NATO: No invitation for Macedonia

This is all about the AMBO pipeline and its builder and operator the US-registered Albanian Macedonian Bulgarian Oil Corporation.

The AMBO pipeline 1.1 billion dollar will pump Caspian oil from the Bulgarian port of Burgas via Macedonia to the Albanian port of Vlora, for transport to European countries and the United States.

It is seldom the behavior that is important, but the reason for the behavior.

Now that I learned so much about genetic makeup of Balkan people, I started wandering why the brave mediteranian-helenic Skoplje people accepted to be a part of Tito-Yuga without objections? Was it because he invented them as a nation and invented their language as well? Genius as he was, did he know more about genetics before the science did?

It IS about the AMBO as far as the US is concerned. It comes down to US interest in the region - nothing new there. But the falsehoods of history being portrayed by the Slavic population is rediculous. They entered the region in the 5th and 6th century, almost a millinium after Alexander existed. There are history books writen that are older then any Oxford "joke". One book that is writen and respected is the Bible. It refers to Alexander and the Grecians. All lands under Macedonia were assimulated with the Hellenic language - proof is on the writing of centuries old walls, building,statues..... This is something that Tito did - he has distorted history so that there can be apirations for the Hellenic region of Macedonia...it's that his trick is working.

Dear educated people,

Don't let a few million people lie about, steel, kidnap, trick you to believe, or distort a "history" that they have imagined to be true...there is no PROOF to what they spew.

Regarding the post by Dimitar:
my friend I dont know if you are aware but the proffesor that did the genetic studies that you mention was fired with no compensation (another greek conspiracy I guess??). These results which claimed Greeks are newcomers in the region(!) and have a high concentration of African DNA were ridiculed by all other scientists (except Skopians) and were never (before or after) reached again. On the contrary almost all studies conducted express how impresive is the DNA resemplance of ancient and modern Greeks and that include macedonians too (the real ones not slav-macedonians). Links available if you wish. BTW although these reports were falsiefied whats wrong with "high concentration of African DNA?" someone could accuse you of racism.

Dimitar
I will refer you to the statement made by your former prime-minister Georgievski the other day to the Bulgarian news agency Focus.He defined as sheer stupidity Skopje's claims to ancient Macedonian history and also to your claim about classical macedonian language being the base of your mixed and match modern language.He explained that your biggest problem with your claims is the gap of 2000 years that exists between the ancient macedonians and skopjans and you've got not a shred of scientific proof of any links.He concluded by suggesting that there should be only a name for FYROM with geographical connotations.This is what the Greeks have been saying.

I would just like our posters not to put all Slavs in the same basket with Macedonians. No true Slav will fake the history. I like Macedonians but when something is not right then it is not right. Claiming Alexander the Great as a Slav is incredibly stupid and no one will ever believe in this.

Please Macedonians do not embarrass yourself, why don’t you stick to your history.
bmrusila

I couldn't have said all this better myself.I thank you for your posting that puts some sanity into the debate.The main issue here is not the name but the actions and beliefs of F.Y.R
Macedonia.Since 1991 they have bombarded the Greeks with textbooks,speeches,maps and national documents that show Macedonia in Greece as an occupied territory.Lately
we see images of their prime-
minister laying a wreath by a
flag showing a map of greater
macedonia.Last weeks incidents in which a swastica
was superimposed on the Greek
flag and on another portraying the Greek prime-minister in an ss uniform are not signs of bad
taste bad signs of extreme hostility towards the Greeks.

Dimitar
Was Kiro Grigorof a Greek agent as well? He admitted that the present inhabitants of your country are slavs that arrived in the area in the 6th century.I can go on and on with similar statements made by officials of your country.By the way you still haven't given an answer to my previous posting as to why all the discovered ancient macedonian
inscriptions are written in Greek.

"People in Greece are afraid that if a country under the name Macedonia is recognized, Greece would have to recognize the Macedonian minority at its own territory. If the country is recognized under a different name, then Greece will not have to recognize this minority. The problem is that the Greek people do not know, or nobody has told them, that the Macedonian minority in Greece was recognized by the European Human Rights Court 10 years ago, when it passed a judgement against Greece because it does not recognize the Macedonian minority," states the Greek Helsinki Committee chairman, Panayote Dimitras ( He of the Greek name ).

So you see, it's better for you if you recognize us, because the pressure cooker that is "greek consciousness" is one day going to explode"!

www.maknews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8021

After all the rhetoric we've heard here is the simple and plain truth. And doesn't it ring??????

Re: the historic debate, I've posted links by the University of Spain and by
OXFORD, and both concur that today's ethnic Macedonians are part of the old Mediterranean people; they have the HIGHEST E3b1 of any Europeans; slavs have a scarcity of E3b1... do the math!

So please, if you do not want to look like fools, cut the Tito, commie, fyrom bit. Do it out of self respect! Not wanting to believe something does not mean it ain't real! Was it Galileo that re-tracted his statement that the world wasn't flat but in fact round, under threat of the Inquisition? Smart move; he had already released the truth, and had no need to flatter his ego and hold on doggedly to his discovery at the cost of his life.

Of course there will always be those that maintain that the world is flat, no matter what!

www.maknews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7918&start=20

I would just like our posters not to put all Slavs in the same basket with Macedonians. No true Slav will fake the history. I like Macedonians but when something is not right then it is not right. Claiming Alexander the Great as a Slav is incredibly stupid and no one will ever believe in this.

Please Macedonians do not embarrass yourself, why don’t you stick to your history. And those genetical proves are a bit suspicious. I did not read the entire study but what is unclear how the test has been conducted and was the DNA sample taken directly from the remains of ancient Greeks or how. What my limited knowledge in genetic fields tells me is that if you want right results than you have to take the sample from the ancestors and compare the genetical characteristics of ancestors and their modern decedents. That is done by isolation and examination of so called haplotypes ( hyplotype= DNA cluster). This types tell us nearly everything. But, even this cannot be sure nowadays because of the national mixture. There are marriages between different nationalities and their kids are not any longer let’s say “pure national type”.

Isolation of hyplotypes have been used in different researches amongst the Blacks and specific illnesses such as sickle cell disease that affect certain Blacks ( the most affected are Jamaicans). Well, by using this technique we can learn a lot about the migration of the people and where they originate. This technique has been dine mostly amongst the Blacks in order to find out where the certain tribes originate since many Blacks have no idea where their tribes originate from due to slavery.

yes we just cant wait for DNA id cards then a lot of countrie will collaps especiallly in the region balkan much more clear image,how about that montenegrins share the same genetic material with spartans?? or palestinians have the same DNA with macedonians>>>etc.???joke of 1 april?? or think twice

When "Greeks" respond making fun of the European Court of Human Rights ruling, and also of genetic studies conducted by the UNiversity of Spain and OXFORD, it is a reflexive action of denial! It's also a sign of vanity! Belittle your opponent, and feel big...

Dimitar,

I never said that you Macedonians are embarrassment to the Slavs, but just that you embarrass yourself when claiming and assuming someone else’s history, in this case the history that belongs to Greeks. I can never say that any Slav is embarrassment to Slavs in general but as I understood it from the posts written by Macedonians you guys even deny your Slavic origin. Are you ashamed of your origin? Are you ashamed of who you are? We all know that Slavs came to Balkan in 4-5 Century. That is how I was thought at school.

Do you know that I pop up somewhere where some so called Serbian intellectuals and scientist claim Polls to be actually Serbs who converted in Catholicism. Imagine that stupidity. Imagine spreading that insanity amongst the Serbs and as we know there are always some people who may believe in this. Well, I don’t! As I don’t believe in Albanian insanity when it comes to Illyrians which is even proved to be insanity but Albanians still like to believe in this myth.

As I said you Slavic Macedonians are dear to me, but Greeks are dear to me as well. I think I am very objective on this matter.

Kos; I have made no claims about the African origins of Greeks, this is not the OXFORD study! Direct link,

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/
reprint/msi185v1.pdf

It's a pdf file, download it, spend a few hours and educate yourself, and stop making ASSUMPTIONS! I will make no further comments and await yours...

Leonidas, give it a rest! Gjorgievski's sole purpose when he was PM was to destroy Macedonia, and get as personally rich as he could in the process, which he did! He is well known for being a yes man for the Greek interests, selling them off many of the state's assets in under handed deals. He's now "Bulgarian" and continues to work against Macedonia's interests to this day! That he is still alive, shows how tolerant Macedonians are. Look at what the Serbs did to Djinjic!

And what is it about the Bulgarians? Daily radio broadcasts continually have to remind them of "who they are"! They claim there is no Macedonian minority in Bulgaria then deny OMO Ilinden/Pirin registration as a political party on the grounds that they cannot register "ethnic parties".

The conjecture surrounding the Ancient Macedonians' ethnicity is still open. The fact that today's Macedonians speak a slav language does not automatically cancel out that they are the descendents of the Anc. Macedonians, who may have been proto slavs themselves, maybe not. The Slav admixtures exist in all of the Balkan peoples today, including the Albanians, Greeks, Bulgars, Macedonians to varying degrees.

The fact that the ethnic Macedonians of today are of the older Mediterranean peoples, prove that they are not an exclusively Slav people, like the Ukraines, the Poles and the Russians for example. The mystery lies in the language of the Ancient Macedonians, and this will be slowly brought to light from research and excavations in the Rep. of Macedonia and beyond. And just because they were Hellenized doesn't make them necessarily "Greek". Just because our language is "slav" doesn't necessarily mean we are... eg. Lebanese claim Phonecian descent yet they speak an Arabic tongue. History is a living study, no discovery is set in stone. That human beings are political, selfish creatures is the single greatest impediment to learning from our history.

And answer me this, why do Greeks deny that they are mixed people themselves? Greek claims that the Macedonians have no right to the macedonian heritage overlooks the fact that today's Greeks are very tenuously linked to their "own heritage". A little less rhetoric, a little more realism.

I find it hilarious that the narco-mafia terrorist haven of Albania is now part of the NATO alliance.

Bin Laden's friends in Albania will be sent to fight Bin Laden's friends in Afghanistan. Wonder how that will turn out.

This issue is stupid. First of all ancient Macedonians weren't slavs. That we know for sure.
Second, Ancient Greek historians refer to ancient Macedonians as barbars, meaning not greek and foreign. Greek language doesn't prove much. The English language is used as an official language in many countries in the world doesn't mean all those countries are England's territories. People wrote in Greek because at that time Greece was the most advanced civilization. Later when the Romans became the most advanced civilization people wrote in latin. Just like a lot of places write in in English today. Just like the western culture influences a lot of countries today, so did Greek culture back then. Again it doesn't mean ancient Macedonia was Greek. It just means they were under the influence of Greek civilization, just like Greece is under the influence of western civilization today. Now if Greece did not have that influence as a civilization back then, then finding Greek manuscripts or even statues in Macedonia would really have meant something. Its as if a French claimed Greece 2000 years from now because they found the remains of a Renault, or Citroen in Greece. Or because a French Architectural studio did some buildings there which are similar to buildings in France.

In my opinion FYROM has no claim to the name. However in return for this Greece should recognize officially the FYROM-ian minority in Greece, and not veto their NATO entrance.
If this does not work then everything should be left as it is now.

P.S Greece is the only country in the world that officially claims 0% minorities. That is ridiculous.

i'm a SERB, pure blooded, let the Macos have their own state without FYR on it. Let them respect their roots and have their roots as a part of them. Let them LIVE!!! FREEDOM!!!

Don't you grekos worry so much about writing garbage to somehow justify your ways, we know you want to destabilize Macedonia and eliminate the Macedonians all together if you can..it won't happen and the only thing you succeed in with your racist politics is to give birth to hatred towards you that is beyond your belief, you have given such unity to Macedonians with your politics and I thank you for that.
Now that you have vetoed Macedonia's entrance to Nato there is no more need for talks on the name issue..which means a referendum will be held in Macedonia to bring back the flag and Macedonia needs only 10 more nations to recognize us by our constitutional name and we have 2/3 in U.N.,,will you veto there as well?? Kind of hard with USA, China and Russia have already recognized The Republic of Macedonia, all in good time..the truth works funny like that.

I have followed the name debate in the news and it is really sad that Macedonia was not invited because of it.

Joining NATO was about providing security and stability to the region. In that light, anyone can agree that even if Macedonia got to keep its name this time around, it would certainly not pose any real threat to Greece for a long time to come, despite any nationalist rhetoric.

If the name issue is such a big problem to Greece, then it could have insisted that Macedonia change its name as a condition for joining the EU. But in the mean time, allowing Macedonia to join along with the neighbouring Albania and Croatia as a trio, would have only been interpreted as Greek goodwill...certainly not weakness.

Hopefully, something will change very soon and Macedonia will be able to join.

With luck Serbia might join some day as well.... (I can see some of the Serbian folks here sneering at this, but interesting things can happen when erstwhile enemies are "forced" to depend on each other.)

Germany is opposing!! I found this interesting it did not take them long to decide on kosovo i wonder way!!

Rusila; so we Macedonians are now an embarassment to the slavs? LOL!!! At least it's an original thought! BTW, in Aleksandar's day there were neither "Greeks" nor "Slavs", but their were Macedonians! Majka- Mother, Dom-home,land!


Leonidas; Gligorov was a COMMUNIST politician, not a historian! And I'm not going to play your game, answer your questions, you avoid mine!

Macedonia has been pressured to beyond breaking point! It does not matter to us if we do not get the NATO invitation, due to "greece"- whether greece vetoes or not, we do not care!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All that counts for us is to keep our name! Nowhere is it written in the Interim Accord that a name change can be imposed on us!
Greece have committed themselves to being our NUMBER ONE ENEMY, let's see how kindly the Macedonians take to greece's demands, threats and blackmail from now on!!!

From the Roman Historian Livy;

"Such were the activities of the Romans and of Philip on land during that summer. At the beginning of the same summer, the fleet, commanded by the legate Lucius Apustius, left Corcyra, rounded Cape Melea, and joined King Attalus of Scyaellum, in the region of Hermoine. Hitherto the
resentment of the Athenian community against Philip had been kept in check by fear; but now, with the hope of assistance ready at hand, they gave free reign to their anger. There is never any lack at Athenian tongues ready and willing to stir up the passion of the common people; this kind of oratory is nurtured by the applause of the mob in all free communities; but this is especially true of Athens, where eloquence has the greatest influence. THe popular assembly immediately carried a proposal that all statues of Philip and all portraits of him, with their inscriptions, and also those of his ancestors of either sex, should be removed and destroyed; that all feast days, rites and priesthoods instituted in honour of Philip or his ancestors should be deprived of sanctity; that even the sites of any memorials or inscriptions in honour of Philip or his ancestors should be held accursed, and that it should not be lawful thereafter to decide to set up or dedicate on those sites any of those things which might lawfully be set up
or dedicated on an undefiled site; that whenever the priests of the people offered prayer on behalf of the Athenian people and their allies, their armies and navies, they should on every occasion HEAP CURSES and execrations on Philip, his family and his realm, his forces on land and on sea, AND THE WHOLE RACE AND NAME OF THE MACEDONIANS."

Not a lot's changed, huh?

When "Greeks" respond making fun of the European Court of Human Rights ruling, and also of genetic studies conducted by the UNiversity of Spain and OXFORD, it is a reflexive action of denial! It's also a sign of vanity! Belittle your opponent, and feel big...

Kos; I have made no claims about the African origins of Greeks, this is not the OXFORD study! Direct link,

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/
reprint/msi185v1.pdf

It's a pdf file, download it, spend a few hours and educate yourself, and stop making ASSUMPTIONS! I will make no further comments and await yours...

Leonidas, give it a rest! Gjorgievski's sole purpose when he was PM was to destroy Macedonia, and get as personally rich as he could in the process, which he did! He is well known for being a yes man for the Greek interests, selling them off many of the state's assets in under handed deals. He's now "Bulgarian" and continues to work against Macedonia's interests to this day! That he is still alive, shows how tolerant Macedonians are. Look at what the Serbs did to Djinjic!

And what is it about the Bulgarians? Daily radio broadcasts continually have to remind them of "who they are"! They claim there is no Macedonian minority in Bulgaria then deny OMO Ilinden/Pirin registration as a political party on the grounds that they cannot register "ethnic parties".

The conjecture surrounding the Ancient Macedonians' ethnicity is still open. The fact that today's Macedonians speak a slav language does not automatically cancel out that they are the descendents of the Anc. Macedonians, who may have been proto slavs themselves, maybe not. The Slav admixtures exist in all of the Balkan peoples today, including the Albanians, Greeks, Bulgars, Macedonians to varying degrees.

The fact that the ethnic Macedonians of today are of the older Mediterranean peoples, prove that they are not an exclusively Slav people, like the Ukraines, the Poles and the Russians for example. The mystery lies in the language of the Ancient Macedonians, and this will be slowly brought to light from research and excavations in the Rep. of Macedonia and beyond. And just because they were Hellenized doesn't make them necessarily "Greek". Just because our language is "slav" doesn't necessarily mean we are... eg. Lebanese claim Phonecian descent yet they speak an Arabic tongue. History is a living study, no discovery is set in stone. That human beings are political, selfish creatures is the single greatest impediment to learning from our history.

And answer me this, why do Greeks deny that they are mixed people themselves? Greek claims that the Macedonians have no right to the macedonian heritage overlooks the fact that today's Greeks are very tenuously linked to their "own heritage". A little less rhetoric, a little more realism.

"People in Greece are afraid that if a country under the name Macedonia is recognized, Greece would have to recognize the Macedonian minority at its own territory. If the country is recognized under a different name, then Greece will not have to recognize this minority. The problem is that the Greek people do not know, or nobody has told them, that the Macedonian minority in Greece was recognized by the European Human Rights Court 10 years ago, when it passed a judgement against Greece because it does not recognize the Macedonian minority," states the Greek Helsinki Committee chairman, Panayote Dimitras ( He of the Greek name ).

So you see, it's better for you if you recognize us, because the pressure cooker that is "greek consciousness" is one day going to explode"!

www.maknews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8021

After all the rhetoric we've heard here is the simple and plain truth. And doesn't it ring??????

Re: the historic debate, I've posted links by the University of Spain and by
OXFORD, and both concur that today's ethnic Macedonians are part of the old Mediterranean people; they have the HIGHEST E3b1 of any Europeans; slavs have a scarcity of E3b1... do the math!

So please, if you do not want to look like fools, cut the Tito, commie, fyrom bit. Do it out of self respect! Not wanting to believe something does not mean it ain't real! Was it Galileo that re-tracted his statement that the world wasn't flat but in fact round, under threat of the Inquisition? Smart move; he had already released the truth, and had no need to flatter his ego and hold on doggedly to his discovery at the cost of his life.

Of course there will always be those that maintain that the world is flat, no matter what!

www.maknews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7918&start=20

It IS about the AMBO as far as the US is concerned. It comes down to US interest in the region - nothing new there. But the falsehoods of history being portrayed by the Slavic population is rediculous. They entered the region in the 5th and 6th century, almost a millinium after Alexander existed. There are history books writen that are older then any Oxford "joke". One book that is writen and respected is the Bible. It refers to Alexander and the Grecians. All lands under Macedonia were assimulated with the Hellenic language - proof is on the writing of centuries old walls, building,statues..... This is something that Tito did - he has distorted history so that there can be apirations for the Hellenic region of Macedonia...it's that his trick is working.

Dear educated people,

Don't let a few million people lie about, steel, kidnap, trick you to believe, or distort a "history" that they have imagined to be true...there is no PROOF to what they spew.

Dimitar
I will refer you to the statement made by your former prime-minister Georgievski the other day to the Bulgarian news agency Focus.He defined as sheer stupidity Skopje's claims to ancient Macedonian history and also to your claim about classical macedonian language being the base of your mixed and match modern language.He explained that your biggest problem with your claims is the gap of 2000 years that exists between the ancient macedonians and skopjans and you've got not a shred of scientific proof of any links.He concluded by suggesting that there should be only a name for FYROM with geographical connotations.This is what the Greeks have been saying.

Rusila; so we Macedonians are now an embarassment to the slavs? LOL!!! At least it's an original thought! BTW, in Aleksandar's day there were neither "Greeks" nor "Slavs", but their were Macedonians! Majka- Mother, Dom-home,land!


Leonidas; Gligorov was a COMMUNIST politician, not a historian! And I'm not going to play your game, answer your questions, you avoid mine!

Macedonia has been pressured to beyond breaking point! It does not matter to us if we do not get the NATO invitation, due to "greece"- whether greece vetoes or not, we do not care!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All that counts for us is to keep our name! Nowhere is it written in the Interim Accord that a name change can be imposed on us!
Greece have committed themselves to being our NUMBER ONE ENEMY, let's see how kindly the Macedonians take to greece's demands, threats and blackmail from now on!!!

i'm a SERB, pure blooded, let the Macos have their own state without FYR on it. Let them respect their roots and have their roots as a part of them. Let them LIVE!!! FREEDOM!!!

Don't you grekos worry so much about writing garbage to somehow justify your ways, we know you want to destabilize Macedonia and eliminate the Macedonians all together if you can..it won't happen and the only thing you succeed in with your racist politics is to give birth to hatred towards you that is beyond your belief, you have given such unity to Macedonians with your politics and I thank you for that.
Now that you have vetoed Macedonia's entrance to Nato there is no more need for talks on the name issue..which means a referendum will be held in Macedonia to bring back the flag and Macedonia needs only 10 more nations to recognize us by our constitutional name and we have 2/3 in U.N.,,will you veto there as well?? Kind of hard with USA, China and Russia have already recognized The Republic of Macedonia, all in good time..the truth works funny like that.

I have followed the name debate in the news and it is really sad that Macedonia was not invited because of it.

Joining NATO was about providing security and stability to the region. In that light, anyone can agree that even if Macedonia got to keep its name this time around, it would certainly not pose any real threat to Greece for a long time to come, despite any nationalist rhetoric.

If the name issue is such a big problem to Greece, then it could have insisted that Macedonia change its name as a condition for joining the EU. But in the mean time, allowing Macedonia to join along with the neighbouring Albania and Croatia as a trio, would have only been interpreted as Greek goodwill...certainly not weakness.

Hopefully, something will change very soon and Macedonia will be able to join.

With luck Serbia might join some day as well.... (I can see some of the Serbian folks here sneering at this, but interesting things can happen when erstwhile enemies are "forced" to depend on each other.)

This is all about the AMBO pipeline and its builder and operator the US-registered Albanian Macedonian Bulgarian Oil Corporation.

The AMBO pipeline 1.1 billion dollar will pump Caspian oil from the Bulgarian port of Burgas via Macedonia to the Albanian port of Vlora, for transport to European countries and the United States.

It is seldom the behavior that is important, but the reason for the behavior.

Now that I learned so much about genetic makeup of Balkan people, I started wandering why the brave mediteranian-helenic Skoplje people accepted to be a part of Tito-Yuga without objections? Was it because he invented them as a nation and invented their language as well? Genius as he was, did he know more about genetics before the science did?

Regarding the post by Dimitar:
my friend I dont know if you are aware but the proffesor that did the genetic studies that you mention was fired with no compensation (another greek conspiracy I guess??). These results which claimed Greeks are newcomers in the region(!) and have a high concentration of African DNA were ridiculed by all other scientists (except Skopians) and were never (before or after) reached again. On the contrary almost all studies conducted express how impresive is the DNA resemplance of ancient and modern Greeks and that include macedonians too (the real ones not slav-macedonians). Links available if you wish. BTW although these reports were falsiefied whats wrong with "high concentration of African DNA?" someone could accuse you of racism.

I would just like our posters not to put all Slavs in the same basket with Macedonians. No true Slav will fake the history. I like Macedonians but when something is not right then it is not right. Claiming Alexander the Great as a Slav is incredibly stupid and no one will ever believe in this.

Please Macedonians do not embarrass yourself, why don’t you stick to your history. And those genetical proves are a bit suspicious. I did not read the entire study but what is unclear how the test has been conducted and was the DNA sample taken directly from the remains of ancient Greeks or how. What my limited knowledge in genetic fields tells me is that if you want right results than you have to take the sample from the ancestors and compare the genetical characteristics of ancestors and their modern decedents. That is done by isolation and examination of so called haplotypes ( hyplotype= DNA cluster). This types tell us nearly everything. But, even this cannot be sure nowadays because of the national mixture. There are marriages between different nationalities and their kids are not any longer let’s say “pure national type”.

Isolation of hyplotypes have been used in different researches amongst the Blacks and specific illnesses such as sickle cell disease that affect certain Blacks ( the most affected are Jamaicans). Well, by using this technique we can learn a lot about the migration of the people and where they originate. This technique has been dine mostly amongst the Blacks in order to find out where the certain tribes originate since many Blacks have no idea where their tribes originate from due to slavery.

I would just like our posters not to put all Slavs in the same basket with Macedonians. No true Slav will fake the history. I like Macedonians but when something is not right then it is not right. Claiming Alexander the Great as a Slav is incredibly stupid and no one will ever believe in this.

Please Macedonians do not embarrass yourself, why don’t you stick to your history.
bmrusila

I couldn't have said all this better myself.I thank you for your posting that puts some sanity into the debate.The main issue here is not the name but the actions and beliefs of F.Y.R
Macedonia.Since 1991 they have bombarded the Greeks with textbooks,speeches,maps and national documents that show Macedonia in Greece as an occupied territory.Lately
we see images of their prime-
minister laying a wreath by a
flag showing a map of greater
macedonia.Last weeks incidents in which a swastica
was superimposed on the Greek
flag and on another portraying the Greek prime-minister in an ss uniform are not signs of bad
taste bad signs of extreme hostility towards the Greeks.

Dimitar
Was Kiro Grigorof a Greek agent as well? He admitted that the present inhabitants of your country are slavs that arrived in the area in the 6th century.I can go on and on with similar statements made by officials of your country.By the way you still haven't given an answer to my previous posting as to why all the discovered ancient macedonian
inscriptions are written in Greek.

yes we just cant wait for DNA id cards then a lot of countrie will collaps especiallly in the region balkan much more clear image,how about that montenegrins share the same genetic material with spartans?? or palestinians have the same DNA with macedonians>>>etc.???joke of 1 april?? or think twice

This issue is stupid. First of all ancient Macedonians weren't slavs. That we know for sure.
Second, Ancient Greek historians refer to ancient Macedonians as barbars, meaning not greek and foreign. Greek language doesn't prove much. The English language is used as an official language in many countries in the world doesn't mean all those countries are England's territories. People wrote in Greek because at that time Greece was the most advanced civilization. Later when the Romans became the most advanced civilization people wrote in latin. Just like a lot of places write in in English today. Just like the western culture influences a lot of countries today, so did Greek culture back then. Again it doesn't mean ancient Macedonia was Greek. It just means they were under the influence of Greek civilization, just like Greece is under the influence of western civilization today. Now if Greece did not have that influence as a civilization back then, then finding Greek manuscripts or even statues in Macedonia would really have meant something. Its as if a French claimed Greece 2000 years from now because they found the remains of a Renault, or Citroen in Greece. Or because a French Architectural studio did some buildings there which are similar to buildings in France.

In my opinion FYROM has no claim to the name. However in return for this Greece should recognize officially the FYROM-ian minority in Greece, and not veto their NATO entrance.
If this does not work then everything should be left as it is now.

P.S Greece is the only country in the world that officially claims 0% minorities. That is ridiculous.

Germany is opposing!! I found this interesting it did not take them long to decide on kosovo i wonder way!!

I find it hilarious that the narco-mafia terrorist haven of Albania is now part of the NATO alliance.

Bin Laden's friends in Albania will be sent to fight Bin Laden's friends in Afghanistan. Wonder how that will turn out.

From the Roman Historian Livy;

"Such were the activities of the Romans and of Philip on land during that summer. At the beginning of the same summer, the fleet, commanded by the legate Lucius Apustius, left Corcyra, rounded Cape Melea, and joined King Attalus of Scyaellum, in the region of Hermoine. Hitherto the
resentment of the Athenian community against Philip had been kept in check by fear; but now, with the hope of assistance ready at hand, they gave free reign to their anger. There is never any lack at Athenian tongues ready and willing to stir up the passion of the common people; this kind of oratory is nurtured by the applause of the mob in all free communities; but this is especially true of Athens, where eloquence has the greatest influence. THe popular assembly immediately carried a proposal that all statues of Philip and all portraits of him, with their inscriptions, and also those of his ancestors of either sex, should be removed and destroyed; that all feast days, rites and priesthoods instituted in honour of Philip or his ancestors should be deprived of sanctity; that even the sites of any memorials or inscriptions in honour of Philip or his ancestors should be held accursed, and that it should not be lawful thereafter to decide to set up or dedicate on those sites any of those things which might lawfully be set up
or dedicated on an undefiled site; that whenever the priests of the people offered prayer on behalf of the Athenian people and their allies, their armies and navies, they should on every occasion HEAP CURSES and execrations on Philip, his family and his realm, his forces on land and on sea, AND THE WHOLE RACE AND NAME OF THE MACEDONIANS."

Not a lot's changed, huh?

Dimitar,

I never said that you Macedonians are embarrassment to the Slavs, but just that you embarrass yourself when claiming and assuming someone else’s history, in this case the history that belongs to Greeks. I can never say that any Slav is embarrassment to Slavs in general but as I understood it from the posts written by Macedonians you guys even deny your Slavic origin. Are you ashamed of your origin? Are you ashamed of who you are? We all know that Slavs came to Balkan in 4-5 Century. That is how I was thought at school.

Do you know that I pop up somewhere where some so called Serbian intellectuals and scientist claim Polls to be actually Serbs who converted in Catholicism. Imagine that stupidity. Imagine spreading that insanity amongst the Serbs and as we know there are always some people who may believe in this. Well, I don’t! As I don’t believe in Albanian insanity when it comes to Illyrians which is even proved to be insanity but Albanians still like to believe in this myth.

As I said you Slavic Macedonians are dear to me, but Greeks are dear to me as well. I think I am very objective on this matter.