Slovenia recognizes Kosovo's secession

Albanians in Yugoslavia were the third largest nation.

If much smaller nations, after the breakdown of the Yugo federation, like Slovenians, Macedonians or Montenegrins could have their own state- why Albanians cannot?

Dear Slovenians it is fair enough that you care fro your economic interest, but you benefited a lot from Kosova to gain your own independence- now simply it is time to pay-back.

"If much smaller nations, after the breakdown of the Yugo federation, like Slovenians, Macedonians or Montenegrins could have their own state- why Albanians cannot? "

Because the Albanians have their own state, its called ALBANIA. The same rules applied with ethnic Hungarians in Vojvodina. The Croats, Serbs, Slovenians and Macedonians, etc. didnt have the luxury that their Albanian compatriots had so thats why under the 1974 YU Constitution they were granted republican status with the right of self determination. You can thank Comrade Josip Broz (who you lot equate to the antichrist) for that.

"Dear Slovenians it is fair enough that you care fro your economic interest, but you benefited a lot from Kosova to gain your own independence- now simply it is time to pay-back.
(ben, 5 March 2008 16:26)"

Oh Good Lord where do I start. Lets kick things off and get a few things straight here. Fact, Slovenia was a net contributor. Although they comprised 2% of the population, Slovenia contributed to a quarter of the Federal budget. Wonder where you got those welfare checks and shiny new hospitals, schools and roads from....thats right ;)

Slovenia left YU in 1991 because it grew tired of throwing its hard earned cash down a bottomless pit called Kosovo. Once the Slovene cash cow left YU, the whole thing went tits up.

So in essence Ben, Slovenia owes you lot absolutley nothing, nada, zilch, nishto.

Saying that, if Ljubljana does go ahead and recognise Pristina's UDI, its fairly safe to say that Slovene companies & businesses can practically kiss the lucrative Serbian market adios.

Big surprise there.

Lets be honest and look at this rationally, shall we.

Albanians may celebrate and praise these countries that have illegally recognized Kosovo, but when all the celebrations end, when all the dust settles, when Western news forget about Kosovo, all that will remain is another poverty stricken, backward, underdeveloped country, corrupted to the core, unable to function without foreign aid, surrounded by hostile and resenting neighbors.

On top of all that, Russia and other countries which will not recognize Kosovo will make its existence and situation all that more difficult.

Why would USA invest in Kosovo? Russia will invest in Serbia because Serbia has existing functioning government and economic system in place. Russia can make money in Serbia. No country can make money in Kosovo.

These are hard economic and political factors which cannot be hidden or denied, even by the most rookie of economists and politicians.

This is the first and good move of Slovenia the X-Republic of Yugoslavia.

Croatia Next then Montenegro, Macedonia to folow.

Thats hope this is the end of trouble in the Balkans.

Finaly Thanks Good

"Oh Good Lord where do I start. Lets kick things off and get a few things straight here. Fact, Slovenia was a net contributor. Although they comprised 2% of the population, Slovenia contributed to a quarter of the Federal budget. Wonder where you got those welfare checks and shiny new hospitals, schools and roads from....thats right ;)
(Niall O'Doherty, 5 March 2008 18:40) "

God for the first time one serb poster is right, off course, they got tired, becouse they could not invest anymore in Kosova, seing that all Kosovas wealth, was not going where it must go , but was plounderd from Serbia, to build their roads , and to pay all nonworking serbs.
Slovenija, knows the best what did Kosova go through, I just wonder, why they weren't the first to recognised ;)

Well, nothing surprising, we know very well that we can always count on our good old Slovenes and Croats to stub us in the back, whenever they can.

“…Slavic ... I wonder what Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Macedonia, Montenegro and Croatia will do…”

Peter, Croatian nationalists don’t really have a soft spot for Slavic nations. They identify themselves first and foremost as a Catholics and feel sympathies with a Germans, not Slavs. Some of their “historians” even invented strange theory that Croats are not Slavic at all but some Aryan tribe from Iran. Croatia will enthusiastically support anything that weakness Serbs.

FRYM has a gun pointed at their had, they have to follow everything what Empire says, otherwise, their friendly Albanian minority might start shooting again…

Montenegro is more difficult case. On one side Milo, government and sizable Muslim, Albanian and Croat minority, on other side very big part of traditional Montenegro who sees themselves as biggest Serbs of all… Milo walks on the thin line …

Bulgaria, on one side worries about Turkish minority on other side Washington and Brussels, who knows…

Czech Republic – I expect that Government will succumb to US and EU pressure, despite public opinion.

“… Serbs would never let us anywhere near the oil privatizations, telecommunications or other strategic industries,….”

Of course not, we can’t give strategic assets to proven enemies. There is nothing what Slovenia produces that we can’t find cheaper and better elsewhere.

“…under the constitution of the former Yugoslavia, Kosovo has rights like other republics.”
Croatian President Stipe Mesic “

Really? Yet another, how should I put it, twisting of the truth from dear old Stipe, life long Croatian nationalist and Serb hater. No. Kosovo did not have same rights as Republics. If it did, why Albanian demonstrations in the 80’s concentrated completely around request to give Kosovo i Metohija status of the Republic?

“…hope this is the end of trouble in the Balkans…”
Allan-UK

No, it isn’t, it is just another chapter. Victims will keep memories of injustice alive and wait for their moment …

ben

Montenegro, Slovenia and Macedonia were all states or republics within Yugoslavia. Kosovo was a province of Serbia. That's the big difference and why the world is against Kosovo independence.

As an example, Scotland gaining independence from the UK is different to Cornwall gaining independence from England. It opens a can of worms!

FYI

Island has recognized Kosova today also.

It would seem that "invoking the hatred of the Albanians" is the lesser evil for Slovenia than invoking the hatred of the Serbs. So be it. I never liked those quasi-Austrians anyway. They have made their bed, now they can lie in it. They're no loss.

“I know there are countries that oppose Kosovo’s independence. But Kosovo is different, for example, from former Soviet republics,under the constitution of the former Yugoslavia, Kosovo has rights like other republics.”
Croatian President Stipe Mesic
Tokyo 5 march 07

Croatia should recognise Kosovo by mid March.

Oh Good Lord where do I start. Lets kick things off and get a few things straight here. Fact, Slovenia was a net contributor. Although they comprised 2% of the population, Slovenia contributed to a quarter of the Federal budget. Wonder where you got those welfare checks and shiny new hospitals, schools and roads from....thats right ;)
(Niall O'Doherty, 5 March 2008 18:40) "

It's no use, many of the posters on here ignore history and instead focusing on nationalism and false propoganda which started with Josip Tito seizing power in 1945-46 thanks again to the inept politics of Winston Churchill who was quoted the following and I paraphrase:

"Only one man in my life fooled me and that was Josip Broz Tito"

Yugoslavia was an idea created by both Serbian, Croatian and Slovene intellectuals, one of the most influential was Strossmayer of Croatia. As Yugoslavia was created from the remntants of the Austro-Hungarian empire after WWI by the western powers , so it was dismantled in the 1990's by those same powers.

Yugoslavia was one nation, union of the south slavs which was only seperated by religion.

It was named the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes which later became Yugoslavia.

It was not the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Bosnian Serbs, Bosnian Croats, Bosniaks, Bosnian Muslims, Roma's, Albanians, Hungarians, Montenegrins, FYROM (Macedonia is in Greece!) Bulgarian, Romanians and alike. The Yugoslav constitution was based on those three nations.

TITO complicated matters by creating false religions and nations in the hopes of expanding into Bulgaria , Albania and Northern Greece.

"ben

Montenegro, Slovenia and Macedonia were all states or republics within Yugoslavia. Kosovo was a province of Serbia. That's the big difference and why the world is against Kosovo independence.

As an example, Scotland gaining independence from the UK is different to Cornwall gaining independence from England. It opens a can of worms!"
(ZK UK, 5 March 2008 20:39)


For info:

-Until the destruction of the old federal Yugoslavia by Milosevic, Kosovo had a dual status. It was called a part of Serbia; but it was also called a unit of the federation. In all practical ways, the latter sense prevailed: Kosovo had its own parliament and government, and was directly represented at the federal level, alongside Serbia. It was, in fact, one of the eight units of the federal system.

Almost all the other units have now become independent states. Historically, the independence of Kosovo just completes that process.

Bingo, Thanks!!

Now on following sentence:

"And, even if Slovenia promised not to recognize Kosovo, the Serbs would never let us anywhere near the oil privatizations, telecommunications or other strategic industries,” argues Finance."

What's interesting to read here is the fact that one can speculate that this is also a result of Serb government's big mouth.
There were threats to boycott the foreign products and in particular those slovenian ones. Calls were made to kick out Mercator's establishments shut down slovenian banks etc. etc.

I don't think that it would have changed the decision but I wonder, if Serbian government had approached Slovenia with the nice "brother in need", attitude instead of arrogant bulling, things might have been slightly different. Instead Kostunica's rhetorics keep alienating everyone.

At least that what this sentence implies to me.

Thank you Slovenia!

EA

Forget about history for a moment as we can all argue until we are blue in the face!

What the Albanians are asking is to redraw borders based on the will of the people.

OK, so if that's accepted in Kosovo then the Serbs should get parts of Croatia, over half of BiH, parts of Montenegro and Macedonia. Croatia will lose some terriroty but gain some in BiH. The Kurds should gain parts of Iraq, Iran, Turkey and Syria. South Ossetia and Abkhazia should gain independence. What about Nagorno-Karabakh and the numerous other parts of the world?

Not matter how much you attempt to portray Kosovo as a unique case, other independence movements will simply not buy it! The can of worms is just about to open. Those countries I've just mentioned are following Kosovo's precedent!

Check these
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL04930529
http://www.reuters.com/article/asiaCrisis/idUSL05465712
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN05631761
http://www.pr-inside.com/us-warns-bosnian-leaders-not-to-r469722.htm
http://www.kurdishaspect.com/doc022108RR.html

And many many more to come! This has only just started.

ZK UK,

It is not as simple as you say about Kosova. You have to look into the history of the problem.
Let me help you out.

Should Kosova have been a republic since Yugoslavia was created?
Had Kosova the the third largest population in former Yugoslavia after Serbs and Croats?
Why large parts of Republic of Macedonia is populated by Albanians bordering Kosova?
Let talk about repression on Kosovar Albanians during the history of Yugoslavia...

You can make a comparison to Scotland but they was no war in Scotland in the modern times.

If there was no war in Kosova, it would have been still under Serbia sovereignity.

What happened to their autonomous status?
.....

So simplyfying the issue is misleading the public. Lets face the TRUTH.

The Slovenians are making it sound like that for them to stop investing in Serbia is a bad thing for the Serbs...me thinks its vice versa and is why it took them this long to declare recognition.

besa

Kosovo is a province of Serbia, not a republic. Serbia offered Kosovo more than autonomy but less than independence. The puppet masters said "No" even though it would be greater than what it ever had or would ever have!

From what I can gather, the Albanians are happy with it being nothing more than a NATO protectorate being babysat by the EU. The K-Serbs will just remain loyal to Serbia. The status quo remains.

the Slovenian government had been "led by the right of nations to self-determination that Slovenia herself had rested on during her own independence process" -
I would add as any other nation Serbia and Russia too

“extremists that devastated the Slovenian embassy in Belgrade could not dictate Slovenian foreign policy.”-

This means: Kostunica stop fooling yourself and teh Serbian peaople

(Niall O'Doherty, 5 March 2008 18:40)
“The Croats, Serbs, Slovenians and Macedonians, etc. didnt have the luxury that their Albanian compatriots had so thats why under the 1974 YU Constitution they were granted republican status with the right of self determination.”

The revisionism implicit in the above statement is truly of staggering proportions.
Shredding the 1974 Constitution began a process still playing itself out in the territory of former Yugoslavia, most recently Kosovo (formerly the Autonomous Socialist Province of Kosovo).
The contempt for the spirit and letter of that pragmatic constitutional arrangement is still blatantly obvious in some quarters and continues to inform attitudes that are trenchantly irredentist and bellicose.

Interesting, the second Slavic state to do so.

(Peter Sudyka, 6 March 2008 09:05)

Peter, why does this have to be a Slavic or a non Slavic thing.
You started to sound a bit like the pro-Serbian camp when they always tend to refer to Kosovo Albanians as Muslim terrorists, jihad, drug dealers etc.

Peter, Serbs attacked Slovenia.
Peter, Serbs attacked Croatia.
Peter, Serbs attacked Bosnia.
Do you believe that they actually thought that they are attacking and killing Slavs?
Do you believe that Russians cared about the Slavic cause when they killed Polish?
If Polish know the reality of Kosova I can guaranty that they would support the independence 100%.
Peter, the only Slavic state that will stand with Serbia will be some of the SSSR (USSR) states.
Good luck to Serbia with them.
They can have them.

Well this surprise some of you who think I'm too moderate but I will not be shopping at Mercator for the time being.

I feel no need to firebomb the Slovenian embassy. Nor was I one of the thousands of mindless idiots who queued up outside Mercator when it opened in Belgrade post 2000 - many of whom I'm sure today are using harsh language against Slovenians, but buying their goods anyway.

Go about your life in a dignified way, without hysterics, and make rational decisions. Simple really.

"led by the right of nations to self-determination that Slovenia herself had rested on during her own independence process"

That is a good argument for the nations of Yugoslavia that wanted indepencence that did not have their own country. Of course this doesn't apply to the Albanians of Kosovo as Albania is there.

"although Serbia is a more important economic partner for Slovenia, that is still not a reason not to recognize Kosovo".
“What would happen if Slovenia chose not to recognize Kosovo? Apart from a day of Serb nationalist euphoria and promises of the most wonderful jobs, hardly anything. At the same time we would invoke the hatred of the Albanians… And, even if Slovenia promised not to recognize Kosovo, the Serbs would never let us anywhere near the oil privatizations, telecommunications or other strategic industries,” argues Finance.

I find it interesting that Finance contradicts its own argument here in saying that Serbia is a more important economic partner, but they won't let Slovenia near any of the strategic industries. Well how would they know that for sure?

"when Western news forget about Kosovo, all that will remain is another poverty stricken, backward, underdeveloped country, corrupted to the core, unable to function without foreign aid, surrounded by hostile and resenting neighbors. "

You just described Serbia. Who killed Djindic?

Thank you,
Slovenia!

#15
That should be "greater evil".
Oops.

Stevan

"Peter, Croatian nationalists don’t really have a soft spot for Slavic nations. They identify themselves first and foremost as a Catholics and feel sympathies with a Germans, not Slavs. Some of their “historians” even invented strange theory that Croats are not Slavic at all but some Aryan tribe from Iran. Croatia will enthusiastically support anything that weakness Serbs. "

I read about the Ustashe ideologies, very confused people, Croats and Serbs differ essentially only when it comes to religion, but they claimed some pseudo-Gothic/pseudo-Iranian origin?

"Czech Republic – I expect that Government will succumb to US and EU pressure, despite public opinion. "

Poland was the same story, we had massive pressure from Germany, the UK and the US to recognize Kosovo, even the government admitted this, public opinion is mixed in Poland, but I get the feeling that more are in favor of Serbia's argument.

thank you Slovenia
you been allways the smartest people in yu.and now you demonstrated one more time your democratic way of thinking.
god bless slovenians forver

Interesting, the second Slavic state to do so. I wonder what Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Macedonia, Montenegro and Croatia will do regarding this recognition, do it fast or wait until for the EU majority.

may i add to the chorus of "Thank-you's" to slovenia. cheers to you and all other supporters of freedom and democracy. yes, of course, you have your own "business" agenda; why not? with all of the squabbling, slovenia seems to be (gasp) trying to live a good life and being prosperous, and moving on past ethnic enmity. in this forum that is something like heresy, but in much of the (civilized) world that would be viewed as normal and progressive.

as for you individuals, shop or don't shop at the mall, what-ever! i happen to like the one in sarajevo, a lot! i still prefer the small shop-owners and farmer's market (you guys remember, the markele market place that was targeted twice but oh, let's not bring up those painful old memories...), but for lots of goods i cannot find them except at the slovenian mall. we love to spend time there, eating, chitty chatting and meeting folks, and i hope everyone of a like mind continues to FREQUENT the slovenian-owned malls.

and let me add just this: it seems when this site doesn't function as a public hate-fest, it reminds me awfully of the bad old days and those dreary!! incessant arguments over marxism -- who was right, who was orthodox, who was irredentist?! (I still cannot get my mind around that word; is that a part of OUR vocabulary?) and when which constitution said what. yes history is important and its honest rendering vital! but that is not what is happening, they are just little nuggets, out of context, to justify arguments. i do not need to harken back to 1974 or 1944 for that matter.

god bless freedom and independence.

roberto from san francisco

Stevan said: "There is nothing what Slovenia produces that we can’t find cheaper and better elsewhere"

Where is "elsewhere"?
What happens when "Elsewhere" very soon recognizes independent Kosova too, what do you(Serbia) do then?

there is no reason for albanians to be ruled by others - they are human like others and NO they did not come from somewhere else and invade kosova. They were there before serbs as it can be seen by their presence in macedonia and montenegro.

violence that serbs caused on albanians in kosova should be a lesson for other countries that treat people like that ... no one wants to get beat up and killed and live in the same house. in america if you do that to your baby they take your baby away ... that is what happened to serbia.

also - kurds should have their own country - 20million people and no country - those people were there forever and deserve to live in their own country to be respected.

Cheers Slovenia. This is greatest contribution to Balkan stability since 1991. We expect Croatia to the same very soon, in order for peace and prosperity prevail in Balkans.

Actually 'johny',

My description fits Albania better than it fits any other country in the Balkans and near region.

Soon to be rivaled by Kosovo, of course.

Who's Slovenia?

Blero

You go to far with comparing me with the Serb Camp, I was just making an observation. Of all the countries in Europe that have recognized Kosovo, only two of them are Slavic. I am not a Slavic nationalist or anything like that, I feel a lot in common with the rest of the Slavic family, but that has nothing to do with my post here.

Yes, the Russian and Polish love-hate relationship. Indeed nothing Panslavic about it. Pity, I feel that if Russia had shown some tolerance towards us and not tried to Russify and dominate us, our relationship would be so much better today, though I have nothing against Russians, have many friends.

For ZK UK

"World is against Kosova Independence" yeah we can see that, less than a month and there are about 30 countries who recognized Kosova,some of the most democratic countries in the world. Wait and see a month from now when Arab league will do their part. You keep talking about the past and giving reasons how the history wasn't fair with you. Kosova will do well without you, at least people there are happy and have enough to eat. You better start worring about other things that may happened in the future with Serbia. You didn't play fair thats why you lost the game, and now it's time to accept it.

Roberto (#28),

Was the decision of Slovenia to recognize Kosovo really an act of free will, or were the Slovenes pressured by the USA? Keep on believing in freedom; most philosophers will tell you that it is just an illusion.

Beck,

"… Where is "elsewhere"? What happens when "Elsewhere" very soon recognizes independent Kosova too, what do you(Serbia) do then?…"

Trade with a rest of the world. For industrial products China, Japan, Korea, raw materials our friends in the third world, gas, oil, sophisticated military equipment e.c.t. Russia.

Also any one else interested in a fair trade for mutual benefit.

My polish friend suggested why Kosova doesn't join Albania?

hahaha...don't need to wonder my self anymore.

Where is Georgia and Azerbejan anyways?

My god!
What has the world come to when an area with a population of 2 million people qualifies as a country. Two million people should never qualify as a NATIONALITY. Most cities in the World have a larger population than Slovenia. How can a Country with 2 million people dictate policy to a Country with 10 million people. Please refresh my memory and tell me where the Slovenians came from.

Albanians in Yugoslavia were the third largest nation.

If much smaller nations, after the breakdown of the Yugo federation, like Slovenians, Macedonians or Montenegrins could have their own state- why Albanians cannot?

Dear Slovenians it is fair enough that you care fro your economic interest, but you benefited a lot from Kosova to gain your own independence- now simply it is time to pay-back.

"Oh Good Lord where do I start. Lets kick things off and get a few things straight here. Fact, Slovenia was a net contributor. Although they comprised 2% of the population, Slovenia contributed to a quarter of the Federal budget. Wonder where you got those welfare checks and shiny new hospitals, schools and roads from....thats right ;)
(Niall O'Doherty, 5 March 2008 18:40) "

God for the first time one serb poster is right, off course, they got tired, becouse they could not invest anymore in Kosova, seing that all Kosovas wealth, was not going where it must go , but was plounderd from Serbia, to build their roads , and to pay all nonworking serbs.
Slovenija, knows the best what did Kosova go through, I just wonder, why they weren't the first to recognised ;)

This is the first and good move of Slovenia the X-Republic of Yugoslavia.

Croatia Next then Montenegro, Macedonia to folow.

Thats hope this is the end of trouble in the Balkans.

Finaly Thanks Good

ben

Montenegro, Slovenia and Macedonia were all states or republics within Yugoslavia. Kosovo was a province of Serbia. That's the big difference and why the world is against Kosovo independence.

As an example, Scotland gaining independence from the UK is different to Cornwall gaining independence from England. It opens a can of worms!

"If much smaller nations, after the breakdown of the Yugo federation, like Slovenians, Macedonians or Montenegrins could have their own state- why Albanians cannot? "

Because the Albanians have their own state, its called ALBANIA. The same rules applied with ethnic Hungarians in Vojvodina. The Croats, Serbs, Slovenians and Macedonians, etc. didnt have the luxury that their Albanian compatriots had so thats why under the 1974 YU Constitution they were granted republican status with the right of self determination. You can thank Comrade Josip Broz (who you lot equate to the antichrist) for that.

"Dear Slovenians it is fair enough that you care fro your economic interest, but you benefited a lot from Kosova to gain your own independence- now simply it is time to pay-back.
(ben, 5 March 2008 16:26)"

Oh Good Lord where do I start. Lets kick things off and get a few things straight here. Fact, Slovenia was a net contributor. Although they comprised 2% of the population, Slovenia contributed to a quarter of the Federal budget. Wonder where you got those welfare checks and shiny new hospitals, schools and roads from....thats right ;)

Slovenia left YU in 1991 because it grew tired of throwing its hard earned cash down a bottomless pit called Kosovo. Once the Slovene cash cow left YU, the whole thing went tits up.

So in essence Ben, Slovenia owes you lot absolutley nothing, nada, zilch, nishto.

Saying that, if Ljubljana does go ahead and recognise Pristina's UDI, its fairly safe to say that Slovene companies & businesses can practically kiss the lucrative Serbian market adios.

Bingo, Thanks!!

Now on following sentence:

"And, even if Slovenia promised not to recognize Kosovo, the Serbs would never let us anywhere near the oil privatizations, telecommunications or other strategic industries,” argues Finance."

What's interesting to read here is the fact that one can speculate that this is also a result of Serb government's big mouth.
There were threats to boycott the foreign products and in particular those slovenian ones. Calls were made to kick out Mercator's establishments shut down slovenian banks etc. etc.

I don't think that it would have changed the decision but I wonder, if Serbian government had approached Slovenia with the nice "brother in need", attitude instead of arrogant bulling, things might have been slightly different. Instead Kostunica's rhetorics keep alienating everyone.

At least that what this sentence implies to me.

“I know there are countries that oppose Kosovo’s independence. But Kosovo is different, for example, from former Soviet republics,under the constitution of the former Yugoslavia, Kosovo has rights like other republics.”
Croatian President Stipe Mesic
Tokyo 5 march 07

Croatia should recognise Kosovo by mid March.

ZK UK,

It is not as simple as you say about Kosova. You have to look into the history of the problem.
Let me help you out.

Should Kosova have been a republic since Yugoslavia was created?
Had Kosova the the third largest population in former Yugoslavia after Serbs and Croats?
Why large parts of Republic of Macedonia is populated by Albanians bordering Kosova?
Let talk about repression on Kosovar Albanians during the history of Yugoslavia...

You can make a comparison to Scotland but they was no war in Scotland in the modern times.

If there was no war in Kosova, it would have been still under Serbia sovereignity.

What happened to their autonomous status?
.....

So simplyfying the issue is misleading the public. Lets face the TRUTH.

Thank you Slovenia!

It would seem that "invoking the hatred of the Albanians" is the lesser evil for Slovenia than invoking the hatred of the Serbs. So be it. I never liked those quasi-Austrians anyway. They have made their bed, now they can lie in it. They're no loss.

EA

Forget about history for a moment as we can all argue until we are blue in the face!

What the Albanians are asking is to redraw borders based on the will of the people.

OK, so if that's accepted in Kosovo then the Serbs should get parts of Croatia, over half of BiH, parts of Montenegro and Macedonia. Croatia will lose some terriroty but gain some in BiH. The Kurds should gain parts of Iraq, Iran, Turkey and Syria. South Ossetia and Abkhazia should gain independence. What about Nagorno-Karabakh and the numerous other parts of the world?

Not matter how much you attempt to portray Kosovo as a unique case, other independence movements will simply not buy it! The can of worms is just about to open. Those countries I've just mentioned are following Kosovo's precedent!

Check these
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL04930529
http://www.reuters.com/article/asiaCrisis/idUSL05465712
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN05631761
http://www.pr-inside.com/us-warns-bosnian-leaders-not-to-r469722.htm
http://www.kurdishaspect.com/doc022108RR.html

And many many more to come! This has only just started.

Oh Good Lord where do I start. Lets kick things off and get a few things straight here. Fact, Slovenia was a net contributor. Although they comprised 2% of the population, Slovenia contributed to a quarter of the Federal budget. Wonder where you got those welfare checks and shiny new hospitals, schools and roads from....thats right ;)
(Niall O'Doherty, 5 March 2008 18:40) "

It's no use, many of the posters on here ignore history and instead focusing on nationalism and false propoganda which started with Josip Tito seizing power in 1945-46 thanks again to the inept politics of Winston Churchill who was quoted the following and I paraphrase:

"Only one man in my life fooled me and that was Josip Broz Tito"

Yugoslavia was an idea created by both Serbian, Croatian and Slovene intellectuals, one of the most influential was Strossmayer of Croatia. As Yugoslavia was created from the remntants of the Austro-Hungarian empire after WWI by the western powers , so it was dismantled in the 1990's by those same powers.

Yugoslavia was one nation, union of the south slavs which was only seperated by religion.

It was named the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes which later became Yugoslavia.

It was not the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Bosnian Serbs, Bosnian Croats, Bosniaks, Bosnian Muslims, Roma's, Albanians, Hungarians, Montenegrins, FYROM (Macedonia is in Greece!) Bulgarian, Romanians and alike. The Yugoslav constitution was based on those three nations.

TITO complicated matters by creating false religions and nations in the hopes of expanding into Bulgaria , Albania and Northern Greece.

Big surprise there.

Lets be honest and look at this rationally, shall we.

Albanians may celebrate and praise these countries that have illegally recognized Kosovo, but when all the celebrations end, when all the dust settles, when Western news forget about Kosovo, all that will remain is another poverty stricken, backward, underdeveloped country, corrupted to the core, unable to function without foreign aid, surrounded by hostile and resenting neighbors.

On top of all that, Russia and other countries which will not recognize Kosovo will make its existence and situation all that more difficult.

Why would USA invest in Kosovo? Russia will invest in Serbia because Serbia has existing functioning government and economic system in place. Russia can make money in Serbia. No country can make money in Kosovo.

These are hard economic and political factors which cannot be hidden or denied, even by the most rookie of economists and politicians.

besa

Kosovo is a province of Serbia, not a republic. Serbia offered Kosovo more than autonomy but less than independence. The puppet masters said "No" even though it would be greater than what it ever had or would ever have!

From what I can gather, the Albanians are happy with it being nothing more than a NATO protectorate being babysat by the EU. The K-Serbs will just remain loyal to Serbia. The status quo remains.

Cheers Slovenia. This is greatest contribution to Balkan stability since 1991. We expect Croatia to the same very soon, in order for peace and prosperity prevail in Balkans.

thank you Slovenia
you been allways the smartest people in yu.and now you demonstrated one more time your democratic way of thinking.
god bless slovenians forver

the Slovenian government had been "led by the right of nations to self-determination that Slovenia herself had rested on during her own independence process" -
I would add as any other nation Serbia and Russia too

“extremists that devastated the Slovenian embassy in Belgrade could not dictate Slovenian foreign policy.”-

This means: Kostunica stop fooling yourself and teh Serbian peaople

FYI

Island has recognized Kosova today also.

Well, nothing surprising, we know very well that we can always count on our good old Slovenes and Croats to stub us in the back, whenever they can.

“…Slavic ... I wonder what Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Macedonia, Montenegro and Croatia will do…”

Peter, Croatian nationalists don’t really have a soft spot for Slavic nations. They identify themselves first and foremost as a Catholics and feel sympathies with a Germans, not Slavs. Some of their “historians” even invented strange theory that Croats are not Slavic at all but some Aryan tribe from Iran. Croatia will enthusiastically support anything that weakness Serbs.

FRYM has a gun pointed at their had, they have to follow everything what Empire says, otherwise, their friendly Albanian minority might start shooting again…

Montenegro is more difficult case. On one side Milo, government and sizable Muslim, Albanian and Croat minority, on other side very big part of traditional Montenegro who sees themselves as biggest Serbs of all… Milo walks on the thin line …

Bulgaria, on one side worries about Turkish minority on other side Washington and Brussels, who knows…

Czech Republic – I expect that Government will succumb to US and EU pressure, despite public opinion.

“… Serbs would never let us anywhere near the oil privatizations, telecommunications or other strategic industries,….”

Of course not, we can’t give strategic assets to proven enemies. There is nothing what Slovenia produces that we can’t find cheaper and better elsewhere.

“…under the constitution of the former Yugoslavia, Kosovo has rights like other republics.”
Croatian President Stipe Mesic “

Really? Yet another, how should I put it, twisting of the truth from dear old Stipe, life long Croatian nationalist and Serb hater. No. Kosovo did not have same rights as Republics. If it did, why Albanian demonstrations in the 80’s concentrated completely around request to give Kosovo i Metohija status of the Republic?

“…hope this is the end of trouble in the Balkans…”
Allan-UK

No, it isn’t, it is just another chapter. Victims will keep memories of injustice alive and wait for their moment …

"ben

Montenegro, Slovenia and Macedonia were all states or republics within Yugoslavia. Kosovo was a province of Serbia. That's the big difference and why the world is against Kosovo independence.

As an example, Scotland gaining independence from the UK is different to Cornwall gaining independence from England. It opens a can of worms!"
(ZK UK, 5 March 2008 20:39)


For info:

-Until the destruction of the old federal Yugoslavia by Milosevic, Kosovo had a dual status. It was called a part of Serbia; but it was also called a unit of the federation. In all practical ways, the latter sense prevailed: Kosovo had its own parliament and government, and was directly represented at the federal level, alongside Serbia. It was, in fact, one of the eight units of the federal system.

Almost all the other units have now become independent states. Historically, the independence of Kosovo just completes that process.

#15
That should be "greater evil".
Oops.

"when Western news forget about Kosovo, all that will remain is another poverty stricken, backward, underdeveloped country, corrupted to the core, unable to function without foreign aid, surrounded by hostile and resenting neighbors. "

You just described Serbia. Who killed Djindic?

there is no reason for albanians to be ruled by others - they are human like others and NO they did not come from somewhere else and invade kosova. They were there before serbs as it can be seen by their presence in macedonia and montenegro.

violence that serbs caused on albanians in kosova should be a lesson for other countries that treat people like that ... no one wants to get beat up and killed and live in the same house. in america if you do that to your baby they take your baby away ... that is what happened to serbia.

also - kurds should have their own country - 20million people and no country - those people were there forever and deserve to live in their own country to be respected.

Who's Slovenia?

Stevan said: "There is nothing what Slovenia produces that we can’t find cheaper and better elsewhere"

Where is "elsewhere"?
What happens when "Elsewhere" very soon recognizes independent Kosova too, what do you(Serbia) do then?

Actually 'johny',

My description fits Albania better than it fits any other country in the Balkans and near region.

Soon to be rivaled by Kosovo, of course.

Thank you,
Slovenia!

Interesting, the second Slavic state to do so.

(Peter Sudyka, 6 March 2008 09:05)

Peter, why does this have to be a Slavic or a non Slavic thing.
You started to sound a bit like the pro-Serbian camp when they always tend to refer to Kosovo Albanians as Muslim terrorists, jihad, drug dealers etc.

Peter, Serbs attacked Slovenia.
Peter, Serbs attacked Croatia.
Peter, Serbs attacked Bosnia.
Do you believe that they actually thought that they are attacking and killing Slavs?
Do you believe that Russians cared about the Slavic cause when they killed Polish?
If Polish know the reality of Kosova I can guaranty that they would support the independence 100%.
Peter, the only Slavic state that will stand with Serbia will be some of the SSSR (USSR) states.
Good luck to Serbia with them.
They can have them.

My god!
What has the world come to when an area with a population of 2 million people qualifies as a country. Two million people should never qualify as a NATIONALITY. Most cities in the World have a larger population than Slovenia. How can a Country with 2 million people dictate policy to a Country with 10 million people. Please refresh my memory and tell me where the Slovenians came from.

Interesting, the second Slavic state to do so. I wonder what Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Macedonia, Montenegro and Croatia will do regarding this recognition, do it fast or wait until for the EU majority.

The Slovenians are making it sound like that for them to stop investing in Serbia is a bad thing for the Serbs...me thinks its vice versa and is why it took them this long to declare recognition.

"led by the right of nations to self-determination that Slovenia herself had rested on during her own independence process"

That is a good argument for the nations of Yugoslavia that wanted indepencence that did not have their own country. Of course this doesn't apply to the Albanians of Kosovo as Albania is there.

"although Serbia is a more important economic partner for Slovenia, that is still not a reason not to recognize Kosovo".
“What would happen if Slovenia chose not to recognize Kosovo? Apart from a day of Serb nationalist euphoria and promises of the most wonderful jobs, hardly anything. At the same time we would invoke the hatred of the Albanians… And, even if Slovenia promised not to recognize Kosovo, the Serbs would never let us anywhere near the oil privatizations, telecommunications or other strategic industries,” argues Finance.

I find it interesting that Finance contradicts its own argument here in saying that Serbia is a more important economic partner, but they won't let Slovenia near any of the strategic industries. Well how would they know that for sure?

may i add to the chorus of "Thank-you's" to slovenia. cheers to you and all other supporters of freedom and democracy. yes, of course, you have your own "business" agenda; why not? with all of the squabbling, slovenia seems to be (gasp) trying to live a good life and being prosperous, and moving on past ethnic enmity. in this forum that is something like heresy, but in much of the (civilized) world that would be viewed as normal and progressive.

as for you individuals, shop or don't shop at the mall, what-ever! i happen to like the one in sarajevo, a lot! i still prefer the small shop-owners and farmer's market (you guys remember, the markele market place that was targeted twice but oh, let's not bring up those painful old memories...), but for lots of goods i cannot find them except at the slovenian mall. we love to spend time there, eating, chitty chatting and meeting folks, and i hope everyone of a like mind continues to FREQUENT the slovenian-owned malls.

and let me add just this: it seems when this site doesn't function as a public hate-fest, it reminds me awfully of the bad old days and those dreary!! incessant arguments over marxism -- who was right, who was orthodox, who was irredentist?! (I still cannot get my mind around that word; is that a part of OUR vocabulary?) and when which constitution said what. yes history is important and its honest rendering vital! but that is not what is happening, they are just little nuggets, out of context, to justify arguments. i do not need to harken back to 1974 or 1944 for that matter.

god bless freedom and independence.

roberto from san francisco

Blero

You go to far with comparing me with the Serb Camp, I was just making an observation. Of all the countries in Europe that have recognized Kosovo, only two of them are Slavic. I am not a Slavic nationalist or anything like that, I feel a lot in common with the rest of the Slavic family, but that has nothing to do with my post here.

Yes, the Russian and Polish love-hate relationship. Indeed nothing Panslavic about it. Pity, I feel that if Russia had shown some tolerance towards us and not tried to Russify and dominate us, our relationship would be so much better today, though I have nothing against Russians, have many friends.

(Niall O'Doherty, 5 March 2008 18:40)
“The Croats, Serbs, Slovenians and Macedonians, etc. didnt have the luxury that their Albanian compatriots had so thats why under the 1974 YU Constitution they were granted republican status with the right of self determination.”

The revisionism implicit in the above statement is truly of staggering proportions.
Shredding the 1974 Constitution began a process still playing itself out in the territory of former Yugoslavia, most recently Kosovo (formerly the Autonomous Socialist Province of Kosovo).
The contempt for the spirit and letter of that pragmatic constitutional arrangement is still blatantly obvious in some quarters and continues to inform attitudes that are trenchantly irredentist and bellicose.

Well this surprise some of you who think I'm too moderate but I will not be shopping at Mercator for the time being.

I feel no need to firebomb the Slovenian embassy. Nor was I one of the thousands of mindless idiots who queued up outside Mercator when it opened in Belgrade post 2000 - many of whom I'm sure today are using harsh language against Slovenians, but buying their goods anyway.

Go about your life in a dignified way, without hysterics, and make rational decisions. Simple really.

Stevan

"Peter, Croatian nationalists don’t really have a soft spot for Slavic nations. They identify themselves first and foremost as a Catholics and feel sympathies with a Germans, not Slavs. Some of their “historians” even invented strange theory that Croats are not Slavic at all but some Aryan tribe from Iran. Croatia will enthusiastically support anything that weakness Serbs. "

I read about the Ustashe ideologies, very confused people, Croats and Serbs differ essentially only when it comes to religion, but they claimed some pseudo-Gothic/pseudo-Iranian origin?

"Czech Republic – I expect that Government will succumb to US and EU pressure, despite public opinion. "

Poland was the same story, we had massive pressure from Germany, the UK and the US to recognize Kosovo, even the government admitted this, public opinion is mixed in Poland, but I get the feeling that more are in favor of Serbia's argument.

Beck,

"… Where is "elsewhere"? What happens when "Elsewhere" very soon recognizes independent Kosova too, what do you(Serbia) do then?…"

Trade with a rest of the world. For industrial products China, Japan, Korea, raw materials our friends in the third world, gas, oil, sophisticated military equipment e.c.t. Russia.

Also any one else interested in a fair trade for mutual benefit.

Roberto (#28),

Was the decision of Slovenia to recognize Kosovo really an act of free will, or were the Slovenes pressured by the USA? Keep on believing in freedom; most philosophers will tell you that it is just an illusion.

My polish friend suggested why Kosova doesn't join Albania?

hahaha...don't need to wonder my self anymore.

Where is Georgia and Azerbejan anyways?

For ZK UK

"World is against Kosova Independence" yeah we can see that, less than a month and there are about 30 countries who recognized Kosova,some of the most democratic countries in the world. Wait and see a month from now when Arab league will do their part. You keep talking about the past and giving reasons how the history wasn't fair with you. Kosova will do well without you, at least people there are happy and have enough to eat. You better start worring about other things that may happened in the future with Serbia. You didn't play fair thats why you lost the game, and now it's time to accept it.