Tadić calls on UN SC to annul Kosovo declaration

Done Deal?

Is this reversible, or are we just going through a process?

1244 was established to set a transition - it was not a statement of conquest. Clearly the recent actions of the international community indicate that the 'interim' stage is past. That means 1244 has run its course.

In my view the conditions that lead to the terms of 1244 have been fulfilled by Democratic Serbia in good faith and have (in part) been broken and SUBSTANTIALLY abused by the international community in bad faith.

The international community are acting illegally against Serbia's rights in Kosovo and as Democratic Serbia has the right to defend its own territory, many of the restrictions that have been placed on it now no longer apply.

I propose therefore that it is it is now legitimately within the legal power of Democratic Serbia (behaving peaceably within the usual international norms and within the spirit of 1244) to reenter part or all of its own territory in order to reestablish and/or maintain its sovereign rights and in due time to establish an autonomous government for Kosovo.

The Albanians' mono-ethnic ambitions (which long predate Milosevic and which were used as a justification for his excesses) should not have been spuriously rewarded by the US trying to give away something that was not theirs to give. However, the right of ethnic Albanians to have a peaceful life should be guaranteed by strong autonomy (that's what the IC would have negotiated if they were acting in good faith in terms of 1244).

Democratic Serbia should behave as any other country would. Democratic Serbia does not have to argue a case anymore - on this matter it has to insist and refuse to backdown. It has to take-on the will of the international community. However, it can succeed. It has a legal basis for action and must stay on the side of right.

Unless Serbia is just making noise, it needs to act and directly resist the international community within Kosovo (peacefully I hope) at every opportunity. This has to be a long term action - within stated aims - as there will be no easy back-down by the international community. However, if Serbia is not going to act, it may as well give up now or push for partition.

--------------------

Restating the case:

-It was clearly in the minds of NATO and the US during the bombing that they would force Kosovan independence. This is in clear breach of the UN charter:

2.4 All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state...

-Clearly the EU have no right to be in Kosovo without UN permission and so are their illegally as they are not officially assisting the Secretary-General:

1244 10 Authorizes the Secretary-General, with the assistance of relevant international organizations, to establish an international civil presence in Kosovo in order to provide an interim administration for Kosovo under which the people of Kosovo can enjoy substantial autonomy within the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and which will provide transitional administration while establishing and overseeing the development of provisional democratic self-governing institutions to ensure conditions for a peaceful and normal life for all inhabitants of Kosovo;

-There is therefore nothing in this statement that overrides the preamble:

1244 Preamble: Reaffirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and the other States of the region....

or the statement:
Reaffirming the call in previous resolutions for substantial autonomy and meaningful self-administration for Kosovo...

Serbia is the successor state of Yugoslavia and so Kosovo is not a state but is reaffirmed as being a part of Serbia requiring substantial autonomy (but not independence).

QED.

Did boris tadic count all the serbs that were sent to kosovo from croatian war,bosnian war and some so called serbs from albanian who wanted a better life and came to kosovo.

First of all Serbia needs a better translator. I saw the UNSC meeting live, and I gotta tell you, the Serbian translator made your president look like a retard especially compared to those who translated China, Russia or Panama. The dude that translated your president needs clearly more ESL classes.
Second Tadic's defense was weak.
At the very beginning he blamed the West for not recognizing Kosova/o in 1999 and recognizing it now. That is not how you defend your case.
Second he keeps mentioning how most Albanians returned while the Serbs haven't returned. Well first of all the Albanians did not return because the Serbs made it possible for them to return. They returned because Kosova/o was their home. The braved the winter and slept outside because their houses were torched to the ground, they had no jobs and majority still don't but they still returned. Now if the other side according to your president is in similar condition then if they consider Kosova/o their home they should return which they haven't even though unlike Serbia we Albanians are urging them to come. Well clearly Kosova/o is not their heart then else they would have returned in a heartbeat.
Then your president went on to say Serbia is democratic now. Well this was immediately shown by the British ambassador in the UN not be true because Serbia did not allow Albanians to vote for the constitution.
Then your president claimed this was an illegal act. Even that was shown not to be the case since the declaration of independence is according to 1244 because 1244 states that Jugoslavia's sovereignty is guaranteed only for the interim period before the final status which then when it comes to the status settlement also refers to the Rambouillet accords which states that the final status is to be settled in accordance to the will of the people of Kosova/o. Well the people have spoken and the interim period is over, therefore Jugoslavia's sovereignty can no longer be guaranteed and all of this is in accordance to 1244 as it was rightly pointed out by several ambassadors.

Again change your translator in the UN, it makes all your statesmen that don't speak English look moronic.

The message from the U.S.-led NATO-EU empire to the Serbs is simple… Submit or lose everything you have: your lands and your lives. The Serbs have been split down the middle between those who believe that there is no moral alternative to resisting, and those who believe that “might” is obviously "right" and all resistance is futile. Paradoxically, that first group of Serbian moralists who will indeed continue to fight for Serbia's rights and freedom had historically formed the core resisters that defeated German invaders in WWI and WWII, fighting proudly as allies of the United States… a U.S.A. that exists no more.

Well, Serbs are extremely slow to accept that a longtime friend could have truly turned against them, but now that the inescapable truth has been demonstrated by the events in Kosovo, changes will come swiftly in Serbia.

It will not be long before the Serbian people as a whole comes to understand that the “America” that was once their ally no longer exists today. Certainly, the good-hearted, free and democratic American people still exist, but the U.S. government (and the prostituted media that serve it) no longer represent nor in any way even resemble Serbia’s former traditional ally. The U.S. government today is nothing but a facade that marches to the orders of a tiny ruling oligarchy of rich and influential families that last month went as far as to extend the psychological pacification techniques that they use to deceive their own American electorate to mislead and subdue Serbia’s gullible electorate in their presidential election in order to install the infinitely pliable U.S.-led President Tadic for a second term.

One does not have to be an expert to recognize the limits to the intellectual capacity of President Tadic. It is not only his poor translator that is at fault for his illogical and weak presentations in broken English. The president’s words make even less sense in Serbian. It is no wonder: the orders he is operating under first arrived in English from the State Department, had to be translated into Serbian at the U.S. embassy in Belgrade to be conveyed to him and then had to be translated back from that Serbian translation by the poor translator at the Security Council to make it all look kosher and to make it seem like he was really representing true Serbian interests. It was an excellent theater of the absurd.

Here is what will happen now. This temporary setback for Serbia in Kosovo will prove to be a watershed in Serbian history that reverses the naïve adulation and blind love of the United States that has informed the Serbian view of America at least since World War I. With that illusion now finally shattered, Serbs will have to begin the grim work of preparing to regain what has been taken from them by treachery, deception and force.

Once that happens, U.S. interests in the region will eventually suffer a setback beyond the imagination of the unrepresentative officials in Washington who have designed this criminal policy.

They have set the stage for a historic defeat for their own government and unfortunately a historic loss for the true interests of the misled, misinformed and “blinded-from-the-top-down” American people.

Serbs will eventually liberate themselves from the U.S. oligarch’s agents, and will set an example for the friendly people of the U.S.A. to also liberate themselves from the same immoral, rulers who perpetrated crimes like this theft of Kosovo on unfortunate small nations like Serbia all around the world.

John Bosnitch

I think that inteligent people understand our translator just fine. As far as the negative comments about anything coming out of Serbia it just shows your inability to be objective. Also, to Nick I think we can use the aid to help resettle the hundreds of thousands of people that have been expelled from their homes by the West. And your about as American as Thaci.

As an American, I wonder, as part of their sanctions, if Serbia is going to return our foreign aid?

As an American I am apaulled how Serbia protects INTERNATIONALLY WANTED WAR TERRORISTS (IWWT) America needs to intervene in Serbia to capture these terrorists.

Serbia needs to forget about UNSC at this point. Anything that is requested there will be vetoed by 3 out of 5 countries...and it will keep embarassing Russia.

The game is pretty much over as far as independence is concerned. Most of EU and the US is recognizing, now the next move will be to get Kosovo represented in the UN.

There's 2 ways of going about it:

1. Russia changes it's position.

2. Kosovo merges with Albania, and since the Ahtisaari plan is not a UN resolution, then no violation would be happening anywhere.

These are the options on the table at this point.

It dosent matter how sensible or logical your arguement is. Albanians will always turn any arguement into a "Serbia vs Albania" arguement. Never mind that this is against international law, or that it will set a precedent that will destabilise nations around the world, no, apparently some Albanians are too stubborn to realize this goes PAST SERBIA AND ALBANIA. Think of global reprecussions, Russia and China, some of the worlds most powerfull countries are now in conflict with the western powers. Think of future problems that will be caused because of this conflict in Kosovo.

Funcakes

I doubt Russia will change its position, but Kosovo cannot merge with Albania because the EU and US only recognized Kosovo on the premise that Kosovo exists as an independent state. They would lose all backing from the West if they did that, unless the West decided on it. Also Albania would have to be recognized within its new borders at the UNSC, and I highly doubt Russia and China, or indeed the others, would permit such a land grab only for the sake of Kosovo membership in the UN, because that would set a precedent.

If Kosovo cares so much for UN membership, it should wait until the laws of the UNSC are changed. Apparently they are looking into a new resolution in that the Arab League, India, Brazil, Japan, Germany and one African state would be added as permanent members, and then the voting structure would be 2/3 to pass a resolution. Until that happens, Kosovo must be what it is, an independent state with limited recognition, because they are not going to especially rewrite the rules just for Kosovo, sorry to say.

Peter V,

"Global repercussions" should be the least of your problems. There will be hardly any.
As for China it is a country with smart leaders. The West can work with them. I admire this upcoming big country already much more important than Russia. Russia has a terrible inferiority complex versus the US. Despite ridiculous grandstanding and provocations it is no match to the West. Times are gone when it was.

Well, if 2/3 of the UN can bypass a veto...then the magic number would be 67% of 192, or in other words 127 countries.

Thaci says he's sure on 100, I'm sure that 27 extra won't be a far stretch.

And I strongly doubt Russia or China would de-recognize the entire nation of Albania if a merger were to happen, and if push comes to shove...the West will back it just like it backed Kosovo's independence, so obviously something major is lingering in all of this.

Either Russia changes stance, either 127 out of 192 countries recognize and bypass the veto at UN, or Kosovo merges with Albania and a whole new can of worms is opened.

Pretty simple really. We'll meet back in a few years and watch the next episode unfold from this telenovella.

Done Deal?

Is this reversible, or are we just going through a process?

1244 was established to set a transition - it was not a statement of conquest. Clearly the recent actions of the international community indicate that the 'interim' stage is past. That means 1244 has run its course.

In my view the conditions that lead to the terms of 1244 have been fulfilled by Democratic Serbia in good faith and have (in part) been broken and SUBSTANTIALLY abused by the international community in bad faith.

The international community are acting illegally against Serbia's rights in Kosovo and as Democratic Serbia has the right to defend its own territory, many of the restrictions that have been placed on it now no longer apply.

I propose therefore that it is it is now legitimately within the legal power of Democratic Serbia (behaving peaceably within the usual international norms and within the spirit of 1244) to reenter part or all of its own territory in order to reestablish and/or maintain its sovereign rights and in due time to establish an autonomous government for Kosovo.

The Albanians' mono-ethnic ambitions (which long predate Milosevic and which were used as a justification for his excesses) should not have been spuriously rewarded by the US trying to give away something that was not theirs to give. However, the right of ethnic Albanians to have a peaceful life should be guaranteed by strong autonomy (that's what the IC would have negotiated if they were acting in good faith in terms of 1244).

Democratic Serbia should behave as any other country would. Democratic Serbia does not have to argue a case anymore - on this matter it has to insist and refuse to backdown. It has to take-on the will of the international community. However, it can succeed. It has a legal basis for action and must stay on the side of right.

Unless Serbia is just making noise, it needs to act and directly resist the international community within Kosovo (peacefully I hope) at every opportunity. This has to be a long term action - within stated aims - as there will be no easy back-down by the international community. However, if Serbia is not going to act, it may as well give up now or push for partition.

--------------------

Restating the case:

-It was clearly in the minds of NATO and the US during the bombing that they would force Kosovan independence. This is in clear breach of the UN charter:

2.4 All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state...

-Clearly the EU have no right to be in Kosovo without UN permission and so are their illegally as they are not officially assisting the Secretary-General:

1244 10 Authorizes the Secretary-General, with the assistance of relevant international organizations, to establish an international civil presence in Kosovo in order to provide an interim administration for Kosovo under which the people of Kosovo can enjoy substantial autonomy within the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and which will provide transitional administration while establishing and overseeing the development of provisional democratic self-governing institutions to ensure conditions for a peaceful and normal life for all inhabitants of Kosovo;

-There is therefore nothing in this statement that overrides the preamble:

1244 Preamble: Reaffirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and the other States of the region....

or the statement:
Reaffirming the call in previous resolutions for substantial autonomy and meaningful self-administration for Kosovo...

Serbia is the successor state of Yugoslavia and so Kosovo is not a state but is reaffirmed as being a part of Serbia requiring substantial autonomy (but not independence).

QED.

First of all Serbia needs a better translator. I saw the UNSC meeting live, and I gotta tell you, the Serbian translator made your president look like a retard especially compared to those who translated China, Russia or Panama. The dude that translated your president needs clearly more ESL classes.
Second Tadic's defense was weak.
At the very beginning he blamed the West for not recognizing Kosova/o in 1999 and recognizing it now. That is not how you defend your case.
Second he keeps mentioning how most Albanians returned while the Serbs haven't returned. Well first of all the Albanians did not return because the Serbs made it possible for them to return. They returned because Kosova/o was their home. The braved the winter and slept outside because their houses were torched to the ground, they had no jobs and majority still don't but they still returned. Now if the other side according to your president is in similar condition then if they consider Kosova/o their home they should return which they haven't even though unlike Serbia we Albanians are urging them to come. Well clearly Kosova/o is not their heart then else they would have returned in a heartbeat.
Then your president went on to say Serbia is democratic now. Well this was immediately shown by the British ambassador in the UN not be true because Serbia did not allow Albanians to vote for the constitution.
Then your president claimed this was an illegal act. Even that was shown not to be the case since the declaration of independence is according to 1244 because 1244 states that Jugoslavia's sovereignty is guaranteed only for the interim period before the final status which then when it comes to the status settlement also refers to the Rambouillet accords which states that the final status is to be settled in accordance to the will of the people of Kosova/o. Well the people have spoken and the interim period is over, therefore Jugoslavia's sovereignty can no longer be guaranteed and all of this is in accordance to 1244 as it was rightly pointed out by several ambassadors.

Again change your translator in the UN, it makes all your statesmen that don't speak English look moronic.

As an American, I wonder, as part of their sanctions, if Serbia is going to return our foreign aid?

As an American I am apaulled how Serbia protects INTERNATIONALLY WANTED WAR TERRORISTS (IWWT) America needs to intervene in Serbia to capture these terrorists.

Did boris tadic count all the serbs that were sent to kosovo from croatian war,bosnian war and some so called serbs from albanian who wanted a better life and came to kosovo.

The message from the U.S.-led NATO-EU empire to the Serbs is simple… Submit or lose everything you have: your lands and your lives. The Serbs have been split down the middle between those who believe that there is no moral alternative to resisting, and those who believe that “might” is obviously "right" and all resistance is futile. Paradoxically, that first group of Serbian moralists who will indeed continue to fight for Serbia's rights and freedom had historically formed the core resisters that defeated German invaders in WWI and WWII, fighting proudly as allies of the United States… a U.S.A. that exists no more.

Well, Serbs are extremely slow to accept that a longtime friend could have truly turned against them, but now that the inescapable truth has been demonstrated by the events in Kosovo, changes will come swiftly in Serbia.

It will not be long before the Serbian people as a whole comes to understand that the “America” that was once their ally no longer exists today. Certainly, the good-hearted, free and democratic American people still exist, but the U.S. government (and the prostituted media that serve it) no longer represent nor in any way even resemble Serbia’s former traditional ally. The U.S. government today is nothing but a facade that marches to the orders of a tiny ruling oligarchy of rich and influential families that last month went as far as to extend the psychological pacification techniques that they use to deceive their own American electorate to mislead and subdue Serbia’s gullible electorate in their presidential election in order to install the infinitely pliable U.S.-led President Tadic for a second term.

One does not have to be an expert to recognize the limits to the intellectual capacity of President Tadic. It is not only his poor translator that is at fault for his illogical and weak presentations in broken English. The president’s words make even less sense in Serbian. It is no wonder: the orders he is operating under first arrived in English from the State Department, had to be translated into Serbian at the U.S. embassy in Belgrade to be conveyed to him and then had to be translated back from that Serbian translation by the poor translator at the Security Council to make it all look kosher and to make it seem like he was really representing true Serbian interests. It was an excellent theater of the absurd.

Here is what will happen now. This temporary setback for Serbia in Kosovo will prove to be a watershed in Serbian history that reverses the naïve adulation and blind love of the United States that has informed the Serbian view of America at least since World War I. With that illusion now finally shattered, Serbs will have to begin the grim work of preparing to regain what has been taken from them by treachery, deception and force.

Once that happens, U.S. interests in the region will eventually suffer a setback beyond the imagination of the unrepresentative officials in Washington who have designed this criminal policy.

They have set the stage for a historic defeat for their own government and unfortunately a historic loss for the true interests of the misled, misinformed and “blinded-from-the-top-down” American people.

Serbs will eventually liberate themselves from the U.S. oligarch’s agents, and will set an example for the friendly people of the U.S.A. to also liberate themselves from the same immoral, rulers who perpetrated crimes like this theft of Kosovo on unfortunate small nations like Serbia all around the world.

John Bosnitch

I think that inteligent people understand our translator just fine. As far as the negative comments about anything coming out of Serbia it just shows your inability to be objective. Also, to Nick I think we can use the aid to help resettle the hundreds of thousands of people that have been expelled from their homes by the West. And your about as American as Thaci.

Serbia needs to forget about UNSC at this point. Anything that is requested there will be vetoed by 3 out of 5 countries...and it will keep embarassing Russia.

The game is pretty much over as far as independence is concerned. Most of EU and the US is recognizing, now the next move will be to get Kosovo represented in the UN.

There's 2 ways of going about it:

1. Russia changes it's position.

2. Kosovo merges with Albania, and since the Ahtisaari plan is not a UN resolution, then no violation would be happening anywhere.

These are the options on the table at this point.

It dosent matter how sensible or logical your arguement is. Albanians will always turn any arguement into a "Serbia vs Albania" arguement. Never mind that this is against international law, or that it will set a precedent that will destabilise nations around the world, no, apparently some Albanians are too stubborn to realize this goes PAST SERBIA AND ALBANIA. Think of global reprecussions, Russia and China, some of the worlds most powerfull countries are now in conflict with the western powers. Think of future problems that will be caused because of this conflict in Kosovo.

Funcakes

I doubt Russia will change its position, but Kosovo cannot merge with Albania because the EU and US only recognized Kosovo on the premise that Kosovo exists as an independent state. They would lose all backing from the West if they did that, unless the West decided on it. Also Albania would have to be recognized within its new borders at the UNSC, and I highly doubt Russia and China, or indeed the others, would permit such a land grab only for the sake of Kosovo membership in the UN, because that would set a precedent.

If Kosovo cares so much for UN membership, it should wait until the laws of the UNSC are changed. Apparently they are looking into a new resolution in that the Arab League, India, Brazil, Japan, Germany and one African state would be added as permanent members, and then the voting structure would be 2/3 to pass a resolution. Until that happens, Kosovo must be what it is, an independent state with limited recognition, because they are not going to especially rewrite the rules just for Kosovo, sorry to say.

Peter V,

"Global repercussions" should be the least of your problems. There will be hardly any.
As for China it is a country with smart leaders. The West can work with them. I admire this upcoming big country already much more important than Russia. Russia has a terrible inferiority complex versus the US. Despite ridiculous grandstanding and provocations it is no match to the West. Times are gone when it was.

Well, if 2/3 of the UN can bypass a veto...then the magic number would be 67% of 192, or in other words 127 countries.

Thaci says he's sure on 100, I'm sure that 27 extra won't be a far stretch.

And I strongly doubt Russia or China would de-recognize the entire nation of Albania if a merger were to happen, and if push comes to shove...the West will back it just like it backed Kosovo's independence, so obviously something major is lingering in all of this.

Either Russia changes stance, either 127 out of 192 countries recognize and bypass the veto at UN, or Kosovo merges with Albania and a whole new can of worms is opened.

Pretty simple really. We'll meet back in a few years and watch the next episode unfold from this telenovella.