24

Friday, 21.03.2008.

16:08

"Pressure on Islamic countries to recognize"

Vuk Jeremić says countries backing Kosovo independence are pressuring the region and the Islamic world to recognize.

Izvor: Tanjug

"Pressure on Islamic countries to recognize" IMAGE SOURCE
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24 Komentari

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BKK

pre 16 godina

Some rather poorly researched comments coming from Albanians here.

If you are to look back, Serbia has traditionally had excellent relations with Islamic countries as well as African countries. This dates back in the time of Tito.

As far as Kosovo recognition goes, the problem arose when USA and EU counted on Islamic countries to recognize Kosovo right away in their gratitude to the West for creating a Muslim state in Europe. That was to be followed by the West sealing the deal with their recognition and that would be the end of their Kosovo problem.
Hence Afghanistan recognizing Kosovo first - of course American prompted, but it illustrates the point.

When Islamic countries did not recognise Kosovo, each for their own reasons, USA has seen that pressure needs to be exerted, so they sent their agent Turkey to do the job.

Unfortunately for the Turks and the Americans, Islamic association was not swayed, the issue was quickly dismissed and as organisation ICO will not recognise Kosovo but each state to their own, and the main point of conversation continued to be Palestine and wars around Middle East.

There are few things which we need to consider - one, countries such as Libya and Al-Gaddafi who has a honorary degree at University of Megatrend in Belgrade, may refuse recognition on the bases of the fact that they care for Serbian relations more than they for Albanian.
Other countries, such as Iran will simply not like to have American quasi state so close to their own land.
Other countries will be trilled to be doing whatever they can against to make America's life miserable and more difficult, no matter how small.

This is not Serbs begging Muslim countries to do anything - its simply recuperating the good old relations.

DimTuc

pre 16 godina

"as far as I know Bangladesh is a recognized country within the United Nations. However, Kosovo won't be under the current circumstances."

Following the Bengali uprising in 1971, and India's massive armed intervention on their side the end of that year, it took until 1974 for Bangladesh to enter the UN, due to China's veto on the UN Security Council. China's veto I guesss made Bangladesh "illegal"

For me, the Chinese veto on Bangladesh, the Russian veto on Kosova and the US veto on Palestine are factors that must be taken nto account due to the practical efects of them, but don't give me too many moral sermons about the alleged "legality" or otherwise flowing from such decisions of the those 5 with the right to rule the world.

une

pre 16 godina

How funny that when they fought the albanians they were muslim terrorists. Now they are begging the Ilsmic nations not to recognise them. How funny. Two faced propaganda. Soon Kosova will be a UN member

jeton

pre 16 godina

This future is based firmly in Europe, as Croatia, Hungary and Bulgaria have all already understood, and not with Russia, a country that offered its own unique “humanitarian aid” to Eastern Europe for fifty year with catastrophic consequences.

afrim hoxha

pre 16 godina

Until now Serbia was accusing Kosovars of being islamic terrorists, but now we see that it is in fact the serb government who has connections with the islamic countries, not Kosova.

Finally the serbs unmasked their own connections with the islamic countries, therefore they unmasked their policital aim also for trying to say to the world that the kosovars are with islamic terrorists.
The overwhelming majority that accepted Kosova so far are western european countries.
I hope that the posters who post here see the reality and see who has connections with the islamic countries and who has connections with western christian countries.

Randy McDonald

pre 16 godina

"Thanks for your polite response Randy."

No problem, and you yours. There's really no point in talking if all we'll be doing is flaming at each other, is there? ;-)

"I'm not surprised that a # of westerners have this opinion. However, geopolitics have not gone away in Europe, they've only gone underground temporarily. When it resurfaces we will know more about Serbia's importance."

While I found a lot to disagree with in Parag Khanna's _The Second World,_ I do think that he's right to posit that a dominant position in Europe is something that the European Union would have to lose. Russia is the only plausible contender, but it lacks the muscle and the ideological appeal that would let it compete effectively. If even the Russophiles in Ukraine want that country to join the European Union ...

My notes about the relatively poor performance of Serbia's governments, particularly compared to Bulgaria, are inspired by links like the two below

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=events.event_summary&event_id=102361

http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/08/02/ppp_en/

"I'm not sure where you live,"

Toronto, Canada.

"but as an American I have no room to comment on effective governements since there hasn't been one in the U.S. for the better part of 20 years."

Serbia and Bulgaria in 1989-1991 era were both countries facing significant problems vis-a-vis their economy and, indirectly, their Muslim populations. Bulgaria even began mass deportations of its Muslim populations in 1989, long before anything comparable started in the SFRY. Bulgaria's government stepped back, stopped, tried to make recompense, and adopted fairly sane policies. Serbia did the exact opposite until recently, even though it was Serbia that started off with the advantages. Serbia needs politicians who aren't capable of messing up so badly.

PJD:

"The Bangladesh comparison is not a good one as it was then East Pakistan and separated from West Pakistan by the width of India."

The geographic separation is an issue--clearly Pakistan and the future Bangladesh had no shared land frontiers, and the population ratios are somewhat different--but Bangladesh did have the same historical importance to Pakistan that Kosovo has to Serbia. Pakistan only came into existence because certain Indian Muslim leaders argued that the British Raj contained two nations, one Hindu and one Muslim, and that each of these nations needed its own state if it was to survive. Pakistani leaders found it terribly difficult to deal with the secession of a province that decisively disproved the idea of a unified Islamic Pakistan. The humiliation of Pakistan's defeat in 1971 arguably led that country down the nuclear weapons-making and Islamism-sponsoring route that it has been taking to this day.

azir

pre 16 godina

In the second round of Kosova's international independence campaign, all the Islamic countries should show unity in supporting and recognizing as a block,en mass.Any country not supporting us is not really free themselves.There is not pressure, we Albanians just expect every country to do the right thing,that's all.

The Swiss

pre 16 godina

Kosovo is a unique case but so is Bangladesh, Taiwan, Northern Cyprus. So Kosovo isn't unique by being unique.
(PJD, 21 March 2008 23:26)

No No, Kosovo is a unique case, who else can claim to be run by recognized criminals and deal in drug, arms, organs and human trafficking, it is indeed a unique case!!
What else can US and EU offer other than a stick to the countries that will not recon this puppet state, not much!

PJD

pre 16 godina

albi, Serbia's economy is and has been growing quicker than Albania's for many years now. Russia's economy is growing very fast.

Mr. Athanasi:
"the opinion of the Serbs (at least of those who post in B92) has been that Kosovo Albanians are muslim terrorists."

This is what is known as a "straw man argument" based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. The KLA were/are terrorists, but the K-Alb population in general no.

The Bangladesh comparison is not a good one as it was then East Pakistan and separated from West Pakistan by the width of India. At the time East Pakistan had a larger population as well, but all the levers of power were in the west. Bangladesh certainly had no historical importance to Pakistan that Kosovo has to Serbia.

Kosovo is a unique case but so is Bangladesh, Taiwan, Northern Cyprus. So Kosovo isn't unique by being unique.

lazer, nyc, usa

pre 16 godina

My estimate, never mind what Jeremic thinks, come August and September of this 2008 A.D., Kosovo will be voted in as a full UN Member.
Only a handful of countries will not have recognized it by that time. I can also name them with 100% accuracy.
Although I would like those countries recognize it, its not going to make a big difference. There are also countries out there that will not recognize Kosovo as an Independent country even if Serbia recognized it, tomorow.
As for some politicians in Serbia, future brings a lot of hardship, lets see how it evolves.

Nicholas Klinsman

pre 16 godina

Thanks for your polite response Randy

You said, "Fortunately, much less is at stake. There is no Russian-European cold war and Serbia is a minor state more notable for bad government than anything else. Serbia just doesn't weigh that heavily."

I'm not surprised that a # of westerners have this opinion. However, geopolitics have not gone away in Europe, they've only gone underground temporarily. When it resurfaces we will know more about Serbia's importance.

Obviously I disagree with you that Serbia is most noted for bad government. I'm not sure where you live, but as an American I have no room to comment on effective governements since there hasn't been one in the U.S. for the better part of 20 years.

BalkanUpdate

pre 16 godina

So much for Kosovo being a project of pan Islamic countries.
Another Serbian propaganda falls right on its tracks. I wonder how they are going to spin this one. Anybody?

Randy McDonald

pre 16 godina

"The 1970's was the height of the Cold War. We both know the world changed after 1991. Up until recently the U.S. could do whatever it wanted for good or bad."

Back in 1971 the United States was stronger than the Soviet Union and China was stronger than India. What happened in Bangladesh, though, didn't have much to do with those balances of power.

The United States and Europe aren't doing exactly what they want, true. If they were, everyone would have recognized Kosovo by now.

"Unfortunately, in Kosovo it made the wrong choice."

I won't ask why since I'm afraid I already know the answer.

"The point is that hostilities or not countries are hesitant about this."

Yes, and this was the case was Bangladesh. Many people were wary about the global consequences of Bangladesh's independence. What would the loss of half of Pakistan do to the balance of power in South Asia and the wider world?

Fortunately, much less is at stake. There is no Russian-European cold war and Serbia is a minor state more notable for bad government than anything else. Serbia just doesn't weigh that heavily.

"also, as far as I know Bangladesh is a recognized country within the United Nations."

It is. It took three years before Pakistan and China recognized Bangladeshi independence, but it did eventually happen.

However, Kosovo won't be under the current circumstances.

albi

pre 16 godina

"Worth noting that only 5 of the 57 states in the OIC have expressed support for Pristina's UDI."

I don't know why I bother replying to things like this, but don't Serbs and their followers always claim that Kosovo is a "muslim" entity?

I'm sure that's not what Jeremic says when he talks to the OIC foreign minsters.

You have to face it: Serbs has switched roles with Albanians. With the end of communism Albanians are now open to the west and to the world, getting more prosperous each day, while Serbia looks to Russia, Iran, and their Arab allies for support. Just the way to go, keep it up.

Mr. Athanasi

pre 16 godina

It is very interesting how the Serbs now praise the Muslims for not recognizing Kosovo (yet), when they always call them terrorists. In fact, the opinion of the Serbs (at least of those who post in B92) has been that Kosovo Albanians are muslim terrorists. I can guarantee 99.9% that as soon as the Muslim countries recognize Kosovo, the Serbs will say "of course they recognized it. it's their fellow terrorist men".

Nicholas Klinsman

pre 16 godina

Bangladesh and Kosovo comaprison: This is a different time and a different continent Randy.

The 1970's was the height of the Cold War. We both know the world changed after 1991. Up until recently the U.S. could do whatever it wanted for good or bad. Unfortunately, in Kosovo it made the wrong choice. The point is that hostilities or not countries are hesitant about this.

also, as far as I know Bangladesh is a recognized country within the United Nations. However, Kosovo won't be under the current circumstances.

Luigi

pre 16 godina

It's quite clear that if the recognition will eventually arrive from Arab league countries and from some countries from Latin and Central America kosovo will be a state and Serbia will be defeted ...for now we can only say that mayority of Europe has recognized ...

ben

pre 16 godina

strange for a "Muslim" country as Kosova to be reciognized almost exclusively by Christian countries.

Only subsequently to "pressure" the Islamic countries ;)

P.S. Ahmedinejad said that Iran will not recognize kosova- one of the pillars of the International law and Order toghether with Serbia and Russia (the one to whom you cannot make any pressure) ;)Germany, France, Japan an easy task ;))

Randy McDonald

pre 16 godina

"The fact that the vast majority of countries are not recognizing Kosovo should show everyone that we've moved into a different phase of the new world order since 1991."

Quite the contrary.

1. In 1971-2, after an Indian military force removed Bangladesh from Pakistani authority and allowed the country to declare independence, 70 countries recognized Bangladesh to May 1972.

2. This year, after Kosovo declared its independence following NATO intervention, thirty countries recognized Kosovo in a little more than one month.

Which country is doing better at this point? Kosovo is facing some hostility from the powers that be, but so did Bangladesh.

I'd be inclined to call it a tie. I'd also be inclined to bet that Islamic countries will constitute the next major bloc of countries recognizing Kosovo.

EA

pre 16 godina

“Some of Serbia’s neighbors have not been able to resist that pressure."

Does he mean these countries were "under duress"?)))

He is "touching" countries hearts and pride of their inablilty to be make independent decisions. And do you know why? Because they don't think like Serbian government think.

Interesting eh?))

That is another Serbian theory....more too come))

Niall O'Doherty

pre 16 godina

Bravo Mr Jeremic,

I must compliment you on doing a good job for Serbia. I am not surprised at the diplomatic offence (pressure, intimidation, threats, bribery, corecion) being experienced by many African and Asian states whether they be Muslim, Christian, Buddhist etc. Greece is under severe pressure right now to tow the line.

Saudi Arabia, a US ally is most likely behind the threats towards many of the OIC states. It is encouraging that Libya, Algeria, Morrocco, Egypt, Indonesia, Singapore, Sudan, Tunisia, Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Uzbekhistan, Mali, Mauritania and Syria have in recent days confirmed their support for Serbia or expressed serious reservations about the recent developments and their implications for international law.

Well done Mr Jeremic. It seems Washington may have to up the threats and blackmail even more.

Worth noting that only 5 of the 57 states in the OIC have expressed support for Pristina's UDI.

Nicholas Klinsman

pre 16 godina

You bet they're pressing other countries to recognize Kosovo. Their credibility as the world's leaders is on the line.

The fact that the vast majority of countries are not recognizing Kosovo should show everyone that we've moved into a different phase of the new world order since 1991.

When things go wrong the White House will not be able to just say, we were in agreement with most everyone else in the world.

Marko

pre 16 godina

When Mr. Jeremic's boss officially abandons Kosovo, Jeremic and many other Serbs will feel quite betrayed. Mr. Jeremic is a world class intellectual, but why did he back the wrong horse. Tadic and the DS is not what Serbia needs.

I wish Jeremic will continue to apply his considerable skill and talents to assure Serbia's dignity, but I don't know how that will be possible in cooperation with Tadic

EA

pre 16 godina

“Some of Serbia’s neighbors have not been able to resist that pressure."

Does he mean these countries were "under duress"?)))

He is "touching" countries hearts and pride of their inablilty to be make independent decisions. And do you know why? Because they don't think like Serbian government think.

Interesting eh?))

That is another Serbian theory....more too come))

Niall O'Doherty

pre 16 godina

Bravo Mr Jeremic,

I must compliment you on doing a good job for Serbia. I am not surprised at the diplomatic offence (pressure, intimidation, threats, bribery, corecion) being experienced by many African and Asian states whether they be Muslim, Christian, Buddhist etc. Greece is under severe pressure right now to tow the line.

Saudi Arabia, a US ally is most likely behind the threats towards many of the OIC states. It is encouraging that Libya, Algeria, Morrocco, Egypt, Indonesia, Singapore, Sudan, Tunisia, Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Uzbekhistan, Mali, Mauritania and Syria have in recent days confirmed their support for Serbia or expressed serious reservations about the recent developments and their implications for international law.

Well done Mr Jeremic. It seems Washington may have to up the threats and blackmail even more.

Worth noting that only 5 of the 57 states in the OIC have expressed support for Pristina's UDI.

Mr. Athanasi

pre 16 godina

It is very interesting how the Serbs now praise the Muslims for not recognizing Kosovo (yet), when they always call them terrorists. In fact, the opinion of the Serbs (at least of those who post in B92) has been that Kosovo Albanians are muslim terrorists. I can guarantee 99.9% that as soon as the Muslim countries recognize Kosovo, the Serbs will say "of course they recognized it. it's their fellow terrorist men".

Nicholas Klinsman

pre 16 godina

You bet they're pressing other countries to recognize Kosovo. Their credibility as the world's leaders is on the line.

The fact that the vast majority of countries are not recognizing Kosovo should show everyone that we've moved into a different phase of the new world order since 1991.

When things go wrong the White House will not be able to just say, we were in agreement with most everyone else in the world.

Marko

pre 16 godina

When Mr. Jeremic's boss officially abandons Kosovo, Jeremic and many other Serbs will feel quite betrayed. Mr. Jeremic is a world class intellectual, but why did he back the wrong horse. Tadic and the DS is not what Serbia needs.

I wish Jeremic will continue to apply his considerable skill and talents to assure Serbia's dignity, but I don't know how that will be possible in cooperation with Tadic

Nicholas Klinsman

pre 16 godina

Bangladesh and Kosovo comaprison: This is a different time and a different continent Randy.

The 1970's was the height of the Cold War. We both know the world changed after 1991. Up until recently the U.S. could do whatever it wanted for good or bad. Unfortunately, in Kosovo it made the wrong choice. The point is that hostilities or not countries are hesitant about this.

also, as far as I know Bangladesh is a recognized country within the United Nations. However, Kosovo won't be under the current circumstances.

Luigi

pre 16 godina

It's quite clear that if the recognition will eventually arrive from Arab league countries and from some countries from Latin and Central America kosovo will be a state and Serbia will be defeted ...for now we can only say that mayority of Europe has recognized ...

ben

pre 16 godina

strange for a "Muslim" country as Kosova to be reciognized almost exclusively by Christian countries.

Only subsequently to "pressure" the Islamic countries ;)

P.S. Ahmedinejad said that Iran will not recognize kosova- one of the pillars of the International law and Order toghether with Serbia and Russia (the one to whom you cannot make any pressure) ;)Germany, France, Japan an easy task ;))

albi

pre 16 godina

"Worth noting that only 5 of the 57 states in the OIC have expressed support for Pristina's UDI."

I don't know why I bother replying to things like this, but don't Serbs and their followers always claim that Kosovo is a "muslim" entity?

I'm sure that's not what Jeremic says when he talks to the OIC foreign minsters.

You have to face it: Serbs has switched roles with Albanians. With the end of communism Albanians are now open to the west and to the world, getting more prosperous each day, while Serbia looks to Russia, Iran, and their Arab allies for support. Just the way to go, keep it up.

Randy McDonald

pre 16 godina

"The fact that the vast majority of countries are not recognizing Kosovo should show everyone that we've moved into a different phase of the new world order since 1991."

Quite the contrary.

1. In 1971-2, after an Indian military force removed Bangladesh from Pakistani authority and allowed the country to declare independence, 70 countries recognized Bangladesh to May 1972.

2. This year, after Kosovo declared its independence following NATO intervention, thirty countries recognized Kosovo in a little more than one month.

Which country is doing better at this point? Kosovo is facing some hostility from the powers that be, but so did Bangladesh.

I'd be inclined to call it a tie. I'd also be inclined to bet that Islamic countries will constitute the next major bloc of countries recognizing Kosovo.

Nicholas Klinsman

pre 16 godina

Thanks for your polite response Randy

You said, "Fortunately, much less is at stake. There is no Russian-European cold war and Serbia is a minor state more notable for bad government than anything else. Serbia just doesn't weigh that heavily."

I'm not surprised that a # of westerners have this opinion. However, geopolitics have not gone away in Europe, they've only gone underground temporarily. When it resurfaces we will know more about Serbia's importance.

Obviously I disagree with you that Serbia is most noted for bad government. I'm not sure where you live, but as an American I have no room to comment on effective governements since there hasn't been one in the U.S. for the better part of 20 years.

Randy McDonald

pre 16 godina

"The 1970's was the height of the Cold War. We both know the world changed after 1991. Up until recently the U.S. could do whatever it wanted for good or bad."

Back in 1971 the United States was stronger than the Soviet Union and China was stronger than India. What happened in Bangladesh, though, didn't have much to do with those balances of power.

The United States and Europe aren't doing exactly what they want, true. If they were, everyone would have recognized Kosovo by now.

"Unfortunately, in Kosovo it made the wrong choice."

I won't ask why since I'm afraid I already know the answer.

"The point is that hostilities or not countries are hesitant about this."

Yes, and this was the case was Bangladesh. Many people were wary about the global consequences of Bangladesh's independence. What would the loss of half of Pakistan do to the balance of power in South Asia and the wider world?

Fortunately, much less is at stake. There is no Russian-European cold war and Serbia is a minor state more notable for bad government than anything else. Serbia just doesn't weigh that heavily.

"also, as far as I know Bangladesh is a recognized country within the United Nations."

It is. It took three years before Pakistan and China recognized Bangladeshi independence, but it did eventually happen.

However, Kosovo won't be under the current circumstances.

PJD

pre 16 godina

albi, Serbia's economy is and has been growing quicker than Albania's for many years now. Russia's economy is growing very fast.

Mr. Athanasi:
"the opinion of the Serbs (at least of those who post in B92) has been that Kosovo Albanians are muslim terrorists."

This is what is known as a "straw man argument" based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. The KLA were/are terrorists, but the K-Alb population in general no.

The Bangladesh comparison is not a good one as it was then East Pakistan and separated from West Pakistan by the width of India. At the time East Pakistan had a larger population as well, but all the levers of power were in the west. Bangladesh certainly had no historical importance to Pakistan that Kosovo has to Serbia.

Kosovo is a unique case but so is Bangladesh, Taiwan, Northern Cyprus. So Kosovo isn't unique by being unique.

lazer, nyc, usa

pre 16 godina

My estimate, never mind what Jeremic thinks, come August and September of this 2008 A.D., Kosovo will be voted in as a full UN Member.
Only a handful of countries will not have recognized it by that time. I can also name them with 100% accuracy.
Although I would like those countries recognize it, its not going to make a big difference. There are also countries out there that will not recognize Kosovo as an Independent country even if Serbia recognized it, tomorow.
As for some politicians in Serbia, future brings a lot of hardship, lets see how it evolves.

une

pre 16 godina

How funny that when they fought the albanians they were muslim terrorists. Now they are begging the Ilsmic nations not to recognise them. How funny. Two faced propaganda. Soon Kosova will be a UN member

azir

pre 16 godina

In the second round of Kosova's international independence campaign, all the Islamic countries should show unity in supporting and recognizing as a block,en mass.Any country not supporting us is not really free themselves.There is not pressure, we Albanians just expect every country to do the right thing,that's all.

jeton

pre 16 godina

This future is based firmly in Europe, as Croatia, Hungary and Bulgaria have all already understood, and not with Russia, a country that offered its own unique “humanitarian aid” to Eastern Europe for fifty year with catastrophic consequences.

BalkanUpdate

pre 16 godina

So much for Kosovo being a project of pan Islamic countries.
Another Serbian propaganda falls right on its tracks. I wonder how they are going to spin this one. Anybody?

afrim hoxha

pre 16 godina

Until now Serbia was accusing Kosovars of being islamic terrorists, but now we see that it is in fact the serb government who has connections with the islamic countries, not Kosova.

Finally the serbs unmasked their own connections with the islamic countries, therefore they unmasked their policital aim also for trying to say to the world that the kosovars are with islamic terrorists.
The overwhelming majority that accepted Kosova so far are western european countries.
I hope that the posters who post here see the reality and see who has connections with the islamic countries and who has connections with western christian countries.

BKK

pre 16 godina

Some rather poorly researched comments coming from Albanians here.

If you are to look back, Serbia has traditionally had excellent relations with Islamic countries as well as African countries. This dates back in the time of Tito.

As far as Kosovo recognition goes, the problem arose when USA and EU counted on Islamic countries to recognize Kosovo right away in their gratitude to the West for creating a Muslim state in Europe. That was to be followed by the West sealing the deal with their recognition and that would be the end of their Kosovo problem.
Hence Afghanistan recognizing Kosovo first - of course American prompted, but it illustrates the point.

When Islamic countries did not recognise Kosovo, each for their own reasons, USA has seen that pressure needs to be exerted, so they sent their agent Turkey to do the job.

Unfortunately for the Turks and the Americans, Islamic association was not swayed, the issue was quickly dismissed and as organisation ICO will not recognise Kosovo but each state to their own, and the main point of conversation continued to be Palestine and wars around Middle East.

There are few things which we need to consider - one, countries such as Libya and Al-Gaddafi who has a honorary degree at University of Megatrend in Belgrade, may refuse recognition on the bases of the fact that they care for Serbian relations more than they for Albanian.
Other countries, such as Iran will simply not like to have American quasi state so close to their own land.
Other countries will be trilled to be doing whatever they can against to make America's life miserable and more difficult, no matter how small.

This is not Serbs begging Muslim countries to do anything - its simply recuperating the good old relations.

The Swiss

pre 16 godina

Kosovo is a unique case but so is Bangladesh, Taiwan, Northern Cyprus. So Kosovo isn't unique by being unique.
(PJD, 21 March 2008 23:26)

No No, Kosovo is a unique case, who else can claim to be run by recognized criminals and deal in drug, arms, organs and human trafficking, it is indeed a unique case!!
What else can US and EU offer other than a stick to the countries that will not recon this puppet state, not much!

Randy McDonald

pre 16 godina

"Thanks for your polite response Randy."

No problem, and you yours. There's really no point in talking if all we'll be doing is flaming at each other, is there? ;-)

"I'm not surprised that a # of westerners have this opinion. However, geopolitics have not gone away in Europe, they've only gone underground temporarily. When it resurfaces we will know more about Serbia's importance."

While I found a lot to disagree with in Parag Khanna's _The Second World,_ I do think that he's right to posit that a dominant position in Europe is something that the European Union would have to lose. Russia is the only plausible contender, but it lacks the muscle and the ideological appeal that would let it compete effectively. If even the Russophiles in Ukraine want that country to join the European Union ...

My notes about the relatively poor performance of Serbia's governments, particularly compared to Bulgaria, are inspired by links like the two below

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=events.event_summary&event_id=102361

http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/08/02/ppp_en/

"I'm not sure where you live,"

Toronto, Canada.

"but as an American I have no room to comment on effective governements since there hasn't been one in the U.S. for the better part of 20 years."

Serbia and Bulgaria in 1989-1991 era were both countries facing significant problems vis-a-vis their economy and, indirectly, their Muslim populations. Bulgaria even began mass deportations of its Muslim populations in 1989, long before anything comparable started in the SFRY. Bulgaria's government stepped back, stopped, tried to make recompense, and adopted fairly sane policies. Serbia did the exact opposite until recently, even though it was Serbia that started off with the advantages. Serbia needs politicians who aren't capable of messing up so badly.

PJD:

"The Bangladesh comparison is not a good one as it was then East Pakistan and separated from West Pakistan by the width of India."

The geographic separation is an issue--clearly Pakistan and the future Bangladesh had no shared land frontiers, and the population ratios are somewhat different--but Bangladesh did have the same historical importance to Pakistan that Kosovo has to Serbia. Pakistan only came into existence because certain Indian Muslim leaders argued that the British Raj contained two nations, one Hindu and one Muslim, and that each of these nations needed its own state if it was to survive. Pakistani leaders found it terribly difficult to deal with the secession of a province that decisively disproved the idea of a unified Islamic Pakistan. The humiliation of Pakistan's defeat in 1971 arguably led that country down the nuclear weapons-making and Islamism-sponsoring route that it has been taking to this day.

DimTuc

pre 16 godina

"as far as I know Bangladesh is a recognized country within the United Nations. However, Kosovo won't be under the current circumstances."

Following the Bengali uprising in 1971, and India's massive armed intervention on their side the end of that year, it took until 1974 for Bangladesh to enter the UN, due to China's veto on the UN Security Council. China's veto I guesss made Bangladesh "illegal"

For me, the Chinese veto on Bangladesh, the Russian veto on Kosova and the US veto on Palestine are factors that must be taken nto account due to the practical efects of them, but don't give me too many moral sermons about the alleged "legality" or otherwise flowing from such decisions of the those 5 with the right to rule the world.

EA

pre 16 godina

“Some of Serbia’s neighbors have not been able to resist that pressure."

Does he mean these countries were "under duress"?)))

He is "touching" countries hearts and pride of their inablilty to be make independent decisions. And do you know why? Because they don't think like Serbian government think.

Interesting eh?))

That is another Serbian theory....more too come))

ben

pre 16 godina

strange for a "Muslim" country as Kosova to be reciognized almost exclusively by Christian countries.

Only subsequently to "pressure" the Islamic countries ;)

P.S. Ahmedinejad said that Iran will not recognize kosova- one of the pillars of the International law and Order toghether with Serbia and Russia (the one to whom you cannot make any pressure) ;)Germany, France, Japan an easy task ;))

Mr. Athanasi

pre 16 godina

It is very interesting how the Serbs now praise the Muslims for not recognizing Kosovo (yet), when they always call them terrorists. In fact, the opinion of the Serbs (at least of those who post in B92) has been that Kosovo Albanians are muslim terrorists. I can guarantee 99.9% that as soon as the Muslim countries recognize Kosovo, the Serbs will say "of course they recognized it. it's their fellow terrorist men".

Luigi

pre 16 godina

It's quite clear that if the recognition will eventually arrive from Arab league countries and from some countries from Latin and Central America kosovo will be a state and Serbia will be defeted ...for now we can only say that mayority of Europe has recognized ...

Randy McDonald

pre 16 godina

"The fact that the vast majority of countries are not recognizing Kosovo should show everyone that we've moved into a different phase of the new world order since 1991."

Quite the contrary.

1. In 1971-2, after an Indian military force removed Bangladesh from Pakistani authority and allowed the country to declare independence, 70 countries recognized Bangladesh to May 1972.

2. This year, after Kosovo declared its independence following NATO intervention, thirty countries recognized Kosovo in a little more than one month.

Which country is doing better at this point? Kosovo is facing some hostility from the powers that be, but so did Bangladesh.

I'd be inclined to call it a tie. I'd also be inclined to bet that Islamic countries will constitute the next major bloc of countries recognizing Kosovo.

albi

pre 16 godina

"Worth noting that only 5 of the 57 states in the OIC have expressed support for Pristina's UDI."

I don't know why I bother replying to things like this, but don't Serbs and their followers always claim that Kosovo is a "muslim" entity?

I'm sure that's not what Jeremic says when he talks to the OIC foreign minsters.

You have to face it: Serbs has switched roles with Albanians. With the end of communism Albanians are now open to the west and to the world, getting more prosperous each day, while Serbia looks to Russia, Iran, and their Arab allies for support. Just the way to go, keep it up.

Randy McDonald

pre 16 godina

"The 1970's was the height of the Cold War. We both know the world changed after 1991. Up until recently the U.S. could do whatever it wanted for good or bad."

Back in 1971 the United States was stronger than the Soviet Union and China was stronger than India. What happened in Bangladesh, though, didn't have much to do with those balances of power.

The United States and Europe aren't doing exactly what they want, true. If they were, everyone would have recognized Kosovo by now.

"Unfortunately, in Kosovo it made the wrong choice."

I won't ask why since I'm afraid I already know the answer.

"The point is that hostilities or not countries are hesitant about this."

Yes, and this was the case was Bangladesh. Many people were wary about the global consequences of Bangladesh's independence. What would the loss of half of Pakistan do to the balance of power in South Asia and the wider world?

Fortunately, much less is at stake. There is no Russian-European cold war and Serbia is a minor state more notable for bad government than anything else. Serbia just doesn't weigh that heavily.

"also, as far as I know Bangladesh is a recognized country within the United Nations."

It is. It took three years before Pakistan and China recognized Bangladeshi independence, but it did eventually happen.

However, Kosovo won't be under the current circumstances.

Niall O'Doherty

pre 16 godina

Bravo Mr Jeremic,

I must compliment you on doing a good job for Serbia. I am not surprised at the diplomatic offence (pressure, intimidation, threats, bribery, corecion) being experienced by many African and Asian states whether they be Muslim, Christian, Buddhist etc. Greece is under severe pressure right now to tow the line.

Saudi Arabia, a US ally is most likely behind the threats towards many of the OIC states. It is encouraging that Libya, Algeria, Morrocco, Egypt, Indonesia, Singapore, Sudan, Tunisia, Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Uzbekhistan, Mali, Mauritania and Syria have in recent days confirmed their support for Serbia or expressed serious reservations about the recent developments and their implications for international law.

Well done Mr Jeremic. It seems Washington may have to up the threats and blackmail even more.

Worth noting that only 5 of the 57 states in the OIC have expressed support for Pristina's UDI.

Marko

pre 16 godina

When Mr. Jeremic's boss officially abandons Kosovo, Jeremic and many other Serbs will feel quite betrayed. Mr. Jeremic is a world class intellectual, but why did he back the wrong horse. Tadic and the DS is not what Serbia needs.

I wish Jeremic will continue to apply his considerable skill and talents to assure Serbia's dignity, but I don't know how that will be possible in cooperation with Tadic

Nicholas Klinsman

pre 16 godina

You bet they're pressing other countries to recognize Kosovo. Their credibility as the world's leaders is on the line.

The fact that the vast majority of countries are not recognizing Kosovo should show everyone that we've moved into a different phase of the new world order since 1991.

When things go wrong the White House will not be able to just say, we were in agreement with most everyone else in the world.

Nicholas Klinsman

pre 16 godina

Bangladesh and Kosovo comaprison: This is a different time and a different continent Randy.

The 1970's was the height of the Cold War. We both know the world changed after 1991. Up until recently the U.S. could do whatever it wanted for good or bad. Unfortunately, in Kosovo it made the wrong choice. The point is that hostilities or not countries are hesitant about this.

also, as far as I know Bangladesh is a recognized country within the United Nations. However, Kosovo won't be under the current circumstances.

BalkanUpdate

pre 16 godina

So much for Kosovo being a project of pan Islamic countries.
Another Serbian propaganda falls right on its tracks. I wonder how they are going to spin this one. Anybody?

lazer, nyc, usa

pre 16 godina

My estimate, never mind what Jeremic thinks, come August and September of this 2008 A.D., Kosovo will be voted in as a full UN Member.
Only a handful of countries will not have recognized it by that time. I can also name them with 100% accuracy.
Although I would like those countries recognize it, its not going to make a big difference. There are also countries out there that will not recognize Kosovo as an Independent country even if Serbia recognized it, tomorow.
As for some politicians in Serbia, future brings a lot of hardship, lets see how it evolves.

Nicholas Klinsman

pre 16 godina

Thanks for your polite response Randy

You said, "Fortunately, much less is at stake. There is no Russian-European cold war and Serbia is a minor state more notable for bad government than anything else. Serbia just doesn't weigh that heavily."

I'm not surprised that a # of westerners have this opinion. However, geopolitics have not gone away in Europe, they've only gone underground temporarily. When it resurfaces we will know more about Serbia's importance.

Obviously I disagree with you that Serbia is most noted for bad government. I'm not sure where you live, but as an American I have no room to comment on effective governements since there hasn't been one in the U.S. for the better part of 20 years.

PJD

pre 16 godina

albi, Serbia's economy is and has been growing quicker than Albania's for many years now. Russia's economy is growing very fast.

Mr. Athanasi:
"the opinion of the Serbs (at least of those who post in B92) has been that Kosovo Albanians are muslim terrorists."

This is what is known as a "straw man argument" based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. The KLA were/are terrorists, but the K-Alb population in general no.

The Bangladesh comparison is not a good one as it was then East Pakistan and separated from West Pakistan by the width of India. At the time East Pakistan had a larger population as well, but all the levers of power were in the west. Bangladesh certainly had no historical importance to Pakistan that Kosovo has to Serbia.

Kosovo is a unique case but so is Bangladesh, Taiwan, Northern Cyprus. So Kosovo isn't unique by being unique.

The Swiss

pre 16 godina

Kosovo is a unique case but so is Bangladesh, Taiwan, Northern Cyprus. So Kosovo isn't unique by being unique.
(PJD, 21 March 2008 23:26)

No No, Kosovo is a unique case, who else can claim to be run by recognized criminals and deal in drug, arms, organs and human trafficking, it is indeed a unique case!!
What else can US and EU offer other than a stick to the countries that will not recon this puppet state, not much!

Randy McDonald

pre 16 godina

"Thanks for your polite response Randy."

No problem, and you yours. There's really no point in talking if all we'll be doing is flaming at each other, is there? ;-)

"I'm not surprised that a # of westerners have this opinion. However, geopolitics have not gone away in Europe, they've only gone underground temporarily. When it resurfaces we will know more about Serbia's importance."

While I found a lot to disagree with in Parag Khanna's _The Second World,_ I do think that he's right to posit that a dominant position in Europe is something that the European Union would have to lose. Russia is the only plausible contender, but it lacks the muscle and the ideological appeal that would let it compete effectively. If even the Russophiles in Ukraine want that country to join the European Union ...

My notes about the relatively poor performance of Serbia's governments, particularly compared to Bulgaria, are inspired by links like the two below

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=events.event_summary&event_id=102361

http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/08/02/ppp_en/

"I'm not sure where you live,"

Toronto, Canada.

"but as an American I have no room to comment on effective governements since there hasn't been one in the U.S. for the better part of 20 years."

Serbia and Bulgaria in 1989-1991 era were both countries facing significant problems vis-a-vis their economy and, indirectly, their Muslim populations. Bulgaria even began mass deportations of its Muslim populations in 1989, long before anything comparable started in the SFRY. Bulgaria's government stepped back, stopped, tried to make recompense, and adopted fairly sane policies. Serbia did the exact opposite until recently, even though it was Serbia that started off with the advantages. Serbia needs politicians who aren't capable of messing up so badly.

PJD:

"The Bangladesh comparison is not a good one as it was then East Pakistan and separated from West Pakistan by the width of India."

The geographic separation is an issue--clearly Pakistan and the future Bangladesh had no shared land frontiers, and the population ratios are somewhat different--but Bangladesh did have the same historical importance to Pakistan that Kosovo has to Serbia. Pakistan only came into existence because certain Indian Muslim leaders argued that the British Raj contained two nations, one Hindu and one Muslim, and that each of these nations needed its own state if it was to survive. Pakistani leaders found it terribly difficult to deal with the secession of a province that decisively disproved the idea of a unified Islamic Pakistan. The humiliation of Pakistan's defeat in 1971 arguably led that country down the nuclear weapons-making and Islamism-sponsoring route that it has been taking to this day.

azir

pre 16 godina

In the second round of Kosova's international independence campaign, all the Islamic countries should show unity in supporting and recognizing as a block,en mass.Any country not supporting us is not really free themselves.There is not pressure, we Albanians just expect every country to do the right thing,that's all.

afrim hoxha

pre 16 godina

Until now Serbia was accusing Kosovars of being islamic terrorists, but now we see that it is in fact the serb government who has connections with the islamic countries, not Kosova.

Finally the serbs unmasked their own connections with the islamic countries, therefore they unmasked their policital aim also for trying to say to the world that the kosovars are with islamic terrorists.
The overwhelming majority that accepted Kosova so far are western european countries.
I hope that the posters who post here see the reality and see who has connections with the islamic countries and who has connections with western christian countries.

jeton

pre 16 godina

This future is based firmly in Europe, as Croatia, Hungary and Bulgaria have all already understood, and not with Russia, a country that offered its own unique “humanitarian aid” to Eastern Europe for fifty year with catastrophic consequences.

DimTuc

pre 16 godina

"as far as I know Bangladesh is a recognized country within the United Nations. However, Kosovo won't be under the current circumstances."

Following the Bengali uprising in 1971, and India's massive armed intervention on their side the end of that year, it took until 1974 for Bangladesh to enter the UN, due to China's veto on the UN Security Council. China's veto I guesss made Bangladesh "illegal"

For me, the Chinese veto on Bangladesh, the Russian veto on Kosova and the US veto on Palestine are factors that must be taken nto account due to the practical efects of them, but don't give me too many moral sermons about the alleged "legality" or otherwise flowing from such decisions of the those 5 with the right to rule the world.

une

pre 16 godina

How funny that when they fought the albanians they were muslim terrorists. Now they are begging the Ilsmic nations not to recognise them. How funny. Two faced propaganda. Soon Kosova will be a UN member

BKK

pre 16 godina

Some rather poorly researched comments coming from Albanians here.

If you are to look back, Serbia has traditionally had excellent relations with Islamic countries as well as African countries. This dates back in the time of Tito.

As far as Kosovo recognition goes, the problem arose when USA and EU counted on Islamic countries to recognize Kosovo right away in their gratitude to the West for creating a Muslim state in Europe. That was to be followed by the West sealing the deal with their recognition and that would be the end of their Kosovo problem.
Hence Afghanistan recognizing Kosovo first - of course American prompted, but it illustrates the point.

When Islamic countries did not recognise Kosovo, each for their own reasons, USA has seen that pressure needs to be exerted, so they sent their agent Turkey to do the job.

Unfortunately for the Turks and the Americans, Islamic association was not swayed, the issue was quickly dismissed and as organisation ICO will not recognise Kosovo but each state to their own, and the main point of conversation continued to be Palestine and wars around Middle East.

There are few things which we need to consider - one, countries such as Libya and Al-Gaddafi who has a honorary degree at University of Megatrend in Belgrade, may refuse recognition on the bases of the fact that they care for Serbian relations more than they for Albanian.
Other countries, such as Iran will simply not like to have American quasi state so close to their own land.
Other countries will be trilled to be doing whatever they can against to make America's life miserable and more difficult, no matter how small.

This is not Serbs begging Muslim countries to do anything - its simply recuperating the good old relations.