9

Wednesday, 12.03.2008.

22:54

Munter: Focusing on Kosovo is cynical

U.S. Ambassador Cameron Munter says a period of instability is ahead for Serbia.

Izvor: B92

Munter: Focusing on Kosovo is cynical IMAGE SOURCE
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9 Komentari

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Savo Heleta

pre 16 godina

George Bush said that the US supported Kosovo’s independence because his administration “believes it will bring peace.” He may be the president of the most powerful country in the world, but he does not seem to know much about conflict management and peace building.

Long-lasting peace is possible only when parties in a conflict come up with an agreement that accommodates them all. Everything else is a short-term masquerade and a further protraction of conflict and violence.

http://savoheleta.livejournal.com

Jovan

pre 16 godina

""We will make it work. I just hope that we don’t have to do so, yet again, at the expense of the Serbian people, because of bad leadership," Munter warned."

wow, he´s sending out warnings! :)

well then, go ahead, make it work! I am very eager to see the american public reacting on bad news...

Mr.Munter doesn´t admit, that they simply do not have the capacities to "make it work" at the expense of the serbian poeple. if they should really try to use force, they would only regret it. That, Mr.Munter, would be a "terrible mistake"!

once again B92 is unveiling it´s nature as a PR-tool of the US. good.

Eurosceptic

pre 16 godina

Cam, do you realise your Serbian audience’s level of sophistication extends beyond shiny bead and firewater? But they sure can spot a forked tongue.

What exactly are you offering Serbia?

Restoration of Serbia’s territorial integrity?
Cheap, reliable energy supplies?
A key role as energy distribution partner?

All you did was make an overt threat to harm the Serbian people and say that Americans wanted to make money from Serbia. That’s your best try at the carrot and stick approach?

The geo-political landscape is evolving and you are in no position to make threats and Serbia has better economic options than to submit to your sad vision.

Bob

pre 16 godina

I think it is time for Serbia to check out the legalities on reoccupation of Kosovo - it has fulfilled its duties over 1244 and what is going on there now in contravention of 1244 so it must be possible to make a good legal case. Serbia will need to be able to reoccupy at some stage if it is ever to re-establish its territorial integrity. Now that law is on Serbia's side, this should at least be thought about. The international press will not criticise a country that defends its territory by legal means - even if it is against the will of the great US.

The irresponsibility mentioned in the article rests with the US who have stupidly and recklessly put the poitics of democratic Serbia at risk by their inept action.

They will bluster about burnt embassies - but it is bluster. Putting the blame on Serbian politicians who legally defend their territory is also bluster - and may well prove counter productive.

When you hear a man like this ambassador talking, he is trying to cover the fact that actually the emperor is without his clothing.

He would do better to just concentrate on stamping visas.

Pijetro

pre 16 godina

"If there had been a solution found to which Serbs would have agreed, "

Come on Mr. Munter. We fully know that there was nothing to negotiate, so stop insulting everybody's intelligence..
In one breath you talk about compromise, on the other breath, you tell of a predetermined outcome, regardless of policy..

Please keep your brow beating and isolationist scare tactics in the halls of the State Department.

Considering 10 years of sanctions, bombing of infrastructure, and diplomatic bullying, Serbia's politicians (although far from being exemplary), have fared pretty well.

But somehow you don't realize or grasp, that any form of Western leaning government can never accept a partition of Serbia.

Rather than taking Mr. Munter's words literally, I'll trust the investors are a MUCH BETTER gauge for stability in Serbia, and NOT your State Department policy.

Tom O'Donoghue

pre 16 godina

"We will make it work. I just hope that we don’t have to do so, yet again, at the expense of the Serbian people, because of bad leadership," Munter warned.

That is quite simply an explicit threat. The moderator of this site would not allow what I would like to say about and to this guy Munter.

Stevan

pre 16 godina

Another one in the (long) line of arrogant American “diplomats” overstepping all international norms of diplomatic behavior, insulting our politicians, interfering with our internal affairs and trying to influence our elections. I heard South American joke: Why there isn’t a military putsch in US? Because there are no American embassies there.

It is a high time that Serbia sends American ambassador home.

Jim-UK

pre 16 godina

This would be more suitable as a script for 'The Simpsons' I think.

A word of advice or a warning? It would be funny if the subject matter weren't so serious. Be good, forget about Kosovo and Metohije, vote accordingly (so you don't get anymore irresponsible leaders of course)and the American investors will stay, you will join the EU, and thrive financially.

Has Munter missed something or have I?

Oh and of course, displays of violence if you are angry or incited are wrong, even if it does regard the most treasured part of your country.

Seems those sort of acts are only acceptable if you are doing it for say, financial reasons, and all deaths happen purely as a consequence and coincidentally, thereby termed collatoral damage.

To think I live in a country that's a part of this hypocrisy.

Zoran

pre 16 godina

"In his assessment, it will last "as long as there is a combination of irresponsible leadership and legitimate concerns of the Serbian public over Kosovo"."

As a guest to Serbia this arrogant man should mind his own business (and that has nothing to do with free speech or a lack of it). Serbs and Serbia do not care what this man says. Maybe he should make some comments about the irresponsible leadership in the US and how some wild west adventures oversea and dubious business practices at home have finally effected the "empire" in its core: the economical heart.

"Munter, in an interview with Belgrade's CorD magazine, said he "did not know how long that will take", but that he "would like to think that people who represent the majority in Serbia will succeed to set priorities in a way that will enable them to take the path they want, and to address genuine problems of unemployment, corruption, European integrations"."

The embargo during the 90's had most effect on regular people as was to be expected. Compared to the NATO/EU colony of Kosovo the situation in Serbia is quite good, but for some reason he does not mention that (unless he is talking about Kosovo and considering it a part of Serbia (as it is)).

"As for the unilateral declaration of Kosovo's independence, the ambassador said the authorities in Belgrade "made a terrible mistake by not being realistic about what was going to happen"."

Yes, some politicians were extremely naive and believed the EU way too much. But that mistake will not be made again and the elections in May will prove that.

""I believe that it’s been for rather cynical domestic gain that irresponsible leaders have chosen to make Kosovo the only issue at a time, as shown by the results of the presidential election, that most people in Serbia want peace and a European future," the U.S. diplomat said."

Only 51% or so choose Tadic. Everybody wants peace, stability and a bright future, but most people and countries would be quite upset if some other try to amputate a part of your country and reward terrorist for terror.

"According to him, "this does not mean there is no genuine anger in the country because of Kosovo", but this should not lead to "justification or even incitement of violence"."

Are you referring to the attack on the US embassy. I thought he would use more stronger words than this.

"This is a terrifying way to stifle and destroy the country's ambition to realize its European future, Munter added, in reference to Feb. 21 demonstrations in Belgrade that saw attacks on U.S. and other western embassies."

Yeah yeah.

""If there had been a solution found to which Serbs would have agreed, that would have been preferable, but unfortunately the two sides were not able to come up with anything that was acceptable, and so now we’re stuck with a situation that we will have to make work," he said."

It is very clear that the Albanians did not show any motivation to talk because their US and EU masters told them so. The current situation is not going to work because less than 15% of the world's countries is in favor of the illegal UDI.

""We will make it work. I just hope that we don’t have to do so, yet again, at the expense of the Serbian people, because of bad leadership," Munter warned."

This guy better stops theatening Serbia and Serbs. NATO and the EU will make an historical mistake by forcing Kosovo Serbs to live under KLA rule. It shows great incompetence that this so-called diplomat tries to put all the blame on the Serbian government. How about 20 years of anti-Serbia US policy?

"As for the American business community in Serbia, the diplomat said "they’re very realistic"."

If you do not like it in Serbia, leave and never come back. We can buy products from many other places.

""They’re sobered and careful, but I don’t see them cutting and running. Those American businesses that have come here have assembled a terrific local workforce, and have seen great opportunities, and they know that it is worthwhile investing in Serbia," he said."

It is up to the American businesses to stay or go.

""Investors that have come here have not done so charitably or as a favour to anyone, but rather because they feel that Serbia is a good place to turn a profit. That said, we will have to watch developments in the next days and weeks, in order to make sure that people are safe, because nobody can live in an atmosphere where they feel that the host government, for whatever reason, is unwilling to afford them the protection they need," he U.S. ambassador added."

I do not know if it is possible to expel a diplomat, but this guy really qualifies. I am surprised that the Serbian press keeps being interested in him. The Serbian government should ignore this person.

"Munter also said he was "impressed with Serbia's economic potential and with the knowledge of some ministers, especially those from the economic domain"."

And that is why they are so eager to have Serbia in the EU. But we aware that once you are in the EU things will change quickly and the upper hand is lost quite quickly.

Zoran

pre 16 godina

"In his assessment, it will last "as long as there is a combination of irresponsible leadership and legitimate concerns of the Serbian public over Kosovo"."

As a guest to Serbia this arrogant man should mind his own business (and that has nothing to do with free speech or a lack of it). Serbs and Serbia do not care what this man says. Maybe he should make some comments about the irresponsible leadership in the US and how some wild west adventures oversea and dubious business practices at home have finally effected the "empire" in its core: the economical heart.

"Munter, in an interview with Belgrade's CorD magazine, said he "did not know how long that will take", but that he "would like to think that people who represent the majority in Serbia will succeed to set priorities in a way that will enable them to take the path they want, and to address genuine problems of unemployment, corruption, European integrations"."

The embargo during the 90's had most effect on regular people as was to be expected. Compared to the NATO/EU colony of Kosovo the situation in Serbia is quite good, but for some reason he does not mention that (unless he is talking about Kosovo and considering it a part of Serbia (as it is)).

"As for the unilateral declaration of Kosovo's independence, the ambassador said the authorities in Belgrade "made a terrible mistake by not being realistic about what was going to happen"."

Yes, some politicians were extremely naive and believed the EU way too much. But that mistake will not be made again and the elections in May will prove that.

""I believe that it’s been for rather cynical domestic gain that irresponsible leaders have chosen to make Kosovo the only issue at a time, as shown by the results of the presidential election, that most people in Serbia want peace and a European future," the U.S. diplomat said."

Only 51% or so choose Tadic. Everybody wants peace, stability and a bright future, but most people and countries would be quite upset if some other try to amputate a part of your country and reward terrorist for terror.

"According to him, "this does not mean there is no genuine anger in the country because of Kosovo", but this should not lead to "justification or even incitement of violence"."

Are you referring to the attack on the US embassy. I thought he would use more stronger words than this.

"This is a terrifying way to stifle and destroy the country's ambition to realize its European future, Munter added, in reference to Feb. 21 demonstrations in Belgrade that saw attacks on U.S. and other western embassies."

Yeah yeah.

""If there had been a solution found to which Serbs would have agreed, that would have been preferable, but unfortunately the two sides were not able to come up with anything that was acceptable, and so now we’re stuck with a situation that we will have to make work," he said."

It is very clear that the Albanians did not show any motivation to talk because their US and EU masters told them so. The current situation is not going to work because less than 15% of the world's countries is in favor of the illegal UDI.

""We will make it work. I just hope that we don’t have to do so, yet again, at the expense of the Serbian people, because of bad leadership," Munter warned."

This guy better stops theatening Serbia and Serbs. NATO and the EU will make an historical mistake by forcing Kosovo Serbs to live under KLA rule. It shows great incompetence that this so-called diplomat tries to put all the blame on the Serbian government. How about 20 years of anti-Serbia US policy?

"As for the American business community in Serbia, the diplomat said "they’re very realistic"."

If you do not like it in Serbia, leave and never come back. We can buy products from many other places.

""They’re sobered and careful, but I don’t see them cutting and running. Those American businesses that have come here have assembled a terrific local workforce, and have seen great opportunities, and they know that it is worthwhile investing in Serbia," he said."

It is up to the American businesses to stay or go.

""Investors that have come here have not done so charitably or as a favour to anyone, but rather because they feel that Serbia is a good place to turn a profit. That said, we will have to watch developments in the next days and weeks, in order to make sure that people are safe, because nobody can live in an atmosphere where they feel that the host government, for whatever reason, is unwilling to afford them the protection they need," he U.S. ambassador added."

I do not know if it is possible to expel a diplomat, but this guy really qualifies. I am surprised that the Serbian press keeps being interested in him. The Serbian government should ignore this person.

"Munter also said he was "impressed with Serbia's economic potential and with the knowledge of some ministers, especially those from the economic domain"."

And that is why they are so eager to have Serbia in the EU. But we aware that once you are in the EU things will change quickly and the upper hand is lost quite quickly.

Tom O'Donoghue

pre 16 godina

"We will make it work. I just hope that we don’t have to do so, yet again, at the expense of the Serbian people, because of bad leadership," Munter warned.

That is quite simply an explicit threat. The moderator of this site would not allow what I would like to say about and to this guy Munter.

Stevan

pre 16 godina

Another one in the (long) line of arrogant American “diplomats” overstepping all international norms of diplomatic behavior, insulting our politicians, interfering with our internal affairs and trying to influence our elections. I heard South American joke: Why there isn’t a military putsch in US? Because there are no American embassies there.

It is a high time that Serbia sends American ambassador home.

Pijetro

pre 16 godina

"If there had been a solution found to which Serbs would have agreed, "

Come on Mr. Munter. We fully know that there was nothing to negotiate, so stop insulting everybody's intelligence..
In one breath you talk about compromise, on the other breath, you tell of a predetermined outcome, regardless of policy..

Please keep your brow beating and isolationist scare tactics in the halls of the State Department.

Considering 10 years of sanctions, bombing of infrastructure, and diplomatic bullying, Serbia's politicians (although far from being exemplary), have fared pretty well.

But somehow you don't realize or grasp, that any form of Western leaning government can never accept a partition of Serbia.

Rather than taking Mr. Munter's words literally, I'll trust the investors are a MUCH BETTER gauge for stability in Serbia, and NOT your State Department policy.

Jim-UK

pre 16 godina

This would be more suitable as a script for 'The Simpsons' I think.

A word of advice or a warning? It would be funny if the subject matter weren't so serious. Be good, forget about Kosovo and Metohije, vote accordingly (so you don't get anymore irresponsible leaders of course)and the American investors will stay, you will join the EU, and thrive financially.

Has Munter missed something or have I?

Oh and of course, displays of violence if you are angry or incited are wrong, even if it does regard the most treasured part of your country.

Seems those sort of acts are only acceptable if you are doing it for say, financial reasons, and all deaths happen purely as a consequence and coincidentally, thereby termed collatoral damage.

To think I live in a country that's a part of this hypocrisy.

Bob

pre 16 godina

I think it is time for Serbia to check out the legalities on reoccupation of Kosovo - it has fulfilled its duties over 1244 and what is going on there now in contravention of 1244 so it must be possible to make a good legal case. Serbia will need to be able to reoccupy at some stage if it is ever to re-establish its territorial integrity. Now that law is on Serbia's side, this should at least be thought about. The international press will not criticise a country that defends its territory by legal means - even if it is against the will of the great US.

The irresponsibility mentioned in the article rests with the US who have stupidly and recklessly put the poitics of democratic Serbia at risk by their inept action.

They will bluster about burnt embassies - but it is bluster. Putting the blame on Serbian politicians who legally defend their territory is also bluster - and may well prove counter productive.

When you hear a man like this ambassador talking, he is trying to cover the fact that actually the emperor is without his clothing.

He would do better to just concentrate on stamping visas.

Eurosceptic

pre 16 godina

Cam, do you realise your Serbian audience’s level of sophistication extends beyond shiny bead and firewater? But they sure can spot a forked tongue.

What exactly are you offering Serbia?

Restoration of Serbia’s territorial integrity?
Cheap, reliable energy supplies?
A key role as energy distribution partner?

All you did was make an overt threat to harm the Serbian people and say that Americans wanted to make money from Serbia. That’s your best try at the carrot and stick approach?

The geo-political landscape is evolving and you are in no position to make threats and Serbia has better economic options than to submit to your sad vision.

Jovan

pre 16 godina

""We will make it work. I just hope that we don’t have to do so, yet again, at the expense of the Serbian people, because of bad leadership," Munter warned."

wow, he´s sending out warnings! :)

well then, go ahead, make it work! I am very eager to see the american public reacting on bad news...

Mr.Munter doesn´t admit, that they simply do not have the capacities to "make it work" at the expense of the serbian poeple. if they should really try to use force, they would only regret it. That, Mr.Munter, would be a "terrible mistake"!

once again B92 is unveiling it´s nature as a PR-tool of the US. good.

Savo Heleta

pre 16 godina

George Bush said that the US supported Kosovo’s independence because his administration “believes it will bring peace.” He may be the president of the most powerful country in the world, but he does not seem to know much about conflict management and peace building.

Long-lasting peace is possible only when parties in a conflict come up with an agreement that accommodates them all. Everything else is a short-term masquerade and a further protraction of conflict and violence.

http://savoheleta.livejournal.com

Stevan

pre 16 godina

Another one in the (long) line of arrogant American “diplomats” overstepping all international norms of diplomatic behavior, insulting our politicians, interfering with our internal affairs and trying to influence our elections. I heard South American joke: Why there isn’t a military putsch in US? Because there are no American embassies there.

It is a high time that Serbia sends American ambassador home.

Tom O'Donoghue

pre 16 godina

"We will make it work. I just hope that we don’t have to do so, yet again, at the expense of the Serbian people, because of bad leadership," Munter warned.

That is quite simply an explicit threat. The moderator of this site would not allow what I would like to say about and to this guy Munter.

Jim-UK

pre 16 godina

This would be more suitable as a script for 'The Simpsons' I think.

A word of advice or a warning? It would be funny if the subject matter weren't so serious. Be good, forget about Kosovo and Metohije, vote accordingly (so you don't get anymore irresponsible leaders of course)and the American investors will stay, you will join the EU, and thrive financially.

Has Munter missed something or have I?

Oh and of course, displays of violence if you are angry or incited are wrong, even if it does regard the most treasured part of your country.

Seems those sort of acts are only acceptable if you are doing it for say, financial reasons, and all deaths happen purely as a consequence and coincidentally, thereby termed collatoral damage.

To think I live in a country that's a part of this hypocrisy.

Zoran

pre 16 godina

"In his assessment, it will last "as long as there is a combination of irresponsible leadership and legitimate concerns of the Serbian public over Kosovo"."

As a guest to Serbia this arrogant man should mind his own business (and that has nothing to do with free speech or a lack of it). Serbs and Serbia do not care what this man says. Maybe he should make some comments about the irresponsible leadership in the US and how some wild west adventures oversea and dubious business practices at home have finally effected the "empire" in its core: the economical heart.

"Munter, in an interview with Belgrade's CorD magazine, said he "did not know how long that will take", but that he "would like to think that people who represent the majority in Serbia will succeed to set priorities in a way that will enable them to take the path they want, and to address genuine problems of unemployment, corruption, European integrations"."

The embargo during the 90's had most effect on regular people as was to be expected. Compared to the NATO/EU colony of Kosovo the situation in Serbia is quite good, but for some reason he does not mention that (unless he is talking about Kosovo and considering it a part of Serbia (as it is)).

"As for the unilateral declaration of Kosovo's independence, the ambassador said the authorities in Belgrade "made a terrible mistake by not being realistic about what was going to happen"."

Yes, some politicians were extremely naive and believed the EU way too much. But that mistake will not be made again and the elections in May will prove that.

""I believe that it’s been for rather cynical domestic gain that irresponsible leaders have chosen to make Kosovo the only issue at a time, as shown by the results of the presidential election, that most people in Serbia want peace and a European future," the U.S. diplomat said."

Only 51% or so choose Tadic. Everybody wants peace, stability and a bright future, but most people and countries would be quite upset if some other try to amputate a part of your country and reward terrorist for terror.

"According to him, "this does not mean there is no genuine anger in the country because of Kosovo", but this should not lead to "justification or even incitement of violence"."

Are you referring to the attack on the US embassy. I thought he would use more stronger words than this.

"This is a terrifying way to stifle and destroy the country's ambition to realize its European future, Munter added, in reference to Feb. 21 demonstrations in Belgrade that saw attacks on U.S. and other western embassies."

Yeah yeah.

""If there had been a solution found to which Serbs would have agreed, that would have been preferable, but unfortunately the two sides were not able to come up with anything that was acceptable, and so now we’re stuck with a situation that we will have to make work," he said."

It is very clear that the Albanians did not show any motivation to talk because their US and EU masters told them so. The current situation is not going to work because less than 15% of the world's countries is in favor of the illegal UDI.

""We will make it work. I just hope that we don’t have to do so, yet again, at the expense of the Serbian people, because of bad leadership," Munter warned."

This guy better stops theatening Serbia and Serbs. NATO and the EU will make an historical mistake by forcing Kosovo Serbs to live under KLA rule. It shows great incompetence that this so-called diplomat tries to put all the blame on the Serbian government. How about 20 years of anti-Serbia US policy?

"As for the American business community in Serbia, the diplomat said "they’re very realistic"."

If you do not like it in Serbia, leave and never come back. We can buy products from many other places.

""They’re sobered and careful, but I don’t see them cutting and running. Those American businesses that have come here have assembled a terrific local workforce, and have seen great opportunities, and they know that it is worthwhile investing in Serbia," he said."

It is up to the American businesses to stay or go.

""Investors that have come here have not done so charitably or as a favour to anyone, but rather because they feel that Serbia is a good place to turn a profit. That said, we will have to watch developments in the next days and weeks, in order to make sure that people are safe, because nobody can live in an atmosphere where they feel that the host government, for whatever reason, is unwilling to afford them the protection they need," he U.S. ambassador added."

I do not know if it is possible to expel a diplomat, but this guy really qualifies. I am surprised that the Serbian press keeps being interested in him. The Serbian government should ignore this person.

"Munter also said he was "impressed with Serbia's economic potential and with the knowledge of some ministers, especially those from the economic domain"."

And that is why they are so eager to have Serbia in the EU. But we aware that once you are in the EU things will change quickly and the upper hand is lost quite quickly.

Pijetro

pre 16 godina

"If there had been a solution found to which Serbs would have agreed, "

Come on Mr. Munter. We fully know that there was nothing to negotiate, so stop insulting everybody's intelligence..
In one breath you talk about compromise, on the other breath, you tell of a predetermined outcome, regardless of policy..

Please keep your brow beating and isolationist scare tactics in the halls of the State Department.

Considering 10 years of sanctions, bombing of infrastructure, and diplomatic bullying, Serbia's politicians (although far from being exemplary), have fared pretty well.

But somehow you don't realize or grasp, that any form of Western leaning government can never accept a partition of Serbia.

Rather than taking Mr. Munter's words literally, I'll trust the investors are a MUCH BETTER gauge for stability in Serbia, and NOT your State Department policy.

Bob

pre 16 godina

I think it is time for Serbia to check out the legalities on reoccupation of Kosovo - it has fulfilled its duties over 1244 and what is going on there now in contravention of 1244 so it must be possible to make a good legal case. Serbia will need to be able to reoccupy at some stage if it is ever to re-establish its territorial integrity. Now that law is on Serbia's side, this should at least be thought about. The international press will not criticise a country that defends its territory by legal means - even if it is against the will of the great US.

The irresponsibility mentioned in the article rests with the US who have stupidly and recklessly put the poitics of democratic Serbia at risk by their inept action.

They will bluster about burnt embassies - but it is bluster. Putting the blame on Serbian politicians who legally defend their territory is also bluster - and may well prove counter productive.

When you hear a man like this ambassador talking, he is trying to cover the fact that actually the emperor is without his clothing.

He would do better to just concentrate on stamping visas.

Eurosceptic

pre 16 godina

Cam, do you realise your Serbian audience’s level of sophistication extends beyond shiny bead and firewater? But they sure can spot a forked tongue.

What exactly are you offering Serbia?

Restoration of Serbia’s territorial integrity?
Cheap, reliable energy supplies?
A key role as energy distribution partner?

All you did was make an overt threat to harm the Serbian people and say that Americans wanted to make money from Serbia. That’s your best try at the carrot and stick approach?

The geo-political landscape is evolving and you are in no position to make threats and Serbia has better economic options than to submit to your sad vision.

Jovan

pre 16 godina

""We will make it work. I just hope that we don’t have to do so, yet again, at the expense of the Serbian people, because of bad leadership," Munter warned."

wow, he´s sending out warnings! :)

well then, go ahead, make it work! I am very eager to see the american public reacting on bad news...

Mr.Munter doesn´t admit, that they simply do not have the capacities to "make it work" at the expense of the serbian poeple. if they should really try to use force, they would only regret it. That, Mr.Munter, would be a "terrible mistake"!

once again B92 is unveiling it´s nature as a PR-tool of the US. good.

Savo Heleta

pre 16 godina

George Bush said that the US supported Kosovo’s independence because his administration “believes it will bring peace.” He may be the president of the most powerful country in the world, but he does not seem to know much about conflict management and peace building.

Long-lasting peace is possible only when parties in a conflict come up with an agreement that accommodates them all. Everything else is a short-term masquerade and a further protraction of conflict and violence.

http://savoheleta.livejournal.com