Sweden, Holland recognize Kosovo

I lost the count anymore... it must be the 90% of the democracies that in a less than a month recognised Kosova... what a dangerous precedent ;)
it seams only Putin and Kostunica to be the rational people in the world ;)the world has gone mad ;)

I remember people here speaking, it’s unbelievable but until this January, that we were about to be dumped ;)

Most democracies have recognized Kosova as an independent state. Serbia is still backed by Russia, China, Spain, Venezuela, Cuba etc.
If I were a progressive Serb I'd hate to see who's on my side right now, but then again I'm not one.

Dear Serbian friends,

I am sorry that my corrupt and weak government (that I did not vote for) has made the wrong decision to recognize the illegal UDI of the Serbian province of Kosovo. I cannot speak on behalf of all Dutch people, but I know that a large majority is against it. Like in Serbia we have an increasing muslim population that cannot adapt to our European culture and only stays because the Dutch government is being afraid to be labeled discriminating and so they keep giving them money. Beside some Turkey's vegetables store the muslims have not contributed to or enriched our multicultural society (except building mosques, producing criminal young males, and causing lots of controversies) unlike many other cultures. To all the Kosovo Albanians posting on this website. You people seem to be very desperate considering how overly excited you respond and how many times the postings are recommended (this can only be some planned scheme that you think you can use to demoralize the Serbian visitors). Just be aware that we will try everything possible to prevent you or Turkey to ever become a member of the EU.

There's nothing unusual coming from the recognition camp. You are at 23 now and you can expect a few more but the world is overwhelmingly supporting Serbia. There is no point listing the 160 countries who support us, be it China, Brazil, India, Russia - all emerging powers. Yes, we even welcome support from Spain, Venezuela, Cuba, all of the middle east, practically all of Africa and South America. Also, those in North America, New Zealand, practically all of Asia. I'm getting tired now so I'll just stop.

OK, granted, seems like Western Europe have some deal going with the US, but with a bit of help from Ukraine (supposedly not paying its gas bill), that part of Europe may find itself getting fairly cold soon. I wonder how many gas powered electricity stations they have? Any idea?

Congrats to the Kosovars.

Holland? I thought it was "legally" called Netherlands/

Thank you Europe!
I think Russia will change the strategy and recognize Kosovo at the end of this year.

Exactly - you are right! You guys should ask your ambassador to leave Hague, but should send there some of your co-patriots! Then you may join AU (Asian Union) with Russia, Putin & Co, and then you may decide who is reasonable, and who not in the "mad" world! Congrats! Keep going like that!

This is a dangerous "precedent". Supporting world democracy is immoral and against "international law"---but protecting IWC (international war criminals), burning embassies, is "legal, moral, and just".

Two "irrelevant" countries recognising Kosova's independence. I hope Burkina Faso will follow....)

Elton said that not all countries that haven't recognised Kosovo are against it.

Well, let me say something. Not all countries that HAVE recognised Kosovo are FOR it.

miri wrote:

Summer is coming and the cold season is ending. It's just your bad luck that it's not November.

PS: I hope this message is taken as serious as your threat to cut the gas to Europe.
--

Phew, thank god for summer! Those Germans and Italians won't mind being in the dark too much!

I do find it interesting that Russia brings up the $1.5 billion unpaid Ukraine gas bill at this very moment. Especially when the Ukraine claims it is paid!

Anyway, it's quite obvious why most of western europe is teaming up with the US. They really have no choice but to save their sorry backsides from the imminent shift of world power from the west to East.

The Eastern locomotive is full steam ahead while the Western locomotive is slowing down and could possibly reverse (very soon)!

I don't think it's co-incidence that Serbia manages to always pick the right side at crucial moments in history!

we were talking about kosovo here and some guest is worried that europe will spent some days in cold,dont worry about it,worry about serbias future because you are losing all friends,the west and eu are the world,china and rusia without wests money will starve and so will serbia if it follows them.
good luck Kosovo!

Ben

" lost the count anymore.."

- seems like you can't count passed at the most 23 countrys which have recognised this illegal secession. But that says more about the loss of principle and meaning of democracy in those supposed democrocies who believe they can impose their 'democracy' upon the rest of the 170+ states in the world!!! These 23/24 countries represent less than 10% of the worlds population so on that score world democracy is fully behind Serbia!

Oh what a tangled web we weave and how easily some are deceived...

- Ah but then given the arithmetic skills of some one starts to understand why some are so easily deceieved!!!

EA,

I envy you. You mentioned Burkina Faso and your post went through. When I did the same a week ago my post was suppressed. Who knows,maybe the guy, who censured me was from Burkina Faso ???

That two more European countries recognized Pristina's unilateral declaration of dependence on the EU means little. We expected more EU countries to recognize, as has been reported here for months. It still doesn't make Kosovo Province any more sovereign, nor any more independent than it was two weeks ago. It is still largely an in-house European enterprise, and it still is basically a glorified colony of Brussels. If anything, Holland and Sweden simply recognize the EU mission that is already running the show there. It has little to do with Thaci's own legitimacy as a Head of State.

"There is no point listing the 160 countries who support us, be it China, Brazil, India, Russia - all emerging powers. Yes, we even welcome support from Spain, Venezuela, Cuba, all of the middle east, practically all of Africa and South America. Also, those in North America, New Zealand, practically all of Asia. I'm getting tired now so I'll just stop"
(ZK UK, 4 March 2008 20:41)

First of all ZK, not all countries that haven't recognized Kosova are against it. That's quite a huge leap in logic don't you think? Most countries in the world don't even know, nor do they care, where Kosova is. The countries you mentioned by name have all a vested interest in not recognizing it becasue of fear of setting a precedent for their own domestic separatist movements (Chechnya, Kashmir, Tibet, Catalunya etc)

Maybe the Serbian ambassadors leaving the countries that have recognized can handover their embassies to the new incumbent Kosovar ambassadors. That would be practical and solve 2 problems at once.

"...that part of Europe may find itself getting fairly cold soon"

ZK UK.

Summer is coming and the cold season is ending. It's just your bad luck that it's not November.

PS: I hope this message is taken as serious as your threat to cut the gas to Europe.

The Dutch government, especially the PM (Balkenende) and the FM (Verhagen), does everything to please the USA. Emperor Bush wanted the Dutch to fight in Iraq, so Holland sent its troups to Iraq. Bush ordered the Dutch to fight in Afghanistan, and Holland sent troups to battle the Taleban. At present most Dutch people (including several members of the government!) have regrets over the decision to sent soldiers to Iraq. A recent poll showed that 70% of Dutch people are unhappy with the Dutch mission in Afghanistan. Maybe one day, when they realize that most Serbs in Kosovo are still forced to live in enclaves protected by foreign soldiers, the Dutch government will regret its decision to recognize Kosovo.

Firs Thank you Sverige and Netherland.

Jan, we will make sure that Kosova joins the EU. As far as Turkey is concerned I can neither agree or disagree with you although they will eventualy join the EU in 10-20 years.

I was net-surfing recently and I discovered a sight that provided some interesting perspective on events in Kosovo years before the combined NATO intervention that instigated the supposedly Serb led "mass expulsion" of K-Albanians from Kosovo. I have discovered other sites that relate similar activities going back 50 years.

Some examples:

Hundreds of Serbs and Montenegrins are leaving Kosovo Province in the aftermath of rioting that erupted last spring over demands of the ethnic Albanian majority for greater autonomy. (AP/1981)

It is Yugoslavia's own north-south problem in microcosm. And it can lead to ominous political consequences, as shown by last spring's nationalist demonstrations by the Kosovars (ethnic Albanians) that left eight protesters and one policeman dead. (CSM/1981)

Officials cited widespread harassment of Serbs by Albanians, including two recent murders, personal insults, defacing of graves, burning of hay and other attacks on property. (WND/1982)

A few days ago a newspaper reported that a young Albanian had splashed gasoline in the face of a 12-year-old Serbian boy and ignited it with a match. The boy avoided serious injury by pulling his sweater over his head, extinguishing the flames. Such incidents have prompted many of Kosovo's Slavic inhabitants to flee the province, thereby helping to fulfill a nationalist demand for an ethnically ''pure'' Albanian Kosovo. (NYT/1982)

''A legitimized genocide against the Serbian people is being carried out in Kosovo,'' said Dobrica Cosic, a dissident novelist published here and in the United States, in an interview in Belgrade. ''More than 200,000 Serbs have been forced to leave their home in the last 10, 20 years.'' A steady exodus continues. (NYT/1986)

Yugoslav newspapers recently reported Hodja stated last year that prostitution by Serbian women could halt frequent cases of alleged rapes in Kosovo. Belgrade newspapers have often reported alleged sexual assaults against Serbian and Montenegrin women by Albanians in Kosovo. The presidium of the ruling Communist Party on Tuesday expelled Hodja, now retired, from the party for his alleged support of Albanian nationalism in Kosovo. (AP/1987)

''If Yugoslavia is going to disintegrate into different national states, the process will start in Kosovo,'' worries Milovan Djilas, the country's most celebrated dissident. Kosovo's conflict so far has avoided widespread bloodshed. Albanians rioted in 1981, but since then the struggle has largely been fought with intimidation and verbal violence, not guns. Angry Serbs complain that Albanians are forcing them to leave Kosovo by destroying their cemeteries, vandalizing their fields, killing their animals, pouring disinfectant down their wells, even raping their daughters. (CSM/1988)
(The web sight is balkanpeace.org)

Kosovo's autonomous status was suspended in 1989, supposedly at the whim of Slobodan Milosevic for no apparent reason other than out of control Serb nationalism. These samples would suggest otherwise. This act by Slobo gave birth to a parallel system of government, which resulted in no gains( and a decade of little to no education being given to what is now the vast majority of Kosovars) and the KLA. The KLA organized a controlled system of attacks against Serbian authority, designed not to win independence, but to provoke a response to bring world attention and action to their supposed plight.

Kosovo is now seeking recognition for their self-proclaimed country.

Recognise it for what it is. The governments of Sweden and Holland didn't.

Stay tuned for other Nordic countries, such as: Finland,Norway and Island to follow in next day or two. In addition it will be also Slovenia and Hungary.Things are really looking up for Kosova.

Nenad said "Well, let me say something. Not all countries that HAVE recognised Kosovo are FOR it".

Well how should I put it to you Nenad, if a contry takes the affirmative step to recognize a new state that means that they care enough to do something about it.
If a country, let's say Fiji or any of the small countries members of the UN, does not come out and say that it supports Kosova's independence, it doesn't mean that it won't recognize it, it just means that they could care less.
For mos contires Kosova means nothing. For those that it means something most have come out and supported it.

Kosovo Albanians,

Please answer the following questions honestly.

1) Do you support the formation of an independent Palestine and do you suggest to them that they should declare an UDI from Israel?

2) Do you support the formation of an independent Kurdistan and do you suggest to them that they should declare an UDI from Turkey?

3) Do you think that African-Americans have been treated so bad in the US, more worse than you have ever been treated in Yugoslavia and Serbia?

Answering the questions with an honest yes (because the Palestinian people and the Kurds have been and are much much more entitled to independence than you were, are and ever will be plus African-American were slaves and are still worse of in your dreamland of the freedom (if you have money) and 1 in 15 adults is in jail) would be a kick in the back of your US masters. Are you willing to risk that or will you stab them in the back later anyway? Not that easy, isn't it?

"Jan, we will make sure that Kosova joins the EU. As far as Turkey is concerned I can neither agree or disagree with you although they will eventualy join the EU in 10-20 years.
(R Guraziu, UK, 5 March 2008 01:18)"

In order to join the EU all members have to approve. You must be from another planet or believe in miracles to think that Kosovo would ever become an EU member. All EU countries that are against your illegal UDI will veto any such suggestion 100% for sure and no German, France, UK, or US pressure will make those countries change their mind (that will be the end of the EU as we know it today, a prospect that sounds like music to me). But apparently you have some insight information that most of us do not have and so you can make these kinds of confident but false statements. I will make sure that my vote will go to a political party that has a clear opinion on this matter. If Turkey cannot join for 10-20 years as you claim then Kosovo could not join for another 50-100 years. By that time the US will have become a second world country that has seen various parts join Mexico and way before that Kosovo will be under Serbian control as it should when a territory is a legal part of a souvereign nation.

Jan,

So you are anti-Moslem and very anti-US. You are entitled to your opinions. Those opinions will however not change anything, especially the dominant world position of the US, the only super power.

Jan!
Thank God all Dutches are not like you! Otherwise it could be more and Srebrenicas!

"Answering the questions with an honest yes (because the Palestinian people and the Kurds have been and are much much more entitled to independence than you were, are and ever will be plus African-American were slaves and are still worse of in your dreamland of the freedom (if you have money) and 1 in 15 adults is in jail) would be a kick in the back of your US masters. Are you willing to risk that or will you stab them in the back later anyway? Not that easy, isn't it?
(Jan (Amsterdam), 5 March 2008 05:16) "

Jan ,

We albaninas seam to be much clever that plaestians , kurds, or any other nation who is seeking independence, not to mention the fact that we live in the middle of Europe and not in some God forgoten places somewhere in middle east, and the best is we arrived to get recognition from your country, thanks for that.

Thank you Sweden and the Netherlands!

Slovenia,Iceland also recognise Kosova !
Still Again...
I have lost count...

Ben

" lost the count anymore.."

- seems like you can't count passed at the most 23 countrys which have recognised this illegal secession. But that says more about the loss of principle and meaning of democracy in those supposed democrocies who believe they can impose their 'democracy' upon the rest of the 170+ states in the world!!! These 23/24 countries represent less than 10% of the worlds population so on that score world democracy is fully behind Serbia!

Oh what a tangled web we weave and how easily some are deceived...

- Ah but then given the arithmetic skills of some one starts to understand why some are so easily deceieved!!!
(Princip, UK, 4 March 2008 21:48)

You seem to have trouble counting as well. There are 192 UN countries. Taiwan or PRC Taiwan and Turkish Cyprus aren't UN countries, both recognized Kosova. If we count those two countries as well that comes to 26 countries.

Now 192 - 26 is 166 not 170.
Also 26/192 is 13.5% of the world. 24/192 (UN countries) equals 12.5%. Don't forget another 4 or 5 countries will recognize Kosova from 5-10 (March). Without the unrecognized countries we have almost 13% of the "recognized" world.

"Jan,

So you are anti-Moslem and very anti-US. You are entitled to your opinions. Those opinions will however not change anything, especially the dominant world position of the US, the only super power.
(Joe, 5 March 2008 17:40)"

Joe,

You are also entitled to your opinion and I know that my opinion is not going to change anything. I do not think my opinion would be considered extreme in Europe so I do not have to apologize to anybody or anything. I assume that you are an American. Maybe you can explain to me what kind of extra thrill or pride you get from knowing that the US is a super power and dominant in this world? Are you so confident that you think what is good for the average American must also be good for the rest of the world. In many ways the US is actually quite a backward country compared to Europe and Asia. Some things are related to the size of the US, but some things are also related to some false dreams from the past. The sad thing is that unfortunately many people are trying to copy your wasteful lifestyle because they have been brainwashed by news, commercials, and so on. This world cannot sustain a US lifestyle for all and even in the US it is getting harder and harder. You guys spend billions on going to wars to secure natural resources that are being wasted by driving cars that are too big, wasting food and water, polution and related diseases, climate change, and many other things in your consumption society. Maybe most people in Europe make less money and pay higher taxes, but in the end the life for all seems to be more balanced. Like many people in Europe it is extremely frustrating to see many politicians follow the US policies without thinking. I think Kosovo is a prime example in which Europe should choose for European stability and handle things in a proper way (not playing all kinds of US-style games by ignoring the UN and others). In addition, it seems to be against US policy to reward terrorists and that is what has happened with Kosovo. I may not live the day when the US as a super power will cease to exist, but history has shown that empires come and go and so will you. China is eager to take your place and so are others. Until that time Europe should put aside some internal difference from the past and have the US as only a business partner.

I wanted to say a couple of words to Jan from Amsterdam.
First;the Kosova will join EU ahead of Serbia. Mark my words.
Second, The US is and will remain the strong and undisputed leader of the Free World for centuries to come. There isn't any secesionist movement in Southwestern USA because the latino minority is able to distinguish between what they enjoy in USA and, what Mexico can offer. US citizens of latino background have pledged their allegiance to USA, one nation, under God, undivisible, with liberty and justice for all!

jan Amsterdam

you dont have to feel "sorry" for ur serbian friends,
and you said that most of the people of hollands dont support ur govermant, but have come they were elected in first place then..

many thanks to the dutch goc and also swedish gov

Berat

To Princip, and ZK:
What shift in the world order are we talking about here? The emergence of the EU as a major player in the international affairs, or the tiping point of Russia's economy?
Russia's economic might has just reached the level it had prior to its collapse in 1989. Russia's archaic regulations, and its dependence on the oil market, coupled with the weakening of the economies around the world--which has singificantly reduced demands on oil--has Russia on the brink of another economic downfall. The recent presidential election, coupled with the resignation of the liberal economic advisor, are a good indicator of russia's future potential.

what tangled web has we weaved? what crucial time in history are we talking about. The world is integrating, boundaries are bening eliminated.

Most of the countries that recognise Kosovo did so because of American pressure, especially the small EU states.

And you're even more delusional if you think that any country even cares about the people in Kosovo. I've come across people here saying that Serbia only cares about the land and not about the people. Well let me tell you something: America does not care about the people of Kosovo, they are using the people of Kosovo like pawns in a chess game. Open your eyes and you will realise this.

Not all the citizens of the countries which have recognized Kosovo as independent state agree with the decisions of their government. Look at Italy or Poland for example....

Joe (#32),

When psychiatrist Sigmund Freud visited the USA about a century ago, he said that "America is a mistake, a giant mistake". Freud may have been wrong about the human psyche, but not about the USA. Breaking international laws is a mistake, a giant mistake.

Joe

I realize you are extremely proud of America, but remeber that you are in fact Hungarian and not American (citizenship anyone can get, but it's where you are born and what blood flows in your veins that counts more).

And you're even more delusional if you think that any country even cares about the people in Kosovo. I've come across people here saying that Serbia only cares about the land and not about the people. Well let me tell you something: America does not care about the people of Kosovo, they are using the people of Kosovo like pawns in a chess game. Open your eyes and you will realise this.
(Nenad, 5 March 2008 23:42)

Nenad, no one's that delusioanl to think that the Americans care about us, just like the Russians doen't care about the Serbian people. We've just decided to go with the lesser of the two evils at this moment. A lesser evil that doesn't see Albanains as a threat to national security.
Hope you understand.

@ elton NY
When you mean 3world countries do u mean Afganistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Korea?

ben

Are you not able to count to 25? I perceive that it should reach 40-50 countries. Not quite 90% of the world, but enough to function as a state.

Princip said:

'Ah but then given the arithmetic skills of some one starts to understand why some are so easily deceieved!!!'

As of today the number of countries recognising KosovA is 27. Slovenia (shock horror) and Iceland did the honours yesterday.

(citizenship anyone can get, but it's where you are born and what blood flows in your veins that counts more)

That's the root of all xenophobia and stupidy in the XXI century, and why no problem can be solved on Balkans. There'll be always people of "the same blood" fighting against some "other's blood" - the kind of people prone to politic manoeuvers...

"Jan!
Thank God all Dutches are not like you! Otherwise it could be more and Srebrenicas!
(Rifat, 5 March 2008 10:08)"

First of all, i can't figure out what you were trying to say with this. Secondly, i think Jan made it very clear how he thinks about the whole Kosovo deal and makes a good statement about why it was a mistake to accept the state Kosovo... On the other hand, In Holland we've learned that some part of the islamic community doesn't understand how the dutch system works or just doesn't want to know! Maybe it is all for the best that that Kosovo split from Serbia! Christianity and Islam does not mix well.. It is sad but true, you just have to open a dutch newspaper for that. You don't need to be a racist or nationalist to see that something, sometime went terribly wrong in my country.. Maybe Serbia will be spared in the future for 'incidents' like we have.

Greetings!

Yes, maybe it's true that christianity and islam don't go well together, and probably it will cause some states to fall. Just like it happened with Rome, when the christians and pagans clashed.

From all that, we see that the world in 2000 years didn't change much. If only in one thing the communists were right to try, was to abolish religion

"I wanted to say a couple of words to Jan from Amsterdam.
First; (the) Kosov(a)o will join EU ahead of Serbia. Mark my words.
Second, The US is and will remain the strong and undisputed leader of the Free World for centuries to come. There isn't any secesionist movement in Southwestern USA because the latino minority is able to distinguish between what they enjoy in USA and, what Mexico can offer. US citizens of latino background have pledged their allegiance to USA, one nation, under God, undivisible, with liberty and justice for all!
(G.Z.Basha, 7 March 2008 05:32)"

Ask the FYR of Macedonia if they will join the EU soon (not according to the Greeks and I doubt that the will be pursuated by the EU or NATO(the Greeks will not let anybody push them)). That makes your "mark my words" less credible (but you can have your own hopes and opinion). I still believe that an independent Kosovo cannot join the EU. Mainly because Kosovo will not be able to have a real functioning economy to support all people and joining the EU means that lots of young people will flood Europe and most countries are not waiting for that. Regarding your second comment on the US being the only super power for centuries to come. They can only stay in power by making all kinds of alliances and creating division or threatening or occupying other countries that either have resources, are at strategic locations or that are a threat to the feeling of superiority. China still has some way to go to take over the leading role and maybe they are not interested in that. The US cannot keep affording all its military spending or keep going to war plus they have all kinds of other ever growing expenses (health care, pensions, social security, polution, infrastructure repair, costs because of climate change). With an ever growing Latino population in the US eventually they will demand political power and most of them have a very strong bond with Mexico. Mexico is also developing more and more and eventually they may reclaim territories that were lost in the American-Mexican war. The US is a very divided country along racial (white, African-American, Latino, Asian, native), regional, economical (rich, poor), religious, political (democrat, republican, independent) lines. I am not sure about the justice for all and one nation under God sounds like there is no separation of religion and state. Regarding the loyalty of American to their country, please check out the following link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_secession_proposals

That is all I had to say.

@ elton NY

Democratic, progressive bla, bla, bla

What idea was so progressive in Vietnam or Iraq?

@ Kika

Where did I mention "3world countries"? Please refer to a post #.

As for democracy & progressive I believe that most countries that have recognized Kosova belong to that camp. If you believe that China & Russia equate to democracy & progression then by all means go ahead and believe that.
As adversaries our beliefs are bound to be different.

I was going to continue and preach about how we Serbs and Albanians should all try and put this behind but B92 I guess has not interest in that.

I lost the count anymore... it must be the 90% of the democracies that in a less than a month recognised Kosova... what a dangerous precedent ;)
it seams only Putin and Kostunica to be the rational people in the world ;)the world has gone mad ;)

I remember people here speaking, it’s unbelievable but until this January, that we were about to be dumped ;)

Most democracies have recognized Kosova as an independent state. Serbia is still backed by Russia, China, Spain, Venezuela, Cuba etc.
If I were a progressive Serb I'd hate to see who's on my side right now, but then again I'm not one.

Exactly - you are right! You guys should ask your ambassador to leave Hague, but should send there some of your co-patriots! Then you may join AU (Asian Union) with Russia, Putin & Co, and then you may decide who is reasonable, and who not in the "mad" world! Congrats! Keep going like that!

Thank you Europe!
I think Russia will change the strategy and recognize Kosovo at the end of this year.

we were talking about kosovo here and some guest is worried that europe will spent some days in cold,dont worry about it,worry about serbias future because you are losing all friends,the west and eu are the world,china and rusia without wests money will starve and so will serbia if it follows them.
good luck Kosovo!

Dear Serbian friends,

I am sorry that my corrupt and weak government (that I did not vote for) has made the wrong decision to recognize the illegal UDI of the Serbian province of Kosovo. I cannot speak on behalf of all Dutch people, but I know that a large majority is against it. Like in Serbia we have an increasing muslim population that cannot adapt to our European culture and only stays because the Dutch government is being afraid to be labeled discriminating and so they keep giving them money. Beside some Turkey's vegetables store the muslims have not contributed to or enriched our multicultural society (except building mosques, producing criminal young males, and causing lots of controversies) unlike many other cultures. To all the Kosovo Albanians posting on this website. You people seem to be very desperate considering how overly excited you respond and how many times the postings are recommended (this can only be some planned scheme that you think you can use to demoralize the Serbian visitors). Just be aware that we will try everything possible to prevent you or Turkey to ever become a member of the EU.

Jan,

So you are anti-Moslem and very anti-US. You are entitled to your opinions. Those opinions will however not change anything, especially the dominant world position of the US, the only super power.

Two "irrelevant" countries recognising Kosova's independence. I hope Burkina Faso will follow....)

Congrats to the Kosovars.

Holland? I thought it was "legally" called Netherlands/

jan Amsterdam

you dont have to feel "sorry" for ur serbian friends,
and you said that most of the people of hollands dont support ur govermant, but have come they were elected in first place then..

many thanks to the dutch goc and also swedish gov

Berat

Ben

" lost the count anymore.."

- seems like you can't count passed at the most 23 countrys which have recognised this illegal secession. But that says more about the loss of principle and meaning of democracy in those supposed democrocies who believe they can impose their 'democracy' upon the rest of the 170+ states in the world!!! These 23/24 countries represent less than 10% of the worlds population so on that score world democracy is fully behind Serbia!

Oh what a tangled web we weave and how easily some are deceived...

- Ah but then given the arithmetic skills of some one starts to understand why some are so easily deceieved!!!

Jan!
Thank God all Dutches are not like you! Otherwise it could be more and Srebrenicas!

Firs Thank you Sverige and Netherland.

Jan, we will make sure that Kosova joins the EU. As far as Turkey is concerned I can neither agree or disagree with you although they will eventualy join the EU in 10-20 years.

Maybe the Serbian ambassadors leaving the countries that have recognized can handover their embassies to the new incumbent Kosovar ambassadors. That would be practical and solve 2 problems at once.

Thank you Sweden and the Netherlands!

Kosovo Albanians,

Please answer the following questions honestly.

1) Do you support the formation of an independent Palestine and do you suggest to them that they should declare an UDI from Israel?

2) Do you support the formation of an independent Kurdistan and do you suggest to them that they should declare an UDI from Turkey?

3) Do you think that African-Americans have been treated so bad in the US, more worse than you have ever been treated in Yugoslavia and Serbia?

Answering the questions with an honest yes (because the Palestinian people and the Kurds have been and are much much more entitled to independence than you were, are and ever will be plus African-American were slaves and are still worse of in your dreamland of the freedom (if you have money) and 1 in 15 adults is in jail) would be a kick in the back of your US masters. Are you willing to risk that or will you stab them in the back later anyway? Not that easy, isn't it?

There's nothing unusual coming from the recognition camp. You are at 23 now and you can expect a few more but the world is overwhelmingly supporting Serbia. There is no point listing the 160 countries who support us, be it China, Brazil, India, Russia - all emerging powers. Yes, we even welcome support from Spain, Venezuela, Cuba, all of the middle east, practically all of Africa and South America. Also, those in North America, New Zealand, practically all of Asia. I'm getting tired now so I'll just stop.

OK, granted, seems like Western Europe have some deal going with the US, but with a bit of help from Ukraine (supposedly not paying its gas bill), that part of Europe may find itself getting fairly cold soon. I wonder how many gas powered electricity stations they have? Any idea?

"There is no point listing the 160 countries who support us, be it China, Brazil, India, Russia - all emerging powers. Yes, we even welcome support from Spain, Venezuela, Cuba, all of the middle east, practically all of Africa and South America. Also, those in North America, New Zealand, practically all of Asia. I'm getting tired now so I'll just stop"
(ZK UK, 4 March 2008 20:41)

First of all ZK, not all countries that haven't recognized Kosova are against it. That's quite a huge leap in logic don't you think? Most countries in the world don't even know, nor do they care, where Kosova is. The countries you mentioned by name have all a vested interest in not recognizing it becasue of fear of setting a precedent for their own domestic separatist movements (Chechnya, Kashmir, Tibet, Catalunya etc)

Elton said that not all countries that haven't recognised Kosovo are against it.

Well, let me say something. Not all countries that HAVE recognised Kosovo are FOR it.

Ben

" lost the count anymore.."

- seems like you can't count passed at the most 23 countrys which have recognised this illegal secession. But that says more about the loss of principle and meaning of democracy in those supposed democrocies who believe they can impose their 'democracy' upon the rest of the 170+ states in the world!!! These 23/24 countries represent less than 10% of the worlds population so on that score world democracy is fully behind Serbia!

Oh what a tangled web we weave and how easily some are deceived...

- Ah but then given the arithmetic skills of some one starts to understand why some are so easily deceieved!!!
(Princip, UK, 4 March 2008 21:48)

You seem to have trouble counting as well. There are 192 UN countries. Taiwan or PRC Taiwan and Turkish Cyprus aren't UN countries, both recognized Kosova. If we count those two countries as well that comes to 26 countries.

Now 192 - 26 is 166 not 170.
Also 26/192 is 13.5% of the world. 24/192 (UN countries) equals 12.5%. Don't forget another 4 or 5 countries will recognize Kosova from 5-10 (March). Without the unrecognized countries we have almost 13% of the "recognized" world.

"...that part of Europe may find itself getting fairly cold soon"

ZK UK.

Summer is coming and the cold season is ending. It's just your bad luck that it's not November.

PS: I hope this message is taken as serious as your threat to cut the gas to Europe.

This is a dangerous "precedent". Supporting world democracy is immoral and against "international law"---but protecting IWC (international war criminals), burning embassies, is "legal, moral, and just".

Nenad said "Well, let me say something. Not all countries that HAVE recognised Kosovo are FOR it".

Well how should I put it to you Nenad, if a contry takes the affirmative step to recognize a new state that means that they care enough to do something about it.
If a country, let's say Fiji or any of the small countries members of the UN, does not come out and say that it supports Kosova's independence, it doesn't mean that it won't recognize it, it just means that they could care less.
For mos contires Kosova means nothing. For those that it means something most have come out and supported it.

Stay tuned for other Nordic countries, such as: Finland,Norway and Island to follow in next day or two. In addition it will be also Slovenia and Hungary.Things are really looking up for Kosova.

The Dutch government, especially the PM (Balkenende) and the FM (Verhagen), does everything to please the USA. Emperor Bush wanted the Dutch to fight in Iraq, so Holland sent its troups to Iraq. Bush ordered the Dutch to fight in Afghanistan, and Holland sent troups to battle the Taleban. At present most Dutch people (including several members of the government!) have regrets over the decision to sent soldiers to Iraq. A recent poll showed that 70% of Dutch people are unhappy with the Dutch mission in Afghanistan. Maybe one day, when they realize that most Serbs in Kosovo are still forced to live in enclaves protected by foreign soldiers, the Dutch government will regret its decision to recognize Kosovo.

Slovenia,Iceland also recognise Kosova !
Still Again...
I have lost count...

EA,

I envy you. You mentioned Burkina Faso and your post went through. When I did the same a week ago my post was suppressed. Who knows,maybe the guy, who censured me was from Burkina Faso ???

"Jan,

So you are anti-Moslem and very anti-US. You are entitled to your opinions. Those opinions will however not change anything, especially the dominant world position of the US, the only super power.
(Joe, 5 March 2008 17:40)"

Joe,

You are also entitled to your opinion and I know that my opinion is not going to change anything. I do not think my opinion would be considered extreme in Europe so I do not have to apologize to anybody or anything. I assume that you are an American. Maybe you can explain to me what kind of extra thrill or pride you get from knowing that the US is a super power and dominant in this world? Are you so confident that you think what is good for the average American must also be good for the rest of the world. In many ways the US is actually quite a backward country compared to Europe and Asia. Some things are related to the size of the US, but some things are also related to some false dreams from the past. The sad thing is that unfortunately many people are trying to copy your wasteful lifestyle because they have been brainwashed by news, commercials, and so on. This world cannot sustain a US lifestyle for all and even in the US it is getting harder and harder. You guys spend billions on going to wars to secure natural resources that are being wasted by driving cars that are too big, wasting food and water, polution and related diseases, climate change, and many other things in your consumption society. Maybe most people in Europe make less money and pay higher taxes, but in the end the life for all seems to be more balanced. Like many people in Europe it is extremely frustrating to see many politicians follow the US policies without thinking. I think Kosovo is a prime example in which Europe should choose for European stability and handle things in a proper way (not playing all kinds of US-style games by ignoring the UN and others). In addition, it seems to be against US policy to reward terrorists and that is what has happened with Kosovo. I may not live the day when the US as a super power will cease to exist, but history has shown that empires come and go and so will you. China is eager to take your place and so are others. Until that time Europe should put aside some internal difference from the past and have the US as only a business partner.

Joe (#32),

When psychiatrist Sigmund Freud visited the USA about a century ago, he said that "America is a mistake, a giant mistake". Freud may have been wrong about the human psyche, but not about the USA. Breaking international laws is a mistake, a giant mistake.

Most of the countries that recognise Kosovo did so because of American pressure, especially the small EU states.

And you're even more delusional if you think that any country even cares about the people in Kosovo. I've come across people here saying that Serbia only cares about the land and not about the people. Well let me tell you something: America does not care about the people of Kosovo, they are using the people of Kosovo like pawns in a chess game. Open your eyes and you will realise this.

"Jan, we will make sure that Kosova joins the EU. As far as Turkey is concerned I can neither agree or disagree with you although they will eventualy join the EU in 10-20 years.
(R Guraziu, UK, 5 March 2008 01:18)"

In order to join the EU all members have to approve. You must be from another planet or believe in miracles to think that Kosovo would ever become an EU member. All EU countries that are against your illegal UDI will veto any such suggestion 100% for sure and no German, France, UK, or US pressure will make those countries change their mind (that will be the end of the EU as we know it today, a prospect that sounds like music to me). But apparently you have some insight information that most of us do not have and so you can make these kinds of confident but false statements. I will make sure that my vote will go to a political party that has a clear opinion on this matter. If Turkey cannot join for 10-20 years as you claim then Kosovo could not join for another 50-100 years. By that time the US will have become a second world country that has seen various parts join Mexico and way before that Kosovo will be under Serbian control as it should when a territory is a legal part of a souvereign nation.

I was net-surfing recently and I discovered a sight that provided some interesting perspective on events in Kosovo years before the combined NATO intervention that instigated the supposedly Serb led "mass expulsion" of K-Albanians from Kosovo. I have discovered other sites that relate similar activities going back 50 years.

Some examples:

Hundreds of Serbs and Montenegrins are leaving Kosovo Province in the aftermath of rioting that erupted last spring over demands of the ethnic Albanian majority for greater autonomy. (AP/1981)

It is Yugoslavia's own north-south problem in microcosm. And it can lead to ominous political consequences, as shown by last spring's nationalist demonstrations by the Kosovars (ethnic Albanians) that left eight protesters and one policeman dead. (CSM/1981)

Officials cited widespread harassment of Serbs by Albanians, including two recent murders, personal insults, defacing of graves, burning of hay and other attacks on property. (WND/1982)

A few days ago a newspaper reported that a young Albanian had splashed gasoline in the face of a 12-year-old Serbian boy and ignited it with a match. The boy avoided serious injury by pulling his sweater over his head, extinguishing the flames. Such incidents have prompted many of Kosovo's Slavic inhabitants to flee the province, thereby helping to fulfill a nationalist demand for an ethnically ''pure'' Albanian Kosovo. (NYT/1982)

''A legitimized genocide against the Serbian people is being carried out in Kosovo,'' said Dobrica Cosic, a dissident novelist published here and in the United States, in an interview in Belgrade. ''More than 200,000 Serbs have been forced to leave their home in the last 10, 20 years.'' A steady exodus continues. (NYT/1986)

Yugoslav newspapers recently reported Hodja stated last year that prostitution by Serbian women could halt frequent cases of alleged rapes in Kosovo. Belgrade newspapers have often reported alleged sexual assaults against Serbian and Montenegrin women by Albanians in Kosovo. The presidium of the ruling Communist Party on Tuesday expelled Hodja, now retired, from the party for his alleged support of Albanian nationalism in Kosovo. (AP/1987)

''If Yugoslavia is going to disintegrate into different national states, the process will start in Kosovo,'' worries Milovan Djilas, the country's most celebrated dissident. Kosovo's conflict so far has avoided widespread bloodshed. Albanians rioted in 1981, but since then the struggle has largely been fought with intimidation and verbal violence, not guns. Angry Serbs complain that Albanians are forcing them to leave Kosovo by destroying their cemeteries, vandalizing their fields, killing their animals, pouring disinfectant down their wells, even raping their daughters. (CSM/1988)
(The web sight is balkanpeace.org)

Kosovo's autonomous status was suspended in 1989, supposedly at the whim of Slobodan Milosevic for no apparent reason other than out of control Serb nationalism. These samples would suggest otherwise. This act by Slobo gave birth to a parallel system of government, which resulted in no gains( and a decade of little to no education being given to what is now the vast majority of Kosovars) and the KLA. The KLA organized a controlled system of attacks against Serbian authority, designed not to win independence, but to provoke a response to bring world attention and action to their supposed plight.

Kosovo is now seeking recognition for their self-proclaimed country.

Recognise it for what it is. The governments of Sweden and Holland didn't.

"Answering the questions with an honest yes (because the Palestinian people and the Kurds have been and are much much more entitled to independence than you were, are and ever will be plus African-American were slaves and are still worse of in your dreamland of the freedom (if you have money) and 1 in 15 adults is in jail) would be a kick in the back of your US masters. Are you willing to risk that or will you stab them in the back later anyway? Not that easy, isn't it?
(Jan (Amsterdam), 5 March 2008 05:16) "

Jan ,

We albaninas seam to be much clever that plaestians , kurds, or any other nation who is seeking independence, not to mention the fact that we live in the middle of Europe and not in some God forgoten places somewhere in middle east, and the best is we arrived to get recognition from your country, thanks for that.

ben

Are you not able to count to 25? I perceive that it should reach 40-50 countries. Not quite 90% of the world, but enough to function as a state.

To Princip, and ZK:
What shift in the world order are we talking about here? The emergence of the EU as a major player in the international affairs, or the tiping point of Russia's economy?
Russia's economic might has just reached the level it had prior to its collapse in 1989. Russia's archaic regulations, and its dependence on the oil market, coupled with the weakening of the economies around the world--which has singificantly reduced demands on oil--has Russia on the brink of another economic downfall. The recent presidential election, coupled with the resignation of the liberal economic advisor, are a good indicator of russia's future potential.

what tangled web has we weaved? what crucial time in history are we talking about. The world is integrating, boundaries are bening eliminated.

And you're even more delusional if you think that any country even cares about the people in Kosovo. I've come across people here saying that Serbia only cares about the land and not about the people. Well let me tell you something: America does not care about the people of Kosovo, they are using the people of Kosovo like pawns in a chess game. Open your eyes and you will realise this.
(Nenad, 5 March 2008 23:42)

Nenad, no one's that delusioanl to think that the Americans care about us, just like the Russians doen't care about the Serbian people. We've just decided to go with the lesser of the two evils at this moment. A lesser evil that doesn't see Albanains as a threat to national security.
Hope you understand.

I wanted to say a couple of words to Jan from Amsterdam.
First;the Kosova will join EU ahead of Serbia. Mark my words.
Second, The US is and will remain the strong and undisputed leader of the Free World for centuries to come. There isn't any secesionist movement in Southwestern USA because the latino minority is able to distinguish between what they enjoy in USA and, what Mexico can offer. US citizens of latino background have pledged their allegiance to USA, one nation, under God, undivisible, with liberty and justice for all!

"I wanted to say a couple of words to Jan from Amsterdam.
First; (the) Kosov(a)o will join EU ahead of Serbia. Mark my words.
Second, The US is and will remain the strong and undisputed leader of the Free World for centuries to come. There isn't any secesionist movement in Southwestern USA because the latino minority is able to distinguish between what they enjoy in USA and, what Mexico can offer. US citizens of latino background have pledged their allegiance to USA, one nation, under God, undivisible, with liberty and justice for all!
(G.Z.Basha, 7 March 2008 05:32)"

Ask the FYR of Macedonia if they will join the EU soon (not according to the Greeks and I doubt that the will be pursuated by the EU or NATO(the Greeks will not let anybody push them)). That makes your "mark my words" less credible (but you can have your own hopes and opinion). I still believe that an independent Kosovo cannot join the EU. Mainly because Kosovo will not be able to have a real functioning economy to support all people and joining the EU means that lots of young people will flood Europe and most countries are not waiting for that. Regarding your second comment on the US being the only super power for centuries to come. They can only stay in power by making all kinds of alliances and creating division or threatening or occupying other countries that either have resources, are at strategic locations or that are a threat to the feeling of superiority. China still has some way to go to take over the leading role and maybe they are not interested in that. The US cannot keep affording all its military spending or keep going to war plus they have all kinds of other ever growing expenses (health care, pensions, social security, polution, infrastructure repair, costs because of climate change). With an ever growing Latino population in the US eventually they will demand political power and most of them have a very strong bond with Mexico. Mexico is also developing more and more and eventually they may reclaim territories that were lost in the American-Mexican war. The US is a very divided country along racial (white, African-American, Latino, Asian, native), regional, economical (rich, poor), religious, political (democrat, republican, independent) lines. I am not sure about the justice for all and one nation under God sounds like there is no separation of religion and state. Regarding the loyalty of American to their country, please check out the following link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_secession_proposals

That is all I had to say.

Not all the citizens of the countries which have recognized Kosovo as independent state agree with the decisions of their government. Look at Italy or Poland for example....

"Jan!
Thank God all Dutches are not like you! Otherwise it could be more and Srebrenicas!
(Rifat, 5 March 2008 10:08)"

First of all, i can't figure out what you were trying to say with this. Secondly, i think Jan made it very clear how he thinks about the whole Kosovo deal and makes a good statement about why it was a mistake to accept the state Kosovo... On the other hand, In Holland we've learned that some part of the islamic community doesn't understand how the dutch system works or just doesn't want to know! Maybe it is all for the best that that Kosovo split from Serbia! Christianity and Islam does not mix well.. It is sad but true, you just have to open a dutch newspaper for that. You don't need to be a racist or nationalist to see that something, sometime went terribly wrong in my country.. Maybe Serbia will be spared in the future for 'incidents' like we have.

Greetings!

That two more European countries recognized Pristina's unilateral declaration of dependence on the EU means little. We expected more EU countries to recognize, as has been reported here for months. It still doesn't make Kosovo Province any more sovereign, nor any more independent than it was two weeks ago. It is still largely an in-house European enterprise, and it still is basically a glorified colony of Brussels. If anything, Holland and Sweden simply recognize the EU mission that is already running the show there. It has little to do with Thaci's own legitimacy as a Head of State.

miri wrote:

Summer is coming and the cold season is ending. It's just your bad luck that it's not November.

PS: I hope this message is taken as serious as your threat to cut the gas to Europe.
--

Phew, thank god for summer! Those Germans and Italians won't mind being in the dark too much!

I do find it interesting that Russia brings up the $1.5 billion unpaid Ukraine gas bill at this very moment. Especially when the Ukraine claims it is paid!

Anyway, it's quite obvious why most of western europe is teaming up with the US. They really have no choice but to save their sorry backsides from the imminent shift of world power from the west to East.

The Eastern locomotive is full steam ahead while the Western locomotive is slowing down and could possibly reverse (very soon)!

I don't think it's co-incidence that Serbia manages to always pick the right side at crucial moments in history!

Princip said:

'Ah but then given the arithmetic skills of some one starts to understand why some are so easily deceieved!!!'

As of today the number of countries recognising KosovA is 27. Slovenia (shock horror) and Iceland did the honours yesterday.

Joe

I realize you are extremely proud of America, but remeber that you are in fact Hungarian and not American (citizenship anyone can get, but it's where you are born and what blood flows in your veins that counts more).

(citizenship anyone can get, but it's where you are born and what blood flows in your veins that counts more)

That's the root of all xenophobia and stupidy in the XXI century, and why no problem can be solved on Balkans. There'll be always people of "the same blood" fighting against some "other's blood" - the kind of people prone to politic manoeuvers...

@ elton NY
When you mean 3world countries do u mean Afganistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Korea?

@ elton NY

Democratic, progressive bla, bla, bla

What idea was so progressive in Vietnam or Iraq?

Yes, maybe it's true that christianity and islam don't go well together, and probably it will cause some states to fall. Just like it happened with Rome, when the christians and pagans clashed.

From all that, we see that the world in 2000 years didn't change much. If only in one thing the communists were right to try, was to abolish religion

@ Kika

Where did I mention "3world countries"? Please refer to a post #.

As for democracy & progressive I believe that most countries that have recognized Kosova belong to that camp. If you believe that China & Russia equate to democracy & progression then by all means go ahead and believe that.
As adversaries our beliefs are bound to be different.

I was going to continue and preach about how we Serbs and Albanians should all try and put this behind but B92 I guess has not interest in that.