26

Wednesday, 26.03.2008.

10:21

Primakov advises Serbs: Migrate and merge

Yevgeny Primakov says that Serbs from southern parts of Kosovo should move to the north and merge with Serbia.

Izvor: Beta

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26 Komentari

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lowe

pre 16 godina

"The future of the Serb heritage sites in mid and south Kosovo is one question that will require great imagination.
(Tom O'Donoghue, 26 March 2008 12:39) "

These historical buildings can be moved north too. The mammoth Abu Simbel site in Egypt was moved to make way for the Aswan Dam and it is probably a hundred times bigger than Decani and other monuments in Kosovo.

Elton, NYC

pre 16 godina

4. Any attempts by the Macedonian Albanians and the Bosnian Croats to capitalise on these developments should not be countenanced. The Croats are already very fortunate to have held onto the Krajina and the Albanians will have gained most of what they wanted in Kosovo.
(Tom O'Donoghue, 26 March 2008 12:39)

I must say Tom that I agree with most of your plan save #4. Why should Albanians not be allowed to unite in one state whereas the Serbs get to pick Rep. Srpska and Northern Kosova. How is Rep. Srpska different from Western Macedonia, or Northern Kosova from Southern Serbia?

Albanians in Kosova made a huge concession in agreeing to the Ahtisaari plan and that is giving up the idea of joining Albania and ensuring the rights of all minorities.

If it were up to me a total redrawing of the borders in the Balkans is needed.

I'd even force Croatia to give some of Krajina, if not all, back to Serbia. This, however, might be very hard since the demographics have changed in the region.

There's way too much bad blood and people need to be separated for a while. Then we'd all be part of the EU and borders won't matter anymore.

The Swiss

pre 16 godina

BEEN A WAR, there has been a systematic STATE ETHNIC CLEANSING. Don't forget these FACTS guys when rushing to conclusions.
(EA, 26 March 2008 20:15)

Oh yes, we too well know what happened the last 10 years, just have to read the today's last report from The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC).
"white" cleansing, yes indeed and we'll not forget these FACTS.

EA

pre 16 godina

To cut it short the story the Russian and the Serbian polititians when the talk about Kosova they deliberately "forget" what what happened in Kosova in the last decades. THAT IS THE MAIN ISSUE. If there was no war many suggestions would have make sense or would have been worthy to consider BUT IN KOSOVA THERE HAS BEEN A WAR, there has been a systematic STATE ETHNIC CLEANSING. Don't forget these FACTS guys when rushing to conclusions.

village-bey

pre 16 godina

What do you think is this idea (Primakov idea) better than Ahtisari package?
(Tex Willer, 26 March 2008 16:40)
Migrate and Merge sounds to simplistic Tex. If only was that easy. Everyone can come up with ready-cooked meal tittles like that. What about Shake and Stir, I personally think it is more ethical and above all, it sounds better.

Gojko

pre 16 godina

Is Yevgeny Primakov an American spy. Who are you to tell Serbs where to Migrate and live. Serbs are welcome to stay any where they please in their country of Kosovo in Serbia. Serbs don't need an "ally" like you. Russia will stab the Serbs in the back.

Delie

pre 16 godina

Loqja, Sure buddy sure. Dino, made me laugh, thanks for your oppinion. Miri, take out the word "Russians", and add KLA and you'll finaly get it right. Laki NY, for now my friend. If that's what you call independent.

KS

pre 16 godina

Ahtisaari plan gives 10x more power than the "kosovo minister" and more rights than moving Kosovar-S to the north. When will you Serbs realise this?

Nicholas Klinsman

pre 16 godina

@bad gorilla:

You realize the ethnic composiition of the Presevo valley includes a great deal of Serbs. In fact almost all of Medvedja with the exception of maybe two villages, most of Bujanovac including the town, and even some parts of Presevo have a Serbian majority. Those places could not be a part of such an arrangement.

Stevan

pre 16 godina

Miri, Dino,

"… Russians … stir … trouble … desperate to create … conflict, even just a little one, just for the sake of it … "

??? What are you talking about? Where are you getting your information, CNN and FOX News? In reality, by all accounts, US is responsible for most of the conflicts in the world in the last 60 years and is correspondingly responsible for the deaths of millions of helpless, innocent civilians in countless, unfortunate, third world countries. No other country in the world comes even close to this tragic American record. If international justice system could work objectively, most of post WWII US administrations and top brass would be sentenced as war criminals.
After the end of The Cold War Russia did shown unbelievable will to compromise and reach some kind of agreement for the permanent peaceful cooperation with a Western world and readiness to pay quite a heavy price for that. West wouldn't have any of it. Instead of using these unique opportunity to develop creative relations, they treated Russia as a defeated adversary and developed strategies for the total destruction of Russia, humiliating it at every occasion they could.

" .. ask the Poles, Czechs etc. … It (Russia) cant preach about US pressure on countries when it bullied countries into signing the Warsaw pact, use it to invade them and slam these countries behind iron curtain…"

Ask South Americans about US "gentle" hand controlling their affairs ... Although most of the US brutality was excercised toward thirld world countries, some times they were not so subtle handling European affairs as well: http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/philip_willan/2008/01/sporchi_trucchi.html
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=16921
Warsaw pact was reaction to NATO.

"… UN will fall and be re-organized into something that resembles the reality in the world… "

You are probably right about falling of the UN, as US did everything they could to undermine this international organization and transform it into yet another instrument of American foreign policy. But they might regret destruction of UN in not too distant future. History didn't end in the nineties as they hoped. Although we in the Balkans didn't notice this yet, American and West European supremacy is weakening. They are loosing technological superiority very fast. Dollar is falling… New regional and global powers are emerging. Americans thought that XXI century would be theirs. Instead of century it might turn out to be 20 years at
most.

shqarthi

pre 16 godina

I hope it doesn't come to that. It is their homes. But I also think it will be difficult that they accept to live in an independent Kosovar state. The important thing for them is that the situation is not inflamed even further, until some negotiated solution is found.

bganon

pre 16 godina

Mr Primakov is not looking at this in terms of what is in peoples best interest. He is looking at it from the point of view of geopolitics, which for him means the game between Russia and the United States.

Perhaps he cares about the plight of the Kosovo Serbs and perhaps not, its not important. For sure the US administration doesn't truly care about Albanians either.

No, I don't have an answer but sometimes its better to admit you don't have an answer to a problem than to advocate a solution. How do you tell people effectively that they should ethnically cleanse themselves and say goodbye to their homes and history that they spent so long building?

Neither Primakov nor Belgrade has the right to tell Kosovo Serbs this.

Bad Gorilla

pre 16 godina

Fine… and then Albanians in South Serbia join themselves to annex the land they live with the rest of Kosovo!

Come on, Primakov, stop bluffing. Ther is no way to create a “second Faluja” in Mitrovica, since NATO is stronger than any Serb paramilitary force. It was tested and proofed in 1999, when Serbia was much stronger than today.

Nehat Krasniqi

pre 16 godina

No one should go anywhere; as a Kosovar-Albanian, i think this will not benefit the serbs or the region. There is no need to relocate citizens of Kosova anywhere.

Serbia will set a precedent in the region; north of mitrovica vs Presevo its lose lose either way, and if this does happen it will leave no room for future diplomatic relations between Serbia and Kosova.

I don't really no what Belgrade is trying to get out of this idea, it will lose either way, but they still want this school boy fight, THE most forget Russia and concentrate on reality of joining the EU which will bring down the boarders and people can live anywhere they want with free trade. THAT'S THE WAY FORWARD

luigi

pre 16 godina

Very pragmatic view Mr.Primakov! but with 7-8 years late !
An Italian MP who visited Kosovo some years ago said the same things he also suggested the relocation of Orthodox monastery in the north (as we all know that is possible with actual technology )
So why all this has not been done !! Who is to blame ?

laki NY

pre 16 godina

“He said that the Americans were strong and were relying on the NATO presence in Kosovo.” - Yes Russia will bow to the only superpower in the world; sooner or later, its looks sooner

“The former foreign minister said that this was the first time in history that an autonomous region had been allowed to secede” – Thank you for understanding. I appreciate the fact that your statement reflects reality on the ground. Kosova is independent as you confirmed it yourself!

Nicholas Klinsman

pre 16 godina

Tom, I'm glad you included Republika Srpska in this discussion. Too many people forget about that.

I also think your thoughts here are very pragmatic. Although, I do not see any way to not include the Bosnian Croats wishes in this.

miri

pre 16 godina

So the Russians are "dying" to stir some trouble in the Balkans, or anywhere for that matter. They dream about it day and night, they dream about armies clashing, refuges lining up at the neighbouring countries, people quiting their daily jobs and taking on the streets. All that Russians see is blood, endless conflicts (preferably similar of Chechnya) politicians dressed up in army uniforms so their Kremlin groups could flourish to the extreme. They seem to be pretty desperate to create some conflict, even just a little one, just for the sake of it. And last but not least they seem very disappointed for not having one yet.

Tom O'Donoghue

pre 16 godina

It seems to me, at least in the short to medium term, that most of Kosovo is lost to Serbia. Assuming that the US/NATO are committed to the "independence" of the Albanians, then warfare is the only option open to reverse the situation. I do not believe that any Serbian government wants to go that way as it would inevitably lead to a much wider and destructive conflict.

So, assuming the above, let me outline what I think should happen.

1. Nothing should be done for two years except for the ongoing Serbian diplomatic offensive to limit international recognition of Kosovo and continuing support from Belgrade for the K-Serbs.

2. Assuming only around 50 countries have recognised Kosovo at that stage, an international conference should be convened under the auspices of the UN to devise a strategy for:
- the partition of Kosovo with the north subsumed into Serbia.
- the incorporation of Republika Srpska into Serbia.

3. At this point, Mr Primakov's suggestion of all K-Serbs migrating northwards comes into play. All Serbs wishing to do so should be fully compensated and allocated housing and jobs wherever they choose to settle. This could be managed quite easily and funded by member countries of the UN.

4. Any attempts by the Macedonian Albanians and the Bosnian Croats to capitalise on these developments should not be countenanced. The Croats are already very fortunate to have held onto the Krajina and the Albanians will have gained most of what they wanted in Kosovo.

This is not a perfect scenario and, no doubt, lots of posters will pick holes in it, but it could work. And it is a peaceful approach. It is time that the Serbian nation became a state. The incorporation of North Kosovo and Srpska into Serbia will achieve that while leaving the other ethnic groups with a great deal of their ambitions achieved. Bosnia, of course, would be smaller than it is now but it would also be a lot more secure.

The future of the Serb heritage sites in mid and south Kosovo is one question that will require great imagination.

john LOQJA

pre 16 godina

It not only represent the begining of a muslim state in Europa, but the end ef Rusian influence in world affairs as well. U.S.A will send its NATO trups right to its border, namely Georgia and Ucraine and Rusia will not dare leaaving its borders. Its like a powerless dog that barks,

mememe

pre 16 godina

Wrong! Serbs from Serbia should move to all parts of Kosovo, so that they become the majority. They should also go into Kosovo Parlament. This would be the best way to save Kosovo from US, Believe Me!

Independance for Republika Srpska!!

bmrusila

pre 16 godina

What Mr Primakov is saying is official partition which is not in Serbia’s best interests. I do agree to some extend that moving Serbs that reside South of the Ibar River would be best solution for their safety but then what to offer those people when they move in Northern part. Those people must be provided with accommodation. We cannot place them in some collective Centres, in humiliating living conditions.

Then, if are talking about official partition as final solution I cannot accept that our cultural heritage is going to be left in Kosovo. If we move the people then we certainly must move all the cultural sites and monuments. Leaving them there with no Serbs residing around those sites I am sure that cultural heritage would be exposed to torture on the daily basis until totally destroyed. No one can and will take good care of them as Serbs would. How we are going to solve this problem?

Finally, I think that Mr Samardzic’s proposal is far better so far because the proposal include only functional partition which means two separated systems in the province. That leaves enough legal bases to regain full sovereignty over the province once the new conditions enable us to do so, or until full reconciliation between Serbs and Albanians take place and when the Serbs regain the trust in Albanians.

When it comes to merging Northern part of Kosovo to Serbia, in my opinion there is legal ground to do it already now since Northern part is artificially and forcefully included as part of Kosovo during 1950’s. Northern part originally do not belong to Kosovo.

Dino

pre 16 godina

One thing that Primakov assumes is that if west overturns their independence that Kosovars will simply go "oh well" and get on with it. This is something that Russia is wrong and blind just as much as west is accused.

As for serbs claiming that it is typical for albanians to threat violence, please look at yourselves recently in Kosovo and in last 2 decades. Serbs dont exactly practise "restraint".

Russia assumes that Kosovars would rather be under serbia than be controlled by UN or NATO. again wrong assumption. Kosovars would rather be in limbo than have any links to territorial serbia.

Whilst west is assumed for disrespecting serbs, it is more obvious that kosovars are given no respect by serbs or russians. One has to look at many comments written by people on B92.

As for province having independence etc, and illegal invasions, russians cant talk, their actions and crimes in eastern europe whilst under Soviet Union is disgraceful. There was far greater act of bullying and violence than anything that has happened and will happen in Kosovo. Just ask the Poles, Czechs etc. It cant preach about US pressure on countries when it bullied countries into signing the Warsaw pact, use it to invade them and slam these countries behind iron curtain. Currently. its constant interference in Georgia in particular is shameful. hundreds of thousands of georginans were ethnically cleansed from abkhazia and yet serbs are taking the russian position on abkhazia. "abhkazia is russian". well there are mostly russians there now. Funny how they dont apply same arguements about Krajina to abhkazia. I guess its not convenient. I wont even mention georgina cleansing in Ossetia and Tskhinval.

So why should the world take Russia seriously? In particular in UN where it has most of the power and yet Mexico is a higher funder of UN than Russia. Russia has no economic influence as its own economy is not high. serbs have this opinion that russian economy will all of a sudden explode with 200% growth per year. Whilst yes it has fuel, it has no food. thats where it needs EU to survive. It shows much for russian govt's and serbian govt's ability to care for its people when it assumes that their own people are expendable when it comes to exerting influence with rest of the world. But I guess russia has a history of this.

Just like League of Nations, UN will fall and be re-organised into something that resembles the reality in the world. With russian severe population decline, by end of century russians as they are known today will not exist. That is the byproduct of the international policy dominating their domestic political scene. But then again, Russian influence cant be that great if it cant influence any major economic powers of the world.

Svabo

pre 16 godina

> I think that the best solution now would be for the Serbs to move from the southern parts to the north

WHY!! Based on what grounds?!!?? THen is we are to play this game of moving people, then why shouldn't one tell Albanians in Macedonia and Montenegro and Greece to move to Kosovo or Albanina?

mememe

pre 16 godina

Wrong! Serbs from Serbia should move to all parts of Kosovo, so that they become the majority. They should also go into Kosovo Parlament. This would be the best way to save Kosovo from US, Believe Me!

Independance for Republika Srpska!!

bmrusila

pre 16 godina

What Mr Primakov is saying is official partition which is not in Serbia’s best interests. I do agree to some extend that moving Serbs that reside South of the Ibar River would be best solution for their safety but then what to offer those people when they move in Northern part. Those people must be provided with accommodation. We cannot place them in some collective Centres, in humiliating living conditions.

Then, if are talking about official partition as final solution I cannot accept that our cultural heritage is going to be left in Kosovo. If we move the people then we certainly must move all the cultural sites and monuments. Leaving them there with no Serbs residing around those sites I am sure that cultural heritage would be exposed to torture on the daily basis until totally destroyed. No one can and will take good care of them as Serbs would. How we are going to solve this problem?

Finally, I think that Mr Samardzic’s proposal is far better so far because the proposal include only functional partition which means two separated systems in the province. That leaves enough legal bases to regain full sovereignty over the province once the new conditions enable us to do so, or until full reconciliation between Serbs and Albanians take place and when the Serbs regain the trust in Albanians.

When it comes to merging Northern part of Kosovo to Serbia, in my opinion there is legal ground to do it already now since Northern part is artificially and forcefully included as part of Kosovo during 1950’s. Northern part originally do not belong to Kosovo.

Svabo

pre 16 godina

> I think that the best solution now would be for the Serbs to move from the southern parts to the north

WHY!! Based on what grounds?!!?? THen is we are to play this game of moving people, then why shouldn't one tell Albanians in Macedonia and Montenegro and Greece to move to Kosovo or Albanina?

Tom O'Donoghue

pre 16 godina

It seems to me, at least in the short to medium term, that most of Kosovo is lost to Serbia. Assuming that the US/NATO are committed to the "independence" of the Albanians, then warfare is the only option open to reverse the situation. I do not believe that any Serbian government wants to go that way as it would inevitably lead to a much wider and destructive conflict.

So, assuming the above, let me outline what I think should happen.

1. Nothing should be done for two years except for the ongoing Serbian diplomatic offensive to limit international recognition of Kosovo and continuing support from Belgrade for the K-Serbs.

2. Assuming only around 50 countries have recognised Kosovo at that stage, an international conference should be convened under the auspices of the UN to devise a strategy for:
- the partition of Kosovo with the north subsumed into Serbia.
- the incorporation of Republika Srpska into Serbia.

3. At this point, Mr Primakov's suggestion of all K-Serbs migrating northwards comes into play. All Serbs wishing to do so should be fully compensated and allocated housing and jobs wherever they choose to settle. This could be managed quite easily and funded by member countries of the UN.

4. Any attempts by the Macedonian Albanians and the Bosnian Croats to capitalise on these developments should not be countenanced. The Croats are already very fortunate to have held onto the Krajina and the Albanians will have gained most of what they wanted in Kosovo.

This is not a perfect scenario and, no doubt, lots of posters will pick holes in it, but it could work. And it is a peaceful approach. It is time that the Serbian nation became a state. The incorporation of North Kosovo and Srpska into Serbia will achieve that while leaving the other ethnic groups with a great deal of their ambitions achieved. Bosnia, of course, would be smaller than it is now but it would also be a lot more secure.

The future of the Serb heritage sites in mid and south Kosovo is one question that will require great imagination.

miri

pre 16 godina

So the Russians are "dying" to stir some trouble in the Balkans, or anywhere for that matter. They dream about it day and night, they dream about armies clashing, refuges lining up at the neighbouring countries, people quiting their daily jobs and taking on the streets. All that Russians see is blood, endless conflicts (preferably similar of Chechnya) politicians dressed up in army uniforms so their Kremlin groups could flourish to the extreme. They seem to be pretty desperate to create some conflict, even just a little one, just for the sake of it. And last but not least they seem very disappointed for not having one yet.

Dino

pre 16 godina

One thing that Primakov assumes is that if west overturns their independence that Kosovars will simply go "oh well" and get on with it. This is something that Russia is wrong and blind just as much as west is accused.

As for serbs claiming that it is typical for albanians to threat violence, please look at yourselves recently in Kosovo and in last 2 decades. Serbs dont exactly practise "restraint".

Russia assumes that Kosovars would rather be under serbia than be controlled by UN or NATO. again wrong assumption. Kosovars would rather be in limbo than have any links to territorial serbia.

Whilst west is assumed for disrespecting serbs, it is more obvious that kosovars are given no respect by serbs or russians. One has to look at many comments written by people on B92.

As for province having independence etc, and illegal invasions, russians cant talk, their actions and crimes in eastern europe whilst under Soviet Union is disgraceful. There was far greater act of bullying and violence than anything that has happened and will happen in Kosovo. Just ask the Poles, Czechs etc. It cant preach about US pressure on countries when it bullied countries into signing the Warsaw pact, use it to invade them and slam these countries behind iron curtain. Currently. its constant interference in Georgia in particular is shameful. hundreds of thousands of georginans were ethnically cleansed from abkhazia and yet serbs are taking the russian position on abkhazia. "abhkazia is russian". well there are mostly russians there now. Funny how they dont apply same arguements about Krajina to abhkazia. I guess its not convenient. I wont even mention georgina cleansing in Ossetia and Tskhinval.

So why should the world take Russia seriously? In particular in UN where it has most of the power and yet Mexico is a higher funder of UN than Russia. Russia has no economic influence as its own economy is not high. serbs have this opinion that russian economy will all of a sudden explode with 200% growth per year. Whilst yes it has fuel, it has no food. thats where it needs EU to survive. It shows much for russian govt's and serbian govt's ability to care for its people when it assumes that their own people are expendable when it comes to exerting influence with rest of the world. But I guess russia has a history of this.

Just like League of Nations, UN will fall and be re-organised into something that resembles the reality in the world. With russian severe population decline, by end of century russians as they are known today will not exist. That is the byproduct of the international policy dominating their domestic political scene. But then again, Russian influence cant be that great if it cant influence any major economic powers of the world.

bganon

pre 16 godina

Mr Primakov is not looking at this in terms of what is in peoples best interest. He is looking at it from the point of view of geopolitics, which for him means the game between Russia and the United States.

Perhaps he cares about the plight of the Kosovo Serbs and perhaps not, its not important. For sure the US administration doesn't truly care about Albanians either.

No, I don't have an answer but sometimes its better to admit you don't have an answer to a problem than to advocate a solution. How do you tell people effectively that they should ethnically cleanse themselves and say goodbye to their homes and history that they spent so long building?

Neither Primakov nor Belgrade has the right to tell Kosovo Serbs this.

Nicholas Klinsman

pre 16 godina

Tom, I'm glad you included Republika Srpska in this discussion. Too many people forget about that.

I also think your thoughts here are very pragmatic. Although, I do not see any way to not include the Bosnian Croats wishes in this.

Stevan

pre 16 godina

Miri, Dino,

"… Russians … stir … trouble … desperate to create … conflict, even just a little one, just for the sake of it … "

??? What are you talking about? Where are you getting your information, CNN and FOX News? In reality, by all accounts, US is responsible for most of the conflicts in the world in the last 60 years and is correspondingly responsible for the deaths of millions of helpless, innocent civilians in countless, unfortunate, third world countries. No other country in the world comes even close to this tragic American record. If international justice system could work objectively, most of post WWII US administrations and top brass would be sentenced as war criminals.
After the end of The Cold War Russia did shown unbelievable will to compromise and reach some kind of agreement for the permanent peaceful cooperation with a Western world and readiness to pay quite a heavy price for that. West wouldn't have any of it. Instead of using these unique opportunity to develop creative relations, they treated Russia as a defeated adversary and developed strategies for the total destruction of Russia, humiliating it at every occasion they could.

" .. ask the Poles, Czechs etc. … It (Russia) cant preach about US pressure on countries when it bullied countries into signing the Warsaw pact, use it to invade them and slam these countries behind iron curtain…"

Ask South Americans about US "gentle" hand controlling their affairs ... Although most of the US brutality was excercised toward thirld world countries, some times they were not so subtle handling European affairs as well: http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/philip_willan/2008/01/sporchi_trucchi.html
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=16921
Warsaw pact was reaction to NATO.

"… UN will fall and be re-organized into something that resembles the reality in the world… "

You are probably right about falling of the UN, as US did everything they could to undermine this international organization and transform it into yet another instrument of American foreign policy. But they might regret destruction of UN in not too distant future. History didn't end in the nineties as they hoped. Although we in the Balkans didn't notice this yet, American and West European supremacy is weakening. They are loosing technological superiority very fast. Dollar is falling… New regional and global powers are emerging. Americans thought that XXI century would be theirs. Instead of century it might turn out to be 20 years at
most.

Nicholas Klinsman

pre 16 godina

@bad gorilla:

You realize the ethnic composiition of the Presevo valley includes a great deal of Serbs. In fact almost all of Medvedja with the exception of maybe two villages, most of Bujanovac including the town, and even some parts of Presevo have a Serbian majority. Those places could not be a part of such an arrangement.

shqarthi

pre 16 godina

I hope it doesn't come to that. It is their homes. But I also think it will be difficult that they accept to live in an independent Kosovar state. The important thing for them is that the situation is not inflamed even further, until some negotiated solution is found.

The Swiss

pre 16 godina

BEEN A WAR, there has been a systematic STATE ETHNIC CLEANSING. Don't forget these FACTS guys when rushing to conclusions.
(EA, 26 March 2008 20:15)

Oh yes, we too well know what happened the last 10 years, just have to read the today's last report from The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC).
"white" cleansing, yes indeed and we'll not forget these FACTS.

Delie

pre 16 godina

Loqja, Sure buddy sure. Dino, made me laugh, thanks for your oppinion. Miri, take out the word "Russians", and add KLA and you'll finaly get it right. Laki NY, for now my friend. If that's what you call independent.

Nehat Krasniqi

pre 16 godina

No one should go anywhere; as a Kosovar-Albanian, i think this will not benefit the serbs or the region. There is no need to relocate citizens of Kosova anywhere.

Serbia will set a precedent in the region; north of mitrovica vs Presevo its lose lose either way, and if this does happen it will leave no room for future diplomatic relations between Serbia and Kosova.

I don't really no what Belgrade is trying to get out of this idea, it will lose either way, but they still want this school boy fight, THE most forget Russia and concentrate on reality of joining the EU which will bring down the boarders and people can live anywhere they want with free trade. THAT'S THE WAY FORWARD

Gojko

pre 16 godina

Is Yevgeny Primakov an American spy. Who are you to tell Serbs where to Migrate and live. Serbs are welcome to stay any where they please in their country of Kosovo in Serbia. Serbs don't need an "ally" like you. Russia will stab the Serbs in the back.

laki NY

pre 16 godina

“He said that the Americans were strong and were relying on the NATO presence in Kosovo.” - Yes Russia will bow to the only superpower in the world; sooner or later, its looks sooner

“The former foreign minister said that this was the first time in history that an autonomous region had been allowed to secede” – Thank you for understanding. I appreciate the fact that your statement reflects reality on the ground. Kosova is independent as you confirmed it yourself!

Elton, NYC

pre 16 godina

4. Any attempts by the Macedonian Albanians and the Bosnian Croats to capitalise on these developments should not be countenanced. The Croats are already very fortunate to have held onto the Krajina and the Albanians will have gained most of what they wanted in Kosovo.
(Tom O'Donoghue, 26 March 2008 12:39)

I must say Tom that I agree with most of your plan save #4. Why should Albanians not be allowed to unite in one state whereas the Serbs get to pick Rep. Srpska and Northern Kosova. How is Rep. Srpska different from Western Macedonia, or Northern Kosova from Southern Serbia?

Albanians in Kosova made a huge concession in agreeing to the Ahtisaari plan and that is giving up the idea of joining Albania and ensuring the rights of all minorities.

If it were up to me a total redrawing of the borders in the Balkans is needed.

I'd even force Croatia to give some of Krajina, if not all, back to Serbia. This, however, might be very hard since the demographics have changed in the region.

There's way too much bad blood and people need to be separated for a while. Then we'd all be part of the EU and borders won't matter anymore.

john LOQJA

pre 16 godina

It not only represent the begining of a muslim state in Europa, but the end ef Rusian influence in world affairs as well. U.S.A will send its NATO trups right to its border, namely Georgia and Ucraine and Rusia will not dare leaaving its borders. Its like a powerless dog that barks,

luigi

pre 16 godina

Very pragmatic view Mr.Primakov! but with 7-8 years late !
An Italian MP who visited Kosovo some years ago said the same things he also suggested the relocation of Orthodox monastery in the north (as we all know that is possible with actual technology )
So why all this has not been done !! Who is to blame ?

village-bey

pre 16 godina

What do you think is this idea (Primakov idea) better than Ahtisari package?
(Tex Willer, 26 March 2008 16:40)
Migrate and Merge sounds to simplistic Tex. If only was that easy. Everyone can come up with ready-cooked meal tittles like that. What about Shake and Stir, I personally think it is more ethical and above all, it sounds better.

KS

pre 16 godina

Ahtisaari plan gives 10x more power than the "kosovo minister" and more rights than moving Kosovar-S to the north. When will you Serbs realise this?

EA

pre 16 godina

To cut it short the story the Russian and the Serbian polititians when the talk about Kosova they deliberately "forget" what what happened in Kosova in the last decades. THAT IS THE MAIN ISSUE. If there was no war many suggestions would have make sense or would have been worthy to consider BUT IN KOSOVA THERE HAS BEEN A WAR, there has been a systematic STATE ETHNIC CLEANSING. Don't forget these FACTS guys when rushing to conclusions.

Bad Gorilla

pre 16 godina

Fine… and then Albanians in South Serbia join themselves to annex the land they live with the rest of Kosovo!

Come on, Primakov, stop bluffing. Ther is no way to create a “second Faluja” in Mitrovica, since NATO is stronger than any Serb paramilitary force. It was tested and proofed in 1999, when Serbia was much stronger than today.

lowe

pre 16 godina

"The future of the Serb heritage sites in mid and south Kosovo is one question that will require great imagination.
(Tom O'Donoghue, 26 March 2008 12:39) "

These historical buildings can be moved north too. The mammoth Abu Simbel site in Egypt was moved to make way for the Aswan Dam and it is probably a hundred times bigger than Decani and other monuments in Kosovo.

miri

pre 16 godina

So the Russians are "dying" to stir some trouble in the Balkans, or anywhere for that matter. They dream about it day and night, they dream about armies clashing, refuges lining up at the neighbouring countries, people quiting their daily jobs and taking on the streets. All that Russians see is blood, endless conflicts (preferably similar of Chechnya) politicians dressed up in army uniforms so their Kremlin groups could flourish to the extreme. They seem to be pretty desperate to create some conflict, even just a little one, just for the sake of it. And last but not least they seem very disappointed for not having one yet.

Dino

pre 16 godina

One thing that Primakov assumes is that if west overturns their independence that Kosovars will simply go "oh well" and get on with it. This is something that Russia is wrong and blind just as much as west is accused.

As for serbs claiming that it is typical for albanians to threat violence, please look at yourselves recently in Kosovo and in last 2 decades. Serbs dont exactly practise "restraint".

Russia assumes that Kosovars would rather be under serbia than be controlled by UN or NATO. again wrong assumption. Kosovars would rather be in limbo than have any links to territorial serbia.

Whilst west is assumed for disrespecting serbs, it is more obvious that kosovars are given no respect by serbs or russians. One has to look at many comments written by people on B92.

As for province having independence etc, and illegal invasions, russians cant talk, their actions and crimes in eastern europe whilst under Soviet Union is disgraceful. There was far greater act of bullying and violence than anything that has happened and will happen in Kosovo. Just ask the Poles, Czechs etc. It cant preach about US pressure on countries when it bullied countries into signing the Warsaw pact, use it to invade them and slam these countries behind iron curtain. Currently. its constant interference in Georgia in particular is shameful. hundreds of thousands of georginans were ethnically cleansed from abkhazia and yet serbs are taking the russian position on abkhazia. "abhkazia is russian". well there are mostly russians there now. Funny how they dont apply same arguements about Krajina to abhkazia. I guess its not convenient. I wont even mention georgina cleansing in Ossetia and Tskhinval.

So why should the world take Russia seriously? In particular in UN where it has most of the power and yet Mexico is a higher funder of UN than Russia. Russia has no economic influence as its own economy is not high. serbs have this opinion that russian economy will all of a sudden explode with 200% growth per year. Whilst yes it has fuel, it has no food. thats where it needs EU to survive. It shows much for russian govt's and serbian govt's ability to care for its people when it assumes that their own people are expendable when it comes to exerting influence with rest of the world. But I guess russia has a history of this.

Just like League of Nations, UN will fall and be re-organised into something that resembles the reality in the world. With russian severe population decline, by end of century russians as they are known today will not exist. That is the byproduct of the international policy dominating their domestic political scene. But then again, Russian influence cant be that great if it cant influence any major economic powers of the world.

john LOQJA

pre 16 godina

It not only represent the begining of a muslim state in Europa, but the end ef Rusian influence in world affairs as well. U.S.A will send its NATO trups right to its border, namely Georgia and Ucraine and Rusia will not dare leaaving its borders. Its like a powerless dog that barks,

Bad Gorilla

pre 16 godina

Fine… and then Albanians in South Serbia join themselves to annex the land they live with the rest of Kosovo!

Come on, Primakov, stop bluffing. Ther is no way to create a “second Faluja” in Mitrovica, since NATO is stronger than any Serb paramilitary force. It was tested and proofed in 1999, when Serbia was much stronger than today.

Nehat Krasniqi

pre 16 godina

No one should go anywhere; as a Kosovar-Albanian, i think this will not benefit the serbs or the region. There is no need to relocate citizens of Kosova anywhere.

Serbia will set a precedent in the region; north of mitrovica vs Presevo its lose lose either way, and if this does happen it will leave no room for future diplomatic relations between Serbia and Kosova.

I don't really no what Belgrade is trying to get out of this idea, it will lose either way, but they still want this school boy fight, THE most forget Russia and concentrate on reality of joining the EU which will bring down the boarders and people can live anywhere they want with free trade. THAT'S THE WAY FORWARD

mememe

pre 16 godina

Wrong! Serbs from Serbia should move to all parts of Kosovo, so that they become the majority. They should also go into Kosovo Parlament. This would be the best way to save Kosovo from US, Believe Me!

Independance for Republika Srpska!!

EA

pre 16 godina

To cut it short the story the Russian and the Serbian polititians when the talk about Kosova they deliberately "forget" what what happened in Kosova in the last decades. THAT IS THE MAIN ISSUE. If there was no war many suggestions would have make sense or would have been worthy to consider BUT IN KOSOVA THERE HAS BEEN A WAR, there has been a systematic STATE ETHNIC CLEANSING. Don't forget these FACTS guys when rushing to conclusions.

laki NY

pre 16 godina

“He said that the Americans were strong and were relying on the NATO presence in Kosovo.” - Yes Russia will bow to the only superpower in the world; sooner or later, its looks sooner

“The former foreign minister said that this was the first time in history that an autonomous region had been allowed to secede” – Thank you for understanding. I appreciate the fact that your statement reflects reality on the ground. Kosova is independent as you confirmed it yourself!

Elton, NYC

pre 16 godina

4. Any attempts by the Macedonian Albanians and the Bosnian Croats to capitalise on these developments should not be countenanced. The Croats are already very fortunate to have held onto the Krajina and the Albanians will have gained most of what they wanted in Kosovo.
(Tom O'Donoghue, 26 March 2008 12:39)

I must say Tom that I agree with most of your plan save #4. Why should Albanians not be allowed to unite in one state whereas the Serbs get to pick Rep. Srpska and Northern Kosova. How is Rep. Srpska different from Western Macedonia, or Northern Kosova from Southern Serbia?

Albanians in Kosova made a huge concession in agreeing to the Ahtisaari plan and that is giving up the idea of joining Albania and ensuring the rights of all minorities.

If it were up to me a total redrawing of the borders in the Balkans is needed.

I'd even force Croatia to give some of Krajina, if not all, back to Serbia. This, however, might be very hard since the demographics have changed in the region.

There's way too much bad blood and people need to be separated for a while. Then we'd all be part of the EU and borders won't matter anymore.

luigi

pre 16 godina

Very pragmatic view Mr.Primakov! but with 7-8 years late !
An Italian MP who visited Kosovo some years ago said the same things he also suggested the relocation of Orthodox monastery in the north (as we all know that is possible with actual technology )
So why all this has not been done !! Who is to blame ?

KS

pre 16 godina

Ahtisaari plan gives 10x more power than the "kosovo minister" and more rights than moving Kosovar-S to the north. When will you Serbs realise this?

bmrusila

pre 16 godina

What Mr Primakov is saying is official partition which is not in Serbia’s best interests. I do agree to some extend that moving Serbs that reside South of the Ibar River would be best solution for their safety but then what to offer those people when they move in Northern part. Those people must be provided with accommodation. We cannot place them in some collective Centres, in humiliating living conditions.

Then, if are talking about official partition as final solution I cannot accept that our cultural heritage is going to be left in Kosovo. If we move the people then we certainly must move all the cultural sites and monuments. Leaving them there with no Serbs residing around those sites I am sure that cultural heritage would be exposed to torture on the daily basis until totally destroyed. No one can and will take good care of them as Serbs would. How we are going to solve this problem?

Finally, I think that Mr Samardzic’s proposal is far better so far because the proposal include only functional partition which means two separated systems in the province. That leaves enough legal bases to regain full sovereignty over the province once the new conditions enable us to do so, or until full reconciliation between Serbs and Albanians take place and when the Serbs regain the trust in Albanians.

When it comes to merging Northern part of Kosovo to Serbia, in my opinion there is legal ground to do it already now since Northern part is artificially and forcefully included as part of Kosovo during 1950’s. Northern part originally do not belong to Kosovo.

Svabo

pre 16 godina

> I think that the best solution now would be for the Serbs to move from the southern parts to the north

WHY!! Based on what grounds?!!?? THen is we are to play this game of moving people, then why shouldn't one tell Albanians in Macedonia and Montenegro and Greece to move to Kosovo or Albanina?

Tom O'Donoghue

pre 16 godina

It seems to me, at least in the short to medium term, that most of Kosovo is lost to Serbia. Assuming that the US/NATO are committed to the "independence" of the Albanians, then warfare is the only option open to reverse the situation. I do not believe that any Serbian government wants to go that way as it would inevitably lead to a much wider and destructive conflict.

So, assuming the above, let me outline what I think should happen.

1. Nothing should be done for two years except for the ongoing Serbian diplomatic offensive to limit international recognition of Kosovo and continuing support from Belgrade for the K-Serbs.

2. Assuming only around 50 countries have recognised Kosovo at that stage, an international conference should be convened under the auspices of the UN to devise a strategy for:
- the partition of Kosovo with the north subsumed into Serbia.
- the incorporation of Republika Srpska into Serbia.

3. At this point, Mr Primakov's suggestion of all K-Serbs migrating northwards comes into play. All Serbs wishing to do so should be fully compensated and allocated housing and jobs wherever they choose to settle. This could be managed quite easily and funded by member countries of the UN.

4. Any attempts by the Macedonian Albanians and the Bosnian Croats to capitalise on these developments should not be countenanced. The Croats are already very fortunate to have held onto the Krajina and the Albanians will have gained most of what they wanted in Kosovo.

This is not a perfect scenario and, no doubt, lots of posters will pick holes in it, but it could work. And it is a peaceful approach. It is time that the Serbian nation became a state. The incorporation of North Kosovo and Srpska into Serbia will achieve that while leaving the other ethnic groups with a great deal of their ambitions achieved. Bosnia, of course, would be smaller than it is now but it would also be a lot more secure.

The future of the Serb heritage sites in mid and south Kosovo is one question that will require great imagination.

Nicholas Klinsman

pre 16 godina

Tom, I'm glad you included Republika Srpska in this discussion. Too many people forget about that.

I also think your thoughts here are very pragmatic. Although, I do not see any way to not include the Bosnian Croats wishes in this.

bganon

pre 16 godina

Mr Primakov is not looking at this in terms of what is in peoples best interest. He is looking at it from the point of view of geopolitics, which for him means the game between Russia and the United States.

Perhaps he cares about the plight of the Kosovo Serbs and perhaps not, its not important. For sure the US administration doesn't truly care about Albanians either.

No, I don't have an answer but sometimes its better to admit you don't have an answer to a problem than to advocate a solution. How do you tell people effectively that they should ethnically cleanse themselves and say goodbye to their homes and history that they spent so long building?

Neither Primakov nor Belgrade has the right to tell Kosovo Serbs this.

shqarthi

pre 16 godina

I hope it doesn't come to that. It is their homes. But I also think it will be difficult that they accept to live in an independent Kosovar state. The important thing for them is that the situation is not inflamed even further, until some negotiated solution is found.

Stevan

pre 16 godina

Miri, Dino,

"… Russians … stir … trouble … desperate to create … conflict, even just a little one, just for the sake of it … "

??? What are you talking about? Where are you getting your information, CNN and FOX News? In reality, by all accounts, US is responsible for most of the conflicts in the world in the last 60 years and is correspondingly responsible for the deaths of millions of helpless, innocent civilians in countless, unfortunate, third world countries. No other country in the world comes even close to this tragic American record. If international justice system could work objectively, most of post WWII US administrations and top brass would be sentenced as war criminals.
After the end of The Cold War Russia did shown unbelievable will to compromise and reach some kind of agreement for the permanent peaceful cooperation with a Western world and readiness to pay quite a heavy price for that. West wouldn't have any of it. Instead of using these unique opportunity to develop creative relations, they treated Russia as a defeated adversary and developed strategies for the total destruction of Russia, humiliating it at every occasion they could.

" .. ask the Poles, Czechs etc. … It (Russia) cant preach about US pressure on countries when it bullied countries into signing the Warsaw pact, use it to invade them and slam these countries behind iron curtain…"

Ask South Americans about US "gentle" hand controlling their affairs ... Although most of the US brutality was excercised toward thirld world countries, some times they were not so subtle handling European affairs as well: http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/philip_willan/2008/01/sporchi_trucchi.html
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=16921
Warsaw pact was reaction to NATO.

"… UN will fall and be re-organized into something that resembles the reality in the world… "

You are probably right about falling of the UN, as US did everything they could to undermine this international organization and transform it into yet another instrument of American foreign policy. But they might regret destruction of UN in not too distant future. History didn't end in the nineties as they hoped. Although we in the Balkans didn't notice this yet, American and West European supremacy is weakening. They are loosing technological superiority very fast. Dollar is falling… New regional and global powers are emerging. Americans thought that XXI century would be theirs. Instead of century it might turn out to be 20 years at
most.

Nicholas Klinsman

pre 16 godina

@bad gorilla:

You realize the ethnic composiition of the Presevo valley includes a great deal of Serbs. In fact almost all of Medvedja with the exception of maybe two villages, most of Bujanovac including the town, and even some parts of Presevo have a Serbian majority. Those places could not be a part of such an arrangement.

Delie

pre 16 godina

Loqja, Sure buddy sure. Dino, made me laugh, thanks for your oppinion. Miri, take out the word "Russians", and add KLA and you'll finaly get it right. Laki NY, for now my friend. If that's what you call independent.

Gojko

pre 16 godina

Is Yevgeny Primakov an American spy. Who are you to tell Serbs where to Migrate and live. Serbs are welcome to stay any where they please in their country of Kosovo in Serbia. Serbs don't need an "ally" like you. Russia will stab the Serbs in the back.

village-bey

pre 16 godina

What do you think is this idea (Primakov idea) better than Ahtisari package?
(Tex Willer, 26 March 2008 16:40)
Migrate and Merge sounds to simplistic Tex. If only was that easy. Everyone can come up with ready-cooked meal tittles like that. What about Shake and Stir, I personally think it is more ethical and above all, it sounds better.

The Swiss

pre 16 godina

BEEN A WAR, there has been a systematic STATE ETHNIC CLEANSING. Don't forget these FACTS guys when rushing to conclusions.
(EA, 26 March 2008 20:15)

Oh yes, we too well know what happened the last 10 years, just have to read the today's last report from The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC).
"white" cleansing, yes indeed and we'll not forget these FACTS.

lowe

pre 16 godina

"The future of the Serb heritage sites in mid and south Kosovo is one question that will require great imagination.
(Tom O'Donoghue, 26 March 2008 12:39) "

These historical buildings can be moved north too. The mammoth Abu Simbel site in Egypt was moved to make way for the Aswan Dam and it is probably a hundred times bigger than Decani and other monuments in Kosovo.