Well thats normal,its not a big deal since serbia has 7 milion people,and there were protestin about 150 or 200 people they will get over Kosovo and move ahed with eurpian reforms.
what you fail to see is: UNSC 1244 still in force = Serbia is the sovereign.
what the K-albanians declare doesn´t mean a lot, legally.
that´s only lipservice for the albanian masses in Kosovo.
in reality, they still live on serbian territory. and hopefully they will accomodate within a few years with western civilizational values... then they will be told, that UNSC 1244 is still in effect and that it can stay like this, since they have experienced broad autonomy...
otherwise, they could be treated as occupiers, what would not be quite good for them...
but for now, let the kids cheer a little bit more... who is partying around ...doesn´t threat KFOR or other internationals... that´s what it seems to be all about.
the problem is, we cannot prove it now..it will take some time...
but with UNSC 1244 in force I feel very good. and what is recognized today can be revoked again...and it wouldn´t even be a great scandal, since UNSC 1244 is very clear on this...
The Western media does from time to time show that the Serbs cemetaries and homes have been desecrated or destroyed. Unfortunately the West sees how the Albanians were slaughtered by the Milosevic regime. I congradulate the Serbian people for ridding the Balkans of a tyrant dictator and I am deeply sympathetic for the probable loss of Kosovo.
the Kosovo action cooked up by the the USA and the EU slaves is totally disgraceful . However
now western Europe and the US
will have a puppet state totally
non functional and in need of
long term economic aid .
The operation of dismembering
old Yugoslavia has been successful and the result is a series of small states that can be more easily controlled
by the control freaks in Washington .
But this new small state will behave exactly like Slovenia (a lap dog of the Crims in the White House ) . Bush orders to jump and in Lubiana they ask : how high sir ? The same applies to most EU states , they take orders from Washington . So much for political independence .
The EU is a false democracy everything is rigged and Every state is a Police State that take orders from Washington . Be careful
about joining the EU , you might end up with american bases there , the empire has already hundreds of them all over the world . Once you have the american bases , you are no longer free , the US ambassador will decide your foreign policy .
"Thirdly - Jovan - you mentioned that graves were being desecrated in Kosovo, there's been no media reports of that tonight."
(Stuart, 18 February 2008 00:24)
my dear Stuart,
christian cemeteries are being vandalized and desecrated for almost 10 years now... and you dare to say that the media is not mentioning it today?
I can only shake my head in regard to the indecency of that ignorance.
ps: isn´t strange in your eyes that western media has never shown any footage of those desecrated cemeteries in the western tv-channels?
"I can understand the anger of serbs, but the same thing happened 68 years ago.
In those days the bed guys were the nazi.
(arthur, 17 February 2008 21:45)"
Arthur, you are not getting this right. Nazis were bad 68 ago because they took the land from somebody else. Now the land is being taken from Serbia and the parallel with Nazis applies to people taking the land, not Serbians. Accidentally enough the same guys that were killing and expelling Serbians in Kosovo in WWII are now allies in defying international law and Serbian integrity, committing the same crimes. We all know how it ends like 5 to 6 years down the road.
Wake up Serbians this kind of wanton destruction by nationalists and i include Kostunica,s pathetic statement make the Majority of Serbian citizens sick we want jobs education a future for our children in Europe we do not want to be held hostage by nationalist sentements.
The riots last night in Belgrade show that this government, prime minister and president are quite irresponsible to protect not only Kosovo, but its own citizens as well.
To all those concerned with international law I advise you to visit the UN's website and watch the webcasts from the UNSC chambers.
Resolution 1244 guarantees Jugoslavia sovereignty only for the transitional period prior to the final settlement of Kosova's status. Today that transitional period is over. Hence 1244 does not guarantee Jugoslavia's sovereignty starting from today. Therefore no resolution or international law is or was broken. This is not an Albanian talking. These are the words of the US and UK representatives, of people who wrote and know the text. Go watch it yourself.
The reason why Serbia wanted to drag discussions to infinity is because the transitional period would last to infinity and thus their sovereignty would be guaranteed for as long as there was a transitional period. It is also because of how 1244 is written that Russia cannot do anything about it. All it can do is veto Kosova's membership in the UN. Other than that Russia has no argument where it can find the West at fault since by the recognition of Kosova's independence from the West, they are also telling Russia that the transitional period is over.
JohnBoy said >> More to come. Since they attacked B92 (as I predicted), we can assume that parts of this story are falsified and it was Tadic's name that they were insulting and not Kostunica.
JohnBoy, you are right! They were mostly calling out Tadic's name, a couple of odd shouts did mention Kostunica but nowhere near the amount of times Tadic was shouted in anger. I know this for fact as one of my good friends covered the story on the streets last night.
It was just a few days ago. In an interview with Polish daily, Gazeta Wyborcza, professor Adam Rotfeld, former Foreign Minister of Poland asked about if secession of Kosovo will be legal, said:
["Moze nie bedzie w pelni legalne, ale inne rozwiazanie byloby gorsze. Zgodnie z prawem miedzynarodowym kazdy naród ma prawo do samostanowienia, jednak jest ono oblozone pewnymi warunkami. Europejczyków obowiazuje Akt Koncowy Konferencji Bezpieczenstwa i Wspólpracy w Europie z 1975 r. stanowiacy, ze oderwanie musi nastapic za porozumieniem stron. Ten warunek nie jest spelniony."]
"Perhaps it won't be completely legal but any other solution would be worse.[....] All Europeans are obliged by Final Act of Security and Cooperation in Europe from 1975that states that any secession can be done with agreement of the both sides. There is no such agreement"
Dear professor, things can not be partially legal like a woman can not be partially pregnant.
It is shame on the government of my country which knowingly support an illegal action of UE.
Dear Serbs, I think this government doesn't represent my nation and for sure it doesn't represent me.
And, please, keep your emotions under control. You don't have to destroy Mc Donald. The best destruction will be a boycott. Boycott McDonald, boycott Coca Cola, boycott everything what you can, what is not necessary for living. Make a list, publish and appeal for a boycott.
Carl from Sweden: Well we DID celebrate here in the US. Here some proof. Anyway cheers.
http://picasaweb.google.com/DritanGuci/KosovoIndependence
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48795156@N00/
when i saw the news on TV, and those people there trying to destroy the US and Slovenian embassies, I first thought about the Hollywood movies, where Serbs always play the “bed guy”, and so I didn’t need to think and analyze more those guys playing their acts with the Serbian police, the only difference on this movie, they were destroying their own country and city.
Serbs are weak, gutless and directionless about Kosovo - you have no love and idea about serbian culture and history - you are now a lost and useless society - now you will give up Voivodina and there be just a dot left. that is what happens when you become compromisors and back room dealers with the EU.
I should say that the remarks of some of the posters joking about mobs in Belgrade may be in reaction to earlier comments regarding the 2004 riots. Secondly, one cannot blame the police for guarding mosques. These were torched the last time there was rioting in Belgrade in relation to Kosovo in 2004. Thirdly - Jovan - you mentioned that graves were being desecrated in Kosovo, there's been no media reports of that tonight. However, grenades and attacks have been made in northern Mitrovica against UN and EU targets in areas where the majority of the population votes for the Serb radical party. Taken together, events in Belgrade and Mitrovica make the non-violent discourse ring hollow.
My God! I have never seen more Albanian Flags in my life, than the amount I saw today in Times Square. There must have been upwards of 100 thousand Albanians in the Square both in cars and on foot, waving Albanian and American flags. All the cars were late model Mercedes-Benzes or BMWs too, which shows you where out preferences lie, wherever we are. And all the popular radio stations in NY were wishing them well and giving positive views of the democratically achieved independence. It rocks being Albanian in NY today.
Having just come back from a holiday in Serbia where we met genuine and proud people. It makes me sad that yet again Serbia and its people are at the centre of an international incident that can only do harm to a beautiful country and its people. Good luck to you all and I hope there is a peaceful and happy ending to your problems.
As amaizing to learn how the history repeates: the same western-european countries which demolished Czechoslovakia in Munich 1938 are promoting the "independence" of one of Serbian provinces.
And only Russia seems again to oppose. Other european countries, like my home country Poland, remain sillent. What a shame.
I hope that the unjustice done today to Serbia will one day hit back the abobe "sponsors" of this scandal. The day will come for Scottland, Corsica, Southtirol, who knows even for Lusitania..
In January 1972 in Derry, Northern Ireland, 13 peaceful Catholic demonstrators were shot dead by the British Army. (Bloody Sunday) Three days later there was a massive protest march in Dublin. The marchers descended on the British Embassy and burnt it to the ground. Most people on the island of Ireland thought it was justified.
Whether right or wrong, this kind of thing happens when a country is traumatised by some great injustice inflicted by another. So let's not get too upset by events in Belgrade tonight.
Albanians here can't wait to say something sarcastic about Serbia. I guess this is part of the "Friendship" policy Albins are offering the Serbs, from their illegal toy colony, Kosova. BTW, why aren't you guys out celebrating your leaders' phoney declaration, instead of hanging around a Serbian news site? Is it Serb envy?
I have to agree with Mike I saw these 'protests' with my own eyes from republic square, then I followed them around until the police charged at me, so I had to run.
Most of those kids were laughing, looking at this as a chance to settle scores with police. Kosovo was a pretext for hooliganism. They were not angry 'people', they were angry basketball fans who were expecting to watch Zvedza against Partizan today until all of them were forbidden entry apart from season ticket holders. Kosovo was just an excuse to go on the rampage, something they do regularly.
I dont agree that the police did a particularly good job. People breaking the law should be arrested, everybody knows that. The police, as far as I could see, did not arrest one person.
But on the other hand the police this evening decided to guard Belgrade mosque (makes you wonder whether its better to have a police minister in a hospital bed, or at his desk) but instead decided to let the Slovakian embassy take the strain.
If tonight the story in the western media is about happy Albanians celebrating independence and about 'primative' 'destructive' Serbs destroying in Belgrade, well does anybody think this will help or make the situation worse?
How rich of Albanians to comment on Serb violence, when those same people threatened to resort to mindless killing and destruction of everything Serb if not granted independence.
They violated international and state law an continue to ethnically clseanse Serbs of Kosovo.
But of course, teenagers throwing stones at embassy is far far worse, isn't it.
And burning of MacDonnalds is symbolic. When your country is represented by cheap nasty fast food restaurant, that is something to be worried about.
Living in Belgrade right now, I can say that these rioters are an extremely small band of idiots. I was walking earlier this evening and unfortunately ran into one of them. They're mainly a bunch of teenagers who overturned garbage dumpsters and threw rocks. Yet a block away, ordinary Serbs are still in their cafes, still smoking their cigarettes, and still minding their own business. The police did a good job containing them and steering them away from public places. To label all Serbs as these kids is both wrong and ignorant.
How typical of the EU to take it upon itself to demonize Serbs, and bypass itn'l law. I guess there are two laws in Europe.....one for Serbs, and one for non Serbs.
I certainly hope the idyllic paradise now ruled by albanians the worst of luck. You people earned it.
I can understand the anger of serbs, but the same thing happened 68 years ago.
In those days the bed guys were the nazi.
(arthur, 17 February 2008 21:45)
first of all "bed guys"? perhaps you´re mixing your intended comment up with your personal preferences?
anyway, but with comparing the Serbs with the german Nazi´s you are just showing that you are either an Albanian, or you just have no clue in regard to History.
dude, it was the Albanians who sided with them, two times in the last century.
jesus..., who knows what nonsense we will have to read here in the coming days!
It's a crowd of angry people. No surprise it go a bit violent. Let's leave the sarcastic remarks about Serbs and violence alone. People riot and do the same crap and worse in every country, such as when teams win the Superbowl in America and in France, the unhappy minorities shut down the entire capital seemingly every two years with their riots.
Paddy Ashdown thinks that Serbs will forget all this within a couple of weeks. His analysis was very condescending and dismissive of Serbian reaction.
It is true that attacking McDonalds won't achieve much - the real effort needs to be in terms of maintaining Serbia's activities within the boundary of its province and maintaining a general economic and political pressure so that the problem of Kosovo is not allowed to drift away.
Yeah, burned McDonald, burned cars on BG plates, attacked Embassy, broken lots of traffic lights, injured police etc.
Serb restoring to violence?
This is Serbia that EU wants to have and that’s why they want Serbia in EU.
More to come. Since they attacked B92 (as I predicted), we can assume that parts of this story are falsified and it was tadic's name that they were insulting and not Kostunica.
I have to condemn the police officials for putting their officers in danger by guarding these places and by hurting the protesters.
Paddy Ashdown thinks that Serbs will forget all this within a couple of weeks. His analysis was very condescending and dismissive of Serbian reaction.
It is true that attacking McDonalds won't achieve much - the real effort needs to be in terms of maintaining Serbia's activities within the boundary of its province and maintaining a general economic and political pressure so that the problem of Kosovo is not allowed to drift away.
Living in Belgrade right now, I can say that these rioters are an extremely small band of idiots. I was walking earlier this evening and unfortunately ran into one of them. They're mainly a bunch of teenagers who overturned garbage dumpsters and threw rocks. Yet a block away, ordinary Serbs are still in their cafes, still smoking their cigarettes, and still minding their own business. The police did a good job containing them and steering them away from public places. To label all Serbs as these kids is both wrong and ignorant.
How rich of Albanians to comment on Serb violence, when those same people threatened to resort to mindless killing and destruction of everything Serb if not granted independence.
They violated international and state law an continue to ethnically clseanse Serbs of Kosovo.
But of course, teenagers throwing stones at embassy is far far worse, isn't it.
And burning of MacDonnalds is symbolic. When your country is represented by cheap nasty fast food restaurant, that is something to be worried about.
As amaizing to learn how the history repeates: the same western-european countries which demolished Czechoslovakia in Munich 1938 are promoting the "independence" of one of Serbian provinces.
And only Russia seems again to oppose. Other european countries, like my home country Poland, remain sillent. What a shame.
I hope that the unjustice done today to Serbia will one day hit back the abobe "sponsors" of this scandal. The day will come for Scottland, Corsica, Southtirol, who knows even for Lusitania..
It's a crowd of angry people. No surprise it go a bit violent. Let's leave the sarcastic remarks about Serbs and violence alone. People riot and do the same crap and worse in every country, such as when teams win the Superbowl in America and in France, the unhappy minorities shut down the entire capital seemingly every two years with their riots.
I can understand the anger of serbs, but the same thing happened 68 years ago.
In those days the bed guys were the nazi.
(arthur, 17 February 2008 21:45)
first of all "bed guys"? perhaps you´re mixing your intended comment up with your personal preferences?
anyway, but with comparing the Serbs with the german Nazi´s you are just showing that you are either an Albanian, or you just have no clue in regard to History.
dude, it was the Albanians who sided with them, two times in the last century.
jesus..., who knows what nonsense we will have to read here in the coming days!
Having just come back from a holiday in Serbia where we met genuine and proud people. It makes me sad that yet again Serbia and its people are at the centre of an international incident that can only do harm to a beautiful country and its people. Good luck to you all and I hope there is a peaceful and happy ending to your problems.
In January 1972 in Derry, Northern Ireland, 13 peaceful Catholic demonstrators were shot dead by the British Army. (Bloody Sunday) Three days later there was a massive protest march in Dublin. The marchers descended on the British Embassy and burnt it to the ground. Most people on the island of Ireland thought it was justified.
Whether right or wrong, this kind of thing happens when a country is traumatised by some great injustice inflicted by another. So let's not get too upset by events in Belgrade tonight.
Albanians here can't wait to say something sarcastic about Serbia. I guess this is part of the "Friendship" policy Albins are offering the Serbs, from their illegal toy colony, Kosova. BTW, why aren't you guys out celebrating your leaders' phoney declaration, instead of hanging around a Serbian news site? Is it Serb envy?
More to come. Since they attacked B92 (as I predicted), we can assume that parts of this story are falsified and it was tadic's name that they were insulting and not Kostunica.
I have to condemn the police officials for putting their officers in danger by guarding these places and by hurting the protesters.
How typical of the EU to take it upon itself to demonize Serbs, and bypass itn'l law. I guess there are two laws in Europe.....one for Serbs, and one for non Serbs.
I certainly hope the idyllic paradise now ruled by albanians the worst of luck. You people earned it.
My God! I have never seen more Albanian Flags in my life, than the amount I saw today in Times Square. There must have been upwards of 100 thousand Albanians in the Square both in cars and on foot, waving Albanian and American flags. All the cars were late model Mercedes-Benzes or BMWs too, which shows you where out preferences lie, wherever we are. And all the popular radio stations in NY were wishing them well and giving positive views of the democratically achieved independence. It rocks being Albanian in NY today.
It was just a few days ago. In an interview with Polish daily, Gazeta Wyborcza, professor Adam Rotfeld, former Foreign Minister of Poland asked about if secession of Kosovo will be legal, said:
["Moze nie bedzie w pelni legalne, ale inne rozwiazanie byloby gorsze. Zgodnie z prawem miedzynarodowym kazdy naród ma prawo do samostanowienia, jednak jest ono oblozone pewnymi warunkami. Europejczyków obowiazuje Akt Koncowy Konferencji Bezpieczenstwa i Wspólpracy w Europie z 1975 r. stanowiacy, ze oderwanie musi nastapic za porozumieniem stron. Ten warunek nie jest spelniony."]
"Perhaps it won't be completely legal but any other solution would be worse.[....] All Europeans are obliged by Final Act of Security and Cooperation in Europe from 1975that states that any secession can be done with agreement of the both sides. There is no such agreement"
Dear professor, things can not be partially legal like a woman can not be partially pregnant.
It is shame on the government of my country which knowingly support an illegal action of UE.
Dear Serbs, I think this government doesn't represent my nation and for sure it doesn't represent me.
And, please, keep your emotions under control. You don't have to destroy Mc Donald. The best destruction will be a boycott. Boycott McDonald, boycott Coca Cola, boycott everything what you can, what is not necessary for living. Make a list, publish and appeal for a boycott.
I have to agree with Mike I saw these 'protests' with my own eyes from republic square, then I followed them around until the police charged at me, so I had to run.
Most of those kids were laughing, looking at this as a chance to settle scores with police. Kosovo was a pretext for hooliganism. They were not angry 'people', they were angry basketball fans who were expecting to watch Zvedza against Partizan today until all of them were forbidden entry apart from season ticket holders. Kosovo was just an excuse to go on the rampage, something they do regularly.
I dont agree that the police did a particularly good job. People breaking the law should be arrested, everybody knows that. The police, as far as I could see, did not arrest one person.
But on the other hand the police this evening decided to guard Belgrade mosque (makes you wonder whether its better to have a police minister in a hospital bed, or at his desk) but instead decided to let the Slovakian embassy take the strain.
If tonight the story in the western media is about happy Albanians celebrating independence and about 'primative' 'destructive' Serbs destroying in Belgrade, well does anybody think this will help or make the situation worse?
Yeah, burned McDonald, burned cars on BG plates, attacked Embassy, broken lots of traffic lights, injured police etc.
Serb restoring to violence?
This is Serbia that EU wants to have and that’s why they want Serbia in EU.
I should say that the remarks of some of the posters joking about mobs in Belgrade may be in reaction to earlier comments regarding the 2004 riots. Secondly, one cannot blame the police for guarding mosques. These were torched the last time there was rioting in Belgrade in relation to Kosovo in 2004. Thirdly - Jovan - you mentioned that graves were being desecrated in Kosovo, there's been no media reports of that tonight. However, grenades and attacks have been made in northern Mitrovica against UN and EU targets in areas where the majority of the population votes for the Serb radical party. Taken together, events in Belgrade and Mitrovica make the non-violent discourse ring hollow.
"Thirdly - Jovan - you mentioned that graves were being desecrated in Kosovo, there's been no media reports of that tonight."
(Stuart, 18 February 2008 00:24)
my dear Stuart,
christian cemeteries are being vandalized and desecrated for almost 10 years now... and you dare to say that the media is not mentioning it today?
I can only shake my head in regard to the indecency of that ignorance.
ps: isn´t strange in your eyes that western media has never shown any footage of those desecrated cemeteries in the western tv-channels?
JohnBoy said >> More to come. Since they attacked B92 (as I predicted), we can assume that parts of this story are falsified and it was Tadic's name that they were insulting and not Kostunica.
JohnBoy, you are right! They were mostly calling out Tadic's name, a couple of odd shouts did mention Kostunica but nowhere near the amount of times Tadic was shouted in anger. I know this for fact as one of my good friends covered the story on the streets last night.
"I can understand the anger of serbs, but the same thing happened 68 years ago.
In those days the bed guys were the nazi.
(arthur, 17 February 2008 21:45)"
Arthur, you are not getting this right. Nazis were bad 68 ago because they took the land from somebody else. Now the land is being taken from Serbia and the parallel with Nazis applies to people taking the land, not Serbians. Accidentally enough the same guys that were killing and expelling Serbians in Kosovo in WWII are now allies in defying international law and Serbian integrity, committing the same crimes. We all know how it ends like 5 to 6 years down the road.
To all those concerned with international law I advise you to visit the UN's website and watch the webcasts from the UNSC chambers.
Resolution 1244 guarantees Jugoslavia sovereignty only for the transitional period prior to the final settlement of Kosova's status. Today that transitional period is over. Hence 1244 does not guarantee Jugoslavia's sovereignty starting from today. Therefore no resolution or international law is or was broken. This is not an Albanian talking. These are the words of the US and UK representatives, of people who wrote and know the text. Go watch it yourself.
The reason why Serbia wanted to drag discussions to infinity is because the transitional period would last to infinity and thus their sovereignty would be guaranteed for as long as there was a transitional period. It is also because of how 1244 is written that Russia cannot do anything about it. All it can do is veto Kosova's membership in the UN. Other than that Russia has no argument where it can find the West at fault since by the recognition of Kosova's independence from the West, they are also telling Russia that the transitional period is over.
Serbs are weak, gutless and directionless about Kosovo - you have no love and idea about serbian culture and history - you are now a lost and useless society - now you will give up Voivodina and there be just a dot left. that is what happens when you become compromisors and back room dealers with the EU.
The riots last night in Belgrade show that this government, prime minister and president are quite irresponsible to protect not only Kosovo, but its own citizens as well.
Carl from Sweden: Well we DID celebrate here in the US. Here some proof. Anyway cheers.
http://picasaweb.google.com/DritanGuci/KosovoIndependence
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48795156@N00/
The Western media does from time to time show that the Serbs cemetaries and homes have been desecrated or destroyed. Unfortunately the West sees how the Albanians were slaughtered by the Milosevic regime. I congradulate the Serbian people for ridding the Balkans of a tyrant dictator and I am deeply sympathetic for the probable loss of Kosovo.
what you fail to see is: UNSC 1244 still in force = Serbia is the sovereign.
what the K-albanians declare doesn´t mean a lot, legally.
that´s only lipservice for the albanian masses in Kosovo.
in reality, they still live on serbian territory. and hopefully they will accomodate within a few years with western civilizational values... then they will be told, that UNSC 1244 is still in effect and that it can stay like this, since they have experienced broad autonomy...
otherwise, they could be treated as occupiers, what would not be quite good for them...
but for now, let the kids cheer a little bit more... who is partying around ...doesn´t threat KFOR or other internationals... that´s what it seems to be all about.
the problem is, we cannot prove it now..it will take some time...
but with UNSC 1244 in force I feel very good. and what is recognized today can be revoked again...and it wouldn´t even be a great scandal, since UNSC 1244 is very clear on this...
when i saw the news on TV, and those people there trying to destroy the US and Slovenian embassies, I first thought about the Hollywood movies, where Serbs always play the “bed guy”, and so I didn’t need to think and analyze more those guys playing their acts with the Serbian police, the only difference on this movie, they were destroying their own country and city.
Wake up Serbians this kind of wanton destruction by nationalists and i include Kostunica,s pathetic statement make the Majority of Serbian citizens sick we want jobs education a future for our children in Europe we do not want to be held hostage by nationalist sentements.
the Kosovo action cooked up by the the USA and the EU slaves is totally disgraceful . However
now western Europe and the US
will have a puppet state totally
non functional and in need of
long term economic aid .
The operation of dismembering
old Yugoslavia has been successful and the result is a series of small states that can be more easily controlled
by the control freaks in Washington .
But this new small state will behave exactly like Slovenia (a lap dog of the Crims in the White House ) . Bush orders to jump and in Lubiana they ask : how high sir ? The same applies to most EU states , they take orders from Washington . So much for political independence .
The EU is a false democracy everything is rigged and Every state is a Police State that take orders from Washington . Be careful
about joining the EU , you might end up with american bases there , the empire has already hundreds of them all over the world . Once you have the american bases , you are no longer free , the US ambassador will decide your foreign policy .
Well thats normal,its not a big deal since serbia has 7 milion people,and there were protestin about 150 or 200 people they will get over Kosovo and move ahed with eurpian reforms.
Yeah, burned McDonald, burned cars on BG plates, attacked Embassy, broken lots of traffic lights, injured police etc.
Serb restoring to violence?
This is Serbia that EU wants to have and that’s why they want Serbia in EU.
My God! I have never seen more Albanian Flags in my life, than the amount I saw today in Times Square. There must have been upwards of 100 thousand Albanians in the Square both in cars and on foot, waving Albanian and American flags. All the cars were late model Mercedes-Benzes or BMWs too, which shows you where out preferences lie, wherever we are. And all the popular radio stations in NY were wishing them well and giving positive views of the democratically achieved independence. It rocks being Albanian in NY today.
To all those concerned with international law I advise you to visit the UN's website and watch the webcasts from the UNSC chambers.
Resolution 1244 guarantees Jugoslavia sovereignty only for the transitional period prior to the final settlement of Kosova's status. Today that transitional period is over. Hence 1244 does not guarantee Jugoslavia's sovereignty starting from today. Therefore no resolution or international law is or was broken. This is not an Albanian talking. These are the words of the US and UK representatives, of people who wrote and know the text. Go watch it yourself.
The reason why Serbia wanted to drag discussions to infinity is because the transitional period would last to infinity and thus their sovereignty would be guaranteed for as long as there was a transitional period. It is also because of how 1244 is written that Russia cannot do anything about it. All it can do is veto Kosova's membership in the UN. Other than that Russia has no argument where it can find the West at fault since by the recognition of Kosova's independence from the West, they are also telling Russia that the transitional period is over.
I have to agree with Mike I saw these 'protests' with my own eyes from republic square, then I followed them around until the police charged at me, so I had to run.
Most of those kids were laughing, looking at this as a chance to settle scores with police. Kosovo was a pretext for hooliganism. They were not angry 'people', they were angry basketball fans who were expecting to watch Zvedza against Partizan today until all of them were forbidden entry apart from season ticket holders. Kosovo was just an excuse to go on the rampage, something they do regularly.
I dont agree that the police did a particularly good job. People breaking the law should be arrested, everybody knows that. The police, as far as I could see, did not arrest one person.
But on the other hand the police this evening decided to guard Belgrade mosque (makes you wonder whether its better to have a police minister in a hospital bed, or at his desk) but instead decided to let the Slovakian embassy take the strain.
If tonight the story in the western media is about happy Albanians celebrating independence and about 'primative' 'destructive' Serbs destroying in Belgrade, well does anybody think this will help or make the situation worse?
I should say that the remarks of some of the posters joking about mobs in Belgrade may be in reaction to earlier comments regarding the 2004 riots. Secondly, one cannot blame the police for guarding mosques. These were torched the last time there was rioting in Belgrade in relation to Kosovo in 2004. Thirdly - Jovan - you mentioned that graves were being desecrated in Kosovo, there's been no media reports of that tonight. However, grenades and attacks have been made in northern Mitrovica against UN and EU targets in areas where the majority of the population votes for the Serb radical party. Taken together, events in Belgrade and Mitrovica make the non-violent discourse ring hollow.
Carl from Sweden: Well we DID celebrate here in the US. Here some proof. Anyway cheers.
http://picasaweb.google.com/DritanGuci/KosovoIndependence
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48795156@N00/
More to come. Since they attacked B92 (as I predicted), we can assume that parts of this story are falsified and it was tadic's name that they were insulting and not Kostunica.
I have to condemn the police officials for putting their officers in danger by guarding these places and by hurting the protesters.
In January 1972 in Derry, Northern Ireland, 13 peaceful Catholic demonstrators were shot dead by the British Army. (Bloody Sunday) Three days later there was a massive protest march in Dublin. The marchers descended on the British Embassy and burnt it to the ground. Most people on the island of Ireland thought it was justified.
Whether right or wrong, this kind of thing happens when a country is traumatised by some great injustice inflicted by another. So let's not get too upset by events in Belgrade tonight.
when i saw the news on TV, and those people there trying to destroy the US and Slovenian embassies, I first thought about the Hollywood movies, where Serbs always play the “bed guy”, and so I didn’t need to think and analyze more those guys playing their acts with the Serbian police, the only difference on this movie, they were destroying their own country and city.
Paddy Ashdown thinks that Serbs will forget all this within a couple of weeks. His analysis was very condescending and dismissive of Serbian reaction.
It is true that attacking McDonalds won't achieve much - the real effort needs to be in terms of maintaining Serbia's activities within the boundary of its province and maintaining a general economic and political pressure so that the problem of Kosovo is not allowed to drift away.
I can understand the anger of serbs, but the same thing happened 68 years ago.
In those days the bed guys were the nazi.
(arthur, 17 February 2008 21:45)
first of all "bed guys"? perhaps you´re mixing your intended comment up with your personal preferences?
anyway, but with comparing the Serbs with the german Nazi´s you are just showing that you are either an Albanian, or you just have no clue in regard to History.
dude, it was the Albanians who sided with them, two times in the last century.
jesus..., who knows what nonsense we will have to read here in the coming days!
Serbs are weak, gutless and directionless about Kosovo - you have no love and idea about serbian culture and history - you are now a lost and useless society - now you will give up Voivodina and there be just a dot left. that is what happens when you become compromisors and back room dealers with the EU.
Wake up Serbians this kind of wanton destruction by nationalists and i include Kostunica,s pathetic statement make the Majority of Serbian citizens sick we want jobs education a future for our children in Europe we do not want to be held hostage by nationalist sentements.
The Western media does from time to time show that the Serbs cemetaries and homes have been desecrated or destroyed. Unfortunately the West sees how the Albanians were slaughtered by the Milosevic regime. I congradulate the Serbian people for ridding the Balkans of a tyrant dictator and I am deeply sympathetic for the probable loss of Kosovo.
It's a crowd of angry people. No surprise it go a bit violent. Let's leave the sarcastic remarks about Serbs and violence alone. People riot and do the same crap and worse in every country, such as when teams win the Superbowl in America and in France, the unhappy minorities shut down the entire capital seemingly every two years with their riots.
Living in Belgrade right now, I can say that these rioters are an extremely small band of idiots. I was walking earlier this evening and unfortunately ran into one of them. They're mainly a bunch of teenagers who overturned garbage dumpsters and threw rocks. Yet a block away, ordinary Serbs are still in their cafes, still smoking their cigarettes, and still minding their own business. The police did a good job containing them and steering them away from public places. To label all Serbs as these kids is both wrong and ignorant.
Albanians here can't wait to say something sarcastic about Serbia. I guess this is part of the "Friendship" policy Albins are offering the Serbs, from their illegal toy colony, Kosova. BTW, why aren't you guys out celebrating your leaders' phoney declaration, instead of hanging around a Serbian news site? Is it Serb envy?
How rich of Albanians to comment on Serb violence, when those same people threatened to resort to mindless killing and destruction of everything Serb if not granted independence.
They violated international and state law an continue to ethnically clseanse Serbs of Kosovo.
But of course, teenagers throwing stones at embassy is far far worse, isn't it.
And burning of MacDonnalds is symbolic. When your country is represented by cheap nasty fast food restaurant, that is something to be worried about.
How typical of the EU to take it upon itself to demonize Serbs, and bypass itn'l law. I guess there are two laws in Europe.....one for Serbs, and one for non Serbs.
I certainly hope the idyllic paradise now ruled by albanians the worst of luck. You people earned it.
Having just come back from a holiday in Serbia where we met genuine and proud people. It makes me sad that yet again Serbia and its people are at the centre of an international incident that can only do harm to a beautiful country and its people. Good luck to you all and I hope there is a peaceful and happy ending to your problems.
As amaizing to learn how the history repeates: the same western-european countries which demolished Czechoslovakia in Munich 1938 are promoting the "independence" of one of Serbian provinces.
And only Russia seems again to oppose. Other european countries, like my home country Poland, remain sillent. What a shame.
I hope that the unjustice done today to Serbia will one day hit back the abobe "sponsors" of this scandal. The day will come for Scottland, Corsica, Southtirol, who knows even for Lusitania..
JohnBoy said >> More to come. Since they attacked B92 (as I predicted), we can assume that parts of this story are falsified and it was Tadic's name that they were insulting and not Kostunica.
JohnBoy, you are right! They were mostly calling out Tadic's name, a couple of odd shouts did mention Kostunica but nowhere near the amount of times Tadic was shouted in anger. I know this for fact as one of my good friends covered the story on the streets last night.
It was just a few days ago. In an interview with Polish daily, Gazeta Wyborcza, professor Adam Rotfeld, former Foreign Minister of Poland asked about if secession of Kosovo will be legal, said:
["Moze nie bedzie w pelni legalne, ale inne rozwiazanie byloby gorsze. Zgodnie z prawem miedzynarodowym kazdy naród ma prawo do samostanowienia, jednak jest ono oblozone pewnymi warunkami. Europejczyków obowiazuje Akt Koncowy Konferencji Bezpieczenstwa i Wspólpracy w Europie z 1975 r. stanowiacy, ze oderwanie musi nastapic za porozumieniem stron. Ten warunek nie jest spelniony."]
"Perhaps it won't be completely legal but any other solution would be worse.[....] All Europeans are obliged by Final Act of Security and Cooperation in Europe from 1975that states that any secession can be done with agreement of the both sides. There is no such agreement"
Dear professor, things can not be partially legal like a woman can not be partially pregnant.
It is shame on the government of my country which knowingly support an illegal action of UE.
Dear Serbs, I think this government doesn't represent my nation and for sure it doesn't represent me.
And, please, keep your emotions under control. You don't have to destroy Mc Donald. The best destruction will be a boycott. Boycott McDonald, boycott Coca Cola, boycott everything what you can, what is not necessary for living. Make a list, publish and appeal for a boycott.
The riots last night in Belgrade show that this government, prime minister and president are quite irresponsible to protect not only Kosovo, but its own citizens as well.
"I can understand the anger of serbs, but the same thing happened 68 years ago.
In those days the bed guys were the nazi.
(arthur, 17 February 2008 21:45)"
Arthur, you are not getting this right. Nazis were bad 68 ago because they took the land from somebody else. Now the land is being taken from Serbia and the parallel with Nazis applies to people taking the land, not Serbians. Accidentally enough the same guys that were killing and expelling Serbians in Kosovo in WWII are now allies in defying international law and Serbian integrity, committing the same crimes. We all know how it ends like 5 to 6 years down the road.
"Thirdly - Jovan - you mentioned that graves were being desecrated in Kosovo, there's been no media reports of that tonight."
(Stuart, 18 February 2008 00:24)
my dear Stuart,
christian cemeteries are being vandalized and desecrated for almost 10 years now... and you dare to say that the media is not mentioning it today?
I can only shake my head in regard to the indecency of that ignorance.
ps: isn´t strange in your eyes that western media has never shown any footage of those desecrated cemeteries in the western tv-channels?
the Kosovo action cooked up by the the USA and the EU slaves is totally disgraceful . However
now western Europe and the US
will have a puppet state totally
non functional and in need of
long term economic aid .
The operation of dismembering
old Yugoslavia has been successful and the result is a series of small states that can be more easily controlled
by the control freaks in Washington .
But this new small state will behave exactly like Slovenia (a lap dog of the Crims in the White House ) . Bush orders to jump and in Lubiana they ask : how high sir ? The same applies to most EU states , they take orders from Washington . So much for political independence .
The EU is a false democracy everything is rigged and Every state is a Police State that take orders from Washington . Be careful
about joining the EU , you might end up with american bases there , the empire has already hundreds of them all over the world . Once you have the american bases , you are no longer free , the US ambassador will decide your foreign policy .
what you fail to see is: UNSC 1244 still in force = Serbia is the sovereign.
what the K-albanians declare doesn´t mean a lot, legally.
that´s only lipservice for the albanian masses in Kosovo.
in reality, they still live on serbian territory. and hopefully they will accomodate within a few years with western civilizational values... then they will be told, that UNSC 1244 is still in effect and that it can stay like this, since they have experienced broad autonomy...
otherwise, they could be treated as occupiers, what would not be quite good for them...
but for now, let the kids cheer a little bit more... who is partying around ...doesn´t threat KFOR or other internationals... that´s what it seems to be all about.
the problem is, we cannot prove it now..it will take some time...
but with UNSC 1244 in force I feel very good. and what is recognized today can be revoked again...and it wouldn´t even be a great scandal, since UNSC 1244 is very clear on this...
Well thats normal,its not a big deal since serbia has 7 milion people,and there were protestin about 150 or 200 people they will get over Kosovo and move ahed with eurpian reforms.
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