Ireland recognizes Kosovo; Slovenia, Montenegro wait

An outrage. Everybody who I've talked to today expressed the same feelings.

In December when Dermot Ahern, Irish FM was in Belgrade he stated that Ireland would not recognise Kosovo without UN or EU approval, neither came and I think the change of position has come from diplomatic pressure from Washington and Brusseles over the last number of weeks. Saying that the move was not an insult to Serbia is defying logic.

I'm deeply ashamed to be Irish today. Just like in the aftermath of the invasion of Iraq we succumbed to US pressure and supported that illegal invasion.

Disgusting, once again our government proving that they have no backbone in upholding international law and once again willing servants of George Bush's twisted NWO.

Ashamed.

As an Irishman I totally repudiate the comments of this corrupt and pathetic Irish Government,which takes its orders and lines its pockets directly from the EU and USA. Perhaps in ten years time the pro-British majority in the North of Ireland can take advantage of this blunder by the Irish government and declare themselves independent too. Shame on them.

In a previous post I described the current government here in Ireland as "a bunch of spineless, unprincipled wasters who slavishly follow the lead of the EU big guns and the US".
To that you can add "corrupt".

Our Taoiseach (Prime Minister) is in big trouble at the moment after it was revealed that he received several large "donations" from wealthy businessmen. These amounted to hundreds of thousands of euro. He has gone to the High Court to try to prevent a tribunal of enquiry from investigating these payments. Already, two ministers from this same party have had to resign after similar revelations. Dozens of local councillors have also been implicated. Basically, they were all taking money from big business in return for favours on planning and other matters.

Also, for a supposedly neutral country, this government has been allowing the Americans the use of Shannon Airport (West of Ireland) as a refueling and refreshment stop for military flights to and from Iraq. Also for rendition flights.

This government is a venal one and so this decision on Kosovo is not surprising.

To my Serb friends, I apologise on behalf of all the good people of Ireland.

-> Max

Motivations NOT to recognize Kosovo:

1) Kosovo independence isn't a solution based on compromise, according to it one side gets 100% it wanted, while the other side gets nothing. This is purely abuse of power.

2) Kosovo Serbs are oppressed now.

3) Kosovo independence is based on double standards - Bosnian Serbs are not allowed to proclaim independence, I believe referendum over independence should be held there to balance situation in the Balkans.

It is not the end of the world and we knew from the very beginning that almost all EU members will recognise Kosovo and therefore I expect that to happen. I am not disappointed (ok a little bit) because I really did expect this to happen. However, this is just the beginning of the new chapter after the UDI and there is still time to change the things. I don’t know how much all this recognition make sense when sooner or later they will all revoke their positions on Kosovo status.

In the end there will be no more than 40 countries altogether that will recognise Kosovo. They only make fools of them selves as they already did make a fools of them sleves after such embarrassments over EU mission.

Thank You ARGENTINA!

BUENOS AIRES -- Argentina will not recognize Priština’s unilateral independence declaration.

Argentine Foreign Minister Jorge Taiana said in Buenos Aires on Friday that it would represent a dangerous precedent in international law, which is not in Argentina's national interest.
:)

Ireland divided shall never be at peace. Same for Serbia.

More puppets of emperor Bush...

Ment & Joe,

Let me clear up a few things with you. To draw a comparison between Kosovo and Ireland is simply ludicrous.

Firstly Ireland was conquered by England in the 16th century. 99% of the population of the island of Ireland were/are native Irish (Serbs) and were forced under English (Ottoman)rule. The English (Ottomans) then 'planted' English & Scottish Protestants (Muslim Albanians) in an attempt to solidify their hold over Ireland and dilute the native population(Kosmet).

In 1916 and in 1919-22 the Irish rose up and acheived their independence using the principles of self determination, that as we were a seperate people with our own language, culture and ethnicity which was distinct of that of the Anglo Saxons, we had the right to independence. Secondly it was legal as we conducted a bilateral agreement with Britain, i.e. the Anglo Irish Treaty which was signed in December 1921 and came into effect the following April. The Treaty was registered with the League of Nations which solidified our legality of independence.

Now lets compare Kosovo case.

1. No right to self determination as there is no such thing as a Kosovar language, nationality, ethnicity etc. so in that aspect you fall down badly.

2. Your UDI was a gross violation of International Law - Helsinki Agreement of 1976 which enshrines the inviolability & integrity of all sovereign nation states, UN Resolution 1244 and the Kumanovo Agreement which re-affirms the Republic of Serbia's sovereignty over all her territory including the Autonomous Republic of Kosmet.

Because you dont fulfill this criteria the UN, EU and many of the international bodies will never fully recognise it. So on the legal side you fall down on that category too.

3. Nota bene* Most importantly - No Bilateral agreement with Belgrade. You need Belgrade permission to seceed from the Republic of Serbia to make it legal. Because you dont have Belgrade's permission, its illegal so therefore you cannot get universal recognition like we got in 1922 as we got the go ahead from London to leave the UK as enshrined in the Anglo Irish Treaty which by the way is also registered in the UN as a legal and binding treaty.

The UDI is simply an immoral landgrab which suites the imeprial urgings and desires of the United States which will have serious reprecussions for world stability. So in effect, Pristina fails all 3 hurdles required to get legal status.

Joe,

Our currupt government does not speak for the vast majority of its citizens. Our PM who is a tax dodger has long since outlived his moral authority to lead our country so in the interest of the Irish people you shoudl do the gracious thing and step down as the current goings on in the Mahon Tribunal is crippling the country.

29 February 2008, I thought I would never say it but today was our day of infamy and I would like to reiterate again that I am Niall O'Doherty truly ashamed to be Irish and I wish to apologise on behalf of the good people of Ireland to the people of Serbia.

P.S. Will Pristina or London/Washington or indeed the morally corrupt Irish government recognise a UDI of Palestine, Tibet, Corsica, Pays Basque, Quebec, Banda Aceh, West Papua, Kurdistan, Scotland, Tamils, Puerto Rico, South Ossetia, Nagorno Karabakh, Abkhazia, Chechnyia etc?

The so-called UCK/KLA was trained and armed by the British SAS,who also aided Pro-British death Squads in the North of Ireland. I leave other people to make their own opinion on issues, but as an Irish republican I both respect,like and admire the Serbian people for their honesty,guts and decency.

Sirius Black wrote:

At this rate, Serbia will be left with very few diplomatic ties. Let's say that in average, 3 countries a week recognize Kosovo between now and the end of the year, which is a fair and valid assumption.
--

Fair and valid assumption? Perhaps for the blind!

You currently have about 30 countries that have already or have the intention to recognise Kosovo. Even some of those are in wait and see mode. Once that list runs out (say next week), you'll be in the same boat as Taiwan when it comes to recognition.

That compares to 60 that have announced they will NOT or have conditions set that will NOT allow them to recognise.

It is expected that about 160 states (give or take a bit) will NOT recognise Kosovo.

Of course there may come a few surprises but the odds are overwhelmingly in Serbia's favour!

This is an absolute disgrace, the Irish nation pursues a policy of "freedom and liberty" (cough cough) abroad while her own people live in slavery under John Bull's iron boot in the 6 counties in the North. If indpendence is good enough for Kosovo, then certainly the irish deserved to be united and free.

26+6=1

Recognizing Kosovo is gonna come back to bite so many politicians come election time.

Thank you IRELAND

For the Record:
Ireland is the 22nd country to recognize the Republic of Kosova. Austria was the 21st.

Thank you IRELAND!

We have already got some statistics. At least we can evaluate the regions of the American influence.

1. 14 European states out of 45 has yielded to the pressure and sold their souls.

2. Next comes Asia where only 3 states (Turkey, Malaysia and occupied Afghanistan) has supported the US outlaws. Thaiwan as an illegal child we do not count.

3. In both Americas where only 2 states ( micro Kosta Rica and what is surprising Peru !) has given their ugly support to the US.

4. In Africa where Bush has recently made presents in 6 countries with only one ( small Senegal) to be grateful ...

5. South from Indochina only Australia has supported them !

Altogether they have a support of the 11 % of the world against 89% who one way or another supported the Serbs ! And what is most surprising only 3 Islamic nations (including one temporaly occupied ) has given their support. So we have no base for panic !

This is a disgraceful decision by our Government. I endorse the apologies made to Serbia by other Irish people on this website and am truly embarressed by the decision of the Irish Government. I am writing to our Government to express my strong objection to this decision.

David Crowley

Ireland, you did the RIGHT thing!!!
Kosova people thank you, deeply.
You guys should buy some books on Celtic history and find out where Celts originated from. There is a very strong Illyrian-Celtic connection.

Thank you Ireland!

I highly doubt they recognized Kosovo's illegal independence because they thought the albanians deserved it, else they wouldn't have had to explain themselves by saying:

"Aherne added that this step should not be viewed as an "act of enmity towards Serbia,"

Other countries should do the same. Smart step!

keep asking myself if Kosovo was so special to the Serbian people why did the government not react sooner rather than later. What have they been doing for the past eight years? (Co/Tyrone)
(Gino, 29 February 2008

....because the US and the EU wouldn't allow Serbia to eliminate the terrorists from Serbia that used Kosovo as their base. At the end of the day the major powers; Bush, Blair and the rest of the money lined EU have allowed the terrorist organisation KLA to temporarily steal part of Ser land.

I am convinced that international law will prevail and the the proud Serbian nation will once more take of their brothers and sisters in Kosovo.

Why would Serbia and former Eastern block countries want to join the EU - there's nothing in it for those countries - other than get rich schemes for US and EU to develop these great countries and line their own pockets and push more debt onto these countries....

Thank you Ireland, it was a matter of time befor they went official with their recognition.

THANK YOU IRLAND
YOU HAVE A GREAT MUSIC
GOD BLESS YOU ALL IRISH PEOPLE

It's interesting to learn about their motivation to do so, I wonder if they had to recognize Kosovo under some kind of pressure or they really believe that Kosovo Albanians are awfully oppressed.

I am sure many Serbs haven't forgotten the shameless way Ireland prevented the then Yugoslavia from playing Ireland in the Euro 2000 qualifiers by stopping the team entering the country. They claimed that the "Yugoslav Football Team is closely identified with the military establishment in Belgrade". A nonsensical claim if ever there was one. Though Ireland won the match when it was played it was Yugoslavia who qualified ultiamtely.

http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/match.html

Bla Bla Bla !
Again another repetitive statement.
The locomotive is Serbia. That locomotive is no longer going forward, and there is a chance that it will go in the wrong direction,” said the German diplomat, adding that the EU was keen for Serbia to move towards Europe, but that this depended on her politicians.
Serbia will nvere be inducted to the
HALL OF EUROPEAN UNION
They just say this for Diplomatic reasons.

Ment, Independent

If you guys think that for the Prime Minister of a country to accept bribes from wealthy businessmen is a sign of "wisdom" or "integrity, then you live in a different moral universe than I do.

Also Ment, you should do a crash course in Irish history if you want to make comparisons. Like Serbia, Ireland was partitioned because a national minority in one province of the country would not integrate with the rest and demanded their own little statelet. We all know what that led to in Ireland and there is still unfinished business. This is the true comparison between Ireland and Serbia - both countries divided at the behest of foreign powers.

PJD

This current government is essentially the same one that refused visas to the Yugoslav team in 1999. They are pathetic.

By the way, Independent, you ask why we don't book a flight to "impoverished and isolated" Serbia. Well, I actually did just that yesterday. I have been to Serbia several times and I am going back in April. A wonderful, beautiful country with a very warm-hearted people.

And Niall is right - everyone I spoke to today was disgusted by the government's action.

I bet £50 that the next news article on this will be about Serbia recalling its ambassador.

At this rate, Serbia will be left with very few diplomatic ties. Let's say that in average, 3 countries a week recognize Kosovo between now and the end of the year, which is a fair and valid assumption. That means that come Christmas, Serbia will have only around 35 ambassadors around the world. The other assumption here is that currently Serbia has 192 of them.

Regards,
Sirius Black

I Don't suppose the Ahern's wish to become the president of the European Council had anything to do with this, do you?

i am a politician in ireland and i am deeply ashamed of our governments actions today. just to let my serbian friends know what sort of government we have in ireland 1/ these are the same group that turned their backs when our northern brothers were being burned out of their houses 2/ they are deeply corrupt preferring to taks bribes from anywhere they can while our health system collapses. ( we had 3000 more hospital beds in our system in the 80s than we have now with a much larger population) 3/ we have handed over our airport for the americans to use as a base to destroy iraq 4/ when ireland voted against the nice european treaty we were made vote again because we got it wrong (i kid you not)5/ they want to put a road through our most important historical site the hill of tara .i will not rest until they lose their power and normal service is returned and ireland is a proud nation once more. serbia my advice to you is stay strong and another piece of advice is stay as far away from joining europe it will destroy your nationalism. there is more than one way to skin a cat remember that

They only make fools of them selves as they already did make a fools of them sleves after such embarrassments over EU mission.
(bmrusila, 29 February 2008 14:51)


Bmrusila,

Please explain who is making fools of themselves.
Serbian government lying to their people about the loss of Kosovo, or the 16 European countries that recognized Kosovo.
The way things are going it seems that Serbia will have only a handful of Ambassadors in Europe.

The Irish have become fat and English....first, they sign away the Occupied Six Counties then recognize a Muslim state on stolen land...what gives?Disgusting.

Niall, Tom, Kieran

In case you forgot, go back to 1922 and remember how Ireland itself got its independence. Also remember the circumstances that led to the "Independence War." I see a lot of parallels on how the Kosovo majority population and Irish majority population were treated by their "overlords" prior to their armed revolts.

I'm sure in your eyes Ireland deserved its independence, so I don't quite understand why you're claiming Kosovo is not entitled to it as well given the history and the "VERY RECENT" bloodshed.

B92 can choose to censor this, but as far as I'm concerned, these "corrupt" Irish politicians of yours are displaying a whole lot more integrity than the three of you on this matter.

By the way, it is laughable how every time a foreign government goes against Serbia on the matter of independence, then by definition it must be corrupt, shameless and/or bullied.

In any case, Ireland did recognize Kosovo while pointing out the obvious once again. Independence truly is the only viable solution left...not necessarily the ideal... but the most VIABLE.

Influencial European politicians and the EU institutions forcing smaller nations, like IRL or PL, to recognise Kosovo and to break UN-Charta at the same time, have certainly not foreseen destructive repercussions this decision for the future and acceptance of the European Integration, which implies on the one hand free movement of people between different countries but on the other guarantees that - even if ethnical proportions within one country change with time - the boarders and territorial integrity of the Member states remains untouched. Imagine how the friendly attitude of many of Irish people against massive migration to their country may changed, if they suddenly realize that in the (very theoretical) case some minority became so populous in one province of their lovely island and express the wish to "self-determinate". Why something that happend to Serbia should not happend to Ireland...

Hi, Tom O'Donoghue
What can you expect from a country who give up the northern
part of its own land when it dropped articles 1&2 of the Irish constitution.
Who knows maybe it's all for the best.
I keep asking myself if Kosovo was so special to the Serbian people why did the government not react sooner rather than later. What have they been doing for the past eight years? (Co/Tyrone)

Thank You Ireland
Just in time for St.Patty's Day Celebrations in New York.
You recognition is much appreciated.

to our irish friends here, guys, no matter. heck, we even have politicians in this country who are doing washington's dirty work, or trying to at least. and slovak pm explained the other day the arm twisting and pressuring that us via eu subjects small and smaller member countries to. this is a shameful time for any decent and rational person but the foundations for this disgrace are so shaky, see eulex, that it will certainly crumble, one way or the other, i hope for a sane way.

Congratulations Ireland to this just and logical step.
Just like on St. Patty's Day, today - as a result - we can declare that we are all Irish for a day.

Niall, Tom,
For months you tried to make us believe that you represent "mainstream" Ireland. You always wanted to speak on behalf of all Irish.
Well on this site you represent your minority.
The majority (thinking differently) is represented by your democratically elected government.

I was net-surfing recently and I discovered a sight that provided some interesting perspective on events in Kosovo years before the combined NATO intervention that instigated the supposedly Serb led "mass expulsion" of K-Albanians from Kosovo. I have discovered other sites that relate similar activities going back 50 years.

Some examples:

Hundreds of Serbs and Montenegrins are leaving Kosovo Province in the aftermath of rioting that erupted last spring over demands of the ethnic Albanian majority for greater autonomy. (AP/1981)

It is Yugoslavia's own north-south problem in microcosm. And it can lead to ominous political consequences, as shown by last spring's nationalist demonstrations by the Kosovars (ethnic Albanians) that left eight protesters and one policeman dead. (CSM/1981)

Officials cited widespread harassment of Serbs by Albanians, including two recent murders, personal insults, defacing of graves, burning of hay and other attacks on property. (WND/1982)

A few days ago a newspaper reported that a young Albanian had splashed gasoline in the face of a 12-year-old Serbian boy and ignited it with a match. The boy avoided serious injury by pulling his sweater over his head, extinguishing the flames. Such incidents have prompted many of Kosovo's Slavic inhabitants to flee the province, thereby helping to fulfill a nationalist demand for an ethnically ''pure'' Albanian Kosovo. (NYT/1982)

''A legitimized genocide against the Serbian people is being carried out in Kosovo,'' said Dobrica Cosic, a dissident novelist published here and in the United States, in an interview in Belgrade. ''More than 200,000 Serbs have been forced to leave their home in the last 10, 20 years.'' A steady exodus continues. (NYT/1986)

Yugoslav newspapers recently reported Hodja stated last year that prostitution by Serbian women could halt frequent cases of alleged rapes in Kosovo. Belgrade newspapers have often reported alleged sexual assaults against Serbian and Montenegrin women by Albanians in Kosovo. The presidium of the ruling Communist Party on Tuesday expelled Hodja, now retired, from the party for his alleged support of Albanian nationalism in Kosovo. (AP/1987)

''If Yugoslavia is going to disintegrate into different national states, the process will start in Kosovo,'' worries Milovan Djilas, the country's most celebrated dissident. Kosovo's conflict so far has avoided widespread bloodshed. Albanians rioted in 1981, but since then the struggle has largely been fought with intimidation and verbal violence, not guns. Angry Serbs complain that Albanians are forcing them to leave Kosovo by destroying their cemeteries, vandalizing their fields, killing their animals, pouring disinfectant down their wells, even raping their daughters. (CSM/1988)
(The web sight is balkanpeace.org)

Kosovo's autonomous status was suspended in 1989, supposedly at the whim of Slobodan Milosevic for no apparent reason other than out of control Serb nationalism. These samples would suggest otherwise. This act by Slobo gave birth to a parallel system of government, which resulted in no gains( and a decade of little to no education being given to what is now the vast majority of Kosovars) and the KLA. The KLA organized a controlled system of attacks against Serbian authority, designed not to win independence, but to provoke a response to bring world attention and action to their supposed plight.

Kosovo is now seeking recognition for their self-proclaimed country.

Recognise it for what it is. The government of Ireland didn’t.

To: Tom, Neill and the Canadian Serb

Ireland is a democratic country, your objection to Irish recognition makes no sense whatsover. You are just a subjectively motivated desire among millions of Irish spread around the world and mostly in America (the policies that you deplore).Your attempt to downplay the recognition by saying 'our Prime Minister is this and that' is not credible enough. I take him to be wiser than you are and irish parliament more representative than you. There is an interesting correclation between Kosovo recognition and democratic and economically prosperous countries. I economic terms these countries make up 80% of world economy. This is very important. On the other hand, there is a correlation between dictatorship and communism and support to Serbia's stance. This is not nice in'it? The Canadian and Amsterdam Serb enjoy a better life in these countries so why not start boycotting them by booking a flight to an impoverished and isolated Serbia and Balkans !!!

Dear free-spirited Irish brothers and sisters,

Please do not worry that we associate you with your government's decision on Kosovo today. Reading the postings here from real Irish only strengthens my positive view we and many have of you. You are also proud people and you know your history and your heart. One day you will be united in The New Irish Republic! I am sure next time there are elections in many EU countries there will be many changes of the guard. The current situation is just an unfortunate sign of the times created by a world of fear and brain-washing by US-led media. I have confidence that most Europeans know better and that the ruling parties will be punished big time for their following of the US. Zivela Ireland and Zivela Srbija!

1) Kosovo independence isn't a solution based on compromise, according to it one side gets 100% it wanted, while the other side gets nothing. This is purely abuse of power.

2) Kosovo Serbs are oppressed now.

3) Kosovo independence is based on double standards - Bosnian Serbs are not allowed to proclaim independence, I believe referendum over independence should be held there to balance situation in the Balkans.
(Anna, SPb, 29 February 2008 16:15)

1.
So 5% of population keeping 95% at ransom is ok, is it?
Also, one side did not get 100% it wanted. Everybody got 100%.

2.
So Anna, the alternative (Albanians being oppressed) is ok with you?
Nice to know that.

Excuse me Ment, but just like ethnic-Albanian apologists, your memory is short. The Irish are not just "upset" about only "2 dozen" dead civilians on bloody Sunday, the Irish, including this Irish-American, is upset about an 800 + year occupation, subjugation, and tyranny against the Irish people from the Saxon.
Research a little further you will find that the potato famine (An Gorta Mór), which was caused by Protestant ascendancy and the seizing of Catholic land. Ireland lost 50 % of its population (4 million people) during the famine through forced migration. It was an 800 year campaign of occupation, the destruction of the Irish language and culture, the destruction and seizure of land and Catholic Churches after the usurpation by Henry, and finally in the 20th century was it a civil rights campaign because of the inequitable access granted to Catholics to land, healthcare, voting, etc.
Once again the conflict between the Irish and the Hun was “partially resolved” by a peace treaty with both sides, not an imposed solution by a military alliance dedicated to peace yet attacking sovereign nations that pose no threat to any member-states.
This is what is wrong with the notion of Kosovo’s independence there are plenty of “oppressed peoples” who are far more deserving of a homeland. If any one deserves peace it’s the Irish and the Jews. The Albanian problem is you tripped the big kid in the school yard, but ran to the teacher when he got up and then beat you up and took your lunch money.

@Anna

Maybe you should also think the countries that DO NOT recognize Kosovo:

...It's interesting to learn about their motivation to NOT recognize, I wonder if they DON'T recognize Kosovo under some kind of pressure or they really believe that Kosovo SERBS are awfully oppressed...

the answer to both questions (yours and mine) are irrelevant anyway

Irac,

In both the points you are making and your choice of language, you sound just like one of the PR spindoctors that the present government are increasingly using to get their message across. And often to justify the unjustifiable.

I would bet my last Euro that I am right.

Tom, Niall...

I was talking about Ireland vs. the UK. I would leave the Northern Ireland out of it. Both sides have signed a peace accord and the rest has come down to horse-trading. I believe, one of the reasons that agreement was even possible was that the violence was largely contained between the warring factions, IRA and Ulster Unionists. The British police and army largely performed policing work and left the "civilian" population intact.
Your "Bloody Sunday" involved only 2 dozen civilians killed in a demonstration and is remembered to this day. In Kosovo we're talking thousands killed and a million displaced... all within a few months.

Tom..Since you're so passionate on the topic, I'd suggest, you stop listening to Serb propaganda in Belgrade cafes and read a few things for a change from authors whose names don't end in "vic"...
As for the parallels... yes they still remain. But first... stop listening to Serb propaganda in Belgrade cafes and ... There are always 2 sides to the story.

The locomotive is Serbia? The locomotive of what? Maybe the "Locomotive" of Moscow. As for we others, albanians, croats, slovenians, macedonians and so on, Serbia is just a black hole, full of selfish spoiled nationalists thinking they are the center of the world. We dont need them. Leave them to the hands of their mother Rassija. It would be good for Europe to get rid of the two bigger burdens we have: Turkey and Serbia. Isolate them.

"You guys should buy some books on Celtic history and find out where Celts originated from. There is a very strong Illyrian-Celtic connection.
(lazer, nyc, usa, 29 February 2008 14:02)"

Oh geez, here we go again with this load that Albanians are always spewing. According to the Albanians they gave birth to European civilization! This "Cracker-Jack" history is gobbled up only by the extremely naive, or by the massively ignorant, or by pseudo-intellectuals with insidious agendas.
Your false sense of pride and history is so funny it's sad.

Those who recognised Kosovo don't really know what they're doing.. The world took pitty on Kosovo Albanians, but give them couple of years and they will do anything to get rid of NATO - violence is always their solution. Yugoslavian tax payers gave them bread, built unversities for them that taught in Albanian language and treated them with respect - this is how Kosovo Albanians say 'thank you' by stealing other people's land and killing those who once fed them.

-> Blero

It's a news for me that Serbs also got 100% of what they wanted as far as Kosovo supposed independence is concerned. How have you come to such genius conclusion?

Kosovo Albanians were not oppressed, they were de-facto independent and could do whatever they wanted. I wonder why was it so necessary to bother with independence de-jury, just to provoke troubles?

IMHO solution based on compromise will be either admission of Serbia together with Kosovo as its part to EU or Kosovo partition.

To "the independent" (#28),

Your argument: wealthy countries are always right, most wealthy countries have recognized Kosovo, hence recognition of Kosovo is right, does not make a lot of sense. In the 1970s the USA was by far the richest country in the world, yet they supported many dictatorial regimes in Latin America. Quite at odds with your argument, right?

FYI: the only country I ever visited on the Balkans was ... Croatia.

Wake up Barry, it was announced by the government on Friday morning.

To our eternal shame.

2 kind of people I hate: the ones that think democracy is the dictatorship of the majority and the ones that believe if the law says so, the thing is fair.

- It was permit by international law to have and trade slaves, not so long ago. Was it fair ?

- If 75% of americans decide that it's time to nuke Iran, the government have to do it ?

Bm rusila; after the entire world recognizes the independance of Kosova, except for some losers, we will then see who the real "fools'' are.

Sorry Tom, my previous comment should read "articles 2&3"

 Blero,

Since 1999 Albanians in Kosovo haven't been oppressed (Let's not speak about previous period), and have been independent from Belgrad de-facto. Do you have problems with this statement?
(Anna, SPb, 1 March 2008 14:52)

And, how long you wanted it to stay like that (no official status)?
For another 100 years?
Tell me you are joking please.
Now we are independent (no need for it to be preceded by de-facto).

Does anyone else find it the least bit curious that all of the post here from Irish people are against this recognition? It seems that the only positive remarks about the recognition are coming from non-Irish, or at least non-Ireland based people. Kind of makes one think that the comments about the current government of Ireland must have at least some merit.

A comment from Dublin:

I would like to add that much of the comments originating from Ireland on this thread do not represent mainstream Irish public opinion; most Irish people are not at all concerned with Kosovo/Serbia and we have outgrown the 'life or death' mentality regarding Northern Ireland - its mythical status has been sharply reduced, particularly in the Republic and pragmatism rules.

If any lessons are to be taken from Ireland and applied to Serbia/Kosovo it should not be impotent comparisons of victim/oppressor, over-exaggerated and over-simplified historical 'facts' (common Celtic roots etc...) but rather that for most people, a united Ireland and a UK Northern Ireland can actually co-exist and flourish There are no borders and numerous freedoms exist (choice of citizenship, expression etc..). The only significant threat to this are criminal paramilitaries who use sectarian discourse to further their own criminal enterprises and are despised by an overwhelming majority on the island.

This is not correct. Ireland's parliament has yet to recognise Kosovo. Our Taoiseach - Prime Minister - merely stated that Ireland WILL recognise Kosovo. There is unfortunately little debate here on the issue, hence the Taoiseach's confidence that it will be recognised this week.

Kosovo Albanians were not oppressed, they were de-facto independent and could do whatever they wanted. I wonder why was it so necessary to bother with independence de-jury, just to provoke troubles?

(Anna, SPb, 29 February 2008 22:31)

“Kosovo Albanians were not oppressed”!!??
Anna, this just proves “how much” you know about the situation in Kosovo.

-> Blero,

Since 1999 Albanians in Kosovo haven't been oppressed (Let's not speak about previous period), and have been independent from Belgrad de-facto. Do you have problems with this statement?

yeah!! thank you ireland, another voice for freedom and independence. i can and will ignore all of the negative comments from the ultras (that "democratic" b-92 posts day in, day out, without fail!) and just reiterate what i have been writing in for the past months: freedom loving people around the word have a basic and true understanding of what has gone on in the balkans. they may not follow every single twist and turn (that's only for "crazy" and obsessed types like myself). everyday i thank god that kosovo/a is free from the horror of serb rule, and that it will never return to such tragic times. of course i hope that recognition continues to come in -- of course it is exciting and tremendously validating. the campaign of bullying and intimidation on the part of the blgd crew and the moscow crew have been largely unsuccessful; people around the world see it for the same intimidation and threat factor as was all too familiar over the past decades.

long live freedom...

robert-0 from frisco

A number of posters hostile to the current Irish government purport to speak on behalf of the 'good' Irish people (ie those that agree with their particular political view). They have no mandate to speak for anyone but themselves.
The majority of Irish people that I have spoken to recently, if they have any opinion on the matter, tend to see the issue in terms of self-determination rather than partition.

Thank you IRELAND

Ireland, you did the RIGHT thing!!!
Kosova people thank you, deeply.
You guys should buy some books on Celtic history and find out where Celts originated from. There is a very strong Illyrian-Celtic connection.

THANK YOU IRLAND
YOU HAVE A GREAT MUSIC
GOD BLESS YOU ALL IRISH PEOPLE

Other countries should do the same. Smart step!

Congratulations Ireland to this just and logical step.
Just like on St. Patty's Day, today - as a result - we can declare that we are all Irish for a day.

Niall, Tom,
For months you tried to make us believe that you represent "mainstream" Ireland. You always wanted to speak on behalf of all Irish.
Well on this site you represent your minority.
The majority (thinking differently) is represented by your democratically elected government.

Thank you Ireland!

Thank You Ireland
Just in time for St.Patty's Day Celebrations in New York.
You recognition is much appreciated.

Thank you Ireland, it was a matter of time befor they went official with their recognition.

For the Record:
Ireland is the 22nd country to recognize the Republic of Kosova. Austria was the 21st.

Thank you IRELAND!

Niall, Tom, Kieran

In case you forgot, go back to 1922 and remember how Ireland itself got its independence. Also remember the circumstances that led to the "Independence War." I see a lot of parallels on how the Kosovo majority population and Irish majority population were treated by their "overlords" prior to their armed revolts.

I'm sure in your eyes Ireland deserved its independence, so I don't quite understand why you're claiming Kosovo is not entitled to it as well given the history and the "VERY RECENT" bloodshed.

B92 can choose to censor this, but as far as I'm concerned, these "corrupt" Irish politicians of yours are displaying a whole lot more integrity than the three of you on this matter.

By the way, it is laughable how every time a foreign government goes against Serbia on the matter of independence, then by definition it must be corrupt, shameless and/or bullied.

In any case, Ireland did recognize Kosovo while pointing out the obvious once again. Independence truly is the only viable solution left...not necessarily the ideal... but the most VIABLE.

They only make fools of them selves as they already did make a fools of them sleves after such embarrassments over EU mission.
(bmrusila, 29 February 2008 14:51)


Bmrusila,

Please explain who is making fools of themselves.
Serbian government lying to their people about the loss of Kosovo, or the 16 European countries that recognized Kosovo.
The way things are going it seems that Serbia will have only a handful of Ambassadors in Europe.

In a previous post I described the current government here in Ireland as "a bunch of spineless, unprincipled wasters who slavishly follow the lead of the EU big guns and the US".
To that you can add "corrupt".

Our Taoiseach (Prime Minister) is in big trouble at the moment after it was revealed that he received several large "donations" from wealthy businessmen. These amounted to hundreds of thousands of euro. He has gone to the High Court to try to prevent a tribunal of enquiry from investigating these payments. Already, two ministers from this same party have had to resign after similar revelations. Dozens of local councillors have also been implicated. Basically, they were all taking money from big business in return for favours on planning and other matters.

Also, for a supposedly neutral country, this government has been allowing the Americans the use of Shannon Airport (West of Ireland) as a refueling and refreshment stop for military flights to and from Iraq. Also for rendition flights.

This government is a venal one and so this decision on Kosovo is not surprising.

To my Serb friends, I apologise on behalf of all the good people of Ireland.

To: Tom, Neill and the Canadian Serb

Ireland is a democratic country, your objection to Irish recognition makes no sense whatsover. You are just a subjectively motivated desire among millions of Irish spread around the world and mostly in America (the policies that you deplore).Your attempt to downplay the recognition by saying 'our Prime Minister is this and that' is not credible enough. I take him to be wiser than you are and irish parliament more representative than you. There is an interesting correclation between Kosovo recognition and democratic and economically prosperous countries. I economic terms these countries make up 80% of world economy. This is very important. On the other hand, there is a correlation between dictatorship and communism and support to Serbia's stance. This is not nice in'it? The Canadian and Amsterdam Serb enjoy a better life in these countries so why not start boycotting them by booking a flight to an impoverished and isolated Serbia and Balkans !!!

1) Kosovo independence isn't a solution based on compromise, according to it one side gets 100% it wanted, while the other side gets nothing. This is purely abuse of power.

2) Kosovo Serbs are oppressed now.

3) Kosovo independence is based on double standards - Bosnian Serbs are not allowed to proclaim independence, I believe referendum over independence should be held there to balance situation in the Balkans.
(Anna, SPb, 29 February 2008 16:15)

1.
So 5% of population keeping 95% at ransom is ok, is it?
Also, one side did not get 100% it wanted. Everybody got 100%.

2.
So Anna, the alternative (Albanians being oppressed) is ok with you?
Nice to know that.

It is not the end of the world and we knew from the very beginning that almost all EU members will recognise Kosovo and therefore I expect that to happen. I am not disappointed (ok a little bit) because I really did expect this to happen. However, this is just the beginning of the new chapter after the UDI and there is still time to change the things. I don’t know how much all this recognition make sense when sooner or later they will all revoke their positions on Kosovo status.

In the end there will be no more than 40 countries altogether that will recognise Kosovo. They only make fools of them selves as they already did make a fools of them sleves after such embarrassments over EU mission.

@Anna

Maybe you should also think the countries that DO NOT recognize Kosovo:

...It's interesting to learn about their motivation to NOT recognize, I wonder if they DON'T recognize Kosovo under some kind of pressure or they really believe that Kosovo SERBS are awfully oppressed...

the answer to both questions (yours and mine) are irrelevant anyway

An outrage. Everybody who I've talked to today expressed the same feelings.

In December when Dermot Ahern, Irish FM was in Belgrade he stated that Ireland would not recognise Kosovo without UN or EU approval, neither came and I think the change of position has come from diplomatic pressure from Washington and Brusseles over the last number of weeks. Saying that the move was not an insult to Serbia is defying logic.

I'm deeply ashamed to be Irish today. Just like in the aftermath of the invasion of Iraq we succumbed to US pressure and supported that illegal invasion.

Disgusting, once again our government proving that they have no backbone in upholding international law and once again willing servants of George Bush's twisted NWO.

Ashamed.

I bet £50 that the next news article on this will be about Serbia recalling its ambassador.

At this rate, Serbia will be left with very few diplomatic ties. Let's say that in average, 3 countries a week recognize Kosovo between now and the end of the year, which is a fair and valid assumption. That means that come Christmas, Serbia will have only around 35 ambassadors around the world. The other assumption here is that currently Serbia has 192 of them.

Regards,
Sirius Black

-> Max

Motivations NOT to recognize Kosovo:

1) Kosovo independence isn't a solution based on compromise, according to it one side gets 100% it wanted, while the other side gets nothing. This is purely abuse of power.

2) Kosovo Serbs are oppressed now.

3) Kosovo independence is based on double standards - Bosnian Serbs are not allowed to proclaim independence, I believe referendum over independence should be held there to balance situation in the Balkans.

As an Irishman I totally repudiate the comments of this corrupt and pathetic Irish Government,which takes its orders and lines its pockets directly from the EU and USA. Perhaps in ten years time the pro-British majority in the North of Ireland can take advantage of this blunder by the Irish government and declare themselves independent too. Shame on them.

Sirius Black wrote:

At this rate, Serbia will be left with very few diplomatic ties. Let's say that in average, 3 countries a week recognize Kosovo between now and the end of the year, which is a fair and valid assumption.
--

Fair and valid assumption? Perhaps for the blind!

You currently have about 30 countries that have already or have the intention to recognise Kosovo. Even some of those are in wait and see mode. Once that list runs out (say next week), you'll be in the same boat as Taiwan when it comes to recognition.

That compares to 60 that have announced they will NOT or have conditions set that will NOT allow them to recognise.

It is expected that about 160 states (give or take a bit) will NOT recognise Kosovo.

Of course there may come a few surprises but the odds are overwhelmingly in Serbia's favour!

Kosovo Albanians were not oppressed, they were de-facto independent and could do whatever they wanted. I wonder why was it so necessary to bother with independence de-jury, just to provoke troubles?

(Anna, SPb, 29 February 2008 22:31)

“Kosovo Albanians were not oppressed”!!??
Anna, this just proves “how much” you know about the situation in Kosovo.

We have already got some statistics. At least we can evaluate the regions of the American influence.

1. 14 European states out of 45 has yielded to the pressure and sold their souls.

2. Next comes Asia where only 3 states (Turkey, Malaysia and occupied Afghanistan) has supported the US outlaws. Thaiwan as an illegal child we do not count.

3. In both Americas where only 2 states ( micro Kosta Rica and what is surprising Peru !) has given their ugly support to the US.

4. In Africa where Bush has recently made presents in 6 countries with only one ( small Senegal) to be grateful ...

5. South from Indochina only Australia has supported them !

Altogether they have a support of the 11 % of the world against 89% who one way or another supported the Serbs ! And what is most surprising only 3 Islamic nations (including one temporaly occupied ) has given their support. So we have no base for panic !

The so-called UCK/KLA was trained and armed by the British SAS,who also aided Pro-British death Squads in the North of Ireland. I leave other people to make their own opinion on issues, but as an Irish republican I both respect,like and admire the Serbian people for their honesty,guts and decency.

The locomotive is Serbia? The locomotive of what? Maybe the "Locomotive" of Moscow. As for we others, albanians, croats, slovenians, macedonians and so on, Serbia is just a black hole, full of selfish spoiled nationalists thinking they are the center of the world. We dont need them. Leave them to the hands of their mother Rassija. It would be good for Europe to get rid of the two bigger burdens we have: Turkey and Serbia. Isolate them.

Recognizing Kosovo is gonna come back to bite so many politicians come election time.

Ment & Joe,

Let me clear up a few things with you. To draw a comparison between Kosovo and Ireland is simply ludicrous.

Firstly Ireland was conquered by England in the 16th century. 99% of the population of the island of Ireland were/are native Irish (Serbs) and were forced under English (Ottoman)rule. The English (Ottomans) then 'planted' English & Scottish Protestants (Muslim Albanians) in an attempt to solidify their hold over Ireland and dilute the native population(Kosmet).

In 1916 and in 1919-22 the Irish rose up and acheived their independence using the principles of self determination, that as we were a seperate people with our own language, culture and ethnicity which was distinct of that of the Anglo Saxons, we had the right to independence. Secondly it was legal as we conducted a bilateral agreement with Britain, i.e. the Anglo Irish Treaty which was signed in December 1921 and came into effect the following April. The Treaty was registered with the League of Nations which solidified our legality of independence.

Now lets compare Kosovo case.

1. No right to self determination as there is no such thing as a Kosovar language, nationality, ethnicity etc. so in that aspect you fall down badly.

2. Your UDI was a gross violation of International Law - Helsinki Agreement of 1976 which enshrines the inviolability & integrity of all sovereign nation states, UN Resolution 1244 and the Kumanovo Agreement which re-affirms the Republic of Serbia's sovereignty over all her territory including the Autonomous Republic of Kosmet.

Because you dont fulfill this criteria the UN, EU and many of the international bodies will never fully recognise it. So on the legal side you fall down on that category too.

3. Nota bene* Most importantly - No Bilateral agreement with Belgrade. You need Belgrade permission to seceed from the Republic of Serbia to make it legal. Because you dont have Belgrade's permission, its illegal so therefore you cannot get universal recognition like we got in 1922 as we got the go ahead from London to leave the UK as enshrined in the Anglo Irish Treaty which by the way is also registered in the UN as a legal and binding treaty.

The UDI is simply an immoral landgrab which suites the imeprial urgings and desires of the United States which will have serious reprecussions for world stability. So in effect, Pristina fails all 3 hurdles required to get legal status.

Joe,

Our currupt government does not speak for the vast majority of its citizens. Our PM who is a tax dodger has long since outlived his moral authority to lead our country so in the interest of the Irish people you shoudl do the gracious thing and step down as the current goings on in the Mahon Tribunal is crippling the country.

29 February 2008, I thought I would never say it but today was our day of infamy and I would like to reiterate again that I am Niall O'Doherty truly ashamed to be Irish and I wish to apologise on behalf of the good people of Ireland to the people of Serbia.

P.S. Will Pristina or London/Washington or indeed the morally corrupt Irish government recognise a UDI of Palestine, Tibet, Corsica, Pays Basque, Quebec, Banda Aceh, West Papua, Kurdistan, Scotland, Tamils, Puerto Rico, South Ossetia, Nagorno Karabakh, Abkhazia, Chechnyia etc?

Hi, Tom O'Donoghue
What can you expect from a country who give up the northern
part of its own land when it dropped articles 1&2 of the Irish constitution.
Who knows maybe it's all for the best.
I keep asking myself if Kosovo was so special to the Serbian people why did the government not react sooner rather than later. What have they been doing for the past eight years? (Co/Tyrone)

Bla Bla Bla !
Again another repetitive statement.
The locomotive is Serbia. That locomotive is no longer going forward, and there is a chance that it will go in the wrong direction,” said the German diplomat, adding that the EU was keen for Serbia to move towards Europe, but that this depended on her politicians.
Serbia will nvere be inducted to the
HALL OF EUROPEAN UNION
They just say this for Diplomatic reasons.

keep asking myself if Kosovo was so special to the Serbian people why did the government not react sooner rather than later. What have they been doing for the past eight years? (Co/Tyrone)
(Gino, 29 February 2008

....because the US and the EU wouldn't allow Serbia to eliminate the terrorists from Serbia that used Kosovo as their base. At the end of the day the major powers; Bush, Blair and the rest of the money lined EU have allowed the terrorist organisation KLA to temporarily steal part of Ser land.

I am convinced that international law will prevail and the the proud Serbian nation will once more take of their brothers and sisters in Kosovo.

Why would Serbia and former Eastern block countries want to join the EU - there's nothing in it for those countries - other than get rich schemes for US and EU to develop these great countries and line their own pockets and push more debt onto these countries....

Ment, Independent

If you guys think that for the Prime Minister of a country to accept bribes from wealthy businessmen is a sign of "wisdom" or "integrity, then you live in a different moral universe than I do.

Also Ment, you should do a crash course in Irish history if you want to make comparisons. Like Serbia, Ireland was partitioned because a national minority in one province of the country would not integrate with the rest and demanded their own little statelet. We all know what that led to in Ireland and there is still unfinished business. This is the true comparison between Ireland and Serbia - both countries divided at the behest of foreign powers.

PJD

This current government is essentially the same one that refused visas to the Yugoslav team in 1999. They are pathetic.

By the way, Independent, you ask why we don't book a flight to "impoverished and isolated" Serbia. Well, I actually did just that yesterday. I have been to Serbia several times and I am going back in April. A wonderful, beautiful country with a very warm-hearted people.

And Niall is right - everyone I spoke to today was disgusted by the government's action.

It's interesting to learn about their motivation to do so, I wonder if they had to recognize Kosovo under some kind of pressure or they really believe that Kosovo Albanians are awfully oppressed.

More puppets of emperor Bush...

Thank You ARGENTINA!

BUENOS AIRES -- Argentina will not recognize Priština’s unilateral independence declaration.

Argentine Foreign Minister Jorge Taiana said in Buenos Aires on Friday that it would represent a dangerous precedent in international law, which is not in Argentina's national interest.
:)

Tom, Niall...

I was talking about Ireland vs. the UK. I would leave the Northern Ireland out of it. Both sides have signed a peace accord and the rest has come down to horse-trading. I believe, one of the reasons that agreement was even possible was that the violence was largely contained between the warring factions, IRA and Ulster Unionists. The British police and army largely performed policing work and left the "civilian" population intact.
Your "Bloody Sunday" involved only 2 dozen civilians killed in a demonstration and is remembered to this day. In Kosovo we're talking thousands killed and a million displaced... all within a few months.

Tom..Since you're so passionate on the topic, I'd suggest, you stop listening to Serb propaganda in Belgrade cafes and read a few things for a change from authors whose names don't end in "vic"...
As for the parallels... yes they still remain. But first... stop listening to Serb propaganda in Belgrade cafes and ... There are always 2 sides to the story.

Ireland divided shall never be at peace. Same for Serbia.

yeah!! thank you ireland, another voice for freedom and independence. i can and will ignore all of the negative comments from the ultras (that "democratic" b-92 posts day in, day out, without fail!) and just reiterate what i have been writing in for the past months: freedom loving people around the word have a basic and true understanding of what has gone on in the balkans. they may not follow every single twist and turn (that's only for "crazy" and obsessed types like myself). everyday i thank god that kosovo/a is free from the horror of serb rule, and that it will never return to such tragic times. of course i hope that recognition continues to come in -- of course it is exciting and tremendously validating. the campaign of bullying and intimidation on the part of the blgd crew and the moscow crew have been largely unsuccessful; people around the world see it for the same intimidation and threat factor as was all too familiar over the past decades.

long live freedom...

robert-0 from frisco

 Blero,

Since 1999 Albanians in Kosovo haven't been oppressed (Let's not speak about previous period), and have been independent from Belgrad de-facto. Do you have problems with this statement?
(Anna, SPb, 1 March 2008 14:52)

And, how long you wanted it to stay like that (no official status)?
For another 100 years?
Tell me you are joking please.
Now we are independent (no need for it to be preceded by de-facto).

I highly doubt they recognized Kosovo's illegal independence because they thought the albanians deserved it, else they wouldn't have had to explain themselves by saying:

"Aherne added that this step should not be viewed as an "act of enmity towards Serbia,"

This is an absolute disgrace, the Irish nation pursues a policy of "freedom and liberty" (cough cough) abroad while her own people live in slavery under John Bull's iron boot in the 6 counties in the North. If indpendence is good enough for Kosovo, then certainly the irish deserved to be united and free.

26+6=1

Sorry Tom, my previous comment should read "articles 2&3"

-> Blero

It's a news for me that Serbs also got 100% of what they wanted as far as Kosovo supposed independence is concerned. How have you come to such genius conclusion?

Kosovo Albanians were not oppressed, they were de-facto independent and could do whatever they wanted. I wonder why was it so necessary to bother with independence de-jury, just to provoke troubles?

IMHO solution based on compromise will be either admission of Serbia together with Kosovo as its part to EU or Kosovo partition.

This is not correct. Ireland's parliament has yet to recognise Kosovo. Our Taoiseach - Prime Minister - merely stated that Ireland WILL recognise Kosovo. There is unfortunately little debate here on the issue, hence the Taoiseach's confidence that it will be recognised this week.

I am sure many Serbs haven't forgotten the shameless way Ireland prevented the then Yugoslavia from playing Ireland in the Euro 2000 qualifiers by stopping the team entering the country. They claimed that the "Yugoslav Football Team is closely identified with the military establishment in Belgrade". A nonsensical claim if ever there was one. Though Ireland won the match when it was played it was Yugoslavia who qualified ultiamtely.

http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/match.html

to our irish friends here, guys, no matter. heck, we even have politicians in this country who are doing washington's dirty work, or trying to at least. and slovak pm explained the other day the arm twisting and pressuring that us via eu subjects small and smaller member countries to. this is a shameful time for any decent and rational person but the foundations for this disgrace are so shaky, see eulex, that it will certainly crumble, one way or the other, i hope for a sane way.

This is a disgraceful decision by our Government. I endorse the apologies made to Serbia by other Irish people on this website and am truly embarressed by the decision of the Irish Government. I am writing to our Government to express my strong objection to this decision.

David Crowley

The Irish have become fat and English....first, they sign away the Occupied Six Counties then recognize a Muslim state on stolen land...what gives?Disgusting.

Bm rusila; after the entire world recognizes the independance of Kosova, except for some losers, we will then see who the real "fools'' are.

I Don't suppose the Ahern's wish to become the president of the European Council had anything to do with this, do you?

Influencial European politicians and the EU institutions forcing smaller nations, like IRL or PL, to recognise Kosovo and to break UN-Charta at the same time, have certainly not foreseen destructive repercussions this decision for the future and acceptance of the European Integration, which implies on the one hand free movement of people between different countries but on the other guarantees that - even if ethnical proportions within one country change with time - the boarders and territorial integrity of the Member states remains untouched. Imagine how the friendly attitude of many of Irish people against massive migration to their country may changed, if they suddenly realize that in the (very theoretical) case some minority became so populous in one province of their lovely island and express the wish to "self-determinate". Why something that happend to Serbia should not happend to Ireland...

i am a politician in ireland and i am deeply ashamed of our governments actions today. just to let my serbian friends know what sort of government we have in ireland 1/ these are the same group that turned their backs when our northern brothers were being burned out of their houses 2/ they are deeply corrupt preferring to taks bribes from anywhere they can while our health system collapses. ( we had 3000 more hospital beds in our system in the 80s than we have now with a much larger population) 3/ we have handed over our airport for the americans to use as a base to destroy iraq 4/ when ireland voted against the nice european treaty we were made vote again because we got it wrong (i kid you not)5/ they want to put a road through our most important historical site the hill of tara .i will not rest until they lose their power and normal service is returned and ireland is a proud nation once more. serbia my advice to you is stay strong and another piece of advice is stay as far away from joining europe it will destroy your nationalism. there is more than one way to skin a cat remember that

Dear free-spirited Irish brothers and sisters,

Please do not worry that we associate you with your government's decision on Kosovo today. Reading the postings here from real Irish only strengthens my positive view we and many have of you. You are also proud people and you know your history and your heart. One day you will be united in The New Irish Republic! I am sure next time there are elections in many EU countries there will be many changes of the guard. The current situation is just an unfortunate sign of the times created by a world of fear and brain-washing by US-led media. I have confidence that most Europeans know better and that the ruling parties will be punished big time for their following of the US. Zivela Ireland and Zivela Srbija!

2 kind of people I hate: the ones that think democracy is the dictatorship of the majority and the ones that believe if the law says so, the thing is fair.

- It was permit by international law to have and trade slaves, not so long ago. Was it fair ?

- If 75% of americans decide that it's time to nuke Iran, the government have to do it ?

To "the independent" (#28),

Your argument: wealthy countries are always right, most wealthy countries have recognized Kosovo, hence recognition of Kosovo is right, does not make a lot of sense. In the 1970s the USA was by far the richest country in the world, yet they supported many dictatorial regimes in Latin America. Quite at odds with your argument, right?

FYI: the only country I ever visited on the Balkans was ... Croatia.

-> Blero,

Since 1999 Albanians in Kosovo haven't been oppressed (Let's not speak about previous period), and have been independent from Belgrad de-facto. Do you have problems with this statement?

Excuse me Ment, but just like ethnic-Albanian apologists, your memory is short. The Irish are not just "upset" about only "2 dozen" dead civilians on bloody Sunday, the Irish, including this Irish-American, is upset about an 800 + year occupation, subjugation, and tyranny against the Irish people from the Saxon.
Research a little further you will find that the potato famine (An Gorta Mór), which was caused by Protestant ascendancy and the seizing of Catholic land. Ireland lost 50 % of its population (4 million people) during the famine through forced migration. It was an 800 year campaign of occupation, the destruction of the Irish language and culture, the destruction and seizure of land and Catholic Churches after the usurpation by Henry, and finally in the 20th century was it a civil rights campaign because of the inequitable access granted to Catholics to land, healthcare, voting, etc.
Once again the conflict between the Irish and the Hun was “partially resolved” by a peace treaty with both sides, not an imposed solution by a military alliance dedicated to peace yet attacking sovereign nations that pose no threat to any member-states.
This is what is wrong with the notion of Kosovo’s independence there are plenty of “oppressed peoples” who are far more deserving of a homeland. If any one deserves peace it’s the Irish and the Jews. The Albanian problem is you tripped the big kid in the school yard, but ran to the teacher when he got up and then beat you up and took your lunch money.

Does anyone else find it the least bit curious that all of the post here from Irish people are against this recognition? It seems that the only positive remarks about the recognition are coming from non-Irish, or at least non-Ireland based people. Kind of makes one think that the comments about the current government of Ireland must have at least some merit.

I was net-surfing recently and I discovered a sight that provided some interesting perspective on events in Kosovo years before the combined NATO intervention that instigated the supposedly Serb led "mass expulsion" of K-Albanians from Kosovo. I have discovered other sites that relate similar activities going back 50 years.

Some examples:

Hundreds of Serbs and Montenegrins are leaving Kosovo Province in the aftermath of rioting that erupted last spring over demands of the ethnic Albanian majority for greater autonomy. (AP/1981)

It is Yugoslavia's own north-south problem in microcosm. And it can lead to ominous political consequences, as shown by last spring's nationalist demonstrations by the Kosovars (ethnic Albanians) that left eight protesters and one policeman dead. (CSM/1981)

Officials cited widespread harassment of Serbs by Albanians, including two recent murders, personal insults, defacing of graves, burning of hay and other attacks on property. (WND/1982)

A few days ago a newspaper reported that a young Albanian had splashed gasoline in the face of a 12-year-old Serbian boy and ignited it with a match. The boy avoided serious injury by pulling his sweater over his head, extinguishing the flames. Such incidents have prompted many of Kosovo's Slavic inhabitants to flee the province, thereby helping to fulfill a nationalist demand for an ethnically ''pure'' Albanian Kosovo. (NYT/1982)

''A legitimized genocide against the Serbian people is being carried out in Kosovo,'' said Dobrica Cosic, a dissident novelist published here and in the United States, in an interview in Belgrade. ''More than 200,000 Serbs have been forced to leave their home in the last 10, 20 years.'' A steady exodus continues. (NYT/1986)

Yugoslav newspapers recently reported Hodja stated last year that prostitution by Serbian women could halt frequent cases of alleged rapes in Kosovo. Belgrade newspapers have often reported alleged sexual assaults against Serbian and Montenegrin women by Albanians in Kosovo. The presidium of the ruling Communist Party on Tuesday expelled Hodja, now retired, from the party for his alleged support of Albanian nationalism in Kosovo. (AP/1987)

''If Yugoslavia is going to disintegrate into different national states, the process will start in Kosovo,'' worries Milovan Djilas, the country's most celebrated dissident. Kosovo's conflict so far has avoided widespread bloodshed. Albanians rioted in 1981, but since then the struggle has largely been fought with intimidation and verbal violence, not guns. Angry Serbs complain that Albanians are forcing them to leave Kosovo by destroying their cemeteries, vandalizing their fields, killing their animals, pouring disinfectant down their wells, even raping their daughters. (CSM/1988)
(The web sight is balkanpeace.org)

Kosovo's autonomous status was suspended in 1989, supposedly at the whim of Slobodan Milosevic for no apparent reason other than out of control Serb nationalism. These samples would suggest otherwise. This act by Slobo gave birth to a parallel system of government, which resulted in no gains( and a decade of little to no education being given to what is now the vast majority of Kosovars) and the KLA. The KLA organized a controlled system of attacks against Serbian authority, designed not to win independence, but to provoke a response to bring world attention and action to their supposed plight.

Kosovo is now seeking recognition for their self-proclaimed country.

Recognise it for what it is. The government of Ireland didn’t.

A comment from Dublin:

I would like to add that much of the comments originating from Ireland on this thread do not represent mainstream Irish public opinion; most Irish people are not at all concerned with Kosovo/Serbia and we have outgrown the 'life or death' mentality regarding Northern Ireland - its mythical status has been sharply reduced, particularly in the Republic and pragmatism rules.

If any lessons are to be taken from Ireland and applied to Serbia/Kosovo it should not be impotent comparisons of victim/oppressor, over-exaggerated and over-simplified historical 'facts' (common Celtic roots etc...) but rather that for most people, a united Ireland and a UK Northern Ireland can actually co-exist and flourish There are no borders and numerous freedoms exist (choice of citizenship, expression etc..). The only significant threat to this are criminal paramilitaries who use sectarian discourse to further their own criminal enterprises and are despised by an overwhelming majority on the island.

Irac,

In both the points you are making and your choice of language, you sound just like one of the PR spindoctors that the present government are increasingly using to get their message across. And often to justify the unjustifiable.

I would bet my last Euro that I am right.

"You guys should buy some books on Celtic history and find out where Celts originated from. There is a very strong Illyrian-Celtic connection.
(lazer, nyc, usa, 29 February 2008 14:02)"

Oh geez, here we go again with this load that Albanians are always spewing. According to the Albanians they gave birth to European civilization! This "Cracker-Jack" history is gobbled up only by the extremely naive, or by the massively ignorant, or by pseudo-intellectuals with insidious agendas.
Your false sense of pride and history is so funny it's sad.

Those who recognised Kosovo don't really know what they're doing.. The world took pitty on Kosovo Albanians, but give them couple of years and they will do anything to get rid of NATO - violence is always their solution. Yugoslavian tax payers gave them bread, built unversities for them that taught in Albanian language and treated them with respect - this is how Kosovo Albanians say 'thank you' by stealing other people's land and killing those who once fed them.

Wake up Barry, it was announced by the government on Friday morning.

To our eternal shame.

A number of posters hostile to the current Irish government purport to speak on behalf of the 'good' Irish people (ie those that agree with their particular political view). They have no mandate to speak for anyone but themselves.
The majority of Irish people that I have spoken to recently, if they have any opinion on the matter, tend to see the issue in terms of self-determination rather than partition.