Putin: Support for independece is immoral

"...all security forces parallel to theirs in Kosovo would be considered illegal."
So says Mr Ruecker of UNMIK.

Well, well. So it's not illegal to bomb a country relentlessly for 78 days; to occupy part of that country for 9 years; to encourage one ethnic group in the occupied part to secede; to trample on the UN Charter and other international treaties.

It makes my stomach churn when the likes of Mr Ruecker pontificate on what is legal. This is real Alice in Wonderful stuff, as in "words mean what I want them to mean".

Bravo Vlad! I love how he tells these ignorant, arrogant, and downright immoral beuarocrats in the EU, tells them to their face. We need more Vladimir Putin's in this world.

Ladies & Gentlemen
regarding Kosovo, it seems the show is over (for now).

Forget the world as we knew it,
peace. law and order is of no further use,
lets get back to your/our labs/factories and prepare the next killer weapon.

YOU CHOSE THAT WAY GENTLEMEN!!
Dont cry when things come the other way around (in about less than 30 years i predict)

Did anyone inform Thachi that Kosovo will never get seat in the UN and for that he has to thank his fellow European and American friends who will provide him some form of illegal independence in nearly only half territory. It seems to me that Thachi does not understand the meaning of law quite well. But everyone is entitled to hope, so is Thachi:)))). Thachi accept the reality on the ground and tell your people that there will be no UN seat for your state.

This has to be the most illegal thing on this planet: Even a bank robber has got more justifications!

Thachi, get a proper life, find yourself a job and become a Man!

I think that if Kosovo does receive a great deal of recognition from around the world, it should be allowed access to the United Nations. Thus far, even Taiwan has recognition from about 25 states, so in a way it is seen as the representative of China. I don't see why it should be a problem to accept Kosovo as a UN member. Though probably in the future, Palestine will demand the same and I don't see why the IC don't approve of them either. Such a pity that when Serbia does something wrong, everyone notices and acts, but no one does anything when Israel do the same. Double standards. While Kosovo and Palestine are unique in terms of situations and chain of events, they do not differ in any way in principle.

Of course the problem is Russia, while I somewhat agree with Russia's stance on the matter, I find that they are blowing it massively out of proportion, and with Putin's latest behaviour with regards to the Ukraine, Georgia and Poland, I only get the feeling Russia only has such a stance due to political fallout with the West, not like it really will cause this cataclysmic apocalypse that they always claim.

I can't really see how Russia will suffer from Kosovo recognition, as they have Chechnya under control (pro-Moscow government, majority population support due to Russian investment and infrastructure development and destruction of those Islamicist psychopaths in the South) and otherwise don't have problems in any of their Northern Caucasus republics.

The rest of the world? South Ossetia and Abkhazia are small regions that seceded violently from a non-agressive country, driving out the Georgian population, not the other way around as was with Kosovo. Nagorno-Karabakh, Northern Cyprus and Transnistria are the same, except replace Georgia with Azerbaijan, Cyprus and Moldova respectively. There are others such as Western Sahara and Somaliland. Naturally these are technical issues, but I doubt the international community will ever recognize these regions. Kosovo was subjected to a harsh regime from the dominant country and it was necessary for the international community to intervene, this indeed does make it "sui generis", despite my objections to it earlier regarding the core arguments of these regions. However, Palestine is, in principle, not different.

To conclude, I can't see a reason as to why Kosovo shouldn't join the UN, and I hope Russia will stop throwing their weight around politically and stop being anti-West just for the sake of being so. This is called abuse of power (though indeed the US has also been guilty of it, China as well), and it is no wonder that they are trying to reconfigure the UNSC to allow for permanent membership for Japan, Brazil, Germany and India and the Arab League/African State (most likely either Egypt, Nigeria or SOuth Africa), in order to eliminate the veto held by the current 5 members. If 2/3 of the general assembly vote this, it will pass, and rightfully so, it should be a democracy, not an authority like it is now.

If the majority of the wolrd recognize Kosovo and want them as members, Russia should respect their wishes.

Everything that Russia does is immoral. Alsways sided with rouge /criminal states. So, Mr. putin stop preaching to the world what moral and immoral.

Putin talking about morality. What a joke.

The spy of KGB is preaching morality !!
It reminds me the Aesop fables.

Peter Sudyka,
With all due respect, your facts are way off and you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Albanians in Kosovo were treated preferentially by Tito. Since WWII they have done nothing but mistreat the Serbs, intimidate them, and drive them out. It is a slow ethnic cleansing that has been going on for years and years, which you will not hear about on CNN. Their terrorist acts, killing civilians, postmen..whoever is a Serb basically, led to the crackdown when Milosevic sent in the security forces. The attrocities you hear about on here are lies and propoganda, pure and simple. The 'Racak Massacre' was a proven hoax, and there are many websites where you can explore this on your own. Ever since 1999 you have seen how albanians behave towards minorities, how xenophobic a society it is and how they treat ancient UNESCO heritage sites and churches. The proof is there before your eyes on who is tolerant and who is not. Who is the victim and who is the aggressor, is quite obvious when you look at the fact, not look at lies and propoganda. Look at the ghettos that still exist in Europe today, yes Ghettos - Serbs living behind barbed wire, needing military escorts to buy food. And then look at the numerous minorities living in Serbia who are treated with full equality, including thousands of albanians.
And you have the gall to say 'I can't see a reason as to why Kosovo shouldn't join the UN'. Well I can, because of basic morality, justice, ethics, and law.

I also love it when Putin just slams it in EU beaurocrat faces! Can someone tell me why america had to build a monster base in KiM if all along this was a humanitarion intervention?

Ratko,

You got it in one.
Camp Bondsteel is really what this is all about. In other words it about NATO/American strategic interests in the Balkans. The Yanks saw an opportunity to plant themselves at the heart of the region and so terrorists became allies and to keep everyone happy Halliburton got a contract to build a huge military base.

Everyone happy? Well, not really.....

To Peter
Have you made up your mind on the Kosovo issue?It seems to me that you flirt with the idea of illegality and you question Russiasattitude on the matter.The issue here
peter is the primacy of the UN as a world body and the adherance to its charter by its members.The Rusians are
concerned by the fact that the US is bypassing the authority of the UN in order to succeed in their geopolitical games.The war and devastation of Iraq,as you know,had nothing to do with democracy in Iraq or the weapons of mass destruction but rather with US companies greed for profits.The situation in kosovo is connected with the
US drive in the balkans and east Europe to reduce Russias influence in Europe
and to create sattelite regimes which can dance to their tune at their time of
choosing.
Thaci made a statement that the Kosovo issue has left the UN doors already but he should also know that the same doors will remain closed for the forseeable future.

Ahmet Isufi, can you cite any rouge /criminal states that Putin has sided with recently?

@ OLF: it's obvious that you don't know that while Kostunica is a legimited state figure, Thaci should be in prison. So I can see big differences.

Princip, Kate, Peggy, bmrusila, and all the rest of Srbin brothers/sisters.

Whats the point in reasoning?
In stating sequences of logical sentences?
Of refering to resolutions?

Their plan was apparent in 1992, their plan is apparent now.

They made a nation of 10 Million people accepting the unacceptable.

My BosinanSerb wife asked me yesterday:
Aha, so are they trying to eliminate the entire Serb nation?
And she asked in such a natural way, like we say "want some more milk"?

Thats what they are up to.
ALL OF THEM.
No one should be excluded even
my poor country Greece.

But the Serb nation will prevail.
30-50 years is nothing compared to the 500 Serbs had to wait until they kicked away the turks.

In 30-50 yrs time, all the west will be talking about the Great Nation : Serbs, and changing their history books.

One thing i pray, for US not to change OUR history books

Putin is speaking as a street man- his language is not deigned for a President of a great country.

I just can’t imagine where he gets the guts to teach moral to the consolidated democracies.

About his moral and double moral standards- one can see how much Chechnya is covered by media, International Red Cross, and other humanitarian and international organizations/institutions.

Mr Putin you can see this or ignore it- just as you do with Chechnya, but surely we are not gonna accept lectures of moral from you.

Tom,

I was also taken by that very same notion of Ruckers;

"He said that UNMIK was prepared for every scenario and that all security forces parallel to theirs in Kosovo would be considered illegal.

“That is our red line, and we have said this many times,” the UNMIK chief said. "

- in which case is he stating he will infact be blocking the parallel security and judicial forces numbering 2000 that the EU are illegaly implementing?

The UNMIK operations need to nullify the illegal declaration that is their duty and equally need to like Rucker said stop the implementation of illegal parallel forces such as the EU! Now that will be a strange scenaio when the UNMIK if they really mean what they say stop the EU from acting illegally!

Oh what a tangled web we weave ...

"Kosovo Prime Minister Hashim Thaci says Kosovo’s goal is to become a member of the United Nations."

How Thaci must wish Russia and China are not on the UNSC!

I predict that in the end Pristina will have to ask Belgrade for talks again. Not immediately after udi of course, but in due time. At the end of the day, no state can deny that it does ultimately seek UN recognition. Thaci was honest enough about that.

Didn't I menion, my buddy and myself declared the Independent Republic of Atamania? We have all reasons to be optimistic:

1) Unlike Kosovo, our Republic spreads over several continents.

2) We mailed our Intent of Declaration of Independence to Russia - and they did not wrote us anything about veto.

3) Or government is very stabile. Both of us have wives. Our wives told us, what they do is called democracy and liberalism :(

KASTRIOTI
You say: "Anywhere where you have a sizeable minority that has been violated in a large scale it would only be right to adjust the International Law to protect them."

So, "adjusting" international law in Kosovo meant the bombing of Serbia and partition of the country because the minority had been "violated". I see.

So tell me, where were the NATO jets and the cluster bombs when the Catholic minority in Northern Ireland were being "violated" by the British army. Oh, the answer is there.... it was the BRITISH army. So that's ok then. Because they're one of the good guys. We can't have NATO bombing one of its own, can we?

I could also ask where are the NATO jets when another minority is being violated in Darfur? But that's another story......isn't it?

Like hell it is.

Mr Thaci. That is not so hard. Just ask nicely and maybe Russia will grant you membership in the UN. Then again, maybe not :-)

Great post Peter, worthy of a nomination.
Way to go Peter Sudyka.

From Toni, Holland

ABOUT IMMORALITY, INDEPENDENCE AND INTEGRATION

Not a single country in Europe (including Russia) can claim a moral past. We all were invaders and conquerors and we all were invaded and were conquered and suffered at the hands of our very own neighbours!! So Vladimir Putin can claim morality to the same extend as can Angela Merkel or any other president or prime minister in Europe

The problem of Serbia, Croatia and Muslims in the former republic of Yugoslavia is they all shed blood in recent times and victimized many innocent citizens who happened to live on the “wrong” place!! And, yes, the Serbs were the last ( but not the only ones) to commit these terrible acts in Kosovo province. These events shocked the world and are still on the minds of many people.

Today we have a UN Charter as our only supranational and international legal guideline. This charter respects and acknowledges the territorial integrity of all nations. I fail to understand why Kosovo should be an exception. Why should it become independent and be allowed to secede from Serbia whose current borders are already set for more than 100 years, that is including Kosovo. This was long before the UN Charter was accepted by the world community!! The only power really pushing for this is the USA. The EU is a follower in this case, unwilling or maybe unable to act on its own behalf.

It is difficult to comprehend why the EU acts so weak especially in the light of the problems we face nowadays with the integration of immigrants of Muslim descent into the European communities. It looks as if many, but not all, Muslim people have a problem with integration. Why so?

The explanation maybe that they are unfamiliar with the concept of separation of church and nation, which was created during the process of Enlightenment in the 17th/18th century covering entire Europe and including Russia. This drives them everywhere into a search for autonomy: in Kosovo, in Chechnya, in the South of Thailand, in the South of the Philippines, in the North of India and in parts of Africa as well. Just to name a few examples.

This very week Prime Minister Erdogan of Turkey managed to advice the Turks in Germany to integrate, but not to assimilate …”assimilation is a CRIME” he said. He has absolutely startled the German government with his remarks. And also this very week the Moroccan minister Mohammed Ameur suggested to all Moroccans (with European passports!!) living in Europe to consider themselves as the 17th province of Morocco. These remarks do not help integration at all and are confusing to many Muslim people living in Europe. Either you live with the Europeans in the European way or, if you can’t, you always have the option to leave.

It is time for Europe to stop this arrogance; there is a real and fundamental unwillingness to integrate. We have to stick to our rules and our culture. Therefore I support RUSSIA, therefore I support SERBIA and therefore I support SPAIN

reading those comments, I get the impression as if most of the writers here really believe that there will change anything at all after a socalled "declaration"...

don´t fool yourself, guys.

with UNSC 1244 in effect, it´s only a question of time.

and dreaming of UN-membership only shows which level of illusion some have already reached...

I wonder how it is partying without electricity...

let´s see what future brings!

(Peter Sudyka, 14 February 2008 13:48)
Peter
This is a well informed and well thought post. It has an expert quality in it. This is what I would expect honest experts of International Law to teach (if they weren't so corrupted by the nonsense details). This material is a healthy bases for a book that could be a bestseller (because of its moral integrity and consideration for humanity).
I agree that some places in the world deserved the attention of International Community. I am still hopeful. I know for sure that Tibet deserves attention.
In addition, the implicit assumptions in your post are reaching out to inform people (who unfortunately are manipulated and not free enough to be informed on their own) that you can not equal a violation of a trafic light with murder. Same thing with comparing Kosova to milion other places it is not the same.
I would like to add one thing to your post, I am sure that you agree with me on this the following(if not I apologize in advance for taking the liberty to impose my ideas on you). Laws are not carved in stone. They are made by people to adjust to human needs. In the case of Kosova, changing the International Law would only do it a favor. It will make UN more capable to aid the nurture of human rights. So, if a Law has failed to protect basic human rights such as it was in Kosova, of course it would be progressive to change it. Same goes anywhere in the world. Anywhere where you have a sizeable minority that has been violated in a large scale it would only be right to adjust the International Law to protect them. Laws should have a main attempt to preserve peace and human rights. The last quality that Laws should have is to be used to restrict freedom seeking nations who deserve to be free.
Very nice and thoughtful post.

Leonidas

I agree with what you are saying regarding international law and the UNSC, though I cannot say I honestly believe Russia's stance is one of trying to uphold international law, it is purely political, I think. Why do I say this?

1) It is a simple case of the West being on Kosovo's side and Russia being on Serbia's, this is why I don't think the blocking at the UNSC is motivated by pure belief in the real threat of separatism, rather just East vs. West politics, in which Serbia and Kosovo are just pawns, yet it does not seem like their people are taken into account.

2) Territorial integrity of areas in Russia's sphere of influence. Looking closely at the history and chain of events leading up to the secession of Kosovo and the Soviet breakaway republics and actually comparing them shows only minor similarities, but the fundamentals are different. Kosovo can only be compared to Palestine and arguably Tibet, not the others. My point? Russia's argument here is weak (I once thought otherwise, but I took the time to research and have come to another conclusion).

Now I know well that the US often bypasses the UNSC in chasing after their own interests (I refuse to believe that
the US are the "good guys" in this US-Russia fight for global domination), but I cannot say here that I believe Russia's intentions tie in with anything other than their own political interests and saving face (look at their behaviour towards Georgia, Ukraine, Poland and Czech Republic).

One more thing: I was born in communist Poland, I know very well how Russia views international law. KASTRIOTI makes a good point when he says sometimes the law needs to be bent in order to take into account human rights, which Russia's veto is not helping in any way.

Kosovo independence is probably illegal. But, after all killings, rapings, robberies that K-Albanian civilians went through, they have ABSOLUTE MORAL RIGHT to get what they want:
independence from Serbia.

Mark,
Please dont talk to me about Bosnia.
Red Cross numbers say
an equal proportion of victims from all sides, with the serbs figure (as is natural) a little bigger, since they had to fight alone (2m ppl) against

a) USA
b) NATO
c) EU
d) The ARAB World

!!!!!!!!!!!!

And yet they managed to have their Rep Srpska, FOR WHICH WE ARE ALL PROUD!!!!!

Yet, your papers/leaders talked about 100,000 dead,
20,000 raped women, etc...

It seems that the Serbs make stronger nations look stupid throughout history!

Russia has a nasty history of going to war with whoever it wants, as well as killing it's own citizens. Russia just killed people in Moldovia for a piece of corrupt Transnistria. You have just threatened Ukraine with war for NATO membership.

High time for a reality check boy!

But the Serb nation will prevail.
30-50 years is nothing compared to the 500 Serbs had to wait until they kicked away the turks.

In 30-50 yrs time, all the west will be talking about the Great Nation : Serbs, and changing their history books.

One thing i pray, for US not to change OUR history books
(Pyrros, 14 February 2008 20:36)

everyone is out to get the serbs in your opinion but you never acknowledge the evil deeds committed by these same serbs. i'm sorry to have to inform you but you simply cannot have it both ways. if innocent serbs suffer from the outcome of the 90's, they have only themselves to blame for electing criminals as leaders. keep in mind how many innocent people suffered at their hands in the 90's that aren't around today to cry out and have their voices heard. go around bosnia & kosove and count the tombstones or visit the woman who have no idea about the whereabouts of their children. after you do those things, come back here and talk to me about serbian morality, faith and how they're the victim.

(Tom O'Donoghue, 15 February 2008 00:27)

I am talking about Kosova because I was born there and I know what serbs did there. I am not an expert on other areas in the world. I am sure that there is people who are. They should speak up. Two wrongs do not make a right. Only because nothing was done in Darfur (I feel for these people but it is not im my power to decide if NATO should go there)it does not mean that GOOD should not be done in Kosova case. Kosova deserves independence, this I know with certainty. Happy 17 of February.

To those that laugh at Thaci.
All I can say is that Thaci is no different form Kostunica AK47, KGB Putin. They all have one thing in common, they are all prime ministers, that’s it. If you need more in this one I can give anytime.

Hi,
We will be celebrating with candles is more romantic.....
You gusy do not understand that Kosovo Albanian would agree to be 24 hours without electricity, or any other difficulties just to not go through what we went all those years...Wake up...you still have no idea what we went though..

Mark,
Please dont talk to me about Bosnia.
Red Cross numbers say
an equal proportion of victims from all sides, with the serbs figure (as is natural) a little bigger, since they had to fight alone (2m ppl) against

a) USA
b) NATO
c) EU
d) The ARAB World

!!!…!!

And yet they managed to have their Rep Srpska, FOR WHICH WE ARE ALL PROUD!!!!!

Yet, your papers/leaders talked about 100,000 dead,
20,000 raped women, etc...

It seems that the Serbs make stronger nations look stupid throughout history!
(Pyrros, 15 February 2008 10:13)

being married to a bosnian serb does not make you a historian on the war in bosnia but what it does make you is partial and based on your posts, i'd say that's a very accurate assessment.
outside from the nationalists here.

Who cares for what are you saying?

Everything that Russia does is immoral. Alsways sided with rouge /criminal states. So, Mr. putin stop preaching to the world what moral and immoral.

Putin talking about morality. What a joke.

The spy of KGB is preaching morality !!
It reminds me the Aesop fables.

Kosovo independence is probably illegal. But, after all killings, rapings, robberies that K-Albanian civilians went through, they have ABSOLUTE MORAL RIGHT to get what they want:
independence from Serbia.

I think that if Kosovo does receive a great deal of recognition from around the world, it should be allowed access to the United Nations. Thus far, even Taiwan has recognition from about 25 states, so in a way it is seen as the representative of China. I don't see why it should be a problem to accept Kosovo as a UN member. Though probably in the future, Palestine will demand the same and I don't see why the IC don't approve of them either. Such a pity that when Serbia does something wrong, everyone notices and acts, but no one does anything when Israel do the same. Double standards. While Kosovo and Palestine are unique in terms of situations and chain of events, they do not differ in any way in principle.

Of course the problem is Russia, while I somewhat agree with Russia's stance on the matter, I find that they are blowing it massively out of proportion, and with Putin's latest behaviour with regards to the Ukraine, Georgia and Poland, I only get the feeling Russia only has such a stance due to political fallout with the West, not like it really will cause this cataclysmic apocalypse that they always claim.

I can't really see how Russia will suffer from Kosovo recognition, as they have Chechnya under control (pro-Moscow government, majority population support due to Russian investment and infrastructure development and destruction of those Islamicist psychopaths in the South) and otherwise don't have problems in any of their Northern Caucasus republics.

The rest of the world? South Ossetia and Abkhazia are small regions that seceded violently from a non-agressive country, driving out the Georgian population, not the other way around as was with Kosovo. Nagorno-Karabakh, Northern Cyprus and Transnistria are the same, except replace Georgia with Azerbaijan, Cyprus and Moldova respectively. There are others such as Western Sahara and Somaliland. Naturally these are technical issues, but I doubt the international community will ever recognize these regions. Kosovo was subjected to a harsh regime from the dominant country and it was necessary for the international community to intervene, this indeed does make it "sui generis", despite my objections to it earlier regarding the core arguments of these regions. However, Palestine is, in principle, not different.

To conclude, I can't see a reason as to why Kosovo shouldn't join the UN, and I hope Russia will stop throwing their weight around politically and stop being anti-West just for the sake of being so. This is called abuse of power (though indeed the US has also been guilty of it, China as well), and it is no wonder that they are trying to reconfigure the UNSC to allow for permanent membership for Japan, Brazil, Germany and India and the Arab League/African State (most likely either Egypt, Nigeria or SOuth Africa), in order to eliminate the veto held by the current 5 members. If 2/3 of the general assembly vote this, it will pass, and rightfully so, it should be a democracy, not an authority like it is now.

If the majority of the wolrd recognize Kosovo and want them as members, Russia should respect their wishes.

Great post Peter, worthy of a nomination.
Way to go Peter Sudyka.

To those that laugh at Thaci.
All I can say is that Thaci is no different form Kostunica AK47, KGB Putin. They all have one thing in common, they are all prime ministers, that’s it. If you need more in this one I can give anytime.

Putin is speaking as a street man- his language is not deigned for a President of a great country.

I just can’t imagine where he gets the guts to teach moral to the consolidated democracies.

About his moral and double moral standards- one can see how much Chechnya is covered by media, International Red Cross, and other humanitarian and international organizations/institutions.

Mr Putin you can see this or ignore it- just as you do with Chechnya, but surely we are not gonna accept lectures of moral from you.

Hi,
We will be celebrating with candles is more romantic.....
You gusy do not understand that Kosovo Albanian would agree to be 24 hours without electricity, or any other difficulties just to not go through what we went all those years...Wake up...you still have no idea what we went though..

But the Serb nation will prevail.
30-50 years is nothing compared to the 500 Serbs had to wait until they kicked away the turks.

In 30-50 yrs time, all the west will be talking about the Great Nation : Serbs, and changing their history books.

One thing i pray, for US not to change OUR history books
(Pyrros, 14 February 2008 20:36)

everyone is out to get the serbs in your opinion but you never acknowledge the evil deeds committed by these same serbs. i'm sorry to have to inform you but you simply cannot have it both ways. if innocent serbs suffer from the outcome of the 90's, they have only themselves to blame for electing criminals as leaders. keep in mind how many innocent people suffered at their hands in the 90's that aren't around today to cry out and have their voices heard. go around bosnia & kosove and count the tombstones or visit the woman who have no idea about the whereabouts of their children. after you do those things, come back here and talk to me about serbian morality, faith and how they're the victim.

Russia has a nasty history of going to war with whoever it wants, as well as killing it's own citizens. Russia just killed people in Moldovia for a piece of corrupt Transnistria. You have just threatened Ukraine with war for NATO membership.

High time for a reality check boy!

(Peter Sudyka, 14 February 2008 13:48)
Peter
This is a well informed and well thought post. It has an expert quality in it. This is what I would expect honest experts of International Law to teach (if they weren't so corrupted by the nonsense details). This material is a healthy bases for a book that could be a bestseller (because of its moral integrity and consideration for humanity).
I agree that some places in the world deserved the attention of International Community. I am still hopeful. I know for sure that Tibet deserves attention.
In addition, the implicit assumptions in your post are reaching out to inform people (who unfortunately are manipulated and not free enough to be informed on their own) that you can not equal a violation of a trafic light with murder. Same thing with comparing Kosova to milion other places it is not the same.
I would like to add one thing to your post, I am sure that you agree with me on this the following(if not I apologize in advance for taking the liberty to impose my ideas on you). Laws are not carved in stone. They are made by people to adjust to human needs. In the case of Kosova, changing the International Law would only do it a favor. It will make UN more capable to aid the nurture of human rights. So, if a Law has failed to protect basic human rights such as it was in Kosova, of course it would be progressive to change it. Same goes anywhere in the world. Anywhere where you have a sizeable minority that has been violated in a large scale it would only be right to adjust the International Law to protect them. Laws should have a main attempt to preserve peace and human rights. The last quality that Laws should have is to be used to restrict freedom seeking nations who deserve to be free.
Very nice and thoughtful post.

Mark,
Please dont talk to me about Bosnia.
Red Cross numbers say
an equal proportion of victims from all sides, with the serbs figure (as is natural) a little bigger, since they had to fight alone (2m ppl) against

a) USA
b) NATO
c) EU
d) The ARAB World

!!!…!!

And yet they managed to have their Rep Srpska, FOR WHICH WE ARE ALL PROUD!!!!!

Yet, your papers/leaders talked about 100,000 dead,
20,000 raped women, etc...

It seems that the Serbs make stronger nations look stupid throughout history!
(Pyrros, 15 February 2008 10:13)

being married to a bosnian serb does not make you a historian on the war in bosnia but what it does make you is partial and based on your posts, i'd say that's a very accurate assessment.
outside from the nationalists here.

This has to be the most illegal thing on this planet: Even a bank robber has got more justifications!

Thachi, get a proper life, find yourself a job and become a Man!

Bravo Vlad! I love how he tells these ignorant, arrogant, and downright immoral beuarocrats in the EU, tells them to their face. We need more Vladimir Putin's in this world.

"...all security forces parallel to theirs in Kosovo would be considered illegal."
So says Mr Ruecker of UNMIK.

Well, well. So it's not illegal to bomb a country relentlessly for 78 days; to occupy part of that country for 9 years; to encourage one ethnic group in the occupied part to secede; to trample on the UN Charter and other international treaties.

It makes my stomach churn when the likes of Mr Ruecker pontificate on what is legal. This is real Alice in Wonderful stuff, as in "words mean what I want them to mean".

I also love it when Putin just slams it in EU beaurocrat faces! Can someone tell me why america had to build a monster base in KiM if all along this was a humanitarion intervention?

@ OLF: it's obvious that you don't know that while Kostunica is a legimited state figure, Thaci should be in prison. So I can see big differences.

Peter Sudyka,
With all due respect, your facts are way off and you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Albanians in Kosovo were treated preferentially by Tito. Since WWII they have done nothing but mistreat the Serbs, intimidate them, and drive them out. It is a slow ethnic cleansing that has been going on for years and years, which you will not hear about on CNN. Their terrorist acts, killing civilians, postmen..whoever is a Serb basically, led to the crackdown when Milosevic sent in the security forces. The attrocities you hear about on here are lies and propoganda, pure and simple. The 'Racak Massacre' was a proven hoax, and there are many websites where you can explore this on your own. Ever since 1999 you have seen how albanians behave towards minorities, how xenophobic a society it is and how they treat ancient UNESCO heritage sites and churches. The proof is there before your eyes on who is tolerant and who is not. Who is the victim and who is the aggressor, is quite obvious when you look at the fact, not look at lies and propoganda. Look at the ghettos that still exist in Europe today, yes Ghettos - Serbs living behind barbed wire, needing military escorts to buy food. And then look at the numerous minorities living in Serbia who are treated with full equality, including thousands of albanians.
And you have the gall to say 'I can't see a reason as to why Kosovo shouldn't join the UN'. Well I can, because of basic morality, justice, ethics, and law.

Princip, Kate, Peggy, bmrusila, and all the rest of Srbin brothers/sisters.

Whats the point in reasoning?
In stating sequences of logical sentences?
Of refering to resolutions?

Their plan was apparent in 1992, their plan is apparent now.

They made a nation of 10 Million people accepting the unacceptable.

My BosinanSerb wife asked me yesterday:
Aha, so are they trying to eliminate the entire Serb nation?
And she asked in such a natural way, like we say "want some more milk"?

Thats what they are up to.
ALL OF THEM.
No one should be excluded even
my poor country Greece.

But the Serb nation will prevail.
30-50 years is nothing compared to the 500 Serbs had to wait until they kicked away the turks.

In 30-50 yrs time, all the west will be talking about the Great Nation : Serbs, and changing their history books.

One thing i pray, for US not to change OUR history books

(Tom O'Donoghue, 15 February 2008 00:27)

I am talking about Kosova because I was born there and I know what serbs did there. I am not an expert on other areas in the world. I am sure that there is people who are. They should speak up. Two wrongs do not make a right. Only because nothing was done in Darfur (I feel for these people but it is not im my power to decide if NATO should go there)it does not mean that GOOD should not be done in Kosova case. Kosova deserves independence, this I know with certainty. Happy 17 of February.

Who cares for what are you saying?

Did anyone inform Thachi that Kosovo will never get seat in the UN and for that he has to thank his fellow European and American friends who will provide him some form of illegal independence in nearly only half territory. It seems to me that Thachi does not understand the meaning of law quite well. But everyone is entitled to hope, so is Thachi:)))). Thachi accept the reality on the ground and tell your people that there will be no UN seat for your state.

Ladies & Gentlemen
regarding Kosovo, it seems the show is over (for now).

Forget the world as we knew it,
peace. law and order is of no further use,
lets get back to your/our labs/factories and prepare the next killer weapon.

YOU CHOSE THAT WAY GENTLEMEN!!
Dont cry when things come the other way around (in about less than 30 years i predict)

To Peter
Have you made up your mind on the Kosovo issue?It seems to me that you flirt with the idea of illegality and you question Russiasattitude on the matter.The issue here
peter is the primacy of the UN as a world body and the adherance to its charter by its members.The Rusians are
concerned by the fact that the US is bypassing the authority of the UN in order to succeed in their geopolitical games.The war and devastation of Iraq,as you know,had nothing to do with democracy in Iraq or the weapons of mass destruction but rather with US companies greed for profits.The situation in kosovo is connected with the
US drive in the balkans and east Europe to reduce Russias influence in Europe
and to create sattelite regimes which can dance to their tune at their time of
choosing.
Thaci made a statement that the Kosovo issue has left the UN doors already but he should also know that the same doors will remain closed for the forseeable future.

reading those comments, I get the impression as if most of the writers here really believe that there will change anything at all after a socalled "declaration"...

don´t fool yourself, guys.

with UNSC 1244 in effect, it´s only a question of time.

and dreaming of UN-membership only shows which level of illusion some have already reached...

I wonder how it is partying without electricity...

let´s see what future brings!

Leonidas

I agree with what you are saying regarding international law and the UNSC, though I cannot say I honestly believe Russia's stance is one of trying to uphold international law, it is purely political, I think. Why do I say this?

1) It is a simple case of the West being on Kosovo's side and Russia being on Serbia's, this is why I don't think the blocking at the UNSC is motivated by pure belief in the real threat of separatism, rather just East vs. West politics, in which Serbia and Kosovo are just pawns, yet it does not seem like their people are taken into account.

2) Territorial integrity of areas in Russia's sphere of influence. Looking closely at the history and chain of events leading up to the secession of Kosovo and the Soviet breakaway republics and actually comparing them shows only minor similarities, but the fundamentals are different. Kosovo can only be compared to Palestine and arguably Tibet, not the others. My point? Russia's argument here is weak (I once thought otherwise, but I took the time to research and have come to another conclusion).

Now I know well that the US often bypasses the UNSC in chasing after their own interests (I refuse to believe that
the US are the "good guys" in this US-Russia fight for global domination), but I cannot say here that I believe Russia's intentions tie in with anything other than their own political interests and saving face (look at their behaviour towards Georgia, Ukraine, Poland and Czech Republic).

One more thing: I was born in communist Poland, I know very well how Russia views international law. KASTRIOTI makes a good point when he says sometimes the law needs to be bent in order to take into account human rights, which Russia's veto is not helping in any way.

"Kosovo Prime Minister Hashim Thaci says Kosovo’s goal is to become a member of the United Nations."

How Thaci must wish Russia and China are not on the UNSC!

I predict that in the end Pristina will have to ask Belgrade for talks again. Not immediately after udi of course, but in due time. At the end of the day, no state can deny that it does ultimately seek UN recognition. Thaci was honest enough about that.

Didn't I menion, my buddy and myself declared the Independent Republic of Atamania? We have all reasons to be optimistic:

1) Unlike Kosovo, our Republic spreads over several continents.

2) We mailed our Intent of Declaration of Independence to Russia - and they did not wrote us anything about veto.

3) Or government is very stabile. Both of us have wives. Our wives told us, what they do is called democracy and liberalism :(

Mr Thaci. That is not so hard. Just ask nicely and maybe Russia will grant you membership in the UN. Then again, maybe not :-)

Ahmet Isufi, can you cite any rouge /criminal states that Putin has sided with recently?

Ratko,

You got it in one.
Camp Bondsteel is really what this is all about. In other words it about NATO/American strategic interests in the Balkans. The Yanks saw an opportunity to plant themselves at the heart of the region and so terrorists became allies and to keep everyone happy Halliburton got a contract to build a huge military base.

Everyone happy? Well, not really.....

Tom,

I was also taken by that very same notion of Ruckers;

"He said that UNMIK was prepared for every scenario and that all security forces parallel to theirs in Kosovo would be considered illegal.

“That is our red line, and we have said this many times,” the UNMIK chief said. "

- in which case is he stating he will infact be blocking the parallel security and judicial forces numbering 2000 that the EU are illegaly implementing?

The UNMIK operations need to nullify the illegal declaration that is their duty and equally need to like Rucker said stop the implementation of illegal parallel forces such as the EU! Now that will be a strange scenaio when the UNMIK if they really mean what they say stop the EU from acting illegally!

Oh what a tangled web we weave ...

KASTRIOTI
You say: "Anywhere where you have a sizeable minority that has been violated in a large scale it would only be right to adjust the International Law to protect them."

So, "adjusting" international law in Kosovo meant the bombing of Serbia and partition of the country because the minority had been "violated". I see.

So tell me, where were the NATO jets and the cluster bombs when the Catholic minority in Northern Ireland were being "violated" by the British army. Oh, the answer is there.... it was the BRITISH army. So that's ok then. Because they're one of the good guys. We can't have NATO bombing one of its own, can we?

I could also ask where are the NATO jets when another minority is being violated in Darfur? But that's another story......isn't it?

Like hell it is.

Mark,
Please dont talk to me about Bosnia.
Red Cross numbers say
an equal proportion of victims from all sides, with the serbs figure (as is natural) a little bigger, since they had to fight alone (2m ppl) against

a) USA
b) NATO
c) EU
d) The ARAB World

!!!!!!!!!!!!

And yet they managed to have their Rep Srpska, FOR WHICH WE ARE ALL PROUD!!!!!

Yet, your papers/leaders talked about 100,000 dead,
20,000 raped women, etc...

It seems that the Serbs make stronger nations look stupid throughout history!

From Toni, Holland

ABOUT IMMORALITY, INDEPENDENCE AND INTEGRATION

Not a single country in Europe (including Russia) can claim a moral past. We all were invaders and conquerors and we all were invaded and were conquered and suffered at the hands of our very own neighbours!! So Vladimir Putin can claim morality to the same extend as can Angela Merkel or any other president or prime minister in Europe

The problem of Serbia, Croatia and Muslims in the former republic of Yugoslavia is they all shed blood in recent times and victimized many innocent citizens who happened to live on the “wrong” place!! And, yes, the Serbs were the last ( but not the only ones) to commit these terrible acts in Kosovo province. These events shocked the world and are still on the minds of many people.

Today we have a UN Charter as our only supranational and international legal guideline. This charter respects and acknowledges the territorial integrity of all nations. I fail to understand why Kosovo should be an exception. Why should it become independent and be allowed to secede from Serbia whose current borders are already set for more than 100 years, that is including Kosovo. This was long before the UN Charter was accepted by the world community!! The only power really pushing for this is the USA. The EU is a follower in this case, unwilling or maybe unable to act on its own behalf.

It is difficult to comprehend why the EU acts so weak especially in the light of the problems we face nowadays with the integration of immigrants of Muslim descent into the European communities. It looks as if many, but not all, Muslim people have a problem with integration. Why so?

The explanation maybe that they are unfamiliar with the concept of separation of church and nation, which was created during the process of Enlightenment in the 17th/18th century covering entire Europe and including Russia. This drives them everywhere into a search for autonomy: in Kosovo, in Chechnya, in the South of Thailand, in the South of the Philippines, in the North of India and in parts of Africa as well. Just to name a few examples.

This very week Prime Minister Erdogan of Turkey managed to advice the Turks in Germany to integrate, but not to assimilate …”assimilation is a CRIME” he said. He has absolutely startled the German government with his remarks. And also this very week the Moroccan minister Mohammed Ameur suggested to all Moroccans (with European passports!!) living in Europe to consider themselves as the 17th province of Morocco. These remarks do not help integration at all and are confusing to many Muslim people living in Europe. Either you live with the Europeans in the European way or, if you can’t, you always have the option to leave.

It is time for Europe to stop this arrogance; there is a real and fundamental unwillingness to integrate. We have to stick to our rules and our culture. Therefore I support RUSSIA, therefore I support SERBIA and therefore I support SPAIN