Reuters: EU risks setbacks in Balkans

ahmed,

Only 25% of the Macedonian population are ethnic Albanian. Your attempt to casually inflate this figure suggests to me what is seen as the next front in the Greater Albania project.

Well well well, something that the dusty european bureaucrats didn't think about..., this year will be very hot!
http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2008/03/14/015.html




http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2008/03/14/015.html

You can't push on a rope," one senior EU policymaker was quoted, warning that "another attempt to micromanage Serbian politics could backfire on Brussels


Yes it can backfire and we are dangerously close to that.
And tell America to shut up for awhile. Their comments on who is on th epath to the EU and all that is interferring.

The EU have messed up. They have incompetently put democratic Serbia at risk by insisting in unnecessarily supporting the mono-ethnic ambitions of the Albanians in Kosovo.

The EU should learn that it does not actually look as intelligent or powerful as its self image suggests.

The EU is trying to insert itself like it is a fairy godmother that knows better, whereas actually it is more like tweedle-dum and tweedle-dee.

"You can't push on a rope," one senior EU policymaker was quoted, warning that "another attempt to micromanage Serbian politics could backfire on Brussels".

THANK YOU!! now shout that into a megaphone into the ears of all EU leaders please. They still dont seem to get it.

ahmed,

Make that 509,083 Albanians
(25.17%)
As of 2002 census.

My maths are very good, thank you.

Very interesting report..
So people in EU have finally something to be happy in the Balkans.. if everything goes in the right direction we will have no new countries in Eu for many many years !!
Fantastico !
let's hope also that our new governament in Italy will retire our troops from all the region , it'is already been suggested in an article in the press ...

A lot of people were predicting troubles with the recognition of Kosova.On the
contrary everything went very
smoothly with both sides behaving in a civilised way.
All threats about embargoes and civil disobedience were grossly exagerated.Instead,
people are looking into the future knowing that there are
better times ahead.Personally
i can see both Kosova and Serbia as EU members and doing business together.With,
regard to Macedonia they will have to abide by the EU
human rights act and the Ohrid agreement.40% of the population are Albanians and
they must be treated as partners in goverment and not
as a minority.I am certain that the Slav dominated Macedonian goverment will see
some sense and put in place all the legislation required
to better the lives of all the people living in the country.

All of the concerns are correct. I share the same concerns.

However, any other scenario in contrary to those could have been worse.
Fortunately, we have the situation, we know the difficulties all we need to do is find the solution and people in Balkans don’t start killing one another again.

I have so much to add in this topic but I am afraid that the topic is very wide.

ahmed,

Make that 509,083 Albanians
(25.17%)
As of 2002 census.

My maths are very good, thank you.
(Tom O'Donoghue, 14 March 2008 21:59)
If you ask the Bulgarian Gov
they will tell you that their
ethnic minority exceeds the
200000 mark.Do you see the
Bulgarian minority mentioned
anywhere?The percentages on
numbers on minorities is wrong.We know how many we are.

What if US/EU sponsored an indepedent census of all Macedonia's inhabitants so that Albanians' true percentage of the population can finally be internationaly recognized and Macedonia's Parliment allotts the correct percentage of seats.Equal representation will only help peace and harmony in Macedonia's claim to be a democratic country.Albanians' struggle with equality must be supported by all democracies.

Tom O'Donoghue; we Albanians have an issue with insitutionalized discrimination.Even if we had 25% of government positions ;etc ,we would be gratefull.If we get representation in proportion to our numbers, Macedonia will indeed have a stable future.Democracy is worth fighting for.Don't you agree?And enough with the Greater Albania project when in reality it's the Serbs refusal to give up Karadzic and Mladic and their support for the Radical party shows who is who and what is what.

Jan Andersen, do you realize that blaming the victims isn't the solution to stabilty? Now that Macedonia is hoping for NATO and EU membership without entirely fulfilling ceasefire peace agreement of 2001 will only weaken their candidacy.We ask for equality,why should any fair minded person be against that? In marriage, when a partner doesn't respect the other and refuses to treat as an equal,guess what happens to that relationship? Ever since independence of 1991, how long must we wait? Are you assuming Macedonia has a guarenteed eternal free pass to step on our rights.

ahmed,

Only 25% of the Macedonian population are ethnic Albanian. Your attempt to casually inflate this figure suggests to me what is seen as the next front in the Greater Albania project.
(Tom O'Donoghue, 14 March 2008 17:19)
Population census 2002
2022.547
769231 Albanian.You should practice your maths especially on percentages

On 15 March 2008 05:47, azir wrote:

> What if US/EU sponsored an indepedent census of all Macedonia's inhabitants so that Albanians' true percentage of the population can finally be internationaly recognized and Macedonia's Parliment allotts the correct percentage of seats.

Why?? The only reason to have pre-allotted seats is if

1) The elections are being rigged. If 25 % of the population wants a specific set of of people in the parliament, all they have to do is to vote for them. Unless of course, the election results are being tweaked.

2) The people are too lazy to get out and vote. But then they don't deserve democracy either.

Voting for a candidate because he/she belongs to some specific ethnic group, or because he/she is part of a specific faith, is in my opinion simply wrong. I see it in failed democracies in Africa, with people voting along tribe-lines instead of according to economical-political views. I don't want to see it in Macedonia, or anywhere else in the Balkans.

Jan Andersen, you still just don't get it.What part of discrimination do you not understand? And please don't call anyone lazy.We don't need you are anyone else to insult us Albanians in "Macedonia".Do you honestly believe Albanian interest are best served by anyone other than Albanian representatives?If that's the case why have a "Republica Serbska" in Bosnia when the Serbs of Bosnia can depend on the Bosnian Moslem and Croat federation to best represent their interest in Bosnia Government? Now do you finally see the light?

Jan Andersen,once again,discrimination-discrimination and more discrimination.and after that more discrimination. Is that getting through to you??Simple enough.You hear, but you really don't want to.

From the CIA World Fact book (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/mk.html#People)

Ethnic groups (2002 census):

Macedonian 64.2%
Albanian 25.2%
Turkish 3.9%
Roma (Gypsy) 2.7%
Serb 1.8%
other 2.2%

On 15 March 2008, 15:46, azir wrote:

> Jan Andersen, you still just don't get it.

Apparently I don't.

> What part of discrimination do you not understand?

I understand discrimination perfectly I hope. It is when you are being treated different due to circumstance outside your control. Such as hair colour, skin colour, sex, big ears, etc, etc.

> And please don't call anyone lazy.

If 25 % percent of the population can not get 25 % representation in the parliament without having the seat pre-allotted, then there can only be 2 explanations: Vote rigging, or non-voting (which can be due to either laziness or intimidation). Or do you have another explanation if 1/4 of the population can not get their fair share of candidates elected?

> Do you honestly believe Albanian interest are best served by anyone other than Albanian representatives?

Sometimes. I hope I would prefer to governed by an intelligent Swede than a stupid Dane.

> If that's the case why have a "Republica Serbska" in Bosnia when the Serbs of Bosnia can depend on the Bosnian Moslem and Croat federation to best represent their interest in Bosnia Government?

Because local government is better than central government? That said, I don't think being a Serb is a qualification in itself. Neither is being Albanian, Macedonian, or from Mars.

azir, I asked you a simple question: What is preventing 25 % of the population from getting 25 % representation in the parliament?

You keep refusing to answer me.

Just to drop a note on explaining discrimination in Macedonia - the vote in the Balkans is never guaranteed. Especially when voting for the parliament seats the votes can count very differently depending on size of region, number of candidates, the election process, percentages, etc.It is pretty common that you have a village give more deputies than a town or city. Anyway Macedonia is far from being a hot topic. As long as the country will reject nationalist parties and mentality (there is a huge gap between Macedonia and Serbia for example) and having economic prosperity there will be no risks. Of course there will always be place to improve the condition of Albanian, Bulgarian and other minorities but that will need some time. The hot topics are Kosovo and Bosnia here. And people there need a strong message from the respective elites that things should be solved peacefully in any case and that people are destined to live together and share a better future.

A lot of people were predicting troubles with the recognition of Kosova.On the
contrary everything went very
smoothly with both sides behaving in a civilised way.
All threats about embargoes and civil disobedience were grossly exagerated.Instead,
people are looking into the future knowing that there are
better times ahead.Personally
i can see both Kosova and Serbia as EU members and doing business together.With,
regard to Macedonia they will have to abide by the EU
human rights act and the Ohrid agreement.40% of the population are Albanians and
they must be treated as partners in goverment and not
as a minority.I am certain that the Slav dominated Macedonian goverment will see
some sense and put in place all the legislation required
to better the lives of all the people living in the country.

All of the concerns are correct. I share the same concerns.

However, any other scenario in contrary to those could have been worse.
Fortunately, we have the situation, we know the difficulties all we need to do is find the solution and people in Balkans don’t start killing one another again.

I have so much to add in this topic but I am afraid that the topic is very wide.

Very interesting report..
So people in EU have finally something to be happy in the Balkans.. if everything goes in the right direction we will have no new countries in Eu for many many years !!
Fantastico !
let's hope also that our new governament in Italy will retire our troops from all the region , it'is already been suggested in an article in the press ...

You can't push on a rope," one senior EU policymaker was quoted, warning that "another attempt to micromanage Serbian politics could backfire on Brussels


Yes it can backfire and we are dangerously close to that.
And tell America to shut up for awhile. Their comments on who is on th epath to the EU and all that is interferring.

ahmed,

Only 25% of the Macedonian population are ethnic Albanian. Your attempt to casually inflate this figure suggests to me what is seen as the next front in the Greater Albania project.

ahmed,

Only 25% of the Macedonian population are ethnic Albanian. Your attempt to casually inflate this figure suggests to me what is seen as the next front in the Greater Albania project.
(Tom O'Donoghue, 14 March 2008 17:19)
Population census 2002
2022.547
769231 Albanian.You should practice your maths especially on percentages

ahmed,

Make that 509,083 Albanians
(25.17%)
As of 2002 census.

My maths are very good, thank you.

ahmed,

Make that 509,083 Albanians
(25.17%)
As of 2002 census.

My maths are very good, thank you.
(Tom O'Donoghue, 14 March 2008 21:59)
If you ask the Bulgarian Gov
they will tell you that their
ethnic minority exceeds the
200000 mark.Do you see the
Bulgarian minority mentioned
anywhere?The percentages on
numbers on minorities is wrong.We know how many we are.

What if US/EU sponsored an indepedent census of all Macedonia's inhabitants so that Albanians' true percentage of the population can finally be internationaly recognized and Macedonia's Parliment allotts the correct percentage of seats.Equal representation will only help peace and harmony in Macedonia's claim to be a democratic country.Albanians' struggle with equality must be supported by all democracies.

Tom O'Donoghue; we Albanians have an issue with insitutionalized discrimination.Even if we had 25% of government positions ;etc ,we would be gratefull.If we get representation in proportion to our numbers, Macedonia will indeed have a stable future.Democracy is worth fighting for.Don't you agree?And enough with the Greater Albania project when in reality it's the Serbs refusal to give up Karadzic and Mladic and their support for the Radical party shows who is who and what is what.

Well well well, something that the dusty european bureaucrats didn't think about..., this year will be very hot!
http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2008/03/14/015.html




http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2008/03/14/015.html

The EU have messed up. They have incompetently put democratic Serbia at risk by insisting in unnecessarily supporting the mono-ethnic ambitions of the Albanians in Kosovo.

The EU should learn that it does not actually look as intelligent or powerful as its self image suggests.

The EU is trying to insert itself like it is a fairy godmother that knows better, whereas actually it is more like tweedle-dum and tweedle-dee.

"You can't push on a rope," one senior EU policymaker was quoted, warning that "another attempt to micromanage Serbian politics could backfire on Brussels".

THANK YOU!! now shout that into a megaphone into the ears of all EU leaders please. They still dont seem to get it.

From the CIA World Fact book (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/mk.html#People)

Ethnic groups (2002 census):

Macedonian 64.2%
Albanian 25.2%
Turkish 3.9%
Roma (Gypsy) 2.7%
Serb 1.8%
other 2.2%

On 15 March 2008 05:47, azir wrote:

> What if US/EU sponsored an indepedent census of all Macedonia's inhabitants so that Albanians' true percentage of the population can finally be internationaly recognized and Macedonia's Parliment allotts the correct percentage of seats.

Why?? The only reason to have pre-allotted seats is if

1) The elections are being rigged. If 25 % of the population wants a specific set of of people in the parliament, all they have to do is to vote for them. Unless of course, the election results are being tweaked.

2) The people are too lazy to get out and vote. But then they don't deserve democracy either.

Voting for a candidate because he/she belongs to some specific ethnic group, or because he/she is part of a specific faith, is in my opinion simply wrong. I see it in failed democracies in Africa, with people voting along tribe-lines instead of according to economical-political views. I don't want to see it in Macedonia, or anywhere else in the Balkans.

Jan Andersen, you still just don't get it.What part of discrimination do you not understand? And please don't call anyone lazy.We don't need you are anyone else to insult us Albanians in "Macedonia".Do you honestly believe Albanian interest are best served by anyone other than Albanian representatives?If that's the case why have a "Republica Serbska" in Bosnia when the Serbs of Bosnia can depend on the Bosnian Moslem and Croat federation to best represent their interest in Bosnia Government? Now do you finally see the light?

On 15 March 2008, 15:46, azir wrote:

> Jan Andersen, you still just don't get it.

Apparently I don't.

> What part of discrimination do you not understand?

I understand discrimination perfectly I hope. It is when you are being treated different due to circumstance outside your control. Such as hair colour, skin colour, sex, big ears, etc, etc.

> And please don't call anyone lazy.

If 25 % percent of the population can not get 25 % representation in the parliament without having the seat pre-allotted, then there can only be 2 explanations: Vote rigging, or non-voting (which can be due to either laziness or intimidation). Or do you have another explanation if 1/4 of the population can not get their fair share of candidates elected?

> Do you honestly believe Albanian interest are best served by anyone other than Albanian representatives?

Sometimes. I hope I would prefer to governed by an intelligent Swede than a stupid Dane.

> If that's the case why have a "Republica Serbska" in Bosnia when the Serbs of Bosnia can depend on the Bosnian Moslem and Croat federation to best represent their interest in Bosnia Government?

Because local government is better than central government? That said, I don't think being a Serb is a qualification in itself. Neither is being Albanian, Macedonian, or from Mars.

Jan Andersen, do you realize that blaming the victims isn't the solution to stabilty? Now that Macedonia is hoping for NATO and EU membership without entirely fulfilling ceasefire peace agreement of 2001 will only weaken their candidacy.We ask for equality,why should any fair minded person be against that? In marriage, when a partner doesn't respect the other and refuses to treat as an equal,guess what happens to that relationship? Ever since independence of 1991, how long must we wait? Are you assuming Macedonia has a guarenteed eternal free pass to step on our rights.

azir, I asked you a simple question: What is preventing 25 % of the population from getting 25 % representation in the parliament?

You keep refusing to answer me.

Jan Andersen,once again,discrimination-discrimination and more discrimination.and after that more discrimination. Is that getting through to you??Simple enough.You hear, but you really don't want to.

Just to drop a note on explaining discrimination in Macedonia - the vote in the Balkans is never guaranteed. Especially when voting for the parliament seats the votes can count very differently depending on size of region, number of candidates, the election process, percentages, etc.It is pretty common that you have a village give more deputies than a town or city. Anyway Macedonia is far from being a hot topic. As long as the country will reject nationalist parties and mentality (there is a huge gap between Macedonia and Serbia for example) and having economic prosperity there will be no risks. Of course there will always be place to improve the condition of Albanian, Bulgarian and other minorities but that will need some time. The hot topics are Kosovo and Bosnia here. And people there need a strong message from the respective elites that things should be solved peacefully in any case and that people are destined to live together and share a better future.