more links from other world newspapers and TV's if you want but they all agree on this one...

As far as Robert is concerned:

Will you please expalin to us how are 38 countries the mayority of 197 countries? You must have gone to the same schools were K-Albanians learned history...

Dragan

pre 16 godina

Thank you Sergei. Your words are music to every Serb's ears.
There you have it, albanians. 'Straight from the horse's mouth', as the saying goes. You will never have UN, or EU, membership. You will never get away with your attempted theft of sovereign Serbian soil. Your 'greater albania' project has failed.

Oh, and your hero, cowbowy George, can't help you either.
Cheers!

Stefan

pre 16 godina

Robert, you dont know what your talking about, less than 35 countries recognized kosovo.
That is not a majority.
Your ignorance seems familiar, I see it on tv all the time, your american right?

peter, sydney

pre 16 godina

Well said Mr Lavrov. You certainly seem to have struck a chord with K-albanian camp.

No recognition from the UN. No membership in the EU. And a faltering recognition effort that will eventually grind to a halt.

Status.. Limbo.


Ahmet Isufi:
> As you can see the headline mentions VETO, but when I read the text(entire article word veto is not mentioned. "

You are grasping at straws. Lavrov says:

"Russia will not allow Kosovo fully-fledged UN membership, says Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. "

Definitive. You then say:

> Russia cannot VETO the will of 2/3 of UN General Assembly.I would for Mr. Lavrov to give us some legal proof that he can overide 2/3 majority in UN Assembly.

To become a member of the UN, candidate first submits application to UN General Secretary. Application then goes to UN Security Council for acceptance. Needs 9 out of 15 votes & veto's apply. If and only if application is accepted by UN SC, then goes before General Assembly where it needs a 2/3 majority for success.

Here is the appropriate UN webpage detailing this. Info is at the end:

http://www.un.org/geninfo/faq/briefingpapers/briefing2a.htm

Russia can indeed veto the application in the Security Council.

Dead wrong Ahmet.. yet again.


Florin:
> Serbia was already punished by being stripped of its right to exercise its sovereignty in Kosovo, not to mention the NATO bombing, where tens of thousands of Kosovo Serbs became refugees or disappeared from the territory of Kosovo,” the minister recalled.
Comment "Mr. Lavrov, where disappeared hundred thousand Albanian refugees, and ten thousand of Albanian killed and more people disappeared .
Please once in your live be more realistic; because you can not push it further more in this way".

Where have all the albanian refugees disappeared to? Those that wanted to, have returned to Kosovo a decade ago.

Fact: the K-albanian population in Kosovo is now higher than it was before the civil war a decade ago.

Fact: the K-serb population is over 200,000 lower now than it was before the civil war.

10,000 dead albanians?

Fact: ICTY & ICRC estimates put the number killed during the war in Kosovo at some 4 to 5 thousand - of ALL ethnicities. In addition, NATO bombing killed another 500 to 1800 (NATO figure / Serbia's figure) serbs in Serbia. In addition, a further 800 or so serbs have been killed in the last 8 to 9 years even while protected by KFOR.

Those are the real facts oh 'realistic' one.


avi:
> I would not dare to mention justice or human rights..

Good then don't.

Try living in one of the serb enclaves in Kosovo for the past 8 to 9 years.


Robert:
> I agree with Ahmeti's opinion..

Then you are wrong.

> ..that's is not going to affect Kosovo's indepedence since the majority of UN states recognized already..

There are 192 member states in the UN. Last I heard, 36 have recognised UDI.

19 percent does not constitute a majority.. wrong again.

> ..an there are a lot that are going to recognize it soon.

Your opinion. Mine is given above. Given your track record, I'll stick to mine.


nikshala:

> ..So all serb leaders are 'Milosevic's at heart'..

Proof? None.

Hashim Thaci, the leader of the K-albanians is an ex-member of the KLA & was such back when the KLA was classified by the americans as a terrorist organisation.

That makes him an ex-terrorist as well.

This man has undoubtedly killed people. Kostunica et al have not.

I for one would not choose to live under a murderer & ex-terrorist.

lowe

pre 16 godina

"Lavrov: Russia will veto Kosovo UN membership"
As you can see the headline mentions VETO, but when I read the text(entire article word veto is not mentioned. Regardless, Russia cannot VETO the will of 2/3 of UN General Assembly.I would for Mr. Lavrov to give us some legal proof that he can overide 2/3 majority in UN Assembly.
(Ahmet Isufi, 2 April 2008 12:53"

Ahmet Isufi,

Let me help you -- the last but two paragraph stated "For this reason, he said, Russia would not allow Kosovo to join the UN."

If this is not a veto, then what do you call it? More bad news for you, Moscow is not the only one who will veto Pristina's entry, the Chinese will veto too.

Python

pre 16 godina

To all Albanians, you created Milosevic and brought disaster onto yourselves and others in the Balkans. He would have never come to power has it not been for you. Now you are repeating the same mistake again but this time consequences will be far greater I am afraid. And you can only blame yourselves.

Sergei

pre 16 godina

They must not teach math in Albania, or have any media outside the Voice of America. Majority of what states have recognized? 2/3 of what? Hundreds of thousends disappeared Albanians? Maybe from Albania (and occupying Kosovo.) Oh, and the Envir Hoxhas and George Bushs of the world have much to teach us about human rights.

Roger7

pre 16 godina

Will the real Ahmet Isufi please stand up.
Ahmet Isufi has asked this question before and it has been answered.

As a reminder…

“Ahmet Isufi

Yes, but then the decision by the general assembly needs to be endorsed by the UNSC (the majority of it, including all five permanent members).

So no, Kosovo will not be able to join the UN if Russia veto their joining, as they are a permanent member. China may also be a problem for Kosovo.
(Peter Sudyka, 18 January 2008 14:47)”

“Ahmet Isufi,

You really have no idea, do you?

To become a member of the UN you must have have UNSC approval, first!
(Canadian, 18 January 2008 16:38”)

bmrusila

pre 16 godina

We did not expect anything less from Russia and I thank them again!


Hey Ahmet Isufi,

just to ask how many nicknames you picked for today? Just to inform you that b92 have let us know few days ago that you use many nicknames.

Ahmet Isufi

pre 16 godina

"Lavrov: Russia will veto Kosovo UN membership"
As you can see the headline mentions VETO, but when I read the text(entire article word veto is not mentioned. Regardless, Russia cannot VETO the will of 2/3 of UN General Assembly.I would for Mr. Lavrov to give us some legal proof that he can overide 2/3 majority in UN Assembly.

peter, sydney

pre 16 godina

re: peter,
Fact: ICTY & ICRC estimates put the number killed during the war in Kosovo at some 4 to 5 thousand - of ALL ethnicities.

Are you joking and can you really be this bad where you say 4 to 5000 people as they were not important. Even if it was 1person I think its to much.

Re: Python ...

If you keep pointing fingers what is going to solve?
(World Citizen, 2 April 2008 16:24)


Tell me please.. did I say that 4000 to 5000 deaths were not important?

No I did not.

This is a lie on your part.

In this particular case, 'Florin' quoted a figure of 10,000 albanian deaths. This is a figure that has been perpetuated by the lazy elements of the media since the end of hostilities in 99.

Was ICTY mission back in 2000 & 2001 to find the 'bodies' in Kosovo. Number they found was 2,788 of all nationalities. Actual ICTY reports only specify totals for individual years of 2000 & 2001, but that's what they add up to. In addition, ICRC 'book of the missing' publication for Kosovo of that time had about 3,525 people missing, once again, of all nationalities.

But these figures are out of date.

Latest ICRC publication now puts missing at 2,047. Not sure what the death toll stands at now, but remember reading something from some US official who quoted 4,600. This seems about right as
(2,788 + 3,525) ~ (4,600 + 2,047). That is why I have quoted 4,000 to 5,000 as the death toll.

Spreading propaganda & lies solves nothing oh 'citizen of the world'.

And unlike yourself & your compatriots above, I prefer to rely on facts & logic.

Robert

pre 16 godina

I agree with Ahmeti's opinion, that's is not going to affect Kosovo's indepedence since the majority of UN states recognized already an there are a lot that are going to recognize it soon.

nikshala

pre 16 godina

"“Even though the Slobodan Milošević did oppress the Kosovo Albanians, today’s Serbia, a democratic Serbia, has not given any reason to doubt in its willingness to ensure respect for minority rights,” Lavrov pointed out."

haha, when it comes to albanians, all serb leaders (or should i say most of them) are Milosevics at heart, and that won't change in the forseeable future. The recent actions and speeches by serbian leaders, particualrly DSS and Radicals, have proved this.

Stevan

pre 16 godina

Thank you Russia!

Tymi,

" … Serbia should know better then everybody that Russia is using them … "

Russia is our trusted friend. They always helped us when they were in position to do so. Through the history, Russia went to the war number of times when we or other Balkan Slav or Orthodox nations were in danger.

EA

pre 16 godina

"Even though the Slobodan Milošević did oppress the Kosovo Albanians, today’s Serbia, a democratic Serbia, has not given any reason to doubt in its willingness to ensure respect for minority rights,” Lavrov pointed out.

What would the Serbian panel would say to that

If a dictator endorsed by its people oppresses its "own" people he risk losing its "own" territory and its "own" people.

Florin

pre 16 godina

Reflection to Mr.Lavrov opinion:
Such a sanction was “all the more unlawful given that in 1999, Serbia was already punished by being stripped of its right to exercise its sovereignty in Kosovo, not to mention the NATO bombing, where tens of thousands of Kosovo Serbs became refugees or disappeared from the territory of Kosovo,” the minister recalled.
Comment "Mr. Lavrov, where disappeared hundred thousand Albanian refugees, and ten thousand of Albanian killed and more people disappeared .
Please once in your live be more realistic; because you can not push it further more in this way".

Milan, Melbourne

pre 16 godina

Yes the Python is right. All the K-Albanians complain about is Milosevic this and Milosevic that. Milosevic was created by the K-ALbanians. If any reader is interested, do a Google searche for New York Times articles about K-Albanian rioting, discontent in 1981 (yes 1981) you will have a greater appreciation of the current conflict and how a nobody like Milosevic became a somebody (albeit temporarily). Check out how ungrateful the K-ALbanians were even in 1981 when they had full autonomy granted to them in 1974 by Tito. See what rights they had and ask yourselves whether Milosevic stripping/maintaining autonomy would have made much diffrence. Please look it up especially our western friends sitting on either side of the fence.

Ian Anderson

pre 16 godina

I can see Kosovo unstable 10 years from now due to lack of recognition and not been in international organisations. Serbia is going to do everything it can to make Kosovo unstable.

KS can i ask why do you think there will be 80 recognitions by July 27th?

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

Ahmet Isufi and Robert

Listen guys, if you have no clue about politics and international law, why do you bother writing nonsense here? If you are not able to add constructive arguments rather than nonsense, why not do something else instead?

World Citizen

pre 16 godina

re: peter,
Fact: ICTY & ICRC estimates put the number killed during the war in Kosovo at some 4 to 5 thousand - of ALL ethnicities.

Are you joking and can you really be this bad where you say 4 to 5000 people as they were not important. Even if it was 1person I think its to much.

Re: Python

Are you serious about blaming K-Albanians about Milosevic wow?

It is so sad when I read comments here many people have this deep deep hate for people that do not even know. We are civilized people lets move forward stop with bickering. Past generations made many mistakes in both sides lets work together ( even Israeli and Palestinian people work with each other to a better future) I expect more from all of you.

If you keep pointing fingers what is going to solve?

Tymi

pre 16 godina

If the Lavrov´s speech is translated correct, then he is making a big diplomatic mistake. Lavrov and his ambasador in UNO, are a copy of former soviet ambassadors and they were never constructive, but only destructive. In the name of the international law and USSR Made human rights, Lavrov and the Serbian government is interested only on the slavic rights. All the rest are terrorist, puppets of US, etc. The DoI of Kosovo shows that there is a much deeper problem in this planet. The role of UN. How it came that Russia is still one of the UNSC member. After the failure of USSR, as the legitimate member of UNSC after WW2, I do not see why Russia alone still possess this seat and even misuse it. There are a lot of controverse in the position of Russia after the declaration of the Independence of Kosovo. Serbia should know better then everybody that Russia is using them only to reach the imperialistic goals of Russia. Serbia is not behing the Urals. Serbia is in the heart of EU and will remain with or without Kosovo. With or without Russia. With or without US.

KS

pre 16 godina

37 countries have recognized Kosova so far. 36 are UN member States 1 is not a UN member State.

Might I remind you that China is only recognized by 123 countries. The Vatican (Holy See) is not a UN member State. Not every country is recognized by every country. In fact most UN member countries only have 30-50 embassies world wide, meaning Kosova does not really need more than 50 countries which recognize its' sovereignty, but that number will change soon by July 27th expect at least 80 countries.

Ahmet Isufi

pre 16 godina

"Lavrov: Russia will veto Kosovo UN membership"
As you can see the headline mentions VETO, but when I read the text(entire article word veto is not mentioned. Regardless, Russia cannot VETO the will of 2/3 of UN General Assembly.I would for Mr. Lavrov to give us some legal proof that he can overide 2/3 majority in UN Assembly.

Florin

pre 16 godina

Reflection to Mr.Lavrov opinion:
Such a sanction was “all the more unlawful given that in 1999, Serbia was already punished by being stripped of its right to exercise its sovereignty in Kosovo, not to mention the NATO bombing, where tens of thousands of Kosovo Serbs became refugees or disappeared from the territory of Kosovo,” the minister recalled.
Comment "Mr. Lavrov, where disappeared hundred thousand Albanian refugees, and ten thousand of Albanian killed and more people disappeared .
Please once in your live be more realistic; because you can not push it further more in this way".

Robert

pre 16 godina

I agree with Ahmeti's opinion, that's is not going to affect Kosovo's indepedence since the majority of UN states recognized already an there are a lot that are going to recognize it soon.

nikshala

pre 16 godina

"“Even though the Slobodan Milošević did oppress the Kosovo Albanians, today’s Serbia, a democratic Serbia, has not given any reason to doubt in its willingness to ensure respect for minority rights,” Lavrov pointed out."

haha, when it comes to albanians, all serb leaders (or should i say most of them) are Milosevics at heart, and that won't change in the forseeable future. The recent actions and speeches by serbian leaders, particualrly DSS and Radicals, have proved this.

Tymi

pre 16 godina

If the Lavrov´s speech is translated correct, then he is making a big diplomatic mistake. Lavrov and his ambasador in UNO, are a copy of former soviet ambassadors and they were never constructive, but only destructive. In the name of the international law and USSR Made human rights, Lavrov and the Serbian government is interested only on the slavic rights. All the rest are terrorist, puppets of US, etc. The DoI of Kosovo shows that there is a much deeper problem in this planet. The role of UN. How it came that Russia is still one of the UNSC member. After the failure of USSR, as the legitimate member of UNSC after WW2, I do not see why Russia alone still possess this seat and even misuse it. There are a lot of controverse in the position of Russia after the declaration of the Independence of Kosovo. Serbia should know better then everybody that Russia is using them only to reach the imperialistic goals of Russia. Serbia is not behing the Urals. Serbia is in the heart of EU and will remain with or without Kosovo. With or without Russia. With or without US.

World Citizen

pre 16 godina

re: peter,
Fact: ICTY & ICRC estimates put the number killed during the war in Kosovo at some 4 to 5 thousand - of ALL ethnicities.

Are you joking and can you really be this bad where you say 4 to 5000 people as they were not important. Even if it was 1person I think its to much.

Re: Python

Are you serious about blaming K-Albanians about Milosevic wow?

It is so sad when I read comments here many people have this deep deep hate for people that do not even know. We are civilized people lets move forward stop with bickering. Past generations made many mistakes in both sides lets work together ( even Israeli and Palestinian people work with each other to a better future) I expect more from all of you.

If you keep pointing fingers what is going to solve?

EA

pre 16 godina

"Even though the Slobodan Milošević did oppress the Kosovo Albanians, today’s Serbia, a democratic Serbia, has not given any reason to doubt in its willingness to ensure respect for minority rights,” Lavrov pointed out.

What would the Serbian panel would say to that

If a dictator endorsed by its people oppresses its "own" people he risk losing its "own" territory and its "own" people.

Stefan

pre 16 godina

Robert, you dont know what your talking about, less than 35 countries recognized kosovo.
That is not a majority.
Your ignorance seems familiar, I see it on tv all the time, your american right?

Python

pre 16 godina

To all Albanians, you created Milosevic and brought disaster onto yourselves and others in the Balkans. He would have never come to power has it not been for you. Now you are repeating the same mistake again but this time consequences will be far greater I am afraid. And you can only blame yourselves.

Ana

pre 16 godina

RE: FLORIN

As always exagerating with numbers. http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/pearl123199.htm

Or is the Wall Street Journal on Serbia's pay list as well? I could send you more links from other world newspapers and TV's if you want but they all agree on this one...

As far as Robert is concerned:

Will you please expalin to us how are 38 countries the mayority of 197 countries? You must have gone to the same schools were K-Albanians learned history...

lowe

pre 16 godina

"Lavrov: Russia will veto Kosovo UN membership"
As you can see the headline mentions VETO, but when I read the text(entire article word veto is not mentioned. Regardless, Russia cannot VETO the will of 2/3 of UN General Assembly.I would for Mr. Lavrov to give us some legal proof that he can overide 2/3 majority in UN Assembly.
(Ahmet Isufi, 2 April 2008 12:53"

Ahmet Isufi,

Let me help you -- the last but two paragraph stated "For this reason, he said, Russia would not allow Kosovo to join the UN."

If this is not a veto, then what do you call it? More bad news for you, Moscow is not the only one who will veto Pristina's entry, the Chinese will veto too.

Dragan

pre 16 godina

Thank you Sergei. Your words are music to every Serb's ears.
There you have it, albanians. 'Straight from the horse's mouth', as the saying goes. You will never have UN, or EU, membership. You will never get away with your attempted theft of sovereign Serbian soil. Your 'greater albania' project has failed.

Oh, and your hero, cowbowy George, can't help you either.
Cheers!

Roger7

pre 16 godina

Will the real Ahmet Isufi please stand up.
Ahmet Isufi has asked this question before and it has been answered.

As a reminder…

“Ahmet Isufi

Yes, but then the decision by the general assembly needs to be endorsed by the UNSC (the majority of it, including all five permanent members).

So no, Kosovo will not be able to join the UN if Russia veto their joining, as they are a permanent member. China may also be a problem for Kosovo.
(Peter Sudyka, 18 January 2008 14:47)”

“Ahmet Isufi,

You really have no idea, do you?

To become a member of the UN you must have have UNSC approval, first!
(Canadian, 18 January 2008 16:38”)

bmrusila

pre 16 godina

We did not expect anything less from Russia and I thank them again!


Hey Ahmet Isufi,

just to ask how many nicknames you picked for today? Just to inform you that b92 have let us know few days ago that you use many nicknames.

Ratko, UK

pre 16 godina

Only one of the five permanent members of the UN have to veto the plan for it not to proceed. Looks like Kosovo will not be a part of the UN. China will also not recognise Kosovo.

Sergei

pre 16 godina

They must not teach math in Albania, or have any media outside the Voice of America. Majority of what states have recognized? 2/3 of what? Hundreds of thousends disappeared Albanians? Maybe from Albania (and occupying Kosovo.) Oh, and the Envir Hoxhas and George Bushs of the world have much to teach us about human rights.

peter, sydney

pre 16 godina

Well said Mr Lavrov. You certainly seem to have struck a chord with K-albanian camp.

No recognition from the UN. No membership in the EU. And a faltering recognition effort that will eventually grind to a halt.

Status.. Limbo.


Ahmet Isufi:
> As you can see the headline mentions VETO, but when I read the text(entire article word veto is not mentioned. "

You are grasping at straws. Lavrov says:

"Russia will not allow Kosovo fully-fledged UN membership, says Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. "

Definitive. You then say:

> Russia cannot VETO the will of 2/3 of UN General Assembly.I would for Mr. Lavrov to give us some legal proof that he can overide 2/3 majority in UN Assembly.

To become a member of the UN, candidate first submits application to UN General Secretary. Application then goes to UN Security Council for acceptance. Needs 9 out of 15 votes & veto's apply. If and only if application is accepted by UN SC, then goes before General Assembly where it needs a 2/3 majority for success.

Here is the appropriate UN webpage detailing this. Info is at the end:

http://www.un.org/geninfo/faq/briefingpapers/briefing2a.htm

Russia can indeed veto the application in the Security Council.

Dead wrong Ahmet.. yet again.


Florin:
> Serbia was already punished by being stripped of its right to exercise its sovereignty in Kosovo, not to mention the NATO bombing, where tens of thousands of Kosovo Serbs became refugees or disappeared from the territory of Kosovo,” the minister recalled.
Comment "Mr. Lavrov, where disappeared hundred thousand Albanian refugees, and ten thousand of Albanian killed and more people disappeared .
Please once in your live be more realistic; because you can not push it further more in this way".

Where have all the albanian refugees disappeared to? Those that wanted to, have returned to Kosovo a decade ago.

Fact: the K-albanian population in Kosovo is now higher than it was before the civil war a decade ago.

Fact: the K-serb population is over 200,000 lower now than it was before the civil war.

10,000 dead albanians?

Fact: ICTY & ICRC estimates put the number killed during the war in Kosovo at some 4 to 5 thousand - of ALL ethnicities. In addition, NATO bombing killed another 500 to 1800 (NATO figure / Serbia's figure) serbs in Serbia. In addition, a further 800 or so serbs have been killed in the last 8 to 9 years even while protected by KFOR.

Those are the real facts oh 'realistic' one.


avi:
> I would not dare to mention justice or human rights..

Good then don't.

Try living in one of the serb enclaves in Kosovo for the past 8 to 9 years.


Robert:
> I agree with Ahmeti's opinion..

Then you are wrong.

> ..that's is not going to affect Kosovo's indepedence since the majority of UN states recognized already..

There are 192 member states in the UN. Last I heard, 36 have recognised UDI.

19 percent does not constitute a majority.. wrong again.

> ..an there are a lot that are going to recognize it soon.

Your opinion. Mine is given above. Given your track record, I'll stick to mine.


nikshala:

> ..So all serb leaders are 'Milosevic's at heart'..

Proof? None.

Hashim Thaci, the leader of the K-albanians is an ex-member of the KLA & was such back when the KLA was classified by the americans as a terrorist organisation.

That makes him an ex-terrorist as well.

This man has undoubtedly killed people. Kostunica et al have not.

I for one would not choose to live under a murderer & ex-terrorist.

peter, sydney

pre 16 godina

re: peter,
Fact: ICTY & ICRC estimates put the number killed during the war in Kosovo at some 4 to 5 thousand - of ALL ethnicities.

Are you joking and can you really be this bad where you say 4 to 5000 people as they were not important. Even if it was 1person I think its to much.

Re: Python ...

If you keep pointing fingers what is going to solve?
(World Citizen, 2 April 2008 16:24)


Tell me please.. did I say that 4000 to 5000 deaths were not important?

No I did not.

This is a lie on your part.

In this particular case, 'Florin' quoted a figure of 10,000 albanian deaths. This is a figure that has been perpetuated by the lazy elements of the media since the end of hostilities in 99.

Was ICTY mission back in 2000 & 2001 to find the 'bodies' in Kosovo. Number they found was 2,788 of all nationalities. Actual ICTY reports only specify totals for individual years of 2000 & 2001, but that's what they add up to. In addition, ICRC 'book of the missing' publication for Kosovo of that time had about 3,525 people missing, once again, of all nationalities.

But these figures are out of date.

Latest ICRC publication now puts missing at 2,047. Not sure what the death toll stands at now, but remember reading something from some US official who quoted 4,600. This seems about right as
(2,788 + 3,525) ~ (4,600 + 2,047). That is why I have quoted 4,000 to 5,000 as the death toll.

Spreading propaganda & lies solves nothing oh 'citizen of the world'.

And unlike yourself & your compatriots above, I prefer to rely on facts & logic.

Stevan

pre 16 godina

Thank you Russia!

Tymi,

" … Serbia should know better then everybody that Russia is using them … "

Russia is our trusted friend. They always helped us when they were in position to do so. Through the history, Russia went to the war number of times when we or other Balkan Slav or Orthodox nations were in danger.

Milan, Melbourne

pre 16 godina

Yes the Python is right. All the K-Albanians complain about is Milosevic this and Milosevic that. Milosevic was created by the K-ALbanians. If any reader is interested, do a Google searche for New York Times articles about K-Albanian rioting, discontent in 1981 (yes 1981) you will have a greater appreciation of the current conflict and how a nobody like Milosevic became a somebody (albeit temporarily). Check out how ungrateful the K-ALbanians were even in 1981 when they had full autonomy granted to them in 1974 by Tito. See what rights they had and ask yourselves whether Milosevic stripping/maintaining autonomy would have made much diffrence. Please look it up especially our western friends sitting on either side of the fence.

KS

pre 16 godina

37 countries have recognized Kosova so far. 36 are UN member States 1 is not a UN member State.

Might I remind you that China is only recognized by 123 countries. The Vatican (Holy See) is not a UN member State. Not every country is recognized by every country. In fact most UN member countries only have 30-50 embassies world wide, meaning Kosova does not really need more than 50 countries which recognize its' sovereignty, but that number will change soon by July 27th expect at least 80 countries.

Ian Anderson

pre 16 godina

I can see Kosovo unstable 10 years from now due to lack of recognition and not been in international organisations. Serbia is going to do everything it can to make Kosovo unstable.

KS can i ask why do you think there will be 80 recognitions by July 27th?

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

Ahmet Isufi and Robert

Listen guys, if you have no clue about politics and international law, why do you bother writing nonsense here? If you are not able to add constructive arguments rather than nonsense, why not do something else instead?