True Dimitar,
none of the above is for a Greek. You have your own identity, history, language and name.
Now, could you be so kind and let us know that real name or you will keep claiming you are Greeks?
What history and identity are we talking about? Here we have a slav people who are totaly confused about the identity. Even though the slavs came to the balkans 1000 years after Alexander the greats death the belive they are the heritage of the ancient macedons. Totaly unlogical
britannica encyclopedia
The people
Ethnicity and language Macedonia has inherited a complex ethnic structure. The largest group, calling themselves Macedonians (about two-thirds of the population), are descendants of Slavic tribes that moved into the region between the 6th and 8th centuries AD. Their language is very closely related to Bulgarian and is written in the Cyrillic script.
There is nothing atypical here for the process of the creation of any modern nation, except when falsification from the type of substitution of the word "Bulgarian" with the word "Macedonian" were made. In a case which that was not possible, the persons from history were proclaimed for Bulgarian agents who crossed into some imaginary pure "Macedonian" space.
Denko Maleski, Minister of foreign affairs of the FYROM from 1991 to 1993 and ambassador
We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians."
[FYROM'S President Mr. Kiro Gligorov, Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35.]
Eugene Borza, Historian, Professor, and Archeologist, whom the American Philological Association refers to as the "Macedonian specialist" wrote:
Modern Slavs, both Bulgarians and Macedonians, CANNOT establish a link with antiquity, as the Slavs entered the Balkans centuries after the demise of the ancient Macedonian kingdom. Only the most radical Slavic factions—mostly émi-grés in the United States, Canada, and Australia—even attempt to establish a connection to antiquity.
The first official Macedonian grammar was developed by Krume Kepeski. One of the most important contributors in the standardisation of the Macedonian literary language was Blaže Koneski. The first document written in the literary standard Macedonian language is the first issue of the Nova Makedonia newspaper in 1944.
We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian."
"There is some confusion about the identity of the people of this country."
[FYROM's Ambassador to Canada, Gyordan Veselinov in an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, 24 February 1999]
The speech of Alexander I, when he was admitted to the Olympic games
Men of Athens...
Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Hellas I should not have come to tell you;
but I am myself a Hellene by descent, and I would not willingly see Hellas exchange freedom for slavery.
I am Alexander of Macedon. "
(Herod. IX, 45, 2 [Loeb])
Dimitar
One has to look at your postings you made at different dates and conclude that these comments are made by an individual with a twisted mind.
When the Albanian minority left Gruevski's goverment you
implied that the Greeks were behind their decision and not their demands for the implementation of the Ohrid agreement.Now again you imply that the death threats to certain individuals in your country are the result of Greek psychological pressure and not the result of rampant nationalism orchestrated by the likes of
Gruevski & milososki.The claim of irredentism is justified on the grounds that
both yourself and other posters make claims about Slav Macedonians oppressed in Greece.This is an outright lie and the proof is that the political party
"Rainbow" ,that was created to represent the slav macedonians managed to pull just over 2000 votes in the last European and National elections.Not much of a minority in a population of over 3 million in Macedonia Greece.
Another fallacy is your belief that the Greeks support the Albanian minority
in your country and are aiming to its partition.Again
the Greeks have always been supporting existing borders and good neighbouring relations.Only good neighbouring relations will lead to stability and prosperity in the Balkans.
*1 avi
Because Makedonia is just one of the Greek provinces, and not a country by itself ;)
Besides we dont claim Alexander is Greek. The whole world is claiming that, we are just proud of it :)
*2 Dimitar
As for the split. You are mistaken. We actually DO NOT want you to be split, but as i have posted in another thread, you should be aware of those that want you to split and that's not us.
As for the politicians talks. I absolutely agree with you on your conlusion on them.
About that "you have no identity". Absolutely not. You have misunderstood probably what me or someone else was saying. You DO have an identity, but thats not what you claim it is. Big difference.
Now, how about a small experiment? Instead of the word "Greeks" in the following paragraph, put the word "fyromians":
"a compromise on the name, it's a human reflex to escape. But if it's one thing we have learnt from our esteemed friends, the Greeks, it's that compromises lead to more compromises!"
and you will understand our view of "fyrom irredentism".
And one last thing. The correct way to say it is:
"Beware of the Danaans bearing gifts"
Just for the record :)
Now to the issue.
You mean you justify those threats on those people? You know, some time ago the same thing happened to turkey. I hope you dont see your country in the same level as turkey. It would be a shame.
Of course we cant know if those threats are for real or fake or even made up, but if they exist, they dont help your struggle or do you any good, saying it even if your struggle is against mine :)
It's only natural that when every utterance of Greek "leaders", is a profound insult to the very integrity of your existence, that the Macedonian people slowly but surely become radicalized!
In the same way, lay people copy their leaders' statements ad infinitum, witness the amount of times on this forum alone have we heard of "fyrom irredentism, intransigence" and the latest; "..you have no identity!" All in self-righteous indignation.
Political leaders know that repetition achieves results, they also know that few people are able to think for themselves, question the so-called accepted wisdom let alone make their own assessments on anything! In short, the very thoughts people think are controlled by others, the very thoughts they have are not even their own but given to them by others.
We also know that a tactic of Greece is to divide the Macedonian people. All the pressure on us is bound to create a split, right?
Frankly, Macedonians cannot be blamed for voicing their opinion re: a compromise on the name, it's a human reflex to escape. But if it's one thing we have learnt from our esteemed friends, the Greeks, it's that compromises lead to more compromises! You know, "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts..etc."
Dimitar
One has to look at your postings you made at different dates and conclude that these comments are made by an individual with a twisted mind.
When the Albanian minority left Gruevski's goverment you
implied that the Greeks were behind their decision and not their demands for the implementation of the Ohrid agreement.Now again you imply that the death threats to certain individuals in your country are the result of Greek psychological pressure and not the result of rampant nationalism orchestrated by the likes of
Gruevski & milososki.The claim of irredentism is justified on the grounds that
both yourself and other posters make claims about Slav Macedonians oppressed in Greece.This is an outright lie and the proof is that the political party
"Rainbow" ,that was created to represent the slav macedonians managed to pull just over 2000 votes in the last European and National elections.Not much of a minority in a population of over 3 million in Macedonia Greece.
Another fallacy is your belief that the Greeks support the Albanian minority
in your country and are aiming to its partition.Again
the Greeks have always been supporting existing borders and good neighbouring relations.Only good neighbouring relations will lead to stability and prosperity in the Balkans.
It's only natural that when every utterance of Greek "leaders", is a profound insult to the very integrity of your existence, that the Macedonian people slowly but surely become radicalized!
In the same way, lay people copy their leaders' statements ad infinitum, witness the amount of times on this forum alone have we heard of "fyrom irredentism, intransigence" and the latest; "..you have no identity!" All in self-righteous indignation.
Political leaders know that repetition achieves results, they also know that few people are able to think for themselves, question the so-called accepted wisdom let alone make their own assessments on anything! In short, the very thoughts people think are controlled by others, the very thoughts they have are not even their own but given to them by others.
We also know that a tactic of Greece is to divide the Macedonian people. All the pressure on us is bound to create a split, right?
Frankly, Macedonians cannot be blamed for voicing their opinion re: a compromise on the name, it's a human reflex to escape. But if it's one thing we have learnt from our esteemed friends, the Greeks, it's that compromises lead to more compromises! You know, "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts..etc."
*1 avi
Because Makedonia is just one of the Greek provinces, and not a country by itself ;)
Besides we dont claim Alexander is Greek. The whole world is claiming that, we are just proud of it :)
*2 Dimitar
As for the split. You are mistaken. We actually DO NOT want you to be split, but as i have posted in another thread, you should be aware of those that want you to split and that's not us.
As for the politicians talks. I absolutely agree with you on your conlusion on them.
About that "you have no identity". Absolutely not. You have misunderstood probably what me or someone else was saying. You DO have an identity, but thats not what you claim it is. Big difference.
Now, how about a small experiment? Instead of the word "Greeks" in the following paragraph, put the word "fyromians":
"a compromise on the name, it's a human reflex to escape. But if it's one thing we have learnt from our esteemed friends, the Greeks, it's that compromises lead to more compromises!"
and you will understand our view of "fyrom irredentism".
And one last thing. The correct way to say it is:
"Beware of the Danaans bearing gifts"
Just for the record :)
Now to the issue.
You mean you justify those threats on those people? You know, some time ago the same thing happened to turkey. I hope you dont see your country in the same level as turkey. It would be a shame.
Of course we cant know if those threats are for real or fake or even made up, but if they exist, they dont help your struggle or do you any good, saying it even if your struggle is against mine :)
What history and identity are we talking about? Here we have a slav people who are totaly confused about the identity. Even though the slavs came to the balkans 1000 years after Alexander the greats death the belive they are the heritage of the ancient macedons. Totaly unlogical
britannica encyclopedia
The people
Ethnicity and language Macedonia has inherited a complex ethnic structure. The largest group, calling themselves Macedonians (about two-thirds of the population), are descendants of Slavic tribes that moved into the region between the 6th and 8th centuries AD. Their language is very closely related to Bulgarian and is written in the Cyrillic script.
There is nothing atypical here for the process of the creation of any modern nation, except when falsification from the type of substitution of the word "Bulgarian" with the word "Macedonian" were made. In a case which that was not possible, the persons from history were proclaimed for Bulgarian agents who crossed into some imaginary pure "Macedonian" space.
Denko Maleski, Minister of foreign affairs of the FYROM from 1991 to 1993 and ambassador
We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians."
[FYROM'S President Mr. Kiro Gligorov, Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35.]
Eugene Borza, Historian, Professor, and Archeologist, whom the American Philological Association refers to as the "Macedonian specialist" wrote:
Modern Slavs, both Bulgarians and Macedonians, CANNOT establish a link with antiquity, as the Slavs entered the Balkans centuries after the demise of the ancient Macedonian kingdom. Only the most radical Slavic factions—mostly émi-grés in the United States, Canada, and Australia—even attempt to establish a connection to antiquity.
The first official Macedonian grammar was developed by Krume Kepeski. One of the most important contributors in the standardisation of the Macedonian literary language was Blaže Koneski. The first document written in the literary standard Macedonian language is the first issue of the Nova Makedonia newspaper in 1944.
We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian."
"There is some confusion about the identity of the people of this country."
[FYROM's Ambassador to Canada, Gyordan Veselinov in an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, 24 February 1999]
The speech of Alexander I, when he was admitted to the Olympic games
Men of Athens...
Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Hellas I should not have come to tell you;
but I am myself a Hellene by descent, and I would not willingly see Hellas exchange freedom for slavery.
I am Alexander of Macedon. "
(Herod. IX, 45, 2 [Loeb])
True Dimitar,
none of the above is for a Greek. You have your own identity, history, language and name.
Now, could you be so kind and let us know that real name or you will keep claiming you are Greeks?
It's only natural that when every utterance of Greek "leaders", is a profound insult to the very integrity of your existence, that the Macedonian people slowly but surely become radicalized!
In the same way, lay people copy their leaders' statements ad infinitum, witness the amount of times on this forum alone have we heard of "fyrom irredentism, intransigence" and the latest; "..you have no identity!" All in self-righteous indignation.
Political leaders know that repetition achieves results, they also know that few people are able to think for themselves, question the so-called accepted wisdom let alone make their own assessments on anything! In short, the very thoughts people think are controlled by others, the very thoughts they have are not even their own but given to them by others.
We also know that a tactic of Greece is to divide the Macedonian people. All the pressure on us is bound to create a split, right?
Frankly, Macedonians cannot be blamed for voicing their opinion re: a compromise on the name, it's a human reflex to escape. But if it's one thing we have learnt from our esteemed friends, the Greeks, it's that compromises lead to more compromises! You know, "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts..etc."
What history and identity are we talking about? Here we have a slav people who are totaly confused about the identity. Even though the slavs came to the balkans 1000 years after Alexander the greats death the belive they are the heritage of the ancient macedons. Totaly unlogical
britannica encyclopedia
The people
Ethnicity and language Macedonia has inherited a complex ethnic structure. The largest group, calling themselves Macedonians (about two-thirds of the population), are descendants of Slavic tribes that moved into the region between the 6th and 8th centuries AD. Their language is very closely related to Bulgarian and is written in the Cyrillic script.
There is nothing atypical here for the process of the creation of any modern nation, except when falsification from the type of substitution of the word "Bulgarian" with the word "Macedonian" were made. In a case which that was not possible, the persons from history were proclaimed for Bulgarian agents who crossed into some imaginary pure "Macedonian" space.
Denko Maleski, Minister of foreign affairs of the FYROM from 1991 to 1993 and ambassador
We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians."
[FYROM'S President Mr. Kiro Gligorov, Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35.]
Eugene Borza, Historian, Professor, and Archeologist, whom the American Philological Association refers to as the "Macedonian specialist" wrote:
Modern Slavs, both Bulgarians and Macedonians, CANNOT establish a link with antiquity, as the Slavs entered the Balkans centuries after the demise of the ancient Macedonian kingdom. Only the most radical Slavic factions—mostly émi-grés in the United States, Canada, and Australia—even attempt to establish a connection to antiquity.
The first official Macedonian grammar was developed by Krume Kepeski. One of the most important contributors in the standardisation of the Macedonian literary language was Blaže Koneski. The first document written in the literary standard Macedonian language is the first issue of the Nova Makedonia newspaper in 1944.
We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian."
"There is some confusion about the identity of the people of this country."
[FYROM's Ambassador to Canada, Gyordan Veselinov in an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, 24 February 1999]
The speech of Alexander I, when he was admitted to the Olympic games
Men of Athens...
Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Hellas I should not have come to tell you;
but I am myself a Hellene by descent, and I would not willingly see Hellas exchange freedom for slavery.
I am Alexander of Macedon. "
(Herod. IX, 45, 2 [Loeb])
*1 avi
Because Makedonia is just one of the Greek provinces, and not a country by itself ;)
Besides we dont claim Alexander is Greek. The whole world is claiming that, we are just proud of it :)
*2 Dimitar
As for the split. You are mistaken. We actually DO NOT want you to be split, but as i have posted in another thread, you should be aware of those that want you to split and that's not us.
As for the politicians talks. I absolutely agree with you on your conlusion on them.
About that "you have no identity". Absolutely not. You have misunderstood probably what me or someone else was saying. You DO have an identity, but thats not what you claim it is. Big difference.
Now, how about a small experiment? Instead of the word "Greeks" in the following paragraph, put the word "fyromians":
"a compromise on the name, it's a human reflex to escape. But if it's one thing we have learnt from our esteemed friends, the Greeks, it's that compromises lead to more compromises!"
and you will understand our view of "fyrom irredentism".
And one last thing. The correct way to say it is:
"Beware of the Danaans bearing gifts"
Just for the record :)
Now to the issue.
You mean you justify those threats on those people? You know, some time ago the same thing happened to turkey. I hope you dont see your country in the same level as turkey. It would be a shame.
Of course we cant know if those threats are for real or fake or even made up, but if they exist, they dont help your struggle or do you any good, saying it even if your struggle is against mine :)
Dimitar
One has to look at your postings you made at different dates and conclude that these comments are made by an individual with a twisted mind.
When the Albanian minority left Gruevski's goverment you
implied that the Greeks were behind their decision and not their demands for the implementation of the Ohrid agreement.Now again you imply that the death threats to certain individuals in your country are the result of Greek psychological pressure and not the result of rampant nationalism orchestrated by the likes of
Gruevski & milososki.The claim of irredentism is justified on the grounds that
both yourself and other posters make claims about Slav Macedonians oppressed in Greece.This is an outright lie and the proof is that the political party
"Rainbow" ,that was created to represent the slav macedonians managed to pull just over 2000 votes in the last European and National elections.Not much of a minority in a population of over 3 million in Macedonia Greece.
Another fallacy is your belief that the Greeks support the Albanian minority
in your country and are aiming to its partition.Again
the Greeks have always been supporting existing borders and good neighbouring relations.Only good neighbouring relations will lead to stability and prosperity in the Balkans.
True Dimitar,
none of the above is for a Greek. You have your own identity, history, language and name.
Now, could you be so kind and let us know that real name or you will keep claiming you are Greeks?
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