Either have that clause, or let Serbia enter in the end once all other nations are in. Sorry to put Serbia in the spotlight again, but it's just the way it is.
I know that the numbers are impressive, but the reality on the ground isn't quite so.
I do not say that life is terrible or anything like that (I lived under martial law and lived through the economic collapse of late 80's and early 90's, so I would be an idiot to claim now is the worst time), but the best time for Poland as a free economy was the mid-90's to late 90's. Poland had an open market to everyone, we were the most popular source of investment (I do not think the EU has anything to do with this) for Western states and the prices of everything in Poland (from properties, to consumer good, from technology to services etc.) was very cheap, unlike now.
My point is that Poland was doing great since Walesa took power and it was on the right path, those were the best time for everyone. Since Poland joined the EU, investment into Poland and growth did not really change, Poland managed to maintain its performance since the mid-ninetees to now economically, but since Poland joined the EU, the only things that have changed noticeably for the average Pole is that prices of everything have rocketed through the roof, while earnings have hardly risen as much, not even a fraction.
As for the unemployment, the only reason it went down is because since the borders were opened, Poles flooded the West and the only natural consequence is that unemployment would go down.
If it were up to me, I would have prefered Poland and the other post-communist states to have joined EFTA first and got their economies up to a certain level by themselves, before joining the EU and becoming subsidaries of Germany, France, Italy and the UK, because as things stand now, post-communist states cannot possibly compete with the Western states in this open market, hence the prices and the drain of Poles from Poland.
As for me, I am staying here and not going anywhere, this is my home, I see a future, I just wonder when it will be.
Stevan
That was our biggest problem, and it still is. Since joining the EU, it will continue to be a big problem.
I am not surprised at Mr. Rupel's proposal. Recently Slovenian ambassador to Kosovo said while shaking hands with Hashim Thaci that 'Slovenia has been working on that (Kosovo independence) for 20 years already'!
Our 'friends' from Slovenia are still on a mission since the job has not been done yet.
Vera
I am glad you have shown your concern over the inabilities for Serbian citizens to travel, but before you comment on a diverse state such as Serbia; please do not forget recent history in your own nation where thousands of "Yugoslavs" of many ethnic backgrounds could not become citizens nor travel anywhere outside the borders of Slovenia. Hmm...sounds you have some work to do in the so called "western balkans."
Peter, where do you live? Some figures to prove your comments false from A to Z:
Growtht of ecomomy in Poland 60,5%(2007) - in construction sector it was 17%! (boosted by massive investments in infrastructure, co-financed by the EU) with massive growth of income (more than 10% a year!) in this sector (which is the primary reason for increasing of prices in your country in combination with consumer-rush producing a negative trading bilance); unemployment was reduced permanently since 2004 and will fall under less than 10% in 2008. Direct investions from Non-Poland companies in your country in 2007: more than 15 Billion Euros ...
If people in Serbia SHOULD be really your friends, PETER (?) , why are'nt you honestly telling them the truth?
It is right to say: the first period of transition was difficult for all people living in states which were part of former USSR-system. After 40 years of mismanagment which caused massive structural problems you may not expect to solve all your problems by signing papers. But your country started - and every time when I pass through, I see, how rapidely things change - even in the east and sout-east of your country. I saw the same changes before in Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary with my own eyes - and I am very happy for the people living there. They fight for welfare and for the future of their children. I really adore them - as well as my friends in Serbia, which are looking for European integration, because they already realised, where they live. Do the same, Peter :)
To All who worry about Albanians! Kosova and Albania have energy sources(oil and coal) 10 times of all ballkan states combined. Go in Albania now and beleive your eyes what is happening there!
“… agriculture in Europe… Poland … old mentality, … countries with… modern agriculture like Netherlands producing more food than us even, when we have the capacity to be by far the biggest agricultural power in Europe … “
Unfortunately, it isn’t just a problem of efficiency and modern technology. This is a political question, too. Despite all talks about free, open markets and fair competition, EU agriculture of certain members is heavily subsidized and protected. Only very limited concurrence is allowed. Even if you modernize and rise production dramatically, you would still face difficulties to achieve free access to EU markets without any restrictions.
"Poland in EU is a different story form what Poland was until recently."
I agree with you Olf, some good has come to Poland indeed since joining the EU (roads, infrastructure and new work opportunities), I am not disputing that, though there are also bad things that have come (prices, unemployment and declining social welfare).
Stevan makes a good point by saying that while some have benefited from the EU, many have lost. Social polarization exists more and more.
"Now you are open to a huge competition. In this game not only the fittest that survives but the ones that are most flexible and adaptable to changes. "
You are right Olf, but the thing is it's not much competition when you have developed countries with fully implemented privatization such as Germany, France and the Netherlands compared to developing countries that have barely started to decentralize such as Poland, Slovakia and Lithuania. This is why I say that Eastern Europe should have waited and not pushed.
"I know of price increase in Poland but they have increases due to a larger market."
Indeed, here comes to biggst problem: wages have not increased, apart from here in Warsaw, most of Poland (like from the town where my fiancee comes from), is left with old and sick people, all the youth is gone (some for good even).
"Unemployment in agriculture should be seen as a challenge for all the farmers to join forces and focus in one niche in order to have a competitive price for their goods, otherwise you can import them for a cheaper price."
Once again, you are right with what you say, but once again, Poland was not ready. Since the times of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Poland was the greatest producer of agriculture in Europe, countless nations have fought for our fertile soil, easy terrain and favorable climate, but now Poland is stuck in the old mentality, while you have countries with such modern agriculture like Netherlands producing more food than us even, when we have the capacity to be by far the biggest agricultural power in Europe (apart from Ukraine). Why? We joined too early without solving the problem first, which was, is and will be a problem for a long time.
"Kosova has no choice but to join EU once the opportunity comes around, Kosova is in Europe like it or not."
Switzerland, Iceland and Norway took a different choice, and they are the richest European states. Naturally if the occasion does indeed come around for Kosovo, they would be wise to take it, only at the right time, because these time frames that KS Albanians suggest would leave the country empty and saturated with Western firms. This is my point all along.
This article and some of the posts give the best reasons why Serbia should never join the eu even with Kosovo. Serbia would always be snubbed by most of the other members. The only thing Serbia needs is disciple and faith in itself. Serbia can deal with the eu on a strictly business relationship and only sign trade deals that give Serbia huge benefits. In other words, Serbia has to learn how to act like the us.
Peter, thanks for your advice. Poland in EU is a different story form what Poland was until recently. Now you are open to a huge competition. In this game not only the fittest that survives but the ones that are most flexible and adaptable to changes.
I am aware that EU want all these countries in EU in order to make more money but you are EU. You are supposed to reap the benefits of EU. I know of price increase in Poland but they have increases due to a larger market. Unemployment in agriculture should be seen as a challenge for all the farmers to join forces and focus in one niche in order to have a competitive price for their goods, otherwise you can import them for a cheaper price. Scrubbing toilets was a job that farmers in the past would have done, the point was to find a job like that instead of farming.
Kosova has no choice but to join EU once the opportunity comes around, Kosova is in Europe like it or not.
Adrian/Bucharest
Unfortunately is not only a problem of the Roma people, but as statistic say without any doubts (thefts,prostitution,and so on )there is a problem also with "ethnic Romanians 100%"
Anyway the job fair in Rome has been a good idea but people here want more action from the governament..
I agre with you for the salary problem infact normal people would like less foreign workers here but business people and their servant politicians are always ready to "open" the EU borders to new countries..
Actually in Italy work only 60 % of the population so with the right policies we can do everything without "gestarbaiter" if we implement things that other european state do (in certain countries the percentage are 70-75 % )..
I agree. Sent the thiefs back and we'll send the mafiosi back and then let's put toghether the italian politicians and the romanian politicians and find for them a place on some deserted island so we all can get to work for ourselves.
Auguri!
"… Call me a Euroseptic… benefits are cosmetic in comparison to … negatively impacted Poland … everything has skyrocketed in terms of prices, while our wages stay as low as they have been for years,… "
Yes, many people still think that EU membership is guarantied prosperity for everyone, but it isn't. EU changed a lot last years and most of the changes were against the interests of the common citizens. Only big companies and political elite's of couple of big countries profited, while ordinary people actually went backwards. (Mind you, I'm talking about old, rich, members, let alone new poor ones).
You know and I know that you are reffering to some romanian citizens of gypsy origin that invaded Italy,we somehow did not exterminate them in WW2 like other contries (of course now we are paying for it with our image).
Actually two weeks ago was a job fair in Roma for the romanian workers there and the government is trying to convince them to return.
But you must admit that is very conveniant to pay a "poor" east-european 900 euro per month, black, for a 10-12 hours per day work.
In my post before I was talking about construction cause I work for a construction company (romanian-italian actually) and we did works in Italy also. Trust me without the romanian teams there would have been no finalization of the project.
"EU needs Albanians more than Serbs, couldn’t you see that by now."
You are very naive Olf. The EU does not care about Albanians or Serbs, it sees both as a new source of business, so companies can invest their Euros and open companies, not to mention that natural resources would be exploited, also once again only for money.
Call me a Euroseptic, but my country has been in the EU for 4 years now, and I can tell you that the only realy changes and benefits are cosmetic in comparison to how the EU has negatively impacted Poland (property prices, consumer goods, perishables, technology, medicine... literally everything has skyrocketed in terms of prices, while our wages stay as low as they have been for years, not to mention how unemployment has risen due to modernization of agriculture and industry, forcing them out to other countries to scrub toilets when they should be used in factories or on farms).
Nothing different awaits Serbia or Albania, sorry to say, you are talking to someone who has experience.
For youre information, we are not waiting for Albanians in the EU either.
(read as : No way that we will vote for more members)
go create youre own 'EU' organisation and stop living off our backs.
And as Luigi allready stated, it's time to kick out some bad performing members (and that includes Italy)
b92, I've noticed recently spelling and grammatical mistakes finding their way into articles, please be alittle more careful before you hit the submit button...
Today, for example, "LJUBLJANA -- Dimitrij Rupel says west Balkan nations should sign an deal on joining the EU not to veto other states’ entry."
It should read...'Balkan nations should sign A deal, not AN deal'
“How will Serbia’s youth vote responsibly at elections, if they have still not traveled in the Union?” wondered Rupel.
By this I assume that all the "youth" of Slovenia have travelled extensively throughout the EU in the couple of years they have been members. Yeah sure!
Is this guy for real? There is definitely something worrying in the Slovenian mentality if this man is representative.
Unbelievable, so much hate for EU entry coming form Serbian posters. Guys, nobody is going to force you to sign something you don’t want. With the time all of you will ask for the same deal to be on the table, like it or not. I don know whether you have hear old Serb saying,” Sheep that separates form the herd gets eaten by the wolf.”
Michael Thomas is right but I would like to add that most of Poles that have moved to(with exceptions of course) UK are not of the higher and superior education.
ZK UK is worrying so much about the Albanian population moving to EU or not being allowed to move freely. ZK UK, EU are not crazy enough to carry Milosevic policies as you propose. EU needs Albanians more than Serbs, couldn’t you see that by now. Mate, so far, neither have offered nothing but crises to EU. Further more, Ronald-Ron does not want you as well in EU.
I wonder which particular states Mr. Rupel is referring to with the Western Balkans. Could this be a prelude to the idea that countries can join the EU even if others veto their entry? It certainly looks as if it is leading to this.
Not that I have a problem with it, so long as Turkey never becomes a part of the EU, they can twist the rules all they like and cover it with statements like these.
Adrian and Michael Thomas
This is exactly why I ask Kosovo people why the EU is so attractive for them, when the exact same thing is going to happen to them? Already there are masses of Albanians abroad, it will only get much, much more if they ever join the EU. I see nothing bright in that.
Poland has become a subsidary of Germany, it's only an easy investment opportunity for them to start companies here, so many people have left here (most of my friends, even many of those left are planning to go), it's crazy! Kosovo will be the same, if not worse, looking as it is. Soon Eastern Europe will have the same immigrant problem that the West has with millions of Turks, Arabs, Africans and others being taken to work.
There is such polarization between the rich Western states and the poor Eastern ones that I cannot see it ending anytime soon. To Kosovo Albanians they just see $ in their eyes, but the reality of it is that they will be nothing but an investment playground and source for cheap labour. Serbia too if they ever take that path, and that is a promise I can guarentee!
Adrian/bucharest
Here in Italy we will pay with joy the one-way ticket if your country decide to rempatriate all the romanians that we have here...so if you have all this problems with your workforce please take a note we can quickly help you !
But as you know when our governament made some expulsions your governament ask to stop ! so ..
Current Eu members can always deny acces to theire states for citizens from new members.
Even as we speak the Polish are still not legally allowed to come to the Netherlands to get unrestricted work.
In the case off the balkan states the dutch will probably at least wait 5 years after becoming an member before allowing balkan citizens to work in the Netherlands.
So don't get youre hopes up, even if some balkan state manages to get in the EU that doesn't mean you can come work here the next day.
P.S. We have enough foreign EU workers so stay put in the Balkan, there isn't any work for the balkan citizens here anyway.
So now Rupel is blocking the suggestions of his DS friends who say in the EU they can wield greater leverage over Kosovo & Metohija - wow what a friend he is undermining the very agruments that DS have built for EU accession and will be their Parlimentary election platform!!!
Bganon, your EU friends say you must accept all dictate - are you so submissive to all these and as yet untold conditions?
This is becoming farcical and it is clear Rupel has a distaste for Serbia who ever is in government!
So now Serbia must have the conditions of surrendering Bosnian (Ratko Mladic) and Montengrin (Vuk Karadzic) war criminal indictees who might be in Serbia but equally could be in BiH, Montenegro or timbucktoo for all the worlds intelligence agencies know!!!
Now this is followed by the condition that Serbia must be partitioned and dismembered, thirdly they must vote in only who the EU want! Now Rupel suggests that when in the club of "equal members" extra new conditions will be applied - they can't use leverage which is ironically exactly what Slovenia is doing against Croatia in its border dispute!!! What other conditions will be applied to join this so called "union of equals" ???
Sure, if Serbia ever did join it is expected a few people would leave, however, what do you think the Albanians would do?
I remember the images of boats full of Albanians heading to Italy. If they ever had access to the EU, I think both Kosovo and Albania would be emptied. The thought has come across that they are intentionally being placed into a reservation to keep them there. It's quite sad actually!
Do you really think the EU has plans to let them in? It's interesting to see the EU seal the Albanians in and then openly welcome Serbia - saying it is for the best! Make you wonder.
Is this Rupel a real person or just a character in a mind blowing satire?
Or is there some funny fellow working in B92 who twists the words of a real Rupel in order to emphasize the element of absurdity in politics?
Even Velimir Ilić starts to sound as a reasonable politician compared to this real/fictionalized Rupel. (OK, I admit I did exaggerate a little now. But you know what I mean.)
Outlining his idea, Rupel said that it was justified by “the rhetoric and practice of exclusivity that we’ve recently heard,” and repeated that the EU was the only alternative in the west Balkans.
--
Just in case you missed it, there is another alternative to the EU for the Western Balkans and that is, suprisingly, NOT to join the EU.
No one is buying this one-way only approach. Just like Kosovo is not unique!
(Michael Thomas, 12 March 2008 10:37)
I agree with you. Something more or less similar has happened in Romania too. now, the Government is trying to struck a deal to import 100.000 workers from China and bangladesh as a start. In construction especially is becoming a nightmare.
Same thing happened also in the Baltic states and I remember last summer in Latvia when a restaurant owner told us straight in the face that we have to go somewhere else cause they just do not have waiters anymore.
For your information I am the one that travelled a great deall of the time and I will make sure to vote responsibly in these elections and my vote certainly won’t be for those who run into the EU at any costs.
You see Mr Rupel, by travelling abroad I have seen intact countries within its original borders, I have seen in each country a national pride and care for its history (something that you recommend Serbs not to have, otherwise they are nationalists).
Mr Rupel, you first have no moral to say anything since your country wiped away thousands of its citizens and withheld them a citizenship. Your citizens have brutally expelled Roma people and police helped them in that action. Do you want young Serbian people to see that? I personally would like them to see that and the rest of the Europe and hope they will finally learn how to love its own country. Our country is maybe poor, but very cosy and very free in every sense.
I watched a programme on British TV last night about the recent arrival of over 1 million East European immigrants into Britain, many of them Polish.
These immigrants are hardworking, law abiding, white Christians who will quickly integrate into British society.
The big problem, however, is in their homelands. In Poland, for example, it is estimated that since their entry into the EU over 2 million young Poles (mostly men) have left the country to find work abroad. These are not Gastarbeiter (people who move abroad temporarily for work), these are Polish emigrants. The vast majority have no intention of returning to Poland, except perhaps at retirement.
This programme showed the famous Gdansk shipyard where the Polish Solidarnosc movement started. The shipyard now employs many Chinese and North Korean workers because there are no Polish workers available.
Gdansk must build a major new football stadium for the 2012 European Football Championship. There are not enough building workers to complete this project.
The crisis in Poland is only going to get worse. Bus loads of young men are leaving their homeland for what they believe is a better life in the Germany, Britain and elsewhere in Western Europe.
What is happening to Poland today is what awaits Serbia tomorrow. The EU is suffering very low birth-rates and needs immigrants to fill the posts of those retiring.
The western EU states have decided to limit the numbers of Third-World immigrants and to take more East Europeans.
While this may make perfect sense for the EU, it means the death of East European civilisation. Poland will quickly be emptied of working age people and their children. All that will be left will be their ageing parents who will be looked after by Chinese, Indians and Africans who will be pleased to take over Poland once it has been abandoned by the Poles.
What is happening today in Poland is what will happen to Serbia if they join the EU.
"Dimitrij Rupel says west Balkan nations should sign an deal on joining the EU not to veto other states’ entry."
I wonder what France and the Netherlands have to say about this given the recent results on the E Constitution. How about other members? How about the criteria to be achieved?
So that Slovenia will keep an upper hand and privileged right to obstruct EU access and to intrude in internal affair of other West Balkan states.
Ha, Ha, Ha
Mr Rupel you grew up too too big.
Alert: someone may have a needle!
For your information I am the one that travelled a great deall of the time and I will make sure to vote responsibly in these elections and my vote certainly won’t be for those who run into the EU at any costs.
You see Mr Rupel, by travelling abroad I have seen intact countries within its original borders, I have seen in each country a national pride and care for its history (something that you recommend Serbs not to have, otherwise they are nationalists).
Mr Rupel, you first have no moral to say anything since your country wiped away thousands of its citizens and withheld them a citizenship. Your citizens have brutally expelled Roma people and police helped them in that action. Do you want young Serbian people to see that? I personally would like them to see that and the rest of the Europe and hope they will finally learn how to love its own country. Our country is maybe poor, but very cosy and very free in every sense.
I watched a programme on British TV last night about the recent arrival of over 1 million East European immigrants into Britain, many of them Polish.
These immigrants are hardworking, law abiding, white Christians who will quickly integrate into British society.
The big problem, however, is in their homelands. In Poland, for example, it is estimated that since their entry into the EU over 2 million young Poles (mostly men) have left the country to find work abroad. These are not Gastarbeiter (people who move abroad temporarily for work), these are Polish emigrants. The vast majority have no intention of returning to Poland, except perhaps at retirement.
This programme showed the famous Gdansk shipyard where the Polish Solidarnosc movement started. The shipyard now employs many Chinese and North Korean workers because there are no Polish workers available.
Gdansk must build a major new football stadium for the 2012 European Football Championship. There are not enough building workers to complete this project.
The crisis in Poland is only going to get worse. Bus loads of young men are leaving their homeland for what they believe is a better life in the Germany, Britain and elsewhere in Western Europe.
What is happening to Poland today is what awaits Serbia tomorrow. The EU is suffering very low birth-rates and needs immigrants to fill the posts of those retiring.
The western EU states have decided to limit the numbers of Third-World immigrants and to take more East Europeans.
While this may make perfect sense for the EU, it means the death of East European civilisation. Poland will quickly be emptied of working age people and their children. All that will be left will be their ageing parents who will be looked after by Chinese, Indians and Africans who will be pleased to take over Poland once it has been abandoned by the Poles.
What is happening today in Poland is what will happen to Serbia if they join the EU.
So that Slovenia will keep an upper hand and privileged right to obstruct EU access and to intrude in internal affair of other West Balkan states.
Ha, Ha, Ha
Mr Rupel you grew up too too big.
Alert: someone may have a needle!
(Michael Thomas, 12 March 2008 10:37)
I agree with you. Something more or less similar has happened in Romania too. now, the Government is trying to struck a deal to import 100.000 workers from China and bangladesh as a start. In construction especially is becoming a nightmare.
Same thing happened also in the Baltic states and I remember last summer in Latvia when a restaurant owner told us straight in the face that we have to go somewhere else cause they just do not have waiters anymore.
Outlining his idea, Rupel said that it was justified by “the rhetoric and practice of exclusivity that we’ve recently heard,” and repeated that the EU was the only alternative in the west Balkans.
--
Just in case you missed it, there is another alternative to the EU for the Western Balkans and that is, suprisingly, NOT to join the EU.
No one is buying this one-way only approach. Just like Kosovo is not unique!
“How will Serbia’s youth vote responsibly at elections, if they have still not traveled in the Union?” wondered Rupel.
By this I assume that all the "youth" of Slovenia have travelled extensively throughout the EU in the couple of years they have been members. Yeah sure!
Is this guy for real? There is definitely something worrying in the Slovenian mentality if this man is representative.
So now Rupel is blocking the suggestions of his DS friends who say in the EU they can wield greater leverage over Kosovo & Metohija - wow what a friend he is undermining the very agruments that DS have built for EU accession and will be their Parlimentary election platform!!!
Bganon, your EU friends say you must accept all dictate - are you so submissive to all these and as yet untold conditions?
This is becoming farcical and it is clear Rupel has a distaste for Serbia who ever is in government!
So now Serbia must have the conditions of surrendering Bosnian (Ratko Mladic) and Montengrin (Vuk Karadzic) war criminal indictees who might be in Serbia but equally could be in BiH, Montenegro or timbucktoo for all the worlds intelligence agencies know!!!
Now this is followed by the condition that Serbia must be partitioned and dismembered, thirdly they must vote in only who the EU want! Now Rupel suggests that when in the club of "equal members" extra new conditions will be applied - they can't use leverage which is ironically exactly what Slovenia is doing against Croatia in its border dispute!!! What other conditions will be applied to join this so called "union of equals" ???
Sure, if Serbia ever did join it is expected a few people would leave, however, what do you think the Albanians would do?
I remember the images of boats full of Albanians heading to Italy. If they ever had access to the EU, I think both Kosovo and Albania would be emptied. The thought has come across that they are intentionally being placed into a reservation to keep them there. It's quite sad actually!
Do you really think the EU has plans to let them in? It's interesting to see the EU seal the Albanians in and then openly welcome Serbia - saying it is for the best! Make you wonder.
I wonder which particular states Mr. Rupel is referring to with the Western Balkans. Could this be a prelude to the idea that countries can join the EU even if others veto their entry? It certainly looks as if it is leading to this.
Not that I have a problem with it, so long as Turkey never becomes a part of the EU, they can twist the rules all they like and cover it with statements like these.
Adrian and Michael Thomas
This is exactly why I ask Kosovo people why the EU is so attractive for them, when the exact same thing is going to happen to them? Already there are masses of Albanians abroad, it will only get much, much more if they ever join the EU. I see nothing bright in that.
Poland has become a subsidary of Germany, it's only an easy investment opportunity for them to start companies here, so many people have left here (most of my friends, even many of those left are planning to go), it's crazy! Kosovo will be the same, if not worse, looking as it is. Soon Eastern Europe will have the same immigrant problem that the West has with millions of Turks, Arabs, Africans and others being taken to work.
There is such polarization between the rich Western states and the poor Eastern ones that I cannot see it ending anytime soon. To Kosovo Albanians they just see $ in their eyes, but the reality of it is that they will be nothing but an investment playground and source for cheap labour. Serbia too if they ever take that path, and that is a promise I can guarentee!
Is this Rupel a real person or just a character in a mind blowing satire?
Or is there some funny fellow working in B92 who twists the words of a real Rupel in order to emphasize the element of absurdity in politics?
Even Velimir Ilić starts to sound as a reasonable politician compared to this real/fictionalized Rupel. (OK, I admit I did exaggerate a little now. But you know what I mean.)
"EU needs Albanians more than Serbs, couldn’t you see that by now."
You are very naive Olf. The EU does not care about Albanians or Serbs, it sees both as a new source of business, so companies can invest their Euros and open companies, not to mention that natural resources would be exploited, also once again only for money.
Call me a Euroseptic, but my country has been in the EU for 4 years now, and I can tell you that the only realy changes and benefits are cosmetic in comparison to how the EU has negatively impacted Poland (property prices, consumer goods, perishables, technology, medicine... literally everything has skyrocketed in terms of prices, while our wages stay as low as they have been for years, not to mention how unemployment has risen due to modernization of agriculture and industry, forcing them out to other countries to scrub toilets when they should be used in factories or on farms).
Nothing different awaits Serbia or Albania, sorry to say, you are talking to someone who has experience.
"Dimitrij Rupel says west Balkan nations should sign an deal on joining the EU not to veto other states’ entry."
I wonder what France and the Netherlands have to say about this given the recent results on the E Constitution. How about other members? How about the criteria to be achieved?
"… Call me a Euroseptic… benefits are cosmetic in comparison to … negatively impacted Poland … everything has skyrocketed in terms of prices, while our wages stay as low as they have been for years,… "
Yes, many people still think that EU membership is guarantied prosperity for everyone, but it isn't. EU changed a lot last years and most of the changes were against the interests of the common citizens. Only big companies and political elite's of couple of big countries profited, while ordinary people actually went backwards. (Mind you, I'm talking about old, rich, members, let alone new poor ones).
You know and I know that you are reffering to some romanian citizens of gypsy origin that invaded Italy,we somehow did not exterminate them in WW2 like other contries (of course now we are paying for it with our image).
Actually two weeks ago was a job fair in Roma for the romanian workers there and the government is trying to convince them to return.
But you must admit that is very conveniant to pay a "poor" east-european 900 euro per month, black, for a 10-12 hours per day work.
In my post before I was talking about construction cause I work for a construction company (romanian-italian actually) and we did works in Italy also. Trust me without the romanian teams there would have been no finalization of the project.
This article and some of the posts give the best reasons why Serbia should never join the eu even with Kosovo. Serbia would always be snubbed by most of the other members. The only thing Serbia needs is disciple and faith in itself. Serbia can deal with the eu on a strictly business relationship and only sign trade deals that give Serbia huge benefits. In other words, Serbia has to learn how to act like the us.
"Poland in EU is a different story form what Poland was until recently."
I agree with you Olf, some good has come to Poland indeed since joining the EU (roads, infrastructure and new work opportunities), I am not disputing that, though there are also bad things that have come (prices, unemployment and declining social welfare).
Stevan makes a good point by saying that while some have benefited from the EU, many have lost. Social polarization exists more and more.
"Now you are open to a huge competition. In this game not only the fittest that survives but the ones that are most flexible and adaptable to changes. "
You are right Olf, but the thing is it's not much competition when you have developed countries with fully implemented privatization such as Germany, France and the Netherlands compared to developing countries that have barely started to decentralize such as Poland, Slovakia and Lithuania. This is why I say that Eastern Europe should have waited and not pushed.
"I know of price increase in Poland but they have increases due to a larger market."
Indeed, here comes to biggst problem: wages have not increased, apart from here in Warsaw, most of Poland (like from the town where my fiancee comes from), is left with old and sick people, all the youth is gone (some for good even).
"Unemployment in agriculture should be seen as a challenge for all the farmers to join forces and focus in one niche in order to have a competitive price for their goods, otherwise you can import them for a cheaper price."
Once again, you are right with what you say, but once again, Poland was not ready. Since the times of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Poland was the greatest producer of agriculture in Europe, countless nations have fought for our fertile soil, easy terrain and favorable climate, but now Poland is stuck in the old mentality, while you have countries with such modern agriculture like Netherlands producing more food than us even, when we have the capacity to be by far the biggest agricultural power in Europe (apart from Ukraine). Why? We joined too early without solving the problem first, which was, is and will be a problem for a long time.
"Kosova has no choice but to join EU once the opportunity comes around, Kosova is in Europe like it or not."
Switzerland, Iceland and Norway took a different choice, and they are the richest European states. Naturally if the occasion does indeed come around for Kosovo, they would be wise to take it, only at the right time, because these time frames that KS Albanians suggest would leave the country empty and saturated with Western firms. This is my point all along.
I am not surprised at Mr. Rupel's proposal. Recently Slovenian ambassador to Kosovo said while shaking hands with Hashim Thaci that 'Slovenia has been working on that (Kosovo independence) for 20 years already'!
Our 'friends' from Slovenia are still on a mission since the job has not been done yet.
Vera
Peter, thanks for your advice. Poland in EU is a different story form what Poland was until recently. Now you are open to a huge competition. In this game not only the fittest that survives but the ones that are most flexible and adaptable to changes.
I am aware that EU want all these countries in EU in order to make more money but you are EU. You are supposed to reap the benefits of EU. I know of price increase in Poland but they have increases due to a larger market. Unemployment in agriculture should be seen as a challenge for all the farmers to join forces and focus in one niche in order to have a competitive price for their goods, otherwise you can import them for a cheaper price. Scrubbing toilets was a job that farmers in the past would have done, the point was to find a job like that instead of farming.
Kosova has no choice but to join EU once the opportunity comes around, Kosova is in Europe like it or not.
Current Eu members can always deny acces to theire states for citizens from new members.
Even as we speak the Polish are still not legally allowed to come to the Netherlands to get unrestricted work.
In the case off the balkan states the dutch will probably at least wait 5 years after becoming an member before allowing balkan citizens to work in the Netherlands.
So don't get youre hopes up, even if some balkan state manages to get in the EU that doesn't mean you can come work here the next day.
P.S. We have enough foreign EU workers so stay put in the Balkan, there isn't any work for the balkan citizens here anyway.
I am glad you have shown your concern over the inabilities for Serbian citizens to travel, but before you comment on a diverse state such as Serbia; please do not forget recent history in your own nation where thousands of "Yugoslavs" of many ethnic backgrounds could not become citizens nor travel anywhere outside the borders of Slovenia. Hmm...sounds you have some work to do in the so called "western balkans."
“… agriculture in Europe… Poland … old mentality, … countries with… modern agriculture like Netherlands producing more food than us even, when we have the capacity to be by far the biggest agricultural power in Europe … “
Unfortunately, it isn’t just a problem of efficiency and modern technology. This is a political question, too. Despite all talks about free, open markets and fair competition, EU agriculture of certain members is heavily subsidized and protected. Only very limited concurrence is allowed. Even if you modernize and rise production dramatically, you would still face difficulties to achieve free access to EU markets without any restrictions.
I agree. Sent the thiefs back and we'll send the mafiosi back and then let's put toghether the italian politicians and the romanian politicians and find for them a place on some deserted island so we all can get to work for ourselves.
Auguri!
To All who worry about Albanians! Kosova and Albania have energy sources(oil and coal) 10 times of all ballkan states combined. Go in Albania now and beleive your eyes what is happening there!
Peter, where do you live? Some figures to prove your comments false from A to Z:
Growtht of ecomomy in Poland 60,5%(2007) - in construction sector it was 17%! (boosted by massive investments in infrastructure, co-financed by the EU) with massive growth of income (more than 10% a year!) in this sector (which is the primary reason for increasing of prices in your country in combination with consumer-rush producing a negative trading bilance); unemployment was reduced permanently since 2004 and will fall under less than 10% in 2008. Direct investions from Non-Poland companies in your country in 2007: more than 15 Billion Euros ...
If people in Serbia SHOULD be really your friends, PETER (?) , why are'nt you honestly telling them the truth?
It is right to say: the first period of transition was difficult for all people living in states which were part of former USSR-system. After 40 years of mismanagment which caused massive structural problems you may not expect to solve all your problems by signing papers. But your country started - and every time when I pass through, I see, how rapidely things change - even in the east and sout-east of your country. I saw the same changes before in Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary with my own eyes - and I am very happy for the people living there. They fight for welfare and for the future of their children. I really adore them - as well as my friends in Serbia, which are looking for European integration, because they already realised, where they live. Do the same, Peter :)
Adrian/bucharest
Here in Italy we will pay with joy the one-way ticket if your country decide to rempatriate all the romanians that we have here...so if you have all this problems with your workforce please take a note we can quickly help you !
But as you know when our governament made some expulsions your governament ask to stop ! so ..
I know that the numbers are impressive, but the reality on the ground isn't quite so.
I do not say that life is terrible or anything like that (I lived under martial law and lived through the economic collapse of late 80's and early 90's, so I would be an idiot to claim now is the worst time), but the best time for Poland as a free economy was the mid-90's to late 90's. Poland had an open market to everyone, we were the most popular source of investment (I do not think the EU has anything to do with this) for Western states and the prices of everything in Poland (from properties, to consumer good, from technology to services etc.) was very cheap, unlike now.
My point is that Poland was doing great since Walesa took power and it was on the right path, those were the best time for everyone. Since Poland joined the EU, investment into Poland and growth did not really change, Poland managed to maintain its performance since the mid-ninetees to now economically, but since Poland joined the EU, the only things that have changed noticeably for the average Pole is that prices of everything have rocketed through the roof, while earnings have hardly risen as much, not even a fraction.
As for the unemployment, the only reason it went down is because since the borders were opened, Poles flooded the West and the only natural consequence is that unemployment would go down.
If it were up to me, I would have prefered Poland and the other post-communist states to have joined EFTA first and got their economies up to a certain level by themselves, before joining the EU and becoming subsidaries of Germany, France, Italy and the UK, because as things stand now, post-communist states cannot possibly compete with the Western states in this open market, hence the prices and the drain of Poles from Poland.
As for me, I am staying here and not going anywhere, this is my home, I see a future, I just wonder when it will be.
Stevan
That was our biggest problem, and it still is. Since joining the EU, it will continue to be a big problem.
b92, I've noticed recently spelling and grammatical mistakes finding their way into articles, please be alittle more careful before you hit the submit button...
Today, for example, "LJUBLJANA -- Dimitrij Rupel says west Balkan nations should sign an deal on joining the EU not to veto other states’ entry."
It should read...'Balkan nations should sign A deal, not AN deal'
For youre information, we are not waiting for Albanians in the EU either.
(read as : No way that we will vote for more members)
go create youre own 'EU' organisation and stop living off our backs.
And as Luigi allready stated, it's time to kick out some bad performing members (and that includes Italy)
Unbelievable, so much hate for EU entry coming form Serbian posters. Guys, nobody is going to force you to sign something you don’t want. With the time all of you will ask for the same deal to be on the table, like it or not. I don know whether you have hear old Serb saying,” Sheep that separates form the herd gets eaten by the wolf.”
Michael Thomas is right but I would like to add that most of Poles that have moved to(with exceptions of course) UK are not of the higher and superior education.
ZK UK is worrying so much about the Albanian population moving to EU or not being allowed to move freely. ZK UK, EU are not crazy enough to carry Milosevic policies as you propose. EU needs Albanians more than Serbs, couldn’t you see that by now. Mate, so far, neither have offered nothing but crises to EU. Further more, Ronald-Ron does not want you as well in EU.
Adrian/Bucharest
Unfortunately is not only a problem of the Roma people, but as statistic say without any doubts (thefts,prostitution,and so on )there is a problem also with "ethnic Romanians 100%"
Anyway the job fair in Rome has been a good idea but people here want more action from the governament..
I agre with you for the salary problem infact normal people would like less foreign workers here but business people and their servant politicians are always ready to "open" the EU borders to new countries..
Actually in Italy work only 60 % of the population so with the right policies we can do everything without "gestarbaiter" if we implement things that other european state do (in certain countries the percentage are 70-75 % )..
Either have that clause, or let Serbia enter in the end once all other nations are in. Sorry to put Serbia in the spotlight again, but it's just the way it is.
Unbelievable, so much hate for EU entry coming form Serbian posters. Guys, nobody is going to force you to sign something you don’t want. With the time all of you will ask for the same deal to be on the table, like it or not. I don know whether you have hear old Serb saying,” Sheep that separates form the herd gets eaten by the wolf.”
Michael Thomas is right but I would like to add that most of Poles that have moved to(with exceptions of course) UK are not of the higher and superior education.
ZK UK is worrying so much about the Albanian population moving to EU or not being allowed to move freely. ZK UK, EU are not crazy enough to carry Milosevic policies as you propose. EU needs Albanians more than Serbs, couldn’t you see that by now. Mate, so far, neither have offered nothing but crises to EU. Further more, Ronald-Ron does not want you as well in EU.
Peter, thanks for your advice. Poland in EU is a different story form what Poland was until recently. Now you are open to a huge competition. In this game not only the fittest that survives but the ones that are most flexible and adaptable to changes.
I am aware that EU want all these countries in EU in order to make more money but you are EU. You are supposed to reap the benefits of EU. I know of price increase in Poland but they have increases due to a larger market. Unemployment in agriculture should be seen as a challenge for all the farmers to join forces and focus in one niche in order to have a competitive price for their goods, otherwise you can import them for a cheaper price. Scrubbing toilets was a job that farmers in the past would have done, the point was to find a job like that instead of farming.
Kosova has no choice but to join EU once the opportunity comes around, Kosova is in Europe like it or not.
Is this Rupel a real person or just a character in a mind blowing satire?
Or is there some funny fellow working in B92 who twists the words of a real Rupel in order to emphasize the element of absurdity in politics?
Even Velimir Ilić starts to sound as a reasonable politician compared to this real/fictionalized Rupel. (OK, I admit I did exaggerate a little now. But you know what I mean.)
Current Eu members can always deny acces to theire states for citizens from new members.
Even as we speak the Polish are still not legally allowed to come to the Netherlands to get unrestricted work.
In the case off the balkan states the dutch will probably at least wait 5 years after becoming an member before allowing balkan citizens to work in the Netherlands.
So don't get youre hopes up, even if some balkan state manages to get in the EU that doesn't mean you can come work here the next day.
P.S. We have enough foreign EU workers so stay put in the Balkan, there isn't any work for the balkan citizens here anyway.
Adrian/bucharest
Here in Italy we will pay with joy the one-way ticket if your country decide to rempatriate all the romanians that we have here...so if you have all this problems with your workforce please take a note we can quickly help you !
But as you know when our governament made some expulsions your governament ask to stop ! so ..
b92, I've noticed recently spelling and grammatical mistakes finding their way into articles, please be alittle more careful before you hit the submit button...
Today, for example, "LJUBLJANA -- Dimitrij Rupel says west Balkan nations should sign an deal on joining the EU not to veto other states’ entry."
It should read...'Balkan nations should sign A deal, not AN deal'
Adrian/Bucharest
Unfortunately is not only a problem of the Roma people, but as statistic say without any doubts (thefts,prostitution,and so on )there is a problem also with "ethnic Romanians 100%"
Anyway the job fair in Rome has been a good idea but people here want more action from the governament..
I agre with you for the salary problem infact normal people would like less foreign workers here but business people and their servant politicians are always ready to "open" the EU borders to new countries..
Actually in Italy work only 60 % of the population so with the right policies we can do everything without "gestarbaiter" if we implement things that other european state do (in certain countries the percentage are 70-75 % )..
So that Slovenia will keep an upper hand and privileged right to obstruct EU access and to intrude in internal affair of other West Balkan states.
Ha, Ha, Ha
Mr Rupel you grew up too too big.
Alert: someone may have a needle!
I watched a programme on British TV last night about the recent arrival of over 1 million East European immigrants into Britain, many of them Polish.
These immigrants are hardworking, law abiding, white Christians who will quickly integrate into British society.
The big problem, however, is in their homelands. In Poland, for example, it is estimated that since their entry into the EU over 2 million young Poles (mostly men) have left the country to find work abroad. These are not Gastarbeiter (people who move abroad temporarily for work), these are Polish emigrants. The vast majority have no intention of returning to Poland, except perhaps at retirement.
This programme showed the famous Gdansk shipyard where the Polish Solidarnosc movement started. The shipyard now employs many Chinese and North Korean workers because there are no Polish workers available.
Gdansk must build a major new football stadium for the 2012 European Football Championship. There are not enough building workers to complete this project.
The crisis in Poland is only going to get worse. Bus loads of young men are leaving their homeland for what they believe is a better life in the Germany, Britain and elsewhere in Western Europe.
What is happening to Poland today is what awaits Serbia tomorrow. The EU is suffering very low birth-rates and needs immigrants to fill the posts of those retiring.
The western EU states have decided to limit the numbers of Third-World immigrants and to take more East Europeans.
While this may make perfect sense for the EU, it means the death of East European civilisation. Poland will quickly be emptied of working age people and their children. All that will be left will be their ageing parents who will be looked after by Chinese, Indians and Africans who will be pleased to take over Poland once it has been abandoned by the Poles.
What is happening today in Poland is what will happen to Serbia if they join the EU.
"Dimitrij Rupel says west Balkan nations should sign an deal on joining the EU not to veto other states’ entry."
I wonder what France and the Netherlands have to say about this given the recent results on the E Constitution. How about other members? How about the criteria to be achieved?
For your information I am the one that travelled a great deall of the time and I will make sure to vote responsibly in these elections and my vote certainly won’t be for those who run into the EU at any costs.
You see Mr Rupel, by travelling abroad I have seen intact countries within its original borders, I have seen in each country a national pride and care for its history (something that you recommend Serbs not to have, otherwise they are nationalists).
Mr Rupel, you first have no moral to say anything since your country wiped away thousands of its citizens and withheld them a citizenship. Your citizens have brutally expelled Roma people and police helped them in that action. Do you want young Serbian people to see that? I personally would like them to see that and the rest of the Europe and hope they will finally learn how to love its own country. Our country is maybe poor, but very cosy and very free in every sense.
(Michael Thomas, 12 March 2008 10:37)
I agree with you. Something more or less similar has happened in Romania too. now, the Government is trying to struck a deal to import 100.000 workers from China and bangladesh as a start. In construction especially is becoming a nightmare.
Same thing happened also in the Baltic states and I remember last summer in Latvia when a restaurant owner told us straight in the face that we have to go somewhere else cause they just do not have waiters anymore.
Outlining his idea, Rupel said that it was justified by “the rhetoric and practice of exclusivity that we’ve recently heard,” and repeated that the EU was the only alternative in the west Balkans.
--
Just in case you missed it, there is another alternative to the EU for the Western Balkans and that is, suprisingly, NOT to join the EU.
No one is buying this one-way only approach. Just like Kosovo is not unique!
Sure, if Serbia ever did join it is expected a few people would leave, however, what do you think the Albanians would do?
I remember the images of boats full of Albanians heading to Italy. If they ever had access to the EU, I think both Kosovo and Albania would be emptied. The thought has come across that they are intentionally being placed into a reservation to keep them there. It's quite sad actually!
Do you really think the EU has plans to let them in? It's interesting to see the EU seal the Albanians in and then openly welcome Serbia - saying it is for the best! Make you wonder.
So now Rupel is blocking the suggestions of his DS friends who say in the EU they can wield greater leverage over Kosovo & Metohija - wow what a friend he is undermining the very agruments that DS have built for EU accession and will be their Parlimentary election platform!!!
Bganon, your EU friends say you must accept all dictate - are you so submissive to all these and as yet untold conditions?
This is becoming farcical and it is clear Rupel has a distaste for Serbia who ever is in government!
So now Serbia must have the conditions of surrendering Bosnian (Ratko Mladic) and Montengrin (Vuk Karadzic) war criminal indictees who might be in Serbia but equally could be in BiH, Montenegro or timbucktoo for all the worlds intelligence agencies know!!!
Now this is followed by the condition that Serbia must be partitioned and dismembered, thirdly they must vote in only who the EU want! Now Rupel suggests that when in the club of "equal members" extra new conditions will be applied - they can't use leverage which is ironically exactly what Slovenia is doing against Croatia in its border dispute!!! What other conditions will be applied to join this so called "union of equals" ???
I wonder which particular states Mr. Rupel is referring to with the Western Balkans. Could this be a prelude to the idea that countries can join the EU even if others veto their entry? It certainly looks as if it is leading to this.
Not that I have a problem with it, so long as Turkey never becomes a part of the EU, they can twist the rules all they like and cover it with statements like these.
Adrian and Michael Thomas
This is exactly why I ask Kosovo people why the EU is so attractive for them, when the exact same thing is going to happen to them? Already there are masses of Albanians abroad, it will only get much, much more if they ever join the EU. I see nothing bright in that.
Poland has become a subsidary of Germany, it's only an easy investment opportunity for them to start companies here, so many people have left here (most of my friends, even many of those left are planning to go), it's crazy! Kosovo will be the same, if not worse, looking as it is. Soon Eastern Europe will have the same immigrant problem that the West has with millions of Turks, Arabs, Africans and others being taken to work.
There is such polarization between the rich Western states and the poor Eastern ones that I cannot see it ending anytime soon. To Kosovo Albanians they just see $ in their eyes, but the reality of it is that they will be nothing but an investment playground and source for cheap labour. Serbia too if they ever take that path, and that is a promise I can guarentee!
“How will Serbia’s youth vote responsibly at elections, if they have still not traveled in the Union?” wondered Rupel.
By this I assume that all the "youth" of Slovenia have travelled extensively throughout the EU in the couple of years they have been members. Yeah sure!
Is this guy for real? There is definitely something worrying in the Slovenian mentality if this man is representative.
You know and I know that you are reffering to some romanian citizens of gypsy origin that invaded Italy,we somehow did not exterminate them in WW2 like other contries (of course now we are paying for it with our image).
Actually two weeks ago was a job fair in Roma for the romanian workers there and the government is trying to convince them to return.
But you must admit that is very conveniant to pay a "poor" east-european 900 euro per month, black, for a 10-12 hours per day work.
In my post before I was talking about construction cause I work for a construction company (romanian-italian actually) and we did works in Italy also. Trust me without the romanian teams there would have been no finalization of the project.
For youre information, we are not waiting for Albanians in the EU either.
(read as : No way that we will vote for more members)
go create youre own 'EU' organisation and stop living off our backs.
And as Luigi allready stated, it's time to kick out some bad performing members (and that includes Italy)
"EU needs Albanians more than Serbs, couldn’t you see that by now."
You are very naive Olf. The EU does not care about Albanians or Serbs, it sees both as a new source of business, so companies can invest their Euros and open companies, not to mention that natural resources would be exploited, also once again only for money.
Call me a Euroseptic, but my country has been in the EU for 4 years now, and I can tell you that the only realy changes and benefits are cosmetic in comparison to how the EU has negatively impacted Poland (property prices, consumer goods, perishables, technology, medicine... literally everything has skyrocketed in terms of prices, while our wages stay as low as they have been for years, not to mention how unemployment has risen due to modernization of agriculture and industry, forcing them out to other countries to scrub toilets when they should be used in factories or on farms).
Nothing different awaits Serbia or Albania, sorry to say, you are talking to someone who has experience.
"… Call me a Euroseptic… benefits are cosmetic in comparison to … negatively impacted Poland … everything has skyrocketed in terms of prices, while our wages stay as low as they have been for years,… "
Yes, many people still think that EU membership is guarantied prosperity for everyone, but it isn't. EU changed a lot last years and most of the changes were against the interests of the common citizens. Only big companies and political elite's of couple of big countries profited, while ordinary people actually went backwards. (Mind you, I'm talking about old, rich, members, let alone new poor ones).
I agree. Sent the thiefs back and we'll send the mafiosi back and then let's put toghether the italian politicians and the romanian politicians and find for them a place on some deserted island so we all can get to work for ourselves.
Auguri!
This article and some of the posts give the best reasons why Serbia should never join the eu even with Kosovo. Serbia would always be snubbed by most of the other members. The only thing Serbia needs is disciple and faith in itself. Serbia can deal with the eu on a strictly business relationship and only sign trade deals that give Serbia huge benefits. In other words, Serbia has to learn how to act like the us.
"Poland in EU is a different story form what Poland was until recently."
I agree with you Olf, some good has come to Poland indeed since joining the EU (roads, infrastructure and new work opportunities), I am not disputing that, though there are also bad things that have come (prices, unemployment and declining social welfare).
Stevan makes a good point by saying that while some have benefited from the EU, many have lost. Social polarization exists more and more.
"Now you are open to a huge competition. In this game not only the fittest that survives but the ones that are most flexible and adaptable to changes. "
You are right Olf, but the thing is it's not much competition when you have developed countries with fully implemented privatization such as Germany, France and the Netherlands compared to developing countries that have barely started to decentralize such as Poland, Slovakia and Lithuania. This is why I say that Eastern Europe should have waited and not pushed.
"I know of price increase in Poland but they have increases due to a larger market."
Indeed, here comes to biggst problem: wages have not increased, apart from here in Warsaw, most of Poland (like from the town where my fiancee comes from), is left with old and sick people, all the youth is gone (some for good even).
"Unemployment in agriculture should be seen as a challenge for all the farmers to join forces and focus in one niche in order to have a competitive price for their goods, otherwise you can import them for a cheaper price."
Once again, you are right with what you say, but once again, Poland was not ready. Since the times of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Poland was the greatest producer of agriculture in Europe, countless nations have fought for our fertile soil, easy terrain and favorable climate, but now Poland is stuck in the old mentality, while you have countries with such modern agriculture like Netherlands producing more food than us even, when we have the capacity to be by far the biggest agricultural power in Europe (apart from Ukraine). Why? We joined too early without solving the problem first, which was, is and will be a problem for a long time.
"Kosova has no choice but to join EU once the opportunity comes around, Kosova is in Europe like it or not."
Switzerland, Iceland and Norway took a different choice, and they are the richest European states. Naturally if the occasion does indeed come around for Kosovo, they would be wise to take it, only at the right time, because these time frames that KS Albanians suggest would leave the country empty and saturated with Western firms. This is my point all along.
“… agriculture in Europe… Poland … old mentality, … countries with… modern agriculture like Netherlands producing more food than us even, when we have the capacity to be by far the biggest agricultural power in Europe … “
Unfortunately, it isn’t just a problem of efficiency and modern technology. This is a political question, too. Despite all talks about free, open markets and fair competition, EU agriculture of certain members is heavily subsidized and protected. Only very limited concurrence is allowed. Even if you modernize and rise production dramatically, you would still face difficulties to achieve free access to EU markets without any restrictions.
To All who worry about Albanians! Kosova and Albania have energy sources(oil and coal) 10 times of all ballkan states combined. Go in Albania now and beleive your eyes what is happening there!
Peter, where do you live? Some figures to prove your comments false from A to Z:
Growtht of ecomomy in Poland 60,5%(2007) - in construction sector it was 17%! (boosted by massive investments in infrastructure, co-financed by the EU) with massive growth of income (more than 10% a year!) in this sector (which is the primary reason for increasing of prices in your country in combination with consumer-rush producing a negative trading bilance); unemployment was reduced permanently since 2004 and will fall under less than 10% in 2008. Direct investions from Non-Poland companies in your country in 2007: more than 15 Billion Euros ...
If people in Serbia SHOULD be really your friends, PETER (?) , why are'nt you honestly telling them the truth?
It is right to say: the first period of transition was difficult for all people living in states which were part of former USSR-system. After 40 years of mismanagment which caused massive structural problems you may not expect to solve all your problems by signing papers. But your country started - and every time when I pass through, I see, how rapidely things change - even in the east and sout-east of your country. I saw the same changes before in Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary with my own eyes - and I am very happy for the people living there. They fight for welfare and for the future of their children. I really adore them - as well as my friends in Serbia, which are looking for European integration, because they already realised, where they live. Do the same, Peter :)
I am glad you have shown your concern over the inabilities for Serbian citizens to travel, but before you comment on a diverse state such as Serbia; please do not forget recent history in your own nation where thousands of "Yugoslavs" of many ethnic backgrounds could not become citizens nor travel anywhere outside the borders of Slovenia. Hmm...sounds you have some work to do in the so called "western balkans."
I am not surprised at Mr. Rupel's proposal. Recently Slovenian ambassador to Kosovo said while shaking hands with Hashim Thaci that 'Slovenia has been working on that (Kosovo independence) for 20 years already'!
Our 'friends' from Slovenia are still on a mission since the job has not been done yet.
Vera
I know that the numbers are impressive, but the reality on the ground isn't quite so.
I do not say that life is terrible or anything like that (I lived under martial law and lived through the economic collapse of late 80's and early 90's, so I would be an idiot to claim now is the worst time), but the best time for Poland as a free economy was the mid-90's to late 90's. Poland had an open market to everyone, we were the most popular source of investment (I do not think the EU has anything to do with this) for Western states and the prices of everything in Poland (from properties, to consumer good, from technology to services etc.) was very cheap, unlike now.
My point is that Poland was doing great since Walesa took power and it was on the right path, those were the best time for everyone. Since Poland joined the EU, investment into Poland and growth did not really change, Poland managed to maintain its performance since the mid-ninetees to now economically, but since Poland joined the EU, the only things that have changed noticeably for the average Pole is that prices of everything have rocketed through the roof, while earnings have hardly risen as much, not even a fraction.
As for the unemployment, the only reason it went down is because since the borders were opened, Poles flooded the West and the only natural consequence is that unemployment would go down.
If it were up to me, I would have prefered Poland and the other post-communist states to have joined EFTA first and got their economies up to a certain level by themselves, before joining the EU and becoming subsidaries of Germany, France, Italy and the UK, because as things stand now, post-communist states cannot possibly compete with the Western states in this open market, hence the prices and the drain of Poles from Poland.
As for me, I am staying here and not going anywhere, this is my home, I see a future, I just wonder when it will be.
Stevan
That was our biggest problem, and it still is. Since joining the EU, it will continue to be a big problem.
Either have that clause, or let Serbia enter in the end once all other nations are in. Sorry to put Serbia in the spotlight again, but it's just the way it is.
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