Đelić potential candidate for prime minister

DS seems to be very optimistic in regard to coming elections. They won’t make majority in the government that is for sure. After May 11, there will be prime-minister from radical party, I can bet on that. And just to add that government formed by SRS and DSS will make stable government and not that one formed by DS plus tens of small parties’ hardly passing censuses. Of course I would like to see Mr Kostunica as our Premier in the future too, but it is unlikely to happen, thus I am more realistic and believe that Premier is going to be from SRS. Can’t with May 11!

B you wrote

"On the other hand you have a mirror image on the English part of the site packed to the rafters full of 'patriots'.

What I believe most of them do have in common is that many do not live in Serbia.

What is it I ask about moving abroad that causes extremist views in Serbs?"


Are you saying that anyone who rejects Tadic is an extremist?

Or, in the alternative, is it your position that the Diaspora does not understand what is facing Serbs.

I would argue that first position is silly and that this second position is mistaken. I assure you that Serbs in the diaspora can look at a disingenuous western style politician like Tadic and recognize, with considerable authority, that his commitment to Serbia is "A lot of feathers, but not much chicken"

The Irony is that Serbian citizens in Kosovo probably feel that their countrymen in Belgrade do not understand them. If Tadic is elected, they will also be in the Diaspora

My impression is above all is from the Serbian part of the site regarding this story.

Many are angry that Kostunica was allowed to be PM when DS had more votes in the last election and had promised that Djelic would be PM.

They of course imply that they will not vote for DS but will vote for LDP instead or not vote at all.

It is interesting that most of them would rather risk wasting their votes on a candidate that may not make the census and putting SRS / DSS in.

Some of them appear more concerned with score settling than with the good of the country.

On the other hand you have a mirror image on the English part of the site packed to the rafters full of 'patriots'.

What I believe most of them do have in common is that many do not live in Serbia.

What is it I ask about moving abroad that causes extremist views in Serbs?

'Are you saying that anyone who rejects Tadic is an extremist?'

No I'm just stating a fact that LDP is one extreme in the Serbian political system and SRS is the other. Most people in Serbia would agree with that, even if they don't agree with my political view.

Trust me many Kosovo Serbs, Croatian and Bosnian Serbs feel that way about their countrymen in Belgrade. Its a sad fact with no easy answer. The obvious answer is that the country Jugoslavija served these people well and any resentment would not be so present had the country not broken up.

But a question for you. How is it that each headline that has Kosovo in it is hugely visited on the English site but stories about Serbia proper are ignored?

Even if quite a few Serbs can trace their origins to Kosovo I very much doubt this is the case more with English language visitors than with Serbian ones.

We have had time to see both how Tadic and Kostunica have behaved in power yes. We have not seen Nikolic in power so if you are suggesting that he will deliver I would ask you how you can possibly know that?

Oh so its ok to have a nice cosy life abroad but its not ok to choose to live in Belgrade???

bmrusila, shame on you for sticking up for those that leave their country rather than those that choose to remain in it. Patriotism is proven by actions not words.

And shame on me for wanting all of Serbia to have a better life and for supporting the rights of Kosovo Serbs. And shame on me for thinking that it is possible to achieve both.

Shame on me for not shouting loudly enough, not being 'patriotic' enough. Maybe I should be tried for treason.

Of course my life is better than life in Kosovo as a Serb. It is like a prison for them. Thats fact, I don't need to say it every day.

But life abroad is easier than life in Serbia full stop. Many people in Serbia are living in poverty. I hope you will remind people who live abroad of this fact in the same way you reminded me, who lives in Serbia.

Bganon,

Shame on you calling our Diaspora extremists. As Marko pointed out, with Tadic et al, even Serbs in Kosovo will be Diaspora in the near future. But, why would you care when you have nice and cosy life in Belgrade.

Bganon,

I am not siding with those who left the country nor with those who choose to stay, simply I am not siding with anyone and I certainly do not accuse those who choose to leave. The thing is that none of us have right to deprive our Diaspora of having an opinion and I only criticize you for calling them extremists. Having said that "it is easy for you to live nice life in Belgrade" was just a comparison with those Serbs living in Kosovo, whose life is far from nice and cosy, wouldn’t you agree? But shame on me for being non-Diaspora extremist, shame on me for wanting better life and human rights for K-Serbs.

B I am enjoying this discourse, it is healthy to debate, but I largely do not see things the way you do. let me explain.

In your first question you asked "How is it that each headline that has Kosovo in it is hugely visited on the English site but stories about Serbia proper are ignored?"

Before I answer this fair question I would like to clarify something, most Serbs do not see a distinction between Kosovo and Serbia proper. Most Serbs recognise the territorial integrity of the country the live in (or come from).

As far as the attention,
Kosovo is getting a lot of attention because of the crisis there. The crisis is provoking an emotional response throughout Serbia, Europe and the world. This is not caused by extreme nationalism, it is caused by the uncertanty of the situation. The unknown and the unjustice of things is provoking every imaginable emotion in anyone who has an interest in the Balkans.

In your second question you wrote "We have had time to see both how Tadic and Kostunica have behaved in power yes. We have not seen Nikolic in power so if you are suggesting that he will deliver I would ask you how you can possibly know that?"

In answering this question I want to be very specific I offer no warranty on any government elected anywhere.

I also do not endorse one party rule, which is how Mr. Tadic wanted to run the government before it fell; It was Mr. Tadics speaker that did not want parliment to sit and It was Mr. Tadic's cabinet that threatened the parliment not to "interfere" with foriegn policy.

Mr. Tadic started to ignore the action plan that he co wrote because he won the presidental election.

What I would like to see In Serbia, if you are asking (feel free to ignore the rest), Is a solid coalition that sticks to its priorities: the defense of its borders, Economy, and law and Order.

Serbs are not being offered "a man for all seasons in this election"
Mr. Nikolic is only concerned with the borders and law and order. Mr. Tadic is concerned with the Economy and law and order. I think Kostunica could bring credibility to the government and put pressure on the government to appreciate all three problems, but he is not being courted by either party.

Well, bganon, really what gives you right to claim over here that only you want better life for entire Serbia? Do you actually think that I wouldn’t like better life for all of us? Don’t you think our Diaspora would like better lives for all in Serbia?
But, you are not right when saying that we can have both. Both what? Do you really think that our lives are going to improve dramatically after joining the EU or while waiting in queue for the full membership? Please, tell me in what way our lives would improve.

And this is typical respond from DS supporters (LDP supporters are a bit worse)
“Maybe I should be tried for treason. “ Or using patriotism as something bad and primitive”.

You don’t have to shout out loud, I can perfectly read and hear :)). You and me just have different views on patriotism, or better to say we experience it in different way. Perhaps you are more moderate then I but am certainly not extremist. Maybe it is personal character that makes us feel things differently.

When it comes to living abroad ( but of course only in certain countries) in comparison to Serbia, I can only agree on that. There is no dispute on that. It is easier because the countries are wealthier. It is easy to live in wealthy and socially arranged country. But still why I would have to remind anyone over here on that. I am sure that our Diaspora is fully aware of this fact. Our Diaspora and some of us here (ex DS supporters) are wondering what is the prise that we have to pay for the EU and what would the EU membership drastically change in Serbia. Don’t you think that we are bright enough to arrange our country as best as we can and the best suits us? Don’t you think that we can raise our living standard without EU? I think we can and we must because we have very clever people capable of delivering better life to Serbia.

Marko Yes I too enjoy the debate although I am a little angered by the thoughtless views of some - that I mentioned earlier, on both sides of the debate. It also upsets me that I know for a fact that some on 'our' side sit back and let our extremists (yes we do have them like everybody else) get away with saying stupid things. Sometimes its good to challenge and I am the type to shut up.

But in the end I don't vote with anger or with my gut, I just use the grey cells.

Back to the issue. Of course most Serbs don't see the difference between K and S. Lets not waste time stating a fact we both accept. The point is a story about K is something worth commenting on but S which includes K and the rest of entire Serbia is of minor interest. Why? That is my question. To some degree you can say because of independence, but if you have been here for a long time you will know that K was always a more popular subject than S.

I disagree with your assessment of the former government. If Tadic wanted to run the government he would never have let Kostunica be Prime Minister. It is a fact that Kostunica had less votes in the election and even though his view was in a minority in government he wanted to bulldoze his views on the rest of government. It is upto the government to take decisions and for parliament to vote on them. Parliament does not decide policy. If it did there would be no need for government.

You mentioned the action plan. Equally valid point is the 5 principles on which the whole governing parties agreed to abide by. One of those principles was to move forward with European integration - no mention of tying the issue to Kosovo. DSS broke this agreement, whether they broke it for valid reasons or not is a matter of opinion but they broke it nonetheless.

Kostunica is not being courted by either party but his rhetoric against DS is reaching fever pitch and yet he wants to have his cake and eat it and will not rule out a coalition with DS post election. His price? To be Prime Minister again perhaps?
I'm afraid I was a supporter of so called DS / DSS cohabitation, but am no longer.

'Do you actually think that I wouldn’t like better life for all of us?'

Yes in theory I think you would want that, but in reality you know that a SRS / DSS government will mean a poorer Serbia. It might be ok for people like us but others will suffer. To be clear I'm not saying it will be like under Milosevic, but I'm convinced that we will be worst off under SRS / DSS than under DS.

I hope that our diaspora feel that way, but I get the feeling that since they will not be affected by increased poverty it is easier for them to scream 'Kosovo is Serbia' without thinking how that will affect the average person in Serbia.

bmrusila you 'provoke' me into making patriotic statements and if my reaction is typical of DS supporters then I'd say your obsession with telling me how bad it is for Kosovo Serbs (as if I don't know) is typical of SRS / DSS. I don't need to be convinced and I don't need to say something a thousand times as many uber patriots seem to feel they have to. As I said patriotism is action, not cheap talk.

You don't have to remind the diaspora of the bad situation in Serbia, but you feel fit to remind me of the situation in Kosovo, explain that please?

If you see fit to 'protect' Kosovo Serbs against Serbs in Belgrade on the basis of their being worse off in life, then I expect your protection on the basis of being worse off than those living in the UK or US.

And yes I'd also like for you to go over to the Serbian side of the site and lecture our LDP diaspora as well, instead of giving me a hard time! Its particularly sad, when in principle our views are not so different.

Its not EU membership or not now. Its whether SRS / DSS can bring us greater benefit or whether DS can. Its a straight choice.

My impression is above all is from the Serbian part of the site regarding this story.

Many are angry that Kostunica was allowed to be PM when DS had more votes in the last election and had promised that Djelic would be PM.

They of course imply that they will not vote for DS but will vote for LDP instead or not vote at all.

It is interesting that most of them would rather risk wasting their votes on a candidate that may not make the census and putting SRS / DSS in.

Some of them appear more concerned with score settling than with the good of the country.

On the other hand you have a mirror image on the English part of the site packed to the rafters full of 'patriots'.

What I believe most of them do have in common is that many do not live in Serbia.

What is it I ask about moving abroad that causes extremist views in Serbs?

DS seems to be very optimistic in regard to coming elections. They won’t make majority in the government that is for sure. After May 11, there will be prime-minister from radical party, I can bet on that. And just to add that government formed by SRS and DSS will make stable government and not that one formed by DS plus tens of small parties’ hardly passing censuses. Of course I would like to see Mr Kostunica as our Premier in the future too, but it is unlikely to happen, thus I am more realistic and believe that Premier is going to be from SRS. Can’t with May 11!

B you wrote

"On the other hand you have a mirror image on the English part of the site packed to the rafters full of 'patriots'.

What I believe most of them do have in common is that many do not live in Serbia.

What is it I ask about moving abroad that causes extremist views in Serbs?"


Are you saying that anyone who rejects Tadic is an extremist?

Or, in the alternative, is it your position that the Diaspora does not understand what is facing Serbs.

I would argue that first position is silly and that this second position is mistaken. I assure you that Serbs in the diaspora can look at a disingenuous western style politician like Tadic and recognize, with considerable authority, that his commitment to Serbia is "A lot of feathers, but not much chicken"

The Irony is that Serbian citizens in Kosovo probably feel that their countrymen in Belgrade do not understand them. If Tadic is elected, they will also be in the Diaspora

'Are you saying that anyone who rejects Tadic is an extremist?'

No I'm just stating a fact that LDP is one extreme in the Serbian political system and SRS is the other. Most people in Serbia would agree with that, even if they don't agree with my political view.

Trust me many Kosovo Serbs, Croatian and Bosnian Serbs feel that way about their countrymen in Belgrade. Its a sad fact with no easy answer. The obvious answer is that the country Jugoslavija served these people well and any resentment would not be so present had the country not broken up.

But a question for you. How is it that each headline that has Kosovo in it is hugely visited on the English site but stories about Serbia proper are ignored?

Even if quite a few Serbs can trace their origins to Kosovo I very much doubt this is the case more with English language visitors than with Serbian ones.

We have had time to see both how Tadic and Kostunica have behaved in power yes. We have not seen Nikolic in power so if you are suggesting that he will deliver I would ask you how you can possibly know that?

Bganon,

Shame on you calling our Diaspora extremists. As Marko pointed out, with Tadic et al, even Serbs in Kosovo will be Diaspora in the near future. But, why would you care when you have nice and cosy life in Belgrade.

Oh so its ok to have a nice cosy life abroad but its not ok to choose to live in Belgrade???

bmrusila, shame on you for sticking up for those that leave their country rather than those that choose to remain in it. Patriotism is proven by actions not words.

Bganon,

I am not siding with those who left the country nor with those who choose to stay, simply I am not siding with anyone and I certainly do not accuse those who choose to leave. The thing is that none of us have right to deprive our Diaspora of having an opinion and I only criticize you for calling them extremists. Having said that "it is easy for you to live nice life in Belgrade" was just a comparison with those Serbs living in Kosovo, whose life is far from nice and cosy, wouldn’t you agree? But shame on me for being non-Diaspora extremist, shame on me for wanting better life and human rights for K-Serbs.

And shame on me for wanting all of Serbia to have a better life and for supporting the rights of Kosovo Serbs. And shame on me for thinking that it is possible to achieve both.

Shame on me for not shouting loudly enough, not being 'patriotic' enough. Maybe I should be tried for treason.

Of course my life is better than life in Kosovo as a Serb. It is like a prison for them. Thats fact, I don't need to say it every day.

But life abroad is easier than life in Serbia full stop. Many people in Serbia are living in poverty. I hope you will remind people who live abroad of this fact in the same way you reminded me, who lives in Serbia.

B I am enjoying this discourse, it is healthy to debate, but I largely do not see things the way you do. let me explain.

In your first question you asked "How is it that each headline that has Kosovo in it is hugely visited on the English site but stories about Serbia proper are ignored?"

Before I answer this fair question I would like to clarify something, most Serbs do not see a distinction between Kosovo and Serbia proper. Most Serbs recognise the territorial integrity of the country the live in (or come from).

As far as the attention,
Kosovo is getting a lot of attention because of the crisis there. The crisis is provoking an emotional response throughout Serbia, Europe and the world. This is not caused by extreme nationalism, it is caused by the uncertanty of the situation. The unknown and the unjustice of things is provoking every imaginable emotion in anyone who has an interest in the Balkans.

In your second question you wrote "We have had time to see both how Tadic and Kostunica have behaved in power yes. We have not seen Nikolic in power so if you are suggesting that he will deliver I would ask you how you can possibly know that?"

In answering this question I want to be very specific I offer no warranty on any government elected anywhere.

I also do not endorse one party rule, which is how Mr. Tadic wanted to run the government before it fell; It was Mr. Tadics speaker that did not want parliment to sit and It was Mr. Tadic's cabinet that threatened the parliment not to "interfere" with foriegn policy.

Mr. Tadic started to ignore the action plan that he co wrote because he won the presidental election.

What I would like to see In Serbia, if you are asking (feel free to ignore the rest), Is a solid coalition that sticks to its priorities: the defense of its borders, Economy, and law and Order.

Serbs are not being offered "a man for all seasons in this election"
Mr. Nikolic is only concerned with the borders and law and order. Mr. Tadic is concerned with the Economy and law and order. I think Kostunica could bring credibility to the government and put pressure on the government to appreciate all three problems, but he is not being courted by either party.

Well, bganon, really what gives you right to claim over here that only you want better life for entire Serbia? Do you actually think that I wouldn’t like better life for all of us? Don’t you think our Diaspora would like better lives for all in Serbia?
But, you are not right when saying that we can have both. Both what? Do you really think that our lives are going to improve dramatically after joining the EU or while waiting in queue for the full membership? Please, tell me in what way our lives would improve.

And this is typical respond from DS supporters (LDP supporters are a bit worse)
“Maybe I should be tried for treason. “ Or using patriotism as something bad and primitive”.

You don’t have to shout out loud, I can perfectly read and hear :)). You and me just have different views on patriotism, or better to say we experience it in different way. Perhaps you are more moderate then I but am certainly not extremist. Maybe it is personal character that makes us feel things differently.

When it comes to living abroad ( but of course only in certain countries) in comparison to Serbia, I can only agree on that. There is no dispute on that. It is easier because the countries are wealthier. It is easy to live in wealthy and socially arranged country. But still why I would have to remind anyone over here on that. I am sure that our Diaspora is fully aware of this fact. Our Diaspora and some of us here (ex DS supporters) are wondering what is the prise that we have to pay for the EU and what would the EU membership drastically change in Serbia. Don’t you think that we are bright enough to arrange our country as best as we can and the best suits us? Don’t you think that we can raise our living standard without EU? I think we can and we must because we have very clever people capable of delivering better life to Serbia.

Marko Yes I too enjoy the debate although I am a little angered by the thoughtless views of some - that I mentioned earlier, on both sides of the debate. It also upsets me that I know for a fact that some on 'our' side sit back and let our extremists (yes we do have them like everybody else) get away with saying stupid things. Sometimes its good to challenge and I am the type to shut up.

But in the end I don't vote with anger or with my gut, I just use the grey cells.

Back to the issue. Of course most Serbs don't see the difference between K and S. Lets not waste time stating a fact we both accept. The point is a story about K is something worth commenting on but S which includes K and the rest of entire Serbia is of minor interest. Why? That is my question. To some degree you can say because of independence, but if you have been here for a long time you will know that K was always a more popular subject than S.

I disagree with your assessment of the former government. If Tadic wanted to run the government he would never have let Kostunica be Prime Minister. It is a fact that Kostunica had less votes in the election and even though his view was in a minority in government he wanted to bulldoze his views on the rest of government. It is upto the government to take decisions and for parliament to vote on them. Parliament does not decide policy. If it did there would be no need for government.

You mentioned the action plan. Equally valid point is the 5 principles on which the whole governing parties agreed to abide by. One of those principles was to move forward with European integration - no mention of tying the issue to Kosovo. DSS broke this agreement, whether they broke it for valid reasons or not is a matter of opinion but they broke it nonetheless.

Kostunica is not being courted by either party but his rhetoric against DS is reaching fever pitch and yet he wants to have his cake and eat it and will not rule out a coalition with DS post election. His price? To be Prime Minister again perhaps?
I'm afraid I was a supporter of so called DS / DSS cohabitation, but am no longer.

'Do you actually think that I wouldn’t like better life for all of us?'

Yes in theory I think you would want that, but in reality you know that a SRS / DSS government will mean a poorer Serbia. It might be ok for people like us but others will suffer. To be clear I'm not saying it will be like under Milosevic, but I'm convinced that we will be worst off under SRS / DSS than under DS.

I hope that our diaspora feel that way, but I get the feeling that since they will not be affected by increased poverty it is easier for them to scream 'Kosovo is Serbia' without thinking how that will affect the average person in Serbia.

bmrusila you 'provoke' me into making patriotic statements and if my reaction is typical of DS supporters then I'd say your obsession with telling me how bad it is for Kosovo Serbs (as if I don't know) is typical of SRS / DSS. I don't need to be convinced and I don't need to say something a thousand times as many uber patriots seem to feel they have to. As I said patriotism is action, not cheap talk.

You don't have to remind the diaspora of the bad situation in Serbia, but you feel fit to remind me of the situation in Kosovo, explain that please?

If you see fit to 'protect' Kosovo Serbs against Serbs in Belgrade on the basis of their being worse off in life, then I expect your protection on the basis of being worse off than those living in the UK or US.

And yes I'd also like for you to go over to the Serbian side of the site and lecture our LDP diaspora as well, instead of giving me a hard time! Its particularly sad, when in principle our views are not so different.

Its not EU membership or not now. Its whether SRS / DSS can bring us greater benefit or whether DS can. Its a straight choice.