Kosovo: Turmoil in north, KFOR tries to block town

You see, this is what happens when you try and take away something precious and dear to the people. Looks like partition is closer than we think. Goodbye Kosovo, hello North Kosovo and South Kosovo. People, we have a new Veitnam on our hands.

It has been widely reported in Western Medias that a new Kosovo passport will be more or less worthless, good only in those countries that recognize the illegal state of Kosovo, which in the end will probabley be less than 25 not including the Muslim countries, this is a far cry from more than 100, as Pristina was harping about just last week.

Another point Albanians should take note of is - You are stuck in Kosovo forever! Because now even those few countries that recognize your toy passport will not give you a "visa" or refugee status because now you have your own toy country that is Democratic and safe! That is the excuse most of the Former Yugoslav Republic citizens get when trying to immigrate to the west or even just visit. No more free rides for Albanians. You made your bed, better get use to sleeping in it.

Oh by the way there will be a great deal of deporting of Albanians from the west in the months to come, you see the west now has a safe place to return you to!

"We are inches from partition," a Western official was also quoted by the agency.

HAHAHA! Are you kidding? It has been partioned since day 1. Please, lets not kid ourselves. This is headed for a full partition and this is where the Russians will eventually get involved and dare the US to do something. You Albanians need to wake up and realize the US is not going to mobilize a division to force Northern Mitrovica. If you are still day-dreaming, look at the shortages they have with Iraq and Afghanistan. The Russians are on their way to call their bluff and the Serbs know it too. The problem is that you Albanians are the last ones to realize it. I can't wait for RS to join in on the fun and down goes Bosnia...

Olf, please, you have been stoking the hate all this time and now you have the gall to say "please stop?" And how do we know that you aren't sipping cappacino in Berlin? too funny..

Agim, oh please stop with the "get used to it" mantra. Face it, unless the Chinese and Russians say "Da" no UN. With Spain and Greece in the EU, say no to the EU. You guys are the ones who need to let it go and get real. But I guess you're getting slapped around with reality. How long before you guys turn on the international forces??

Serbs are simply defending their country.

North of the Ibar is certainly not "Kosova". Pristina has no authority there, and will have no authority there. What's NATO's option to enforce compliance? Another aerial bombardment? Oh yes, I can already see how an "independent" Kosovo is going to bring peace and stability to the region.

I just don't understand how a people can let this go without a fight. I'm an American working here in Kosovo and never supported what we were doing it for. If someone stolen my land I would fight for it. Sand up and take back what's yours. Sick you finger in the face of the EU and the west and say " This is our land and you stay the hell out of our affairs". Were is Russia? Ask for there Military help! If not this Kosovo Independance will start a domino affect around the world.

I guess you can't really blame albanians for these attacks can you?

Is it possible that even serbs can resort to violence? No need to answer - the answer is pretty clear to everyone apart from some serbs.

Lets hope that there is no violence from any side in the future.

Isn't it kind of amusing in a sick kind of way to see all the K-Albanians getting so upset by the actions of the Serbs in Northern Kosovo. To my mind these people have every right to resist foreign domination by whatever means they care to use.

Let's just summarise what we have here:
- a country where a national minority in one province refuse to integrate.
- at the behest of powerful states, the country is partitioned and loses 15% of its territory.
- this new fake statelet contains a significant number of people cut off from their natural homeland.
- trouble ensues

Sounds awfully like Northern Ireland.

"Listening to the news it sounds as if Serbian authorities are adopting policies of Al Qaeda terrorists" - Olf

Just fell around the floor laughing at that. Olf have you realised what you have wriiten. I suggest to you sir that you expolit fully that untapped comedic genious inside of you.

Sweet Mother Divine of Jesus, what next, Serbs hijacking planes and slamming them into the Pentagon, Empire State building, Fort Knox, House of Commons, Serb suicide bombers et al.

Jovan was so right, some of the stuff we will have to read over the coming days and weeks....

Good Lord :)

Someone gave that link, here is the text, just for our K-Albanians friends to really understand what 'K-independance' means.
As far as we are concern in Switzerland, quiet happy, we'll be finally able to send back all these gangs controlling 50% of the drug and prostitution market!

Here we go:

Despite the highly publicized flag-waving in the streets of Pristina and regardless of whatever one might hear or read in the media suggesting the contrary, Kosovo is no more independent today than it was the day before last.

In the first place, it is not enough for the political leadership of a territory to declare independence for it in fact to be independent.

If it were, Kosovo would be independent not since yesterday, but since 1990: the first time that a self-styled parliament of the Serbian province declared independence. It remains to be seen in the weeks and months ahead which countries will recognize Kosovo’s declaration of independence as legitimate. The EU “big four” of Germany, France, the United Kingdom and Italy are expected to recognize Kosovo’s independence in short order, and, despite the relatively tepid “taking note” of the declaration by the State Department yesterday, it is widely assumed that the US will follow suit. But other EU states have made known their opposition to Kosovo independence. Some of these — notably, Romania and Greece — are traditional allies of Serbia and several are confronted by their own home-grown ethnic separatist movements (or in the most glaring case, Cyprus, even with a full-fledged already proclaimed “Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus” on roughly half of its territory).

Among the other established world powers on the UN Security Council, Russia’s opposition has been well publicized. Though it has thus far shown greater discretion, China too can be assumed to be hostile. It too is confronted by multiple ethnic separatist movements — not to mention an already de facto independent Taiwan — and it opposed the 1999 NATO bombing campaign that “liberated” Kosovo from Serbian control in the first place. Emerging powers like India — embroiled for decades in a bloody conflict with Muslim separatist insurgents in Kashmir — will have similar reasons to want to withhold recognition. And so too will innumerable smaller countries that are wracked by violent separatist movements around the globe.

Even leaving aside the question of international legitimacy, however, there is another still more fundamental reason for insisting that Kosovo did not become independent yesterday and will not be independent for the foreseeable future — if indeed ever. In its resolution, the Kosovo parliament declared that Kosovo is an “independent and sovereign state.” But in the very next sentence it states that this declaration is occurring “in full accordance” with the famous “Ahtisaari Plan” for Kosovo’s final status: so-named for UN Special Envoy Martti Ahtisaari. Now, even a cursory glance at the Ahtisaari Plan — which can be consulted in full here — makes obvious that it does not in fact foresee independence for Kosovo, but rather what has been euphemistically described as “supervised independence.”

Kosovo is, needless to say, to be independent from Serbia — which de facto it has been, in any case, since the close of the NATO bombing campaign in June 1999 — and it is to have its “own” constitution and its “own” political institutions. But these political institutions as a whole are to be subjected to the higher authority of an “International Civilian Representative” invested with dictatorial powers. The International Civilian Representative or “ICR” is empowered, for instance, to annul any laws or decisions adopted by the local Kosovo authorities and to “sanction” or outright dismiss public officials. Lest there be any doubt about where the ultimate authority in Kosovo resides, the International Civilian Representative is to serve simultaneously as the “Special Representative” of the European Union. Whereas other countries or international institutions are supposed, in principle, to serve in the “Steering Group” to which the ICR reports — one of which, namely Russia, will undoubtedly decline the invitation — it is clear from the proposed composition of the “Steering Group” that the EU will in fact be able to appoint the ICR unilaterally. Indeed, it has already, in effect, done so by naming the Dutchman Pieter Feith as its “Special Representative.”

At the same time, the EU will dispatch a “Security and Defense Policy” mission — in the meanwhile re-baptized “EULEX” — which will be ultimately responsible for the maintenance of law and order (or in EU-speak, “the rule of law”) in Kosovo. The retired French General Yves de Kermabon has been named as “EULEX” head. Under the terms of the Ahtisaari Plan, the EU “mission” will have the authority, for example, “to reverse or annul operational decisions taken by the competent Kosovo authorities.”

Finally, it should be noted that the Ahtisaari Plan leaves in place the NATO-led military presence in Kosovo. The NATO-led force was recently reinforced by additional German troops and it presently amounts to some 16,000 troops in all: this for a population of some 2 million persons, making the foreign military presence in Kosovo comparable to the foreign military presence in Iraq, for example. Under the terms of the plan, moreover, the existing local Kosovo security force, the Kosovo Protection Corps (KPC), is in fact to be dissolved and replaced by a new force. The latter is to consist of not more than 2500 troops and is to be “lightly armed and possess no heavy weapons.”

The Kosovo “Declaration of Independence” meekly accepts — indeed “welcomes” — all these blatant encroachments upon Kosovo sovereignty. If words are to retain their sense, it would be more accurate to label it a “Declaration of Dependence.”

One detail of yesterday’s events makes the gap between popular national aspirations in Kosovo and the reality of Kosovo’s subjugation to European dictates especially clear. Think again of the images of the celebrations in the streets of Pristina and, more specifically, the flags being waved by the revelers: the dark red flags with the striking black two-headed eagle at their center. As so happens, the flag is in fact the flag of neighboring Albania. The choice is hardly surprising, since from the start the Albanian nationalist insurgency in Kosovo aimed not at independence for the province per se, but rather its separation from Serbia and incorporation into an enlarged Albanian “motherland.” When, however, the Kosovo parliament unveiled the “official” flag of the supposedly “new state,” it was not, of course, this Albanian flag. Indeed, it did not even in any way refer to or resemble the Albanian flag. Instead, reflecting the real dependence of this fictive state upon the European Union, the official flag is a pale blue imitation of the EU flag with a yellow map of Kosovo awkwardly stuck in the middle.

An article in today’s New York Times hopefully notes that yesterday’s declaration of independence may represent “the end of a long and bloody struggle for national self-determination.” As impressive as this might sound, it can well be doubted that the editors and authors of the New York Times know what the historically highly contentious principle of “national self-determination” in fact means. After all, even Woodrow Wilson himself — often, though mistakenly, thought to be the inventor of the expression — would admit after the First World War that when he first uttered “those words” he had been unsure of their meaning and that he had not realized that there were so many “nationalities.” Yesterday’s events in Kosovo, at any rate, were a parody of “national self-determination.” If the expression is to mean anything at all, then it must mean that the nations in question govern themselves. And this, the people of Kosovo most certainly do not.

Is it now clear enough... big powers as you always call them are full of surprises and nice lies, just look around a bit....

I would not be surprised if the rightful owners of that land reach out for self-defense...

at last, they´ve got the UN-Charter and especially UNSC 1244 on their side!

ah..by the way, for our albanian friends:

http://pajamasmedia.com/2008/02/kosovo_is_not_independent.php

looks like you will indeed realize some day soon that you´ve been duped.

Serbia is near and will come back. that´s something you certainly can count on.

“Kosovo has its own government. EU- LEX in Kosovo has only an advisory mission”

Incorrect.

You need to learn the name of Peter Feith, the dutchman who is now the EU boss in southern Kosovo.

In a recent interview your new boss, Mr. Feith said, “I have executive powers. I can annul legislation, fire corrupt officials, cancel government decisions.”

Peter Feith is the final word so you better listen.

Partition is starting.
NATO will not shoot at Serbs, otherwise it will be beginning of III World War.

FREEDOM TO NORTH-KOSOVO!!!

You better not dream on partition because then it is 'Goodbye Serbia'.
(K-Alb, 19 February 2008 14:30)

Because you say so? You are a comedian. Remember you tried a rebellion in Preshevo, just remind me how that ended up.

Facts, pure and simple, you never had control of the North and looks like you never will.NATO are bound by Resolution 1244 which means when the Serbs in the North revolt against Pristina, NATO must protect them. Do you understand this logic.

UN Resolution 1244 is still in effect and any attempts to send in albanian guards or police to this area in the north is highly illegal. Kosovo is legally Serbian, and nobody can change that. Serbs have every right to reject this fake state, especially if they dare try to impose it on them with force. For every action there is a reaction.

The Serbs have learned from their Islamo neighbors that civilian uprisings and violence can work. If the Albanians do not want a multi-ethnic society as proven in their cruel history, then the Serbs should not have to tolerate it. Let's hear from the Albanians how they are victims and their leaders are not mafia leaders and how they have rights to the land because they were goat herders in the balkans before the Slavs arrived. Read any history book not scribled in Albanian and you will see who settled the region. Not who was in the area but who settled it.

Namely, local Serbs learned previously during the day that Albanian customs officers were coming to take over the boundary checkpoint, which caused their anger.

-Of course that after such provocation by Albanians, the riots were expected. Albanians should accept reality that Serbs do not want to live with them, especially they do not want to be governed by the Albanians and therefore Albanian’s custom officers cannot come to the North. Albanians should finally learn that they lost north and there is nothing in this Earth that will help them to establish control over the North. The partition seems to be the only sustainable solution so far and it looks like it is going to be. However, from the North there will be no borders with Serbia.

Now, the funniest of all is that police sheltered in tunnel and ordered the KFOR helicopter to evacuate them. So, I wonder who they are going to protect but themselves. They are totally incapable of keeping the order. I wonder when the KFOR is going to do exactly the same, to evacuate due to incapability to provide safety.

KFOR and Kosovo police should arrest these vandals who damage the property of the newest state in the world - Kosova. immediately.

blero, 19 February 2008 14:39)

I think what Strav meant was that the EU is now stuck in Kosovo forever.
EU will ruin themselves with the impossible misssion to rule Kosovo. Just like Americas economy have taken a big hit after 2001 because of the meaningless wars in the middle east.

If you belive that you are any more independent today than two days ago you are naive, nothing have changed, you will be ruled from Brussels in the future, don't for a second think that EU will let the Albanians rule Kosovo without interfering. Why do you otherwise think they are sending more people there?

But go ahead, start a war against EU and NATO when you will finally wake up and se that you are being ruled by them.

And what are you going to do about Mitrovica and Trepca if I may ask? Demand that NATO etnicly cleans all serbs from there? Kosovo will partition, and you will lose the north.

@(Agim Gjilan, 19 February 2008 14:47)

What is youre independence worth if it's governt by the EU, the same EU you cannot join beacause 6 members off that same EU do not recognize you.

You cannot join the UN and the US is not going to stay forever, the day will com that you will border Serbia (with an grudge).

"Listening to the news it sounds as if Serbian authorities are adopting policies of Al Qaeda terrorists"

Olf, don't you think that's a tad bit extreme? I mean if Al Qaida's terror was defined only in the burning of checkpoints, the so-called War on Terror would have been over a long time ago. This is a far cry from what the Albanian mobs would have done if independence was denied.

@(Agim Gjilan, 19 February 2008 16:57)

You said, that and i quote "they will be catagorized als terrorists, and whe all know what happens to them."

First off, if the albanians have the right to declare independance, so then the Serbs is north-kosovo have the right to secceed from Kosovo, there's nothing you can do about that.

Second
The EU mission has far more power than you realize, it even has the power to dispose off youre government if it pleases, so don't celebrate to hard.

Third if you (the albanians) take any action against the Serbs, KFOR and the EU mission is forced to action against you.

Neither KFOR nor the EU mission has to have to listen to youre 'government' actually it's the other way around, youre government has to comply with the EU and KFOR or else it will be disbanded, and you guys thought you had gained independence.

On polish TV I haven't seen any kosovian flag only albanian & usa. Kosovian they don't have own flag, language, culture so this not separated nation , they are Albanians. So I don't understand this independent declaration.
because Albania is independent.
In Chicago is 2 million polish people so we have to make secession. I don't even talk about Mexicans speciality in Texas or California.
THIS IS GREAT SCANDAL.
New Munich 1938

No Olf. Al Qaida uses suicide bombers, flies planes into buildings, decapitates hostages, and uses IRDs against American tanks. Take a look at Iraq or Afghanistan for a better reference for what Al Qaida is doing. As of now, no one, thankfully, is getting hurt in Kosovo Province.

If a few crazy Serbs comandeer a JAT jet and fly it into the parliarment building in Pristina, then we'll talk about Al Qaida parallels. Until then, let's call it what it is - a localized riot that has the potential to spill into an uprising, but a far cry from the 2004 riots instigated by hearsay and rumors and which took three days to pacify.

Until lives are intentionally threatened or, God forbid, lost, I have little to condemn.

arrest hahaha good luck the goal is to close down the border

Listening to the news it sounds as if Serbian authorities are adopting policies of Al Qaeda terrorists. Burning, throwing bombs at different sites in Kosova and Serbia where people shop and work is Al Qaeda style work.
Was this the secret plan of the Serbian authorities? – Good luck to Serbs with these politicians.

How could anyone compare this to "Al Qaeda style work". You have got to be joking. This is for defense of a nation. Invaders stealing land and the world being stupid enough to let it happen. Stand up tall and take back whats rightfully yours,or lose it forever.

The international community have done their bit and have gone further than was their right. They have overstepped the mark established in 1244 and have given up the right to resist Serbia.

They are now going to be challenged continually and eternally while Serbis now reestablishes and maintains its rights in Kosovo. They will never find it easy - it will never stop!

Kosovo is still a province of Serbia unless Serbia says otherwise!

'Police took shelter in a tunnel there as more than 1,000 protesters tried to tear it down, Kosovo police sources said.

"We asked NATO to send a helicopter to evacuate our officers," a police source told Reuters in Priština.'

:)
sorry guys but are you real cops or are you just playing with your uniforms? imagine serbian copdom taking shelter from the crowd :)
what am i to think now, kosovo has no police? :)
... and, it's, 'inches away'.

You see, this is what happens when you try and take away something precious and dear to the people. Looks like partition is closer than we think. Goodbye Kosovo, hello North Kosovo and South Kosovo. People, we have a new Veitnam on our hands.
(strav, 19 February 2008 14:05)
You better not dream on partition because then it is 'Goodbye Serbia'.

It ceases to amaze me at the quality of some of the posts here. Comparing Serbs to Al Qaeda or claming that Serbs should not protest or protect their position after an attempt to take 15% of their territory is simply ridiculous. You can get more violence after a football game here in the UK so what's your point? All English football hooligans are Al Qaeda operatives?

The Serbs stance is perfectly justifiable and understandable given the situation. Prolonged violence and tension works against the US/EU ( and their non-negotiate settlement ) so they will do all they can to keep the peace. The Serbs will keep themselves in the Serbian province of Kosovo under Serbian rule. UNMIK and NATO are there to protect them and if they fail, then I would expect the Serbian army to do that job (but I doubt it will get to that stage). I do expect offical Serbian parallel institutions to be set up immediately if the EU force enters.

Serbia will never accept an independent Kosovo and will constantly re-enforce that position when necessary. We have Russia and China on our side and will just need to be patient. China will become the world's dominant economic and military force soon enough!

Now, when can we expect round two of recognition? It has been a bit slow. Do you have 10 countries yet?

Thanks Flamur, I was looking for a list. So there are only 9 countries who recognise Kosovo so far and another 21 expected. 30 in total!

Then you have the undecided list, with countries like New Zealand saying:

"It's never been the New Zealand Government's position to recognise in such circumstances. We will neither recognise nor not recognise." according to PM Helen Clark.

Anyone who doesn't recognise is essentially not recognising. There is no middle ground I'm afraid. There are many countries in this position who would prefer to express neutrality so as not to upset the almighty US (sorry Mike), however, they are effectively in the non-recognition group.

B92 recently stated that only about 40 countries will provide recognition and that is a dismal amount. Serbia just needs to hold firm and Kosovo will come back in a re-negotiated settlement. Albanians will soon realise autonomy will provide more than their quasi-supervised-isolated entity.

The following was taken from Wikipedia. It is about the demographic history of KosovO! "Medieval Serbia" 14th century. The Decani Charter from 1330 contained a detailed list of households and chartered villages in Metohija and northwestern Albania: 3 of 89 settlements were Albanian, the others being non-Albanian. Out of the 2,166 farming homestaeds and 2,666 houses in cattle grazing land, 44 were registered as Albanian (1.8%). Others were registered as Slavic, mostly Serbian. The non-Serbian population of Kosovo didn't exceed 2% by the end of the 14th Century.

To all my Serbian brothers. Do not allow yourself to be baited into irrational arguements with people that don't know their own history. Knowledge is power. Use your voices to tell the truth. In the case of Kosovo, most of the ancient sites are Serbian. Many of the towns have slavic names. This just helps confirm that illegal immigration, high birth rates, and violence lead to succession. We must make sure it never happens again. Protect your borders!

hopefully the state of serbia is standing by to help our people if they come under attack. or we might as well become a hopeless protectorate ourselves ;)

"Now, the funniest of all is that police sheltered in tunnel and ordered the KFOR helicopter to evacuate them. So, I wonder who they are going to protect but themselves. They are totally incapable of keeping the order. I wonder when the KFOR is going to do exactly the same, to evacuate due to incapability to provide safety.
(bmrusila, 19 February 2008 15:33) "

While its funny to you and some other serbs who are probably used to serbian police tactics of shooting and beating protesters and massacring innocents, i would say it was a smart move to evacuate.

Would you think it was funny, if KPS opened fire at these thugs, which would probably result at the death of these thugs and even police officers, which in turn would have lead to great deteoriation of the situation and the spread of violence in other parts of Kosovo? Would that be funny?

I applaud the professionalism of the police and their cool heads in that tense situation.

And I urge all albanians not to fall prey to these provocations coming from Belgrade. Let Kostunica have his fun and boost his nationalistic ego, until he gets overthrown for isolating Serbia and causing even more damage to K. Serbs.

I believe that this will stop one this vandals get tired in couple of days. Though, the scars of this behaviour remain to ordinary people to deal with.

Many of poster in here like Princip, Kate, Jovan, bmrusila etc have until lately fed the ambitions if these vandals. I wonder where are Princip, Kate etc now. Are just maybe sitting in one of London nicest cafés drinking coffee and discussing the next steps that Serbs should take, of course away form Kosova and Serbia. All of those mentioned above have told Serbs that Kosova has no chance of becoming Independent and that there are not going to be recognised etc. It turned that they have deceived Serbs badly, just like Milosevic in 90s. As a result if this vandals are using the situation to sent a wrong message to the world about Serbs. I think that talk of hate should stop and people that entice hate should once and for always stop doing that.

Please keep protesting. This border is illegal. Kosovo is just a Serbian province.

No violence of course but never let this issue settle down!

Lots of success from Holland. The free world is supporting you!

Get down this border!

BUT NO VIOLENCE!!!!

to strav;

Here we can see how serious the negotiations were since the serbs from the beggining the made DELIMITATION. The Serbs can do what ever they want but do not forget that International Community is there.

Elton NYC wrote:

I think this quote says it all. While for years the Serbs wanted to convince the world that the Albanians should have to live under the Serb occupation, they themselves can't fathom living under the control of any other people than the Serbs themselves. They couldn't live uner the Croatinas in Krajina, nor under the Bosnians in BiH.

--

Interesting how you say that when Serbia wanted to preserve Yugoslavia where everyone lived peacefully together for 50 years.

It was the Albanians who chased out all the non-Albanians out of Kosovo - Serbs, Turks, Gorani and the rest! Also, it's the Albanians who want to carve out another country in Macedonia, Greece and Montenegro. Now who did you say can't live with their neighbours?

I guess you can't really blame albanians for these attacks can you?

Is it possible that even serbs can resort to violence? No need to answer - the answer is pretty clear to everyone apart from some serbs.

Lets hope that there is no violence from any side in the future.
(nikshala, 19 February 2008 12:39)

Seems to me that it was a pretty stupid & provocative act to send K-albanian customs officers into the north..

While its funny to you and some other serbs who are probably used to serbian police tactics of shooting and beating protesters and massacring innocents, i would say it was a smart move to evacuate.

Would you think it was funny, if KPS opened fire at these thugs, which would probably result at the death of these thugs and even police officers, which in turn would have lead to great deteoriation of the situation and the spread of violence in other parts of Kosovo? Would that be funny?

I applaud the professionalism of the police and their cool heads in that tense situation.

And I urge all albanians not to fall prey to these provocations coming from Belgrade. Let Kostunica have his fun and boost his nationalistic ego, until he gets overthrown for isolating Serbia and causing even more damage to K. Serbs.
(nikshala, 19 February 2008 16:24)

Also seems to me that the protesters were pretty well behaved - the fact that there were over a thousand of them & that no-one was hurt is a pretty good indicator of that..

From their point of view, there is no independent Kosovo, they are still part of Serbia, & so K-albanians have no right to either limit their access to serbia, or to prevent such access.

Once again - an irresponsible & provocative act - that was dealt with in no uncertain terms - with no unnecessary violence towards K-FOR who were merely carrying out their orders, or even towards said pseudo customs officials.

Well done Serbs :)

@LAMI you wrote:
"Kosovars will be happy to be in a union with the rest of the EU", "Kosovo is the most popular country on earth this week"

So-called "idependence of Kosovo" is not "popular" at all among the peoples of Europe. I suggest you to visit the forums of some biggest German, Polish, Czech or Belgian newspapers. There you will learn what the majority of the regular citizens think about illegal and immoral act of violence against Serbia. Besides, certainly nobody is amaized about the perspective of paying a millions of Euros from tax-payer money for the corroupted and mafia-backed "gouverment" of Kosovo.

Well, my dear Serbian neighbors, I guess that’s it with democratic protesting means. Situation has escalated. Do you really think exploding something will give you any good? Answer is big NO. I can feel that some Serbians are upset, but that doesn’t give them the right to blow up check points. The way you started, you will lose Kosovo (even though you lost it on February, 17) faster than you thought. This will give more power to your politicians to continue lying you that Kosovo is still Serbian. In a philosophic way they are right: Republic of Kosovo is Serbian, as much as it is Albanian, Roma, Turkish, Egyptian ect. Kosovo belongs to Kosovars.

The only thing I can do is ask you all to accept the reality. I can assure you that in Republic of Kosovo you will have a better life than you had until now. Let it go. Kosovo has declared Independence and it was accepted by US, GB, I, F, DE and lot of other powerful countries. End of chapter. History has written 17 February 2008 as day of Kosovo’s Independence. No one can change that.

"KFOR then used bulldozers to push soil onto the roads to physically block them.

But the Serbs, who previously set Jarinja checkpoint on fire, also used bulldozers to clear the roadblock."

i realize this is a stressfull time but this is really funny. A great example of Serbian ingenuity.

NO partition of Kosova, no embargo from Serbia ( in fact Serbia started selling energy to Kosova from saturday night so therefore Serbia contributed with energy so Kosovars could celebrate Independence Day in a better way).
Only some hooligans trying to destroy checkpoints but they were "calmed down".
I havent seen PRINCIP lately here, I hope he is well and i wish him well. I havent seen also some others who were thinking that Independence of Kosova will not happen but finally it happened.
THank you B92 for letting us be in contact with the people of Serbia.

People, we have a new Veitnam on our hands.
(strav, 19 February 2008 14:05)

Comparing few thugs burning border posts with Vietnam War!
Did you have to think long to find that analogy?

B92 recently stated that only about 40 countries will provide recognition and that is a dismal amount. Serbia just needs to hold firm and Kosovo will come back in a re-negotiated settlement. Albanians will soon realise autonomy will provide more than their quasi-supervised-isolated entity.
(ZK UK, 19 February 2008, 18:39)

It will be the same amount of countries who illegally invaded Iraq when George Bush Jr. set up the so called coalition.

The so called illegal state of Kosovo will be rejected by most of the world as was the invasion of Iraq.

Further, Canada is one those countries which will not make any comment on independance for fear of igniting the French Quebec Province joinin g commonwealth nation New Zealand.

These incidents should not be made bigger than they in fact were. A few crappy buildings were burned. There were no casualties. Nobody even got hurt. Very Al Qaeda indeed (NOT).

Today an old Serbian woman of 80 years was beaten by Albanians in the town of Gnjilane.
This speaks volumes.

Liam wrote:

Those who call for partition of Kosovo are really alknowledging Kosovo's right to independence.

--

No one is calling for partition here as it already exists (defacto). You have part of the province that is loyal to Serbia and part that is not. This has been the case for quite some time!

Bmrusila and Co.

You said Kosova will never declare Independence but as it happened, they did. You said no country will recognize Republic of Kosova but as it is happening they are recognizing Kosova. Total, so far, are, please check the link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reaction_to_the_2008_Kosovo_declaration_of_independence

As for your comment about Kosova's police and their call for evacuation.

Well what can I say, had the police did their job, and you know what's their job is, to keep law and order, that would've meant to stop those Serbs from blowing those checkpoints and arrest them. If they resisted then police would've had to use force, just like police in Belgrade. Had they done this, their job, then what say you Bmrusila and CO?
I bet my life that you would've bombarded us here with comments like: they are beating innocent people, innocent and peaceful protesters, this is how Kosova's police are, beating Serbs, killing them etc. etc. I wouldn't be surprised if you call for all Serbs to stand up and go to Kosova to fight.

Funny how you didn't say the same things about Belgrade's police for allowing similar hooligans attacking foreign embassies, Serbian MP's house and B92. Had the Serbia's police did their job, whatever your definition for police's job might be, then none of that would've happened. But as for your liking, Serbia's police did both things, they allowed the hoolgans to attack and destroy and then, only later, they start doing what they are supposed to do, stopping and arresting those hooligans.

Now Bmrusila, which was the right thing to do, for both countries' police, to intervene straight-away, try to stop hooligans, if resisted then arrest them and if that wouldn't help then beat them in order to keep the peace and order? Or to allow them and let them do what they please? It seems that for Kosova's police and its institution is no win situation when it comes to your comments.

The following was taken from Wikipedia. It is about the demographic history of KosovO! "Medieval Serbia" 14th century. The Decani Charter from 1330 contained a detailed list of households and chartered villages in Metohija and northwestern Albania: 3 of 89 settlements were Albanian, the others being non-Albanian. Out of the 2,166 farming homestaeds and 2,666 houses in cattle grazing land, 44 were registered as Albanian (1.8%). Others were registered as Slavic, mostly Serbian. The non-Serbian population of Kosovo didn't exceed 2% by the end of the 14th Century.

To all my Serbian brothers. Do not allow yourself to be baited into irrational arguements with people that don't know their own history. Knowledge is power. Use your voices to tell the truth. In the case of Kosovo, most of the ancient sites are Serbian. Many of the towns have slavic names. This just helps confirm that illegal immigration, high birth rates, and violence lead to succession. We must make sure it never happens again. Protect your borders!
(zm, 19 February 2008 22:54)

zm,
thanks for your comment, I recommended it. Please post a lot more of these historical facts, not only here but everywhere, so the whole world sees how you think. And please tell them the facts of how Albanians occupied your land hundreds of years ago and why they are seen as invaders of Kosovo for that. Please tell that them that the goal of what happened in 1998-99 was to free Kosovo. That should help Serbs a lot in their struggle. It has already helped you a lot. That's why we are here at this point today, the point being that Albanians rejoice and Serbs protest. But I have only one advice, don't use wikipedia as a source, because it is not truthful enough, you know, anybody can write there. Use serbianna.com, it is much more serious and factual.
Keep the work going...
Peace

Do u think that Kosova Police didnt have the courage to fight with those so called thugs??
Kosova Police has very close relation with K-For (u prefer Nato) and Unmik Police...and they were told not to shoot, because thats what serbs wanted..
Its all about the politics...serbs can continue and burn whatever they want (of course only on the North, cuz in the other parts its impossible)

I couldn’t resist but write one more time. This is getting very funny. Not even 24 hours ago, some of you guys said that “Kosovo belongs to Serbia- period” and you are happy with north Mitrovica only. The only thing I can say about it, KEEP DREAMING. Kosovo will not get divided. K- Serbs from north Mitrovica have every right to protest, Kosovo is a Democratic. If they continue to blow things up, they will be classified as terrorists and you all know the consequences.

Romania, Greece and Cyprus are no factor in Europe but Great Britain, Germany, France, Italy, Slovenia, Sweden, Finland, Netherlands, Belgium and the rest are. Most of you guys dream to live in those countries.

Kosovo has its own government. EU- LEX in Kosovo has only an advisory mission. Advising and Leading are two totally different things. Don’t forget that those countries are giving billions of EUROS for Kosovo. Every country in the world and especially poor countries like Serbia and others in Balkans would love to have such a mission in their country. Getting billions and help. A dream is coming true.

Oh no the poor KPS had to ask NATO for help again.The big bad Serbs are taking a stand.Thaci is gonna have to change the flag and cut the north because it seems like a no go.If the Albanians and KFOR use force than the army might have to act.We cannot go on like this with no Serbian security forces in the north.

hi,im greek!i definetely dont support kosovo independence.just from respect to the history of serbian nation,nobody should support kosovo independence!and actually it will never be independent!kosovo belongs to serbia!even albania is a created country by 1908!what history they have??its a creature of powerful countries as kosovo now!it started with kosovo and it will come to my country!on 19th february it was the meeting for the name of SKOPIA!its not macedonia!macedonia is geographical meaning!take a look on the map and u will see that the biggest part belongs to greece,then to skopia and bulgaria!u think that great alexander was slav?i dont think so!he was definetely greek!his teacher was aristotelis!in which language he wrote?how they can say that Great Alexander is their hero?did u know that they tried to beat greek reporters and they were telling them that they will come untill thessaloniki?so thats their plan!to take part in the future from north greece!why u think turkey was from the 1st countries that they supported kosovo independence?they already sent 750 soldiers there!becuase their future plan is to take thrace from greece!there is a turkish minority there!what will happen if they will have to vote about independence too?i really hope that greek goverment will not accept the independence of kosovo!wake up all and learn history and respect it!history that was writen with blood!

Pardon me if I am wrong, but didn't Serbs say that they shall not be the ones to start provocations and would keep their cool when provoked by Albanians.

Well, well, well....

Thaci emerged as the Nelson Mandela of the Balkans this weekend, and Kostunica looked and sounded like a tired USSR socialist leader. The behaviour of supporters of Serbia has once again shamed the country. Whilst Kosovo is attracting global support, Serbia is retreating, by withdrawing its ambassadors of those countries who do not agree with it. Serbia are welcome to Spain, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania and Cyprus. Kosovars will be happy to be in a union with the rest of the EU. Those who call for partition of Kosovo are really alknowledging Kosovo's right to independence, as they are calling for the same thing for North Mitrovica. Kosovo is the most popular country on earth this week, and no amount of violence, threats from the usual sources in Serbia will change this.

The western powers should think about what signals they send. Right now they have sent the signal "independence is less dangerous, lets grant independence".

Does this mean if the serbs are violent enough, they will achieve partition, because it is less dangerous?

The damage is already done. There will probably be more demonstrations and occational violence until the all-mighty ones allow a partition. I just hope not too many get hurt in the process.

Thank you to all the brave and great citizens of Serbia who are upholding peace, protesting, and making a stand for true democracy and Republic of Serbia's rights.

God bless them, and I hope for peace for all people who respect Kosovo in Serbia because Kosovo is Serbia.

Keep protesting, righteousness will prevail and we must be heard!

Mike

Masked men burning the Border Crossing point, burning UN and KPS vehicles, attacking Serb reporters, throwing bombs near the OEBS offices, also attacking Merkator, Embassies, McDonald, Albanian property, made me say that. It really looks like Al Qaeda style work doesn’t it. You should condemn it instead.

As for your predictions about K-Albanian actions, I think that you have exaggerated a bit.

I watched the webcast of SC meeting last night and I listened to Mr Tadic's speech and in particular when he was talking about how peaceful Serbian people are and how they are not going to resort to violence ever again.

Reading this article, I understand what Mr Tadic meant.

God bless

2 permanent UNSC countrys reject kosovo independence, so it will never be a part of the UN. How can a country truly be independent and recognised if they are not in the UN? Albanians you can swear, make fun, insult, mock Serbs all you want but you all know deep down Kosovo will never be truly independent, and will NEVER be a part of ALbania. always.

Peter wrote
“Seems to me that it was a pretty stupid & provocative act to send K-albanian customs officers into the north.”
.
Peter they were UNMIK customs officers not K-albanians!! The serbs thought that there were K-Albanian.

“Mike

Masked men burning the Border Crossing point, burning UN and KPS vehicles, attacking Serb reporters, throwing bombs near the OEBS offices, also attacking Merkator, Embassies, McDonald, Albanian property, made me say that. It really looks like Al Qaeda style work doesn’t it. You should condemn it instead.

As for your predictions about K-Albanian actions, I think that you have exaggerated a bit.
(Olf, 19 February 2008 17:46) “

Mike,
How are the terrorists the Muslim Albanian like our friends, Princip, Kate, Jovan, bmrusila and don’t for get CCCC say!!! Or the true color of the terrorists Serbs come out(Bombing, Burning, Attracting and soon Killing). Just like in the 90’s (Serbs Terrorizing Croatians, Bosnians, and Albanians and blaming the out side when they retaliate)!!! The truth hurts!!!

God bless,

to the Swiss 2

Swiss since generations, welcome, am happy for you... as far as I could track it down my family has been in switzerland since the 14th century...
Am not part of any political party, and certainly not a right wing, just have a different opinion and do not accept these kind of unlawfull imposed forced acts!
Just read the today's 'le Matin' newspaper and the comments related to an article "the Kosovars in Switzerland want to stay"

According to the Federal Migration Office only 2% are expected to return, main reasons given, no future, hight unemployment, destroyed coutry etc... being patriot doesn't mean to be stupid!!

Am also not trying to represent what you call "the Swiss opinion" and if you want to call me a racist just because I have a different opinion than yours, it's your problem!

As a matter of fact I have been working and creating companies in Switzerland Russia, Turkey and Serbia where the majority of my employees, not to say all, were locals and I always had a gread and rich experience and learn a lot about different mentalities, so before calling someone racist you should know whom you are addressing.

I have nothing against the people of Kosovo, but I have certainly something against unlawfull acts, and non respect of integrity, which they are now part of, and if I should be called a racist for this, let it be, I do not care!

I have not created the statistics about the K-albanians in Switzerland in relation to their integration, drug and prostition traffics, thefts, etc! You would certainly argue that not everybody can be put in the same pot, I agree, then they should make sure that these statistics only represents a minority! Why are these same statistics not mentioning people that came as refugees or immigrants from so many other region of the world? So maybe you should equally call our federal statistics institutions racists!
These numbers are alarming and everyone has the right to be concerned or not about it. At the end it's upto the K-albanians to prove to the world that they are not what a lot of people are thinking of, and the best prove would be in participating in the reconstruction of their region, but again the famous statistics tend to prove the contrary!!

Whatever they think they're doing it will never work. While Serbs of Kosova will waste their time burning kiosks and shouting in the air, Albanians of Kosova will sent their kids to school, make lawyers, doctors and businessmen out of them, prosper and get rich, and maybe start buying homes in Belgrade :-). Kfor will stay in the international border between Serbia and Kosova for an unspecified amount of time, probably for the next 50 years, while Serbs of Kosova will never belong ANYWHERE. They will self-eliminate themselves from the map without anyone doing anything. These stupid reactions will only make things worse for Serbs only, wherever they are. Good luck!

In my opinion,the only realistic way for the future of the Serbs living in Kosovo is to ask the annexion of their territory (West and North)to motherland Serbia. Of course by peaceful means.No more people need to die in the Balkans.By using peaceful means Serbs will have the support most of the international public opinion.

As an act of public service let me bring you the following link:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8126

Dear "Swiss"

Maybe you should choose a different nickname in order not to give the impression to stand for a "Swiss" opinion. I am swiss too (since generations) and the comments you made in the last couple of days gave me the clear impression of you beeing a right wing nationalist swiss. I am glad that more liberal and human rights oriented swiss form still the majority in switzerland and that racist views like yours in every vote remain the minority. Otherwise, we would very soon end up with the same problems as other countries in the world have. I prefer to live in peace.

good move from you:insecurity in north of kosovo will bring us jobs and investissements,for sure!!!
just how long serbia will pay you to make all this troubles?

“Mike

Masked men burning the Border Crossing point, burning UN and KPS vehicles, attacking Serb reporters, throwing bombs near the OEBS offices, also attacking Merkator, Embassies, McDonald, Albanian property, made me say that. It really looks like Al Qaeda style work doesn’t it. You should condemn it instead.

As for your predictions about K-Albanian actions, I think that you have exaggerated a bit.
(Olf, 19 February 2008 17:46) “

Mike,
How are the terrorists the Muslim Albanian like our friends, Princip, Kate, Jovan, bmrusila and don’t for get CCCC say!!! Or the true color of the Serbs come out(Bombing, Burning, Attracting and soon Killing). Just like in the 90’s (Serbs Terrorizing Croatians, Bosnians, and Albanians and blaming the out side when they retaliate)!!! The truth hurts!!!

God bless,

The following was taken from Wikipedia. It is about the demographic history of KosovO! "Medieval Serbia" 14th century. The Decani Charter from 1330 contained a detailed list of households and chartered villages in Metohija and northwestern Albania: 3 of 89 settlements were Albanian, the others being non-Albanian. Out of the 2,166 farming homestaeds and 2,666 houses in cattle grazing land, 44 were registered as Albanian (1.8%). Others were registered as Slavic, mostly Serbian. The non-Serbian population of Kosovo didn't exceed 2% by the end of the 14th Century.

To all my Serbian brothers. Do not allow yourself to be baited into irrational arguements with people that don't know their own history. Knowledge is power. Use your voices to tell the truth. In the case of Kosovo, most of the ancient sites are Serbian. Many of the towns have slavic names. This just helps confirm that illegal immigration, high birth rates, and violence lead to succession. We must make sure it never happens again. Protect your borders!
(zm, 19 February 2008 22:54)

zm,
thanks for your comment, I recommended it. Please post a lot more of these historical facts, not only here but everywhere, so the whole world sees how you think. And please tell them the facts of how Albanians occupied your land hundreds of years ago and why they are seen as invaders of Kosovo for that. Please tell that them that the goal of what happened in 1998-99 was to free Kosovo. That should help Serbs a lot in their struggle. It has already helped you a lot. That's why we are here at this point today, the point being that Albanians rejoice and Serbs protest. But I have only one advice, don't use wikipedia as a source, because it is not truthful enough, you know, anybody can write there. Use serbianna.com, it is much more serious and factual.
Keep the work going...
Peace
(shqarthi, 20 February 2008 00:39)


True enough, anyone can edit the articles.. but rubbish is usually removed pretty quickly.

This wikipedia article has been around for quite a while & is well sourced with plenty of credible references.

Is no doubt that Kosovo was the cradle of Serbian culture & they were in overwhelming majority some 500-600 years ago. Plenty of Serbian cultural landmarks around from that period. Where are the Albanian ones?

To D.Laci

Didn't mention 200 but 200 thousands that are currently in switzrerland, basically the largest foreign community (maybe you could ask one of our canton :)
Am also not talking about a few 1000 that are criminals. According to the official statistics more than 50 pct of the drug and prostitution crimes in switzerland are in the hands of K-Albanians, as for thefts that percentage is higher. Am not condemning a nation but sorry there are limits to everything. We have refugees from all around the world and most of them were fully integrated apart from the large majority of K-Albanians and some African countries citizens. We are a very tolerent country but believe me the level of tolerance has long gone. Explain to me why all your "eldorado" citizens (maybe you are one of them) did not return during the last 10 years, K was and still is under the orders and protection of EU! Do you think that the 'forced independance happening' will change the mind of all these expatriates, wishfull thinking. Patriots, no doubts, crazy not!!
As for 99, I certainly do not accept it either, but every war has two faces and two sides, and sorry to say, to understand 99 you should go back a bit and analyze what happend during the YU break-up! Can you then say who really started? The Serbs, the Croats, the Bosnians, the Albanians? All of them have their own responsibilities, all of them had their citizens deported by hundred of thousands, all of them lost a lot of lifes, but there is one common point...the US involvment at the very start of the break-up war..for some reason they again had to put their nose and create mess and finally find a guilty one to cover-up their mess and prove to the world how big and strong they are!
So, nothing is as simple as it seems. If you have the chance, try to find a report that was published on BN (Bosnian TV) 2 nights ago, very interesting and so clearly describing the dirty involment of US during that war. Most of the facts were confirmed by ex politicians, and ex military commanders active during that war!
Kosovo was the last act of the mess started by the US and EU was forced to clean it by trying to impose 'a solution'. If I would be in the K-Albanians shoes I would certainly refuse to accept an imposed unlawfull solution, breaking the basics of UN charter and many more acts, and for what, to cover the dirty job of some 'great powers'!!
The American dream that we all had is long gone...

to Laci, 19 February 2008 18:50)

Well unfortunately we have about 200thds of them...
Yes, I mentioned many times about the drug traffic, because that's what you can unfortunately read every day in the newspapers. Didn't want to mention about the thefts cause there also you have the top spot. Unfortunately until now, our coward politicians had now grounds to act, you were still The Persucated One, now you just gave us a ground :)) Am sorry for those that really were refugees, but have no tolerance and pitty for those who are scrupuless criminals, they will be able now to exercice in their court yard! Too many of them are in our prisons, but at the speed it was going, no space! Just read the comments on the swiss newspaper and you'll find out people's reaction.
There were 10 of thousands partying in Lausanne on the 17th, how many of them will freely return to your unlawfull state and invest their money....., why should they EU is so generous...

@ Illyrian
"If the Serbs in north Mitrovica attempt to separate, and are allowed to do so, THIS would create a precedent for many separatist movements around the world. They are given full rights for a minority which makes up only 5%".

Wouldn't this be a special case?? LOL

"Albanians should accept reality that Serbs do not want to live with them, especially they do not want to be governed by the Albanians and therefore Albanian’s custom officers cannot come to the North" - bmrusila

I think this quote says it all. While for years the Serbs wanted to convince the world that the Albanians should have to live under the Serb occupation, they themselves can't fathom living under the control of any other people than the Serbs themselves. They couldn't live uner the Croatinas in Krajina, nor under the Bosnians in BiH.

After having come under Albanian control for barely a day the Serbs rise up in arms yet Albanians in Kosovo are supposed to put up with years of Serb oppression.

While I'd have liked to see a multi-ethnic Kosovo I think partition would be the better solution as it is almsot impossible to live side by side with the Serbs. It is perhaps time the two people go their separate ways much like the Turks and the Greeks did post-WWI.

Olf says: "Listening to the news it sounds as if Serbian authorities are adopting policies of Al Qaeda terrorists."

He may have a point. If anyone on this site knows Al Qaeda tactics, it is the Kosovo Albanians. They were trained by Al Qaeda.

It is obvious that the border guards were Albanians, since they ran into a tunnel and cried for NATO. This riot group was obviously not little old ladies and children, people the Albanaians are used to abusing.

Keep fighting for Serbia! Washington said there would be no big noise. MAKE BIG NOISE!

I just don't understand how a people can let this go without a fight. I'm an American working here in Kosovo and never supported what we were doing it for. If someone stolen my land I would fight for it. Sand up and take back what's yours. Sick you finger in the face of the EU and the west and say " This is our land and you stay the hell out of our affairs". Were is Russia? Ask for there Military help! If not this Kosovo Independance will start a domino affect around the world.
(Brent, 19 February 2008 16:17)

Hey buddy Brent, with your spelling you are insulting the rest of the American people. If you are by any chance a naturalized citizen, who let you pass the citizenship test?
It seems to me you have an accent, is it Serbian?
Long live the Repblic of Kosova!!!
We really celebrated it in Times Square Sunday afternoon, it was spectacular.

I came by a message wrote by "Brent" who says he is an American working in Kosovo.
By reading is message and his many mistakes in English I suspect that Brent is not American at all since he writes using the worst English I have ever read in B92's forum.

To anybody who does not understand the Serb violence or does not want to try to understand it and just goes poking sarcastic fun at it, I say this to you.

Do you have a mother? Imagine that someone breaks in to your house, ties you up and rapes your mother in front of your eyes. After the fact, nobody is prepared to listen to you or help you in any way.

Please – put your hand on your heart and tell me that you would not become violent in your protest or wish for punishment.

Emotionally, this is exactly what Serbs like myself have to put up with at the moment with the latest farce from the Kosovo Albanian government. Violence is never right and I too deplore it but there are times when even the most devout peace loving Christian feels that it is the only way to express such outrage.

Perhaps if those who are always ready to criticise and punish us would spend more time getting to know who and what we are and – why we are- then we would not be put into situations where we explode emotionally.

Jovan, London

Jovan Maric Said,
“Do you have a mother? Imagine that someone breaks in to your house, ties you up and rapes your mother in front of your eyes. After the fact, nobody is prepared to listen to you or help you in any way.

Please – put your hand on your heart and tell me that you would not become violent in your protest or wish for punishment.”

Jovan
Isn’t this the very same think that the Serbs were doing in Bosnia and Kosovo (Raping and Killing)!!!

@ "The Swiss"

Man. You've been mentioning quite a few times now the "drug control" in your schools and that you're happy that now you can sent them back.

Well there you go, you can benefit as well from Kosovo's independence, your country will be free of drugs from now on.
Queston: when you say that you can sent them back, do you mean that you have identified all of them and you don't want to arrest them cause you couldn't sent them back?

Am sorry for those that really were refugees, but have no tolerance and pitty for those who are scrupuless criminals.
The Swiss, 19 February 2008 20:37)

The Swiss.
I don't think any of us in this forum have any tolerance against criminals, but you have to understand something...You can't call a nation criminals just because some 200 as you say or a 1000 of them are criminals.


How about you say something about what happened in 1999!
I would like to know what's your view on that.

Not much of a country, when after two days, the north is partitioning itself back to mother Serbia. Congratulations EU, you've created another mess. As for the UK, when Scotland and Wales declare independence, Serbia will be the first to show them recognition. As for the USA, get out of Europe you are nothing but trouble. Bush, you should intervene in the genocide in Darfur, what, the Africans don't matter when it comes to genocide?

doni
Congrats on proving my point with your complete understanding of the issues and global affairs. Awesome job! I would hope you understand that the world is at a crucial point right now. Spheres of influence are changing new economic powers are emerging (China, India, Russia). Stability is of a major concern to people that are inteligent. What i am asking for is consistency and a universal approach to ethics. Now i believe i probably lost you at congrats, but to those of you still reading, i believe that ethics applied universally in the case of succession would mean independence for all or none. Anyone that makes an arguement for Kosovo and not Serbia, Kurdistan, maybe the native americans, aboriginal people, etc., is obviously biased. So now that the Albanians have annexed Kosovo (which was proven to be Serbian at one point) I ask Doni where do you stand on the balance of these issues. And please keep from your everyone hates Serbia, Serbia is bad, Serbia is the Devil, etc. I live in America and prior to Kosovo noone ever heard of Albania and those that did knew it for facism, communism, economic pyrimid schemes, drug dealers, etc. Also, let me know which neighboring nations are more concerned about Serbian expansion than Albanian.

Canadian dude said:

It has been widely reported in Western Medias that a new Kosovo passport will be more or less worthless, good only in those countries that recognize the illegal state of Kosovo, which in the end will probabley be less than 25 not including the Muslim countries, this is a far cry from more than 100, as Pristina was harping about just last week.

Dont feel sorry for K-Albanians that can go with visa only in USA and not in Canada. Canada is the backyard of USA . If you can stay in front of the house is no need to stay in the back. LOL.

You better feel sorry for your fellows serbs. After cutting ties with USA and Western Europe they can go with Serbian passport only in Russia and China.

P.S.
Sorry I forgot Vietnam and some of ex-USSR republics

Anyways, I wish a good luck to all of my Serb friends (specially Nick ) here in Detroit and all other K-Albanians .

Most historians can quote hundreds of history books that are writen in various languages throughout the centuries that will testify as to the time frame of various ethnic migrations. It is common knowledge among literate people that the goths drove out the inhabitants of the Balkan peninsula and as they left the Avars and Slavic tribes moved in. It is very well documented that the Albanian population in the Kosovo region was minimal. I bring up this arguement as a rebutal to the Albanians who claim they were in Kosovo first. From a linguistic stand point it is also very easy to determine the origins of town names as well, and hard for Albanians to discount all of this evidence. The Albanian population grew and settled larger areas because of the Slavic tolerance.

Now speaking ethically, if the Albanians have the right to succeed based on a hundred years of struggles, should then the Serbians be afforded the same right to break free from the Turkish yoke in Bosnia, afterall they had over 500 years of suffering at the hands of the Turks. Should the long suffering Kurds be given the same rights? Should we bomb the Muslims of Northern Sudan for the genocide being committed against the chriatian south? The list goes on and on. Most of you miss the point. When does it stop? Why put up more borders if the goal is the European Union? If you claim that the Albanians have more of a case you are biased and prejudice and know nothing of history. And besides we are here at this point , Albanians rejoicing and Serbians protesting due to big business, natural resources, and Western Europes goal of creating small managable nations in Eastern Europe to keep Russia isolated and weak.
PEACE!

shqarthi needs to spend less time at Serbian forums and more time helping his country root out the mob. Typical Albanian response to a fact that doesn't support his views. Show me proof or point me to a website that isn't Muslim or Albanian that proves that the Albanians have an ancieant claim to the land. Give me some data that shows a gradual Albanian population increase in the area, instead of large spikes. Please also tell me that the serbian churches being destroyed are also Serbian propaganda. Tell me that Albanians wearing Nazi uniforms did not take a part in the ethnic cleansing of Serbians. Tell us how you will welcome Serbians with open arms back to their homes. Tell us how by default you now support the Serbians in Bosnia, the Kurds in Turkey, and the existance of the state of Isreal. My views are not tainted by the 90's. I have never read a Serbian book in my life and know nothing of the Cyrilic alphabet. My knowledge will always come from neutral sources and I will always view history as a whole instead of a small part.

"Kosovo" couldn't last for even a week, what a farse. Now watch it return to mother Serbia. What did the US and their puppet allies in the EU think, the Serbs of KOSMET would sit back and watch. Come on Pristina, ask Bush what to say and do.

BAKU WARN YEREVAN NOT TO RECOGNISE INDEPENDENT KOSOVO
20.2.2008 13:23 BAKU, (Tanjug) - A unilateral recognition of Kosovo independence is contrary to international regulations and it does not represent a precedent for the dispute over Nagorno Karabakh, Azerbaijani Deputy Foreign Minister Araz Azimov said on Wednesday.
.
DEP:CROATIA-SERBIA-SANADER
NOT UP TO CROATIA TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE FOR SERBIA, SANADER
20.2.2008 13:08 ZAGREB, (Tanjug) - Croatian Prime Minister Ivo Sanader said on Wednesday that Serbia was in a difficult spot and that Croatia was not about to make matters worse for it, and reiterated that his country would recognise Kosovo when the time came for that and when the majority of EU countries do so.

DEP:SLOVAKIA-KOSOVO-CAPLOVIC
CAPLOVIC CALLS KOSOVO DROGO'S LAND OF DRUGS
20.2.2008 12:58 BRATISLAVA, (Tanjug) - Slovakia's Deputy Prime Minister and and Minister for Knowledge-Based Society, European Affairs, Human Rights and Minorities, Dusan Caplovic, has called Kosovo Drogo's land of drugs, and said that he will never vote for the province's independence.

DEP:BULGARIA-STANISHEV-KOSOVO
NOT POSSIBLE FOR KOSOVO TO BECOME UN MEMBER, STANISEV
20.2.2008 12:40 SOFIA, (Tanjug) - Bulgarian Prime Minister Sergei Stanishev has assessed it was not possible for Kosovo to become a UN member, given the position of Serbia and other countries.


DEP:GREECE-KOSOVO-PASOK
PASOK URGES GREEK GOVERNMENT NOT TO RECOGNISE KOSOVO
20.2.2008 11:05 ATHENS, (Tanjug) - PASOK (Panhellenic Socialist Movement), the biggest party of the Greek opposition, called on the Greek government on Tuesday not to recognise the unilaterally proclaimed independence of Kosovo.


DEP:BOSNIA-SRPSKA-MONTENEGRO-KOSOVO
RADOJICIC - KOSOVO'S SECESSION VIOLATES INTERNATIONAL ORDER
19.2.2008 19:22 BANJA LUKA, (Tanjug) - Kosovo's secession violates the international legal order established in post-WWII Europe in which the principle of territorial integrity and sovereignty of internationally recognised states has prevailed, Republika Srpska parliament speaker Igor Radojicic said in Banja Luka on Tuesday, during a meeting with Montenegrin parliament speaker Ranko Krivokapic.

DEP:KOSOVO-INDEPENDENCE-ROMA
ROMA COMMUNITY WILL NOT RECOGNIZE KOSOVO INDEPENDENCE
19.2.2008 19:13 BELGRADE, (Tanjug) - The Roma National Council denied Tuesday allegations that this community has accepted the decision of the interim Kosovo parliament to unilaterally declare independence of the province.

DEP:UNMIK-POLICE
DEP:US-KOSOVO-PRESS
WASHINGTON TIMES: NEW JIHADI STATE IN EUROPE
19.2.2008 17:06 WASHINGTON, (Tanjug) - It seems that Kosovo will be a new sovereign state, but this weak, perpetually inefficient and poor statelet will not be in the interest of the United States, the conservative paper The Washigton Times said on Tuesday.

DEP:GERMANY-KOSOVO-LEFT
DISMEMBERMENT OF BALKANS DUE TO KOSOVO INDEPENDENCE, LEFT
19.2.2008 16:24 BERLIN, (Tanjug) - The Left Party of Germany, which succeeded the former East German communists, warned Tuesday that, following the unilateral declaration of the independence of Kosovo, the Balkans are threatened by dismemberment.

DEP:FRANCE-CORSICA-KOSOVO
CORSICAN SEPARATISTS WELCOME KOSOVO INDEPENDENCE
19.2.2008 16:12 PARIS, (Tanjug) - :FRANCE-CORSICA-KOSOVO Corsican separatists welcome Kosovo independence PARIS, Feb 19 (Tanjug) - The Independent Corsican Nation (CNI) on Tuesday welcomed with ''delight'' the unilateral declaration of the independence of Kosovo and the ''brotherly Kosovo people'', the French media have reported.

DEP:AUSTRIA-KOSOVO-FPO
STRACHE: KOSOVO INDEPENDENCE VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW
19.2.2008 16:04 VIENNA, (Tanjug) - The unilateral proclamation of the independence of Kosovo is contrary to international law and presents a violation of United Nations (UN) Security Council Resolution

It is very confusing situation,serbians were always use to say us ''hey,albanians forget about independent,that's dream only'' but by miracle that dream become true.

It is amazing to see all these inconsistencies within my serbian friends.

First, what happened to the issue that "we do not recognize as legitimate one EU mission because it implies the independence of Republic of Kosova"? Wasn't this the sentence you've been saying for months (people you have voted for)?
Second, even if this is not the case, what is all about the northern Mitrovica? If you demand the partition of it, you automatically recognize the Republic of Kosova with its constitution and flag (remember there is the map in the flag, and that is for a purpose, hehehe).
And, last but not least, I wonder if you saw the protest just near the bridge by serbs, it was the police of the Republic of Kosova standing in front, not KFOR, not UNMIK police, I was interviewing there and saw it live.

Albion, Massimo

Why getting so aggresiv on someone that do not share your view, Brent might be american or not, he simply does not accept this unlawfull decision, like I don't either, like millions in this world do not.
So many people feel today ashame of their own citizenship because of their politicians, am one of them! I believe this is our legitimate right not to accept a clear unlawfull act like most of us didn't accept the lies told to justify the war in Iraq. Am glad that am part of these people for whom the respect of others integrity and the respect of laws is important. The history is like a boomerang and sooner or later it will hit those dirty tricks players.

To all pro and contra

Any comments on this, or they are and will remain the long lost not interesting far away cases....


Other Separatists Ask 'Why Not Us?'
By Kazbek Basayev
Reuters

AP
Sergei Bagapsh

SUKHUMI, Georgia -- Residents of one disputed sliver of land in the former Soviet Union are asking: If Kosovo can be recognized as an independent state, why can't we?

Georgia's rebel region of Abkhazia on the Black Sea coast is one of four former Soviet regions that declared their independence in the 1990s and fought separatist wars but that have not been recognized as states.

In Sukhumi, the Abkhaz capital that in places still bears scars of the fighting against Georgian troops, officials and citizens said they hoped that Kosovo would create a legal precedent that they too could follow.

"If they recognized Kosovo, how are we any worse?" said Nodar Sheoua, a student standing in a slushy Sukhumi street.

Kosovo declared its independence from Serbia on Sunday. A number of countries have given formal recognition to Kosovo.

Western backers of Kosovo's independence say it does not set a precedent, but the former Soviet regions call this a double standard that will now be harder to defend.

Home to 200,000 people, Abkhazia has run its own affairs since driving out Georgian forces. The mountainous region, which borders Russia, has its own flag, elected government and armed forces.

Georgia refuses to relinquish its claim over either Abkhazia or South Ossetia -- a stance backed by Tbilisi's Western allies.


Tuta Akhuba, a teacher, said the next step had to come from Russia. Moscow is Abkhazia's biggest backer but has not recognized it as a state.

"All this depends on our President [Vladimir] Putin," Akhuba said. "We ourselves depend on him. ... Our hopes rest on Putin, and Russia should be the first to recognize us."

Abkhazia's separatist president, Sergei Bagapsh, said at a news conference in Moscow on Monday that his region was just as entitled to recognition as Kosovo.

"We will shortly apply to the leadership of Russia, the CIS countries, the UN and other international organizations to recognize our independence," Bagapsh said.

In Tbilisi, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili rejected the idea of Kosovo as a precedent.

Asked if Georgia would recognize Kosovo, Saakashvili said, "Right now we are all preoccupied with other things -- whether this will have consequences in terms of provocations, stirring up trouble locally, and we are hoping to avoid wars here."

Transdnestr, which seceded from Moldova, said Kosovo proved that international rules on the inviolability of borders "were receding into history."

"Kosovo's recognition produces a new system of measures that we believe should be applied to all countries," said Yevgeny Shevchuk, speaker of the separatist parliament, the Novy Region web site reported

And besides we are here at this point , Albanians rejoicing and Serbians protesting due to big business, natural resources, and Western Europes goal of creating small managable nations in Eastern Europe to keep Russia isolated and weak.
PEACE!
(zm, 20 February 2008 05:21)

zm,
we dont care if russia is isolated or weak. whats our profit.

maybe you are taking about serbia?? which want to be great, and strong, but will never be, never.
and natural resources are for Kosovars, not serbia.
while big business is for the big powers, not serbia

None of us really know what's going on on the ground--to what extent (if any) the protesters are prodded by Belgrade, or to what extent (if any) the KLA or their successors are harrassing the Serbs. It is true, as a poster pointed out, that life under a closely scrutinized Kosovo government may be better than what Belgrade has to offer at least right now. But after 2004, the Albanian folks will have to realize that it will be very hard for Serbs to just put their faith in that. In the end, the sad fact is that the Serbian government is a mess, while the independence arrangement has a fair amount of autonomy built in that might allow the northern Serbs to have their lives back. Partition does serve the interests of people in Belgrade who want access to the relatively resource-rich north--but whether it would serve the intersts of northern Kosovo Serbs on a human level, I don't think we know. I wonder (and don't know the answer to) whether those people who have been living and suffering there for so many years improve their lives more under Belgrade or Pristina.

"Albanians should accept reality that Serbs do not want to live with them, especially they do not want to be governed by the Albanians and therefore Albanian’s custom officers cannot come to the North.-bmrusila"
Then you wander why kosova albanians couldn't accept anything but independence. Unforunatly, there are still lots of serbs dreaming of ethnic clensing of Kosova and that albaninans should just roll over and die or pack up and leave their homes and everything and go to Albania. See, the reality is that 90% of Kosova are albanian by nationality and for decades now (even centauries) have been denied our basic rights by Belgrade politics and you're still wandering why is Kosova independent and why Kosova has most, if not all, the most democratic countries behind them. Kosova belongs to all Kosova people including serbs and there is gonna be Kosova customs and police soon whether bmrusila likes it or no. Peace

gregovic, it's still early, would you be willing to say that Serbia should recognize the Republic of Kosova if more than half the countries in the World recognize it? If not, then please be quiet about the number and just wait.

I've been observing the situation from a distance in Australia. The Serbs are upset at the situation and appear to be hopeful of support from Russia, Greece, Spain and others. What they can actually do to change the situation in a meaningful way to Serbs I am not sure.
The Albanians are exuberant in their display of joy here. We have seen much of their partying on the TV news. This is compared with the odd handful of protests by Serbs where they go off and do something stupid like throw bottles at police cars. What does this do? The general public then thinks why do 'you people' bring your old conflicts to this country - then go off and support the peaceful Albanians.
It would be great for Serbs to unite and protest together globally - do so peacefully but loudly. Don't go off and act like violent thugs throwing bottles, burning down property or whatever to prove a point. That is not the way to get support on your side.
The Albanian PR machine has obviously done an excellent job and much of the Western and Islamic communities are on the side of an Independent Kosovo. In fact, Australian media report that the Kosovo Albanians are finally free after a 100-year struggle. Honestly what can I as a Serb say to this. Most do not understand what the struggle is or why the Serbs are so attached to Kosovo. To be honest, I do not think they really care. I think that the international community just wants this 'problem' solved - and they think this is the solution.
Unfortunately Serbia is not in a great position - economically, politically or socially - for the international community to really care about our opinion.

Massimo (posting # 92),

Apparently you are not fluent in English either. "I came by a message wrote by Brent" should be "I came by a message WRITTEN by Brent", and "by reading is message" should be "by reading HIS message".

gregovic, it's still early, would you be willing to say that Serbia should recognize the Republic of Kosova if more than half the countries in the World recognize it? If not, then please be quiet about the number and just wait.
(AC, 19 February 2008 22:01)

Doesnt' matter how many countries recognize the illegal state of Kosovo, it contradicts the international order of the world, the UN and the Helsinki Accords.

As for as this comment"

"If not, then please be quiet about the number and just wait."

This is a democratic forum where all opinions are allowed unlike the state of Kosovo.

So dont' tell me, Serbians, Albanians , Roma's, Romanians, Poles or any other person to "Be quiet"

George
I love your reply to Jovan Maric and how quickly you discount Serbian pain by saying that innocent victims are deserving because of a past crime committed by other serbs. Yet if you were to add up all of the atrocities that the Muslims in Kosovo and Bosnia inflicted on the Serbs than by your logic Albanians and Bosnians are not victims since they killed and raped more innocent people over a longer time frame. From now on double standards should be known as Albanian standards. Does your world and history revolve around the last twenty years? Most Serbians can go back hundreds of years and in each generation name family that was abused or killed by Bosniak Turks, Albanians, and Nazis.

If the Serbs in north Mitrovica attempt to separate, and are allowed to do so, THIS would create a precedent for many separatist movements around the world. They are given full rights for a minority which makes up only 5%.

“You see, this is what happens when you try and take away something precious and dear to the people. Looks like partition is closer than we think. Goodbye Kosovo, hello North Kosovo and South Kosovo. People, we have a new Veitnam on our hands.”

What a joke. Radical Serbs cannot do anymore what they have done in 90's creating mini-republics in Croatia and Bosnia because THERE IS NO SERB TROOPS IN WHOLE KOSOVO. Kosovo is fully controlled by NATO, UN and EU, and nothing will happen without the approval of these 3 entities, mainly NATO.

The words of minister Samardjic in the interview that he gave B92's Poligraf and the actions in the Northern border between Kosova and Serbia are making Serbia look like a laughing stock of the West.
People, change your politicians. You are going NOWHERE because of them.
Dont forget one thing: Kosova is an Independent country now and the KFOR will defend its territorial integrity!!!

I am pretty sure that the policy of violence will bring peace and prosperity to the Serbian nation. It has been so in the last 20 years, right?

Peter wrote
“Seems to me that it was a pretty stupid & provocative act to send K-albanian customs officers into the north.”
.
Peter they were UNMIK customs officers not K-albanians!! The serbs thought that there were K-Albanian.

"Is no doubt that Kosovo was the cradle of Serbian culture & they were in overwhelming majority some 500-600 years ago. Plenty of Serbian cultural landmarks around from that period. Where are the Albanian ones?"
(peter, sydney, 20 February 2008 02:08)

I am not arguing with that peter. I can admit that it is true. Serbs were the majority 500-600 years ago. My source is Noel Malcolm's book on Kosovo, I believe him, he is not a Balkanian historian.

The Serb majority 600 years ago doesn't mean anything for today though. Do you want to return to 600 years ago? You are saying to the world: their great-great....grandfathers killed mine.
All I read these days in the western media is the "historical heartland".
First that's not a strong point, talking about 600 years ago. And it sounds so contradictory. If Kosovo was your historical heartland, why was it so neglected and poor during the last 90 years? It resembled a colony, not a historical heartland. Please, spare me racist answers.
Your "Cradle of Serbian Culture" should be respected by everybody, starting in the first place by you. This phrase has been used so much in an anti-albanian key in the last 100 years, that one starts thinking you don't really understand the meaning of it and you don't respect it. You are just interested in it as a tool in a war. You have downgraded it to a tool. This also shows that you don't really care deeply about the "Cradle of Serbian Culture", because if you use in this way you expose it to attacks.

zm,
Wikipedia is not the best source of information. The most stubborn wins there.

So i've solved the mystery of where the Albanians came from. The Caucasus http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Kurdish_Kingdoms_of_Corduene-Sophene.jpg
Check the top right...this was circa 60BC

I guess Illyria stretched this far, eh guys?

I hope this chaos phase is only temporary and I wish the best to Serbian people!

shqarthi,

Your arguements make no sense. My point about the history of the population of Kosovo shows Slav settlement which predates Albanian settlement for the people claiming ancient rites to it. Nothing less, nothing more. And there is no doubt that the Albanians were in the Balkan peninsula before the Slavs it was just well south of Kosovo. You also need to understand that i've read many books on the subject and the Wikipedia reference is getting old. Your claims about Kosovo being abandoned and run down coincide with the time frame of the Albanian migrations and the expelling of Serbians by Albanians and proves my point not yours.

All that aside. Let me ask you a few questions. Since you believe that by default, based on recent population shifts and Serbian aggression against Albanians, that the majority rules theory can be applied and that small areas of countries with differing ethnic minorities can establish a majority and succeed. Then do you believe that the Mitrovica area should become Serbian? Do you believe that all of the Serbians expelled from Croatia should be returned and given independence? Afterall, according to your theory the Serbians had a right to wage a war of succession against the Croats since they were currently the majority in a small area of Croatia and that they had a right to be violent in their pursuit because the Croats killed over 700,000 serbs in WWII, way more atrocities than the Albanians ever experienced at the hands of the Serbs. Now be carefull how you answer the question so that you do not expose yourself as a racist or contradict Kosovo's reason for existence. Next Question. Do you believe that the state of Isreal deserves to exist? And if not, why? Be careful again when you answer. Last question, do you believe that the Kurds have a right to succeed? There are twenty five million people without a country. The last two were pretty tough, because it would go against the Islamic majority. My point with all of these questions is that the World is a big place. Although Kosovo is all that is on your mind there are people all around the world waiting for the same privledge. Be consistent and universal in your thinking or it means nothing.

shqarthi
I want you to know that one day i hope all of this is water under the bridge and that all children will have the same chance to live in safety and have long prosperous lives. And actually my library which has many Balkan Historians has also taught me the differnce between a Gheg and a Tosk and the proud history of George Castriot (Skanderbeg). I know the Tosk lived in the mountainous north and the Ghegs to the south. I know that the Romans valued Albanians as soldiers due to their bravery and loyalty. I know they fought the Turks bravely for years and just want a chance to forge their own identity. Both Albanian and Serbain people have been blessed to be part of the Balkans. But it is also a curse. Not because of the land and people but because all of the invading forces that have created this climate of hate. I recommend you read The Early and Late Medieval Balkans by John V.A. Fine, Jr., The Ottoman Centuries By Lord Kinross, The Wrath of Nations by William Pfaff, and Empire on the Adriatic by H. James Burgwyn. And for the love of God please forgive me for quoting Wikipedia. And as a Serbian i must close with I am still right and you are wrong. Take Care.

KFOR and Kosovo police should arrest these vandals who damage the property of the newest state in the world - Kosova. immediately.

I guess you can't really blame albanians for these attacks can you?

Is it possible that even serbs can resort to violence? No need to answer - the answer is pretty clear to everyone apart from some serbs.

Lets hope that there is no violence from any side in the future.

Listening to the news it sounds as if Serbian authorities are adopting policies of Al Qaeda terrorists. Burning, throwing bombs at different sites in Kosova and Serbia where people shop and work is Al Qaeda style work.
Was this the secret plan of the Serbian authorities? – Good luck to Serbs with these politicians.

You see, this is what happens when you try and take away something precious and dear to the people. Looks like partition is closer than we think. Goodbye Kosovo, hello North Kosovo and South Kosovo. People, we have a new Veitnam on our hands.
(strav, 19 February 2008 14:05)
You better not dream on partition because then it is 'Goodbye Serbia'.

Well, my dear Serbian neighbors, I guess that’s it with democratic protesting means. Situation has escalated. Do you really think exploding something will give you any good? Answer is big NO. I can feel that some Serbians are upset, but that doesn’t give them the right to blow up check points. The way you started, you will lose Kosovo (even though you lost it on February, 17) faster than you thought. This will give more power to your politicians to continue lying you that Kosovo is still Serbian. In a philosophic way they are right: Republic of Kosovo is Serbian, as much as it is Albanian, Roma, Turkish, Egyptian ect. Kosovo belongs to Kosovars.

The only thing I can do is ask you all to accept the reality. I can assure you that in Republic of Kosovo you will have a better life than you had until now. Let it go. Kosovo has declared Independence and it was accepted by US, GB, I, F, DE and lot of other powerful countries. End of chapter. History has written 17 February 2008 as day of Kosovo’s Independence. No one can change that.

Mike

Masked men burning the Border Crossing point, burning UN and KPS vehicles, attacking Serb reporters, throwing bombs near the OEBS offices, also attacking Merkator, Embassies, McDonald, Albanian property, made me say that. It really looks like Al Qaeda style work doesn’t it. You should condemn it instead.

As for your predictions about K-Albanian actions, I think that you have exaggerated a bit.

Pardon me if I am wrong, but didn't Serbs say that they shall not be the ones to start provocations and would keep their cool when provoked by Albanians.

Well, well, well....

I believe that this will stop one this vandals get tired in couple of days. Though, the scars of this behaviour remain to ordinary people to deal with.

Many of poster in here like Princip, Kate, Jovan, bmrusila etc have until lately fed the ambitions if these vandals. I wonder where are Princip, Kate etc now. Are just maybe sitting in one of London nicest cafés drinking coffee and discussing the next steps that Serbs should take, of course away form Kosova and Serbia. All of those mentioned above have told Serbs that Kosova has no chance of becoming Independent and that there are not going to be recognised etc. It turned that they have deceived Serbs badly, just like Milosevic in 90s. As a result if this vandals are using the situation to sent a wrong message to the world about Serbs. I think that talk of hate should stop and people that entice hate should once and for always stop doing that.

"Now, the funniest of all is that police sheltered in tunnel and ordered the KFOR helicopter to evacuate them. So, I wonder who they are going to protect but themselves. They are totally incapable of keeping the order. I wonder when the KFOR is going to do exactly the same, to evacuate due to incapability to provide safety.
(bmrusila, 19 February 2008 15:33) "

While its funny to you and some other serbs who are probably used to serbian police tactics of shooting and beating protesters and massacring innocents, i would say it was a smart move to evacuate.

Would you think it was funny, if KPS opened fire at these thugs, which would probably result at the death of these thugs and even police officers, which in turn would have lead to great deteoriation of the situation and the spread of violence in other parts of Kosovo? Would that be funny?

I applaud the professionalism of the police and their cool heads in that tense situation.

And I urge all albanians not to fall prey to these provocations coming from Belgrade. Let Kostunica have his fun and boost his nationalistic ego, until he gets overthrown for isolating Serbia and causing even more damage to K. Serbs.

to strav;

Here we can see how serious the negotiations were since the serbs from the beggining the made DELIMITATION. The Serbs can do what ever they want but do not forget that International Community is there.

I couldn’t resist but write one more time. This is getting very funny. Not even 24 hours ago, some of you guys said that “Kosovo belongs to Serbia- period” and you are happy with north Mitrovica only. The only thing I can say about it, KEEP DREAMING. Kosovo will not get divided. K- Serbs from north Mitrovica have every right to protest, Kosovo is a Democratic. If they continue to blow things up, they will be classified as terrorists and you all know the consequences.

Romania, Greece and Cyprus are no factor in Europe but Great Britain, Germany, France, Italy, Slovenia, Sweden, Finland, Netherlands, Belgium and the rest are. Most of you guys dream to live in those countries.

Kosovo has its own government. EU- LEX in Kosovo has only an advisory mission. Advising and Leading are two totally different things. Don’t forget that those countries are giving billions of EUROS for Kosovo. Every country in the world and especially poor countries like Serbia and others in Balkans would love to have such a mission in their country. Getting billions and help. A dream is coming true.

Bmrusila and Co.

You said Kosova will never declare Independence but as it happened, they did. You said no country will recognize Republic of Kosova but as it is happening they are recognizing Kosova. Total, so far, are, please check the link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reaction_to_the_2008_Kosovo_declaration_of_independence

As for your comment about Kosova's police and their call for evacuation.

Well what can I say, had the police did their job, and you know what's their job is, to keep law and order, that would've meant to stop those Serbs from blowing those checkpoints and arrest them. If they resisted then police would've had to use force, just like police in Belgrade. Had they done this, their job, then what say you Bmrusila and CO?
I bet my life that you would've bombarded us here with comments like: they are beating innocent people, innocent and peaceful protesters, this is how Kosova's police are, beating Serbs, killing them etc. etc. I wouldn't be surprised if you call for all Serbs to stand up and go to Kosova to fight.

Funny how you didn't say the same things about Belgrade's police for allowing similar hooligans attacking foreign embassies, Serbian MP's house and B92. Had the Serbia's police did their job, whatever your definition for police's job might be, then none of that would've happened. But as for your liking, Serbia's police did both things, they allowed the hoolgans to attack and destroy and then, only later, they start doing what they are supposed to do, stopping and arresting those hooligans.

Now Bmrusila, which was the right thing to do, for both countries' police, to intervene straight-away, try to stop hooligans, if resisted then arrest them and if that wouldn't help then beat them in order to keep the peace and order? Or to allow them and let them do what they please? It seems that for Kosova's police and its institution is no win situation when it comes to your comments.

Thaci emerged as the Nelson Mandela of the Balkans this weekend, and Kostunica looked and sounded like a tired USSR socialist leader. The behaviour of supporters of Serbia has once again shamed the country. Whilst Kosovo is attracting global support, Serbia is retreating, by withdrawing its ambassadors of those countries who do not agree with it. Serbia are welcome to Spain, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania and Cyprus. Kosovars will be happy to be in a union with the rest of the EU. Those who call for partition of Kosovo are really alknowledging Kosovo's right to independence, as they are calling for the same thing for North Mitrovica. Kosovo is the most popular country on earth this week, and no amount of violence, threats from the usual sources in Serbia will change this.

People, we have a new Veitnam on our hands.
(strav, 19 February 2008 14:05)

Comparing few thugs burning border posts with Vietnam War!
Did you have to think long to find that analogy?

I watched the webcast of SC meeting last night and I listened to Mr Tadic's speech and in particular when he was talking about how peaceful Serbian people are and how they are not going to resort to violence ever again.

Reading this article, I understand what Mr Tadic meant.

God bless

"Albanians should accept reality that Serbs do not want to live with them, especially they do not want to be governed by the Albanians and therefore Albanian’s custom officers cannot come to the North.-bmrusila"
Then you wander why kosova albanians couldn't accept anything but independence. Unforunatly, there are still lots of serbs dreaming of ethnic clensing of Kosova and that albaninans should just roll over and die or pack up and leave their homes and everything and go to Albania. See, the reality is that 90% of Kosova are albanian by nationality and for decades now (even centauries) have been denied our basic rights by Belgrade politics and you're still wandering why is Kosova independent and why Kosova has most, if not all, the most democratic countries behind them. Kosova belongs to all Kosova people including serbs and there is gonna be Kosova customs and police soon whether bmrusila likes it or no. Peace

You see, this is what happens when you try and take away something precious and dear to the people. Looks like partition is closer than we think. Goodbye Kosovo, hello North Kosovo and South Kosovo. People, we have a new Veitnam on our hands.

good move from you:insecurity in north of kosovo will bring us jobs and investissements,for sure!!!
just how long serbia will pay you to make all this troubles?

The following was taken from Wikipedia. It is about the demographic history of KosovO! "Medieval Serbia" 14th century. The Decani Charter from 1330 contained a detailed list of households and chartered villages in Metohija and northwestern Albania: 3 of 89 settlements were Albanian, the others being non-Albanian. Out of the 2,166 farming homestaeds and 2,666 houses in cattle grazing land, 44 were registered as Albanian (1.8%). Others were registered as Slavic, mostly Serbian. The non-Serbian population of Kosovo didn't exceed 2% by the end of the 14th Century.

To all my Serbian brothers. Do not allow yourself to be baited into irrational arguements with people that don't know their own history. Knowledge is power. Use your voices to tell the truth. In the case of Kosovo, most of the ancient sites are Serbian. Many of the towns have slavic names. This just helps confirm that illegal immigration, high birth rates, and violence lead to succession. We must make sure it never happens again. Protect your borders!
(zm, 19 February 2008 22:54)

zm,
thanks for your comment, I recommended it. Please post a lot more of these historical facts, not only here but everywhere, so the whole world sees how you think. And please tell them the facts of how Albanians occupied your land hundreds of years ago and why they are seen as invaders of Kosovo for that. Please tell that them that the goal of what happened in 1998-99 was to free Kosovo. That should help Serbs a lot in their struggle. It has already helped you a lot. That's why we are here at this point today, the point being that Albanians rejoice and Serbs protest. But I have only one advice, don't use wikipedia as a source, because it is not truthful enough, you know, anybody can write there. Use serbianna.com, it is much more serious and factual.
Keep the work going...
Peace

Do u think that Kosova Police didnt have the courage to fight with those so called thugs??
Kosova Police has very close relation with K-For (u prefer Nato) and Unmik Police...and they were told not to shoot, because thats what serbs wanted..
Its all about the politics...serbs can continue and burn whatever they want (of course only on the North, cuz in the other parts its impossible)

“Mike

Masked men burning the Border Crossing point, burning UN and KPS vehicles, attacking Serb reporters, throwing bombs near the OEBS offices, also attacking Merkator, Embassies, McDonald, Albanian property, made me say that. It really looks like Al Qaeda style work doesn’t it. You should condemn it instead.

As for your predictions about K-Albanian actions, I think that you have exaggerated a bit.
(Olf, 19 February 2008 17:46) “

Mike,
How are the terrorists the Muslim Albanian like our friends, Princip, Kate, Jovan, bmrusila and don’t for get CCCC say!!! Or the true color of the Serbs come out(Bombing, Burning, Attracting and soon Killing). Just like in the 90’s (Serbs Terrorizing Croatians, Bosnians, and Albanians and blaming the out side when they retaliate)!!! The truth hurts!!!

God bless,

NO partition of Kosova, no embargo from Serbia ( in fact Serbia started selling energy to Kosova from saturday night so therefore Serbia contributed with energy so Kosovars could celebrate Independence Day in a better way).
Only some hooligans trying to destroy checkpoints but they were "calmed down".
I havent seen PRINCIP lately here, I hope he is well and i wish him well. I havent seen also some others who were thinking that Independence of Kosova will not happen but finally it happened.
THank you B92 for letting us be in contact with the people of Serbia.

gregovic, it's still early, would you be willing to say that Serbia should recognize the Republic of Kosova if more than half the countries in the World recognize it? If not, then please be quiet about the number and just wait.

Serbs are simply defending their country.

North of the Ibar is certainly not "Kosova". Pristina has no authority there, and will have no authority there. What's NATO's option to enforce compliance? Another aerial bombardment? Oh yes, I can already see how an "independent" Kosovo is going to bring peace and stability to the region.

I just don't understand how a people can let this go without a fight. I'm an American working here in Kosovo and never supported what we were doing it for. If someone stolen my land I would fight for it. Sand up and take back what's yours. Sick you finger in the face of the EU and the west and say " This is our land and you stay the hell out of our affairs". Were is Russia? Ask for there Military help! If not this Kosovo Independance will start a domino affect around the world.

Peter wrote
“Seems to me that it was a pretty stupid & provocative act to send K-albanian customs officers into the north.”
.
Peter they were UNMIK customs officers not K-albanians!! The serbs thought that there were K-Albanian.

“Mike

Masked men burning the Border Crossing point, burning UN and KPS vehicles, attacking Serb reporters, throwing bombs near the OEBS offices, also attacking Merkator, Embassies, McDonald, Albanian property, made me say that. It really looks like Al Qaeda style work doesn’t it. You should condemn it instead.

As for your predictions about K-Albanian actions, I think that you have exaggerated a bit.
(Olf, 19 February 2008 17:46) “

Mike,
How are the terrorists the Muslim Albanian like our friends, Princip, Kate, Jovan, bmrusila and don’t for get CCCC say!!! Or the true color of the terrorists Serbs come out(Bombing, Burning, Attracting and soon Killing). Just like in the 90’s (Serbs Terrorizing Croatians, Bosnians, and Albanians and blaming the out side when they retaliate)!!! The truth hurts!!!

God bless,

Whatever they think they're doing it will never work. While Serbs of Kosova will waste their time burning kiosks and shouting in the air, Albanians of Kosova will sent their kids to school, make lawyers, doctors and businessmen out of them, prosper and get rich, and maybe start buying homes in Belgrade :-). Kfor will stay in the international border between Serbia and Kosova for an unspecified amount of time, probably for the next 50 years, while Serbs of Kosova will never belong ANYWHERE. They will self-eliminate themselves from the map without anyone doing anything. These stupid reactions will only make things worse for Serbs only, wherever they are. Good luck!

The words of minister Samardjic in the interview that he gave B92's Poligraf and the actions in the Northern border between Kosova and Serbia are making Serbia look like a laughing stock of the West.
People, change your politicians. You are going NOWHERE because of them.
Dont forget one thing: Kosova is an Independent country now and the KFOR will defend its territorial integrity!!!

It is very confusing situation,serbians were always use to say us ''hey,albanians forget about independent,that's dream only'' but by miracle that dream become true.

Canadian dude said:

It has been widely reported in Western Medias that a new Kosovo passport will be more or less worthless, good only in those countries that recognize the illegal state of Kosovo, which in the end will probabley be less than 25 not including the Muslim countries, this is a far cry from more than 100, as Pristina was harping about just last week.

Dont feel sorry for K-Albanians that can go with visa only in USA and not in Canada. Canada is the backyard of USA . If you can stay in front of the house is no need to stay in the back. LOL.

You better feel sorry for your fellows serbs. After cutting ties with USA and Western Europe they can go with Serbian passport only in Russia and China.

P.S.
Sorry I forgot Vietnam and some of ex-USSR republics

Anyways, I wish a good luck to all of my Serb friends (specially Nick ) here in Detroit and all other K-Albanians .

It is amazing to see all these inconsistencies within my serbian friends.

First, what happened to the issue that "we do not recognize as legitimate one EU mission because it implies the independence of Republic of Kosova"? Wasn't this the sentence you've been saying for months (people you have voted for)?
Second, even if this is not the case, what is all about the northern Mitrovica? If you demand the partition of it, you automatically recognize the Republic of Kosova with its constitution and flag (remember there is the map in the flag, and that is for a purpose, hehehe).
And, last but not least, I wonder if you saw the protest just near the bridge by serbs, it was the police of the Republic of Kosova standing in front, not KFOR, not UNMIK police, I was interviewing there and saw it live.

And besides we are here at this point , Albanians rejoicing and Serbians protesting due to big business, natural resources, and Western Europes goal of creating small managable nations in Eastern Europe to keep Russia isolated and weak.
PEACE!
(zm, 20 February 2008 05:21)

zm,
we dont care if russia is isolated or weak. whats our profit.

maybe you are taking about serbia?? which want to be great, and strong, but will never be, never.
and natural resources are for Kosovars, not serbia.
while big business is for the big powers, not serbia

FREEDOM TO NORTH-KOSOVO!!!

I would not be surprised if the rightful owners of that land reach out for self-defense...

at last, they´ve got the UN-Charter and especially UNSC 1244 on their side!

ah..by the way, for our albanian friends:

http://pajamasmedia.com/2008/02/kosovo_is_not_independent.php

looks like you will indeed realize some day soon that you´ve been duped.

Serbia is near and will come back. that´s something you certainly can count on.

You better not dream on partition because then it is 'Goodbye Serbia'.
(K-Alb, 19 February 2008 14:30)

Because you say so? You are a comedian. Remember you tried a rebellion in Preshevo, just remind me how that ended up.

Facts, pure and simple, you never had control of the North and looks like you never will.NATO are bound by Resolution 1244 which means when the Serbs in the North revolt against Pristina, NATO must protect them. Do you understand this logic.

Partition is starting.
NATO will not shoot at Serbs, otherwise it will be beginning of III World War.

Am sorry for those that really were refugees, but have no tolerance and pitty for those who are scrupuless criminals.
The Swiss, 19 February 2008 20:37)

The Swiss.
I don't think any of us in this forum have any tolerance against criminals, but you have to understand something...You can't call a nation criminals just because some 200 as you say or a 1000 of them are criminals.


How about you say something about what happened in 1999!
I would like to know what's your view on that.

I just don't understand how a people can let this go without a fight. I'm an American working here in Kosovo and never supported what we were doing it for. If someone stolen my land I would fight for it. Sand up and take back what's yours. Sick you finger in the face of the EU and the west and say " This is our land and you stay the hell out of our affairs". Were is Russia? Ask for there Military help! If not this Kosovo Independance will start a domino affect around the world.
(Brent, 19 February 2008 16:17)

Hey buddy Brent, with your spelling you are insulting the rest of the American people. If you are by any chance a naturalized citizen, who let you pass the citizenship test?
It seems to me you have an accent, is it Serbian?
Long live the Repblic of Kosova!!!
We really celebrated it in Times Square Sunday afternoon, it was spectacular.

None of us really know what's going on on the ground--to what extent (if any) the protesters are prodded by Belgrade, or to what extent (if any) the KLA or their successors are harrassing the Serbs. It is true, as a poster pointed out, that life under a closely scrutinized Kosovo government may be better than what Belgrade has to offer at least right now. But after 2004, the Albanian folks will have to realize that it will be very hard for Serbs to just put their faith in that. In the end, the sad fact is that the Serbian government is a mess, while the independence arrangement has a fair amount of autonomy built in that might allow the northern Serbs to have their lives back. Partition does serve the interests of people in Belgrade who want access to the relatively resource-rich north--but whether it would serve the intersts of northern Kosovo Serbs on a human level, I don't think we know. I wonder (and don't know the answer to) whether those people who have been living and suffering there for so many years improve their lives more under Belgrade or Pristina.

@ "The Swiss"

Man. You've been mentioning quite a few times now the "drug control" in your schools and that you're happy that now you can sent them back.

Well there you go, you can benefit as well from Kosovo's independence, your country will be free of drugs from now on.
Queston: when you say that you can sent them back, do you mean that you have identified all of them and you don't want to arrest them cause you couldn't sent them back?

"Albanians should accept reality that Serbs do not want to live with them, especially they do not want to be governed by the Albanians and therefore Albanian’s custom officers cannot come to the North" - bmrusila

I think this quote says it all. While for years the Serbs wanted to convince the world that the Albanians should have to live under the Serb occupation, they themselves can't fathom living under the control of any other people than the Serbs themselves. They couldn't live uner the Croatinas in Krajina, nor under the Bosnians in BiH.

After having come under Albanian control for barely a day the Serbs rise up in arms yet Albanians in Kosovo are supposed to put up with years of Serb oppression.

While I'd have liked to see a multi-ethnic Kosovo I think partition would be the better solution as it is almsot impossible to live side by side with the Serbs. It is perhaps time the two people go their separate ways much like the Turks and the Greeks did post-WWI.

“You see, this is what happens when you try and take away something precious and dear to the people. Looks like partition is closer than we think. Goodbye Kosovo, hello North Kosovo and South Kosovo. People, we have a new Veitnam on our hands.”

What a joke. Radical Serbs cannot do anymore what they have done in 90's creating mini-republics in Croatia and Bosnia because THERE IS NO SERB TROOPS IN WHOLE KOSOVO. Kosovo is fully controlled by NATO, UN and EU, and nothing will happen without the approval of these 3 entities, mainly NATO.

I came by a message wrote by "Brent" who says he is an American working in Kosovo.
By reading is message and his many mistakes in English I suspect that Brent is not American at all since he writes using the worst English I have ever read in B92's forum.

hopefully the state of serbia is standing by to help our people if they come under attack. or we might as well become a hopeless protectorate ourselves ;)

arrest hahaha good luck the goal is to close down the border

"We are inches from partition," a Western official was also quoted by the agency.

HAHAHA! Are you kidding? It has been partioned since day 1. Please, lets not kid ourselves. This is headed for a full partition and this is where the Russians will eventually get involved and dare the US to do something. You Albanians need to wake up and realize the US is not going to mobilize a division to force Northern Mitrovica. If you are still day-dreaming, look at the shortages they have with Iraq and Afghanistan. The Russians are on their way to call their bluff and the Serbs know it too. The problem is that you Albanians are the last ones to realize it. I can't wait for RS to join in on the fun and down goes Bosnia...

Olf, please, you have been stoking the hate all this time and now you have the gall to say "please stop?" And how do we know that you aren't sipping cappacino in Berlin? too funny..

Agim, oh please stop with the "get used to it" mantra. Face it, unless the Chinese and Russians say "Da" no UN. With Spain and Greece in the EU, say no to the EU. You guys are the ones who need to let it go and get real. But I guess you're getting slapped around with reality. How long before you guys turn on the international forces??

blero, 19 February 2008 14:39)

I think what Strav meant was that the EU is now stuck in Kosovo forever.
EU will ruin themselves with the impossible misssion to rule Kosovo. Just like Americas economy have taken a big hit after 2001 because of the meaningless wars in the middle east.

If you belive that you are any more independent today than two days ago you are naive, nothing have changed, you will be ruled from Brussels in the future, don't for a second think that EU will let the Albanians rule Kosovo without interfering. Why do you otherwise think they are sending more people there?

But go ahead, start a war against EU and NATO when you will finally wake up and se that you are being ruled by them.

And what are you going to do about Mitrovica and Trepca if I may ask? Demand that NATO etnicly cleans all serbs from there? Kosovo will partition, and you will lose the north.

Namely, local Serbs learned previously during the day that Albanian customs officers were coming to take over the boundary checkpoint, which caused their anger.

-Of course that after such provocation by Albanians, the riots were expected. Albanians should accept reality that Serbs do not want to live with them, especially they do not want to be governed by the Albanians and therefore Albanian’s custom officers cannot come to the North. Albanians should finally learn that they lost north and there is nothing in this Earth that will help them to establish control over the North. The partition seems to be the only sustainable solution so far and it looks like it is going to be. However, from the North there will be no borders with Serbia.

Now, the funniest of all is that police sheltered in tunnel and ordered the KFOR helicopter to evacuate them. So, I wonder who they are going to protect but themselves. They are totally incapable of keeping the order. I wonder when the KFOR is going to do exactly the same, to evacuate due to incapability to provide safety.

UN Resolution 1244 is still in effect and any attempts to send in albanian guards or police to this area in the north is highly illegal. Kosovo is legally Serbian, and nobody can change that. Serbs have every right to reject this fake state, especially if they dare try to impose it on them with force. For every action there is a reaction.

Isn't it kind of amusing in a sick kind of way to see all the K-Albanians getting so upset by the actions of the Serbs in Northern Kosovo. To my mind these people have every right to resist foreign domination by whatever means they care to use.

Let's just summarise what we have here:
- a country where a national minority in one province refuse to integrate.
- at the behest of powerful states, the country is partitioned and loses 15% of its territory.
- this new fake statelet contains a significant number of people cut off from their natural homeland.
- trouble ensues

Sounds awfully like Northern Ireland.

It has been widely reported in Western Medias that a new Kosovo passport will be more or less worthless, good only in those countries that recognize the illegal state of Kosovo, which in the end will probabley be less than 25 not including the Muslim countries, this is a far cry from more than 100, as Pristina was harping about just last week.

Another point Albanians should take note of is - You are stuck in Kosovo forever! Because now even those few countries that recognize your toy passport will not give you a "visa" or refugee status because now you have your own toy country that is Democratic and safe! That is the excuse most of the Former Yugoslav Republic citizens get when trying to immigrate to the west or even just visit. No more free rides for Albanians. You made your bed, better get use to sleeping in it.

Oh by the way there will be a great deal of deporting of Albanians from the west in the months to come, you see the west now has a safe place to return you to!

@LAMI you wrote:
"Kosovars will be happy to be in a union with the rest of the EU", "Kosovo is the most popular country on earth this week"

So-called "idependence of Kosovo" is not "popular" at all among the peoples of Europe. I suggest you to visit the forums of some biggest German, Polish, Czech or Belgian newspapers. There you will learn what the majority of the regular citizens think about illegal and immoral act of violence against Serbia. Besides, certainly nobody is amaized about the perspective of paying a millions of Euros from tax-payer money for the corroupted and mafia-backed "gouverment" of Kosovo.

I am pretty sure that the policy of violence will bring peace and prosperity to the Serbian nation. It has been so in the last 20 years, right?

If the Serbs in north Mitrovica attempt to separate, and are allowed to do so, THIS would create a precedent for many separatist movements around the world. They are given full rights for a minority which makes up only 5%.

'Police took shelter in a tunnel there as more than 1,000 protesters tried to tear it down, Kosovo police sources said.

"We asked NATO to send a helicopter to evacuate our officers," a police source told Reuters in Priština.'

:)
sorry guys but are you real cops or are you just playing with your uniforms? imagine serbian copdom taking shelter from the crowd :)
what am i to think now, kosovo has no police? :)
... and, it's, 'inches away'.

Someone gave that link, here is the text, just for our K-Albanians friends to really understand what 'K-independance' means.
As far as we are concern in Switzerland, quiet happy, we'll be finally able to send back all these gangs controlling 50% of the drug and prostitution market!

Here we go:

Despite the highly publicized flag-waving in the streets of Pristina and regardless of whatever one might hear or read in the media suggesting the contrary, Kosovo is no more independent today than it was the day before last.

In the first place, it is not enough for the political leadership of a territory to declare independence for it in fact to be independent.

If it were, Kosovo would be independent not since yesterday, but since 1990: the first time that a self-styled parliament of the Serbian province declared independence. It remains to be seen in the weeks and months ahead which countries will recognize Kosovo’s declaration of independence as legitimate. The EU “big four” of Germany, France, the United Kingdom and Italy are expected to recognize Kosovo’s independence in short order, and, despite the relatively tepid “taking note” of the declaration by the State Department yesterday, it is widely assumed that the US will follow suit. But other EU states have made known their opposition to Kosovo independence. Some of these — notably, Romania and Greece — are traditional allies of Serbia and several are confronted by their own home-grown ethnic separatist movements (or in the most glaring case, Cyprus, even with a full-fledged already proclaimed “Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus” on roughly half of its territory).

Among the other established world powers on the UN Security Council, Russia’s opposition has been well publicized. Though it has thus far shown greater discretion, China too can be assumed to be hostile. It too is confronted by multiple ethnic separatist movements — not to mention an already de facto independent Taiwan — and it opposed the 1999 NATO bombing campaign that “liberated” Kosovo from Serbian control in the first place. Emerging powers like India — embroiled for decades in a bloody conflict with Muslim separatist insurgents in Kashmir — will have similar reasons to want to withhold recognition. And so too will innumerable smaller countries that are wracked by violent separatist movements around the globe.

Even leaving aside the question of international legitimacy, however, there is another still more fundamental reason for insisting that Kosovo did not become independent yesterday and will not be independent for the foreseeable future — if indeed ever. In its resolution, the Kosovo parliament declared that Kosovo is an “independent and sovereign state.” But in the very next sentence it states that this declaration is occurring “in full accordance” with the famous “Ahtisaari Plan” for Kosovo’s final status: so-named for UN Special Envoy Martti Ahtisaari. Now, even a cursory glance at the Ahtisaari Plan — which can be consulted in full here — makes obvious that it does not in fact foresee independence for Kosovo, but rather what has been euphemistically described as “supervised independence.”

Kosovo is, needless to say, to be independent from Serbia — which de facto it has been, in any case, since the close of the NATO bombing campaign in June 1999 — and it is to have its “own” constitution and its “own” political institutions. But these political institutions as a whole are to be subjected to the higher authority of an “International Civilian Representative” invested with dictatorial powers. The International Civilian Representative or “ICR” is empowered, for instance, to annul any laws or decisions adopted by the local Kosovo authorities and to “sanction” or outright dismiss public officials. Lest there be any doubt about where the ultimate authority in Kosovo resides, the International Civilian Representative is to serve simultaneously as the “Special Representative” of the European Union. Whereas other countries or international institutions are supposed, in principle, to serve in the “Steering Group” to which the ICR reports — one of which, namely Russia, will undoubtedly decline the invitation — it is clear from the proposed composition of the “Steering Group” that the EU will in fact be able to appoint the ICR unilaterally. Indeed, it has already, in effect, done so by naming the Dutchman Pieter Feith as its “Special Representative.”

At the same time, the EU will dispatch a “Security and Defense Policy” mission — in the meanwhile re-baptized “EULEX” — which will be ultimately responsible for the maintenance of law and order (or in EU-speak, “the rule of law”) in Kosovo. The retired French General Yves de Kermabon has been named as “EULEX” head. Under the terms of the Ahtisaari Plan, the EU “mission” will have the authority, for example, “to reverse or annul operational decisions taken by the competent Kosovo authorities.”

Finally, it should be noted that the Ahtisaari Plan leaves in place the NATO-led military presence in Kosovo. The NATO-led force was recently reinforced by additional German troops and it presently amounts to some 16,000 troops in all: this for a population of some 2 million persons, making the foreign military presence in Kosovo comparable to the foreign military presence in Iraq, for example. Under the terms of the plan, moreover, the existing local Kosovo security force, the Kosovo Protection Corps (KPC), is in fact to be dissolved and replaced by a new force. The latter is to consist of not more than 2500 troops and is to be “lightly armed and possess no heavy weapons.”

The Kosovo “Declaration of Independence” meekly accepts — indeed “welcomes” — all these blatant encroachments upon Kosovo sovereignty. If words are to retain their sense, it would be more accurate to label it a “Declaration of Dependence.”

One detail of yesterday’s events makes the gap between popular national aspirations in Kosovo and the reality of Kosovo’s subjugation to European dictates especially clear. Think again of the images of the celebrations in the streets of Pristina and, more specifically, the flags being waved by the revelers: the dark red flags with the striking black two-headed eagle at their center. As so happens, the flag is in fact the flag of neighboring Albania. The choice is hardly surprising, since from the start the Albanian nationalist insurgency in Kosovo aimed not at independence for the province per se, but rather its separation from Serbia and incorporation into an enlarged Albanian “motherland.” When, however, the Kosovo parliament unveiled the “official” flag of the supposedly “new state,” it was not, of course, this Albanian flag. Indeed, it did not even in any way refer to or resemble the Albanian flag. Instead, reflecting the real dependence of this fictive state upon the European Union, the official flag is a pale blue imitation of the EU flag with a yellow map of Kosovo awkwardly stuck in the middle.

An article in today’s New York Times hopefully notes that yesterday’s declaration of independence may represent “the end of a long and bloody struggle for national self-determination.” As impressive as this might sound, it can well be doubted that the editors and authors of the New York Times know what the historically highly contentious principle of “national self-determination” in fact means. After all, even Woodrow Wilson himself — often, though mistakenly, thought to be the inventor of the expression — would admit after the First World War that when he first uttered “those words” he had been unsure of their meaning and that he had not realized that there were so many “nationalities.” Yesterday’s events in Kosovo, at any rate, were a parody of “national self-determination.” If the expression is to mean anything at all, then it must mean that the nations in question govern themselves. And this, the people of Kosovo most certainly do not.

Is it now clear enough... big powers as you always call them are full of surprises and nice lies, just look around a bit....

I guess you can't really blame albanians for these attacks can you?

Is it possible that even serbs can resort to violence? No need to answer - the answer is pretty clear to everyone apart from some serbs.

Lets hope that there is no violence from any side in the future.
(nikshala, 19 February 2008 12:39)

Seems to me that it was a pretty stupid & provocative act to send K-albanian customs officers into the north..

While its funny to you and some other serbs who are probably used to serbian police tactics of shooting and beating protesters and massacring innocents, i would say it was a smart move to evacuate.

Would you think it was funny, if KPS opened fire at these thugs, which would probably result at the death of these thugs and even police officers, which in turn would have lead to great deteoriation of the situation and the spread of violence in other parts of Kosovo? Would that be funny?

I applaud the professionalism of the police and their cool heads in that tense situation.

And I urge all albanians not to fall prey to these provocations coming from Belgrade. Let Kostunica have his fun and boost his nationalistic ego, until he gets overthrown for isolating Serbia and causing even more damage to K. Serbs.
(nikshala, 19 February 2008 16:24)

Also seems to me that the protesters were pretty well behaved - the fact that there were over a thousand of them & that no-one was hurt is a pretty good indicator of that..

From their point of view, there is no independent Kosovo, they are still part of Serbia, & so K-albanians have no right to either limit their access to serbia, or to prevent such access.

Once again - an irresponsible & provocative act - that was dealt with in no uncertain terms - with no unnecessary violence towards K-FOR who were merely carrying out their orders, or even towards said pseudo customs officials.

Well done Serbs :)

The western powers should think about what signals they send. Right now they have sent the signal "independence is less dangerous, lets grant independence".

Does this mean if the serbs are violent enough, they will achieve partition, because it is less dangerous?

The damage is already done. There will probably be more demonstrations and occational violence until the all-mighty ones allow a partition. I just hope not too many get hurt in the process.

to Laci, 19 February 2008 18:50)

Well unfortunately we have about 200thds of them...
Yes, I mentioned many times about the drug traffic, because that's what you can unfortunately read every day in the newspapers. Didn't want to mention about the thefts cause there also you have the top spot. Unfortunately until now, our coward politicians had now grounds to act, you were still The Persucated One, now you just gave us a ground :)) Am sorry for those that really were refugees, but have no tolerance and pitty for those who are scrupuless criminals, they will be able now to exercice in their court yard! Too many of them are in our prisons, but at the speed it was going, no space! Just read the comments on the swiss newspaper and you'll find out people's reaction.
There were 10 of thousands partying in Lausanne on the 17th, how many of them will freely return to your unlawfull state and invest their money....., why should they EU is so generous...

doni
Congrats on proving my point with your complete understanding of the issues and global affairs. Awesome job! I would hope you understand that the world is at a crucial point right now. Spheres of influence are changing new economic powers are emerging (China, India, Russia). Stability is of a major concern to people that are inteligent. What i am asking for is consistency and a universal approach to ethics. Now i believe i probably lost you at congrats, but to those of you still reading, i believe that ethics applied universally in the case of succession would mean independence for all or none. Anyone that makes an arguement for Kosovo and not Serbia, Kurdistan, maybe the native americans, aboriginal people, etc., is obviously biased. So now that the Albanians have annexed Kosovo (which was proven to be Serbian at one point) I ask Doni where do you stand on the balance of these issues. And please keep from your everyone hates Serbia, Serbia is bad, Serbia is the Devil, etc. I live in America and prior to Kosovo noone ever heard of Albania and those that did knew it for facism, communism, economic pyrimid schemes, drug dealers, etc. Also, let me know which neighboring nations are more concerned about Serbian expansion than Albanian.

To anybody who does not understand the Serb violence or does not want to try to understand it and just goes poking sarcastic fun at it, I say this to you.

Do you have a mother? Imagine that someone breaks in to your house, ties you up and rapes your mother in front of your eyes. After the fact, nobody is prepared to listen to you or help you in any way.

Please – put your hand on your heart and tell me that you would not become violent in your protest or wish for punishment.

Emotionally, this is exactly what Serbs like myself have to put up with at the moment with the latest farce from the Kosovo Albanian government. Violence is never right and I too deplore it but there are times when even the most devout peace loving Christian feels that it is the only way to express such outrage.

Perhaps if those who are always ready to criticise and punish us would spend more time getting to know who and what we are and – why we are- then we would not be put into situations where we explode emotionally.

Jovan, London

Peter wrote
“Seems to me that it was a pretty stupid & provocative act to send K-albanian customs officers into the north.”
.
Peter they were UNMIK customs officers not K-albanians!! The serbs thought that there were K-Albanian.

Jovan Maric Said,
“Do you have a mother? Imagine that someone breaks in to your house, ties you up and rapes your mother in front of your eyes. After the fact, nobody is prepared to listen to you or help you in any way.

Please – put your hand on your heart and tell me that you would not become violent in your protest or wish for punishment.”

Jovan
Isn’t this the very same think that the Serbs were doing in Bosnia and Kosovo (Raping and Killing)!!!

George
I love your reply to Jovan Maric and how quickly you discount Serbian pain by saying that innocent victims are deserving because of a past crime committed by other serbs. Yet if you were to add up all of the atrocities that the Muslims in Kosovo and Bosnia inflicted on the Serbs than by your logic Albanians and Bosnians are not victims since they killed and raped more innocent people over a longer time frame. From now on double standards should be known as Albanian standards. Does your world and history revolve around the last twenty years? Most Serbians can go back hundreds of years and in each generation name family that was abused or killed by Bosniak Turks, Albanians, and Nazis.

"Listening to the news it sounds as if Serbian authorities are adopting policies of Al Qaeda terrorists" - Olf

Just fell around the floor laughing at that. Olf have you realised what you have wriiten. I suggest to you sir that you expolit fully that untapped comedic genious inside of you.

Sweet Mother Divine of Jesus, what next, Serbs hijacking planes and slamming them into the Pentagon, Empire State building, Fort Knox, House of Commons, Serb suicide bombers et al.

Jovan was so right, some of the stuff we will have to read over the coming days and weeks....

Good Lord :)

hi,im greek!i definetely dont support kosovo independence.just from respect to the history of serbian nation,nobody should support kosovo independence!and actually it will never be independent!kosovo belongs to serbia!even albania is a created country by 1908!what history they have??its a creature of powerful countries as kosovo now!it started with kosovo and it will come to my country!on 19th february it was the meeting for the name of SKOPIA!its not macedonia!macedonia is geographical meaning!take a look on the map and u will see that the biggest part belongs to greece,then to skopia and bulgaria!u think that great alexander was slav?i dont think so!he was definetely greek!his teacher was aristotelis!in which language he wrote?how they can say that Great Alexander is their hero?did u know that they tried to beat greek reporters and they were telling them that they will come untill thessaloniki?so thats their plan!to take part in the future from north greece!why u think turkey was from the 1st countries that they supported kosovo independence?they already sent 750 soldiers there!becuase their future plan is to take thrace from greece!there is a turkish minority there!what will happen if they will have to vote about independence too?i really hope that greek goverment will not accept the independence of kosovo!wake up all and learn history and respect it!history that was writen with blood!

Dear "Swiss"

Maybe you should choose a different nickname in order not to give the impression to stand for a "Swiss" opinion. I am swiss too (since generations) and the comments you made in the last couple of days gave me the clear impression of you beeing a right wing nationalist swiss. I am glad that more liberal and human rights oriented swiss form still the majority in switzerland and that racist views like yours in every vote remain the minority. Otherwise, we would very soon end up with the same problems as other countries in the world have. I prefer to live in peace.

"Is no doubt that Kosovo was the cradle of Serbian culture & they were in overwhelming majority some 500-600 years ago. Plenty of Serbian cultural landmarks around from that period. Where are the Albanian ones?"
(peter, sydney, 20 February 2008 02:08)

I am not arguing with that peter. I can admit that it is true. Serbs were the majority 500-600 years ago. My source is Noel Malcolm's book on Kosovo, I believe him, he is not a Balkanian historian.

The Serb majority 600 years ago doesn't mean anything for today though. Do you want to return to 600 years ago? You are saying to the world: their great-great....grandfathers killed mine.
All I read these days in the western media is the "historical heartland".
First that's not a strong point, talking about 600 years ago. And it sounds so contradictory. If Kosovo was your historical heartland, why was it so neglected and poor during the last 90 years? It resembled a colony, not a historical heartland. Please, spare me racist answers.
Your "Cradle of Serbian Culture" should be respected by everybody, starting in the first place by you. This phrase has been used so much in an anti-albanian key in the last 100 years, that one starts thinking you don't really understand the meaning of it and you don't respect it. You are just interested in it as a tool in a war. You have downgraded it to a tool. This also shows that you don't really care deeply about the "Cradle of Serbian Culture", because if you use in this way you expose it to attacks.

zm,
Wikipedia is not the best source of information. The most stubborn wins there.

"KFOR then used bulldozers to push soil onto the roads to physically block them.

But the Serbs, who previously set Jarinja checkpoint on fire, also used bulldozers to clear the roadblock."

i realize this is a stressfull time but this is really funny. A great example of Serbian ingenuity.

@(Agim Gjilan, 19 February 2008 14:47)

What is youre independence worth if it's governt by the EU, the same EU you cannot join beacause 6 members off that same EU do not recognize you.

You cannot join the UN and the US is not going to stay forever, the day will com that you will border Serbia (with an grudge).

The Serbs have learned from their Islamo neighbors that civilian uprisings and violence can work. If the Albanians do not want a multi-ethnic society as proven in their cruel history, then the Serbs should not have to tolerate it. Let's hear from the Albanians how they are victims and their leaders are not mafia leaders and how they have rights to the land because they were goat herders in the balkans before the Slavs arrived. Read any history book not scribled in Albanian and you will see who settled the region. Not who was in the area but who settled it.

How could anyone compare this to "Al Qaeda style work". You have got to be joking. This is for defense of a nation. Invaders stealing land and the world being stupid enough to let it happen. Stand up tall and take back whats rightfully yours,or lose it forever.

"Listening to the news it sounds as if Serbian authorities are adopting policies of Al Qaeda terrorists"

Olf, don't you think that's a tad bit extreme? I mean if Al Qaida's terror was defined only in the burning of checkpoints, the so-called War on Terror would have been over a long time ago. This is a far cry from what the Albanian mobs would have done if independence was denied.

It ceases to amaze me at the quality of some of the posts here. Comparing Serbs to Al Qaeda or claming that Serbs should not protest or protect their position after an attempt to take 15% of their territory is simply ridiculous. You can get more violence after a football game here in the UK so what's your point? All English football hooligans are Al Qaeda operatives?

The Serbs stance is perfectly justifiable and understandable given the situation. Prolonged violence and tension works against the US/EU ( and their non-negotiate settlement ) so they will do all they can to keep the peace. The Serbs will keep themselves in the Serbian province of Kosovo under Serbian rule. UNMIK and NATO are there to protect them and if they fail, then I would expect the Serbian army to do that job (but I doubt it will get to that stage). I do expect offical Serbian parallel institutions to be set up immediately if the EU force enters.

Serbia will never accept an independent Kosovo and will constantly re-enforce that position when necessary. We have Russia and China on our side and will just need to be patient. China will become the world's dominant economic and military force soon enough!

Now, when can we expect round two of recognition? It has been a bit slow. Do you have 10 countries yet?

“Kosovo has its own government. EU- LEX in Kosovo has only an advisory mission”

Incorrect.

You need to learn the name of Peter Feith, the dutchman who is now the EU boss in southern Kosovo.

In a recent interview your new boss, Mr. Feith said, “I have executive powers. I can annul legislation, fire corrupt officials, cancel government decisions.”

Peter Feith is the final word so you better listen.

@(Agim Gjilan, 19 February 2008 16:57)

You said, that and i quote "they will be catagorized als terrorists, and whe all know what happens to them."

First off, if the albanians have the right to declare independance, so then the Serbs is north-kosovo have the right to secceed from Kosovo, there's nothing you can do about that.

Second
The EU mission has far more power than you realize, it even has the power to dispose off youre government if it pleases, so don't celebrate to hard.

Third if you (the albanians) take any action against the Serbs, KFOR and the EU mission is forced to action against you.

Neither KFOR nor the EU mission has to have to listen to youre 'government' actually it's the other way around, youre government has to comply with the EU and KFOR or else it will be disbanded, and you guys thought you had gained independence.

No Olf. Al Qaida uses suicide bombers, flies planes into buildings, decapitates hostages, and uses IRDs against American tanks. Take a look at Iraq or Afghanistan for a better reference for what Al Qaida is doing. As of now, no one, thankfully, is getting hurt in Kosovo Province.

If a few crazy Serbs comandeer a JAT jet and fly it into the parliarment building in Pristina, then we'll talk about Al Qaida parallels. Until then, let's call it what it is - a localized riot that has the potential to spill into an uprising, but a far cry from the 2004 riots instigated by hearsay and rumors and which took three days to pacify.

Until lives are intentionally threatened or, God forbid, lost, I have little to condemn.

Thanks Flamur, I was looking for a list. So there are only 9 countries who recognise Kosovo so far and another 21 expected. 30 in total!

Then you have the undecided list, with countries like New Zealand saying:

"It's never been the New Zealand Government's position to recognise in such circumstances. We will neither recognise nor not recognise." according to PM Helen Clark.

Anyone who doesn't recognise is essentially not recognising. There is no middle ground I'm afraid. There are many countries in this position who would prefer to express neutrality so as not to upset the almighty US (sorry Mike), however, they are effectively in the non-recognition group.

B92 recently stated that only about 40 countries will provide recognition and that is a dismal amount. Serbia just needs to hold firm and Kosovo will come back in a re-negotiated settlement. Albanians will soon realise autonomy will provide more than their quasi-supervised-isolated entity.

On polish TV I haven't seen any kosovian flag only albanian & usa. Kosovian they don't have own flag, language, culture so this not separated nation , they are Albanians. So I don't understand this independent declaration.
because Albania is independent.
In Chicago is 2 million polish people so we have to make secession. I don't even talk about Mexicans speciality in Texas or California.
THIS IS GREAT SCANDAL.
New Munich 1938

These incidents should not be made bigger than they in fact were. A few crappy buildings were burned. There were no casualties. Nobody even got hurt. Very Al Qaeda indeed (NOT).

The international community have done their bit and have gone further than was their right. They have overstepped the mark established in 1244 and have given up the right to resist Serbia.

They are now going to be challenged continually and eternally while Serbis now reestablishes and maintains its rights in Kosovo. They will never find it easy - it will never stop!

Kosovo is still a province of Serbia unless Serbia says otherwise!

Oh no the poor KPS had to ask NATO for help again.The big bad Serbs are taking a stand.Thaci is gonna have to change the flag and cut the north because it seems like a no go.If the Albanians and KFOR use force than the army might have to act.We cannot go on like this with no Serbian security forces in the north.

B92 recently stated that only about 40 countries will provide recognition and that is a dismal amount. Serbia just needs to hold firm and Kosovo will come back in a re-negotiated settlement. Albanians will soon realise autonomy will provide more than their quasi-supervised-isolated entity.
(ZK UK, 19 February 2008, 18:39)

It will be the same amount of countries who illegally invaded Iraq when George Bush Jr. set up the so called coalition.

The so called illegal state of Kosovo will be rejected by most of the world as was the invasion of Iraq.

Further, Canada is one those countries which will not make any comment on independance for fear of igniting the French Quebec Province joinin g commonwealth nation New Zealand.

Today an old Serbian woman of 80 years was beaten by Albanians in the town of Gnjilane.
This speaks volumes.

In my opinion,the only realistic way for the future of the Serbs living in Kosovo is to ask the annexion of their territory (West and North)to motherland Serbia. Of course by peaceful means.No more people need to die in the Balkans.By using peaceful means Serbs will have the support most of the international public opinion.

Liam wrote:

Those who call for partition of Kosovo are really alknowledging Kosovo's right to independence.

--

No one is calling for partition here as it already exists (defacto). You have part of the province that is loyal to Serbia and part that is not. This has been the case for quite some time!

Elton NYC wrote:

I think this quote says it all. While for years the Serbs wanted to convince the world that the Albanians should have to live under the Serb occupation, they themselves can't fathom living under the control of any other people than the Serbs themselves. They couldn't live uner the Croatinas in Krajina, nor under the Bosnians in BiH.

--

Interesting how you say that when Serbia wanted to preserve Yugoslavia where everyone lived peacefully together for 50 years.

It was the Albanians who chased out all the non-Albanians out of Kosovo - Serbs, Turks, Gorani and the rest! Also, it's the Albanians who want to carve out another country in Macedonia, Greece and Montenegro. Now who did you say can't live with their neighbours?

Please keep protesting. This border is illegal. Kosovo is just a Serbian province.

No violence of course but never let this issue settle down!

Lots of success from Holland. The free world is supporting you!

Get down this border!

BUT NO VIOLENCE!!!!

The following was taken from Wikipedia. It is about the demographic history of KosovO! "Medieval Serbia" 14th century. The Decani Charter from 1330 contained a detailed list of households and chartered villages in Metohija and northwestern Albania: 3 of 89 settlements were Albanian, the others being non-Albanian. Out of the 2,166 farming homestaeds and 2,666 houses in cattle grazing land, 44 were registered as Albanian (1.8%). Others were registered as Slavic, mostly Serbian. The non-Serbian population of Kosovo didn't exceed 2% by the end of the 14th Century.

To all my Serbian brothers. Do not allow yourself to be baited into irrational arguements with people that don't know their own history. Knowledge is power. Use your voices to tell the truth. In the case of Kosovo, most of the ancient sites are Serbian. Many of the towns have slavic names. This just helps confirm that illegal immigration, high birth rates, and violence lead to succession. We must make sure it never happens again. Protect your borders!

As an act of public service let me bring you the following link:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8126

2 permanent UNSC countrys reject kosovo independence, so it will never be a part of the UN. How can a country truly be independent and recognised if they are not in the UN? Albanians you can swear, make fun, insult, mock Serbs all you want but you all know deep down Kosovo will never be truly independent, and will NEVER be a part of ALbania. always.

The following was taken from Wikipedia. It is about the demographic history of KosovO! "Medieval Serbia" 14th century. The Decani Charter from 1330 contained a detailed list of households and chartered villages in Metohija and northwestern Albania: 3 of 89 settlements were Albanian, the others being non-Albanian. Out of the 2,166 farming homestaeds and 2,666 houses in cattle grazing land, 44 were registered as Albanian (1.8%). Others were registered as Slavic, mostly Serbian. The non-Serbian population of Kosovo didn't exceed 2% by the end of the 14th Century.

To all my Serbian brothers. Do not allow yourself to be baited into irrational arguements with people that don't know their own history. Knowledge is power. Use your voices to tell the truth. In the case of Kosovo, most of the ancient sites are Serbian. Many of the towns have slavic names. This just helps confirm that illegal immigration, high birth rates, and violence lead to succession. We must make sure it never happens again. Protect your borders!
(zm, 19 February 2008 22:54)

zm,
thanks for your comment, I recommended it. Please post a lot more of these historical facts, not only here but everywhere, so the whole world sees how you think. And please tell them the facts of how Albanians occupied your land hundreds of years ago and why they are seen as invaders of Kosovo for that. Please tell that them that the goal of what happened in 1998-99 was to free Kosovo. That should help Serbs a lot in their struggle. It has already helped you a lot. That's why we are here at this point today, the point being that Albanians rejoice and Serbs protest. But I have only one advice, don't use wikipedia as a source, because it is not truthful enough, you know, anybody can write there. Use serbianna.com, it is much more serious and factual.
Keep the work going...
Peace
(shqarthi, 20 February 2008 00:39)


True enough, anyone can edit the articles.. but rubbish is usually removed pretty quickly.

This wikipedia article has been around for quite a while & is well sourced with plenty of credible references.

Is no doubt that Kosovo was the cradle of Serbian culture & they were in overwhelming majority some 500-600 years ago. Plenty of Serbian cultural landmarks around from that period. Where are the Albanian ones?

Thank you to all the brave and great citizens of Serbia who are upholding peace, protesting, and making a stand for true democracy and Republic of Serbia's rights.

God bless them, and I hope for peace for all people who respect Kosovo in Serbia because Kosovo is Serbia.

Keep protesting, righteousness will prevail and we must be heard!

Not much of a country, when after two days, the north is partitioning itself back to mother Serbia. Congratulations EU, you've created another mess. As for the UK, when Scotland and Wales declare independence, Serbia will be the first to show them recognition. As for the USA, get out of Europe you are nothing but trouble. Bush, you should intervene in the genocide in Darfur, what, the Africans don't matter when it comes to genocide?

I've been observing the situation from a distance in Australia. The Serbs are upset at the situation and appear to be hopeful of support from Russia, Greece, Spain and others. What they can actually do to change the situation in a meaningful way to Serbs I am not sure.
The Albanians are exuberant in their display of joy here. We have seen much of their partying on the TV news. This is compared with the odd handful of protests by Serbs where they go off and do something stupid like throw bottles at police cars. What does this do? The general public then thinks why do 'you people' bring your old conflicts to this country - then go off and support the peaceful Albanians.
It would be great for Serbs to unite and protest together globally - do so peacefully but loudly. Don't go off and act like violent thugs throwing bottles, burning down property or whatever to prove a point. That is not the way to get support on your side.
The Albanian PR machine has obviously done an excellent job and much of the Western and Islamic communities are on the side of an Independent Kosovo. In fact, Australian media report that the Kosovo Albanians are finally free after a 100-year struggle. Honestly what can I as a Serb say to this. Most do not understand what the struggle is or why the Serbs are so attached to Kosovo. To be honest, I do not think they really care. I think that the international community just wants this 'problem' solved - and they think this is the solution.
Unfortunately Serbia is not in a great position - economically, politically or socially - for the international community to really care about our opinion.

Most historians can quote hundreds of history books that are writen in various languages throughout the centuries that will testify as to the time frame of various ethnic migrations. It is common knowledge among literate people that the goths drove out the inhabitants of the Balkan peninsula and as they left the Avars and Slavic tribes moved in. It is very well documented that the Albanian population in the Kosovo region was minimal. I bring up this arguement as a rebutal to the Albanians who claim they were in Kosovo first. From a linguistic stand point it is also very easy to determine the origins of town names as well, and hard for Albanians to discount all of this evidence. The Albanian population grew and settled larger areas because of the Slavic tolerance.

Now speaking ethically, if the Albanians have the right to succeed based on a hundred years of struggles, should then the Serbians be afforded the same right to break free from the Turkish yoke in Bosnia, afterall they had over 500 years of suffering at the hands of the Turks. Should the long suffering Kurds be given the same rights? Should we bomb the Muslims of Northern Sudan for the genocide being committed against the chriatian south? The list goes on and on. Most of you miss the point. When does it stop? Why put up more borders if the goal is the European Union? If you claim that the Albanians have more of a case you are biased and prejudice and know nothing of history. And besides we are here at this point , Albanians rejoicing and Serbians protesting due to big business, natural resources, and Western Europes goal of creating small managable nations in Eastern Europe to keep Russia isolated and weak.
PEACE!

shqarthi needs to spend less time at Serbian forums and more time helping his country root out the mob. Typical Albanian response to a fact that doesn't support his views. Show me proof or point me to a website that isn't Muslim or Albanian that proves that the Albanians have an ancieant claim to the land. Give me some data that shows a gradual Albanian population increase in the area, instead of large spikes. Please also tell me that the serbian churches being destroyed are also Serbian propaganda. Tell me that Albanians wearing Nazi uniforms did not take a part in the ethnic cleansing of Serbians. Tell us how you will welcome Serbians with open arms back to their homes. Tell us how by default you now support the Serbians in Bosnia, the Kurds in Turkey, and the existance of the state of Isreal. My views are not tainted by the 90's. I have never read a Serbian book in my life and know nothing of the Cyrilic alphabet. My knowledge will always come from neutral sources and I will always view history as a whole instead of a small part.

Olf says: "Listening to the news it sounds as if Serbian authorities are adopting policies of Al Qaeda terrorists."

He may have a point. If anyone on this site knows Al Qaeda tactics, it is the Kosovo Albanians. They were trained by Al Qaeda.

It is obvious that the border guards were Albanians, since they ran into a tunnel and cried for NATO. This riot group was obviously not little old ladies and children, people the Albanaians are used to abusing.

Keep fighting for Serbia! Washington said there would be no big noise. MAKE BIG NOISE!

"Kosovo" couldn't last for even a week, what a farse. Now watch it return to mother Serbia. What did the US and their puppet allies in the EU think, the Serbs of KOSMET would sit back and watch. Come on Pristina, ask Bush what to say and do.

To D.Laci

Didn't mention 200 but 200 thousands that are currently in switzrerland, basically the largest foreign community (maybe you could ask one of our canton :)
Am also not talking about a few 1000 that are criminals. According to the official statistics more than 50 pct of the drug and prostitution crimes in switzerland are in the hands of K-Albanians, as for thefts that percentage is higher. Am not condemning a nation but sorry there are limits to everything. We have refugees from all around the world and most of them were fully integrated apart from the large majority of K-Albanians and some African countries citizens. We are a very tolerent country but believe me the level of tolerance has long gone. Explain to me why all your "eldorado" citizens (maybe you are one of them) did not return during the last 10 years, K was and still is under the orders and protection of EU! Do you think that the 'forced independance happening' will change the mind of all these expatriates, wishfull thinking. Patriots, no doubts, crazy not!!
As for 99, I certainly do not accept it either, but every war has two faces and two sides, and sorry to say, to understand 99 you should go back a bit and analyze what happend during the YU break-up! Can you then say who really started? The Serbs, the Croats, the Bosnians, the Albanians? All of them have their own responsibilities, all of them had their citizens deported by hundred of thousands, all of them lost a lot of lifes, but there is one common point...the US involvment at the very start of the break-up war..for some reason they again had to put their nose and create mess and finally find a guilty one to cover-up their mess and prove to the world how big and strong they are!
So, nothing is as simple as it seems. If you have the chance, try to find a report that was published on BN (Bosnian TV) 2 nights ago, very interesting and so clearly describing the dirty involment of US during that war. Most of the facts were confirmed by ex politicians, and ex military commanders active during that war!
Kosovo was the last act of the mess started by the US and EU was forced to clean it by trying to impose 'a solution'. If I would be in the K-Albanians shoes I would certainly refuse to accept an imposed unlawfull solution, breaking the basics of UN charter and many more acts, and for what, to cover the dirty job of some 'great powers'!!
The American dream that we all had is long gone...

Albion, Massimo

Why getting so aggresiv on someone that do not share your view, Brent might be american or not, he simply does not accept this unlawfull decision, like I don't either, like millions in this world do not.
So many people feel today ashame of their own citizenship because of their politicians, am one of them! I believe this is our legitimate right not to accept a clear unlawfull act like most of us didn't accept the lies told to justify the war in Iraq. Am glad that am part of these people for whom the respect of others integrity and the respect of laws is important. The history is like a boomerang and sooner or later it will hit those dirty tricks players.

@ Illyrian
"If the Serbs in north Mitrovica attempt to separate, and are allowed to do so, THIS would create a precedent for many separatist movements around the world. They are given full rights for a minority which makes up only 5%".

Wouldn't this be a special case?? LOL

to the Swiss 2

Swiss since generations, welcome, am happy for you... as far as I could track it down my family has been in switzerland since the 14th century...
Am not part of any political party, and certainly not a right wing, just have a different opinion and do not accept these kind of unlawfull imposed forced acts!
Just read the today's 'le Matin' newspaper and the comments related to an article "the Kosovars in Switzerland want to stay"

According to the Federal Migration Office only 2% are expected to return, main reasons given, no future, hight unemployment, destroyed coutry etc... being patriot doesn't mean to be stupid!!

Am also not trying to represent what you call "the Swiss opinion" and if you want to call me a racist just because I have a different opinion than yours, it's your problem!

As a matter of fact I have been working and creating companies in Switzerland Russia, Turkey and Serbia where the majority of my employees, not to say all, were locals and I always had a gread and rich experience and learn a lot about different mentalities, so before calling someone racist you should know whom you are addressing.

I have nothing against the people of Kosovo, but I have certainly something against unlawfull acts, and non respect of integrity, which they are now part of, and if I should be called a racist for this, let it be, I do not care!

I have not created the statistics about the K-albanians in Switzerland in relation to their integration, drug and prostition traffics, thefts, etc! You would certainly argue that not everybody can be put in the same pot, I agree, then they should make sure that these statistics only represents a minority! Why are these same statistics not mentioning people that came as refugees or immigrants from so many other region of the world? So maybe you should equally call our federal statistics institutions racists!
These numbers are alarming and everyone has the right to be concerned or not about it. At the end it's upto the K-albanians to prove to the world that they are not what a lot of people are thinking of, and the best prove would be in participating in the reconstruction of their region, but again the famous statistics tend to prove the contrary!!

To all pro and contra

Any comments on this, or they are and will remain the long lost not interesting far away cases....


Other Separatists Ask 'Why Not Us?'
By Kazbek Basayev
Reuters

AP
Sergei Bagapsh

SUKHUMI, Georgia -- Residents of one disputed sliver of land in the former Soviet Union are asking: If Kosovo can be recognized as an independent state, why can't we?

Georgia's rebel region of Abkhazia on the Black Sea coast is one of four former Soviet regions that declared their independence in the 1990s and fought separatist wars but that have not been recognized as states.

In Sukhumi, the Abkhaz capital that in places still bears scars of the fighting against Georgian troops, officials and citizens said they hoped that Kosovo would create a legal precedent that they too could follow.

"If they recognized Kosovo, how are we any worse?" said Nodar Sheoua, a student standing in a slushy Sukhumi street.

Kosovo declared its independence from Serbia on Sunday. A number of countries have given formal recognition to Kosovo.

Western backers of Kosovo's independence say it does not set a precedent, but the former Soviet regions call this a double standard that will now be harder to defend.

Home to 200,000 people, Abkhazia has run its own affairs since driving out Georgian forces. The mountainous region, which borders Russia, has its own flag, elected government and armed forces.

Georgia refuses to relinquish its claim over either Abkhazia or South Ossetia -- a stance backed by Tbilisi's Western allies.


Tuta Akhuba, a teacher, said the next step had to come from Russia. Moscow is Abkhazia's biggest backer but has not recognized it as a state.

"All this depends on our President [Vladimir] Putin," Akhuba said. "We ourselves depend on him. ... Our hopes rest on Putin, and Russia should be the first to recognize us."

Abkhazia's separatist president, Sergei Bagapsh, said at a news conference in Moscow on Monday that his region was just as entitled to recognition as Kosovo.

"We will shortly apply to the leadership of Russia, the CIS countries, the UN and other international organizations to recognize our independence," Bagapsh said.

In Tbilisi, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili rejected the idea of Kosovo as a precedent.

Asked if Georgia would recognize Kosovo, Saakashvili said, "Right now we are all preoccupied with other things -- whether this will have consequences in terms of provocations, stirring up trouble locally, and we are hoping to avoid wars here."

Transdnestr, which seceded from Moldova, said Kosovo proved that international rules on the inviolability of borders "were receding into history."

"Kosovo's recognition produces a new system of measures that we believe should be applied to all countries," said Yevgeny Shevchuk, speaker of the separatist parliament, the Novy Region web site reported

BAKU WARN YEREVAN NOT TO RECOGNISE INDEPENDENT KOSOVO
20.2.2008 13:23 BAKU, (Tanjug) - A unilateral recognition of Kosovo independence is contrary to international regulations and it does not represent a precedent for the dispute over Nagorno Karabakh, Azerbaijani Deputy Foreign Minister Araz Azimov said on Wednesday.
.
DEP:CROATIA-SERBIA-SANADER
NOT UP TO CROATIA TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE FOR SERBIA, SANADER
20.2.2008 13:08 ZAGREB, (Tanjug) - Croatian Prime Minister Ivo Sanader said on Wednesday that Serbia was in a difficult spot and that Croatia was not about to make matters worse for it, and reiterated that his country would recognise Kosovo when the time came for that and when the majority of EU countries do so.

DEP:SLOVAKIA-KOSOVO-CAPLOVIC
CAPLOVIC CALLS KOSOVO DROGO'S LAND OF DRUGS
20.2.2008 12:58 BRATISLAVA, (Tanjug) - Slovakia's Deputy Prime Minister and and Minister for Knowledge-Based Society, European Affairs, Human Rights and Minorities, Dusan Caplovic, has called Kosovo Drogo's land of drugs, and said that he will never vote for the province's independence.

DEP:BULGARIA-STANISHEV-KOSOVO
NOT POSSIBLE FOR KOSOVO TO BECOME UN MEMBER, STANISEV
20.2.2008 12:40 SOFIA, (Tanjug) - Bulgarian Prime Minister Sergei Stanishev has assessed it was not possible for Kosovo to become a UN member, given the position of Serbia and other countries.


DEP:GREECE-KOSOVO-PASOK
PASOK URGES GREEK GOVERNMENT NOT TO RECOGNISE KOSOVO
20.2.2008 11:05 ATHENS, (Tanjug) - PASOK (Panhellenic Socialist Movement), the biggest party of the Greek opposition, called on the Greek government on Tuesday not to recognise the unilaterally proclaimed independence of Kosovo.


DEP:BOSNIA-SRPSKA-MONTENEGRO-KOSOVO
RADOJICIC - KOSOVO'S SECESSION VIOLATES INTERNATIONAL ORDER
19.2.2008 19:22 BANJA LUKA, (Tanjug) - Kosovo's secession violates the international legal order established in post-WWII Europe in which the principle of territorial integrity and sovereignty of internationally recognised states has prevailed, Republika Srpska parliament speaker Igor Radojicic said in Banja Luka on Tuesday, during a meeting with Montenegrin parliament speaker Ranko Krivokapic.

DEP:KOSOVO-INDEPENDENCE-ROMA
ROMA COMMUNITY WILL NOT RECOGNIZE KOSOVO INDEPENDENCE
19.2.2008 19:13 BELGRADE, (Tanjug) - The Roma National Council denied Tuesday allegations that this community has accepted the decision of the interim Kosovo parliament to unilaterally declare independence of the province.

DEP:UNMIK-POLICE
DEP:US-KOSOVO-PRESS
WASHINGTON TIMES: NEW JIHADI STATE IN EUROPE
19.2.2008 17:06 WASHINGTON, (Tanjug) - It seems that Kosovo will be a new sovereign state, but this weak, perpetually inefficient and poor statelet will not be in the interest of the United States, the conservative paper The Washigton Times said on Tuesday.

DEP:GERMANY-KOSOVO-LEFT
DISMEMBERMENT OF BALKANS DUE TO KOSOVO INDEPENDENCE, LEFT
19.2.2008 16:24 BERLIN, (Tanjug) - The Left Party of Germany, which succeeded the former East German communists, warned Tuesday that, following the unilateral declaration of the independence of Kosovo, the Balkans are threatened by dismemberment.

DEP:FRANCE-CORSICA-KOSOVO
CORSICAN SEPARATISTS WELCOME KOSOVO INDEPENDENCE
19.2.2008 16:12 PARIS, (Tanjug) - :FRANCE-CORSICA-KOSOVO Corsican separatists welcome Kosovo independence PARIS, Feb 19 (Tanjug) - The Independent Corsican Nation (CNI) on Tuesday welcomed with ''delight'' the unilateral declaration of the independence of Kosovo and the ''brotherly Kosovo people'', the French media have reported.

DEP:AUSTRIA-KOSOVO-FPO
STRACHE: KOSOVO INDEPENDENCE VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW
19.2.2008 16:04 VIENNA, (Tanjug) - The unilateral proclamation of the independence of Kosovo is contrary to international law and presents a violation of United Nations (UN) Security Council Resolution

Massimo (posting # 92),

Apparently you are not fluent in English either. "I came by a message wrote by Brent" should be "I came by a message WRITTEN by Brent", and "by reading is message" should be "by reading HIS message".

gregovic, it's still early, would you be willing to say that Serbia should recognize the Republic of Kosova if more than half the countries in the World recognize it? If not, then please be quiet about the number and just wait.
(AC, 19 February 2008 22:01)

Doesnt' matter how many countries recognize the illegal state of Kosovo, it contradicts the international order of the world, the UN and the Helsinki Accords.

As for as this comment"

"If not, then please be quiet about the number and just wait."

This is a democratic forum where all opinions are allowed unlike the state of Kosovo.

So dont' tell me, Serbians, Albanians , Roma's, Romanians, Poles or any other person to "Be quiet"