Romania's Hungarians want Kosovo recognition

Thank you Hungary. We support you too.

I think the Balkan will be more stable with the independence of Kosovo.Everyone need to understand,the Kosovo was lost in 1999. Serbia at the moment has a group of bad politician,not so far to the Milosevic era.They never are going to understand the fact of staying with Russia will be in their disfavor .UK was a empire, before romans and so ,but a day everything changed and they are what they are now.So good luck to new Serbia and of course good luck to a new country,KOSOVO!

Vojvodina independance and regional family unification will eventually realized.God bless Tom Lantos soul.Unfortunatly he did not live to see the fruits of his labor passing away one week before independance.He will never be forgotten.

There is a huge difference between Kosovo and Transsylvania. Kosovo was an autonom province, while the Romanian government never allowed Hungarians (approx 2millions) to form an autonomous territory. What else could be their first reaction?

Guys, get real... Do not become blinded by your happiness...

And because Geri mentioned this, there are more differences between Kosovo case and Transilvania than he identified.
First, in Transilvania are living currently a little more than 7.700.000 persons, out of which Romanians are 73,6%, Hungarians 20,8%, Roma/Gypsies 2,6%, Germans 1,4%, others 1,6%. Data are from the internet, based on the last census from 2002. So, given the absolute majority of Romanians in the area, any comparison between the demographic situation of Hungarians in Romania and the one of Albanians in Serbia/Kosovo is simply groundless.

Second, Hungarians in Transilvania are located in two counties in the center of the region, without direct contact with Hungary (not like Kosovo, sharing a common border with Albania). This is because when they arrived in Transilvania, Hungarians settled in the arch of the Carpat Mountains, creating strong feudal communities in towns from which the indigenous population, Romanians (mostly peasants) where forbidden to settle, being considered for centuries ‘second grade persons’ and barely tolerated, they and their religion (Orthodoxy) and their Latin-origin language. Therefore, today, most of the Hungarian areas are surrounded by Romanian inhabited villages.

Third, the recent past of Romanian-Hungarian relations is radically different from the one between the Serbs and Albanians in Kosovo (right now I am watching on Romanian public TV the leaders of Hungarian minority party in Romania, in a talk-show, expressing exactly this reality, and also insisting that Kosovo is a “sui-generis” case, without power of precedent for any other future similar situation). We may have been fighting for centuries, but now our countries are allies and partners in EU, NATO, and our governments have yearly joint sessions in both Budapest and Bucharest, not to mention that the Hungarian minority political party is member of the Romanian current government already for 12 continuous years!

Last but not least, a very fresh news item:
Romanian parliament just voted against recognizing Kosovo independence. The resolution proposed with this purpose by the Prime Minister was approved with 357 “yes” and “27” against, the 27 being the deputies of the Hungarian minority party (as I said before, members of the governing coalition). This is democracy in action, is their right, no problem. But Hungarians in Romania want only ‘cultural autonomy’ as it exists in other countries in EU, permitted by the Constitutions of these states, not separation on ethnic criteria. Right now, this is not the case in Romania, and it may never be. But since we are all EU citizens, it may be never the case for something like this, also because they enjoy full rights in nowadays Romania, starting with schools and University in Hungarian and ending with political parties fully involved in Romanian political life! So guys, don’t tell me that those are conditions for a ‘Kosovo case’ :)

Best from Bucharest,

George, the Romanian

- I am an Austrian.
- Bucharest is the 2nd biggest Hungarian city because more Hungarians live there then in any other town after Budapest.
- Hungarians emigrated to Hungary due to ethnic problems (before and after the Ceausescu regime, pls remember the mayor of Cluj)
(I am on purpose not talking about those Germans - Saxons - who were practically forced to leave the country.
- Sorry to say, but your country does not have a damn positive image here (and this is not because of those fellow citizens of yours who ate the flamingos at Vienna Zoo a couple of years ago :)
- I totally understand why Romania is not that happy about Kosovo. (What is the situation about autonomy in your "European" country?)
Peace

good luck Serbia,

You must be a member of the Greater-Romania party to write such a post. It has nothing to do with reality. It is pure fabrication about the Szeklers or Szekely. It is not worthy of further comment.

George, the Romanian.
Well, as a proud Romanian, dont quote the ethnical proportion of Transylvania. All the Germans left Trasnylvania, and quite a lot of Hungarians did the same, too. The reason is the same, as that of the fact that today the 2nd biggest Hungarian city is Bucharest (Hungarians were forced to leave there homes).

Culturally and Historically Transylvania is more Hungarian (i.e. European) thn other parts of Romania, so many Historians outside Romania STILL believe that this territory could be like Switzerland in the East.

Thnx to the recent democratic changes in your country (plus EU membership -many ppl do not understand here in the West how Romania could get that, anyaway- the situation with ethnic minorities are not that terrible.

We know all the problem in Kosovo, and now we all see the result.

I'm amazed by the reaction of some in the Albanian camp here.

I thought insisted that Kosovo is a unique case. Now all of a sudden what the Serbs have been saying about the danger from other seperatist movements and you are even supporting it!

Lets have some consistency please, or a little more honesty.

Let me help, Kosovo is not a unique case as we all know and other movements will point to Kosovo as a model. Still as the world sows so shall it reap...

The kosovars will get sick of their own country in 2-3 years with this level of coruption ,criminality and unemployment.Now in their minds they have an enemy - Serbia - but their real enemy is the kosovian political class.They will realize this soon.

Regarding the Szeklers region in Eastern Transilvania( Harghita and Kovasna counties) they are totally free there to do whatever they want.
The problem there is the hungarian speaking population who is oppressing the rumanian population which is in minority in this two counties.The rumanian population has suffered have losses in the 1941-1944 and 1952-1968(during the autonomous Hungarian Mures region existance).I can gave you and example in 1944 in 3 september in the center of the town Gheorgheni(i don't know the hungarian name) - 138 families of rumanians have been decapitated . It is a shame for rumanian government that rumanians are mistreated in their own country and even now- schools in rumanian languange are distroyed in the Eastern Transilvania and orthodox and greco catholic churches are closed only to satisfy the hungarian szeklers demands from that region.Every day bands of hungarians in the hargita and covasna counties are therorizing rumanian population and by using force they are threathening them to leave the harghita and covasna counties.

Anywhere else in the romanian Transilvania this is not happening because the hungarians represents less than 15% of the all transilvania region population and they don't behave like in the Szeklers Region( but even if they represent at least 20% from the villages or towns population they have schools in their own languages and the right to use the own language in offical documents).In the Szeklers region they don't even speak romanian language.I cannot explain this behavior of hungarian population there since there was not recorded any aggression against them.(even during the Ceasuescu regime they have schools and high scholls and amaizing they even have a university in hungarian language - the Babes Bolyai University in Targu Mures - Marosvasarhely).

The rumanian corupt government has steped back and lost control in the Szeklers region for years ago so i could say the Szeklers autonomous country exist in Romania for at least 15 years even is not mentioned on official documents.

The Hungarians from Szeklers region are always complaining in the international press that they are oppreesed there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!which is not true...the hungarians are the oppressors...Their representetives in the romanian government which are members of the hungarian party from Romania(which always get arround 6% of the votes at the national level from the 1,5 mil of hungarians ) are always complaining in the EU Parliamnet that the hungarian population is opressed and mistreated!!!!!!!!!!.. which is a untrue.

Dear Geri, the Albanian who lives in West (of Europe).

I detect some grudge in you reply, probably because Romania’s position regarding Kosovo… Nothing I can do about it.

But thanks for pointing out that Bucharest has so many Hungarians! Maybe because it’s bigger than Budapest, and Hungarians are welcome here, even in the government? Yes, many Hungarians left, also Germans, but also Romanians left from Transilvania, emigrating in Western Europe or moving in other parts of our country (you know, Romania is quite big, approx. 20 times bigger than Kosovo). Almost all this departures occurred during the Communist regime (although many Germans left after the re-unification of Germany, tempted by this).
Back then, it was a big chance and opportunity for all those who decided to leave and were permitted by the Communists to do so. If I remember correctly what many historians are saying about the history of Kosovo, something similar happened with many Serbs from down there – they left for Serbia proper, Slovenia, Croatia, other parts of Yugoslavia, even abroad. Are you Albanians accepting any quilt for these departures? Not so much, based on my talks with hundreds of Kosovo Albanians, while spending 3 years in Kosovo. If you suggest that the Hungarians who left from Transilvania did this because ethnic oppression from Romanians, not because the hardship of Communist society (which all citizens endured during Ceausescu, no matter ethnicity), then you don’t need to answer my question, I know the answer already… and it makes me sad. In other words, you know better and more about Hungarians in Romania than about your Serbs – the same Serbs Mr. Thanci was inviting not to leave after UDI…

Of course Transilvania is “more Hungarian”, since it was under Hungarian domination for centuries. I would say that Transilvania is like Kosovo, compared with the rest of territories inhabited by Albania: it is very Serbian, isn’t?
Ah, and the subtle insult, inferring that Romanians are not Europeans: you suggest that being Hungarian equals being European, and being Romanian does not equals being European… Hmmm, I wonder what Albanians would be, based on that equation. But maybe is just your command of English language, or it is just me being to sensitive…

And because I want to remain optimist regarding the future of Albanian-Romanian relations, despite the “Kosovo episode”, I will thank you very seriously for emphasizing the “recent democratic changes” and the fact that “the situation with ethnic minorities are not that terrible” in Romania.
As about how we got into EU, this is both a long story and a short one. However, for the very-very-short explanation, you just need to look at the map of Europe, and know the population of Romania (little more than 22 millions). For the long story, you really have to visit my country. You will be welcomed, here are living also Albanians, together with other 15 or so minorities from countries we never had common border (Greeks, Italians, Georgians, Armenians, etc.), but we enjoy them very much. I wish Albanians in Kosovo to begin enjoying the other people living there, Serbs, Roma and others, since this is the only way forward for the new self-proclaimed Republic. And it is in the power of Albanians to do so, I am sure of that.
As Superman’s father was saying, “great power means great responsibilities”…

Good luck,

Bganon,

I must confess I have the same impression from the discourse of Albanians posting here. To me, this looks like a 'double-speech': one is for the countries who support the UDI (saying "Kosovo case is unique, sui-generis, no power of precedent, nobody should feel threatened etc.") and the second for the countries who are not accepting the UDI (accusing those countries that they are not democracies, or they are oppressing their own minorities, or are simply poor and to be despised...)

I have already seen this in the last months and weeks, in connection with Romania. Because my country doesn't accept the Kosovo UDI, most of Albanians or pro-Albanian posters are either raising up false accusations regarding Romanians mistreating Hungarian minority in Transilvania, or they simply insult Romania by labeling her as a poor, uncivilized country, which should keep quiet and follow-up the lead of US and EU big powers.

Well, I will not consider that the sayings of people posting here should be consider as the voice of their own people - after all, we are all subjective human beings. But I am very disappointed that Albanian interlocutors here are proving with (almost) each post, that they have a huge inferiority complex to overcome, and also have no idea how democracy and international law works. With other words, it is OK for them to have the international law violated, if this brings them benefit, but it's not OK if others are offering different views - no, those are simply either enemies and filo-Serbians, either stupid or unimportant and second class members of EU who should shut-up...

Just a single example of inconsistency: because Romania rejects Kosovo UDI, suddenly the country is boiling with inter-ethnic problems bla, bla, bla. But the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (a "united" kingdom, with the IRA separatist movement and loyalists fighting them already for decades) is on the safe side, only because is recognizing Kosovo UDI...

Very disappointing, indeed.

Vojvodina independance and regional family unification will eventually realized.God bless Tom Lantos soul.Unfortunatly he did not live to see the fruits of his labor passing away one week before independance.He will never be forgotten.

Thank you Hungary. We support you too.

George, the Romanian.
Well, as a proud Romanian, dont quote the ethnical proportion of Transylvania. All the Germans left Trasnylvania, and quite a lot of Hungarians did the same, too. The reason is the same, as that of the fact that today the 2nd biggest Hungarian city is Bucharest (Hungarians were forced to leave there homes).

Culturally and Historically Transylvania is more Hungarian (i.e. European) thn other parts of Romania, so many Historians outside Romania STILL believe that this territory could be like Switzerland in the East.

Thnx to the recent democratic changes in your country (plus EU membership -many ppl do not understand here in the West how Romania could get that, anyaway- the situation with ethnic minorities are not that terrible.

We know all the problem in Kosovo, and now we all see the result.

There is a huge difference between Kosovo and Transsylvania. Kosovo was an autonom province, while the Romanian government never allowed Hungarians (approx 2millions) to form an autonomous territory. What else could be their first reaction?

I think the Balkan will be more stable with the independence of Kosovo.Everyone need to understand,the Kosovo was lost in 1999. Serbia at the moment has a group of bad politician,not so far to the Milosevic era.They never are going to understand the fact of staying with Russia will be in their disfavor .UK was a empire, before romans and so ,but a day everything changed and they are what they are now.So good luck to new Serbia and of course good luck to a new country,KOSOVO!

The kosovars will get sick of their own country in 2-3 years with this level of coruption ,criminality and unemployment.Now in their minds they have an enemy - Serbia - but their real enemy is the kosovian political class.They will realize this soon.

Regarding the Szeklers region in Eastern Transilvania( Harghita and Kovasna counties) they are totally free there to do whatever they want.
The problem there is the hungarian speaking population who is oppressing the rumanian population which is in minority in this two counties.The rumanian population has suffered have losses in the 1941-1944 and 1952-1968(during the autonomous Hungarian Mures region existance).I can gave you and example in 1944 in 3 september in the center of the town Gheorgheni(i don't know the hungarian name) - 138 families of rumanians have been decapitated . It is a shame for rumanian government that rumanians are mistreated in their own country and even now- schools in rumanian languange are distroyed in the Eastern Transilvania and orthodox and greco catholic churches are closed only to satisfy the hungarian szeklers demands from that region.Every day bands of hungarians in the hargita and covasna counties are therorizing rumanian population and by using force they are threathening them to leave the harghita and covasna counties.

Anywhere else in the romanian Transilvania this is not happening because the hungarians represents less than 15% of the all transilvania region population and they don't behave like in the Szeklers Region( but even if they represent at least 20% from the villages or towns population they have schools in their own languages and the right to use the own language in offical documents).In the Szeklers region they don't even speak romanian language.I cannot explain this behavior of hungarian population there since there was not recorded any aggression against them.(even during the Ceasuescu regime they have schools and high scholls and amaizing they even have a university in hungarian language - the Babes Bolyai University in Targu Mures - Marosvasarhely).

The rumanian corupt government has steped back and lost control in the Szeklers region for years ago so i could say the Szeklers autonomous country exist in Romania for at least 15 years even is not mentioned on official documents.

The Hungarians from Szeklers region are always complaining in the international press that they are oppreesed there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!which is not true...the hungarians are the oppressors...Their representetives in the romanian government which are members of the hungarian party from Romania(which always get arround 6% of the votes at the national level from the 1,5 mil of hungarians ) are always complaining in the EU Parliamnet that the hungarian population is opressed and mistreated!!!!!!!!!!.. which is a untrue.

George, the Romanian

- I am an Austrian.
- Bucharest is the 2nd biggest Hungarian city because more Hungarians live there then in any other town after Budapest.
- Hungarians emigrated to Hungary due to ethnic problems (before and after the Ceausescu regime, pls remember the mayor of Cluj)
(I am on purpose not talking about those Germans - Saxons - who were practically forced to leave the country.
- Sorry to say, but your country does not have a damn positive image here (and this is not because of those fellow citizens of yours who ate the flamingos at Vienna Zoo a couple of years ago :)
- I totally understand why Romania is not that happy about Kosovo. (What is the situation about autonomy in your "European" country?)
Peace

Guys, get real... Do not become blinded by your happiness...

And because Geri mentioned this, there are more differences between Kosovo case and Transilvania than he identified.
First, in Transilvania are living currently a little more than 7.700.000 persons, out of which Romanians are 73,6%, Hungarians 20,8%, Roma/Gypsies 2,6%, Germans 1,4%, others 1,6%. Data are from the internet, based on the last census from 2002. So, given the absolute majority of Romanians in the area, any comparison between the demographic situation of Hungarians in Romania and the one of Albanians in Serbia/Kosovo is simply groundless.

Second, Hungarians in Transilvania are located in two counties in the center of the region, without direct contact with Hungary (not like Kosovo, sharing a common border with Albania). This is because when they arrived in Transilvania, Hungarians settled in the arch of the Carpat Mountains, creating strong feudal communities in towns from which the indigenous population, Romanians (mostly peasants) where forbidden to settle, being considered for centuries ‘second grade persons’ and barely tolerated, they and their religion (Orthodoxy) and their Latin-origin language. Therefore, today, most of the Hungarian areas are surrounded by Romanian inhabited villages.

Third, the recent past of Romanian-Hungarian relations is radically different from the one between the Serbs and Albanians in Kosovo (right now I am watching on Romanian public TV the leaders of Hungarian minority party in Romania, in a talk-show, expressing exactly this reality, and also insisting that Kosovo is a “sui-generis” case, without power of precedent for any other future similar situation). We may have been fighting for centuries, but now our countries are allies and partners in EU, NATO, and our governments have yearly joint sessions in both Budapest and Bucharest, not to mention that the Hungarian minority political party is member of the Romanian current government already for 12 continuous years!

Last but not least, a very fresh news item:
Romanian parliament just voted against recognizing Kosovo independence. The resolution proposed with this purpose by the Prime Minister was approved with 357 “yes” and “27” against, the 27 being the deputies of the Hungarian minority party (as I said before, members of the governing coalition). This is democracy in action, is their right, no problem. But Hungarians in Romania want only ‘cultural autonomy’ as it exists in other countries in EU, permitted by the Constitutions of these states, not separation on ethnic criteria. Right now, this is not the case in Romania, and it may never be. But since we are all EU citizens, it may be never the case for something like this, also because they enjoy full rights in nowadays Romania, starting with schools and University in Hungarian and ending with political parties fully involved in Romanian political life! So guys, don’t tell me that those are conditions for a ‘Kosovo case’ :)

Best from Bucharest,

Dear Geri, the Albanian who lives in West (of Europe).

I detect some grudge in you reply, probably because Romania’s position regarding Kosovo… Nothing I can do about it.

But thanks for pointing out that Bucharest has so many Hungarians! Maybe because it’s bigger than Budapest, and Hungarians are welcome here, even in the government? Yes, many Hungarians left, also Germans, but also Romanians left from Transilvania, emigrating in Western Europe or moving in other parts of our country (you know, Romania is quite big, approx. 20 times bigger than Kosovo). Almost all this departures occurred during the Communist regime (although many Germans left after the re-unification of Germany, tempted by this).
Back then, it was a big chance and opportunity for all those who decided to leave and were permitted by the Communists to do so. If I remember correctly what many historians are saying about the history of Kosovo, something similar happened with many Serbs from down there – they left for Serbia proper, Slovenia, Croatia, other parts of Yugoslavia, even abroad. Are you Albanians accepting any quilt for these departures? Not so much, based on my talks with hundreds of Kosovo Albanians, while spending 3 years in Kosovo. If you suggest that the Hungarians who left from Transilvania did this because ethnic oppression from Romanians, not because the hardship of Communist society (which all citizens endured during Ceausescu, no matter ethnicity), then you don’t need to answer my question, I know the answer already… and it makes me sad. In other words, you know better and more about Hungarians in Romania than about your Serbs – the same Serbs Mr. Thanci was inviting not to leave after UDI…

Of course Transilvania is “more Hungarian”, since it was under Hungarian domination for centuries. I would say that Transilvania is like Kosovo, compared with the rest of territories inhabited by Albania: it is very Serbian, isn’t?
Ah, and the subtle insult, inferring that Romanians are not Europeans: you suggest that being Hungarian equals being European, and being Romanian does not equals being European… Hmmm, I wonder what Albanians would be, based on that equation. But maybe is just your command of English language, or it is just me being to sensitive…

And because I want to remain optimist regarding the future of Albanian-Romanian relations, despite the “Kosovo episode”, I will thank you very seriously for emphasizing the “recent democratic changes” and the fact that “the situation with ethnic minorities are not that terrible” in Romania.
As about how we got into EU, this is both a long story and a short one. However, for the very-very-short explanation, you just need to look at the map of Europe, and know the population of Romania (little more than 22 millions). For the long story, you really have to visit my country. You will be welcomed, here are living also Albanians, together with other 15 or so minorities from countries we never had common border (Greeks, Italians, Georgians, Armenians, etc.), but we enjoy them very much. I wish Albanians in Kosovo to begin enjoying the other people living there, Serbs, Roma and others, since this is the only way forward for the new self-proclaimed Republic. And it is in the power of Albanians to do so, I am sure of that.
As Superman’s father was saying, “great power means great responsibilities”…

Good luck,

I'm amazed by the reaction of some in the Albanian camp here.

I thought insisted that Kosovo is a unique case. Now all of a sudden what the Serbs have been saying about the danger from other seperatist movements and you are even supporting it!

Lets have some consistency please, or a little more honesty.

Let me help, Kosovo is not a unique case as we all know and other movements will point to Kosovo as a model. Still as the world sows so shall it reap...

Bganon,

I must confess I have the same impression from the discourse of Albanians posting here. To me, this looks like a 'double-speech': one is for the countries who support the UDI (saying "Kosovo case is unique, sui-generis, no power of precedent, nobody should feel threatened etc.") and the second for the countries who are not accepting the UDI (accusing those countries that they are not democracies, or they are oppressing their own minorities, or are simply poor and to be despised...)

I have already seen this in the last months and weeks, in connection with Romania. Because my country doesn't accept the Kosovo UDI, most of Albanians or pro-Albanian posters are either raising up false accusations regarding Romanians mistreating Hungarian minority in Transilvania, or they simply insult Romania by labeling her as a poor, uncivilized country, which should keep quiet and follow-up the lead of US and EU big powers.

Well, I will not consider that the sayings of people posting here should be consider as the voice of their own people - after all, we are all subjective human beings. But I am very disappointed that Albanian interlocutors here are proving with (almost) each post, that they have a huge inferiority complex to overcome, and also have no idea how democracy and international law works. With other words, it is OK for them to have the international law violated, if this brings them benefit, but it's not OK if others are offering different views - no, those are simply either enemies and filo-Serbians, either stupid or unimportant and second class members of EU who should shut-up...

Just a single example of inconsistency: because Romania rejects Kosovo UDI, suddenly the country is boiling with inter-ethnic problems bla, bla, bla. But the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (a "united" kingdom, with the IRA separatist movement and loyalists fighting them already for decades) is on the safe side, only because is recognizing Kosovo UDI...

Very disappointing, indeed.

good luck Serbia,

You must be a member of the Greater-Romania party to write such a post. It has nothing to do with reality. It is pure fabrication about the Szeklers or Szekely. It is not worthy of further comment.