"It is very evident that Economic Force is being driven at the remaining countries that have yet to recognize KOSOVO.
Why does not the USA put pressure on China, India and Russia and then put that in the NEWS?
(Another Canadian Serb, 15 March 2008 13:45) "
Well let me answer by following your logic since you talk about Economic Force. US does not force India, Russia, or China because they are rich countries and they cannot crumble to the US pressure. However if that was the case I cannot be more amazed how Cyprus and Slovakia are able to sustain all this Economic Force being directed at them from the EU powers and the US, given that to their standards and the standards of Japan both Slovakia and Cyprus are dirt-poor. Then obviously a reasonable person can see that there is something wrong with this theory of Economic Force against all of those who do not recognize Kosova/o.
"Serbia had won both World War I & II and was forced to live with all Croation, Albanian and Slovenians. The Serbs were forced to live and integrate with their enemies, all the while Serbia's internal borders were being shifted."
For a moment I read this and I thought about how your answer goes against what I said. Read it again just to make sure I get your point. Well from what you said above you agree with me that Jugoslavia was a forceful creation; just like you say because the Serbs were forced to live and integrate with their enemies. Well as an Albanian I can tell you that we were also forced in being part of Jugoslavia. Not in a million years would we as Albanians willingly chose to live in the same country and under the same roof as Serbia. Now since we both agree with that then you should have no problem with my comment about bmruslia's post. As you stated, Jugoslavia was a forceful creation hence that is why it did not last.
How long will Kosova/o last as we see it today? Well we will wait and see. If it is indeed forceful then we will see it partition just like Jugoslavia did. However you will not be able to see the Albanian inhabited parts of Kosova/o within Serbia, because just like you and our poster bmrusila state, that would be a forceful creation and it would not last and would end up just like Jugoslavia.
You, the Serbs, have played your cards really bad this time. If you had played them right you would have had all the Serbian inhabited parts of Kosova/o within Serbia today. There would be no need for protests against UNMIK or anything like that. You played an all or nothing game and since the situation fits I would say Serbia played a Russian roulette game, literally , and so far you got nothing. The fate of the Serbs in Kosova/o is worse than that of N. Cyprus. So enthusiastically your politicians trumpeted how Kosova/o would end up being like N.Cyprus or Hong Kong at best. Well imagine how it is to be like a Hong Kong inside Hong Kong or a N. Cyprus inside N.Cyprus where nobody in the international community even recognizes the fact you exist as a separate entity within a separate entity that is recognized by some. That is what your irresponsible politicians did to their own brothers in Kosova/o, and that is simply because they believe in myths rather then stop for a moment and see what the reality in the ground is.
johny!johny!johny!
You should read all lines from your History Text because your statement in response to bmrusila is infactual "I cannot and therefore firmly believe that every forceful creation will end up and disappear the same way as was created.
(bmrusila, 14 March 2008 12:38) "
I thought you were talking about Jugoslavia there for a moment. Pretty short-lived creation in terms of historical time frame. Take NATO out and replace Kosova/o with Jugoslavia and everything you said remains true."
Serbia had won both World War I & II and was forced to live with all Croation, Albanian and Slovenians. The Serbs were forced to live and integrate with their enemies, all the while Serbia's internal borders were being shifted. Your attempts in stating that the USA are not forcing countries to recognize Kosovo's UDI are futile. Firstly, it was the USA that ripped Kosovo from Serbia with force. Secondly, what would you call it when one nation pressures another nation to recognize an illegal entity?
- Coercion
- Negotiating
- Strong Arming
- Influencing
or as you may seem to think
MUTUALLY AGREEING
It is very evident that Economic Force is being driven at the remaining countries that have yet to recognize KOSOVO.
Why does not the USA put pressure on China, India and Russia and then put that in the NEWS?
Canada will recognize Kosova/o sooner or later no doubt about that. Dion the head of Liberals the second biggest party in Canada requested to do so. The ruling party Conservatives are not in a hurry. Canada is never in a hurry, its for what we are known best. In the end it will do whatever the majority of Western States do. Kosova/o case is not a make or brake deal for Quebec, there is just no comparisons between the two. If Serbia treated Kosova/o from the beginning like Canada treated and treats Quebec it would be a total different story.
As for Japan I just copied and pasted this from Wikipedia:
Japan will carefully examine whether Kosovo meets all the requirements for a state, but is poised to recognize it in general, Chief Cabinet Secretary Nobutaka Machimura told a press conference. He said the Japanese government is "moving toward recognizing" Kosovo since the progress seen was in line with Japan's criteria for recognizing states. "We do not intend to prolong the situation unnecessarily, nor do we intend to rush through this process.", said Minister for Foreign Affairs Masahiko Koumura on 19 February 2008. During talks with the President of Croatia on March 5th, Prime Minister Yasuo Fukuda mentioned the review is still taking place, but recognition is likely.
I think for Kosova/o the most important states left would be Macedonia, Montenegro and Croatia.
I say just wait and see, who is in a hurry anyway?
"#26 Even if Kosovo would be allowed to be in the Olympics, what sports would they participate in? The things they are good at (and "well"-known for) are not considered official sports (it may be to them).
(Jan (Amsterdam)"
i wonder if b92 could possibly explain this nice little comment to me, considering how very picky you are about which
comments you include, and which you don't. silly me, but with all of my degrees and experience, i just don't quite "get" the meaning behind the comment. is "Jan from amsterdam" referring to, say, soccer?? or basketball? softball, perhaps?? or is it something just a teeny bit more nefarious, and, say, oh -- another ETHNIC SLUR!? are we trafficking, by any chance, in ETHNIC SLURS?? or is it just me -- really, i need some bright young journalist at b92 to answer this for me, because with all of my american naivete and ignorance, i just don't know.
and here, b92, i've always trusted your high integrity and standards so very much...
Both USA and Japan already reconcilated about the WWII. That's what normal civilized people do. You forgive and forgot things done in the past, when the situation pushed you to extremes.
"Pressure, pressure, threats, threats and finally force and force to recognise freaking NATO puppet state. Every step taken by far in regard to Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija was illegal and forceful. Can anyone imagine any prosperity of such a creation?? I cannot and therefore firmly believe that every forceful creation will end up and disappear the same way as was created.
(bmrusila, 14 March 2008 12:38) "
I thought you were talking about Jugoslavia there for a moment. Pretty short-lived creation in terms of historical time frame. Take NATO out and replace Kosova/o with Jugoslavia and everything you said remains true.
As to this absurdity of the US forcing other countries to recognize Kosova is just foolishness. Is Slovakia such a strong country that the US couldn't force it. Is Cyprus such a strong country that the US couldn't force it. Both of these countries' world political weight is probably less then the relevance that the boroughs Queens and Brooklyn have in international politics. One then can only wonder about this supposed force being directed from America.
Slovakia and Cyprus are the best examples of this fabrication about countries being forced to recognize independence. If these featherweights are saying no, then nobody can force or make the gorilla's of G8 do anything they do not approve of or don't want to do.
as you said ahmed money, they will recognize but they will pay pay very high price for they choise are they ready to do it??look the financial crisis around, you like it ?? yes?? like Lavrof said europe is here america is there , americans they will not loose for everything european countries will feel the wave of disaster
#26 Even if Kosovo would be allowed to be in the Olympics, what sports would they participate in? The things they are good at (and "well"-known for) are not considered official sports (it may be to them).
No Olympics for Kosovo see link > http://www.russiatoday.ru/sports/news/22122
No UN for Kosovo. No World Bank for Kosovo. No FIFA for Kosovo. No NATO for Kosovo. And No EU for Kosovo.
There is however plenty of crime in Kosovo and people living off of handouts by the international community where the average Albanian in Kosovo gets by on less than 3 Euros per day. There is over 50% unemployment in Kosovo and ZERO pension for Albanian Seniors. And no one really knows how low the literacy rate among Albanians is, by most accounts its not very good.
In addition, Kosovo will have a passport that less than 30 countries in the world will recognize and even those 30 will not allow the Albanians in without a VISA which will be impossible to get. The Muslim Kosovars are being herded into a land pocket known as Kosovo just like the American Indians were 150 years ago. For an Albanian to think he/she has Independence now is ridicules and quite foolish but if it makes them feel better than all the power to them.
I feel sorry for the more than 400,000 young Albanian children that will have little or no future prospect.
well, I think the Japanese have not forgotten who dropped nuclear-bombs on civilians...
(Jovan, 14 March 2008 20:20)
not too worry...i'm sure the americans do not forget that japan, via sneak attack, started the war at pearl harbor that led to the eventual use of the atomic bomb (not today's nukes) on their mainland.
those bombs saved AMERICAN lives which was in america's self intertest. a ground invasion would've cost hundreds of thousands of lives on both sides.
bjorn
I dont remember you being recognized by the UN. So you are still a Serbian citizen. CCCC
(Cvele, 14 March 2008 19:21)
it's gjon (john) in albanian and i'm not from kosove but i am albanian and my parents are from southern montenegro and both my countries (USA and ALBANIA)are recognized so i'm not sure what you're carrying on about but good luck to you and your four "C's."
Given that Canada gave the US the finger vis-à-vis Iraq, and has a history of (mostly) taking its cue from UN concensus, I really can't see them recognising Kosovo's UDI any time soon, thankfully.
I don't understand this piece of news from Tanjug. Japan has said they will recognize the independence since the beginning. Saudi Arabia too and other states that haven't done so yet. Will Tanjug say that these states are pressured too?
first kosovo would NEVER receive a "republic" status. then there was NEVER any ethnic cleansing or mass murder committed. followed by kosovo will NEVER be independent and a host of others NEVERS that all eventually came to fruition just like the eventual recognition by canada and many other nations.
Afghanistan, a country occupied by the US and NATO, is the first to recognize the illegal UDI. No surprise here.
On Jan. 26, 2008 it was reported on B92..."publication of transcripts of a conversation between Slovenian Foreign Ministry official Mitje Drobniča and members of the U.S. administration in Ljubljana daily Dnevnik, where it is alleged that the U.S. has, among other things, asked Slovenia to be the first to recognize Kosovo.
“Publication of internal diplomatic documentation, which happened to [Foreign Minister] Dimitrij Rupel], is a big blow not only to our credibility, but also to the functioning and standing of the Slovenian EU presidency,” said Kacin"
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=01&dd=26&nav_id=47246
Three days later the Policy Director at the Slovenian Foreign Ministry resigned.
Threats, lies and intimidation-divide and conquer-are unfortunately part of US foreign policy.
The biggest trading partners for the Canadians and the Japanese are the US and the EU.There is not such a thing as morality in politics.Money
and trade are the deciding factors in international relations.It's always been the case and always will be.So read my lips both Canada and Japan will recognise Kosova in the very near futere.
(ahmed, 14 March 2008 12:35)
It's true that there is a lot of pressure from the U.S. gov't and Canada's has opposition parties that are keen to recognize Kosovo, so there is still a good possibility that Canada will recognize Kosovo. However, it doesn't change the fact that the majority of Canadians that I have spoken to still see Kosovo as Serbia. (and G8 recognition still does not mean anything when resolution 1244 is still in place).
To date only 27 countries have recognized Kosovo out of 192 that is 14% and quite frankly maybe another 5 or 6 will during this year which will be well under 20% of the world's countries in total, this is hardly a victory for Independence.
This 100 country number being mentioned so much is complete and utter nonsense.
Kosovo will not have any membership with any World organization, ever! It will not have foreign investment. It will in fact be a crime infested illegal state poorer than Albania proper with little prospect of guilty life.
I don't understand the whining of some of the posters here. I did not read anything about any threats of violence in this article.
Pressure implies "diplomatic" pressure...perfectly OK in world affairs. Serbia is doing the same thing by threatening to downgrade diplomatic ties with countries that intend to recognize Kosovo. Russia is exerting pressure on NATO by meddling in Georgia (Abkhazia and Osetia) even though Georgia had nothing to do with the Kosovo declaration of independence.
Japan will decide for itself and reap the benefits (or pay the price) diplomatically speaking. That's the essence of democracy. Freedom of choice and (the other side of the coin)..owning up to the consequences of the choices you make.
The biggest trading partners for the Canadians and the Japanese are the US and the EU.There is not such a thing as morality in politics.Money
and trade are the deciding factors in international relations.It's always been the case and always will be.So read my lips both Canada and Japan will recognise Kosova in the very near futere.
(ahmed, 14 March 2008 12:35)
Am trying to but can't see your face.. faces? :)
Japan may very well do so although if 'diplomats' from 'brussels' get involved.. who knows?
Canada won't.
And isn't a question of money & trade.
"Peter,
Why do you say that Japan is being threatened?
I cant see it anywhere on the thread
(Astro, 14 March 2008 14:47)
Why do you say that I say that Japan is being threatened?
Pressure, pressure, threats, threats and finally force and force (bmrusila, 14 March 2008 12:38)
looking back at the balkans in the 1990's, these things that you've mentioned seem to me to be a very familiar to us but they all came out of belgrade.
EU countries can safely recognise Kosovo but others cannot. Why? Because unlike EU they don't have easy exit strategy. Remember EU hasn't recognised Kosovo and never will so one day when it suits them they will simply issue a directive to all member states that their individual recognitions were illegal and hence have to be revoked. Easy and non-humiliating for them but not so easy for non-EU countries.
Pressure, pressure, threats, threats and finally force and force to recognise freaking NATO puppet state. Every step taken by far in regard to Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija was illegal and forceful. Can anyone imagine any prosperity of such a creation?? I cannot and therefore firmly believe that every forceful creation will end up and disappear the same way as was created.
(bmrusila, 14 March 2008 12:38)
bmrusila,
I am a Kosovan and I dont recall anybody forcing me or any other Kosovan to Declare Independence. Threr fore we were not forced.
Pressure, pressure, threats, threats and finally force and force to recognise freaking NATO puppet state. Every step taken by far in regard to Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija was illegal and forceful. Can anyone imagine any prosperity of such a creation?? I cannot and therefore firmly believe that every forceful creation will end up and disappear the same way as was created.
(bmrusila, 14 March 2008 12:38)
Peter,
Why do you say that Japan is being threatened?
I cant see it anywhere on the thread
I don't see how Japan can be pressured into anything, they are the second strongest economy in the world, how can anyone possibly threaten them, and over Kosovo of all things?
Every state has the right to decide whether or not they wish to recognize Kosovo and for whatever reason. No one has the right to pressure anybody, the US is not the world police, they are just another state on earth, with equal rights as Kiribati when it comes to recognizing Kosovo or not recognizing it.
If this isn't a sign that something isn't right, then I don't know what is. Even blind Freddy can see that there must be something seriously wrong if you're fiercely pressuring other countries to recognise the UDI? One has to ask themselves, why is this agenda of Kosovo being to forcefully pushed on onto other nations? Hypothetically speaking, if I don't want to do something, who are you to tell me I HAVE to?
Pressure, pressure, threats, threats and finally force and force to recognise freaking NATO puppet state. Every step taken by far in regard to Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija was illegal and forceful. Can anyone imagine any prosperity of such a creation?? I cannot and therefore firmly believe that every forceful creation will end up and disappear the same way as was created.
The biggest trading partners for the Canadians and the Japanese are the US and the EU.There is not such a thing as morality in politics.Money
and trade are the deciding factors in international relations.It's always been the case and always will be.So read my lips both Canada and Japan will recognise Kosova in the very near futere.
Pressure, pressure, threats, threats and finally force and force to recognise freaking NATO puppet state. Every step taken by far in regard to Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija was illegal and forceful. Can anyone imagine any prosperity of such a creation?? I cannot and therefore firmly believe that every forceful creation will end up and disappear the same way as was created.
Afghanistan, a country occupied by the US and NATO, is the first to recognize the illegal UDI. No surprise here.
On Jan. 26, 2008 it was reported on B92..."publication of transcripts of a conversation between Slovenian Foreign Ministry official Mitje Drobniča and members of the U.S. administration in Ljubljana daily Dnevnik, where it is alleged that the U.S. has, among other things, asked Slovenia to be the first to recognize Kosovo.
“Publication of internal diplomatic documentation, which happened to [Foreign Minister] Dimitrij Rupel], is a big blow not only to our credibility, but also to the functioning and standing of the Slovenian EU presidency,” said Kacin"
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=01&dd=26&nav_id=47246
Three days later the Policy Director at the Slovenian Foreign Ministry resigned.
Threats, lies and intimidation-divide and conquer-are unfortunately part of US foreign policy.
I don't see how Japan can be pressured into anything, they are the second strongest economy in the world, how can anyone possibly threaten them, and over Kosovo of all things?
Every state has the right to decide whether or not they wish to recognize Kosovo and for whatever reason. No one has the right to pressure anybody, the US is not the world police, they are just another state on earth, with equal rights as Kiribati when it comes to recognizing Kosovo or not recognizing it.
If this isn't a sign that something isn't right, then I don't know what is. Even blind Freddy can see that there must be something seriously wrong if you're fiercely pressuring other countries to recognise the UDI? One has to ask themselves, why is this agenda of Kosovo being to forcefully pushed on onto other nations? Hypothetically speaking, if I don't want to do something, who are you to tell me I HAVE to?
EU countries can safely recognise Kosovo but others cannot. Why? Because unlike EU they don't have easy exit strategy. Remember EU hasn't recognised Kosovo and never will so one day when it suits them they will simply issue a directive to all member states that their individual recognitions were illegal and hence have to be revoked. Easy and non-humiliating for them but not so easy for non-EU countries.
To date only 27 countries have recognized Kosovo out of 192 that is 14% and quite frankly maybe another 5 or 6 will during this year which will be well under 20% of the world's countries in total, this is hardly a victory for Independence.
This 100 country number being mentioned so much is complete and utter nonsense.
Kosovo will not have any membership with any World organization, ever! It will not have foreign investment. It will in fact be a crime infested illegal state poorer than Albania proper with little prospect of guilty life.
The biggest trading partners for the Canadians and the Japanese are the US and the EU.There is not such a thing as morality in politics.Money
and trade are the deciding factors in international relations.It's always been the case and always will be.So read my lips both Canada and Japan will recognise Kosova in the very near futere.
(ahmed, 14 March 2008 12:35)
It's true that there is a lot of pressure from the U.S. gov't and Canada's has opposition parties that are keen to recognize Kosovo, so there is still a good possibility that Canada will recognize Kosovo. However, it doesn't change the fact that the majority of Canadians that I have spoken to still see Kosovo as Serbia. (and G8 recognition still does not mean anything when resolution 1244 is still in place).
The biggest trading partners for the Canadians and the Japanese are the US and the EU.There is not such a thing as morality in politics.Money
and trade are the deciding factors in international relations.It's always been the case and always will be.So read my lips both Canada and Japan will recognise Kosova in the very near futere.
Given that Canada gave the US the finger vis-à-vis Iraq, and has a history of (mostly) taking its cue from UN concensus, I really can't see them recognising Kosovo's UDI any time soon, thankfully.
No Olympics for Kosovo see link > http://www.russiatoday.ru/sports/news/22122
No UN for Kosovo. No World Bank for Kosovo. No FIFA for Kosovo. No NATO for Kosovo. And No EU for Kosovo.
There is however plenty of crime in Kosovo and people living off of handouts by the international community where the average Albanian in Kosovo gets by on less than 3 Euros per day. There is over 50% unemployment in Kosovo and ZERO pension for Albanian Seniors. And no one really knows how low the literacy rate among Albanians is, by most accounts its not very good.
In addition, Kosovo will have a passport that less than 30 countries in the world will recognize and even those 30 will not allow the Albanians in without a VISA which will be impossible to get. The Muslim Kosovars are being herded into a land pocket known as Kosovo just like the American Indians were 150 years ago. For an Albanian to think he/she has Independence now is ridicules and quite foolish but if it makes them feel better than all the power to them.
I feel sorry for the more than 400,000 young Albanian children that will have little or no future prospect.
first kosovo would NEVER receive a "republic" status. then there was NEVER any ethnic cleansing or mass murder committed. followed by kosovo will NEVER be independent and a host of others NEVERS that all eventually came to fruition just like the eventual recognition by canada and many other nations.
The biggest trading partners for the Canadians and the Japanese are the US and the EU.There is not such a thing as morality in politics.Money
and trade are the deciding factors in international relations.It's always been the case and always will be.So read my lips both Canada and Japan will recognise Kosova in the very near futere.
(ahmed, 14 March 2008 12:35)
Am trying to but can't see your face.. faces? :)
Japan may very well do so although if 'diplomats' from 'brussels' get involved.. who knows?
Canada won't.
And isn't a question of money & trade.
"Peter,
Why do you say that Japan is being threatened?
I cant see it anywhere on the thread
(Astro, 14 March 2008 14:47)
Why do you say that I say that Japan is being threatened?
Pressure, pressure, threats, threats and finally force and force (bmrusila, 14 March 2008 12:38)
looking back at the balkans in the 1990's, these things that you've mentioned seem to me to be a very familiar to us but they all came out of belgrade.
Pressure, pressure, threats, threats and finally force and force to recognise freaking NATO puppet state. Every step taken by far in regard to Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija was illegal and forceful. Can anyone imagine any prosperity of such a creation?? I cannot and therefore firmly believe that every forceful creation will end up and disappear the same way as was created.
(bmrusila, 14 March 2008 12:38)
bmrusila,
I am a Kosovan and I dont recall anybody forcing me or any other Kosovan to Declare Independence. Threr fore we were not forced.
Pressure, pressure, threats, threats and finally force and force to recognise freaking NATO puppet state. Every step taken by far in regard to Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija was illegal and forceful. Can anyone imagine any prosperity of such a creation?? I cannot and therefore firmly believe that every forceful creation will end up and disappear the same way as was created.
(bmrusila, 14 March 2008 12:38)
Peter,
Why do you say that Japan is being threatened?
I cant see it anywhere on the thread
I don't understand the whining of some of the posters here. I did not read anything about any threats of violence in this article.
Pressure implies "diplomatic" pressure...perfectly OK in world affairs. Serbia is doing the same thing by threatening to downgrade diplomatic ties with countries that intend to recognize Kosovo. Russia is exerting pressure on NATO by meddling in Georgia (Abkhazia and Osetia) even though Georgia had nothing to do with the Kosovo declaration of independence.
Japan will decide for itself and reap the benefits (or pay the price) diplomatically speaking. That's the essence of democracy. Freedom of choice and (the other side of the coin)..owning up to the consequences of the choices you make.
#26 Even if Kosovo would be allowed to be in the Olympics, what sports would they participate in? The things they are good at (and "well"-known for) are not considered official sports (it may be to them).
johny!johny!johny!
You should read all lines from your History Text because your statement in response to bmrusila is infactual "I cannot and therefore firmly believe that every forceful creation will end up and disappear the same way as was created.
(bmrusila, 14 March 2008 12:38) "
I thought you were talking about Jugoslavia there for a moment. Pretty short-lived creation in terms of historical time frame. Take NATO out and replace Kosova/o with Jugoslavia and everything you said remains true."
Serbia had won both World War I & II and was forced to live with all Croation, Albanian and Slovenians. The Serbs were forced to live and integrate with their enemies, all the while Serbia's internal borders were being shifted. Your attempts in stating that the USA are not forcing countries to recognize Kosovo's UDI are futile. Firstly, it was the USA that ripped Kosovo from Serbia with force. Secondly, what would you call it when one nation pressures another nation to recognize an illegal entity?
- Coercion
- Negotiating
- Strong Arming
- Influencing
or as you may seem to think
MUTUALLY AGREEING
It is very evident that Economic Force is being driven at the remaining countries that have yet to recognize KOSOVO.
Why does not the USA put pressure on China, India and Russia and then put that in the NEWS?
bjorn
I dont remember you being recognized by the UN. So you are still a Serbian citizen. CCCC
(Cvele, 14 March 2008 19:21)
it's gjon (john) in albanian and i'm not from kosove but i am albanian and my parents are from southern montenegro and both my countries (USA and ALBANIA)are recognized so i'm not sure what you're carrying on about but good luck to you and your four "C's."
well, I think the Japanese have not forgotten who dropped nuclear-bombs on civilians...
(Jovan, 14 March 2008 20:20)
not too worry...i'm sure the americans do not forget that japan, via sneak attack, started the war at pearl harbor that led to the eventual use of the atomic bomb (not today's nukes) on their mainland.
those bombs saved AMERICAN lives which was in america's self intertest. a ground invasion would've cost hundreds of thousands of lives on both sides.
as you said ahmed money, they will recognize but they will pay pay very high price for they choise are they ready to do it??look the financial crisis around, you like it ?? yes?? like Lavrof said europe is here america is there , americans they will not loose for everything european countries will feel the wave of disaster
"#26 Even if Kosovo would be allowed to be in the Olympics, what sports would they participate in? The things they are good at (and "well"-known for) are not considered official sports (it may be to them).
(Jan (Amsterdam)"
i wonder if b92 could possibly explain this nice little comment to me, considering how very picky you are about which
comments you include, and which you don't. silly me, but with all of my degrees and experience, i just don't quite "get" the meaning behind the comment. is "Jan from amsterdam" referring to, say, soccer?? or basketball? softball, perhaps?? or is it something just a teeny bit more nefarious, and, say, oh -- another ETHNIC SLUR!? are we trafficking, by any chance, in ETHNIC SLURS?? or is it just me -- really, i need some bright young journalist at b92 to answer this for me, because with all of my american naivete and ignorance, i just don't know.
and here, b92, i've always trusted your high integrity and standards so very much...
I don't understand this piece of news from Tanjug. Japan has said they will recognize the independence since the beginning. Saudi Arabia too and other states that haven't done so yet. Will Tanjug say that these states are pressured too?
Both USA and Japan already reconcilated about the WWII. That's what normal civilized people do. You forgive and forgot things done in the past, when the situation pushed you to extremes.
Canada will recognize Kosova/o sooner or later no doubt about that. Dion the head of Liberals the second biggest party in Canada requested to do so. The ruling party Conservatives are not in a hurry. Canada is never in a hurry, its for what we are known best. In the end it will do whatever the majority of Western States do. Kosova/o case is not a make or brake deal for Quebec, there is just no comparisons between the two. If Serbia treated Kosova/o from the beginning like Canada treated and treats Quebec it would be a total different story.
As for Japan I just copied and pasted this from Wikipedia:
Japan will carefully examine whether Kosovo meets all the requirements for a state, but is poised to recognize it in general, Chief Cabinet Secretary Nobutaka Machimura told a press conference. He said the Japanese government is "moving toward recognizing" Kosovo since the progress seen was in line with Japan's criteria for recognizing states. "We do not intend to prolong the situation unnecessarily, nor do we intend to rush through this process.", said Minister for Foreign Affairs Masahiko Koumura on 19 February 2008. During talks with the President of Croatia on March 5th, Prime Minister Yasuo Fukuda mentioned the review is still taking place, but recognition is likely.
I think for Kosova/o the most important states left would be Macedonia, Montenegro and Croatia.
I say just wait and see, who is in a hurry anyway?
"It is very evident that Economic Force is being driven at the remaining countries that have yet to recognize KOSOVO.
Why does not the USA put pressure on China, India and Russia and then put that in the NEWS?
(Another Canadian Serb, 15 March 2008 13:45) "
Well let me answer by following your logic since you talk about Economic Force. US does not force India, Russia, or China because they are rich countries and they cannot crumble to the US pressure. However if that was the case I cannot be more amazed how Cyprus and Slovakia are able to sustain all this Economic Force being directed at them from the EU powers and the US, given that to their standards and the standards of Japan both Slovakia and Cyprus are dirt-poor. Then obviously a reasonable person can see that there is something wrong with this theory of Economic Force against all of those who do not recognize Kosova/o.
"Serbia had won both World War I & II and was forced to live with all Croation, Albanian and Slovenians. The Serbs were forced to live and integrate with their enemies, all the while Serbia's internal borders were being shifted."
For a moment I read this and I thought about how your answer goes against what I said. Read it again just to make sure I get your point. Well from what you said above you agree with me that Jugoslavia was a forceful creation; just like you say because the Serbs were forced to live and integrate with their enemies. Well as an Albanian I can tell you that we were also forced in being part of Jugoslavia. Not in a million years would we as Albanians willingly chose to live in the same country and under the same roof as Serbia. Now since we both agree with that then you should have no problem with my comment about bmruslia's post. As you stated, Jugoslavia was a forceful creation hence that is why it did not last.
How long will Kosova/o last as we see it today? Well we will wait and see. If it is indeed forceful then we will see it partition just like Jugoslavia did. However you will not be able to see the Albanian inhabited parts of Kosova/o within Serbia, because just like you and our poster bmrusila state, that would be a forceful creation and it would not last and would end up just like Jugoslavia.
You, the Serbs, have played your cards really bad this time. If you had played them right you would have had all the Serbian inhabited parts of Kosova/o within Serbia today. There would be no need for protests against UNMIK or anything like that. You played an all or nothing game and since the situation fits I would say Serbia played a Russian roulette game, literally , and so far you got nothing. The fate of the Serbs in Kosova/o is worse than that of N. Cyprus. So enthusiastically your politicians trumpeted how Kosova/o would end up being like N.Cyprus or Hong Kong at best. Well imagine how it is to be like a Hong Kong inside Hong Kong or a N. Cyprus inside N.Cyprus where nobody in the international community even recognizes the fact you exist as a separate entity within a separate entity that is recognized by some. That is what your irresponsible politicians did to their own brothers in Kosova/o, and that is simply because they believe in myths rather then stop for a moment and see what the reality in the ground is.
"Pressure, pressure, threats, threats and finally force and force to recognise freaking NATO puppet state. Every step taken by far in regard to Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija was illegal and forceful. Can anyone imagine any prosperity of such a creation?? I cannot and therefore firmly believe that every forceful creation will end up and disappear the same way as was created.
(bmrusila, 14 March 2008 12:38) "
I thought you were talking about Jugoslavia there for a moment. Pretty short-lived creation in terms of historical time frame. Take NATO out and replace Kosova/o with Jugoslavia and everything you said remains true.
As to this absurdity of the US forcing other countries to recognize Kosova is just foolishness. Is Slovakia such a strong country that the US couldn't force it. Is Cyprus such a strong country that the US couldn't force it. Both of these countries' world political weight is probably less then the relevance that the boroughs Queens and Brooklyn have in international politics. One then can only wonder about this supposed force being directed from America.
Slovakia and Cyprus are the best examples of this fabrication about countries being forced to recognize independence. If these featherweights are saying no, then nobody can force or make the gorilla's of G8 do anything they do not approve of or don't want to do.
The biggest trading partners for the Canadians and the Japanese are the US and the EU.There is not such a thing as morality in politics.Money
and trade are the deciding factors in international relations.It's always been the case and always will be.So read my lips both Canada and Japan will recognise Kosova in the very near futere.
Pressure, pressure, threats, threats and finally force and force (bmrusila, 14 March 2008 12:38)
looking back at the balkans in the 1990's, these things that you've mentioned seem to me to be a very familiar to us but they all came out of belgrade.
Pressure, pressure, threats, threats and finally force and force to recognise freaking NATO puppet state. Every step taken by far in regard to Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija was illegal and forceful. Can anyone imagine any prosperity of such a creation?? I cannot and therefore firmly believe that every forceful creation will end up and disappear the same way as was created.
(bmrusila, 14 March 2008 12:38)
bmrusila,
I am a Kosovan and I dont recall anybody forcing me or any other Kosovan to Declare Independence. Threr fore we were not forced.
Pressure, pressure, threats, threats and finally force and force to recognise freaking NATO puppet state. Every step taken by far in regard to Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija was illegal and forceful. Can anyone imagine any prosperity of such a creation?? I cannot and therefore firmly believe that every forceful creation will end up and disappear the same way as was created.
(bmrusila, 14 March 2008 12:38)
Peter,
Why do you say that Japan is being threatened?
I cant see it anywhere on the thread
I don't understand the whining of some of the posters here. I did not read anything about any threats of violence in this article.
Pressure implies "diplomatic" pressure...perfectly OK in world affairs. Serbia is doing the same thing by threatening to downgrade diplomatic ties with countries that intend to recognize Kosovo. Russia is exerting pressure on NATO by meddling in Georgia (Abkhazia and Osetia) even though Georgia had nothing to do with the Kosovo declaration of independence.
Japan will decide for itself and reap the benefits (or pay the price) diplomatically speaking. That's the essence of democracy. Freedom of choice and (the other side of the coin)..owning up to the consequences of the choices you make.
I don't understand this piece of news from Tanjug. Japan has said they will recognize the independence since the beginning. Saudi Arabia too and other states that haven't done so yet. Will Tanjug say that these states are pressured too?
first kosovo would NEVER receive a "republic" status. then there was NEVER any ethnic cleansing or mass murder committed. followed by kosovo will NEVER be independent and a host of others NEVERS that all eventually came to fruition just like the eventual recognition by canada and many other nations.
No Olympics for Kosovo see link > http://www.russiatoday.ru/sports/news/22122
No UN for Kosovo. No World Bank for Kosovo. No FIFA for Kosovo. No NATO for Kosovo. And No EU for Kosovo.
There is however plenty of crime in Kosovo and people living off of handouts by the international community where the average Albanian in Kosovo gets by on less than 3 Euros per day. There is over 50% unemployment in Kosovo and ZERO pension for Albanian Seniors. And no one really knows how low the literacy rate among Albanians is, by most accounts its not very good.
In addition, Kosovo will have a passport that less than 30 countries in the world will recognize and even those 30 will not allow the Albanians in without a VISA which will be impossible to get. The Muslim Kosovars are being herded into a land pocket known as Kosovo just like the American Indians were 150 years ago. For an Albanian to think he/she has Independence now is ridicules and quite foolish but if it makes them feel better than all the power to them.
I feel sorry for the more than 400,000 young Albanian children that will have little or no future prospect.
If this isn't a sign that something isn't right, then I don't know what is. Even blind Freddy can see that there must be something seriously wrong if you're fiercely pressuring other countries to recognise the UDI? One has to ask themselves, why is this agenda of Kosovo being to forcefully pushed on onto other nations? Hypothetically speaking, if I don't want to do something, who are you to tell me I HAVE to?
well, I think the Japanese have not forgotten who dropped nuclear-bombs on civilians...
(Jovan, 14 March 2008 20:20)
not too worry...i'm sure the americans do not forget that japan, via sneak attack, started the war at pearl harbor that led to the eventual use of the atomic bomb (not today's nukes) on their mainland.
those bombs saved AMERICAN lives which was in america's self intertest. a ground invasion would've cost hundreds of thousands of lives on both sides.
EU countries can safely recognise Kosovo but others cannot. Why? Because unlike EU they don't have easy exit strategy. Remember EU hasn't recognised Kosovo and never will so one day when it suits them they will simply issue a directive to all member states that their individual recognitions were illegal and hence have to be revoked. Easy and non-humiliating for them but not so easy for non-EU countries.
Pressure, pressure, threats, threats and finally force and force to recognise freaking NATO puppet state. Every step taken by far in regard to Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija was illegal and forceful. Can anyone imagine any prosperity of such a creation?? I cannot and therefore firmly believe that every forceful creation will end up and disappear the same way as was created.
"Pressure, pressure, threats, threats and finally force and force to recognise freaking NATO puppet state. Every step taken by far in regard to Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija was illegal and forceful. Can anyone imagine any prosperity of such a creation?? I cannot and therefore firmly believe that every forceful creation will end up and disappear the same way as was created.
(bmrusila, 14 March 2008 12:38) "
I thought you were talking about Jugoslavia there for a moment. Pretty short-lived creation in terms of historical time frame. Take NATO out and replace Kosova/o with Jugoslavia and everything you said remains true.
As to this absurdity of the US forcing other countries to recognize Kosova is just foolishness. Is Slovakia such a strong country that the US couldn't force it. Is Cyprus such a strong country that the US couldn't force it. Both of these countries' world political weight is probably less then the relevance that the boroughs Queens and Brooklyn have in international politics. One then can only wonder about this supposed force being directed from America.
Slovakia and Cyprus are the best examples of this fabrication about countries being forced to recognize independence. If these featherweights are saying no, then nobody can force or make the gorilla's of G8 do anything they do not approve of or don't want to do.
I don't see how Japan can be pressured into anything, they are the second strongest economy in the world, how can anyone possibly threaten them, and over Kosovo of all things?
Every state has the right to decide whether or not they wish to recognize Kosovo and for whatever reason. No one has the right to pressure anybody, the US is not the world police, they are just another state on earth, with equal rights as Kiribati when it comes to recognizing Kosovo or not recognizing it.
The biggest trading partners for the Canadians and the Japanese are the US and the EU.There is not such a thing as morality in politics.Money
and trade are the deciding factors in international relations.It's always been the case and always will be.So read my lips both Canada and Japan will recognise Kosova in the very near futere.
(ahmed, 14 March 2008 12:35)
Am trying to but can't see your face.. faces? :)
Japan may very well do so although if 'diplomats' from 'brussels' get involved.. who knows?
Canada won't.
And isn't a question of money & trade.
"Peter,
Why do you say that Japan is being threatened?
I cant see it anywhere on the thread
(Astro, 14 March 2008 14:47)
Why do you say that I say that Japan is being threatened?
The biggest trading partners for the Canadians and the Japanese are the US and the EU.There is not such a thing as morality in politics.Money
and trade are the deciding factors in international relations.It's always been the case and always will be.So read my lips both Canada and Japan will recognise Kosova in the very near futere.
(ahmed, 14 March 2008 12:35)
It's true that there is a lot of pressure from the U.S. gov't and Canada's has opposition parties that are keen to recognize Kosovo, so there is still a good possibility that Canada will recognize Kosovo. However, it doesn't change the fact that the majority of Canadians that I have spoken to still see Kosovo as Serbia. (and G8 recognition still does not mean anything when resolution 1244 is still in place).
To date only 27 countries have recognized Kosovo out of 192 that is 14% and quite frankly maybe another 5 or 6 will during this year which will be well under 20% of the world's countries in total, this is hardly a victory for Independence.
This 100 country number being mentioned so much is complete and utter nonsense.
Kosovo will not have any membership with any World organization, ever! It will not have foreign investment. It will in fact be a crime infested illegal state poorer than Albania proper with little prospect of guilty life.
bjorn
I dont remember you being recognized by the UN. So you are still a Serbian citizen. CCCC
(Cvele, 14 March 2008 19:21)
it's gjon (john) in albanian and i'm not from kosove but i am albanian and my parents are from southern montenegro and both my countries (USA and ALBANIA)are recognized so i'm not sure what you're carrying on about but good luck to you and your four "C's."
Afghanistan, a country occupied by the US and NATO, is the first to recognize the illegal UDI. No surprise here.
On Jan. 26, 2008 it was reported on B92..."publication of transcripts of a conversation between Slovenian Foreign Ministry official Mitje Drobniča and members of the U.S. administration in Ljubljana daily Dnevnik, where it is alleged that the U.S. has, among other things, asked Slovenia to be the first to recognize Kosovo.
“Publication of internal diplomatic documentation, which happened to [Foreign Minister] Dimitrij Rupel], is a big blow not only to our credibility, but also to the functioning and standing of the Slovenian EU presidency,” said Kacin"
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=01&dd=26&nav_id=47246
Three days later the Policy Director at the Slovenian Foreign Ministry resigned.
Threats, lies and intimidation-divide and conquer-are unfortunately part of US foreign policy.
Given that Canada gave the US the finger vis-à-vis Iraq, and has a history of (mostly) taking its cue from UN concensus, I really can't see them recognising Kosovo's UDI any time soon, thankfully.
#26 Even if Kosovo would be allowed to be in the Olympics, what sports would they participate in? The things they are good at (and "well"-known for) are not considered official sports (it may be to them).
as you said ahmed money, they will recognize but they will pay pay very high price for they choise are they ready to do it??look the financial crisis around, you like it ?? yes?? like Lavrof said europe is here america is there , americans they will not loose for everything european countries will feel the wave of disaster
Both USA and Japan already reconcilated about the WWII. That's what normal civilized people do. You forgive and forgot things done in the past, when the situation pushed you to extremes.
"#26 Even if Kosovo would be allowed to be in the Olympics, what sports would they participate in? The things they are good at (and "well"-known for) are not considered official sports (it may be to them).
(Jan (Amsterdam)"
i wonder if b92 could possibly explain this nice little comment to me, considering how very picky you are about which
comments you include, and which you don't. silly me, but with all of my degrees and experience, i just don't quite "get" the meaning behind the comment. is "Jan from amsterdam" referring to, say, soccer?? or basketball? softball, perhaps?? or is it something just a teeny bit more nefarious, and, say, oh -- another ETHNIC SLUR!? are we trafficking, by any chance, in ETHNIC SLURS?? or is it just me -- really, i need some bright young journalist at b92 to answer this for me, because with all of my american naivete and ignorance, i just don't know.
and here, b92, i've always trusted your high integrity and standards so very much...
Canada will recognize Kosova/o sooner or later no doubt about that. Dion the head of Liberals the second biggest party in Canada requested to do so. The ruling party Conservatives are not in a hurry. Canada is never in a hurry, its for what we are known best. In the end it will do whatever the majority of Western States do. Kosova/o case is not a make or brake deal for Quebec, there is just no comparisons between the two. If Serbia treated Kosova/o from the beginning like Canada treated and treats Quebec it would be a total different story.
As for Japan I just copied and pasted this from Wikipedia:
Japan will carefully examine whether Kosovo meets all the requirements for a state, but is poised to recognize it in general, Chief Cabinet Secretary Nobutaka Machimura told a press conference. He said the Japanese government is "moving toward recognizing" Kosovo since the progress seen was in line with Japan's criteria for recognizing states. "We do not intend to prolong the situation unnecessarily, nor do we intend to rush through this process.", said Minister for Foreign Affairs Masahiko Koumura on 19 February 2008. During talks with the President of Croatia on March 5th, Prime Minister Yasuo Fukuda mentioned the review is still taking place, but recognition is likely.
I think for Kosova/o the most important states left would be Macedonia, Montenegro and Croatia.
I say just wait and see, who is in a hurry anyway?
johny!johny!johny!
You should read all lines from your History Text because your statement in response to bmrusila is infactual "I cannot and therefore firmly believe that every forceful creation will end up and disappear the same way as was created.
(bmrusila, 14 March 2008 12:38) "
I thought you were talking about Jugoslavia there for a moment. Pretty short-lived creation in terms of historical time frame. Take NATO out and replace Kosova/o with Jugoslavia and everything you said remains true."
Serbia had won both World War I & II and was forced to live with all Croation, Albanian and Slovenians. The Serbs were forced to live and integrate with their enemies, all the while Serbia's internal borders were being shifted. Your attempts in stating that the USA are not forcing countries to recognize Kosovo's UDI are futile. Firstly, it was the USA that ripped Kosovo from Serbia with force. Secondly, what would you call it when one nation pressures another nation to recognize an illegal entity?
- Coercion
- Negotiating
- Strong Arming
- Influencing
or as you may seem to think
MUTUALLY AGREEING
It is very evident that Economic Force is being driven at the remaining countries that have yet to recognize KOSOVO.
Why does not the USA put pressure on China, India and Russia and then put that in the NEWS?
"It is very evident that Economic Force is being driven at the remaining countries that have yet to recognize KOSOVO.
Why does not the USA put pressure on China, India and Russia and then put that in the NEWS?
(Another Canadian Serb, 15 March 2008 13:45) "
Well let me answer by following your logic since you talk about Economic Force. US does not force India, Russia, or China because they are rich countries and they cannot crumble to the US pressure. However if that was the case I cannot be more amazed how Cyprus and Slovakia are able to sustain all this Economic Force being directed at them from the EU powers and the US, given that to their standards and the standards of Japan both Slovakia and Cyprus are dirt-poor. Then obviously a reasonable person can see that there is something wrong with this theory of Economic Force against all of those who do not recognize Kosova/o.
"Serbia had won both World War I & II and was forced to live with all Croation, Albanian and Slovenians. The Serbs were forced to live and integrate with their enemies, all the while Serbia's internal borders were being shifted."
For a moment I read this and I thought about how your answer goes against what I said. Read it again just to make sure I get your point. Well from what you said above you agree with me that Jugoslavia was a forceful creation; just like you say because the Serbs were forced to live and integrate with their enemies. Well as an Albanian I can tell you that we were also forced in being part of Jugoslavia. Not in a million years would we as Albanians willingly chose to live in the same country and under the same roof as Serbia. Now since we both agree with that then you should have no problem with my comment about bmruslia's post. As you stated, Jugoslavia was a forceful creation hence that is why it did not last.
How long will Kosova/o last as we see it today? Well we will wait and see. If it is indeed forceful then we will see it partition just like Jugoslavia did. However you will not be able to see the Albanian inhabited parts of Kosova/o within Serbia, because just like you and our poster bmrusila state, that would be a forceful creation and it would not last and would end up just like Jugoslavia.
You, the Serbs, have played your cards really bad this time. If you had played them right you would have had all the Serbian inhabited parts of Kosova/o within Serbia today. There would be no need for protests against UNMIK or anything like that. You played an all or nothing game and since the situation fits I would say Serbia played a Russian roulette game, literally , and so far you got nothing. The fate of the Serbs in Kosova/o is worse than that of N. Cyprus. So enthusiastically your politicians trumpeted how Kosova/o would end up being like N.Cyprus or Hong Kong at best. Well imagine how it is to be like a Hong Kong inside Hong Kong or a N. Cyprus inside N.Cyprus where nobody in the international community even recognizes the fact you exist as a separate entity within a separate entity that is recognized by some. That is what your irresponsible politicians did to their own brothers in Kosova/o, and that is simply because they believe in myths rather then stop for a moment and see what the reality in the ground is.
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