Still no consensus in Macedonian name crisis

To Dimitar
We are not waiting for the albanians to do us any favour.It is Milososki that
sends signals to US that unless FYROM is invited to NATO summit there would be a clear danger to his country.Danger from whom?The
US are telling the world that
kosovo is a unique case.OR is it not?

*5 Dan asta
Greeks and Hellenes reffer to the same ethnos, or genos as we preffer to call it.
Crash course in history:
Graikoi: A tribe name after Graikos, nephew of Hellen (Hellenes, remember?), residing in the middle of today's Greece, in Voiotia in reeeeeeaaallllyyyy old times. Members of this tribe traveled to Italy (Lattio, later called Lazio, suburb of Rome) and established a community there. The latins (early italians) met the Graikoi, called them grecos and from this latin root the name Greek and Greece derived.
A tribe in the middle of Greece not speaking Greek, sound a bit strange to me. Hellas and Greece are both used internationaly also. Maybe you have only heard one of the 2, but they are both used.

Dimitar,
do you happen to know why the archibishop met bush? I cant see your link, doesnt work, but i am really interested in what is written in there.
How many nations do you know that the american presidents invite them in the white house on their national day of indipendance? I know one, Greece. If you do know more, let me know.
How may nations do oyu know that have the lisence to send arm troops to parade in the strets of an american city to celebrate their national indipendance day? I know one, Greece. If you do know more, let me know.
How may nations do you know that have the right in the usa, to raise their country's flag? I know one, Greece. If you do know more, let me know.

So why was the priest with bush?
Because they were celebrating Greek indipendance day. And he was expressing the feelings of his perish, not of the church. If he wasnt a priest and he was a teacher, then you would say that all academia is supporting the Greek cause?

I am telling you again. Church is not a decisive factor in Greek politics. Need an example? Some years ago, we were to change our id's to new ones, that would not have the religion printed on it. The Church then started gathering signatures from people, to push for a referendum. They gathered almost 3 mil signatures out of 9 mil population. The state didnt even bother examining the request.
That is how big role the church is playing here.

*2 Bobby
We dont want to wipe out any Makedonians. We love our Greek brothers. Now if you are reffering to our northern neighbours, no, we dont want to wipe them out. We like them although they are misguided :)

Hey Dimitar, You have a Greek name, after the goddess of the Harvest, the huntress, Dimitir!

But actually, the funny thing is, it's not really a Greek name. It's a Hellenic one. The world knows the Hellenes by the name "Greek" only because of a small tribe in the Balkans who did not speak Ellinika. So, the country goes by one name internationally, Greece, it's people known as Greeks internationally, while internally they refer to the country as Hellas/Ellada and their nationality as Hellenic. Their language is Ellinika.

I suggest you don't get so hung up on naming. The Greeks haven't. Be confident in your identity.

Whilst discussing the proposal at home the Greek side proclaimed they would not accept any proposal that accepted Macedonian Ethnicity...
In other words they want to wipe out Macedonians.. Thats what this is all about.. "Greek Democracy"

I'm sure Dora has that veto in her handbag... and then, whammo, the big, bad Albanians will take care of fyrom once and for all! OK, guys don't forget to pray tonight, or better still, forget prayers, and simply go to the Emporer, just like Archbishop
Demetrios...
(Dimitar, 27 March 2008 14:49)

Its immoral on your behalf to twist things to your thinking.I was replying to your posting above.Unlike yourself I've always been in favour of the existing borders in the balkans and i would hate to see the Albanians causing any problems to your country.Do I
make myself clear?

Archbishop Demetrios asks Bush's backing, http://www.ana-mpa.gr/anaweb/user/showplain?maindoc=6277636&maindocimg=6276178&service=102

Behold the Theocracy of Greece! Are things a little desperate for the Greeks? Probably not, it must be a smart tactic. Just in case, I'm sure Dora has that veto in her handbag... and then, whammo, the big, bad Albanians will take care of fyrom once and for all! OK, guys don't forget to pray tonight, or better still, forget prayers, and simply go to the Emporer, just like Archbishop
Demetrios...

Leonidas, you seem to have a rather confused moral compass! So, it's wrong for Albanians to split Serbia, but right for them to split Macedonia?

Nikitas; I could care less!!! The fact remains that you are denying MY BEINGNESS wherever and whenever you can!
Re: Demetrios, he should be taking care of his peoples SPIRITUAL welfare, and not catering to people' nationalistic fantasies at the expense of others'. Demetrios, if he was a true leader, would be educating his followers that true freedom is found within the heart! It means LOVING THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF!!!

Dime, the crisis the Greeks are experiencing is actually to do with their own "identity", and not that of Macedonians!

@ Nikitas; do you remember back in physics class, when they taught that there is no such thing as an ABSOLUTE!
There is no black or white, only a trillion shades of grey! So when you post dogmatic absolutes about OUR HISTORY, making all kinds of ASSUMPTIONS that are basically of the "a million drunks can't be wrong" variety, you end up with very little credibility at all!

The disturbing thing now however, is that it's coming out that the issue is not about the name at all, but about the Macedonian ethnicity, language, etc. etc. Greece is now, through it's vehement hatred of ethnic Macedonians radicalizing the Macedonians so that this peaceful nation/people is beginning to feel hatred toward all and everything "Greek". Now why is this?

And finally; DON'T PATRONISE US, with your "We actually like you but..."
pillow talk! In the next breath you say, "...but you don't exist"! True friends do not put conditions on friendship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are no friend of ours but a bully that overestimates it's own importance and power!

*11 Kalja
We dont experience any kind of crisis, sorry/

Dimitar my friend.
I will still call you my friend because i cant see you as an enemy.
*8
I never denied your existence. You are not invisible. You are a neighbour and you are there. I never said you dont exist.
And as i have said many times before, Church and its actions are not something that concerns me, but in any case, they still do have their own opinion and every right to express it and neither you nor me can stop them from doing it.
*9
I really am trying to find the "absolute assumption" that you are talking about in my post. Please help me here.
As for your ethnicity. There isnt any such thing as an ethnicity deriving from the place they migrated and not from their origin. So when we are talking about Makedonians, we are tlaking about Greeks. When we are talking about fyromians, we are talking about slavs (with no intention to use the word in an offensive way). Of course there isnt any such thing as a "makedonian" ethnicity, other than Greek. So I dont see any Makedonian hating Greeks, since I myself dont hate myself :)

I'm not sure if the link wasn't deleted in part in my last post


Archbishop Demetrios asks Bush's backing, http://www.ana-mpa.gr/anaweb/user/showplain?maindoc=6277636&maindocimg=
6276178&service=102

Apologies Leonidas, I thought you were implying that MKD was next on Albanians' list, and that that was OK!

Whilst discussing the proposal at home the Greek side proclaimed they would not accept any proposal that accepted Macedonian Ethnicity...
In other words they want to wipe out Macedonians.. Thats what this is all about.. "Greek Democracy"

To Dimitar
We are not waiting for the albanians to do us any favour.It is Milososki that
sends signals to US that unless FYROM is invited to NATO summit there would be a clear danger to his country.Danger from whom?The
US are telling the world that
kosovo is a unique case.OR is it not?

Archbishop Demetrios asks Bush's backing, http://www.ana-mpa.gr/anaweb/user/showplain?maindoc=6277636&maindocimg=6276178&service=102

Behold the Theocracy of Greece! Are things a little desperate for the Greeks? Probably not, it must be a smart tactic. Just in case, I'm sure Dora has that veto in her handbag... and then, whammo, the big, bad Albanians will take care of fyrom once and for all! OK, guys don't forget to pray tonight, or better still, forget prayers, and simply go to the Emporer, just like Archbishop
Demetrios...

I'm not sure if the link wasn't deleted in part in my last post


Archbishop Demetrios asks Bush's backing, http://www.ana-mpa.gr/anaweb/user/showplain?maindoc=6277636&maindocimg=
6276178&service=102

Hey Dimitar, You have a Greek name, after the goddess of the Harvest, the huntress, Dimitir!

But actually, the funny thing is, it's not really a Greek name. It's a Hellenic one. The world knows the Hellenes by the name "Greek" only because of a small tribe in the Balkans who did not speak Ellinika. So, the country goes by one name internationally, Greece, it's people known as Greeks internationally, while internally they refer to the country as Hellas/Ellada and their nationality as Hellenic. Their language is Ellinika.

I suggest you don't get so hung up on naming. The Greeks haven't. Be confident in your identity.

*11 Kalja
We dont experience any kind of crisis, sorry/

Dimitar my friend.
I will still call you my friend because i cant see you as an enemy.
*8
I never denied your existence. You are not invisible. You are a neighbour and you are there. I never said you dont exist.
And as i have said many times before, Church and its actions are not something that concerns me, but in any case, they still do have their own opinion and every right to express it and neither you nor me can stop them from doing it.
*9
I really am trying to find the "absolute assumption" that you are talking about in my post. Please help me here.
As for your ethnicity. There isnt any such thing as an ethnicity deriving from the place they migrated and not from their origin. So when we are talking about Makedonians, we are tlaking about Greeks. When we are talking about fyromians, we are talking about slavs (with no intention to use the word in an offensive way). Of course there isnt any such thing as a "makedonian" ethnicity, other than Greek. So I dont see any Makedonian hating Greeks, since I myself dont hate myself :)

*5 Dan asta
Greeks and Hellenes reffer to the same ethnos, or genos as we preffer to call it.
Crash course in history:
Graikoi: A tribe name after Graikos, nephew of Hellen (Hellenes, remember?), residing in the middle of today's Greece, in Voiotia in reeeeeeaaallllyyyy old times. Members of this tribe traveled to Italy (Lattio, later called Lazio, suburb of Rome) and established a community there. The latins (early italians) met the Graikoi, called them grecos and from this latin root the name Greek and Greece derived.
A tribe in the middle of Greece not speaking Greek, sound a bit strange to me. Hellas and Greece are both used internationaly also. Maybe you have only heard one of the 2, but they are both used.

Dimitar,
do you happen to know why the archibishop met bush? I cant see your link, doesnt work, but i am really interested in what is written in there.
How many nations do you know that the american presidents invite them in the white house on their national day of indipendance? I know one, Greece. If you do know more, let me know.
How may nations do oyu know that have the lisence to send arm troops to parade in the strets of an american city to celebrate their national indipendance day? I know one, Greece. If you do know more, let me know.
How may nations do you know that have the right in the usa, to raise their country's flag? I know one, Greece. If you do know more, let me know.

So why was the priest with bush?
Because they were celebrating Greek indipendance day. And he was expressing the feelings of his perish, not of the church. If he wasnt a priest and he was a teacher, then you would say that all academia is supporting the Greek cause?

I am telling you again. Church is not a decisive factor in Greek politics. Need an example? Some years ago, we were to change our id's to new ones, that would not have the religion printed on it. The Church then started gathering signatures from people, to push for a referendum. They gathered almost 3 mil signatures out of 9 mil population. The state didnt even bother examining the request.
That is how big role the church is playing here.

*2 Bobby
We dont want to wipe out any Makedonians. We love our Greek brothers. Now if you are reffering to our northern neighbours, no, we dont want to wipe them out. We like them although they are misguided :)

Leonidas, you seem to have a rather confused moral compass! So, it's wrong for Albanians to split Serbia, but right for them to split Macedonia?

Nikitas; I could care less!!! The fact remains that you are denying MY BEINGNESS wherever and whenever you can!
Re: Demetrios, he should be taking care of his peoples SPIRITUAL welfare, and not catering to people' nationalistic fantasies at the expense of others'. Demetrios, if he was a true leader, would be educating his followers that true freedom is found within the heart! It means LOVING THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF!!!

@ Nikitas; do you remember back in physics class, when they taught that there is no such thing as an ABSOLUTE!
There is no black or white, only a trillion shades of grey! So when you post dogmatic absolutes about OUR HISTORY, making all kinds of ASSUMPTIONS that are basically of the "a million drunks can't be wrong" variety, you end up with very little credibility at all!

The disturbing thing now however, is that it's coming out that the issue is not about the name at all, but about the Macedonian ethnicity, language, etc. etc. Greece is now, through it's vehement hatred of ethnic Macedonians radicalizing the Macedonians so that this peaceful nation/people is beginning to feel hatred toward all and everything "Greek". Now why is this?

And finally; DON'T PATRONISE US, with your "We actually like you but..."
pillow talk! In the next breath you say, "...but you don't exist"! True friends do not put conditions on friendship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are no friend of ours but a bully that overestimates it's own importance and power!

I'm sure Dora has that veto in her handbag... and then, whammo, the big, bad Albanians will take care of fyrom once and for all! OK, guys don't forget to pray tonight, or better still, forget prayers, and simply go to the Emporer, just like Archbishop
Demetrios...
(Dimitar, 27 March 2008 14:49)

Its immoral on your behalf to twist things to your thinking.I was replying to your posting above.Unlike yourself I've always been in favour of the existing borders in the balkans and i would hate to see the Albanians causing any problems to your country.Do I
make myself clear?

Dime, the crisis the Greeks are experiencing is actually to do with their own "identity", and not that of Macedonians!

Apologies Leonidas, I thought you were implying that MKD was next on Albanians' list, and that that was OK!