18

Saturday, 16.02.2008.

11:49

EU and Kosovo recognition: Individual decisions

The EU member states will make their individual decisions regarding the recognition of Kosovo.

Izvor: B92

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18 Komentari

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Canadian

pre 16 godina

Serbia to punish Macedonia? How? By cutting off its route to Greece? Take a look at the map.
(genc, 17 February 2008 00:26)

Genc, You obviously know nothing about Macedonia or Serbia.

The Macedonians get 40% of their energy from Serbia, and alomst a quarter of all Macedonian exports go to Serbia. Cut off those things and what do you think will happen to Macedonia? And spare the argument that such an act by Serbia will hurt her more than Macedonia, because Serbia has recently developed a multi-Billion dollar trade agreement with Russia so they can afford to lose Macedonia but Macedonia cannot afford to lose Serbia.

Do you get it now?

jimmy

pre 16 godina

It does not matter if Russia,Romania,Greece,Spain do not
recognize Kosovo,remember
all it takes is the 800lbs gorilla in the room.U.S.A.We still run the world.What we say goes.

vujadin

pre 16 godina

"... tomorrow's declaration of independence will be more like a declaration of dependence on a few powerful countries."

nice...

genc

pre 16 godina

Canadian,

didn't you predict that Germany was not to recognize Kosovo?
Serbia to punish Macedonia? How? By cutting off its route to Greece? Take a look at the map.

shqarthi

pre 16 godina

George the Romanian,
thanks for your post..
I understand the Romanian position and hope things will get better for Romania and Moldova. Every people and every country should do what's best for their interests. I am sure European membership will help your country.
As for the Albanians of Kosovo, there is nothing less than Independence that they would have accepted. Even if they had accepted talks about autonomy(after what happened in 1998-1999 and the few years before that), then one must define autonomy in this case: Would they deal directly with EU for membership or since they are autonomous, they must go through Belgrade?
Do they deal directly with EU for the funds for undeveloped countries and regions of Europe, or again they must go through Belgrade?
What about NATO membership?
And many many of this type of issues. With Russia's veto looming on each of them and the need for "compromise".
Keeping in mind that Belgrade considers Albanians of Kosovo as terrorists (Kostunica's speach two days ago) and many Serbs view them as invaders.
This IS the best solution for the two peoples. We don't trust and don't like each other for now, so everybody on its own path for now. Starting with respect for minorities. Kosovo Serbs don't trust Albanians and I understand that and I understand that the guarantees that the Albanian side is giving them is not enough for them. It's one of the main reasons the European mission is coming, as a guarantee that the Serb minority will be respected. Belgrade can't do that, it can't physically reach all the Serbs in Kosovo.
Romania has other problems, whose solution is viewed by Romanians as conflicting with the solution of Kosovo. Any country should think for its own interests and that's normal. I hope the day comes for Romania, when its citizens and politicians won't have such pressing issues when dealing with foreign politics.

Mike,
6 months or 1 year is not enough time to see positive changes. 6 months is barely enough time to set up things and start them running. All eastern European countries have been struggling for much longer to see just a start of change. I agree with you that this puts much of the responsibility on the Albanian government and makes Kosovo dependent on other countries. But Kosovo has always been dependent on other countries, usually Serbia, and that didn't work well on Albanians. There's nothing to be ashamed of in being dependent for some time and asking for help from Europe and US. Especially when the alternative is known.

john LOQJA

pre 16 godina

To the comentator # 9! Romanian comentator! Your coment looks sincere. We understand your Moldavian plea and other ethnic problems. But refusing Kosova independence will not help you anyway. You have to deal with Rusian bear and that is not easy.If something happens with your Moldova its hard to rush to your defence.So it will be wise for your goverment to make sure Moldova gets in Nato as a whole country.We expect that in a near future Romania will recognise Kosova. For the moment we understand your dilema.

Lola

pre 16 godina

This proclaiming of illegal independance of Kosovo should not wory Serbs too much. Albaniens will proclaim and Serbs will denounce and that is it.

West just wants to come them down little longer. They will get rid of terrorists, feed and ejucate others so that they learn to obey the law instead of killing people.

***Please contribute to organizations that help Kosovo Serbs that are forced to leave in horrible conditions-help as well as you can-go to serbianna.com or suc & etc*******

smile

pre 16 godina

george, thank you for the kind and reasonable words. but, my good man, whatever gave you the idea we are kind or reasonable here in the balkans netherworld ;) are you romanian or what now :)

seriously, seriously though: kosovo however will not be independent until it is recognized by either belgrade or un, or both. that's how it goes. in order for us to secure this, we are going to stay in the bear's hug, knowing full well what it means and who's holding us. and we will pay good money too-already have. we are now all bear's. hello, teddy :) you know i grew up pro western and it will never leave me, but this is how much it means to us to preserve our country. this much, and more.
and this message is from one of those tadic's voters that the eu thinks they got in the bag ;) they will learn better. nobody, no one in this country, except perhaps for a handful of ldp hooey followers, voted for eu in exchange for kosovo. put the choice before us, kosovo or the eu, and it's kosovo. tadic will have to choose this too or resign. it's that simple. he has brought the democrats back from the brink of the abyss in 2004, to be a very strong player today but our party will go down if he plays with kosovo. kostunica and srs will easily force it as the central issue.

genc

pre 16 godina

Srboslav,

apart of your sarcasm, it seems to me that you can't admit a concept like "freedom of thought and speech" applied to the "albanian party". Neither seem you able to grasp the "individuality" beyond the "party". Old conceptions from older times. As for the Iraqi disaster, anyone in Kosovo would confirm this to you, even the politicians (in private, just like in the States), as everyone would remind you that Rumsfeld pushed hard for a US pull-out of Balcans (remeber?) and many in Belgrade were rubbing their hands with impatience.

Everything isn't just black and white, you know.

George

pre 16 godina

Hi, everybody,
Just some thoughts from a Romanian: since the recognition of Kosovo independence is now rather a problem of bilateral relations of each EU member with Pristina and Belgrade, the issue is quite clear for Bucharest: we are friends with both Serbian and Albanian peoples already for centuries, but we are neighbors with Serbia. There may be many things money can buy, but good neighbors are hard to find these days...

Therefore, just to make sure everybody gets it right, I will say this on behalf of many Romanians, friends of myself, whom opinions on the Kosovo subject I know quite well. You may consider this as a 'digest' of the Romanians state-of-mind – among them politicians, media people and intellectuals:

For Albanians:
Sorry, but we simply cannot support you on this separatist action. It is not because we may think you are bad or strange people - which is not the case, since many Romanians are considering Albanians as interesting people, proud and to be admired for their culture (and more resembling to us than, let's say, Australians or Finns). You may try to convince us you deserve independence because you cannot/don’t want to trust Serbia to respect your rights, but there is no guarantee we will ever accept this idea. It is nothing personal, and also it is not something like "we like the Serbs, therefore we dislike Kosovo Albanians". Simply, supporting you will go out of our way of thinking, especially when is about the future of other parts of the world: forget about Transilvania and Hungarian minority there, this is a closed issue already, but think of Moldavia Republic, also a neighboring (sister) country we fully support in getting back its territorial integrity, meaning taking back the control of the separatist Transdniestr region so far encouraged by Russia... You see, we simply do not want to give Russia a tool to dismember Moldavia, it's simply like that.
You may understand our position or not, it is your problem. You may ignore us, but this is also posing no problem for us (rather for you, given the difference between the international status&position of Romania and the one of Kosovo). For that matter, you may insult and threat us (as it happened already on this forum) and we will not care too much about it. Why? Because if you spend just 5 minutes thinking ‘out of the box’, then you may realize who US really need as allies in this part of the world. As you know already, big powers are interested only in their business. Only because you benefit now from this axiom doesn't mean you will benefit forever. Trust us (Romanians) in this matter: been there, done that already.

For Serbs:
We regret we could not help you out with this. We had no leverage, no influence, no power to change the outcome. We only hope every Serb knows that Romanians - both politicians and the common people - expected the situation to evolve toward some compromise acceptable for both sides. But it seems bigger and richer countries decided already otherwise. I say this not as excuse, but to make sure you understand our position, as friends and neighbors. We understand your sorrow and frustration, and you are right to feel betrayed. But this is only the beginning, not the end: there are other battles to come... so you should learn from the past and look towards the future.
Last but not least, a well-intended advice: be careful with the Russians. A bear is a bear, and his hug is dangerous whatever he is smiling or not... Romanians have seen this happening for decades, behind the Iron Curtain!

Best to everybody,
George the Romanian

Srboslav

pre 16 godina

" due to major geopolitical issues, as the Bush-Rumsfeld Iraqi disaster"

What disaster?? I thought that the albanian party always claimed that the Bush administration were doing the right thing, and to start a war agains Iraq because of their possesions of Weapons Of Mass Destructions did make the world safer, right? At least Bush and Rumsfeld told us so, don't you dare to question them! Then you could easy be removed from their "favored terrorist group"! Trust me on this one, if you critizice Bush, the US will once again declare KLA a terrorist organisation just like they did until 1998

Canadian

pre 16 godina

I think many will be surprised to hear on Monday that the list of 7 EU members not to recognize illegal Independence will be in fact 9.

I predict that we will learn that Bulgaria and Hungary will be on that list, the Bulgarians because of Russian Energy pressure and Hungary because of obvious reasons.

And don't count on Montenegro as a supporter, it would be political suicide for them.

So as far as trade is concerned the Albanians may only have Macedonia and that won't last too long either because if the Serb government decides to punish Macedonia through energy and trade cut off it will hurt them beyond recovery, thus that support may not last too long either.

Heka

pre 16 godina

Although I have been a long-time hopeful in EU's ability to become a force in international arena, I must admit that the EU is now experiencing the limits and costs of unanimous decision-making. This is natural if one taken into account the diversity of countries involved in terms of size, power, history, geography, etc. The limits of unanimity are true not only in Kosovo's case but in any decision. Can we hope that on certain issues decision making will move away from unanimity? Unfortunately not (at least I have lost hope).

The Swiss

pre 16 godina

Bravo, this is called uniti and EU has proven one more time that they are unable to get their acts together!
The good news, tax payers, watch out your pockets, the donor conference is on the way, somehow this 'new country' has to be feeded!

smile

pre 16 godina

the eu must force its companies to invest in kosovo. in the infrastructure, factories, small businesses, something, anything that will create jobs and allow people to earn a living. donor conferences are for palestinians. generally for regions just out of war or those stuck in limbo.

genc

pre 16 godina

Kate,

yes, it was. But it proved unattainable without meeting another preconditon: a clear status for Kosovo. Clear enough, you can't build up a society in an undefined entity (and, to be realistic, no one waited for the Kosovars to accept the authority of a state which mistreated them in such a way). And you can't force it to the 90% of its members (well, actually you could try, by diplomatic pressure and military force, but the result would have been the opposite of the aim, as March 2004 clearly shows, the result of procrastinating sine sie the decison about Kosovo, due to major geopolitical issues, as the Bush-Rumsfeld Iraqi disaster). To put it differently, the K-Albanians are a critical mass that Serbia cannot handle (as always shown since 1912).

As for the EU, this issue clearly states that it isn't still mature to handle its own problems properly. Well, a 27-voices chorus results often in a cacophony. But still there is a hope that EU has learned the lesson.

The only apparently fair solution would have been the partition along ethnical lines, thus reshaping the whole map of the ex-yugoslav republics.

Hence the real reason why 2 million Albanians can't live in Serbia, but 100.000 Serbs should continue to live in Kosovo.

Mike

pre 16 godina

"The reports from Brussels suggest that the European Union will not recognize ethnic Albanians' decision to unilaterally secede from Serbia, rather, it will leave it to each of its 27 member countries to decide."

How strategic. We couldn't even get EU unanimity on this, so we're passing the buck to individual states to make state-by-state recognition.

This has its advantages as well as drawbacks.

Advantages: from the point of view of those pushing for UDI, it gets the ball rolling. It also accounts for a nominal victory in US foreign policy since we'll no doubt trump this up as a major victory or something. It also allows Pristina to bypass formal international procedures for entering onto the world stage, and begin acting like an independent country. However, I emphasize "acting" because of the setbacks.

Setbacks: individual recognition is clearly something the main supporters for Kosovo's independence didn't want. They wanted UN and EU approval. No doubt they'll be pointing to finger at Russia and Serbia for obstructing their own agendas but it's something they have to live with. More importantly, it places direct responsibility for Kosovo's improvement squarely with the governments that recognize it. In other words, Kosovo handouts will come directly from Washington, London, and Berlin, rather than any international body. This makes Kosovo seem less like an independent state and more like a glorified colony. It also makes Kosovo almost completely dependent on the support of those countries that pushed for its independence.

When all is said and done, tomorrow's declaration of independence will be more like a declaration of dependence on a few powerful countries. Whatever we think about it, this is the scenario all sides have to deal with now. If Kosovo's international supporters can actually turn the place into a working entity, we could very well see a decrease in immediate hostitities, particularly with Serbia, and an integration of the parallel Serb institutions with those in Pristina. If 6 months to a year from now Kosovo is a barely working entity with the best and brightest of Albanians and Serbs leaving the region for a better life elsewhere, this will be seen as another pet project gone sour.

We're not closing the book on the Balkans, folks. We're starting a new chapter.

kate

pre 16 godina

"They will also call for a creation of a "democratic, multiethnic Kosovo, dedicated to the rule of law and protection of minorities and cultural and religious heritage"."

Hang on... wasn't that the stated aim of the bombardment in 1999? How farcical that the failed aims of the UN are now taken over by the equally incompetent EU.

Mike

pre 16 godina

"The reports from Brussels suggest that the European Union will not recognize ethnic Albanians' decision to unilaterally secede from Serbia, rather, it will leave it to each of its 27 member countries to decide."

How strategic. We couldn't even get EU unanimity on this, so we're passing the buck to individual states to make state-by-state recognition.

This has its advantages as well as drawbacks.

Advantages: from the point of view of those pushing for UDI, it gets the ball rolling. It also accounts for a nominal victory in US foreign policy since we'll no doubt trump this up as a major victory or something. It also allows Pristina to bypass formal international procedures for entering onto the world stage, and begin acting like an independent country. However, I emphasize "acting" because of the setbacks.

Setbacks: individual recognition is clearly something the main supporters for Kosovo's independence didn't want. They wanted UN and EU approval. No doubt they'll be pointing to finger at Russia and Serbia for obstructing their own agendas but it's something they have to live with. More importantly, it places direct responsibility for Kosovo's improvement squarely with the governments that recognize it. In other words, Kosovo handouts will come directly from Washington, London, and Berlin, rather than any international body. This makes Kosovo seem less like an independent state and more like a glorified colony. It also makes Kosovo almost completely dependent on the support of those countries that pushed for its independence.

When all is said and done, tomorrow's declaration of independence will be more like a declaration of dependence on a few powerful countries. Whatever we think about it, this is the scenario all sides have to deal with now. If Kosovo's international supporters can actually turn the place into a working entity, we could very well see a decrease in immediate hostitities, particularly with Serbia, and an integration of the parallel Serb institutions with those in Pristina. If 6 months to a year from now Kosovo is a barely working entity with the best and brightest of Albanians and Serbs leaving the region for a better life elsewhere, this will be seen as another pet project gone sour.

We're not closing the book on the Balkans, folks. We're starting a new chapter.

kate

pre 16 godina

"They will also call for a creation of a "democratic, multiethnic Kosovo, dedicated to the rule of law and protection of minorities and cultural and religious heritage"."

Hang on... wasn't that the stated aim of the bombardment in 1999? How farcical that the failed aims of the UN are now taken over by the equally incompetent EU.

The Swiss

pre 16 godina

Bravo, this is called uniti and EU has proven one more time that they are unable to get their acts together!
The good news, tax payers, watch out your pockets, the donor conference is on the way, somehow this 'new country' has to be feeded!

genc

pre 16 godina

Kate,

yes, it was. But it proved unattainable without meeting another preconditon: a clear status for Kosovo. Clear enough, you can't build up a society in an undefined entity (and, to be realistic, no one waited for the Kosovars to accept the authority of a state which mistreated them in such a way). And you can't force it to the 90% of its members (well, actually you could try, by diplomatic pressure and military force, but the result would have been the opposite of the aim, as March 2004 clearly shows, the result of procrastinating sine sie the decison about Kosovo, due to major geopolitical issues, as the Bush-Rumsfeld Iraqi disaster). To put it differently, the K-Albanians are a critical mass that Serbia cannot handle (as always shown since 1912).

As for the EU, this issue clearly states that it isn't still mature to handle its own problems properly. Well, a 27-voices chorus results often in a cacophony. But still there is a hope that EU has learned the lesson.

The only apparently fair solution would have been the partition along ethnical lines, thus reshaping the whole map of the ex-yugoslav republics.

Hence the real reason why 2 million Albanians can't live in Serbia, but 100.000 Serbs should continue to live in Kosovo.

Canadian

pre 16 godina

I think many will be surprised to hear on Monday that the list of 7 EU members not to recognize illegal Independence will be in fact 9.

I predict that we will learn that Bulgaria and Hungary will be on that list, the Bulgarians because of Russian Energy pressure and Hungary because of obvious reasons.

And don't count on Montenegro as a supporter, it would be political suicide for them.

So as far as trade is concerned the Albanians may only have Macedonia and that won't last too long either because if the Serb government decides to punish Macedonia through energy and trade cut off it will hurt them beyond recovery, thus that support may not last too long either.

George

pre 16 godina

Hi, everybody,
Just some thoughts from a Romanian: since the recognition of Kosovo independence is now rather a problem of bilateral relations of each EU member with Pristina and Belgrade, the issue is quite clear for Bucharest: we are friends with both Serbian and Albanian peoples already for centuries, but we are neighbors with Serbia. There may be many things money can buy, but good neighbors are hard to find these days...

Therefore, just to make sure everybody gets it right, I will say this on behalf of many Romanians, friends of myself, whom opinions on the Kosovo subject I know quite well. You may consider this as a 'digest' of the Romanians state-of-mind – among them politicians, media people and intellectuals:

For Albanians:
Sorry, but we simply cannot support you on this separatist action. It is not because we may think you are bad or strange people - which is not the case, since many Romanians are considering Albanians as interesting people, proud and to be admired for their culture (and more resembling to us than, let's say, Australians or Finns). You may try to convince us you deserve independence because you cannot/don’t want to trust Serbia to respect your rights, but there is no guarantee we will ever accept this idea. It is nothing personal, and also it is not something like "we like the Serbs, therefore we dislike Kosovo Albanians". Simply, supporting you will go out of our way of thinking, especially when is about the future of other parts of the world: forget about Transilvania and Hungarian minority there, this is a closed issue already, but think of Moldavia Republic, also a neighboring (sister) country we fully support in getting back its territorial integrity, meaning taking back the control of the separatist Transdniestr region so far encouraged by Russia... You see, we simply do not want to give Russia a tool to dismember Moldavia, it's simply like that.
You may understand our position or not, it is your problem. You may ignore us, but this is also posing no problem for us (rather for you, given the difference between the international status&position of Romania and the one of Kosovo). For that matter, you may insult and threat us (as it happened already on this forum) and we will not care too much about it. Why? Because if you spend just 5 minutes thinking ‘out of the box’, then you may realize who US really need as allies in this part of the world. As you know already, big powers are interested only in their business. Only because you benefit now from this axiom doesn't mean you will benefit forever. Trust us (Romanians) in this matter: been there, done that already.

For Serbs:
We regret we could not help you out with this. We had no leverage, no influence, no power to change the outcome. We only hope every Serb knows that Romanians - both politicians and the common people - expected the situation to evolve toward some compromise acceptable for both sides. But it seems bigger and richer countries decided already otherwise. I say this not as excuse, but to make sure you understand our position, as friends and neighbors. We understand your sorrow and frustration, and you are right to feel betrayed. But this is only the beginning, not the end: there are other battles to come... so you should learn from the past and look towards the future.
Last but not least, a well-intended advice: be careful with the Russians. A bear is a bear, and his hug is dangerous whatever he is smiling or not... Romanians have seen this happening for decades, behind the Iron Curtain!

Best to everybody,
George the Romanian

smile

pre 16 godina

george, thank you for the kind and reasonable words. but, my good man, whatever gave you the idea we are kind or reasonable here in the balkans netherworld ;) are you romanian or what now :)

seriously, seriously though: kosovo however will not be independent until it is recognized by either belgrade or un, or both. that's how it goes. in order for us to secure this, we are going to stay in the bear's hug, knowing full well what it means and who's holding us. and we will pay good money too-already have. we are now all bear's. hello, teddy :) you know i grew up pro western and it will never leave me, but this is how much it means to us to preserve our country. this much, and more.
and this message is from one of those tadic's voters that the eu thinks they got in the bag ;) they will learn better. nobody, no one in this country, except perhaps for a handful of ldp hooey followers, voted for eu in exchange for kosovo. put the choice before us, kosovo or the eu, and it's kosovo. tadic will have to choose this too or resign. it's that simple. he has brought the democrats back from the brink of the abyss in 2004, to be a very strong player today but our party will go down if he plays with kosovo. kostunica and srs will easily force it as the central issue.

Lola

pre 16 godina

This proclaiming of illegal independance of Kosovo should not wory Serbs too much. Albaniens will proclaim and Serbs will denounce and that is it.

West just wants to come them down little longer. They will get rid of terrorists, feed and ejucate others so that they learn to obey the law instead of killing people.

***Please contribute to organizations that help Kosovo Serbs that are forced to leave in horrible conditions-help as well as you can-go to serbianna.com or suc & etc*******

smile

pre 16 godina

the eu must force its companies to invest in kosovo. in the infrastructure, factories, small businesses, something, anything that will create jobs and allow people to earn a living. donor conferences are for palestinians. generally for regions just out of war or those stuck in limbo.

Srboslav

pre 16 godina

" due to major geopolitical issues, as the Bush-Rumsfeld Iraqi disaster"

What disaster?? I thought that the albanian party always claimed that the Bush administration were doing the right thing, and to start a war agains Iraq because of their possesions of Weapons Of Mass Destructions did make the world safer, right? At least Bush and Rumsfeld told us so, don't you dare to question them! Then you could easy be removed from their "favored terrorist group"! Trust me on this one, if you critizice Bush, the US will once again declare KLA a terrorist organisation just like they did until 1998

genc

pre 16 godina

Canadian,

didn't you predict that Germany was not to recognize Kosovo?
Serbia to punish Macedonia? How? By cutting off its route to Greece? Take a look at the map.

genc

pre 16 godina

Srboslav,

apart of your sarcasm, it seems to me that you can't admit a concept like "freedom of thought and speech" applied to the "albanian party". Neither seem you able to grasp the "individuality" beyond the "party". Old conceptions from older times. As for the Iraqi disaster, anyone in Kosovo would confirm this to you, even the politicians (in private, just like in the States), as everyone would remind you that Rumsfeld pushed hard for a US pull-out of Balcans (remeber?) and many in Belgrade were rubbing their hands with impatience.

Everything isn't just black and white, you know.

john LOQJA

pre 16 godina

To the comentator # 9! Romanian comentator! Your coment looks sincere. We understand your Moldavian plea and other ethnic problems. But refusing Kosova independence will not help you anyway. You have to deal with Rusian bear and that is not easy.If something happens with your Moldova its hard to rush to your defence.So it will be wise for your goverment to make sure Moldova gets in Nato as a whole country.We expect that in a near future Romania will recognise Kosova. For the moment we understand your dilema.

jimmy

pre 16 godina

It does not matter if Russia,Romania,Greece,Spain do not
recognize Kosovo,remember
all it takes is the 800lbs gorilla in the room.U.S.A.We still run the world.What we say goes.

shqarthi

pre 16 godina

George the Romanian,
thanks for your post..
I understand the Romanian position and hope things will get better for Romania and Moldova. Every people and every country should do what's best for their interests. I am sure European membership will help your country.
As for the Albanians of Kosovo, there is nothing less than Independence that they would have accepted. Even if they had accepted talks about autonomy(after what happened in 1998-1999 and the few years before that), then one must define autonomy in this case: Would they deal directly with EU for membership or since they are autonomous, they must go through Belgrade?
Do they deal directly with EU for the funds for undeveloped countries and regions of Europe, or again they must go through Belgrade?
What about NATO membership?
And many many of this type of issues. With Russia's veto looming on each of them and the need for "compromise".
Keeping in mind that Belgrade considers Albanians of Kosovo as terrorists (Kostunica's speach two days ago) and many Serbs view them as invaders.
This IS the best solution for the two peoples. We don't trust and don't like each other for now, so everybody on its own path for now. Starting with respect for minorities. Kosovo Serbs don't trust Albanians and I understand that and I understand that the guarantees that the Albanian side is giving them is not enough for them. It's one of the main reasons the European mission is coming, as a guarantee that the Serb minority will be respected. Belgrade can't do that, it can't physically reach all the Serbs in Kosovo.
Romania has other problems, whose solution is viewed by Romanians as conflicting with the solution of Kosovo. Any country should think for its own interests and that's normal. I hope the day comes for Romania, when its citizens and politicians won't have such pressing issues when dealing with foreign politics.

Mike,
6 months or 1 year is not enough time to see positive changes. 6 months is barely enough time to set up things and start them running. All eastern European countries have been struggling for much longer to see just a start of change. I agree with you that this puts much of the responsibility on the Albanian government and makes Kosovo dependent on other countries. But Kosovo has always been dependent on other countries, usually Serbia, and that didn't work well on Albanians. There's nothing to be ashamed of in being dependent for some time and asking for help from Europe and US. Especially when the alternative is known.

vujadin

pre 16 godina

"... tomorrow's declaration of independence will be more like a declaration of dependence on a few powerful countries."

nice...

Canadian

pre 16 godina

Serbia to punish Macedonia? How? By cutting off its route to Greece? Take a look at the map.
(genc, 17 February 2008 00:26)

Genc, You obviously know nothing about Macedonia or Serbia.

The Macedonians get 40% of their energy from Serbia, and alomst a quarter of all Macedonian exports go to Serbia. Cut off those things and what do you think will happen to Macedonia? And spare the argument that such an act by Serbia will hurt her more than Macedonia, because Serbia has recently developed a multi-Billion dollar trade agreement with Russia so they can afford to lose Macedonia but Macedonia cannot afford to lose Serbia.

Do you get it now?

Heka

pre 16 godina

Although I have been a long-time hopeful in EU's ability to become a force in international arena, I must admit that the EU is now experiencing the limits and costs of unanimous decision-making. This is natural if one taken into account the diversity of countries involved in terms of size, power, history, geography, etc. The limits of unanimity are true not only in Kosovo's case but in any decision. Can we hope that on certain issues decision making will move away from unanimity? Unfortunately not (at least I have lost hope).

genc

pre 16 godina

Kate,

yes, it was. But it proved unattainable without meeting another preconditon: a clear status for Kosovo. Clear enough, you can't build up a society in an undefined entity (and, to be realistic, no one waited for the Kosovars to accept the authority of a state which mistreated them in such a way). And you can't force it to the 90% of its members (well, actually you could try, by diplomatic pressure and military force, but the result would have been the opposite of the aim, as March 2004 clearly shows, the result of procrastinating sine sie the decison about Kosovo, due to major geopolitical issues, as the Bush-Rumsfeld Iraqi disaster). To put it differently, the K-Albanians are a critical mass that Serbia cannot handle (as always shown since 1912).

As for the EU, this issue clearly states that it isn't still mature to handle its own problems properly. Well, a 27-voices chorus results often in a cacophony. But still there is a hope that EU has learned the lesson.

The only apparently fair solution would have been the partition along ethnical lines, thus reshaping the whole map of the ex-yugoslav republics.

Hence the real reason why 2 million Albanians can't live in Serbia, but 100.000 Serbs should continue to live in Kosovo.

smile

pre 16 godina

the eu must force its companies to invest in kosovo. in the infrastructure, factories, small businesses, something, anything that will create jobs and allow people to earn a living. donor conferences are for palestinians. generally for regions just out of war or those stuck in limbo.

kate

pre 16 godina

"They will also call for a creation of a "democratic, multiethnic Kosovo, dedicated to the rule of law and protection of minorities and cultural and religious heritage"."

Hang on... wasn't that the stated aim of the bombardment in 1999? How farcical that the failed aims of the UN are now taken over by the equally incompetent EU.

john LOQJA

pre 16 godina

To the comentator # 9! Romanian comentator! Your coment looks sincere. We understand your Moldavian plea and other ethnic problems. But refusing Kosova independence will not help you anyway. You have to deal with Rusian bear and that is not easy.If something happens with your Moldova its hard to rush to your defence.So it will be wise for your goverment to make sure Moldova gets in Nato as a whole country.We expect that in a near future Romania will recognise Kosova. For the moment we understand your dilema.

Mike

pre 16 godina

"The reports from Brussels suggest that the European Union will not recognize ethnic Albanians' decision to unilaterally secede from Serbia, rather, it will leave it to each of its 27 member countries to decide."

How strategic. We couldn't even get EU unanimity on this, so we're passing the buck to individual states to make state-by-state recognition.

This has its advantages as well as drawbacks.

Advantages: from the point of view of those pushing for UDI, it gets the ball rolling. It also accounts for a nominal victory in US foreign policy since we'll no doubt trump this up as a major victory or something. It also allows Pristina to bypass formal international procedures for entering onto the world stage, and begin acting like an independent country. However, I emphasize "acting" because of the setbacks.

Setbacks: individual recognition is clearly something the main supporters for Kosovo's independence didn't want. They wanted UN and EU approval. No doubt they'll be pointing to finger at Russia and Serbia for obstructing their own agendas but it's something they have to live with. More importantly, it places direct responsibility for Kosovo's improvement squarely with the governments that recognize it. In other words, Kosovo handouts will come directly from Washington, London, and Berlin, rather than any international body. This makes Kosovo seem less like an independent state and more like a glorified colony. It also makes Kosovo almost completely dependent on the support of those countries that pushed for its independence.

When all is said and done, tomorrow's declaration of independence will be more like a declaration of dependence on a few powerful countries. Whatever we think about it, this is the scenario all sides have to deal with now. If Kosovo's international supporters can actually turn the place into a working entity, we could very well see a decrease in immediate hostitities, particularly with Serbia, and an integration of the parallel Serb institutions with those in Pristina. If 6 months to a year from now Kosovo is a barely working entity with the best and brightest of Albanians and Serbs leaving the region for a better life elsewhere, this will be seen as another pet project gone sour.

We're not closing the book on the Balkans, folks. We're starting a new chapter.

Srboslav

pre 16 godina

" due to major geopolitical issues, as the Bush-Rumsfeld Iraqi disaster"

What disaster?? I thought that the albanian party always claimed that the Bush administration were doing the right thing, and to start a war agains Iraq because of their possesions of Weapons Of Mass Destructions did make the world safer, right? At least Bush and Rumsfeld told us so, don't you dare to question them! Then you could easy be removed from their "favored terrorist group"! Trust me on this one, if you critizice Bush, the US will once again declare KLA a terrorist organisation just like they did until 1998

George

pre 16 godina

Hi, everybody,
Just some thoughts from a Romanian: since the recognition of Kosovo independence is now rather a problem of bilateral relations of each EU member with Pristina and Belgrade, the issue is quite clear for Bucharest: we are friends with both Serbian and Albanian peoples already for centuries, but we are neighbors with Serbia. There may be many things money can buy, but good neighbors are hard to find these days...

Therefore, just to make sure everybody gets it right, I will say this on behalf of many Romanians, friends of myself, whom opinions on the Kosovo subject I know quite well. You may consider this as a 'digest' of the Romanians state-of-mind – among them politicians, media people and intellectuals:

For Albanians:
Sorry, but we simply cannot support you on this separatist action. It is not because we may think you are bad or strange people - which is not the case, since many Romanians are considering Albanians as interesting people, proud and to be admired for their culture (and more resembling to us than, let's say, Australians or Finns). You may try to convince us you deserve independence because you cannot/don’t want to trust Serbia to respect your rights, but there is no guarantee we will ever accept this idea. It is nothing personal, and also it is not something like "we like the Serbs, therefore we dislike Kosovo Albanians". Simply, supporting you will go out of our way of thinking, especially when is about the future of other parts of the world: forget about Transilvania and Hungarian minority there, this is a closed issue already, but think of Moldavia Republic, also a neighboring (sister) country we fully support in getting back its territorial integrity, meaning taking back the control of the separatist Transdniestr region so far encouraged by Russia... You see, we simply do not want to give Russia a tool to dismember Moldavia, it's simply like that.
You may understand our position or not, it is your problem. You may ignore us, but this is also posing no problem for us (rather for you, given the difference between the international status&position of Romania and the one of Kosovo). For that matter, you may insult and threat us (as it happened already on this forum) and we will not care too much about it. Why? Because if you spend just 5 minutes thinking ‘out of the box’, then you may realize who US really need as allies in this part of the world. As you know already, big powers are interested only in their business. Only because you benefit now from this axiom doesn't mean you will benefit forever. Trust us (Romanians) in this matter: been there, done that already.

For Serbs:
We regret we could not help you out with this. We had no leverage, no influence, no power to change the outcome. We only hope every Serb knows that Romanians - both politicians and the common people - expected the situation to evolve toward some compromise acceptable for both sides. But it seems bigger and richer countries decided already otherwise. I say this not as excuse, but to make sure you understand our position, as friends and neighbors. We understand your sorrow and frustration, and you are right to feel betrayed. But this is only the beginning, not the end: there are other battles to come... so you should learn from the past and look towards the future.
Last but not least, a well-intended advice: be careful with the Russians. A bear is a bear, and his hug is dangerous whatever he is smiling or not... Romanians have seen this happening for decades, behind the Iron Curtain!

Best to everybody,
George the Romanian

Lola

pre 16 godina

This proclaiming of illegal independance of Kosovo should not wory Serbs too much. Albaniens will proclaim and Serbs will denounce and that is it.

West just wants to come them down little longer. They will get rid of terrorists, feed and ejucate others so that they learn to obey the law instead of killing people.

***Please contribute to organizations that help Kosovo Serbs that are forced to leave in horrible conditions-help as well as you can-go to serbianna.com or suc & etc*******

genc

pre 16 godina

Srboslav,

apart of your sarcasm, it seems to me that you can't admit a concept like "freedom of thought and speech" applied to the "albanian party". Neither seem you able to grasp the "individuality" beyond the "party". Old conceptions from older times. As for the Iraqi disaster, anyone in Kosovo would confirm this to you, even the politicians (in private, just like in the States), as everyone would remind you that Rumsfeld pushed hard for a US pull-out of Balcans (remeber?) and many in Belgrade were rubbing their hands with impatience.

Everything isn't just black and white, you know.

smile

pre 16 godina

george, thank you for the kind and reasonable words. but, my good man, whatever gave you the idea we are kind or reasonable here in the balkans netherworld ;) are you romanian or what now :)

seriously, seriously though: kosovo however will not be independent until it is recognized by either belgrade or un, or both. that's how it goes. in order for us to secure this, we are going to stay in the bear's hug, knowing full well what it means and who's holding us. and we will pay good money too-already have. we are now all bear's. hello, teddy :) you know i grew up pro western and it will never leave me, but this is how much it means to us to preserve our country. this much, and more.
and this message is from one of those tadic's voters that the eu thinks they got in the bag ;) they will learn better. nobody, no one in this country, except perhaps for a handful of ldp hooey followers, voted for eu in exchange for kosovo. put the choice before us, kosovo or the eu, and it's kosovo. tadic will have to choose this too or resign. it's that simple. he has brought the democrats back from the brink of the abyss in 2004, to be a very strong player today but our party will go down if he plays with kosovo. kostunica and srs will easily force it as the central issue.

genc

pre 16 godina

Canadian,

didn't you predict that Germany was not to recognize Kosovo?
Serbia to punish Macedonia? How? By cutting off its route to Greece? Take a look at the map.

Canadian

pre 16 godina

Serbia to punish Macedonia? How? By cutting off its route to Greece? Take a look at the map.
(genc, 17 February 2008 00:26)

Genc, You obviously know nothing about Macedonia or Serbia.

The Macedonians get 40% of their energy from Serbia, and alomst a quarter of all Macedonian exports go to Serbia. Cut off those things and what do you think will happen to Macedonia? And spare the argument that such an act by Serbia will hurt her more than Macedonia, because Serbia has recently developed a multi-Billion dollar trade agreement with Russia so they can afford to lose Macedonia but Macedonia cannot afford to lose Serbia.

Do you get it now?

shqarthi

pre 16 godina

George the Romanian,
thanks for your post..
I understand the Romanian position and hope things will get better for Romania and Moldova. Every people and every country should do what's best for their interests. I am sure European membership will help your country.
As for the Albanians of Kosovo, there is nothing less than Independence that they would have accepted. Even if they had accepted talks about autonomy(after what happened in 1998-1999 and the few years before that), then one must define autonomy in this case: Would they deal directly with EU for membership or since they are autonomous, they must go through Belgrade?
Do they deal directly with EU for the funds for undeveloped countries and regions of Europe, or again they must go through Belgrade?
What about NATO membership?
And many many of this type of issues. With Russia's veto looming on each of them and the need for "compromise".
Keeping in mind that Belgrade considers Albanians of Kosovo as terrorists (Kostunica's speach two days ago) and many Serbs view them as invaders.
This IS the best solution for the two peoples. We don't trust and don't like each other for now, so everybody on its own path for now. Starting with respect for minorities. Kosovo Serbs don't trust Albanians and I understand that and I understand that the guarantees that the Albanian side is giving them is not enough for them. It's one of the main reasons the European mission is coming, as a guarantee that the Serb minority will be respected. Belgrade can't do that, it can't physically reach all the Serbs in Kosovo.
Romania has other problems, whose solution is viewed by Romanians as conflicting with the solution of Kosovo. Any country should think for its own interests and that's normal. I hope the day comes for Romania, when its citizens and politicians won't have such pressing issues when dealing with foreign politics.

Mike,
6 months or 1 year is not enough time to see positive changes. 6 months is barely enough time to set up things and start them running. All eastern European countries have been struggling for much longer to see just a start of change. I agree with you that this puts much of the responsibility on the Albanian government and makes Kosovo dependent on other countries. But Kosovo has always been dependent on other countries, usually Serbia, and that didn't work well on Albanians. There's nothing to be ashamed of in being dependent for some time and asking for help from Europe and US. Especially when the alternative is known.

The Swiss

pre 16 godina

Bravo, this is called uniti and EU has proven one more time that they are unable to get their acts together!
The good news, tax payers, watch out your pockets, the donor conference is on the way, somehow this 'new country' has to be feeded!

Heka

pre 16 godina

Although I have been a long-time hopeful in EU's ability to become a force in international arena, I must admit that the EU is now experiencing the limits and costs of unanimous decision-making. This is natural if one taken into account the diversity of countries involved in terms of size, power, history, geography, etc. The limits of unanimity are true not only in Kosovo's case but in any decision. Can we hope that on certain issues decision making will move away from unanimity? Unfortunately not (at least I have lost hope).

Canadian

pre 16 godina

I think many will be surprised to hear on Monday that the list of 7 EU members not to recognize illegal Independence will be in fact 9.

I predict that we will learn that Bulgaria and Hungary will be on that list, the Bulgarians because of Russian Energy pressure and Hungary because of obvious reasons.

And don't count on Montenegro as a supporter, it would be political suicide for them.

So as far as trade is concerned the Albanians may only have Macedonia and that won't last too long either because if the Serb government decides to punish Macedonia through energy and trade cut off it will hurt them beyond recovery, thus that support may not last too long either.

jimmy

pre 16 godina

It does not matter if Russia,Romania,Greece,Spain do not
recognize Kosovo,remember
all it takes is the 800lbs gorilla in the room.U.S.A.We still run the world.What we say goes.

vujadin

pre 16 godina

"... tomorrow's declaration of independence will be more like a declaration of dependence on a few powerful countries."

nice...