Lavrov says Bush arms to Kosovo illegitimate

EA, two points of yours:

1. "The FACTS and I repeat THE FACTS are that Kosova is an independent country whether Serbia likes it or not it is not relevant."

Sorry, but it is very relevant. It is also relevant whether Russia, China and most of the rest of the world "like it or not". Simply declaring independence does not confer that condition on a territory. You will learn this as you attempt to join the UN, EU etc etc. Leaving all that aside, how independent can a place be if it relies on foreign police, civil servants, soldiers, administrators, and charity for its very existence?

2. "Serbia didn't look after its "own" people very well."

Is it not true that during the decades of Yugoslavia a disproportionately high share of the federal budget was allocated to Kosovo. It would appear that it disappeared into a black hole. I wonder why.

Now that president Bush is thinking of sending arms - this is what USA does best - it is in the business of selling arms, creating conflict and then abandoning the antagonists when it gets too hot or unprofitable.

Dardha,

“Excuse me but do you remember that Albanians had no rights during the 90's and that all the executives of the State owned companies in Kosova were expelled to be replaced by ethnic Serbs so how could this money have disappeared because of albanians who had no access to responsibilities”-Dardha said

-How about stop spreading the lies over here. Why Albanians do not honestly say that they left all the institutions, they left their jobs, they left everything that has to do with Serbia. Albanians boycotted Serbian state by all means and logically when one leaves the job another comes, whether Turk, Albanian or Serb. You stated that Serbs expelled you from jobs and I ask you back how come that Serbs did not expel the other ethnic groups.

When it comes to Kosovo economy and its budget, it is well documented that Albanians (while still in the power) have misused the Kosovo budget very badly. Don’t forget that Albanians had all the power in Kosovo from 1974 till beginning of 90’s when you all left your positions.

Do I have to tell you what Albanians have done during 80’s. Since you wonder has anyone visited Kosovo that time, I am telling you that there are many of us who have not only visited but actually lived in Kosmet for few years and still have close ties with Kosmet.

Now that president Bush is thinking of sending arms - this is what USA does best - it is in the business of selling arms, creating conflict and then abandoning the antagonists when it gets too hot or unprofitable.
(PETER, 21 March 2008 13:57)

Could not have said it better myself.

Is it not true that during the decades of Yugoslavia a disproportionately high share of the federal budget was allocated to Kosovo. It would appear that it disappeared into a black hole. I wonder why.
(Tom O'Donoghue, 21 March 2008 14:42)

Excuse me but do you remember that Albanians had no rights during the 90's and that all the executives of the State owned companies in Kosova were expelled to be replaced by ethnic Serbs so how could this money have disappeared because of albanians who had no access to responsibilities? There was no invest in Kosova since Tito's death, so no way for Kosovo to bear any single part of the Serb foreign debt.
As usual, you're being a bit too partial and certainly you never set a single foot in Kosova during the 80's or even the 90's, easy arm chair analysis but far away from the truth...
(Dardha, 21 March 2008 15:43)

Rubbish. An out and out lie. Don't forget that in 1981 the K-Albanians tried to illegaly break from Yugoslavia but failed. Milosevic wasn't in power then, was he.

Is this the beginning of a new arms race in Europe, a new cold war, and maybe a new future (Balkan) war? I hope not. It is quite surprising that the usual EU technocrats have been very quiet about this issue (normally they are quite eager to support everything that come from DC). Did the US "forget" to tell them in advance or did they know, but kept it quiet so certain EU countries would recognize the Kosovo UDI (which otherwise they might not have done)? The winner will be, as usual, the US weapon industry and their share holders (Bush, Cheney, and their buddies) and the loosers will be, as usual, the regular people who just want to have a nice, happy, and peaceful life. Interesting times we are living in and nothing has been learned from history, which means not much good will be in store for many.

Tadic and Kostunica are in their right to think whatever they like.
The FACTS and I repeat THE FACTS are tha Kosova is an independent country whether Serbia likes it or not it is not relevant. Kosova should behave as an independent democratic country and be treated as such from those countries who have recognised it. We all understand why Serbia is interested to see Kosova as weak as possible to "prove" that Kosova can not exist as an independent country...
To those critics who are "concerned" about Kosova's poverty and unemployment I just wanted to advise that on of the reasons is that Serbia didn't look after its "own" people very well. Serbia with policies in Kosova has genenrated many generations of Kosovar immigrants mainly in Western countries and I am very sure that their families are very well looked after in Kosova. The independence of Kosova will give the new country more prospects to rebuild their futures either Kosovar Albanians or Serbs.

From 17th February, ghost is out from the bottle. Therefore many disturbances related to Kosovo are to be oppened.

War is now imminent. Bush sends arms to Kosova.
That is what happens when you recognise a state before the world has time to consider the situation.

If "Kosova" is an independent country, then why doesn't it have a seat at the UN?

Abkhazia also claims to be an independent country, but the USA says it isn't. It also does not have a seat at the UN.

The REALITY is that neither Kosovo or Abkhazia is a country. The USA and it's allies can do their best to stat e that Kosovo is a country and laughably claim that countries who control 65% of world GDP recognize Kosovo, but somewhere in the region of 80% of the world's population HASN'T recognised Kosovo.

Anyway, this argumentis irrelevant. Kosovo needs Serbia's permission for a seat at the UN even if 192 other member states recognised Kosovo. HAHAHAHAHAHa, good luck with you pseudo state. When the coal runs out and all the other minerals in Kosovo, i'm sure the Albanians will be happy to be stared at down the barrel of a Serbian gun. The USA won't provide assistance then. "Kosova" is living on borrowed time.

Illegal or not, most of powerful countries have already recognized its independence. In the light of this fact, it is normal for the newborn state to consolidate its own institutions, including army.
I hope there will be no need for further fightings in Balkans. Regards

I hope there will be no need for further fightings in Balkans. Regards
(Blerim, 21 March 2008 11:42)

Sorry, the Kosovo Albanians should have thought about this before making an illegal declaration of independance from Serbia. They blindly followed the KLA terrorist Thaci and this will lead to conflict because the only remaining Serbs in Kosovo will not be cleansed without a response.

New Serbian T-84 tanks are being tested and produced and illegal arm shipments to Kosovo open the possiblity of full transport of Russian arms to Serbia which may be already taking place which will surely happend with the Radicals in power.

KS,

And what about all the years before Slobodan?

I notice nobody has addressed my first point.

There are many articles published here about what Serbia is saying and doing. All, these articles have in common, is that no-one is actually paying attention to what Serbia's arguments are.
Serbian politicians keep cursing, threating, mocking, sending resolutions, holding speeches but they are completely ignored by IC. This shows how international community is fed up with Serbia. The odd news is that whatever the outcome of elections is in Serbia, there is only win-win situation for Kosova.

Is it not true that during the decades of Yugoslavia a disproportionately high share of the federal budget was allocated to Kosovo. It would appear that it disappeared into a black hole. I wonder why.
(Tom O'Donoghue, 21 March 2008 14:42)

Excuse me but do you remember that Albanians had no rights during the 90's and that all the executives of the State owned companies in Kosova were expelled to be replaced by ethnic Serbs so how could this money have disappeared because of albanians who had no access to responsibilities? There was no invest in Kosova since Tito's death, so no way for Kosovo to bear any single part of the Serb foreign debt.
As usual, you're being a bit too partial and certainly you never set a single foot in Kosova during the 80's or even the 90's, easy arm chair analysis but far away from the truth...

He can talk about "bad news" when he finally realizes that nobody will be fooled again by him and his in next election.

Maybe it is time that Russia will help arm Serbia with some high-tech systems to defend itself against the almost completed encirclement by NATO and the EU. It seems to me that the imperialists will not be satisfied until Serbia itself will become a NATO/EU protectorate like Kosovo, after which it will be chopped up and divided among the loyal local servants like what happened during WWII (Croatia, Hungary, (Greater) Albania and Bulgaria). I do not think you have to be an extreme nationalist or rocket scientist to objectively look at the facts and see where this might all be going. And please do not say afterwards "wir haben es nicht gewuesst". These days history is almost written real-time and documented very accurately and in many places. In addition, the world centre of gravity is shifting towards other places on earth and these emerging world powers have learned their lesson the past 20 years by observing Europe and the consequences of inviting the US too closely and showing weakness and by letting itself be infected by US stooges.

Tom, check your facts. That money went to Slobodan's party who sent the money to Cyprus. You know, that strong Serbia-supporter country. I wonder why?

If billions of dollars went to Kosova (as you claim) the Serbian churches would have elevators, to say the least. :)

And when US blames the Germans.....maybe they got the wrong information for Kosovo too..., scary but true!!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,542708,00.html

EA , you have missed the point , "the FACTS are" bush is now sending arms to KNOWN terrorists and KNOWN war criminals ie thaci etc etc , that is the problem itself .

Lavrov probably forgets that Kosova is an independent country and has the right,as any other country,to make arms purchases from any source.

In bush's final days in office, he is creating a blueprint & giving an "indirect" green light for an uneeded war. We are in a very delicate situation with the current status of Kosovo's illegal claim of independence & here comes bush again causing pure havoc.

Furthermore, for KS to make a reference to elevators in Serbian churches is completely blasphemous. Shame on you, but would we expect anything different from KS?

CCCC

Russia is playing its own game, while Serbia misses opportunity after opportunity. When Molosevic fell, all Serbia had to do was !. Most important. To keep closer ties with Montenegro. That may had involved even drastic measures as shifting its infrastructural backbone from the line Belgrade - Salonica to Belgrade Bar (expensive as it may have been.and perhaps moving the federal capital to say Ceninje) 2. Working closer with the EU and in integrating to EU together with Bosnia and the Bosnian Serbs. 3... To GET RID of Kosovo. Two million Albanians could not be integrated in Serbia's body politic. Thus Serbia would have "debalkanised itself!Well Serbia lost a real treasure (Montenegro) for a claim over a junkjard (Kosovo)

Listen, stop squabbling like kids. Fact of the matter is: Kosovo is independent and will have an army of it own. Serbia has to deal with the fact that its southern neighbor will have its armed forces built.

The arms shipment news is merely symbolical at this point. It marks US's commitment to build Kosovo's armed forces and remain committed to its support for Kosovo's statehood. The arms shipment itself will be insignificant at this point in time.

Go read the Ahtisaari Plan: the Kosovo Security Force, within the first five years of its existence, will exercise a civil response role and operate only on a lightly-armed basis. Meaning: no tanks, artillery, or offensive capability.

However, in 5 year's time, the international authorities in Kosovo, together with the KS government, will decide on whether to go ahead with expanding the role and the equipment of Kosovo's army.

Essentially, the arms shipment promised by the US will contain light arms. But, the important thing is that within 5 years, Kosovo will have built the nuclues of its army and at that point will have prepared itself to assume a more sweeping military role. That's when the US arms shipments will be particularly important.

I suspect that if the Serba and the Russians overplay their hands with respect to actively working to divide Kosovo, the US and the West will see the creation of a strong Kosovo Army as a way to contain the Russian influence in Kosovo, to build a strong deterent vis-a-vis Serbia, counterbalance Serbian military hegemony, and provide for an exit strategy for NATO - giving way to a strong Kosovo Army being capable to repell a Serbian military threat.

This is only a scenario, yet it is not too far-fetched an idea, especially, as I said, the Serbs and Russians overplay their cards and make the creation of a well-armed Kosovo Army a necessity to counter Russo-Serbian influence.

Cold War freakish, ain't it?

No fan of it at all, but if the Russian-US anomosity is being played in the territory of Kosovo, then we might as well decide to get a strong army out of it!

It's the most sustainable long-term life-insurance policy of Kosovo!

I'm sorry mr LAVROV but your line through EU end's up right there in that small conutry as they call KOSOVA it will be you and others tracking device when it comes to safety of EU and NATO members so you go a head and talk as much as you whant this is 21 century fredom of speach just its matter how much attetion you will get from others!?

Is it not true that during the decades of Yugoslavia a disproportionately high share of the federal budget was allocated to Kosovo. It would appear that it disappeared into a black hole. I wonder why.
(Tom O'Donoghue, 21 March 2008 14:42)

Excuse me but do you remember that Albanians had no rights during the 90's and that all the executives of the State owned companies in Kosova were expelled to be replaced by ethnic Serbs so how could this money have disappeared because of albanians who had no access to responsibilities? There was no invest in Kosova since Tito's death, so no way for Kosovo to bear any single part of the Serb foreign debt.
As usual, you're being a bit too partial and certainly you never set a single foot in Kosova during the 80's or even the 90's, easy arm chair analysis but far away from the truth...

Tadic and Kostunica are in their right to think whatever they like.
The FACTS and I repeat THE FACTS are tha Kosova is an independent country whether Serbia likes it or not it is not relevant. Kosova should behave as an independent democratic country and be treated as such from those countries who have recognised it. We all understand why Serbia is interested to see Kosova as weak as possible to "prove" that Kosova can not exist as an independent country...
To those critics who are "concerned" about Kosova's poverty and unemployment I just wanted to advise that on of the reasons is that Serbia didn't look after its "own" people very well. Serbia with policies in Kosova has genenrated many generations of Kosovar immigrants mainly in Western countries and I am very sure that their families are very well looked after in Kosova. The independence of Kosova will give the new country more prospects to rebuild their futures either Kosovar Albanians or Serbs.

There are many articles published here about what Serbia is saying and doing. All, these articles have in common, is that no-one is actually paying attention to what Serbia's arguments are.
Serbian politicians keep cursing, threating, mocking, sending resolutions, holding speeches but they are completely ignored by IC. This shows how international community is fed up with Serbia. The odd news is that whatever the outcome of elections is in Serbia, there is only win-win situation for Kosova.

Lavrov probably forgets that Kosova is an independent country and has the right,as any other country,to make arms purchases from any source.

Illegal or not, most of powerful countries have already recognized its independence. In the light of this fact, it is normal for the newborn state to consolidate its own institutions, including army.
I hope there will be no need for further fightings in Balkans. Regards

He can talk about "bad news" when he finally realizes that nobody will be fooled again by him and his in next election.

Tom, check your facts. That money went to Slobodan's party who sent the money to Cyprus. You know, that strong Serbia-supporter country. I wonder why?

If billions of dollars went to Kosova (as you claim) the Serbian churches would have elevators, to say the least. :)

Dardha,

“Excuse me but do you remember that Albanians had no rights during the 90's and that all the executives of the State owned companies in Kosova were expelled to be replaced by ethnic Serbs so how could this money have disappeared because of albanians who had no access to responsibilities”-Dardha said

-How about stop spreading the lies over here. Why Albanians do not honestly say that they left all the institutions, they left their jobs, they left everything that has to do with Serbia. Albanians boycotted Serbian state by all means and logically when one leaves the job another comes, whether Turk, Albanian or Serb. You stated that Serbs expelled you from jobs and I ask you back how come that Serbs did not expel the other ethnic groups.

When it comes to Kosovo economy and its budget, it is well documented that Albanians (while still in the power) have misused the Kosovo budget very badly. Don’t forget that Albanians had all the power in Kosovo from 1974 till beginning of 90’s when you all left your positions.

Do I have to tell you what Albanians have done during 80’s. Since you wonder has anyone visited Kosovo that time, I am telling you that there are many of us who have not only visited but actually lived in Kosmet for few years and still have close ties with Kosmet.

EA, two points of yours:

1. "The FACTS and I repeat THE FACTS are that Kosova is an independent country whether Serbia likes it or not it is not relevant."

Sorry, but it is very relevant. It is also relevant whether Russia, China and most of the rest of the world "like it or not". Simply declaring independence does not confer that condition on a territory. You will learn this as you attempt to join the UN, EU etc etc. Leaving all that aside, how independent can a place be if it relies on foreign police, civil servants, soldiers, administrators, and charity for its very existence?

2. "Serbia didn't look after its "own" people very well."

Is it not true that during the decades of Yugoslavia a disproportionately high share of the federal budget was allocated to Kosovo. It would appear that it disappeared into a black hole. I wonder why.

Is it not true that during the decades of Yugoslavia a disproportionately high share of the federal budget was allocated to Kosovo. It would appear that it disappeared into a black hole. I wonder why.
(Tom O'Donoghue, 21 March 2008 14:42)

Excuse me but do you remember that Albanians had no rights during the 90's and that all the executives of the State owned companies in Kosova were expelled to be replaced by ethnic Serbs so how could this money have disappeared because of albanians who had no access to responsibilities? There was no invest in Kosova since Tito's death, so no way for Kosovo to bear any single part of the Serb foreign debt.
As usual, you're being a bit too partial and certainly you never set a single foot in Kosova during the 80's or even the 90's, easy arm chair analysis but far away from the truth...
(Dardha, 21 March 2008 15:43)

Rubbish. An out and out lie. Don't forget that in 1981 the K-Albanians tried to illegaly break from Yugoslavia but failed. Milosevic wasn't in power then, was he.

War is now imminent. Bush sends arms to Kosova.
That is what happens when you recognise a state before the world has time to consider the situation.

If "Kosova" is an independent country, then why doesn't it have a seat at the UN?

Abkhazia also claims to be an independent country, but the USA says it isn't. It also does not have a seat at the UN.

The REALITY is that neither Kosovo or Abkhazia is a country. The USA and it's allies can do their best to stat e that Kosovo is a country and laughably claim that countries who control 65% of world GDP recognize Kosovo, but somewhere in the region of 80% of the world's population HASN'T recognised Kosovo.

Anyway, this argumentis irrelevant. Kosovo needs Serbia's permission for a seat at the UN even if 192 other member states recognised Kosovo. HAHAHAHAHAHa, good luck with you pseudo state. When the coal runs out and all the other minerals in Kosovo, i'm sure the Albanians will be happy to be stared at down the barrel of a Serbian gun. The USA won't provide assistance then. "Kosova" is living on borrowed time.

KS,

And what about all the years before Slobodan?

I notice nobody has addressed my first point.

I hope there will be no need for further fightings in Balkans. Regards
(Blerim, 21 March 2008 11:42)

Sorry, the Kosovo Albanians should have thought about this before making an illegal declaration of independance from Serbia. They blindly followed the KLA terrorist Thaci and this will lead to conflict because the only remaining Serbs in Kosovo will not be cleansed without a response.

New Serbian T-84 tanks are being tested and produced and illegal arm shipments to Kosovo open the possiblity of full transport of Russian arms to Serbia which may be already taking place which will surely happend with the Radicals in power.

Listen, stop squabbling like kids. Fact of the matter is: Kosovo is independent and will have an army of it own. Serbia has to deal with the fact that its southern neighbor will have its armed forces built.

The arms shipment news is merely symbolical at this point. It marks US's commitment to build Kosovo's armed forces and remain committed to its support for Kosovo's statehood. The arms shipment itself will be insignificant at this point in time.

Go read the Ahtisaari Plan: the Kosovo Security Force, within the first five years of its existence, will exercise a civil response role and operate only on a lightly-armed basis. Meaning: no tanks, artillery, or offensive capability.

However, in 5 year's time, the international authorities in Kosovo, together with the KS government, will decide on whether to go ahead with expanding the role and the equipment of Kosovo's army.

Essentially, the arms shipment promised by the US will contain light arms. But, the important thing is that within 5 years, Kosovo will have built the nuclues of its army and at that point will have prepared itself to assume a more sweeping military role. That's when the US arms shipments will be particularly important.

I suspect that if the Serba and the Russians overplay their hands with respect to actively working to divide Kosovo, the US and the West will see the creation of a strong Kosovo Army as a way to contain the Russian influence in Kosovo, to build a strong deterent vis-a-vis Serbia, counterbalance Serbian military hegemony, and provide for an exit strategy for NATO - giving way to a strong Kosovo Army being capable to repell a Serbian military threat.

This is only a scenario, yet it is not too far-fetched an idea, especially, as I said, the Serbs and Russians overplay their cards and make the creation of a well-armed Kosovo Army a necessity to counter Russo-Serbian influence.

Cold War freakish, ain't it?

No fan of it at all, but if the Russian-US anomosity is being played in the territory of Kosovo, then we might as well decide to get a strong army out of it!

It's the most sustainable long-term life-insurance policy of Kosovo!

I'm sorry mr LAVROV but your line through EU end's up right there in that small conutry as they call KOSOVA it will be you and others tracking device when it comes to safety of EU and NATO members so you go a head and talk as much as you whant this is 21 century fredom of speach just its matter how much attetion you will get from others!?

Russia is playing its own game, while Serbia misses opportunity after opportunity. When Molosevic fell, all Serbia had to do was !. Most important. To keep closer ties with Montenegro. That may had involved even drastic measures as shifting its infrastructural backbone from the line Belgrade - Salonica to Belgrade Bar (expensive as it may have been.and perhaps moving the federal capital to say Ceninje) 2. Working closer with the EU and in integrating to EU together with Bosnia and the Bosnian Serbs. 3... To GET RID of Kosovo. Two million Albanians could not be integrated in Serbia's body politic. Thus Serbia would have "debalkanised itself!Well Serbia lost a real treasure (Montenegro) for a claim over a junkjard (Kosovo)

From 17th February, ghost is out from the bottle. Therefore many disturbances related to Kosovo are to be oppened.

Now that president Bush is thinking of sending arms - this is what USA does best - it is in the business of selling arms, creating conflict and then abandoning the antagonists when it gets too hot or unprofitable.

Now that president Bush is thinking of sending arms - this is what USA does best - it is in the business of selling arms, creating conflict and then abandoning the antagonists when it gets too hot or unprofitable.
(PETER, 21 March 2008 13:57)

Could not have said it better myself.

Is this the beginning of a new arms race in Europe, a new cold war, and maybe a new future (Balkan) war? I hope not. It is quite surprising that the usual EU technocrats have been very quiet about this issue (normally they are quite eager to support everything that come from DC). Did the US "forget" to tell them in advance or did they know, but kept it quiet so certain EU countries would recognize the Kosovo UDI (which otherwise they might not have done)? The winner will be, as usual, the US weapon industry and their share holders (Bush, Cheney, and their buddies) and the loosers will be, as usual, the regular people who just want to have a nice, happy, and peaceful life. Interesting times we are living in and nothing has been learned from history, which means not much good will be in store for many.

Maybe it is time that Russia will help arm Serbia with some high-tech systems to defend itself against the almost completed encirclement by NATO and the EU. It seems to me that the imperialists will not be satisfied until Serbia itself will become a NATO/EU protectorate like Kosovo, after which it will be chopped up and divided among the loyal local servants like what happened during WWII (Croatia, Hungary, (Greater) Albania and Bulgaria). I do not think you have to be an extreme nationalist or rocket scientist to objectively look at the facts and see where this might all be going. And please do not say afterwards "wir haben es nicht gewuesst". These days history is almost written real-time and documented very accurately and in many places. In addition, the world centre of gravity is shifting towards other places on earth and these emerging world powers have learned their lesson the past 20 years by observing Europe and the consequences of inviting the US too closely and showing weakness and by letting itself be infected by US stooges.

In bush's final days in office, he is creating a blueprint & giving an "indirect" green light for an uneeded war. We are in a very delicate situation with the current status of Kosovo's illegal claim of independence & here comes bush again causing pure havoc.

Furthermore, for KS to make a reference to elevators in Serbian churches is completely blasphemous. Shame on you, but would we expect anything different from KS?

CCCC

And when US blames the Germans.....maybe they got the wrong information for Kosovo too..., scary but true!!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,542708,00.html

EA , you have missed the point , "the FACTS are" bush is now sending arms to KNOWN terrorists and KNOWN war criminals ie thaci etc etc , that is the problem itself .