Confusion in ruling coalition over Kosovo, EU

With these USA and EU’s puppets in our government the EU can easily play with us as they like. The DS does not see that there are new, and new conditions that the EU imposes and certainly one of them will be recognition of Kosovo. I can’t believe that they will accept every condition just to join that ridiculous union. Don’t they see that the EU is doing to us the same thing as the Germans did to the Jews? True, there are no gas chambers, but there is depleted uranium all over the country that they dropped during their merciful angel mission.

Yes, Serbia should continue normal life and improvement of living conditions, economy, new jobs, to fight corruption, etc but Serbia does not need to sign anything with the EU nor to strive for the EU membership. But, we must continue to fight for Kosovo !

bganon,

I have right to see DS as I wish, and yes I see them as I said, but if that bothers you that much let’s call them blind EU obedient. In addition, yes few countries of the EU did not recognise Kosovo (due to their own similar problems) and I do not know how you came to conclusion that I suggested anyhow that those countries will be thrown out from the EU for opposing the UDI. Now, such thing will never happen to the member states.

Furthermore, what Romania’s opposition on UDI has to do with Serbia’s possible EU entrance? Serbia and Romania are in totally different position since Romania is already the EU members and as such have rights on its own position without any risk to be thrown out from that Union. However, Serbia will be conditioned by Kosovo recognition and I wonder what makes you so sure that the EU won’t impose that as one of the condition. I believe you belong to the group of people that would accept loss of Kosovo in favour for the EU membership.

Even the myopic EU would not be able to pursue such a double standard.-said bganon

-I don’t know do you see it but when it comes to double standards the EU seem to apply frequently those standards that usually happen to be against Serbia’s interests. Perhaps you don’t see the EU’s hypocritical attitude toward Serbia, but I feel it strongly by my all senses.

Yes, I do compare EU with Nazi Germany to some extend and I do apologise to those certain countries that I none intentionally put in the same basket. You refer to Europe as defender of aggressive NAZI Germany. Well, after reading so much about the WWII I dare to say that Europe stayed silent for very long whiles our European Jews were slaughtered in the worst possible way. Why the Europe waited for that long to take actions? Why the Serbs were the ones that suffered the worst losses along side with Russians and Jews during the WWII? Yes, I dare to say that Europe was silent participant in the extermination of the Jews and I certainly see the similarity with us. As I said, there are no gas chambers, but there is depleted uranium.

bmrusila firstly you should consider that the position held by those parties might be genuine and not dismiss them as puppets. That kind of attitude does not help debate, and there should be continued debate on this topic.

Neither have I seen that the EU are conditioning joining on recognition of Kosovo - that is an allegation simply made up by the anti EU camp to stop any debate. Remember within the EU there are countries that are against the recognition of Kosovo, are you suggesting the EU will throw them out? If say Romania refuses to recognise, do you really think that the EU would be able to condition Serbian EU entry on Kosovo recognition? Even the myopic EU would not be able to pursue such a double standard.

To compare all of the countries of the EU with nazi Germany is not only false but hugely insulting to EU countries that fought against nazi Germany and those that do not support Kosovo independence. This tendency (which does remind of the Milosevic period) for making generalised, exaggerated statements using emotive, manipulative language has to stop.

peter you might want to see the latest opinion polls, if 34 percent for DS is political suicide then I'm from planet Mars. The real deal would be to see whether Kostunica would carry out his implied threat of forming a government with the radicals. I expect that he hasnt the guts to do so (as he has shown in the past) so he will have to back down. All that Kostunica would do would be to surrender his place as Prime Minister, does anybody believe that Kostunica would want to do this?

That would be political suicide.

'Neither have I seen that the EU are conditioning joining on recognition of Kosovo - that is an allegation simply made up by the anti EU camp to stop any debate.'

bganon, really? so they will accept serbia with kosovo, because serbian constitution says that kosovo is serbia, and serbia cannot be violating its own constitution when making international agreements and joining international organizations? i'm sure you're aware of this. answer this question please: will the 27 eu countries vote to accept serbia in its membership with its constitutional borders, which include kosovo, 12 of them or more having previously recognized the newborn abomination :) ?
answer this please, i may learn something.
and here's a few points for you, proving that serbia will never join the eu and that this is all hot air from puppets indeed, who are trying to manipulate voters and somehow draw the attention from kosovo: 1. ratko mladic, 2. major eu countries do not want more enlargement and will not approve it, ever. making joining the eu an issue is dishonest manipulation. it would be like a fierce debate over where to make the welcoming party when our football team wins the world cup, in belgrade or in novi sad. guess what we can't even qualify. there isn’t even saa and its nothing to do with kosovo. if our so called pro eu politicians really care about joining eu they would talk about the main condition, hague, mladic, karadzic, day and night. don’t you agree? but they don’t really talk about eu. they are trying to hypnotize us with marginal issues. kosovo debt for example. so now i guess dinkic is past free shares, which were election gimmick for tadic reelection, now he's hitting people where they are most vulnerable again, talking about money and how its kosovo debt that’s killing us, ALL OF A SUDDEN.

how come, all this propaganda? well this is how. richard-karadzic's-best-mate-holbrooke said in a cnn program the other week that serbian politicians must stop with this kosovo is ours and start talking about how its lost, to train the public that way. so your pro-eu camp is really camp doing u.s. errands, no more than that. and that's just human, and political misery at work.
and can we please see a poll not conducted before february 17, thank you very much.

If Dinkić & company really want Serbia to join the EU while ceding Kosovo to the K-albanians, then they can by all means leave the coalition & call for a new general election.

Will then see what the people in Serbia really want.

Political suicide anyone?

Serbia does not need to join the EU to prosper. In fact Serbia should use its unique position between Russia and the EU to get investments from both but still remain independent enough to have control of its economy. At the same time, Serbia needs to cement its claim on northern Kosovo, something it will have a very difficult time doing if it is trying at all costs to join the EU. And does anyone actually think the EU will simply just let serbia in? The EU will jerk serbia around for the next 25 years with one stipulation after another. And on a side not, nothing can resurrect serbia's economy with serbia's 1.2 birth rate. If something doesn't change, Serbia will collapse under the strain of a continually decreasing and pseudo-educated work force trying to support europe's oldest population.

bganon:

By 'Dinkić & co', was referring to G17 plus.

Boris is good guy (wears white hat) albeit a little naivet'e - believes in good intentions of EU too

much.

You is martian?
regards to martin :)

I actually agree with bgannon. I don't see how the EU can make recognition of Kosovo an entry condition without unanimity on the issue. EU accession requires a treaty which must be ratified by all members - if the anti-independence members want they can veto any text which requires recognition. It could of course end in stale-mate. But in the EU one side normally backs down (or in truth a fudgy comprimise is made).
Serbia could be allowed into the EU with all its territory minus kosovo being classed as EU (like Greenland/Faroes is part of Denmark but not the EU). Then the individual members could either recognise Kosovo as a province of Serbia outside the EU or an independent nation.
I know that would annoy most of the anti-EU bloc on this website, but in the end such a comprimise would be for Serbs to accept or reject. It is worth remembering that both Ireland and the UK were EU members for years despite Ireland claiming part of Uk territory (although that was renounced in 1999).
However, the problem is that Serbia will suffer economically if they do not join the EU. Smile is right that kosovo is actually far less of a problem than the Hague. You can put all your eggs in the Russia basket, but that leaves your economy very vulnerable (and Russia's economy looks very unstable if commodities start to falter). You need a broad range of economic interaction with different companies, but who is going to invest in Serbia, when they can invest in a neighbouring country and get access to te entire EU market of 500 million rather than a Serbian market of 10 million.

smile that was a very miserable post, but seriously I dont decide on the future of Serbia, referring to what the 'enemy' are saying and then opposing it. Rather its a case of trying to work out what is best for this country. I'd hate to rob you of a hate figure such as Holbrooke, but I'm thinking positive and hoping for Obama, then we can forget about Holbrooke forever (unless some need their 2 minutes hate). Its too easy to just say what you oppose, I could easily join in and agree, but reality is never that easy.

You quoted what I wrote but didnt answer the point. Am I right or not? If I am then have the good grace to say so.
To answer your question - Serbia will not become a full member of the EU for many years yet. If the same system is still in place in the EU in say a decade, and if EU countries are allowed to decide whether they recognise Kosovo or not (as today) and if hypocritically Serbia is not allowed to join unless it recognises Kosovo, we can decide then. Stopping EU integration now, because of something that might happen in a decade or so is kind of silly. If on the other hand they say 'in order to sign the SAA you must recognise Kosovo'. That is a different matter entirely.

bmrusila I disagree, DS has been consistent in their desire for EU membership. Maintaining policy is suddenly puppetish or slavish behaviour?

You say 'Serbia will be conditioned by Kosovo recognition'. I say which official has said this? (not including DSS or SRS)

Romania has a lot to do with Serbian EU entry. If you didnt understand I will spell it out. If it ever comes to this battle in a number of years or so, Serbia will use the argument that existing EU countries such as Spain do not recognise Kosovo. Thus it will be extremely difficult for some EU countries to seek to condition Serbian membership with recognition of Kosovo. Oh that is, if Serbia doesnt halt EU integration, as you want.

If so we might not be in the EU for another 20 or 30 years. By that time probably Spain and Romania will have recongised Kosovo. :(

You know what the worst thing is? The political option you are representing here is always the same. It ALWAYS wants to delay something, it NEVER has any answers or solutions, it ALWAYS has an excellent critique of double standards, but does not hesitate in using double standards in domestic politics. In other words its hot air, great for the kafana, but not the way that the future of the country should be decided. This is one of the main unifying factors between SRS and DSS supporters - the complete emphasis on what they oppose and the complete lack of a single idea of what alternative they advocate. DSS was not always like this, but it has become that way.

I cant stand constant complaining. Give us some solutions for once instead of making up new words to call people you dont agree with.

It starts to look more and more like George Orwell's 1984 all the time.

'You quoted what I wrote but didnt answer the point. Am I right or not?'

bganon, i don’t care for providing answers to irrelevant red herring questions, such as, 'did they ask us to recognize…'
as for your answer to my perfectly legitimate question, does the eu recognize serbia in its borders, your answer is hot air.
so i have learned absolutely nothing from your hot air, although i was hopeful ;)
the issue here is not the impossible and never to happen eu integration, but the defense of the very basic elements of this country, its borders.
but lets look at your stinky little red herring again: 'they dont ask us to recognize in order to sign saa', that's rupel and solana's propaganda line you see. everyone except fools and propaganda peddlers knows that it isn’t about what we recognize, but what the EU recognizes. they recognize kosovo, meaning, they do not recognize us as a country that we legally and constitutionally are, ergo, we will never join the eu unless we change our constitution. to change our constitution would mean to leave kosovo out of it. then, we don’t need to recognize it, sure.

and btw, they are asking us to deliver mladic to sign saa. n'est pas? so let's talk about that. let's talk about what they DO ask. let's not talk about what they DON’T ask, such as kosovo recognition, painting our hair orange, growing square tomatoes, heck, some will be pleased to learn, growing a sense of national responsibility is not required either :)

as for, should we forsake eu integration that will happen maybe in 30 years time for the sake of keeping this country in one piece today… yes :).

let's have that referendum :) and also, let's have those elections :). i implore the so-called pro-eu camp not to be shy about elections :) the next government here will be radical. your eu friends have pushed us back 15 years. personally i don’t care if it’s because the bureaucrats are evil or because they are inept. i don’t care.

I am looking forward to see Serbia in new general election this spring. I wish the radicals to win so I believe that might make even clear where Serbia stand regarding to democracy, human rights and European values.
The mask that Serbia put is too old now. It worked for 5-6 years when Kostunica was president of Serbia and Milosevic was sent to Hague. Thanks God, the world knows now who is who and for what each one stand for. Kostunica is worst then Milosevic, now the world knows. Thanks Jesus Christ!

That's what I say too. Throw out the US/EU puppets and bring in some Russian puppets.
I mean there is a reason why Milosevic stood in power until 2000. It is the same nation after all. The Serbs should be led by the people they deserve.

What a messy political situation in Serbia. The main troublemaker is Kostunica but it is up to Serbian people to chose the right leaders.

Indeed smile let us have that EU referendum, although I'm afraid the political option that you are currently (temporarily?) in bed with disagrees strongly.

They say that the issue is Kosovo and do not want a debate about the EU. In other words they are afraid they will lose.

If the next government is radical, quite frankly so what? As you should know they dont have the first idea about how to run a country. All of their supporters will realise that they are fine at pointing out the errors in others but have no policies of their own to offer. All those 'losers' in transition will suddenly realise there are no jobs under the radicals after all. Their lack of education or skepticism of their own politicians is nothing to do with the EU. Ironically the success of the radical party / DSS will be the thing that sinks it / them. Support for SRS will remain at about 25 percent after this, but things will never be the same. As for DSS if they go in with the radicals they may cease being a parliamentary party altogether by the next election.

As far as the EU is concerned and your point that the EU is to blame for this situation, that is partly true. Any given situation in a country is the result of internal and external factors. Of course Milosevic / Seselj always tried to blame external factors for everything to cover up their own incompetence but that method never worked with me, neither can this new situation. And it is similar - I remember for example when Djindjic tried to achieve a concensus with Kostunica on Kosovo and take a plan to the internationals to pre-empt Kosovo independence, which Djindjic knew was a serious possibility. What did Kostunica say? 'Not now'. (DELAY, DELAY, NO IDEA HOW TO SOLVE ANYTHING)

smile if you dont want to answer my questions, why the hell should I answer yours? No really, why? Or is your aim for us not to answer each others questions? Where is the logic?
Who are you to decide what questions I can pose? You set the agenda and I'm supposed to answer? You point out the error and dont answer a return question for fear not being able to answer the way you want? Are you practicing to stand as an MP?

The fact is that no such condition has been laid for signing the SAA. Yes Mladic is a condition, but Kosovo is more important than a suspected war criminal of the 'Russian school'.

I admire your optimism in thinking that if we dont join the EU we will keep Kosovo. Of course I dont believe for a second that you believe that either.

Tadic should disband parliament and call for new elections. It would be the best outcome for the crisis.

I am looking forward to see Serbia in new general election this spring. I wish the radicals to win so I believe that might make even clear where Serbia stand regarding to democracy, human rights and European values.
The mask that Serbia put is too old now. It worked for 5-6 years when Kostunica was president of Serbia and Milosevic was sent to Hague. Thanks God, the world knows now who is who and for what each one stand for. Kostunica is worst then Milosevic, now the world knows. Thanks Jesus Christ!

What a messy political situation in Serbia. The main troublemaker is Kostunica but it is up to Serbian people to chose the right leaders.

That's what I say too. Throw out the US/EU puppets and bring in some Russian puppets.
I mean there is a reason why Milosevic stood in power until 2000. It is the same nation after all. The Serbs should be led by the people they deserve.

smile that was a very miserable post, but seriously I dont decide on the future of Serbia, referring to what the 'enemy' are saying and then opposing it. Rather its a case of trying to work out what is best for this country. I'd hate to rob you of a hate figure such as Holbrooke, but I'm thinking positive and hoping for Obama, then we can forget about Holbrooke forever (unless some need their 2 minutes hate). Its too easy to just say what you oppose, I could easily join in and agree, but reality is never that easy.

You quoted what I wrote but didnt answer the point. Am I right or not? If I am then have the good grace to say so.
To answer your question - Serbia will not become a full member of the EU for many years yet. If the same system is still in place in the EU in say a decade, and if EU countries are allowed to decide whether they recognise Kosovo or not (as today) and if hypocritically Serbia is not allowed to join unless it recognises Kosovo, we can decide then. Stopping EU integration now, because of something that might happen in a decade or so is kind of silly. If on the other hand they say 'in order to sign the SAA you must recognise Kosovo'. That is a different matter entirely.

bmrusila I disagree, DS has been consistent in their desire for EU membership. Maintaining policy is suddenly puppetish or slavish behaviour?

You say 'Serbia will be conditioned by Kosovo recognition'. I say which official has said this? (not including DSS or SRS)

Romania has a lot to do with Serbian EU entry. If you didnt understand I will spell it out. If it ever comes to this battle in a number of years or so, Serbia will use the argument that existing EU countries such as Spain do not recognise Kosovo. Thus it will be extremely difficult for some EU countries to seek to condition Serbian membership with recognition of Kosovo. Oh that is, if Serbia doesnt halt EU integration, as you want.

If so we might not be in the EU for another 20 or 30 years. By that time probably Spain and Romania will have recongised Kosovo. :(

You know what the worst thing is? The political option you are representing here is always the same. It ALWAYS wants to delay something, it NEVER has any answers or solutions, it ALWAYS has an excellent critique of double standards, but does not hesitate in using double standards in domestic politics. In other words its hot air, great for the kafana, but not the way that the future of the country should be decided. This is one of the main unifying factors between SRS and DSS supporters - the complete emphasis on what they oppose and the complete lack of a single idea of what alternative they advocate. DSS was not always like this, but it has become that way.

I cant stand constant complaining. Give us some solutions for once instead of making up new words to call people you dont agree with.

It starts to look more and more like George Orwell's 1984 all the time.

Tadic should disband parliament and call for new elections. It would be the best outcome for the crisis.

bmrusila firstly you should consider that the position held by those parties might be genuine and not dismiss them as puppets. That kind of attitude does not help debate, and there should be continued debate on this topic.

Neither have I seen that the EU are conditioning joining on recognition of Kosovo - that is an allegation simply made up by the anti EU camp to stop any debate. Remember within the EU there are countries that are against the recognition of Kosovo, are you suggesting the EU will throw them out? If say Romania refuses to recognise, do you really think that the EU would be able to condition Serbian EU entry on Kosovo recognition? Even the myopic EU would not be able to pursue such a double standard.

To compare all of the countries of the EU with nazi Germany is not only false but hugely insulting to EU countries that fought against nazi Germany and those that do not support Kosovo independence. This tendency (which does remind of the Milosevic period) for making generalised, exaggerated statements using emotive, manipulative language has to stop.

peter you might want to see the latest opinion polls, if 34 percent for DS is political suicide then I'm from planet Mars. The real deal would be to see whether Kostunica would carry out his implied threat of forming a government with the radicals. I expect that he hasnt the guts to do so (as he has shown in the past) so he will have to back down. All that Kostunica would do would be to surrender his place as Prime Minister, does anybody believe that Kostunica would want to do this?

That would be political suicide.

Indeed smile let us have that EU referendum, although I'm afraid the political option that you are currently (temporarily?) in bed with disagrees strongly.

They say that the issue is Kosovo and do not want a debate about the EU. In other words they are afraid they will lose.

If the next government is radical, quite frankly so what? As you should know they dont have the first idea about how to run a country. All of their supporters will realise that they are fine at pointing out the errors in others but have no policies of their own to offer. All those 'losers' in transition will suddenly realise there are no jobs under the radicals after all. Their lack of education or skepticism of their own politicians is nothing to do with the EU. Ironically the success of the radical party / DSS will be the thing that sinks it / them. Support for SRS will remain at about 25 percent after this, but things will never be the same. As for DSS if they go in with the radicals they may cease being a parliamentary party altogether by the next election.

As far as the EU is concerned and your point that the EU is to blame for this situation, that is partly true. Any given situation in a country is the result of internal and external factors. Of course Milosevic / Seselj always tried to blame external factors for everything to cover up their own incompetence but that method never worked with me, neither can this new situation. And it is similar - I remember for example when Djindjic tried to achieve a concensus with Kostunica on Kosovo and take a plan to the internationals to pre-empt Kosovo independence, which Djindjic knew was a serious possibility. What did Kostunica say? 'Not now'. (DELAY, DELAY, NO IDEA HOW TO SOLVE ANYTHING)

smile if you dont want to answer my questions, why the hell should I answer yours? No really, why? Or is your aim for us not to answer each others questions? Where is the logic?
Who are you to decide what questions I can pose? You set the agenda and I'm supposed to answer? You point out the error and dont answer a return question for fear not being able to answer the way you want? Are you practicing to stand as an MP?

The fact is that no such condition has been laid for signing the SAA. Yes Mladic is a condition, but Kosovo is more important than a suspected war criminal of the 'Russian school'.

I admire your optimism in thinking that if we dont join the EU we will keep Kosovo. Of course I dont believe for a second that you believe that either.

I actually agree with bgannon. I don't see how the EU can make recognition of Kosovo an entry condition without unanimity on the issue. EU accession requires a treaty which must be ratified by all members - if the anti-independence members want they can veto any text which requires recognition. It could of course end in stale-mate. But in the EU one side normally backs down (or in truth a fudgy comprimise is made).
Serbia could be allowed into the EU with all its territory minus kosovo being classed as EU (like Greenland/Faroes is part of Denmark but not the EU). Then the individual members could either recognise Kosovo as a province of Serbia outside the EU or an independent nation.
I know that would annoy most of the anti-EU bloc on this website, but in the end such a comprimise would be for Serbs to accept or reject. It is worth remembering that both Ireland and the UK were EU members for years despite Ireland claiming part of Uk territory (although that was renounced in 1999).
However, the problem is that Serbia will suffer economically if they do not join the EU. Smile is right that kosovo is actually far less of a problem than the Hague. You can put all your eggs in the Russia basket, but that leaves your economy very vulnerable (and Russia's economy looks very unstable if commodities start to falter). You need a broad range of economic interaction with different companies, but who is going to invest in Serbia, when they can invest in a neighbouring country and get access to te entire EU market of 500 million rather than a Serbian market of 10 million.

With these USA and EU’s puppets in our government the EU can easily play with us as they like. The DS does not see that there are new, and new conditions that the EU imposes and certainly one of them will be recognition of Kosovo. I can’t believe that they will accept every condition just to join that ridiculous union. Don’t they see that the EU is doing to us the same thing as the Germans did to the Jews? True, there are no gas chambers, but there is depleted uranium all over the country that they dropped during their merciful angel mission.

Yes, Serbia should continue normal life and improvement of living conditions, economy, new jobs, to fight corruption, etc but Serbia does not need to sign anything with the EU nor to strive for the EU membership. But, we must continue to fight for Kosovo !

If Dinkić & company really want Serbia to join the EU while ceding Kosovo to the K-albanians, then they can by all means leave the coalition & call for a new general election.

Will then see what the people in Serbia really want.

Political suicide anyone?

bganon,

I have right to see DS as I wish, and yes I see them as I said, but if that bothers you that much let’s call them blind EU obedient. In addition, yes few countries of the EU did not recognise Kosovo (due to their own similar problems) and I do not know how you came to conclusion that I suggested anyhow that those countries will be thrown out from the EU for opposing the UDI. Now, such thing will never happen to the member states.

Furthermore, what Romania’s opposition on UDI has to do with Serbia’s possible EU entrance? Serbia and Romania are in totally different position since Romania is already the EU members and as such have rights on its own position without any risk to be thrown out from that Union. However, Serbia will be conditioned by Kosovo recognition and I wonder what makes you so sure that the EU won’t impose that as one of the condition. I believe you belong to the group of people that would accept loss of Kosovo in favour for the EU membership.

Even the myopic EU would not be able to pursue such a double standard.-said bganon

-I don’t know do you see it but when it comes to double standards the EU seem to apply frequently those standards that usually happen to be against Serbia’s interests. Perhaps you don’t see the EU’s hypocritical attitude toward Serbia, but I feel it strongly by my all senses.

Yes, I do compare EU with Nazi Germany to some extend and I do apologise to those certain countries that I none intentionally put in the same basket. You refer to Europe as defender of aggressive NAZI Germany. Well, after reading so much about the WWII I dare to say that Europe stayed silent for very long whiles our European Jews were slaughtered in the worst possible way. Why the Europe waited for that long to take actions? Why the Serbs were the ones that suffered the worst losses along side with Russians and Jews during the WWII? Yes, I dare to say that Europe was silent participant in the extermination of the Jews and I certainly see the similarity with us. As I said, there are no gas chambers, but there is depleted uranium.

bganon:

By 'Dinkić & co', was referring to G17 plus.

Boris is good guy (wears white hat) albeit a little naivet'e - believes in good intentions of EU too

much.

You is martian?
regards to martin :)

'Neither have I seen that the EU are conditioning joining on recognition of Kosovo - that is an allegation simply made up by the anti EU camp to stop any debate.'

bganon, really? so they will accept serbia with kosovo, because serbian constitution says that kosovo is serbia, and serbia cannot be violating its own constitution when making international agreements and joining international organizations? i'm sure you're aware of this. answer this question please: will the 27 eu countries vote to accept serbia in its membership with its constitutional borders, which include kosovo, 12 of them or more having previously recognized the newborn abomination :) ?
answer this please, i may learn something.
and here's a few points for you, proving that serbia will never join the eu and that this is all hot air from puppets indeed, who are trying to manipulate voters and somehow draw the attention from kosovo: 1. ratko mladic, 2. major eu countries do not want more enlargement and will not approve it, ever. making joining the eu an issue is dishonest manipulation. it would be like a fierce debate over where to make the welcoming party when our football team wins the world cup, in belgrade or in novi sad. guess what we can't even qualify. there isn’t even saa and its nothing to do with kosovo. if our so called pro eu politicians really care about joining eu they would talk about the main condition, hague, mladic, karadzic, day and night. don’t you agree? but they don’t really talk about eu. they are trying to hypnotize us with marginal issues. kosovo debt for example. so now i guess dinkic is past free shares, which were election gimmick for tadic reelection, now he's hitting people where they are most vulnerable again, talking about money and how its kosovo debt that’s killing us, ALL OF A SUDDEN.

how come, all this propaganda? well this is how. richard-karadzic's-best-mate-holbrooke said in a cnn program the other week that serbian politicians must stop with this kosovo is ours and start talking about how its lost, to train the public that way. so your pro-eu camp is really camp doing u.s. errands, no more than that. and that's just human, and political misery at work.
and can we please see a poll not conducted before february 17, thank you very much.

Serbia does not need to join the EU to prosper. In fact Serbia should use its unique position between Russia and the EU to get investments from both but still remain independent enough to have control of its economy. At the same time, Serbia needs to cement its claim on northern Kosovo, something it will have a very difficult time doing if it is trying at all costs to join the EU. And does anyone actually think the EU will simply just let serbia in? The EU will jerk serbia around for the next 25 years with one stipulation after another. And on a side not, nothing can resurrect serbia's economy with serbia's 1.2 birth rate. If something doesn't change, Serbia will collapse under the strain of a continually decreasing and pseudo-educated work force trying to support europe's oldest population.

'You quoted what I wrote but didnt answer the point. Am I right or not?'

bganon, i don’t care for providing answers to irrelevant red herring questions, such as, 'did they ask us to recognize…'
as for your answer to my perfectly legitimate question, does the eu recognize serbia in its borders, your answer is hot air.
so i have learned absolutely nothing from your hot air, although i was hopeful ;)
the issue here is not the impossible and never to happen eu integration, but the defense of the very basic elements of this country, its borders.
but lets look at your stinky little red herring again: 'they dont ask us to recognize in order to sign saa', that's rupel and solana's propaganda line you see. everyone except fools and propaganda peddlers knows that it isn’t about what we recognize, but what the EU recognizes. they recognize kosovo, meaning, they do not recognize us as a country that we legally and constitutionally are, ergo, we will never join the eu unless we change our constitution. to change our constitution would mean to leave kosovo out of it. then, we don’t need to recognize it, sure.

and btw, they are asking us to deliver mladic to sign saa. n'est pas? so let's talk about that. let's talk about what they DO ask. let's not talk about what they DON’T ask, such as kosovo recognition, painting our hair orange, growing square tomatoes, heck, some will be pleased to learn, growing a sense of national responsibility is not required either :)

as for, should we forsake eu integration that will happen maybe in 30 years time for the sake of keeping this country in one piece today… yes :).

let's have that referendum :) and also, let's have those elections :). i implore the so-called pro-eu camp not to be shy about elections :) the next government here will be radical. your eu friends have pushed us back 15 years. personally i don’t care if it’s because the bureaucrats are evil or because they are inept. i don’t care.