This is just normal politics. There is a party in the government coalition that makes some demands when they think they have the best opportunity to have them fulfilled. It happens everywhere all the time. It is funny to see that comments go from Macedonian government crisis to who is the best between Slavs or Albanians.
Quite right, I did not know that. Dr. Ferid Murad is his name. I learn something new.
Still, this does not compare even in the slightest to Slavic achievements like man in space, first animal in space, first satellite in space, discovery of radioactivity, modern heliocentric theory of the Solar system, creation of the oil industry, modern alternating current electric power (AC) systems, mine detector, first maps of the moon, the world's first national ministry of education and such, what does Ahmed say?
"We
are proud to call ourselves the descentants of illyrians
and our civilisation is well
documented by the world historians. Your opinions on us and those of your compatriots will make it very
difficult for both to line on the same land.
(ahmed, 15 March 2008 00:04)"
As the Americans say -If he wants to be a decendent of an Illyrian let him be an Illyrian decedent!
;)
Ahmed, or whoever... Gruevski is not an American "puddle", unlike the Crvenkovskis, Ahmetis et al; he is the US's worst nightmare because he has Macedonia's interests at heart! This piece of intrigue will play out well for Macedonia yet! Macedonian people are like an experiment; how much stress can a people take? It's a joke! Every day Karamanlis/bakojanni threats, EU threats, US threats, Albanians are ALWAYS threatening... nothing new for us! But we do take exception to Albanian crime/attacks of late, stealing money, hmm, what do they have in mind?
"Can you tell us what exactly your kind has given to civilisation."
I almost spat tea on the screen when I read this! Are you really asking what the Slavs have given civilization? Are you telling me you have never heard of any of the advances in discovery as a result of Russian, Polish and Serbian scientists, doctors, mathematicians, artists, musicians and leaders?
You should be asking yourself what the Albanians have given the world before asking what any other European group has.
"We
are proud to call ourselves the descentants of illyrians
and our civilisation is well
documented by the world historians. Your opinions on us and those of your compatriots will make it very
difficult for both to line on the same land.
(ahmed, 15 March 2008 00:04)"
I could not but laugh out loud!
you mean, world historians like the Encyclopedia Britannica in it´s edition from 1912?
you must be very frustrated to believe such a nonsense...
you are not descendants of the illyrians, you never were.
your friends the Americans have made that clear in the late 1980´s ...
Greeks name issue with Macedonia can be partialy solved by recognizing Ilirida on the 40% of territory Albanians have historicaly resided in.The other 60% can back to Bulgaria or call itself what ever it wants, if we don't get our national rights respected and represented.
Ahmed, take it easy..
Essentially, here's the root of the problem, as i see it.
This article exposes a few interesting facts about both groups.
Firstly, ironically you consider yourselves Albanians first and foremost. Macedonia seems to be only an inconvenience, and i would take it to the next step, and call Mr.Thaci's actions irresponsible, and self serving. Making demands of the Kosovo issue doesn't solve any of Macedonia's problems.
Secondly, Albanian politics, both in Serbia and Macedonia, seems to be indirectly lined up with nationalistic overtones. Respect for current government seems to be a light switch that gets turned off and on intermittently..
Surely, Macedonia should have known what was waiting for it, when it declared independence from YU, but the Albanians should also stop their rhetoric, and allow for more cool heads to prevail..
Oppression isn't accepted anymore, but neither should taking advantage of a fragile situation in Skopje. Mr. Thaci's agenda doesn't seem very helpful to the people of Macedonia.
My comments re: a closed, fear based society, parasitic attitude on the state are simply facts; a parasite is an alien entity that attaches itself to a host and then feeds on it's life force, to the detriment of the host!
Yes, I am a nationalist because I love my country, and do not accept Albanian blackmail! Why do Macedonians have no problems with Serb, Turk, Vlah or Roma minorities? You tell me!
Gruevski is a Macedonian nationalist who denies the Albanians their rights, LOL! Well, Gruevski is not a murderer like Ali Ahmeti, a war criminal like "The Snake" aka Hashim Taci, Agi Ceku; War criminal, murderer, Menduh Taci; small time criminal, Leka,murderer, Haradinaj; war criminal, murderer, etc. etc. etc. Answer to me about the dossiers of your "leaders" before calling me a "nationalist" who tirades against innocent Albanians, who after all only want a third country!
Ahmed,
your relation with illyrians is like the relation of potatoes and chairs. None.
Illyrians were a strong group of small tribes and none of them was in any close or far relation with the albanians. Let it go please.
The last illyrian peoples were eliminated at round 140 bc by the romans.
Even with Greece they did the same and tried to ask for s.Epiros to unite with albania. They forgot that they were the ones that helped the nazis during ww2 and were murdering greeks in the area. They forget that they followed the nazis in invading Greece, who - as an armed force - was the very first one to stop the axis forces, when one by one the others were opening their gates to the nazi troops? Or do they forget that the yugoslavians and the greeks were the ones defending their lands when the albanians (and some others...) were the ones mrdering partizans? They forget that they were kicked by the greek partizans during ww2. They forget that after the war they were arrested and trialed and were sent back to their country as criminals. They forget that they signed that they do not have or ever have claims on any rights over the properties thay confiscated during the nazi occupation as partners of the nazis. And now they ask those back. And noon mentions that they were and still are denying the ethnic identity of all those hundernds of thousands greeks living in N.Epirus. They even deny them the right to call the land N.Epirus and themselves "albanians of greek origin" as they have agreed with the greek govts. Our prisons are 300% full and the majority of the prisoners being albanian criminals.
Doni
"are going to be decisive in the name dispute and relations with greece. if macedonians don't want albanians, then we can cooperate with greece."
Who exactly told you that we want to cooperate with you?
What makes you being so arrogant and say that if you help the FYROM govt, they will win the name dispute? What makes you think you have all those supernatural powers if not your megalomaniac ego for a great albania that you are willing to take your weapons to succeed in it?
Nikshala
"but simply to secure the rights that any minority deserves in Europe"
Where exaclty in EU does a minority have the right of its own flag and a defacto percentage of public servants? Mention some, I am very curious.
Asking for rights when you deny much less to the people asking them from you. If you are worthy and proud people, you should be the ones asking for no discrimination in FYROM based on ethnicity. You should be the first to say: Since we are all citizens of the same country, we should be treated the same way and then your worthness would be measured. Now you want all for yourselves without sharing a drop of sweat. Great people you are albanians. You should be very proud of yourselves!!!
P.S. Sorry for the explosion, but when I read monstrocities I get really upset :)
Dimitar
It's the nationalists like yourself that cause all the troubles.In yesterdays posting you called all the Albanians parasites,tribaland
fearful of the outside world.
You continued with your tirade by describing the Albanians as uncivilised and
having an inferiority complev against the Slavs.Can
you tell us what exactly your
kind has given to civilisation.The so called
macedonians are the imposters
of history and geography.We
are proud to call ourselves the descentants of illyrians
and our civilisation is well
documented by the world historians. Your opinions on us and those of your compatriots will make it very
difficult for both to line on the same land.
Implicit in all derisive comments, vulgar grk acronym fyrom is first! Yesterday, a postal van was attacked in Skopje suburb Cair ( Albanian ) with 4 workers wounded, one in life threatening situation. Albanian blackmail and racist behaviour will get them nowhere, only deepen the already wide gulf. The inevitable backlash against the albanians is being instigated by the albanians themselves!
at smile,
the Rankovics you just mentioned are the ones you are proud of?? this is what all your nation is rankovics and brankovics.
shame on serbia.
but now the times have changed, we are also 8 millions in the balkans, and with many old and new allies, and when we speak others must listen.
albanians will find that they chose the wrong people(s) to play this game with. in fact, i think they already know, but are trying just the same. now if balkans was inhabited by some ultra-tolerant, ultra-civilized, balmy nations, albanian violence and threats of violence and blackmail would in the short and long term be awarded, and amen. but here in the balkans everyone can play that game. and in the end, the winners will be societies stronger if every sense a society can be strong. albanians measured against their neigbours have many more weaknesses than strengths.
in kosovo, the heart of our serb medieval empire and the religious heartland comparable to jerusalem, serbs were driven out in ww2, by nazis and collaborators. communists afterwards decided to please some of the locals, that is albanians, by not letting serbs return to their homes. then albanians started intimidating and pressuring remaining serbs to move out of their homes and farms in the 1950's, 1960's. then broz, a croat, sacks serbian police minister who was trying to end this albanian violence. then albanians continue with this. in 1974, broz gives them a constitution with wide autonomy. and still in 1980, they organize bloody demonstrations in pristina, because they thought yugoslavia was weak after broz's death and now was the time to break it up and secede. why do i say, now was the time? do i mean that albanians were always secessionists and that it has nothing to do with milosevic and 1999? i do mean that. then, milosevic in 1987 tells kosovo serbs, i will protect you from this terror. then, in 1989, he revokes the 1974 provisions because they only encouraged albanians to try and partition serbia. then they organize a terror group known as kla. entire 1990's, our police patiently tried to restore order there. in 1998 albanians committed war crimes and they are in the hague for this today. and only after this, only after nato attacked serbia, and nato attacked serbia after albanians did war crimes in kosovo, only in 1999, some serbs also committed crimes there. this last act is u.s. justification for awarding albanians with right of secession. it's pathetic of course, and the only flaw in this plan is that serbs will never accept it. that's why we have elections now. because we were not born yesterday as ds would like us to have been. we know what's at stake. and lets not forget 'spontanous' march 2004 crimes, when albanians organized torching of chruches and exile of thousands of serbs to warn the west that they want what's promised them. the west took the cue and so called negotiations with in advance known outcome started. but guess what, one more time, perfect plan with just a tiny flaw: 8 million serbs bang in the middle of the balkans who are saying, NO.
now why do i write all this under macedonia article? because it's one and the same story, to prove a point that kosovo is not a unique case. albanians did not ask independence because of the war in 99, on the contrary, war in 99 happened because of the secessionists' decades long intimidation and terror against the serbs. they dont accept macedonia any more than they do serbia or montenegro. they are in other words behaving illegally. they are out to destroy our states.
and i am completely confident that we will not let them.
If Macedonians were smart they would appeal to Belgrade for help. US sold u down the river and now are threatening (indirectly) to tear up your country if you do not recognize Kosovo. CCCC Unite with your Orthodox brothers.
All albanians in Macedonia are asking, is for Macedonian authorities ot respect the Ohrid agreement that they signed - nothing more, nothing less.
Its not an attempt to split Macedonia, but simply to secure the rights that any minority deserves in Europe.
Macedonian authorities have been takins some steps back from the Oher agreement in the last few months, and thats the reason for the collapse of the goverment, if that happens.
International communitu should press Macedonia to respect the agreement before things get worse.
This is what the UCK does. They murder police, blackmail the government, and cry to western powers for help when the government tries to stop the UCK from terrorizing their population. I enjoy how Europe attaches all these conditions on Macedonia for recognition of "minority rights", but yet Croatia, the Baltic states, and other pro-European puppet states are rarely if ever criticized for their chauvinistic policies.
Macedonia will not gain anything from recognizing the UCK state. It will become a base by which they will murder Macedonians. They should unite with Serbia against terrorism.
Gruevski is playing a dangerous game with the future of Macedonia.Under normal circumstances he would
have compromised with the Albanians and delivered on his signature on the Ohrid Agreement.Instead he would rather see the Albanians alienated and his goverment
collapsing because of the decision to confront Greece on the name game.We're not interested on his dispute with greece because firstly were albanians and his name does't give us any ethnicity.
Secondly, the irony of the name issue is that many slavs
of the VMRO curry Bulgarian
IDS and passports because of
bulgarian ancestry.Thirdly,he
knows that the EU & NATO will
support any existing member
against a third party so he is waisting his time.
Strangely enough the Serbs do
not accuse Gruevski for being
a US puddle over his decision
to send Macedonian soldiers to Iraq & Afganistan .
Macedonia can't continue to ignore the legitimate rights of Albanians who make up 38-40 % of population for usage of Albanian lingua as a second official language and other human rights that were agreed on the Ohri agreement in 2001. If Albanian population is not satisfied with the Ohrid's Agreement level of implementation there will be another ethnic strife, which will put an end not only to Macedonia's prospects to European membership bid but also even its existence. Which way is FYROM going? That of Milosevic?
Are we witnessing the end of FYROM? Now that albanians temporarily have succeded in stealing a part of Serbia, part 1 in Greater Albania goal, they will now start with part 2. First to disolve government in Skopje, then asking for right to have independence from FYROM. If they are not given that "right" a lot of unemployed KLA roughs will start to murder macedonian police and then the civil war will start over again. Albanians have experience in how to get away with this. Bush will probably come to their help against "serbian-macedonian" orthodox threat...
this is just a show for our friendly macedonian slavs, as well as greeks and serbs gov.
everything is alrady agreed by both sides political leaders. just domestic politics.
As far as Albanians are concerned we need only equal rights, and macedonians will win their name dispute with greece. the result will be same as the visa regime with albania. everything was agreed before hand, but they needed to make a show out of it. Albanians have no intention of spliting for Macedonia, especially now that we will be majority in near future, we need a full functional country. maybe the macedonians want to split??
albanians are friendly majority, and are going to be decisive in the name dispute and relations with greece. if macedonians don't want albanians, then we can cooperate with greece.
Two points first that Albanians have been encouraged by Kosovo recognition so are quite logically laying down demands in neighbouring countries.
Second point is regional stability. The Croatian government is also is danger of collapsing because of Kosovo and also (ironically) because of EU policy towards that country.
Serbia as we all know has a crisis of its own going on.
By any standards, no matter what you opinion, you have to wonder about how wise it was to recognise Kosovo at this juncture.
Are we witnessing the end of FYROM? Now that albanians temporarily have succeded in stealing a part of Serbia, part 1 in Greater Albania goal, they will now start with part 2. First to disolve government in Skopje, then asking for right to have independence from FYROM. If they are not given that "right" a lot of unemployed KLA roughs will start to murder macedonian police and then the civil war will start over again. Albanians have experience in how to get away with this. Bush will probably come to their help against "serbian-macedonian" orthodox threat...
albanians will find that they chose the wrong people(s) to play this game with. in fact, i think they already know, but are trying just the same. now if balkans was inhabited by some ultra-tolerant, ultra-civilized, balmy nations, albanian violence and threats of violence and blackmail would in the short and long term be awarded, and amen. but here in the balkans everyone can play that game. and in the end, the winners will be societies stronger if every sense a society can be strong. albanians measured against their neigbours have many more weaknesses than strengths.
in kosovo, the heart of our serb medieval empire and the religious heartland comparable to jerusalem, serbs were driven out in ww2, by nazis and collaborators. communists afterwards decided to please some of the locals, that is albanians, by not letting serbs return to their homes. then albanians started intimidating and pressuring remaining serbs to move out of their homes and farms in the 1950's, 1960's. then broz, a croat, sacks serbian police minister who was trying to end this albanian violence. then albanians continue with this. in 1974, broz gives them a constitution with wide autonomy. and still in 1980, they organize bloody demonstrations in pristina, because they thought yugoslavia was weak after broz's death and now was the time to break it up and secede. why do i say, now was the time? do i mean that albanians were always secessionists and that it has nothing to do with milosevic and 1999? i do mean that. then, milosevic in 1987 tells kosovo serbs, i will protect you from this terror. then, in 1989, he revokes the 1974 provisions because they only encouraged albanians to try and partition serbia. then they organize a terror group known as kla. entire 1990's, our police patiently tried to restore order there. in 1998 albanians committed war crimes and they are in the hague for this today. and only after this, only after nato attacked serbia, and nato attacked serbia after albanians did war crimes in kosovo, only in 1999, some serbs also committed crimes there. this last act is u.s. justification for awarding albanians with right of secession. it's pathetic of course, and the only flaw in this plan is that serbs will never accept it. that's why we have elections now. because we were not born yesterday as ds would like us to have been. we know what's at stake. and lets not forget 'spontanous' march 2004 crimes, when albanians organized torching of chruches and exile of thousands of serbs to warn the west that they want what's promised them. the west took the cue and so called negotiations with in advance known outcome started. but guess what, one more time, perfect plan with just a tiny flaw: 8 million serbs bang in the middle of the balkans who are saying, NO.
now why do i write all this under macedonia article? because it's one and the same story, to prove a point that kosovo is not a unique case. albanians did not ask independence because of the war in 99, on the contrary, war in 99 happened because of the secessionists' decades long intimidation and terror against the serbs. they dont accept macedonia any more than they do serbia or montenegro. they are in other words behaving illegally. they are out to destroy our states.
and i am completely confident that we will not let them.
This is what the UCK does. They murder police, blackmail the government, and cry to western powers for help when the government tries to stop the UCK from terrorizing their population. I enjoy how Europe attaches all these conditions on Macedonia for recognition of "minority rights", but yet Croatia, the Baltic states, and other pro-European puppet states are rarely if ever criticized for their chauvinistic policies.
Macedonia will not gain anything from recognizing the UCK state. It will become a base by which they will murder Macedonians. They should unite with Serbia against terrorism.
If Macedonians were smart they would appeal to Belgrade for help. US sold u down the river and now are threatening (indirectly) to tear up your country if you do not recognize Kosovo. CCCC Unite with your Orthodox brothers.
Two points first that Albanians have been encouraged by Kosovo recognition so are quite logically laying down demands in neighbouring countries.
Second point is regional stability. The Croatian government is also is danger of collapsing because of Kosovo and also (ironically) because of EU policy towards that country.
Serbia as we all know has a crisis of its own going on.
By any standards, no matter what you opinion, you have to wonder about how wise it was to recognise Kosovo at this juncture.
Macedonia can't continue to ignore the legitimate rights of Albanians who make up 38-40 % of population for usage of Albanian lingua as a second official language and other human rights that were agreed on the Ohri agreement in 2001. If Albanian population is not satisfied with the Ohrid's Agreement level of implementation there will be another ethnic strife, which will put an end not only to Macedonia's prospects to European membership bid but also even its existence. Which way is FYROM going? That of Milosevic?
this is just a show for our friendly macedonian slavs, as well as greeks and serbs gov.
everything is alrady agreed by both sides political leaders. just domestic politics.
As far as Albanians are concerned we need only equal rights, and macedonians will win their name dispute with greece. the result will be same as the visa regime with albania. everything was agreed before hand, but they needed to make a show out of it. Albanians have no intention of spliting for Macedonia, especially now that we will be majority in near future, we need a full functional country. maybe the macedonians want to split??
albanians are friendly majority, and are going to be decisive in the name dispute and relations with greece. if macedonians don't want albanians, then we can cooperate with greece.
All albanians in Macedonia are asking, is for Macedonian authorities ot respect the Ohrid agreement that they signed - nothing more, nothing less.
Its not an attempt to split Macedonia, but simply to secure the rights that any minority deserves in Europe.
Macedonian authorities have been takins some steps back from the Oher agreement in the last few months, and thats the reason for the collapse of the goverment, if that happens.
International communitu should press Macedonia to respect the agreement before things get worse.
Gruevski is playing a dangerous game with the future of Macedonia.Under normal circumstances he would
have compromised with the Albanians and delivered on his signature on the Ohrid Agreement.Instead he would rather see the Albanians alienated and his goverment
collapsing because of the decision to confront Greece on the name game.We're not interested on his dispute with greece because firstly were albanians and his name does't give us any ethnicity.
Secondly, the irony of the name issue is that many slavs
of the VMRO curry Bulgarian
IDS and passports because of
bulgarian ancestry.Thirdly,he
knows that the EU & NATO will
support any existing member
against a third party so he is waisting his time.
Strangely enough the Serbs do
not accuse Gruevski for being
a US puddle over his decision
to send Macedonian soldiers to Iraq & Afganistan .
Even with Greece they did the same and tried to ask for s.Epiros to unite with albania. They forgot that they were the ones that helped the nazis during ww2 and were murdering greeks in the area. They forget that they followed the nazis in invading Greece, who - as an armed force - was the very first one to stop the axis forces, when one by one the others were opening their gates to the nazi troops? Or do they forget that the yugoslavians and the greeks were the ones defending their lands when the albanians (and some others...) were the ones mrdering partizans? They forget that they were kicked by the greek partizans during ww2. They forget that after the war they were arrested and trialed and were sent back to their country as criminals. They forget that they signed that they do not have or ever have claims on any rights over the properties thay confiscated during the nazi occupation as partners of the nazis. And now they ask those back. And noon mentions that they were and still are denying the ethnic identity of all those hundernds of thousands greeks living in N.Epirus. They even deny them the right to call the land N.Epirus and themselves "albanians of greek origin" as they have agreed with the greek govts. Our prisons are 300% full and the majority of the prisoners being albanian criminals.
Doni
"are going to be decisive in the name dispute and relations with greece. if macedonians don't want albanians, then we can cooperate with greece."
Who exactly told you that we want to cooperate with you?
What makes you being so arrogant and say that if you help the FYROM govt, they will win the name dispute? What makes you think you have all those supernatural powers if not your megalomaniac ego for a great albania that you are willing to take your weapons to succeed in it?
Nikshala
"but simply to secure the rights that any minority deserves in Europe"
Where exaclty in EU does a minority have the right of its own flag and a defacto percentage of public servants? Mention some, I am very curious.
Asking for rights when you deny much less to the people asking them from you. If you are worthy and proud people, you should be the ones asking for no discrimination in FYROM based on ethnicity. You should be the first to say: Since we are all citizens of the same country, we should be treated the same way and then your worthness would be measured. Now you want all for yourselves without sharing a drop of sweat. Great people you are albanians. You should be very proud of yourselves!!!
P.S. Sorry for the explosion, but when I read monstrocities I get really upset :)
at smile,
the Rankovics you just mentioned are the ones you are proud of?? this is what all your nation is rankovics and brankovics.
shame on serbia.
but now the times have changed, we are also 8 millions in the balkans, and with many old and new allies, and when we speak others must listen.
Implicit in all derisive comments, vulgar grk acronym fyrom is first! Yesterday, a postal van was attacked in Skopje suburb Cair ( Albanian ) with 4 workers wounded, one in life threatening situation. Albanian blackmail and racist behaviour will get them nowhere, only deepen the already wide gulf. The inevitable backlash against the albanians is being instigated by the albanians themselves!
Dimitar
It's the nationalists like yourself that cause all the troubles.In yesterdays posting you called all the Albanians parasites,tribaland
fearful of the outside world.
You continued with your tirade by describing the Albanians as uncivilised and
having an inferiority complev against the Slavs.Can
you tell us what exactly your
kind has given to civilisation.The so called
macedonians are the imposters
of history and geography.We
are proud to call ourselves the descentants of illyrians
and our civilisation is well
documented by the world historians. Your opinions on us and those of your compatriots will make it very
difficult for both to line on the same land.
"We
are proud to call ourselves the descentants of illyrians
and our civilisation is well
documented by the world historians. Your opinions on us and those of your compatriots will make it very
difficult for both to line on the same land.
(ahmed, 15 March 2008 00:04)"
I could not but laugh out loud!
you mean, world historians like the Encyclopedia Britannica in it´s edition from 1912?
you must be very frustrated to believe such a nonsense...
you are not descendants of the illyrians, you never were.
your friends the Americans have made that clear in the late 1980´s ...
"Can you tell us what exactly your kind has given to civilisation."
I almost spat tea on the screen when I read this! Are you really asking what the Slavs have given civilization? Are you telling me you have never heard of any of the advances in discovery as a result of Russian, Polish and Serbian scientists, doctors, mathematicians, artists, musicians and leaders?
You should be asking yourself what the Albanians have given the world before asking what any other European group has.
Ahmed, take it easy..
Essentially, here's the root of the problem, as i see it.
This article exposes a few interesting facts about both groups.
Firstly, ironically you consider yourselves Albanians first and foremost. Macedonia seems to be only an inconvenience, and i would take it to the next step, and call Mr.Thaci's actions irresponsible, and self serving. Making demands of the Kosovo issue doesn't solve any of Macedonia's problems.
Secondly, Albanian politics, both in Serbia and Macedonia, seems to be indirectly lined up with nationalistic overtones. Respect for current government seems to be a light switch that gets turned off and on intermittently..
Surely, Macedonia should have known what was waiting for it, when it declared independence from YU, but the Albanians should also stop their rhetoric, and allow for more cool heads to prevail..
Oppression isn't accepted anymore, but neither should taking advantage of a fragile situation in Skopje. Mr. Thaci's agenda doesn't seem very helpful to the people of Macedonia.
My comments re: a closed, fear based society, parasitic attitude on the state are simply facts; a parasite is an alien entity that attaches itself to a host and then feeds on it's life force, to the detriment of the host!
Yes, I am a nationalist because I love my country, and do not accept Albanian blackmail! Why do Macedonians have no problems with Serb, Turk, Vlah or Roma minorities? You tell me!
Gruevski is a Macedonian nationalist who denies the Albanians their rights, LOL! Well, Gruevski is not a murderer like Ali Ahmeti, a war criminal like "The Snake" aka Hashim Taci, Agi Ceku; War criminal, murderer, Menduh Taci; small time criminal, Leka,murderer, Haradinaj; war criminal, murderer, etc. etc. etc. Answer to me about the dossiers of your "leaders" before calling me a "nationalist" who tirades against innocent Albanians, who after all only want a third country!
Ahmed, or whoever... Gruevski is not an American "puddle", unlike the Crvenkovskis, Ahmetis et al; he is the US's worst nightmare because he has Macedonia's interests at heart! This piece of intrigue will play out well for Macedonia yet! Macedonian people are like an experiment; how much stress can a people take? It's a joke! Every day Karamanlis/bakojanni threats, EU threats, US threats, Albanians are ALWAYS threatening... nothing new for us! But we do take exception to Albanian crime/attacks of late, stealing money, hmm, what do they have in mind?
Quite right, I did not know that. Dr. Ferid Murad is his name. I learn something new.
Still, this does not compare even in the slightest to Slavic achievements like man in space, first animal in space, first satellite in space, discovery of radioactivity, modern heliocentric theory of the Solar system, creation of the oil industry, modern alternating current electric power (AC) systems, mine detector, first maps of the moon, the world's first national ministry of education and such, what does Ahmed say?
This is just normal politics. There is a party in the government coalition that makes some demands when they think they have the best opportunity to have them fulfilled. It happens everywhere all the time. It is funny to see that comments go from Macedonian government crisis to who is the best between Slavs or Albanians.
Ahmed,
your relation with illyrians is like the relation of potatoes and chairs. None.
Illyrians were a strong group of small tribes and none of them was in any close or far relation with the albanians. Let it go please.
The last illyrian peoples were eliminated at round 140 bc by the romans.
Greeks name issue with Macedonia can be partialy solved by recognizing Ilirida on the 40% of territory Albanians have historicaly resided in.The other 60% can back to Bulgaria or call itself what ever it wants, if we don't get our national rights respected and represented.
"We
are proud to call ourselves the descentants of illyrians
and our civilisation is well
documented by the world historians. Your opinions on us and those of your compatriots will make it very
difficult for both to line on the same land.
(ahmed, 15 March 2008 00:04)"
As the Americans say -If he wants to be a decendent of an Illyrian let him be an Illyrian decedent!
;)
Macedonia can't continue to ignore the legitimate rights of Albanians who make up 38-40 % of population for usage of Albanian lingua as a second official language and other human rights that were agreed on the Ohri agreement in 2001. If Albanian population is not satisfied with the Ohrid's Agreement level of implementation there will be another ethnic strife, which will put an end not only to Macedonia's prospects to European membership bid but also even its existence. Which way is FYROM going? That of Milosevic?
this is just a show for our friendly macedonian slavs, as well as greeks and serbs gov.
everything is alrady agreed by both sides political leaders. just domestic politics.
As far as Albanians are concerned we need only equal rights, and macedonians will win their name dispute with greece. the result will be same as the visa regime with albania. everything was agreed before hand, but they needed to make a show out of it. Albanians have no intention of spliting for Macedonia, especially now that we will be majority in near future, we need a full functional country. maybe the macedonians want to split??
albanians are friendly majority, and are going to be decisive in the name dispute and relations with greece. if macedonians don't want albanians, then we can cooperate with greece.
All albanians in Macedonia are asking, is for Macedonian authorities ot respect the Ohrid agreement that they signed - nothing more, nothing less.
Its not an attempt to split Macedonia, but simply to secure the rights that any minority deserves in Europe.
Macedonian authorities have been takins some steps back from the Oher agreement in the last few months, and thats the reason for the collapse of the goverment, if that happens.
International communitu should press Macedonia to respect the agreement before things get worse.
Gruevski is playing a dangerous game with the future of Macedonia.Under normal circumstances he would
have compromised with the Albanians and delivered on his signature on the Ohrid Agreement.Instead he would rather see the Albanians alienated and his goverment
collapsing because of the decision to confront Greece on the name game.We're not interested on his dispute with greece because firstly were albanians and his name does't give us any ethnicity.
Secondly, the irony of the name issue is that many slavs
of the VMRO curry Bulgarian
IDS and passports because of
bulgarian ancestry.Thirdly,he
knows that the EU & NATO will
support any existing member
against a third party so he is waisting his time.
Strangely enough the Serbs do
not accuse Gruevski for being
a US puddle over his decision
to send Macedonian soldiers to Iraq & Afganistan .
Are we witnessing the end of FYROM? Now that albanians temporarily have succeded in stealing a part of Serbia, part 1 in Greater Albania goal, they will now start with part 2. First to disolve government in Skopje, then asking for right to have independence from FYROM. If they are not given that "right" a lot of unemployed KLA roughs will start to murder macedonian police and then the civil war will start over again. Albanians have experience in how to get away with this. Bush will probably come to their help against "serbian-macedonian" orthodox threat...
Two points first that Albanians have been encouraged by Kosovo recognition so are quite logically laying down demands in neighbouring countries.
Second point is regional stability. The Croatian government is also is danger of collapsing because of Kosovo and also (ironically) because of EU policy towards that country.
Serbia as we all know has a crisis of its own going on.
By any standards, no matter what you opinion, you have to wonder about how wise it was to recognise Kosovo at this juncture.
This is what the UCK does. They murder police, blackmail the government, and cry to western powers for help when the government tries to stop the UCK from terrorizing their population. I enjoy how Europe attaches all these conditions on Macedonia for recognition of "minority rights", but yet Croatia, the Baltic states, and other pro-European puppet states are rarely if ever criticized for their chauvinistic policies.
Macedonia will not gain anything from recognizing the UCK state. It will become a base by which they will murder Macedonians. They should unite with Serbia against terrorism.
at smile,
the Rankovics you just mentioned are the ones you are proud of?? this is what all your nation is rankovics and brankovics.
shame on serbia.
but now the times have changed, we are also 8 millions in the balkans, and with many old and new allies, and when we speak others must listen.
Dimitar
It's the nationalists like yourself that cause all the troubles.In yesterdays posting you called all the Albanians parasites,tribaland
fearful of the outside world.
You continued with your tirade by describing the Albanians as uncivilised and
having an inferiority complev against the Slavs.Can
you tell us what exactly your
kind has given to civilisation.The so called
macedonians are the imposters
of history and geography.We
are proud to call ourselves the descentants of illyrians
and our civilisation is well
documented by the world historians. Your opinions on us and those of your compatriots will make it very
difficult for both to line on the same land.
Even with Greece they did the same and tried to ask for s.Epiros to unite with albania. They forgot that they were the ones that helped the nazis during ww2 and were murdering greeks in the area. They forget that they followed the nazis in invading Greece, who - as an armed force - was the very first one to stop the axis forces, when one by one the others were opening their gates to the nazi troops? Or do they forget that the yugoslavians and the greeks were the ones defending their lands when the albanians (and some others...) were the ones mrdering partizans? They forget that they were kicked by the greek partizans during ww2. They forget that after the war they were arrested and trialed and were sent back to their country as criminals. They forget that they signed that they do not have or ever have claims on any rights over the properties thay confiscated during the nazi occupation as partners of the nazis. And now they ask those back. And noon mentions that they were and still are denying the ethnic identity of all those hundernds of thousands greeks living in N.Epirus. They even deny them the right to call the land N.Epirus and themselves "albanians of greek origin" as they have agreed with the greek govts. Our prisons are 300% full and the majority of the prisoners being albanian criminals.
Doni
"are going to be decisive in the name dispute and relations with greece. if macedonians don't want albanians, then we can cooperate with greece."
Who exactly told you that we want to cooperate with you?
What makes you being so arrogant and say that if you help the FYROM govt, they will win the name dispute? What makes you think you have all those supernatural powers if not your megalomaniac ego for a great albania that you are willing to take your weapons to succeed in it?
Nikshala
"but simply to secure the rights that any minority deserves in Europe"
Where exaclty in EU does a minority have the right of its own flag and a defacto percentage of public servants? Mention some, I am very curious.
Asking for rights when you deny much less to the people asking them from you. If you are worthy and proud people, you should be the ones asking for no discrimination in FYROM based on ethnicity. You should be the first to say: Since we are all citizens of the same country, we should be treated the same way and then your worthness would be measured. Now you want all for yourselves without sharing a drop of sweat. Great people you are albanians. You should be very proud of yourselves!!!
P.S. Sorry for the explosion, but when I read monstrocities I get really upset :)
My comments re: a closed, fear based society, parasitic attitude on the state are simply facts; a parasite is an alien entity that attaches itself to a host and then feeds on it's life force, to the detriment of the host!
Yes, I am a nationalist because I love my country, and do not accept Albanian blackmail! Why do Macedonians have no problems with Serb, Turk, Vlah or Roma minorities? You tell me!
Gruevski is a Macedonian nationalist who denies the Albanians their rights, LOL! Well, Gruevski is not a murderer like Ali Ahmeti, a war criminal like "The Snake" aka Hashim Taci, Agi Ceku; War criminal, murderer, Menduh Taci; small time criminal, Leka,murderer, Haradinaj; war criminal, murderer, etc. etc. etc. Answer to me about the dossiers of your "leaders" before calling me a "nationalist" who tirades against innocent Albanians, who after all only want a third country!
Greeks name issue with Macedonia can be partialy solved by recognizing Ilirida on the 40% of territory Albanians have historicaly resided in.The other 60% can back to Bulgaria or call itself what ever it wants, if we don't get our national rights respected and represented.
"We
are proud to call ourselves the descentants of illyrians
and our civilisation is well
documented by the world historians. Your opinions on us and those of your compatriots will make it very
difficult for both to line on the same land.
(ahmed, 15 March 2008 00:04)"
I could not but laugh out loud!
you mean, world historians like the Encyclopedia Britannica in it´s edition from 1912?
you must be very frustrated to believe such a nonsense...
you are not descendants of the illyrians, you never were.
your friends the Americans have made that clear in the late 1980´s ...
If Macedonians were smart they would appeal to Belgrade for help. US sold u down the river and now are threatening (indirectly) to tear up your country if you do not recognize Kosovo. CCCC Unite with your Orthodox brothers.
albanians will find that they chose the wrong people(s) to play this game with. in fact, i think they already know, but are trying just the same. now if balkans was inhabited by some ultra-tolerant, ultra-civilized, balmy nations, albanian violence and threats of violence and blackmail would in the short and long term be awarded, and amen. but here in the balkans everyone can play that game. and in the end, the winners will be societies stronger if every sense a society can be strong. albanians measured against their neigbours have many more weaknesses than strengths.
in kosovo, the heart of our serb medieval empire and the religious heartland comparable to jerusalem, serbs were driven out in ww2, by nazis and collaborators. communists afterwards decided to please some of the locals, that is albanians, by not letting serbs return to their homes. then albanians started intimidating and pressuring remaining serbs to move out of their homes and farms in the 1950's, 1960's. then broz, a croat, sacks serbian police minister who was trying to end this albanian violence. then albanians continue with this. in 1974, broz gives them a constitution with wide autonomy. and still in 1980, they organize bloody demonstrations in pristina, because they thought yugoslavia was weak after broz's death and now was the time to break it up and secede. why do i say, now was the time? do i mean that albanians were always secessionists and that it has nothing to do with milosevic and 1999? i do mean that. then, milosevic in 1987 tells kosovo serbs, i will protect you from this terror. then, in 1989, he revokes the 1974 provisions because they only encouraged albanians to try and partition serbia. then they organize a terror group known as kla. entire 1990's, our police patiently tried to restore order there. in 1998 albanians committed war crimes and they are in the hague for this today. and only after this, only after nato attacked serbia, and nato attacked serbia after albanians did war crimes in kosovo, only in 1999, some serbs also committed crimes there. this last act is u.s. justification for awarding albanians with right of secession. it's pathetic of course, and the only flaw in this plan is that serbs will never accept it. that's why we have elections now. because we were not born yesterday as ds would like us to have been. we know what's at stake. and lets not forget 'spontanous' march 2004 crimes, when albanians organized torching of chruches and exile of thousands of serbs to warn the west that they want what's promised them. the west took the cue and so called negotiations with in advance known outcome started. but guess what, one more time, perfect plan with just a tiny flaw: 8 million serbs bang in the middle of the balkans who are saying, NO.
now why do i write all this under macedonia article? because it's one and the same story, to prove a point that kosovo is not a unique case. albanians did not ask independence because of the war in 99, on the contrary, war in 99 happened because of the secessionists' decades long intimidation and terror against the serbs. they dont accept macedonia any more than they do serbia or montenegro. they are in other words behaving illegally. they are out to destroy our states.
and i am completely confident that we will not let them.
Implicit in all derisive comments, vulgar grk acronym fyrom is first! Yesterday, a postal van was attacked in Skopje suburb Cair ( Albanian ) with 4 workers wounded, one in life threatening situation. Albanian blackmail and racist behaviour will get them nowhere, only deepen the already wide gulf. The inevitable backlash against the albanians is being instigated by the albanians themselves!
Ahmed,
your relation with illyrians is like the relation of potatoes and chairs. None.
Illyrians were a strong group of small tribes and none of them was in any close or far relation with the albanians. Let it go please.
The last illyrian peoples were eliminated at round 140 bc by the romans.
Ahmed, take it easy..
Essentially, here's the root of the problem, as i see it.
This article exposes a few interesting facts about both groups.
Firstly, ironically you consider yourselves Albanians first and foremost. Macedonia seems to be only an inconvenience, and i would take it to the next step, and call Mr.Thaci's actions irresponsible, and self serving. Making demands of the Kosovo issue doesn't solve any of Macedonia's problems.
Secondly, Albanian politics, both in Serbia and Macedonia, seems to be indirectly lined up with nationalistic overtones. Respect for current government seems to be a light switch that gets turned off and on intermittently..
Surely, Macedonia should have known what was waiting for it, when it declared independence from YU, but the Albanians should also stop their rhetoric, and allow for more cool heads to prevail..
Oppression isn't accepted anymore, but neither should taking advantage of a fragile situation in Skopje. Mr. Thaci's agenda doesn't seem very helpful to the people of Macedonia.
"Can you tell us what exactly your kind has given to civilisation."
I almost spat tea on the screen when I read this! Are you really asking what the Slavs have given civilization? Are you telling me you have never heard of any of the advances in discovery as a result of Russian, Polish and Serbian scientists, doctors, mathematicians, artists, musicians and leaders?
You should be asking yourself what the Albanians have given the world before asking what any other European group has.
Ahmed, or whoever... Gruevski is not an American "puddle", unlike the Crvenkovskis, Ahmetis et al; he is the US's worst nightmare because he has Macedonia's interests at heart! This piece of intrigue will play out well for Macedonia yet! Macedonian people are like an experiment; how much stress can a people take? It's a joke! Every day Karamanlis/bakojanni threats, EU threats, US threats, Albanians are ALWAYS threatening... nothing new for us! But we do take exception to Albanian crime/attacks of late, stealing money, hmm, what do they have in mind?
"We
are proud to call ourselves the descentants of illyrians
and our civilisation is well
documented by the world historians. Your opinions on us and those of your compatriots will make it very
difficult for both to line on the same land.
(ahmed, 15 March 2008 00:04)"
As the Americans say -If he wants to be a decendent of an Illyrian let him be an Illyrian decedent!
;)
Quite right, I did not know that. Dr. Ferid Murad is his name. I learn something new.
Still, this does not compare even in the slightest to Slavic achievements like man in space, first animal in space, first satellite in space, discovery of radioactivity, modern heliocentric theory of the Solar system, creation of the oil industry, modern alternating current electric power (AC) systems, mine detector, first maps of the moon, the world's first national ministry of education and such, what does Ahmed say?
This is just normal politics. There is a party in the government coalition that makes some demands when they think they have the best opportunity to have them fulfilled. It happens everywhere all the time. It is funny to see that comments go from Macedonian government crisis to who is the best between Slavs or Albanians.
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