Looks the close alliance with the US and the rest of United States Of Europe is more important to Poland than that of international law and regional security.
Ahmet Isufi and the other Albanian posters who claim that the people who say they are Polish are not, I say, Please don't make statements like that if you are not in a position to back them up with proof.
Every time someone disagrees with you or sides with Serbs you automatically yell "they are Serbs pretending to be so and so". Is is that hard to believe that there are people out there who actually do agree with Serbs and support the Serbs?
Again, you only look desperate when you accuse people of lying and you can't probe it.
Wojciech / Poznan,
First, behind self-determination doesn't stand only UCK (which was disbanded years ago), it is all Albanians that stand behind that. UCK was the violent expression of the desire of self-determination, Rugova was the peaceful expression of the same thing. Rugova wasn't heard by anyone, certainly not the Serbian regime. He had the majority of the people behind him and was really loved by the people. In the end of 1996 the overwhelming majority of the Albanians still believed the rumors of the UCK were not real, and that they were provocations from Serbia. The fact that the UCK grew so much in such a short amount of time should tell you how the the Kosovo Albanians were feeling.
The same is happening today, there are different forces inside the Kosovo Albanian society, as there are in any country. Some wish to go forward in a peaceful way, checked in everything they do by the EU (interestingly enough this is Thaci). And some others, that maybe you don't know, because they are still a minority, that want to do things differently. But ALL agree on one point: There can't be a return under Serbia.
I am not saying that you don't like Albanians. I just think that between supporting a people that wants freedom and the fear/dislike/protest of the "imperialistic" US, you choose the second one and sacrifice the first. You say "Only because some powerful politicians in Washington or Berlin have their own ideas how the world should look like?" What matters most to the politicians in Washington or Berlin and most of the EU nations is business. And the first thing to get to that is stability. I have nothing against business, or the ideas of how the world should look like of the politicians in US and Berlin and most of the EU. I think they are good ideas and the proof is the life standards of the people in those countries.
The situation would have been much worse, if nothing had happened, that is the meaning of the phrase: "The status quo is untenable". Whoever sees this as a threat from Albanians is either too naive or is not interested in solving this issue.
Blero,
Before you overwhelm Romania with thank you's, don't forget about the Romanian police officers who killed two protesters last year in Prishtina. They escaped justice and fled to Romania.
and it would be a shame if the Polish people were blamed for the recognition of Kosovo.
(Peter Sudyka, 27 February 2008 20:29)
Peter,
The blame game is a fumy one isn’t it.
Looking at the pro-Serb postings it seems that every nation that supports Kosovo independence is the enemy and to blame for the “injustice” caused to Serbia.
Well, the only people to blame are actually the Serbian government.
It is very easy to look for enemies outside but the real enemy of Serbia is their own government.
We (Kosovars) don’t treat Romanians as enemies just because they are not prepared to accept Kosovo as a state.
It is Romania’s right to recognize or not any state.
With Serbia is: ether you are with me or against me.
George the Romanian.
I am happy that you saw the real Kosovo.
I am also happy that you wrote exactly what you saw.
I truly respect that.
I would love to have more people go to Kosovo and see the same.
You have hopefully noticed one thing.
It is the pro-Serbian camp that tries to give Kosovo a religious nature.
The same happened in Bosnia. Weirdly enough they did not use the same propaganda with Croatia (I wonder why??).
I have highlighted in my previous comments that I respect Romania’s stance in regards to Kosovo recognition.
We Kosovo Albanians owe a lot to Romania for their actions in 1999.
It was Romania that did not allow Russian army to fly over Romania to reach Prishtina (after it was seized by Russian troops). We are grateful for that.
We also know that the reason for Non recognition is not religiously motivated.
You never know, after a while Romania might opt to recognize us. We can wait.
Ahmet/blero
You can believe or not in the authenticity of opinions coming from PL appearing at this forum. I have no means to convince you except as to welcome you to visit www.onet.pl or www.gazeta.pl. I assume that knowing Serbian, provided you have attended state run schools in Kosovo (what might be the case when you even know what soviet Smersh was), you would probably able to understand contend and scale of discussion there. I`m aware of the fact that this is only a voice of the public, politicians are influenced by other factors: if you only consider that PL is already about to conclude a military agreement with USA, there you will find the answer where the all pressure to recognize Kosovo comes from… Even the PM was quite straight in the yesterday’s interview saying that PL has been put in the situation where “our partners put us under tremendous pressure, forcing us to take a clear stand, either in one camp with Russia or with Western countries”. I write this all here not because PL is such an important country, rather because in effect of this illegal act it became “the first Slavic country recognizing Kosovo”. This fact is not without meaning in the medial campaign against Serbia, I guess…
Shqarti
I have personally nothing against nations seeking for freedom, and I do not certainly have anything against Albanians as a nation. For a long time I have admired Rughova as a personality, type of “Kosovo- Walesa”, fighting Milosevic regime with peacefully means and calling for reconciliation with Serbs at the same time. However, today situation is completely different: Serbia became a democracy and behind “self-determination of Kosovo” stands UCK, a terroristic organization with obscure mafia relation, which literally black-mailed the whole world to recognize eventually the status quo created by means of terror and ethnic cleaning. If you ask me I would say there are plenty of other nations in Europe, like Catalons or Flams, which deserved the independence through a hard work and respect gained in a peacefully way. Finally, why Serbia should be treated as a state of a second range? Territorial integrity seems to be guaranteed by the UN-Charta, why this primary rule of International law should not be binding in case of Serbia? Only because some powerful politicians in Washington or Berlin have their own ideas how the world should look like? The last sentence does not mean at all that I admire Russia for that it is doing (or better to say pretends to do) for Serbia. The fact is that RUS will do nothing except of some noise, and at the end of the day bill Serbia excessively high (taking control of energy sector). They practiced this already in Belarus. In change Serbs will maybe get “Putin`s version of democracy”, what heaven forbid! The sad conclusion is that Serbia does not have at the moment comfortable situation. Therefore I support that Polish PM recently said: the EU should stop to irritate Serbia, and start to think about some kind of “compensation” for Serbia .
Remember my friend, the government took the decision, not the average person and it is sad to hear that the Serbs do not view us as friends anymore, but I am sure when I say this even those Poles who viewed independence as the only solution to end the problems in the Balkans feel a great deal of empathy towards Serbia, as I do, taking into account what our peoples have gone through. Now probably we will be seeing our flags burning in the streets of Mitrovica, Belgrade etc., and it would be a shame if the Polish people were blamed for the recognition of Kosovo.
Blero
I almost forgot to mention, the best of the herbal vodkas (you mention ¯ubrówka, which is good) is ¯o³¹dkowa Gorzka. If you can get this, you will not regret it. This is the best for medicinal purposes and cultured drinking. Of the Balkan alcohols I know little, however I have tried slivovica and raki, after both of which I was rather happy, hehe.
You forgot to put this:
Switzerland on Wednesday recognised Kosovo as an independent state and declared it will soon establish diplomatic and consular ties.
I am not Pole, but Rumanian.
Just to make it clear from the beginning: I support my country decision not to recognize Kosovo UDI (I emphasize: UDI, meaning not officially sanctioned through UN).
However, I do not consider myself entitled to give advice to Poles how to deal with the issue (as much as I am not accepting advice from anybody regarding how Romanians should deal with the same issue...).
Poland is a big country (I was there visiting, job&business related, couple times), with great potential, and I am sure that Warsaw politicians are always concerned with the best for their citizens.
I want just to make a comment, based on my three years spent in Kosovo, working for UNMIK: the conflict has nothing to do with religion, at least from the perspective of Albanians (also, Serbs from Kosovo told me the same: it was all about what ethnic group will be the dominant one, therefore a fight for political supremacy).
The Albanians are Muslims, but their Islam is so 'light' that it has no connection whatsoever with Wahhabism etc. I dare to say that their attitude towards religion mirrors the Romanians' one: we also consider religion (in our case, Orthodox Christianity) as part of national tradition, but not as something fundamental for "being Romanian". Maybe this is the effect of 50 years of Communism, or has to do with the fact that Ottoman Empire simply retained suzerainty over Romanian territories but never occupied it or colonized (no villayet, no provinces, only client regimes, paying tribute to Istanbul) - I don't know for sure, this is for historians to explain. So, I have noticed that Albanians are indeed very proud of their history and culture (of which religion is a part) but they are not fundamentalists, no way... Also, I don’t know if their position is natural, or has to do with the need to retain US and Western Europe support – to me, it looked quite natural attitude.
Of course, any society has extremists - I have seen in Kosovo (Mitrovica, Vushtrri/Vucitrn, Skenderaj/Srbica) some people wearing Islamic clothes (man with short pants, women with veil) but they are just a few ad are regarded as 'crazy people' (I was told they are getting paid by some Saudi-sponsored charity organization, only to do this...). We also have people in Romania, Jehova Witnesses, engaged in aggressive propaganda, and even Orthodox clerics very engaged in criticizing sects, Adventists etc. But this kind of bigotry is just something isolated.
Hope my comments will offend no one, if so, my apologies, is only what I have seen with my own eyes :)
Regards from Bucharest,
George
PS: I use this opportunity to answer (very late indeed) to an Albanian poster, who was suggesting somewhere on this forum that Romania's position regarding Kosovo UDI is connected with religion. Well, it is not. Most of Rumanians don't care about their religion too much, why they should care about Kosovo Albanians religion? Also, the fact that on the Kosovo issue we are siding with Serbia and international law has nothing to do with the fact that we and Serbs are Orthodox Christians... We should agree that the times when international alliances were concluded based on religion are only memories...
@Wojciech/Poznan
I am from Poznan too! Dok³adniej rzecz bior¹c, z Rataj.
I can't speak for others, but here are my answers for your doubts:
1) I find those page because the link was posted in one of polish forum. In Gazeta Wyborcza, to be precise.
2) How can I answer to those Serbs who are angry with our recognition? I simply have no heart to defend, since I deeply feel that my government did something which is really shameful.
3) The phrases "Kosovo is Serbia" is simply a catchphrase which is copied. I don't know Serbian, but I used several times phrase "Kosovo je srce Srbije" (And i hope it means "Kosowo jest sercem Serbii") just because it's a slogan, a catchphrase.
ANyway, just go to forum in gazeta wyborcza (if you are Polish then you will find it easily) and read through the comments. I think 3/4 of people discussing are pro-Serbian. There are some anti-Serbian, and some who don't care, but I have impression that they are in minority.
Kosowo jest Serbskie!
Sobieski if you are a bit short on cash from too many heavy drinking nights before.
(Peter Sudyka, 27 February 2008 13:29)
Thanks Peter,
Sobieski is ok (actually quite good) however I have found that ¯ubrowka is the medicine for the day after.
And yes, you are right. Belvedere Vodka is good (especially ice cold).
Mike says…“This leaves little doubt that the war in the former Yugoslavia was fought solely in order to secure access to oil from new and biddable states in central Asia."
I agree. I have learned through my many years on this earth that situations are seldom as they appear; it is not the behavior but the reason for the behavior that is important.
That being said, please find the following that I posted 9/17/07…
“The US is motivated by oil and they are using NATO to achieve their goals.
Quoting from a piece I read...
"Clinton's Energy Secretary Bill Richardson spelled out America’s Balkan policy a few months prior to the 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia:
"This is about America's energy security… It's also about preventing strategic inroads by those who don't share our values. We're trying to move these newly independent countries toward the West… We would like to see them reliant on western commercial and political interests rather than going another way. We've made a substantial political investment in the Caspian, and it's very important to us that both the pipeline map and the politics come out right."
In 2004, we read the pipeline will be built by the US-registered Albanian Macedonian Bulgarian Oil Corporation (AMBO).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4130271.stm
It is clear why there is interest in the Balkans, and it is not humanitarian.
Encouraging division of the countries throughout Europe so as to "divide and conquer", have them join NATO and then make them reliant on the West is the motive.
The Russians know exactly what the US is doing.
Unfortunately, the people of the Balkans are the ones who are paying for it.
(Roger7, 17 September 2007 20:38)”
The attached links offer more information.
As I said in September, the Russians were well aware and obviously took advantage of the situation.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/IE16Ag01.html
http://www.upi.com/International_Security/Energy/Analysis/2008/02/05/analysis_europes_pipeline_war/2456/
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/22/europe/energy.php
I have mixed reactions to the government's decision, I already said why, but in a nutshell, it is good that they opt for a more-or-less unified approach dedicated to promoting peace in the Balkans, on the other hand it is bad that they take the side over the West by default and forget about a country that they have much in common with historically, culturally, linguistically and religiously, traditionally had good relations with and suffered the same fates as they did.
I think most Poles have got mixed opinions about this.
Blero
Indeed I am surprized to see so many Polish people posting here, I remember it was only me and another guy called zbyszek. Perhaps this is one guy that is posting under several names/has his friends to post also, but it could well also be that some Poles have joined here since the reality of the Kosovo independence hit them, because I before the independence there was very little about Kosovo in the media. Here where I work nobody knew what was going on until February 19th.
BTW Chopin is a great vodka. I also recommend Belvedere, this is my favorite, or Sobieski if you are a bit short on cash from too many heavy drinking nights before.
Hi. I think that one has to say two things: on one hand from the legalistic point of view, this independence is simply illegal, it's clear.
Now, from the realistic point of view, you cannot govern a province inhabited in 95% by so different people (language, history, religion, habits) who so much don't want you to govern them, and in addition as your country has shown that the army is able to raze hundreds of thousands from their households, or close universities or inducing unemployment. That's why in my opinion, Poland did a right move, recognizing just the reality. True that it's painful, and true that there are conflicting arguments. Also I think that in Poland there is a genuine feeling of sorrow about that.But that's how it is. It is also a pity that Serbian position has been not realistic during the negotiations.
What I personally hope is that your country will be able to extend your sovereignty in the north Kosovo, and also hope that one day you will unite with Srpska Republika in Bosnia. But only under the peaceful development of things. Maybe than you will celebrate a success.
One day the Western world will look back and regret this tragic mistake. The torjan horse has been inplanted in Europe now. During this dark time, Serbia will truly see who their real friends are, unfortunately, Poland has proven they aren't one of them.
I am from Poland and I am ashamed because of decision of our government. One poster quoted ere a poll - here are another one
http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/9,80269,4963952.html
Question: Should Poland recognise Kosovo?
26% Yes
24% No, not now
45% No, never
5% I don't care/don't know
In first comment GW said that "majority of Poles support independence of Kosovo", despite that clearly 66% of voters was against. I suspect it was the same with the IMG poll.
To all the Polish posting opinions on behalf of Poland:
Please, if you wish to put a comment on your name do so.
Do not pretend that you represent Poland.
I say this because I know personally hundreds of Poles that disagree with you.
Peter Sudyka,
You know that, though I have disagreed with few of your comments I respect your views.
I know that in the beginning your opinion was much more pro-Serbian however with time I believe that you have tried to be more unbiased.
I believe that you learned one very important lesson today (therefore your response to СМЕРШ).
As soon as Poland opted to recognise Kosovo, the pro-Serbian camp started with their standard offensive comments.
One thing that astonishes me is that apart from you none of the “Polish that speak for Poland” reacted to this kind of insults.
Makes you think, doesn’t it Peter: Who are these Polish that are happy to apologise to Serbs for their governments actions but have no nerve to defend Poland.
Also Peter, you know yourself that for over 6 months it was only you (and I believe one more Polish whose name I forgot) in this forum from the Polish side.
Suddenly we have an “invasion” of Poles in this forum.
Also every single one of them uses phrases “Kosovo is Serbia” or “Kosovo is province”.
Not very Polish don’t you think.
Do you believe that they just found out that B92 exists?
P.S.
I will be visiting Poland soon and thank the Polish people for their support.
I am taking with me a bottle of Kosovo Grappa (Raki Rrushi).
From their side the Polish side have promised a bottle of Chopin Vodka.
I have been posting coments on b92 web site for about a year now , and I do not recall any POLES posting coments before. Al of suden so many Poles or I should say people pretending to be Polish have posted coments.
Next countries following Poland is/are: Chek Republic, Switzerland among many others.
The first round of recognition will end Friday and next week(March) the second round will start.Things are looking up for Kosova.
So much for Slavic unity.Ha, Ha, Ha. I knew the Poles would eventualy come around. How do you feel now Mr. Peter S. ?Now if we get all the slavic countries to do the same before Serbia gets hit with the Islamic nations recognitions in the third round.
What is the real reason for creation of the second Albanian state in Europe?
(Wojciech/Poznan, 26 February 2008 23:40)
It's a pretty simple reason, it stabilizes the region, because the will of the majority of the people that live in Kosovo is respected. It was a really really strong will. And if you start asking yourself why people want something that strong, you will get closer to some understanding. Things like that don't just pop out of nowhere. Albanians will tell you that they suffered under Serbia, that they asked for their rights peacefully at first and will remind you about 1998-1999 and will tell you that they see no good future under Serbia. As for the Serbs, judging from the comments I read on this site, they won't ask themselves why Albanians want to be independent or they will give you fantastic answers. There is a really high chance that the most of the Serbs commenting here don't reflect the general opinion in Serbia though.
It would be really interesting to see the results of a poll among the Serbs with the question "why do you think Albanians wanted independence?"
And a poll among the Albanians of Kosovo: "Do you think the Serbs should stay in Kosovo and the refugees return?"
For the will of the Serbs of Kosovo, if they don't want to cooperate, let them go, everybody on its own, let it be partitioned. Or pretend it is not partitioned, but actually let it happen(like it has been in the last years actually). Partition is really sad, but it would be a solution, if they don't want to cooperate with EU and Albanians.
Just a personal opinion.
I'm a Pole and the decision of my government isn’t in my name. I and many of my friends are ashamed of this decision. Many people are interested in this issue in Poland and all of them shared Serbs view. Our politicians are conformists without the honors but the ordinary men are with you.
I am greeting and I am apologizing for my government.
The Oil factor in Kosovo independence - this will help you understand
February 24, 2008
On February 17, Kosovo broke away from Serbia and declared its independence. Not surprisingly it was instantly recognized as a state by the U.S., Germany, Britain and France. With 4203 square miles area, Kosovo may be a tiny territory but in the great game of oil politics it holds great importance which is in inverse proportion to its size.
Kosovo does not have oil but its location is strategic as the trans-Balkan pipeline - known as AMBO pipeline after its builder and operator the US-registered Albanian Macedonian Bulgarian Oil Corporation - will pass through it.
The pipeline will pump Caspian oil from the Bulgarian port of Burgas via Macedonia to the Albanian port of Vlora, for transport to European countries and the United States. Specifically, the 1.1 billion dollar AMBO pipeline will permit oil companies operating in the Caspian Sea to ship their oil to Rotterdam and the East Coast of the USA at substantially less cost than they are experiencing today.
When operational by 2011, the pipeline will become a part of the region's critical East-West corridor infrastructure which includes highway, railway, gas and fiber optic telecommunications lines. This pipeline will bring oil directly to the European market by eliminating tanker traffic through the ecologically sensitive waters of the Aegean and Mediterranean Seas.
In 2000, the United States Government’s Trade and Development Agency financed a feasibility study of pipeline which updated and enlarged the project's original feasibility study dating from early 1996. Brown & Root Energy Services, a wholly-owned British subsidiary of Halliburton completed the original feasibility study for this project.
The US Trade and Development Agency's paper published May 2000, which assesses that the pipeline is a US strategic interest. According to the paper, the pipeline will provide oil and gas to the US market worth $600m a month, adding that the pipeline is necessary because the oil coming from the Caspian sea will quickly surpass the safe capacity of the Bosphorus.
The project is necessary, according to a paper, because the oil coming from the Caspian sea "will quickly surpass the safe capacity of the Bosphorus as a shipping lane". The scheme, the agency notes, will "provide a consistent source of crude oil to American refineries", "provide American companies with a key role in developing the vital east-west corridor", "advance the privatisation aspirations of the US government in the region" and "facilitate rapid integration" of the Balkans "with western Europe".
The pipeline itself, the agency says, has also been formally supported "since 1994". The first feasibility study, backed by the US, was conducted in 1996.
In November 1998, Bill Richardson, the then US energy secretary, spelt out his policy on the extraction and transport of Caspian oil. "This is about America's energy security," he explained. "It's also about preventing strategic inroads by those who don't share our values. We're trying to move these newly independent countries toward the west.
"We would like to see them reliant on western commercial and political interests rather than going another way. We've made a substantial political investment in the Caspian, and it's very important to us that both the pipeline map and the politics come out right."
Professor Michel Chossudovsky, author of America at War in Macedonia, provides a deep insight into the Albanian-Macedonian-Bulgarian-Oil Pipeline project:
"The US based AMBO pipeline consortium is directly linked to the seat of political and military power in the United States and Vice President Dick Cheney's firm Halliburton Energy. The feasibility study for AMBO's Trans-Balkan Oil Pipeline, conducted by the international engineering company of Brown & Root Ltd. [Halliburton's British subsidiary] has determined that this pipeline will become a part of the region's critical East-West corridor infrastructure which includes highway, railway, gas and fibre optic telecommunications lines.
"Coincidentally, White and Case LLT, the New York law firm that President William J. Clinton joined when he left the White House also has a stake in the AMBO pipeline deal.
"And upon completion of the feasibility study by Halliburton, a senior executive of Halliburton was appointed CEO of AMBO. Halliburton was also granted a contract to service US troops in the Balkans and build "Bondsteel" in Kosovo, which now constitutes "the largest American foreign military base constructed since Vietnam".
"The AMBO Trans-Balkans pipeline project would link up with the pipeline corridors between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea basin, which lies at the hub of the World's largest unexplored oil reserves. The militarization of these various corridors is an integral part of Washington's design.
"The US policy of "protecting the pipeline routes" out of the Caspian Sea basin (and across the Balkans) was spelled out by Clinton's Energy Secretary Bill Richardson barely a few months prior to the 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia: This is about America's energy security. It's also about preventing strategic inroads by those who don't share our values. We're trying to move these newly independent countries toward the west. We would like to see them reliant on western commercial and political interests rather than going another way. We've made a substantial political investment in the Caspian, and it's very important to us that both the pipeline map and the politics come out right.
"In favour of the AMBO pipeline negotiations, the U.S. Government has been directly supportive through its Trade and Development Agency (TDA) and the South Balkan Development Initiative (SBDI). The TDI suggested the need for Albania, Macedonia, and Bulgaria to "use regional synergies to leverage new public and private capital [from U.S. companies]" while also asserting responsibility of the U.S. Government "for implementing the initiative."
And the U.S. Government has fulfilled its role in promoting the AMBO project, granting several contracts to Halliburton for servicing U.S. troops in the Balkans, including a five year contract authorized in June of 2005 by the U.S. Army at a value of $1.25 billion, despite criminal allegations made against Halliburton that are currently being probed by the F.B.I., according to Craig A. Brannagan author of On the Political Executive: Public or Private?
This leaves little doubt that the war in the former Yugoslavia was fought solely in order to secure access to oil from new and biddable states in central Asia. It is obvious that the former Yugoslavia, especially Serbia, was a serious problem for the realization of the plan. The intervention in Kosovo and Metohija was carried out in order to please Albania, whose port of Vlore is the ultimate destination of the pipeline.
In 1998, fighting breaks out between Serbian forces and ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. President Milosevic sends in troops, and atrocities were committed. This opens the door for NATO’s Operation Allied Force, occupying Kosovo in 1999 and then handing it over to the UN, with a huge American presence in the area. UN resolution 1244 is drafted stipulating that Kosovo is Serbian land, and at the same time gives Kosovars governance autonomy.
June 1999, in the immediate aftermath of the bombing of Yugoslavia, US forces seized 1,000 acres of farmland in southeast Kosovo at Uresevic, near the Macedonian border, and began the construction of Camp Bondsteel which is the biggest construction project of a US military base since the war in Vietnam. Now, why would the United States build such a massive camp in Kosovo?
In evaluating Kosovo’s independence, it is also important to know that Kosovo is not gaining independence or even minimal self-government.
It will be run by an appointed High Representative and bodies appointed by the U.S., European Union and NATO. An old-style colonial viceroy and imperialist administrators will have control over foreign and domestic policy. It is similar to the absolute power held by L. Paul Bremer in the first two years of the U.S. occupation of Iraq. U.S. has merely consolidated its direct control of a totally dependent colony in the heart of the Balkans.
An International Civilian Representative (ICR) will be appointed by U.S. and E.U. officials to oversee Kosovo. This appointed official can overrule any measures, annul any laws and remove anyone from office in Kosovo. The ICR will have full and final control over the departments of Customs, Taxation, Treasury and Banking.
The E.U. will establish a European Security and Defense Policy Mission (ESDP) and NATO will establish an International Military Presence. Both these appointed bodies will have control over foreign policy, security, police, judiciary, all courts and prisons.
These bodies and the ICR will have final say over what crimes can be prosecuted and against whom; they can reverse or annul any decision made. The largest prison in Kosovo is at the U.S. base, Camp Bondsteel, where prisoners are held without charges, judicial overview or representation.
US has argued the case of Kosovo is unique and that separatists in other states in Europe and the Balkans will not receive aid and welcome from major powers. "It is incorrect to view this as a precedent and it doesn't serve any purpose to view it as a precedent," said Alejandro Wolff, US deputy permanent representative to the UN. He may be right because other separatists may not have any attraction for the oil giants.
at Maks/ Toni
you should know that forums of Polish newspapers are full of outraged commentaries about this decision. Even the people supporting this govermt. feel ashemed. I have a strange feeling also that the medias in PL manipulate the sondages: 2 opinion polls showing either 65 or 82% of population being against to acknolegement of so-colled independet Kosovo disappeared immiedately, today TV came out with this sondage which apparatelly shows 56% of support. It is just beyond any believe if you have ever seen the discussions on net or among your friends etc. Maybe this is the reason some of us are trying to send a message to Serbia through B92. Anyway I think that blindly following of the politic of this US administration in this case will bring nothing good for Balkans and Europe. What is the real reason for creation of the second Albanian state in Europe?
Thank you Poland! The rest of the countries, please keep them coming!
--
You see lots of countries have their own secessionist problems. Take Turkey for example, it has recognised Kosovo and is now fighting a war with its secessionists!
I think other countries would prefer to avoid conflict! Turkey has not set a good example.
so far, more countries have rejected the UDI than accepted.
After this, why would any country give its minority (if it has a sizable one)autonomony when it will just lead to a unilateral declaration for indepenance?
This process has damaged the rights of minorities everywhere.
I wonder if Polish goverment
will recognize independent Palistine once it is declared.Will Donald and his buddies be consequent and do it or politically correct and turn it down.By the way 2 more polish soldiers killed in afganistan today.What are we doing there?Are we not supposed to protect our serb brothers who have never betrayed us during history.
Poles Do you remember 100 Polish shot for every german soldier rule which applied only to us and serbs during ww2 while fathers of UCK members served in ss skanderbeg division?
Very good remark.Kacsor(Duck)Kaczynski followed by Donald Duck.Does it mean that we will be governed by ducks forever?Quack quack quack.It does not sound good.
This must be changed.
What a very 'smart' move by the Polish government. First was the missiles and now this. I'm sure the Russians are really impressed. What the hell was Tusk thinking of. What Poland needs good neighbourly relations with Russia.
My Serbian Brohers: I write in the name of a lot Polish citizens. We were, we are and we will be against splitting Serbia into pieces. Our "goverment" doesn't show the will of most of Polish People. Please, tell your friends that we are your brothers, not traitors. KOSOVO JE SRBJA!
Are you suggesting that Poles are posting responses to articles on the B92 site are actually Serbs pretending to be Poles? You must be aware that the way the USA forced Kosovo's separation from Serbia has consequences that go beyond the Balkans. People all over the world, including yours truly, are bothered by the way emperor Bush is handling foreign affairs. So why should the Poles on this forum not be real Poles unhappy with the way George Walker Bush keeps the Polish government on a leash?
Harm Russia??? How is Katyn; partitions; hundreds of years of Russification; slave labor in gulags; Soviet invasions of 1919, 1939 and 1956; leaving our partizans to die like dogs in 1944; suppression of our inteligencja and culture; torture, deportation and murder of our partizans after WW2 and recent Russian behavior (meat ban, gas pipe etc.) in any way better than Poland apparently trying to harm Russia for 200 years???
Even my family has been touched by Soviet brutality, my grandfather was tortured for being a member of the AK (Armia Krajowa) by Soviet troops after WW2, I would like to hear of instances when Poles actually "harmed" Russians in any way like they ever harmed us! They want to talk about International Law, let them look at how they administered it towards us.
Srbija !
Poland apologizes for our prime-minister Tusk.
He`s stupid.
…
Greetz from Poland!
(Tifo PL, 26 February 2008 16:16)
I'm a Pole and I'm ashamed of the decision. …. Shame!
….
(maciek, 26 February 2008 17:40)
Most of us (Polish) think that our gov made a mistake!
(Pawel from Poland, 26 February 2008 18:17)
What a joke! It looks like all “Poles” are so interested in Kosovo Independence and for even more, “they” are so sad for Serbia loosing 8.11% of its territory (sorry "15.5%" of its territory ?????????), also they cannot hide how much “ashamed“ they are with their own government.
Late last week, papers in Warsaw quoted high officials as saying, "despite everything, we'll swallow that frog", and adding that the Kosovo recognition will happen as "there is no other way out", in bids to "harmonize the approach with the U.S. and EU".
Yes, there is a "way out"! You could could grow a pair and make decisions based on morality + law + common sense & justice instead of just pleasing your masters. I have a question; the majority of poles are against K-indy yet the "democratic" government of Poland goes contrary to their wishes. How come so many "democratic" countries don't represent the "will of their people" yet so called "authoritarian" governments like Russia represent the majority will of their people? I guess you can call a sows ear a silk purse but it don't make it so!
Overwhalming mayority of Polse are AGAINST KOSOVO INDEPANDANCE!!! 75% of Poles suppots you Serbija! Our gov'ment made this decission against our will!!!
Just look on our prime minister's name - Donald. Is this slavic name?? He makes me laugh...
Just want to let all the Serbs know, that what is government in Poland doing on the international arena is to very small extent an image of what nation thinks.
I have no idea how this issue will be resolved, but what have K-Albanians done is a very big mistake. I wish both sides all the best but the situation is very problematic and recently no one has any reasonable idea what to do. Impact of K-Albanians decission may be really tragic.
Once again I want to highlight:
what is government in Poland doing on the international arena, reflects to very small extent nation's mood.
We are all people ... some of us understand who Slavians are ... and there is justice. Sometimes it is just a matter of time.
POLAND such a shame!!! How can you recognize this illegal state supported by US and other creasy politicians from EU? You all have forgotten the past the 2nd WW and the US policy in Iraq, Palestine etc. All pragmatic European please wake up!!
K-Albanians fought for their freedom not only with Serbia but above all Russia and the Slavic universe.
It is strange that the main "pundits" in International Law who fear the "precedent" are Slavic nations, and unfortunately it seams that they are compact and step back only because of their national economic interests. The moral values of defending the human and national rights of the repressed Kosovars is just something that they do not consider, in contrast with the western progressivism.
"Prime Minister Donald Tusk and Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski have decided to stand with their key allies, the U.S., and those countries within the EU who advocate Kosovo' independence, the Polish media report."
Hmm, maybe this should read as "Prime Minister Donald Tusk and Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski have accepted the large bribe/extortion sum from the US State Department in order to be seen as standing with their key allies." Why does Poland, or anyone else for that matter need to "recognize" Kosovo Province's unliateral declaration of dependence on the West? Recognizing a glorified colony at this point, after US, British, and German propping, is only diminishing returns.
Don't pretend that you Serbs are getting suprised from such a move that Poland did today in recognizing independence of Kosova. As you see that Poland proved themselves that they support self determination and oppose oppresion of other human beings. And this reflects Poland vision of having a being a stabilizing factor in the Democratic europe.
Kosova is piling up recognition every day and they just keep coming. Time is in our side, the longer Kosova is here, the more the world supports Kosova.
My opinion of the matter is somewhat mixed. So many different opinions, some changed minds, I ask: is this really the best decision Poland's government could have come up with?
Bronis³aw Komorowski said that the decision came about due to the lack of consensus between "mortal enemies", to translate his statement, Tusk said he was worried that it would damage the close ties we have with Serbia and that he still hopes Serbia will be able to look at us as friends and Rados³aw Sikorski claimed that he was worried about the places of worship in Serbia, which of course we share in terms of culture and religion with the Serbs.
They all chose to recognize Kosovo in line with the policies of the US and the "big four", as I have come to call them, of the EU.
On the other hand, Lech Kaczyñski, who used to claim that Poland backs a "free and independent Kosovo" now claims that it has set a dangerous precedent?
The confusion in the government is what makes this whole decision strange.
Then again, most of Poland's people are divided: some are for, some are against, some are ambiguous. I think to conclude, this decision on Kosovo shows strongly how Poland is confused in these new times (both people and government), whether Poland as a nation should stick to its Christian Slavic brothers who it fought common enemies with and suffered together with, or should it stick to the strong Western countries who it now received a great deal of help from to rebuild its economy that suffered under 50 years of communism.
Though Poland is torn between the past and the present, I hope they did the right thing with this choice.
I'm a Pole and I'm ashamed of the decision. Most of the public were against such a move, but politicians did what they usually do - never listened to its own people. This again shows that we do not have any coherent foreign policy but act upon whatever others say or do. Shame!
I only hope that the Serbian people will see the difference between the people of Poland and its government. It's sad, especially considering the tragic history tha our both nations share.
There is a short extract from a Polish news site below.
"The Polish Council of Ministers has acknowledged Kosovo as an independent state.
The recommendation for the recognition was presented by Poland’s Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski. The Ministers decided in favour of recognising Kosovo, despite President Lech Kaczynski’s opposition, who fears a wake of separatism in Europe.
The Cabinet’s decision is supported by more than a half of Poles, a poll by SMG/KRC reveals. As many as 56 percent of the respondents supported the recognition of Kosovo’s independence.
Only 23 percent disapproved of the government’s decision. Twenty one percent of the respondents didn’t have a fixed opinion on the matter."
Tusk is just a Polish Merkel or Sarkozy with American understanding of their national interests. Besides more than 200 years Poland makes everything to harm Russia.
So there's no Serbian guilt (as usual) in the nowadays Polish attitude. It was predictable independantly of what most of the Poles think.
Democracy is just a routine way of keeping state power within the elite. And it does not suppose taking into consideration what people think between the elections.
Joe should not forget that when Poles struggled against communism in 80s hungarians called them lazy polaks who prefer strikes to work and who can easily destroy the beutiful world of socialism.
At the same time serbs gave us a moral support.
"A government that does not do what the majority of its citizens want, is nothing else but a lap dog to foreign interests. The Polish government has sold its soul. Shame.
(Dragan, 26 February 2008 16:49) "
I thought you were talking about Serbia. It gave all its natural assets to uncle Putin for less then half its value. Thats like selling your soul to the devil.
WOW! I am very impressed by Donald Tusk's brave move. After all the Serbian intimidations and burning of embassies I thought this recognition will not happen for few months. This shows clairly that Poland is a big country and can not be intimidated like some of the smaller ex-communist countries.
I congratulate Kosova, Poland and also Peter Sudejka, who is fond of Donald Tusk.
thanks to you poland
you been allways against represion of communism.
you have the same story with russians
now you are perfect country,just because you choose eu and not russia
serbs have to take example from poland
I guess Blackmail has Prevailed in Europe. NATO has achieved in breaking up the European Nations. It is now everyman for himself.
Looks like the EU will be added as another American State.
Serbia will recognize Danzig and the corridor at the first opportunity. The Poles have proven their worth by changing their communist masters for a new one...Rich or poor, the Serbs will always be free. The past belongs to the faithful, the future to the courageous!
Poland and all Eu will regognize Kosova. How many Billions of Dollars have Poland received from EU? They have to follow what EU main gangs say. No question about this issue. In ALbania we are about 30-32 percent Christians and the rest is Sunny Muslym. In ALbania religion was shot down for 4 years and at this time there are churches and mosques in every single neighboor. Albanians respect christianity and islamic religion. We are uniq country in the world where people of all religions live in armony with each other. I like to see the same thing to happen in Kosova. If those churches where Albanian churches i can guarantee that none of them was going to get burned. No church was ever burn in democratic albania.
Peace to peaople of all religion.There is only one god and that is UNIVERSE.
So it seems that in principle Sikorski agrees with independence. His only problem is that, according to him, majority of K-Albanians are "muslim wahhabis that speak arabic".
In other words it will take only to prove to people like Sikorski that Albanians are NOT what he claims to be.
K-Albanians already have proved this to most of the countries, it will be a piece of cake to prove it to Sikorski. Although I doubt that people like him are capable of understanding.
Thank you Poland. You always were the flagship of Eastern Europe in the fight against repression from communism.
A government that does not do what the majority of its citizens want, is nothing else but a lap dog to foreign interests. The Polish government has sold its soul. Shame.
Srbija !
Poland apologizes for our prime-minister Tusk.
He`s stupid.
About 85% people in Poland is against "Islamic Mafia Republic of Kosovo" recognizing!
Greetz from Poland!
Srbija !
Poland apologizes for our prime-minister Tusk.
He`s stupid.
About 85% people in Poland is against "Islamic Mafia Republic of Kosovo" recognizing!
Greetz from Poland!
Serbia will recognize Danzig and the corridor at the first opportunity. The Poles have proven their worth by changing their communist masters for a new one...Rich or poor, the Serbs will always be free. The past belongs to the faithful, the future to the courageous!
I'm a Pole and I'm ashamed of the decision. Most of the public were against such a move, but politicians did what they usually do - never listened to its own people. This again shows that we do not have any coherent foreign policy but act upon whatever others say or do. Shame!
I only hope that the Serbian people will see the difference between the people of Poland and its government. It's sad, especially considering the tragic history tha our both nations share.
A government that does not do what the majority of its citizens want, is nothing else but a lap dog to foreign interests. The Polish government has sold its soul. Shame.
My Serbian Brohers: I write in the name of a lot Polish citizens. We were, we are and we will be against splitting Serbia into pieces. Our "goverment" doesn't show the will of most of Polish People. Please, tell your friends that we are your brothers, not traitors. KOSOVO JE SRBJA!
I guess Blackmail has Prevailed in Europe. NATO has achieved in breaking up the European Nations. It is now everyman for himself.
Looks like the EU will be added as another American State.
"Prime Minister Donald Tusk and Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski have decided to stand with their key allies, the U.S., and those countries within the EU who advocate Kosovo' independence, the Polish media report."
Hmm, maybe this should read as "Prime Minister Donald Tusk and Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski have accepted the large bribe/extortion sum from the US State Department in order to be seen as standing with their key allies." Why does Poland, or anyone else for that matter need to "recognize" Kosovo Province's unliateral declaration of dependence on the West? Recognizing a glorified colony at this point, after US, British, and German propping, is only diminishing returns.
Joe should not forget that when Poles struggled against communism in 80s hungarians called them lazy polaks who prefer strikes to work and who can easily destroy the beutiful world of socialism.
At the same time serbs gave us a moral support.
Tusk is just a Polish Merkel or Sarkozy with American understanding of their national interests. Besides more than 200 years Poland makes everything to harm Russia.
So there's no Serbian guilt (as usual) in the nowadays Polish attitude. It was predictable independantly of what most of the Poles think.
Democracy is just a routine way of keeping state power within the elite. And it does not suppose taking into consideration what people think between the elections.
POLAND such a shame!!! How can you recognize this illegal state supported by US and other creasy politicians from EU? You all have forgotten the past the 2nd WW and the US policy in Iraq, Palestine etc. All pragmatic European please wake up!!
Overwhalming mayority of Polse are AGAINST KOSOVO INDEPANDANCE!!! 75% of Poles suppots you Serbija! Our gov'ment made this decission against our will!!!
Just look on our prime minister's name - Donald. Is this slavic name?? He makes me laugh...
Late last week, papers in Warsaw quoted high officials as saying, "despite everything, we'll swallow that frog", and adding that the Kosovo recognition will happen as "there is no other way out", in bids to "harmonize the approach with the U.S. and EU".
Yes, there is a "way out"! You could could grow a pair and make decisions based on morality + law + common sense & justice instead of just pleasing your masters. I have a question; the majority of poles are against K-indy yet the "democratic" government of Poland goes contrary to their wishes. How come so many "democratic" countries don't represent the "will of their people" yet so called "authoritarian" governments like Russia represent the majority will of their people? I guess you can call a sows ear a silk purse but it don't make it so!
There is a short extract from a Polish news site below.
"The Polish Council of Ministers has acknowledged Kosovo as an independent state.
The recommendation for the recognition was presented by Poland’s Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski. The Ministers decided in favour of recognising Kosovo, despite President Lech Kaczynski’s opposition, who fears a wake of separatism in Europe.
The Cabinet’s decision is supported by more than a half of Poles, a poll by SMG/KRC reveals. As many as 56 percent of the respondents supported the recognition of Kosovo’s independence.
Only 23 percent disapproved of the government’s decision. Twenty one percent of the respondents didn’t have a fixed opinion on the matter."
at Maks/ Toni
you should know that forums of Polish newspapers are full of outraged commentaries about this decision. Even the people supporting this govermt. feel ashemed. I have a strange feeling also that the medias in PL manipulate the sondages: 2 opinion polls showing either 65 or 82% of population being against to acknolegement of so-colled independet Kosovo disappeared immiedately, today TV came out with this sondage which apparatelly shows 56% of support. It is just beyond any believe if you have ever seen the discussions on net or among your friends etc. Maybe this is the reason some of us are trying to send a message to Serbia through B92. Anyway I think that blindly following of the politic of this US administration in this case will bring nothing good for Balkans and Europe. What is the real reason for creation of the second Albanian state in Europe?
Are you suggesting that Poles are posting responses to articles on the B92 site are actually Serbs pretending to be Poles? You must be aware that the way the USA forced Kosovo's separation from Serbia has consequences that go beyond the Balkans. People all over the world, including yours truly, are bothered by the way emperor Bush is handling foreign affairs. So why should the Poles on this forum not be real Poles unhappy with the way George Walker Bush keeps the Polish government on a leash?
WOW! I am very impressed by Donald Tusk's brave move. After all the Serbian intimidations and burning of embassies I thought this recognition will not happen for few months. This shows clairly that Poland is a big country and can not be intimidated like some of the smaller ex-communist countries.
I congratulate Kosova, Poland and also Peter Sudejka, who is fond of Donald Tusk.
What a very 'smart' move by the Polish government. First was the missiles and now this. I'm sure the Russians are really impressed. What the hell was Tusk thinking of. What Poland needs good neighbourly relations with Russia.
so far, more countries have rejected the UDI than accepted.
After this, why would any country give its minority (if it has a sizable one)autonomony when it will just lead to a unilateral declaration for indepenance?
This process has damaged the rights of minorities everywhere.
I wonder if Polish goverment
will recognize independent Palistine once it is declared.Will Donald and his buddies be consequent and do it or politically correct and turn it down.By the way 2 more polish soldiers killed in afganistan today.What are we doing there?Are we not supposed to protect our serb brothers who have never betrayed us during history.
Poles Do you remember 100 Polish shot for every german soldier rule which applied only to us and serbs during ww2 while fathers of UCK members served in ss skanderbeg division?
Just want to let all the Serbs know, that what is government in Poland doing on the international arena is to very small extent an image of what nation thinks.
I have no idea how this issue will be resolved, but what have K-Albanians done is a very big mistake. I wish both sides all the best but the situation is very problematic and recently no one has any reasonable idea what to do. Impact of K-Albanians decission may be really tragic.
Once again I want to highlight:
what is government in Poland doing on the international arena, reflects to very small extent nation's mood.
We are all people ... some of us understand who Slavians are ... and there is justice. Sometimes it is just a matter of time.
Very good remark.Kacsor(Duck)Kaczynski followed by Donald Duck.Does it mean that we will be governed by ducks forever?Quack quack quack.It does not sound good.
This must be changed.
My opinion of the matter is somewhat mixed. So many different opinions, some changed minds, I ask: is this really the best decision Poland's government could have come up with?
Bronis³aw Komorowski said that the decision came about due to the lack of consensus between "mortal enemies", to translate his statement, Tusk said he was worried that it would damage the close ties we have with Serbia and that he still hopes Serbia will be able to look at us as friends and Rados³aw Sikorski claimed that he was worried about the places of worship in Serbia, which of course we share in terms of culture and religion with the Serbs.
They all chose to recognize Kosovo in line with the policies of the US and the "big four", as I have come to call them, of the EU.
On the other hand, Lech Kaczyñski, who used to claim that Poland backs a "free and independent Kosovo" now claims that it has set a dangerous precedent?
The confusion in the government is what makes this whole decision strange.
Then again, most of Poland's people are divided: some are for, some are against, some are ambiguous. I think to conclude, this decision on Kosovo shows strongly how Poland is confused in these new times (both people and government), whether Poland as a nation should stick to its Christian Slavic brothers who it fought common enemies with and suffered together with, or should it stick to the strong Western countries who it now received a great deal of help from to rebuild its economy that suffered under 50 years of communism.
Though Poland is torn between the past and the present, I hope they did the right thing with this choice.
Kosova is piling up recognition every day and they just keep coming. Time is in our side, the longer Kosova is here, the more the world supports Kosova.
Don't pretend that you Serbs are getting suprised from such a move that Poland did today in recognizing independence of Kosova. As you see that Poland proved themselves that they support self determination and oppose oppresion of other human beings. And this reflects Poland vision of having a being a stabilizing factor in the Democratic europe.
So it seems that in principle Sikorski agrees with independence. His only problem is that, according to him, majority of K-Albanians are "muslim wahhabis that speak arabic".
In other words it will take only to prove to people like Sikorski that Albanians are NOT what he claims to be.
K-Albanians already have proved this to most of the countries, it will be a piece of cake to prove it to Sikorski. Although I doubt that people like him are capable of understanding.
Thank you Poland. You always were the flagship of Eastern Europe in the fight against repression from communism.
Thank you Poland! The rest of the countries, please keep them coming!
--
You see lots of countries have their own secessionist problems. Take Turkey for example, it has recognised Kosovo and is now fighting a war with its secessionists!
I think other countries would prefer to avoid conflict! Turkey has not set a good example.
Poland and all Eu will regognize Kosova. How many Billions of Dollars have Poland received from EU? They have to follow what EU main gangs say. No question about this issue. In ALbania we are about 30-32 percent Christians and the rest is Sunny Muslym. In ALbania religion was shot down for 4 years and at this time there are churches and mosques in every single neighboor. Albanians respect christianity and islamic religion. We are uniq country in the world where people of all religions live in armony with each other. I like to see the same thing to happen in Kosova. If those churches where Albanian churches i can guarantee that none of them was going to get burned. No church was ever burn in democratic albania.
Peace to peaople of all religion.There is only one god and that is UNIVERSE.
thanks to you poland
you been allways against represion of communism.
you have the same story with russians
now you are perfect country,just because you choose eu and not russia
serbs have to take example from poland
The Oil factor in Kosovo independence - this will help you understand
February 24, 2008
On February 17, Kosovo broke away from Serbia and declared its independence. Not surprisingly it was instantly recognized as a state by the U.S., Germany, Britain and France. With 4203 square miles area, Kosovo may be a tiny territory but in the great game of oil politics it holds great importance which is in inverse proportion to its size.
Kosovo does not have oil but its location is strategic as the trans-Balkan pipeline - known as AMBO pipeline after its builder and operator the US-registered Albanian Macedonian Bulgarian Oil Corporation - will pass through it.
The pipeline will pump Caspian oil from the Bulgarian port of Burgas via Macedonia to the Albanian port of Vlora, for transport to European countries and the United States. Specifically, the 1.1 billion dollar AMBO pipeline will permit oil companies operating in the Caspian Sea to ship their oil to Rotterdam and the East Coast of the USA at substantially less cost than they are experiencing today.
When operational by 2011, the pipeline will become a part of the region's critical East-West corridor infrastructure which includes highway, railway, gas and fiber optic telecommunications lines. This pipeline will bring oil directly to the European market by eliminating tanker traffic through the ecologically sensitive waters of the Aegean and Mediterranean Seas.
In 2000, the United States Government’s Trade and Development Agency financed a feasibility study of pipeline which updated and enlarged the project's original feasibility study dating from early 1996. Brown & Root Energy Services, a wholly-owned British subsidiary of Halliburton completed the original feasibility study for this project.
The US Trade and Development Agency's paper published May 2000, which assesses that the pipeline is a US strategic interest. According to the paper, the pipeline will provide oil and gas to the US market worth $600m a month, adding that the pipeline is necessary because the oil coming from the Caspian sea will quickly surpass the safe capacity of the Bosphorus.
The project is necessary, according to a paper, because the oil coming from the Caspian sea "will quickly surpass the safe capacity of the Bosphorus as a shipping lane". The scheme, the agency notes, will "provide a consistent source of crude oil to American refineries", "provide American companies with a key role in developing the vital east-west corridor", "advance the privatisation aspirations of the US government in the region" and "facilitate rapid integration" of the Balkans "with western Europe".
The pipeline itself, the agency says, has also been formally supported "since 1994". The first feasibility study, backed by the US, was conducted in 1996.
In November 1998, Bill Richardson, the then US energy secretary, spelt out his policy on the extraction and transport of Caspian oil. "This is about America's energy security," he explained. "It's also about preventing strategic inroads by those who don't share our values. We're trying to move these newly independent countries toward the west.
"We would like to see them reliant on western commercial and political interests rather than going another way. We've made a substantial political investment in the Caspian, and it's very important to us that both the pipeline map and the politics come out right."
Professor Michel Chossudovsky, author of America at War in Macedonia, provides a deep insight into the Albanian-Macedonian-Bulgarian-Oil Pipeline project:
"The US based AMBO pipeline consortium is directly linked to the seat of political and military power in the United States and Vice President Dick Cheney's firm Halliburton Energy. The feasibility study for AMBO's Trans-Balkan Oil Pipeline, conducted by the international engineering company of Brown & Root Ltd. [Halliburton's British subsidiary] has determined that this pipeline will become a part of the region's critical East-West corridor infrastructure which includes highway, railway, gas and fibre optic telecommunications lines.
"Coincidentally, White and Case LLT, the New York law firm that President William J. Clinton joined when he left the White House also has a stake in the AMBO pipeline deal.
"And upon completion of the feasibility study by Halliburton, a senior executive of Halliburton was appointed CEO of AMBO. Halliburton was also granted a contract to service US troops in the Balkans and build "Bondsteel" in Kosovo, which now constitutes "the largest American foreign military base constructed since Vietnam".
"The AMBO Trans-Balkans pipeline project would link up with the pipeline corridors between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea basin, which lies at the hub of the World's largest unexplored oil reserves. The militarization of these various corridors is an integral part of Washington's design.
"The US policy of "protecting the pipeline routes" out of the Caspian Sea basin (and across the Balkans) was spelled out by Clinton's Energy Secretary Bill Richardson barely a few months prior to the 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia: This is about America's energy security. It's also about preventing strategic inroads by those who don't share our values. We're trying to move these newly independent countries toward the west. We would like to see them reliant on western commercial and political interests rather than going another way. We've made a substantial political investment in the Caspian, and it's very important to us that both the pipeline map and the politics come out right.
"In favour of the AMBO pipeline negotiations, the U.S. Government has been directly supportive through its Trade and Development Agency (TDA) and the South Balkan Development Initiative (SBDI). The TDI suggested the need for Albania, Macedonia, and Bulgaria to "use regional synergies to leverage new public and private capital [from U.S. companies]" while also asserting responsibility of the U.S. Government "for implementing the initiative."
And the U.S. Government has fulfilled its role in promoting the AMBO project, granting several contracts to Halliburton for servicing U.S. troops in the Balkans, including a five year contract authorized in June of 2005 by the U.S. Army at a value of $1.25 billion, despite criminal allegations made against Halliburton that are currently being probed by the F.B.I., according to Craig A. Brannagan author of On the Political Executive: Public or Private?
This leaves little doubt that the war in the former Yugoslavia was fought solely in order to secure access to oil from new and biddable states in central Asia. It is obvious that the former Yugoslavia, especially Serbia, was a serious problem for the realization of the plan. The intervention in Kosovo and Metohija was carried out in order to please Albania, whose port of Vlore is the ultimate destination of the pipeline.
In 1998, fighting breaks out between Serbian forces and ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. President Milosevic sends in troops, and atrocities were committed. This opens the door for NATO’s Operation Allied Force, occupying Kosovo in 1999 and then handing it over to the UN, with a huge American presence in the area. UN resolution 1244 is drafted stipulating that Kosovo is Serbian land, and at the same time gives Kosovars governance autonomy.
June 1999, in the immediate aftermath of the bombing of Yugoslavia, US forces seized 1,000 acres of farmland in southeast Kosovo at Uresevic, near the Macedonian border, and began the construction of Camp Bondsteel which is the biggest construction project of a US military base since the war in Vietnam. Now, why would the United States build such a massive camp in Kosovo?
In evaluating Kosovo’s independence, it is also important to know that Kosovo is not gaining independence or even minimal self-government.
It will be run by an appointed High Representative and bodies appointed by the U.S., European Union and NATO. An old-style colonial viceroy and imperialist administrators will have control over foreign and domestic policy. It is similar to the absolute power held by L. Paul Bremer in the first two years of the U.S. occupation of Iraq. U.S. has merely consolidated its direct control of a totally dependent colony in the heart of the Balkans.
An International Civilian Representative (ICR) will be appointed by U.S. and E.U. officials to oversee Kosovo. This appointed official can overrule any measures, annul any laws and remove anyone from office in Kosovo. The ICR will have full and final control over the departments of Customs, Taxation, Treasury and Banking.
The E.U. will establish a European Security and Defense Policy Mission (ESDP) and NATO will establish an International Military Presence. Both these appointed bodies will have control over foreign policy, security, police, judiciary, all courts and prisons.
These bodies and the ICR will have final say over what crimes can be prosecuted and against whom; they can reverse or annul any decision made. The largest prison in Kosovo is at the U.S. base, Camp Bondsteel, where prisoners are held without charges, judicial overview or representation.
US has argued the case of Kosovo is unique and that separatists in other states in Europe and the Balkans will not receive aid and welcome from major powers. "It is incorrect to view this as a precedent and it doesn't serve any purpose to view it as a precedent," said Alejandro Wolff, US deputy permanent representative to the UN. He may be right because other separatists may not have any attraction for the oil giants.
I am from Poland and I am ashamed because of decision of our government. One poster quoted ere a poll - here are another one
http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/9,80269,4963952.html
Question: Should Poland recognise Kosovo?
26% Yes
24% No, not now
45% No, never
5% I don't care/don't know
In first comment GW said that "majority of Poles support independence of Kosovo", despite that clearly 66% of voters was against. I suspect it was the same with the IMG poll.
I am not Pole, but Rumanian.
Just to make it clear from the beginning: I support my country decision not to recognize Kosovo UDI (I emphasize: UDI, meaning not officially sanctioned through UN).
However, I do not consider myself entitled to give advice to Poles how to deal with the issue (as much as I am not accepting advice from anybody regarding how Romanians should deal with the same issue...).
Poland is a big country (I was there visiting, job&business related, couple times), with great potential, and I am sure that Warsaw politicians are always concerned with the best for their citizens.
I want just to make a comment, based on my three years spent in Kosovo, working for UNMIK: the conflict has nothing to do with religion, at least from the perspective of Albanians (also, Serbs from Kosovo told me the same: it was all about what ethnic group will be the dominant one, therefore a fight for political supremacy).
The Albanians are Muslims, but their Islam is so 'light' that it has no connection whatsoever with Wahhabism etc. I dare to say that their attitude towards religion mirrors the Romanians' one: we also consider religion (in our case, Orthodox Christianity) as part of national tradition, but not as something fundamental for "being Romanian". Maybe this is the effect of 50 years of Communism, or has to do with the fact that Ottoman Empire simply retained suzerainty over Romanian territories but never occupied it or colonized (no villayet, no provinces, only client regimes, paying tribute to Istanbul) - I don't know for sure, this is for historians to explain. So, I have noticed that Albanians are indeed very proud of their history and culture (of which religion is a part) but they are not fundamentalists, no way... Also, I don’t know if their position is natural, or has to do with the need to retain US and Western Europe support – to me, it looked quite natural attitude.
Of course, any society has extremists - I have seen in Kosovo (Mitrovica, Vushtrri/Vucitrn, Skenderaj/Srbica) some people wearing Islamic clothes (man with short pants, women with veil) but they are just a few ad are regarded as 'crazy people' (I was told they are getting paid by some Saudi-sponsored charity organization, only to do this...). We also have people in Romania, Jehova Witnesses, engaged in aggressive propaganda, and even Orthodox clerics very engaged in criticizing sects, Adventists etc. But this kind of bigotry is just something isolated.
Hope my comments will offend no one, if so, my apologies, is only what I have seen with my own eyes :)
Regards from Bucharest,
George
PS: I use this opportunity to answer (very late indeed) to an Albanian poster, who was suggesting somewhere on this forum that Romania's position regarding Kosovo UDI is connected with religion. Well, it is not. Most of Rumanians don't care about their religion too much, why they should care about Kosovo Albanians religion? Also, the fact that on the Kosovo issue we are siding with Serbia and international law has nothing to do with the fact that we and Serbs are Orthodox Christians... We should agree that the times when international alliances were concluded based on religion are only memories...
K-Albanians fought for their freedom not only with Serbia but above all Russia and the Slavic universe.
It is strange that the main "pundits" in International Law who fear the "precedent" are Slavic nations, and unfortunately it seams that they are compact and step back only because of their national economic interests. The moral values of defending the human and national rights of the repressed Kosovars is just something that they do not consider, in contrast with the western progressivism.
I'm a Pole and the decision of my government isn’t in my name. I and many of my friends are ashamed of this decision. Many people are interested in this issue in Poland and all of them shared Serbs view. Our politicians are conformists without the honors but the ordinary men are with you.
I am greeting and I am apologizing for my government.
One day the Western world will look back and regret this tragic mistake. The torjan horse has been inplanted in Europe now. During this dark time, Serbia will truly see who their real friends are, unfortunately, Poland has proven they aren't one of them.
"A government that does not do what the majority of its citizens want, is nothing else but a lap dog to foreign interests. The Polish government has sold its soul. Shame.
(Dragan, 26 February 2008 16:49) "
I thought you were talking about Serbia. It gave all its natural assets to uncle Putin for less then half its value. Thats like selling your soul to the devil.
Srbija !
Poland apologizes for our prime-minister Tusk.
He`s stupid.
…
Greetz from Poland!
(Tifo PL, 26 February 2008 16:16)
I'm a Pole and I'm ashamed of the decision. …. Shame!
….
(maciek, 26 February 2008 17:40)
Most of us (Polish) think that our gov made a mistake!
(Pawel from Poland, 26 February 2008 18:17)
What a joke! It looks like all “Poles” are so interested in Kosovo Independence and for even more, “they” are so sad for Serbia loosing 8.11% of its territory (sorry "15.5%" of its territory ?????????), also they cannot hide how much “ashamed“ they are with their own government.
Harm Russia??? How is Katyn; partitions; hundreds of years of Russification; slave labor in gulags; Soviet invasions of 1919, 1939 and 1956; leaving our partizans to die like dogs in 1944; suppression of our inteligencja and culture; torture, deportation and murder of our partizans after WW2 and recent Russian behavior (meat ban, gas pipe etc.) in any way better than Poland apparently trying to harm Russia for 200 years???
Even my family has been touched by Soviet brutality, my grandfather was tortured for being a member of the AK (Armia Krajowa) by Soviet troops after WW2, I would like to hear of instances when Poles actually "harmed" Russians in any way like they ever harmed us! They want to talk about International Law, let them look at how they administered it towards us.
Mike says…“This leaves little doubt that the war in the former Yugoslavia was fought solely in order to secure access to oil from new and biddable states in central Asia."
I agree. I have learned through my many years on this earth that situations are seldom as they appear; it is not the behavior but the reason for the behavior that is important.
That being said, please find the following that I posted 9/17/07…
“The US is motivated by oil and they are using NATO to achieve their goals.
Quoting from a piece I read...
"Clinton's Energy Secretary Bill Richardson spelled out America’s Balkan policy a few months prior to the 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia:
"This is about America's energy security… It's also about preventing strategic inroads by those who don't share our values. We're trying to move these newly independent countries toward the West… We would like to see them reliant on western commercial and political interests rather than going another way. We've made a substantial political investment in the Caspian, and it's very important to us that both the pipeline map and the politics come out right."
In 2004, we read the pipeline will be built by the US-registered Albanian Macedonian Bulgarian Oil Corporation (AMBO).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4130271.stm
It is clear why there is interest in the Balkans, and it is not humanitarian.
Encouraging division of the countries throughout Europe so as to "divide and conquer", have them join NATO and then make them reliant on the West is the motive.
The Russians know exactly what the US is doing.
Unfortunately, the people of the Balkans are the ones who are paying for it.
(Roger7, 17 September 2007 20:38)”
The attached links offer more information.
As I said in September, the Russians were well aware and obviously took advantage of the situation.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/IE16Ag01.html
http://www.upi.com/International_Security/Energy/Analysis/2008/02/05/analysis_europes_pipeline_war/2456/
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/22/europe/energy.php
Ahmet Isufi and the other Albanian posters who claim that the people who say they are Polish are not, I say, Please don't make statements like that if you are not in a position to back them up with proof.
Every time someone disagrees with you or sides with Serbs you automatically yell "they are Serbs pretending to be so and so". Is is that hard to believe that there are people out there who actually do agree with Serbs and support the Serbs?
Again, you only look desperate when you accuse people of lying and you can't probe it.
and it would be a shame if the Polish people were blamed for the recognition of Kosovo.
(Peter Sudyka, 27 February 2008 20:29)
Peter,
The blame game is a fumy one isn’t it.
Looking at the pro-Serb postings it seems that every nation that supports Kosovo independence is the enemy and to blame for the “injustice” caused to Serbia.
Well, the only people to blame are actually the Serbian government.
It is very easy to look for enemies outside but the real enemy of Serbia is their own government.
We (Kosovars) don’t treat Romanians as enemies just because they are not prepared to accept Kosovo as a state.
It is Romania’s right to recognize or not any state.
With Serbia is: ether you are with me or against me.
George the Romanian.
I am happy that you saw the real Kosovo.
I am also happy that you wrote exactly what you saw.
I truly respect that.
I would love to have more people go to Kosovo and see the same.
You have hopefully noticed one thing.
It is the pro-Serbian camp that tries to give Kosovo a religious nature.
The same happened in Bosnia. Weirdly enough they did not use the same propaganda with Croatia (I wonder why??).
I have highlighted in my previous comments that I respect Romania’s stance in regards to Kosovo recognition.
We Kosovo Albanians owe a lot to Romania for their actions in 1999.
It was Romania that did not allow Russian army to fly over Romania to reach Prishtina (after it was seized by Russian troops). We are grateful for that.
We also know that the reason for Non recognition is not religiously motivated.
You never know, after a while Romania might opt to recognize us. We can wait.
I have mixed reactions to the government's decision, I already said why, but in a nutshell, it is good that they opt for a more-or-less unified approach dedicated to promoting peace in the Balkans, on the other hand it is bad that they take the side over the West by default and forget about a country that they have much in common with historically, culturally, linguistically and religiously, traditionally had good relations with and suffered the same fates as they did.
I think most Poles have got mixed opinions about this.
Blero
Indeed I am surprized to see so many Polish people posting here, I remember it was only me and another guy called zbyszek. Perhaps this is one guy that is posting under several names/has his friends to post also, but it could well also be that some Poles have joined here since the reality of the Kosovo independence hit them, because I before the independence there was very little about Kosovo in the media. Here where I work nobody knew what was going on until February 19th.
BTW Chopin is a great vodka. I also recommend Belvedere, this is my favorite, or Sobieski if you are a bit short on cash from too many heavy drinking nights before.
What is the real reason for creation of the second Albanian state in Europe?
(Wojciech/Poznan, 26 February 2008 23:40)
It's a pretty simple reason, it stabilizes the region, because the will of the majority of the people that live in Kosovo is respected. It was a really really strong will. And if you start asking yourself why people want something that strong, you will get closer to some understanding. Things like that don't just pop out of nowhere. Albanians will tell you that they suffered under Serbia, that they asked for their rights peacefully at first and will remind you about 1998-1999 and will tell you that they see no good future under Serbia. As for the Serbs, judging from the comments I read on this site, they won't ask themselves why Albanians want to be independent or they will give you fantastic answers. There is a really high chance that the most of the Serbs commenting here don't reflect the general opinion in Serbia though.
It would be really interesting to see the results of a poll among the Serbs with the question "why do you think Albanians wanted independence?"
And a poll among the Albanians of Kosovo: "Do you think the Serbs should stay in Kosovo and the refugees return?"
For the will of the Serbs of Kosovo, if they don't want to cooperate, let them go, everybody on its own, let it be partitioned. Or pretend it is not partitioned, but actually let it happen(like it has been in the last years actually). Partition is really sad, but it would be a solution, if they don't want to cooperate with EU and Albanians.
Just a personal opinion.
To all the Polish posting opinions on behalf of Poland:
Please, if you wish to put a comment on your name do so.
Do not pretend that you represent Poland.
I say this because I know personally hundreds of Poles that disagree with you.
Peter Sudyka,
You know that, though I have disagreed with few of your comments I respect your views.
I know that in the beginning your opinion was much more pro-Serbian however with time I believe that you have tried to be more unbiased.
I believe that you learned one very important lesson today (therefore your response to СМЕРШ).
As soon as Poland opted to recognise Kosovo, the pro-Serbian camp started with their standard offensive comments.
One thing that astonishes me is that apart from you none of the “Polish that speak for Poland” reacted to this kind of insults.
Makes you think, doesn’t it Peter: Who are these Polish that are happy to apologise to Serbs for their governments actions but have no nerve to defend Poland.
Also Peter, you know yourself that for over 6 months it was only you (and I believe one more Polish whose name I forgot) in this forum from the Polish side.
Suddenly we have an “invasion” of Poles in this forum.
Also every single one of them uses phrases “Kosovo is Serbia” or “Kosovo is province”.
Not very Polish don’t you think.
Do you believe that they just found out that B92 exists?
P.S.
I will be visiting Poland soon and thank the Polish people for their support.
I am taking with me a bottle of Kosovo Grappa (Raki Rrushi).
From their side the Polish side have promised a bottle of Chopin Vodka.
@Wojciech/Poznan
I am from Poznan too! Dok³adniej rzecz bior¹c, z Rataj.
I can't speak for others, but here are my answers for your doubts:
1) I find those page because the link was posted in one of polish forum. In Gazeta Wyborcza, to be precise.
2) How can I answer to those Serbs who are angry with our recognition? I simply have no heart to defend, since I deeply feel that my government did something which is really shameful.
3) The phrases "Kosovo is Serbia" is simply a catchphrase which is copied. I don't know Serbian, but I used several times phrase "Kosovo je srce Srbije" (And i hope it means "Kosowo jest sercem Serbii") just because it's a slogan, a catchphrase.
ANyway, just go to forum in gazeta wyborcza (if you are Polish then you will find it easily) and read through the comments. I think 3/4 of people discussing are pro-Serbian. There are some anti-Serbian, and some who don't care, but I have impression that they are in minority.
Kosowo jest Serbskie!
Remember my friend, the government took the decision, not the average person and it is sad to hear that the Serbs do not view us as friends anymore, but I am sure when I say this even those Poles who viewed independence as the only solution to end the problems in the Balkans feel a great deal of empathy towards Serbia, as I do, taking into account what our peoples have gone through. Now probably we will be seeing our flags burning in the streets of Mitrovica, Belgrade etc., and it would be a shame if the Polish people were blamed for the recognition of Kosovo.
Blero
I almost forgot to mention, the best of the herbal vodkas (you mention ¯ubrówka, which is good) is ¯o³¹dkowa Gorzka. If you can get this, you will not regret it. This is the best for medicinal purposes and cultured drinking. Of the Balkan alcohols I know little, however I have tried slivovica and raki, after both of which I was rather happy, hehe.
Ahmet/blero
You can believe or not in the authenticity of opinions coming from PL appearing at this forum. I have no means to convince you except as to welcome you to visit www.onet.pl or www.gazeta.pl. I assume that knowing Serbian, provided you have attended state run schools in Kosovo (what might be the case when you even know what soviet Smersh was), you would probably able to understand contend and scale of discussion there. I`m aware of the fact that this is only a voice of the public, politicians are influenced by other factors: if you only consider that PL is already about to conclude a military agreement with USA, there you will find the answer where the all pressure to recognize Kosovo comes from… Even the PM was quite straight in the yesterday’s interview saying that PL has been put in the situation where “our partners put us under tremendous pressure, forcing us to take a clear stand, either in one camp with Russia or with Western countries”. I write this all here not because PL is such an important country, rather because in effect of this illegal act it became “the first Slavic country recognizing Kosovo”. This fact is not without meaning in the medial campaign against Serbia, I guess…
Shqarti
I have personally nothing against nations seeking for freedom, and I do not certainly have anything against Albanians as a nation. For a long time I have admired Rughova as a personality, type of “Kosovo- Walesa”, fighting Milosevic regime with peacefully means and calling for reconciliation with Serbs at the same time. However, today situation is completely different: Serbia became a democracy and behind “self-determination of Kosovo” stands UCK, a terroristic organization with obscure mafia relation, which literally black-mailed the whole world to recognize eventually the status quo created by means of terror and ethnic cleaning. If you ask me I would say there are plenty of other nations in Europe, like Catalons or Flams, which deserved the independence through a hard work and respect gained in a peacefully way. Finally, why Serbia should be treated as a state of a second range? Territorial integrity seems to be guaranteed by the UN-Charta, why this primary rule of International law should not be binding in case of Serbia? Only because some powerful politicians in Washington or Berlin have their own ideas how the world should look like? The last sentence does not mean at all that I admire Russia for that it is doing (or better to say pretends to do) for Serbia. The fact is that RUS will do nothing except of some noise, and at the end of the day bill Serbia excessively high (taking control of energy sector). They practiced this already in Belarus. In change Serbs will maybe get “Putin`s version of democracy”, what heaven forbid! The sad conclusion is that Serbia does not have at the moment comfortable situation. Therefore I support that Polish PM recently said: the EU should stop to irritate Serbia, and start to think about some kind of “compensation” for Serbia .
I have been posting coments on b92 web site for about a year now , and I do not recall any POLES posting coments before. Al of suden so many Poles or I should say people pretending to be Polish have posted coments.
Next countries following Poland is/are: Chek Republic, Switzerland among many others.
The first round of recognition will end Friday and next week(March) the second round will start.Things are looking up for Kosova.
Sobieski if you are a bit short on cash from too many heavy drinking nights before.
(Peter Sudyka, 27 February 2008 13:29)
Thanks Peter,
Sobieski is ok (actually quite good) however I have found that ¯ubrowka is the medicine for the day after.
And yes, you are right. Belvedere Vodka is good (especially ice cold).
You forgot to put this:
Switzerland on Wednesday recognised Kosovo as an independent state and declared it will soon establish diplomatic and consular ties.
So much for Slavic unity.Ha, Ha, Ha. I knew the Poles would eventualy come around. How do you feel now Mr. Peter S. ?Now if we get all the slavic countries to do the same before Serbia gets hit with the Islamic nations recognitions in the third round.
Hi. I think that one has to say two things: on one hand from the legalistic point of view, this independence is simply illegal, it's clear.
Now, from the realistic point of view, you cannot govern a province inhabited in 95% by so different people (language, history, religion, habits) who so much don't want you to govern them, and in addition as your country has shown that the army is able to raze hundreds of thousands from their households, or close universities or inducing unemployment. That's why in my opinion, Poland did a right move, recognizing just the reality. True that it's painful, and true that there are conflicting arguments. Also I think that in Poland there is a genuine feeling of sorrow about that.But that's how it is. It is also a pity that Serbian position has been not realistic during the negotiations.
What I personally hope is that your country will be able to extend your sovereignty in the north Kosovo, and also hope that one day you will unite with Srpska Republika in Bosnia. But only under the peaceful development of things. Maybe than you will celebrate a success.
Blero,
Before you overwhelm Romania with thank you's, don't forget about the Romanian police officers who killed two protesters last year in Prishtina. They escaped justice and fled to Romania.
Wojciech / Poznan,
First, behind self-determination doesn't stand only UCK (which was disbanded years ago), it is all Albanians that stand behind that. UCK was the violent expression of the desire of self-determination, Rugova was the peaceful expression of the same thing. Rugova wasn't heard by anyone, certainly not the Serbian regime. He had the majority of the people behind him and was really loved by the people. In the end of 1996 the overwhelming majority of the Albanians still believed the rumors of the UCK were not real, and that they were provocations from Serbia. The fact that the UCK grew so much in such a short amount of time should tell you how the the Kosovo Albanians were feeling.
The same is happening today, there are different forces inside the Kosovo Albanian society, as there are in any country. Some wish to go forward in a peaceful way, checked in everything they do by the EU (interestingly enough this is Thaci). And some others, that maybe you don't know, because they are still a minority, that want to do things differently. But ALL agree on one point: There can't be a return under Serbia.
I am not saying that you don't like Albanians. I just think that between supporting a people that wants freedom and the fear/dislike/protest of the "imperialistic" US, you choose the second one and sacrifice the first. You say "Only because some powerful politicians in Washington or Berlin have their own ideas how the world should look like?" What matters most to the politicians in Washington or Berlin and most of the EU nations is business. And the first thing to get to that is stability. I have nothing against business, or the ideas of how the world should look like of the politicians in US and Berlin and most of the EU. I think they are good ideas and the proof is the life standards of the people in those countries.
The situation would have been much worse, if nothing had happened, that is the meaning of the phrase: "The status quo is untenable". Whoever sees this as a threat from Albanians is either too naive or is not interested in solving this issue.
Looks the close alliance with the US and the rest of United States Of Europe is more important to Poland than that of international law and regional security.
WOW! I am very impressed by Donald Tusk's brave move. After all the Serbian intimidations and burning of embassies I thought this recognition will not happen for few months. This shows clairly that Poland is a big country and can not be intimidated like some of the smaller ex-communist countries.
I congratulate Kosova, Poland and also Peter Sudejka, who is fond of Donald Tusk.
thanks to you poland
you been allways against represion of communism.
you have the same story with russians
now you are perfect country,just because you choose eu and not russia
serbs have to take example from poland
Poland and all Eu will regognize Kosova. How many Billions of Dollars have Poland received from EU? They have to follow what EU main gangs say. No question about this issue. In ALbania we are about 30-32 percent Christians and the rest is Sunny Muslym. In ALbania religion was shot down for 4 years and at this time there are churches and mosques in every single neighboor. Albanians respect christianity and islamic religion. We are uniq country in the world where people of all religions live in armony with each other. I like to see the same thing to happen in Kosova. If those churches where Albanian churches i can guarantee that none of them was going to get burned. No church was ever burn in democratic albania.
Peace to peaople of all religion.There is only one god and that is UNIVERSE.
Kosova is piling up recognition every day and they just keep coming. Time is in our side, the longer Kosova is here, the more the world supports Kosova.
So it seems that in principle Sikorski agrees with independence. His only problem is that, according to him, majority of K-Albanians are "muslim wahhabis that speak arabic".
In other words it will take only to prove to people like Sikorski that Albanians are NOT what he claims to be.
K-Albanians already have proved this to most of the countries, it will be a piece of cake to prove it to Sikorski. Although I doubt that people like him are capable of understanding.
Thank you Poland. You always were the flagship of Eastern Europe in the fight against repression from communism.
"A government that does not do what the majority of its citizens want, is nothing else but a lap dog to foreign interests. The Polish government has sold its soul. Shame.
(Dragan, 26 February 2008 16:49) "
I thought you were talking about Serbia. It gave all its natural assets to uncle Putin for less then half its value. Thats like selling your soul to the devil.
There is a short extract from a Polish news site below.
"The Polish Council of Ministers has acknowledged Kosovo as an independent state.
The recommendation for the recognition was presented by Poland’s Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski. The Ministers decided in favour of recognising Kosovo, despite President Lech Kaczynski’s opposition, who fears a wake of separatism in Europe.
The Cabinet’s decision is supported by more than a half of Poles, a poll by SMG/KRC reveals. As many as 56 percent of the respondents supported the recognition of Kosovo’s independence.
Only 23 percent disapproved of the government’s decision. Twenty one percent of the respondents didn’t have a fixed opinion on the matter."
Don't pretend that you Serbs are getting suprised from such a move that Poland did today in recognizing independence of Kosova. As you see that Poland proved themselves that they support self determination and oppose oppresion of other human beings. And this reflects Poland vision of having a being a stabilizing factor in the Democratic europe.
Srbija !
Poland apologizes for our prime-minister Tusk.
He`s stupid.
…
Greetz from Poland!
(Tifo PL, 26 February 2008 16:16)
I'm a Pole and I'm ashamed of the decision. …. Shame!
….
(maciek, 26 February 2008 17:40)
Most of us (Polish) think that our gov made a mistake!
(Pawel from Poland, 26 February 2008 18:17)
What a joke! It looks like all “Poles” are so interested in Kosovo Independence and for even more, “they” are so sad for Serbia loosing 8.11% of its territory (sorry "15.5%" of its territory ?????????), also they cannot hide how much “ashamed“ they are with their own government.
K-Albanians fought for their freedom not only with Serbia but above all Russia and the Slavic universe.
It is strange that the main "pundits" in International Law who fear the "precedent" are Slavic nations, and unfortunately it seams that they are compact and step back only because of their national economic interests. The moral values of defending the human and national rights of the repressed Kosovars is just something that they do not consider, in contrast with the western progressivism.
I have been posting coments on b92 web site for about a year now , and I do not recall any POLES posting coments before. Al of suden so many Poles or I should say people pretending to be Polish have posted coments.
Next countries following Poland is/are: Chek Republic, Switzerland among many others.
The first round of recognition will end Friday and next week(March) the second round will start.Things are looking up for Kosova.
Srbija !
Poland apologizes for our prime-minister Tusk.
He`s stupid.
About 85% people in Poland is against "Islamic Mafia Republic of Kosovo" recognizing!
Greetz from Poland!
So much for Slavic unity.Ha, Ha, Ha. I knew the Poles would eventualy come around. How do you feel now Mr. Peter S. ?Now if we get all the slavic countries to do the same before Serbia gets hit with the Islamic nations recognitions in the third round.
Joe should not forget that when Poles struggled against communism in 80s hungarians called them lazy polaks who prefer strikes to work and who can easily destroy the beutiful world of socialism.
At the same time serbs gave us a moral support.
What is the real reason for creation of the second Albanian state in Europe?
(Wojciech/Poznan, 26 February 2008 23:40)
It's a pretty simple reason, it stabilizes the region, because the will of the majority of the people that live in Kosovo is respected. It was a really really strong will. And if you start asking yourself why people want something that strong, you will get closer to some understanding. Things like that don't just pop out of nowhere. Albanians will tell you that they suffered under Serbia, that they asked for their rights peacefully at first and will remind you about 1998-1999 and will tell you that they see no good future under Serbia. As for the Serbs, judging from the comments I read on this site, they won't ask themselves why Albanians want to be independent or they will give you fantastic answers. There is a really high chance that the most of the Serbs commenting here don't reflect the general opinion in Serbia though.
It would be really interesting to see the results of a poll among the Serbs with the question "why do you think Albanians wanted independence?"
And a poll among the Albanians of Kosovo: "Do you think the Serbs should stay in Kosovo and the refugees return?"
For the will of the Serbs of Kosovo, if they don't want to cooperate, let them go, everybody on its own, let it be partitioned. Or pretend it is not partitioned, but actually let it happen(like it has been in the last years actually). Partition is really sad, but it would be a solution, if they don't want to cooperate with EU and Albanians.
Just a personal opinion.
A government that does not do what the majority of its citizens want, is nothing else but a lap dog to foreign interests. The Polish government has sold its soul. Shame.
Tusk is just a Polish Merkel or Sarkozy with American understanding of their national interests. Besides more than 200 years Poland makes everything to harm Russia.
So there's no Serbian guilt (as usual) in the nowadays Polish attitude. It was predictable independantly of what most of the Poles think.
Democracy is just a routine way of keeping state power within the elite. And it does not suppose taking into consideration what people think between the elections.
POLAND such a shame!!! How can you recognize this illegal state supported by US and other creasy politicians from EU? You all have forgotten the past the 2nd WW and the US policy in Iraq, Palestine etc. All pragmatic European please wake up!!
I guess Blackmail has Prevailed in Europe. NATO has achieved in breaking up the European Nations. It is now everyman for himself.
Looks like the EU will be added as another American State.
My opinion of the matter is somewhat mixed. So many different opinions, some changed minds, I ask: is this really the best decision Poland's government could have come up with?
Bronis³aw Komorowski said that the decision came about due to the lack of consensus between "mortal enemies", to translate his statement, Tusk said he was worried that it would damage the close ties we have with Serbia and that he still hopes Serbia will be able to look at us as friends and Rados³aw Sikorski claimed that he was worried about the places of worship in Serbia, which of course we share in terms of culture and religion with the Serbs.
They all chose to recognize Kosovo in line with the policies of the US and the "big four", as I have come to call them, of the EU.
On the other hand, Lech Kaczyñski, who used to claim that Poland backs a "free and independent Kosovo" now claims that it has set a dangerous precedent?
The confusion in the government is what makes this whole decision strange.
Then again, most of Poland's people are divided: some are for, some are against, some are ambiguous. I think to conclude, this decision on Kosovo shows strongly how Poland is confused in these new times (both people and government), whether Poland as a nation should stick to its Christian Slavic brothers who it fought common enemies with and suffered together with, or should it stick to the strong Western countries who it now received a great deal of help from to rebuild its economy that suffered under 50 years of communism.
Though Poland is torn between the past and the present, I hope they did the right thing with this choice.
I'm a Pole and I'm ashamed of the decision. Most of the public were against such a move, but politicians did what they usually do - never listened to its own people. This again shows that we do not have any coherent foreign policy but act upon whatever others say or do. Shame!
I only hope that the Serbian people will see the difference between the people of Poland and its government. It's sad, especially considering the tragic history tha our both nations share.
"Prime Minister Donald Tusk and Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski have decided to stand with their key allies, the U.S., and those countries within the EU who advocate Kosovo' independence, the Polish media report."
Hmm, maybe this should read as "Prime Minister Donald Tusk and Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski have accepted the large bribe/extortion sum from the US State Department in order to be seen as standing with their key allies." Why does Poland, or anyone else for that matter need to "recognize" Kosovo Province's unliateral declaration of dependence on the West? Recognizing a glorified colony at this point, after US, British, and German propping, is only diminishing returns.
Harm Russia??? How is Katyn; partitions; hundreds of years of Russification; slave labor in gulags; Soviet invasions of 1919, 1939 and 1956; leaving our partizans to die like dogs in 1944; suppression of our inteligencja and culture; torture, deportation and murder of our partizans after WW2 and recent Russian behavior (meat ban, gas pipe etc.) in any way better than Poland apparently trying to harm Russia for 200 years???
Even my family has been touched by Soviet brutality, my grandfather was tortured for being a member of the AK (Armia Krajowa) by Soviet troops after WW2, I would like to hear of instances when Poles actually "harmed" Russians in any way like they ever harmed us! They want to talk about International Law, let them look at how they administered it towards us.
To all the Polish posting opinions on behalf of Poland:
Please, if you wish to put a comment on your name do so.
Do not pretend that you represent Poland.
I say this because I know personally hundreds of Poles that disagree with you.
Peter Sudyka,
You know that, though I have disagreed with few of your comments I respect your views.
I know that in the beginning your opinion was much more pro-Serbian however with time I believe that you have tried to be more unbiased.
I believe that you learned one very important lesson today (therefore your response to СМЕРШ).
As soon as Poland opted to recognise Kosovo, the pro-Serbian camp started with their standard offensive comments.
One thing that astonishes me is that apart from you none of the “Polish that speak for Poland” reacted to this kind of insults.
Makes you think, doesn’t it Peter: Who are these Polish that are happy to apologise to Serbs for their governments actions but have no nerve to defend Poland.
Also Peter, you know yourself that for over 6 months it was only you (and I believe one more Polish whose name I forgot) in this forum from the Polish side.
Suddenly we have an “invasion” of Poles in this forum.
Also every single one of them uses phrases “Kosovo is Serbia” or “Kosovo is province”.
Not very Polish don’t you think.
Do you believe that they just found out that B92 exists?
P.S.
I will be visiting Poland soon and thank the Polish people for their support.
I am taking with me a bottle of Kosovo Grappa (Raki Rrushi).
From their side the Polish side have promised a bottle of Chopin Vodka.
Sobieski if you are a bit short on cash from too many heavy drinking nights before.
(Peter Sudyka, 27 February 2008 13:29)
Thanks Peter,
Sobieski is ok (actually quite good) however I have found that ¯ubrowka is the medicine for the day after.
And yes, you are right. Belvedere Vodka is good (especially ice cold).
What a very 'smart' move by the Polish government. First was the missiles and now this. I'm sure the Russians are really impressed. What the hell was Tusk thinking of. What Poland needs good neighbourly relations with Russia.
and it would be a shame if the Polish people were blamed for the recognition of Kosovo.
(Peter Sudyka, 27 February 2008 20:29)
Peter,
The blame game is a fumy one isn’t it.
Looking at the pro-Serb postings it seems that every nation that supports Kosovo independence is the enemy and to blame for the “injustice” caused to Serbia.
Well, the only people to blame are actually the Serbian government.
It is very easy to look for enemies outside but the real enemy of Serbia is their own government.
We (Kosovars) don’t treat Romanians as enemies just because they are not prepared to accept Kosovo as a state.
It is Romania’s right to recognize or not any state.
With Serbia is: ether you are with me or against me.
George the Romanian.
I am happy that you saw the real Kosovo.
I am also happy that you wrote exactly what you saw.
I truly respect that.
I would love to have more people go to Kosovo and see the same.
You have hopefully noticed one thing.
It is the pro-Serbian camp that tries to give Kosovo a religious nature.
The same happened in Bosnia. Weirdly enough they did not use the same propaganda with Croatia (I wonder why??).
I have highlighted in my previous comments that I respect Romania’s stance in regards to Kosovo recognition.
We Kosovo Albanians owe a lot to Romania for their actions in 1999.
It was Romania that did not allow Russian army to fly over Romania to reach Prishtina (after it was seized by Russian troops). We are grateful for that.
We also know that the reason for Non recognition is not religiously motivated.
You never know, after a while Romania might opt to recognize us. We can wait.
Blero,
Before you overwhelm Romania with thank you's, don't forget about the Romanian police officers who killed two protesters last year in Prishtina. They escaped justice and fled to Romania.
Serbia will recognize Danzig and the corridor at the first opportunity. The Poles have proven their worth by changing their communist masters for a new one...Rich or poor, the Serbs will always be free. The past belongs to the faithful, the future to the courageous!
Just want to let all the Serbs know, that what is government in Poland doing on the international arena is to very small extent an image of what nation thinks.
I have no idea how this issue will be resolved, but what have K-Albanians done is a very big mistake. I wish both sides all the best but the situation is very problematic and recently no one has any reasonable idea what to do. Impact of K-Albanians decission may be really tragic.
Once again I want to highlight:
what is government in Poland doing on the international arena, reflects to very small extent nation's mood.
We are all people ... some of us understand who Slavians are ... and there is justice. Sometimes it is just a matter of time.
Overwhalming mayority of Polse are AGAINST KOSOVO INDEPANDANCE!!! 75% of Poles suppots you Serbija! Our gov'ment made this decission against our will!!!
Just look on our prime minister's name - Donald. Is this slavic name?? He makes me laugh...
Late last week, papers in Warsaw quoted high officials as saying, "despite everything, we'll swallow that frog", and adding that the Kosovo recognition will happen as "there is no other way out", in bids to "harmonize the approach with the U.S. and EU".
Yes, there is a "way out"! You could could grow a pair and make decisions based on morality + law + common sense & justice instead of just pleasing your masters. I have a question; the majority of poles are against K-indy yet the "democratic" government of Poland goes contrary to their wishes. How come so many "democratic" countries don't represent the "will of their people" yet so called "authoritarian" governments like Russia represent the majority will of their people? I guess you can call a sows ear a silk purse but it don't make it so!
Very good remark.Kacsor(Duck)Kaczynski followed by Donald Duck.Does it mean that we will be governed by ducks forever?Quack quack quack.It does not sound good.
This must be changed.
Are you suggesting that Poles are posting responses to articles on the B92 site are actually Serbs pretending to be Poles? You must be aware that the way the USA forced Kosovo's separation from Serbia has consequences that go beyond the Balkans. People all over the world, including yours truly, are bothered by the way emperor Bush is handling foreign affairs. So why should the Poles on this forum not be real Poles unhappy with the way George Walker Bush keeps the Polish government on a leash?
My Serbian Brohers: I write in the name of a lot Polish citizens. We were, we are and we will be against splitting Serbia into pieces. Our "goverment" doesn't show the will of most of Polish People. Please, tell your friends that we are your brothers, not traitors. KOSOVO JE SRBJA!
so far, more countries have rejected the UDI than accepted.
After this, why would any country give its minority (if it has a sizable one)autonomony when it will just lead to a unilateral declaration for indepenance?
This process has damaged the rights of minorities everywhere.
I wonder if Polish goverment
will recognize independent Palistine once it is declared.Will Donald and his buddies be consequent and do it or politically correct and turn it down.By the way 2 more polish soldiers killed in afganistan today.What are we doing there?Are we not supposed to protect our serb brothers who have never betrayed us during history.
Poles Do you remember 100 Polish shot for every german soldier rule which applied only to us and serbs during ww2 while fathers of UCK members served in ss skanderbeg division?
Thank you Poland! The rest of the countries, please keep them coming!
--
You see lots of countries have their own secessionist problems. Take Turkey for example, it has recognised Kosovo and is now fighting a war with its secessionists!
I think other countries would prefer to avoid conflict! Turkey has not set a good example.
at Maks/ Toni
you should know that forums of Polish newspapers are full of outraged commentaries about this decision. Even the people supporting this govermt. feel ashemed. I have a strange feeling also that the medias in PL manipulate the sondages: 2 opinion polls showing either 65 or 82% of population being against to acknolegement of so-colled independet Kosovo disappeared immiedately, today TV came out with this sondage which apparatelly shows 56% of support. It is just beyond any believe if you have ever seen the discussions on net or among your friends etc. Maybe this is the reason some of us are trying to send a message to Serbia through B92. Anyway I think that blindly following of the politic of this US administration in this case will bring nothing good for Balkans and Europe. What is the real reason for creation of the second Albanian state in Europe?
The Oil factor in Kosovo independence - this will help you understand
February 24, 2008
On February 17, Kosovo broke away from Serbia and declared its independence. Not surprisingly it was instantly recognized as a state by the U.S., Germany, Britain and France. With 4203 square miles area, Kosovo may be a tiny territory but in the great game of oil politics it holds great importance which is in inverse proportion to its size.
Kosovo does not have oil but its location is strategic as the trans-Balkan pipeline - known as AMBO pipeline after its builder and operator the US-registered Albanian Macedonian Bulgarian Oil Corporation - will pass through it.
The pipeline will pump Caspian oil from the Bulgarian port of Burgas via Macedonia to the Albanian port of Vlora, for transport to European countries and the United States. Specifically, the 1.1 billion dollar AMBO pipeline will permit oil companies operating in the Caspian Sea to ship their oil to Rotterdam and the East Coast of the USA at substantially less cost than they are experiencing today.
When operational by 2011, the pipeline will become a part of the region's critical East-West corridor infrastructure which includes highway, railway, gas and fiber optic telecommunications lines. This pipeline will bring oil directly to the European market by eliminating tanker traffic through the ecologically sensitive waters of the Aegean and Mediterranean Seas.
In 2000, the United States Government’s Trade and Development Agency financed a feasibility study of pipeline which updated and enlarged the project's original feasibility study dating from early 1996. Brown & Root Energy Services, a wholly-owned British subsidiary of Halliburton completed the original feasibility study for this project.
The US Trade and Development Agency's paper published May 2000, which assesses that the pipeline is a US strategic interest. According to the paper, the pipeline will provide oil and gas to the US market worth $600m a month, adding that the pipeline is necessary because the oil coming from the Caspian sea will quickly surpass the safe capacity of the Bosphorus.
The project is necessary, according to a paper, because the oil coming from the Caspian sea "will quickly surpass the safe capacity of the Bosphorus as a shipping lane". The scheme, the agency notes, will "provide a consistent source of crude oil to American refineries", "provide American companies with a key role in developing the vital east-west corridor", "advance the privatisation aspirations of the US government in the region" and "facilitate rapid integration" of the Balkans "with western Europe".
The pipeline itself, the agency says, has also been formally supported "since 1994". The first feasibility study, backed by the US, was conducted in 1996.
In November 1998, Bill Richardson, the then US energy secretary, spelt out his policy on the extraction and transport of Caspian oil. "This is about America's energy security," he explained. "It's also about preventing strategic inroads by those who don't share our values. We're trying to move these newly independent countries toward the west.
"We would like to see them reliant on western commercial and political interests rather than going another way. We've made a substantial political investment in the Caspian, and it's very important to us that both the pipeline map and the politics come out right."
Professor Michel Chossudovsky, author of America at War in Macedonia, provides a deep insight into the Albanian-Macedonian-Bulgarian-Oil Pipeline project:
"The US based AMBO pipeline consortium is directly linked to the seat of political and military power in the United States and Vice President Dick Cheney's firm Halliburton Energy. The feasibility study for AMBO's Trans-Balkan Oil Pipeline, conducted by the international engineering company of Brown & Root Ltd. [Halliburton's British subsidiary] has determined that this pipeline will become a part of the region's critical East-West corridor infrastructure which includes highway, railway, gas and fibre optic telecommunications lines.
"Coincidentally, White and Case LLT, the New York law firm that President William J. Clinton joined when he left the White House also has a stake in the AMBO pipeline deal.
"And upon completion of the feasibility study by Halliburton, a senior executive of Halliburton was appointed CEO of AMBO. Halliburton was also granted a contract to service US troops in the Balkans and build "Bondsteel" in Kosovo, which now constitutes "the largest American foreign military base constructed since Vietnam".
"The AMBO Trans-Balkans pipeline project would link up with the pipeline corridors between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea basin, which lies at the hub of the World's largest unexplored oil reserves. The militarization of these various corridors is an integral part of Washington's design.
"The US policy of "protecting the pipeline routes" out of the Caspian Sea basin (and across the Balkans) was spelled out by Clinton's Energy Secretary Bill Richardson barely a few months prior to the 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia: This is about America's energy security. It's also about preventing strategic inroads by those who don't share our values. We're trying to move these newly independent countries toward the west. We would like to see them reliant on western commercial and political interests rather than going another way. We've made a substantial political investment in the Caspian, and it's very important to us that both the pipeline map and the politics come out right.
"In favour of the AMBO pipeline negotiations, the U.S. Government has been directly supportive through its Trade and Development Agency (TDA) and the South Balkan Development Initiative (SBDI). The TDI suggested the need for Albania, Macedonia, and Bulgaria to "use regional synergies to leverage new public and private capital [from U.S. companies]" while also asserting responsibility of the U.S. Government "for implementing the initiative."
And the U.S. Government has fulfilled its role in promoting the AMBO project, granting several contracts to Halliburton for servicing U.S. troops in the Balkans, including a five year contract authorized in June of 2005 by the U.S. Army at a value of $1.25 billion, despite criminal allegations made against Halliburton that are currently being probed by the F.B.I., according to Craig A. Brannagan author of On the Political Executive: Public or Private?
This leaves little doubt that the war in the former Yugoslavia was fought solely in order to secure access to oil from new and biddable states in central Asia. It is obvious that the former Yugoslavia, especially Serbia, was a serious problem for the realization of the plan. The intervention in Kosovo and Metohija was carried out in order to please Albania, whose port of Vlore is the ultimate destination of the pipeline.
In 1998, fighting breaks out between Serbian forces and ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. President Milosevic sends in troops, and atrocities were committed. This opens the door for NATO’s Operation Allied Force, occupying Kosovo in 1999 and then handing it over to the UN, with a huge American presence in the area. UN resolution 1244 is drafted stipulating that Kosovo is Serbian land, and at the same time gives Kosovars governance autonomy.
June 1999, in the immediate aftermath of the bombing of Yugoslavia, US forces seized 1,000 acres of farmland in southeast Kosovo at Uresevic, near the Macedonian border, and began the construction of Camp Bondsteel which is the biggest construction project of a US military base since the war in Vietnam. Now, why would the United States build such a massive camp in Kosovo?
In evaluating Kosovo’s independence, it is also important to know that Kosovo is not gaining independence or even minimal self-government.
It will be run by an appointed High Representative and bodies appointed by the U.S., European Union and NATO. An old-style colonial viceroy and imperialist administrators will have control over foreign and domestic policy. It is similar to the absolute power held by L. Paul Bremer in the first two years of the U.S. occupation of Iraq. U.S. has merely consolidated its direct control of a totally dependent colony in the heart of the Balkans.
An International Civilian Representative (ICR) will be appointed by U.S. and E.U. officials to oversee Kosovo. This appointed official can overrule any measures, annul any laws and remove anyone from office in Kosovo. The ICR will have full and final control over the departments of Customs, Taxation, Treasury and Banking.
The E.U. will establish a European Security and Defense Policy Mission (ESDP) and NATO will establish an International Military Presence. Both these appointed bodies will have control over foreign policy, security, police, judiciary, all courts and prisons.
These bodies and the ICR will have final say over what crimes can be prosecuted and against whom; they can reverse or annul any decision made. The largest prison in Kosovo is at the U.S. base, Camp Bondsteel, where prisoners are held without charges, judicial overview or representation.
US has argued the case of Kosovo is unique and that separatists in other states in Europe and the Balkans will not receive aid and welcome from major powers. "It is incorrect to view this as a precedent and it doesn't serve any purpose to view it as a precedent," said Alejandro Wolff, US deputy permanent representative to the UN. He may be right because other separatists may not have any attraction for the oil giants.
I'm a Pole and the decision of my government isn’t in my name. I and many of my friends are ashamed of this decision. Many people are interested in this issue in Poland and all of them shared Serbs view. Our politicians are conformists without the honors but the ordinary men are with you.
I am greeting and I am apologizing for my government.
I am from Poland and I am ashamed because of decision of our government. One poster quoted ere a poll - here are another one
http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/9,80269,4963952.html
Question: Should Poland recognise Kosovo?
26% Yes
24% No, not now
45% No, never
5% I don't care/don't know
In first comment GW said that "majority of Poles support independence of Kosovo", despite that clearly 66% of voters was against. I suspect it was the same with the IMG poll.
Hi. I think that one has to say two things: on one hand from the legalistic point of view, this independence is simply illegal, it's clear.
Now, from the realistic point of view, you cannot govern a province inhabited in 95% by so different people (language, history, religion, habits) who so much don't want you to govern them, and in addition as your country has shown that the army is able to raze hundreds of thousands from their households, or close universities or inducing unemployment. That's why in my opinion, Poland did a right move, recognizing just the reality. True that it's painful, and true that there are conflicting arguments. Also I think that in Poland there is a genuine feeling of sorrow about that.But that's how it is. It is also a pity that Serbian position has been not realistic during the negotiations.
What I personally hope is that your country will be able to extend your sovereignty in the north Kosovo, and also hope that one day you will unite with Srpska Republika in Bosnia. But only under the peaceful development of things. Maybe than you will celebrate a success.
One day the Western world will look back and regret this tragic mistake. The torjan horse has been inplanted in Europe now. During this dark time, Serbia will truly see who their real friends are, unfortunately, Poland has proven they aren't one of them.
I have mixed reactions to the government's decision, I already said why, but in a nutshell, it is good that they opt for a more-or-less unified approach dedicated to promoting peace in the Balkans, on the other hand it is bad that they take the side over the West by default and forget about a country that they have much in common with historically, culturally, linguistically and religiously, traditionally had good relations with and suffered the same fates as they did.
I think most Poles have got mixed opinions about this.
Blero
Indeed I am surprized to see so many Polish people posting here, I remember it was only me and another guy called zbyszek. Perhaps this is one guy that is posting under several names/has his friends to post also, but it could well also be that some Poles have joined here since the reality of the Kosovo independence hit them, because I before the independence there was very little about Kosovo in the media. Here where I work nobody knew what was going on until February 19th.
BTW Chopin is a great vodka. I also recommend Belvedere, this is my favorite, or Sobieski if you are a bit short on cash from too many heavy drinking nights before.
Mike says…“This leaves little doubt that the war in the former Yugoslavia was fought solely in order to secure access to oil from new and biddable states in central Asia."
I agree. I have learned through my many years on this earth that situations are seldom as they appear; it is not the behavior but the reason for the behavior that is important.
That being said, please find the following that I posted 9/17/07…
“The US is motivated by oil and they are using NATO to achieve their goals.
Quoting from a piece I read...
"Clinton's Energy Secretary Bill Richardson spelled out America’s Balkan policy a few months prior to the 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia:
"This is about America's energy security… It's also about preventing strategic inroads by those who don't share our values. We're trying to move these newly independent countries toward the West… We would like to see them reliant on western commercial and political interests rather than going another way. We've made a substantial political investment in the Caspian, and it's very important to us that both the pipeline map and the politics come out right."
In 2004, we read the pipeline will be built by the US-registered Albanian Macedonian Bulgarian Oil Corporation (AMBO).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4130271.stm
It is clear why there is interest in the Balkans, and it is not humanitarian.
Encouraging division of the countries throughout Europe so as to "divide and conquer", have them join NATO and then make them reliant on the West is the motive.
The Russians know exactly what the US is doing.
Unfortunately, the people of the Balkans are the ones who are paying for it.
(Roger7, 17 September 2007 20:38)”
The attached links offer more information.
As I said in September, the Russians were well aware and obviously took advantage of the situation.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/IE16Ag01.html
http://www.upi.com/International_Security/Energy/Analysis/2008/02/05/analysis_europes_pipeline_war/2456/
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/22/europe/energy.php
@Wojciech/Poznan
I am from Poznan too! Dok³adniej rzecz bior¹c, z Rataj.
I can't speak for others, but here are my answers for your doubts:
1) I find those page because the link was posted in one of polish forum. In Gazeta Wyborcza, to be precise.
2) How can I answer to those Serbs who are angry with our recognition? I simply have no heart to defend, since I deeply feel that my government did something which is really shameful.
3) The phrases "Kosovo is Serbia" is simply a catchphrase which is copied. I don't know Serbian, but I used several times phrase "Kosovo je srce Srbije" (And i hope it means "Kosowo jest sercem Serbii") just because it's a slogan, a catchphrase.
ANyway, just go to forum in gazeta wyborcza (if you are Polish then you will find it easily) and read through the comments. I think 3/4 of people discussing are pro-Serbian. There are some anti-Serbian, and some who don't care, but I have impression that they are in minority.
Kosowo jest Serbskie!
I am not Pole, but Rumanian.
Just to make it clear from the beginning: I support my country decision not to recognize Kosovo UDI (I emphasize: UDI, meaning not officially sanctioned through UN).
However, I do not consider myself entitled to give advice to Poles how to deal with the issue (as much as I am not accepting advice from anybody regarding how Romanians should deal with the same issue...).
Poland is a big country (I was there visiting, job&business related, couple times), with great potential, and I am sure that Warsaw politicians are always concerned with the best for their citizens.
I want just to make a comment, based on my three years spent in Kosovo, working for UNMIK: the conflict has nothing to do with religion, at least from the perspective of Albanians (also, Serbs from Kosovo told me the same: it was all about what ethnic group will be the dominant one, therefore a fight for political supremacy).
The Albanians are Muslims, but their Islam is so 'light' that it has no connection whatsoever with Wahhabism etc. I dare to say that their attitude towards religion mirrors the Romanians' one: we also consider religion (in our case, Orthodox Christianity) as part of national tradition, but not as something fundamental for "being Romanian". Maybe this is the effect of 50 years of Communism, or has to do with the fact that Ottoman Empire simply retained suzerainty over Romanian territories but never occupied it or colonized (no villayet, no provinces, only client regimes, paying tribute to Istanbul) - I don't know for sure, this is for historians to explain. So, I have noticed that Albanians are indeed very proud of their history and culture (of which religion is a part) but they are not fundamentalists, no way... Also, I don’t know if their position is natural, or has to do with the need to retain US and Western Europe support – to me, it looked quite natural attitude.
Of course, any society has extremists - I have seen in Kosovo (Mitrovica, Vushtrri/Vucitrn, Skenderaj/Srbica) some people wearing Islamic clothes (man with short pants, women with veil) but they are just a few ad are regarded as 'crazy people' (I was told they are getting paid by some Saudi-sponsored charity organization, only to do this...). We also have people in Romania, Jehova Witnesses, engaged in aggressive propaganda, and even Orthodox clerics very engaged in criticizing sects, Adventists etc. But this kind of bigotry is just something isolated.
Hope my comments will offend no one, if so, my apologies, is only what I have seen with my own eyes :)
Regards from Bucharest,
George
PS: I use this opportunity to answer (very late indeed) to an Albanian poster, who was suggesting somewhere on this forum that Romania's position regarding Kosovo UDI is connected with religion. Well, it is not. Most of Rumanians don't care about their religion too much, why they should care about Kosovo Albanians religion? Also, the fact that on the Kosovo issue we are siding with Serbia and international law has nothing to do with the fact that we and Serbs are Orthodox Christians... We should agree that the times when international alliances were concluded based on religion are only memories...
You forgot to put this:
Switzerland on Wednesday recognised Kosovo as an independent state and declared it will soon establish diplomatic and consular ties.
Remember my friend, the government took the decision, not the average person and it is sad to hear that the Serbs do not view us as friends anymore, but I am sure when I say this even those Poles who viewed independence as the only solution to end the problems in the Balkans feel a great deal of empathy towards Serbia, as I do, taking into account what our peoples have gone through. Now probably we will be seeing our flags burning in the streets of Mitrovica, Belgrade etc., and it would be a shame if the Polish people were blamed for the recognition of Kosovo.
Blero
I almost forgot to mention, the best of the herbal vodkas (you mention ¯ubrówka, which is good) is ¯o³¹dkowa Gorzka. If you can get this, you will not regret it. This is the best for medicinal purposes and cultured drinking. Of the Balkan alcohols I know little, however I have tried slivovica and raki, after both of which I was rather happy, hehe.
Ahmet/blero
You can believe or not in the authenticity of opinions coming from PL appearing at this forum. I have no means to convince you except as to welcome you to visit www.onet.pl or www.gazeta.pl. I assume that knowing Serbian, provided you have attended state run schools in Kosovo (what might be the case when you even know what soviet Smersh was), you would probably able to understand contend and scale of discussion there. I`m aware of the fact that this is only a voice of the public, politicians are influenced by other factors: if you only consider that PL is already about to conclude a military agreement with USA, there you will find the answer where the all pressure to recognize Kosovo comes from… Even the PM was quite straight in the yesterday’s interview saying that PL has been put in the situation where “our partners put us under tremendous pressure, forcing us to take a clear stand, either in one camp with Russia or with Western countries”. I write this all here not because PL is such an important country, rather because in effect of this illegal act it became “the first Slavic country recognizing Kosovo”. This fact is not without meaning in the medial campaign against Serbia, I guess…
Shqarti
I have personally nothing against nations seeking for freedom, and I do not certainly have anything against Albanians as a nation. For a long time I have admired Rughova as a personality, type of “Kosovo- Walesa”, fighting Milosevic regime with peacefully means and calling for reconciliation with Serbs at the same time. However, today situation is completely different: Serbia became a democracy and behind “self-determination of Kosovo” stands UCK, a terroristic organization with obscure mafia relation, which literally black-mailed the whole world to recognize eventually the status quo created by means of terror and ethnic cleaning. If you ask me I would say there are plenty of other nations in Europe, like Catalons or Flams, which deserved the independence through a hard work and respect gained in a peacefully way. Finally, why Serbia should be treated as a state of a second range? Territorial integrity seems to be guaranteed by the UN-Charta, why this primary rule of International law should not be binding in case of Serbia? Only because some powerful politicians in Washington or Berlin have their own ideas how the world should look like? The last sentence does not mean at all that I admire Russia for that it is doing (or better to say pretends to do) for Serbia. The fact is that RUS will do nothing except of some noise, and at the end of the day bill Serbia excessively high (taking control of energy sector). They practiced this already in Belarus. In change Serbs will maybe get “Putin`s version of democracy”, what heaven forbid! The sad conclusion is that Serbia does not have at the moment comfortable situation. Therefore I support that Polish PM recently said: the EU should stop to irritate Serbia, and start to think about some kind of “compensation” for Serbia .
Wojciech / Poznan,
First, behind self-determination doesn't stand only UCK (which was disbanded years ago), it is all Albanians that stand behind that. UCK was the violent expression of the desire of self-determination, Rugova was the peaceful expression of the same thing. Rugova wasn't heard by anyone, certainly not the Serbian regime. He had the majority of the people behind him and was really loved by the people. In the end of 1996 the overwhelming majority of the Albanians still believed the rumors of the UCK were not real, and that they were provocations from Serbia. The fact that the UCK grew so much in such a short amount of time should tell you how the the Kosovo Albanians were feeling.
The same is happening today, there are different forces inside the Kosovo Albanian society, as there are in any country. Some wish to go forward in a peaceful way, checked in everything they do by the EU (interestingly enough this is Thaci). And some others, that maybe you don't know, because they are still a minority, that want to do things differently. But ALL agree on one point: There can't be a return under Serbia.
I am not saying that you don't like Albanians. I just think that between supporting a people that wants freedom and the fear/dislike/protest of the "imperialistic" US, you choose the second one and sacrifice the first. You say "Only because some powerful politicians in Washington or Berlin have their own ideas how the world should look like?" What matters most to the politicians in Washington or Berlin and most of the EU nations is business. And the first thing to get to that is stability. I have nothing against business, or the ideas of how the world should look like of the politicians in US and Berlin and most of the EU. I think they are good ideas and the proof is the life standards of the people in those countries.
The situation would have been much worse, if nothing had happened, that is the meaning of the phrase: "The status quo is untenable". Whoever sees this as a threat from Albanians is either too naive or is not interested in solving this issue.
Ahmet Isufi and the other Albanian posters who claim that the people who say they are Polish are not, I say, Please don't make statements like that if you are not in a position to back them up with proof.
Every time someone disagrees with you or sides with Serbs you automatically yell "they are Serbs pretending to be so and so". Is is that hard to believe that there are people out there who actually do agree with Serbs and support the Serbs?
Again, you only look desperate when you accuse people of lying and you can't probe it.
Looks the close alliance with the US and the rest of United States Of Europe is more important to Poland than that of international law and regional security.
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